The Official Coach K for 2012 ACC COY Thread

[wgl1228]

I think its time we discussed coach of the year. I know great arguments can be made for Hamilton and Bennett but if Duke beats Wake and finishes out UNC I think you have to give it to him. Given the players we lost and in my opinion limitations of this team, it would be a pretty amazing thing to win the ACC. UNC is almost a pro team and to beat them twice would amazing. Additionally, I'm not knocking our team by saying we have limitations its just true. As has been discussed our D is a league worst. Our coach and team just have that will to win.

[cspan37421]

COY (both ACC and National) tends to go to a coach who has exceeded expectations significantly. Coach K has set such a high bar that it's very difficult for him to ever do this, no matter how well he leads our Blue Devils. Moreover, even though this team has overcome some "alarming" deficiencies - and, very recently, started to play pretty solid defense - they are ranked pretty close to where they were in the preseason. Before the year started, we didn't know how much we would have to overcome. Midway through the year we saw very significant challenges, and we're rising to meet them. Now that we're meeting them, we're starting to earn our way to our preseason expectations. In the end, I doubt many people will give Coach K credit for dramatically improving a team that had greater shortcomings than anyone realized. It's the expectations game.

Seems to me our defense has significantly strengthened post-UNC, but that hasn't exactly been against a murderer's row of opposition. Yes, FSU is really good, but if you believe Lunardi there's not a tournament team among the rest of them. Because of beating FSU in FL, I am cautiously optimistic our defensive improvement is genuine and not a function of our schedule. But there's quite a bit of caution there.

[cptnflash]

I totally agree. I think you can make a legitimate argument for NCOY, and conference COY would be a shoo-in if it was anyone else. Coach K probably won't win either award because he's being measured against his own record, but this year's team has totally overachieved, and it's because of him. This team isn't perfect from a personnel standpoint, but he's found ways to make it work nonetheless. Our point guard situation has been unsettled all year. We don't have a traditional small forward that is ready to play at this level. Our most talented player was also our least efficient player for the first half of the season. We appeared at times earlier in the season to have chemistry issues. And yet somehow, with a week to go in the regular season, the guys have totally come together, we're in control of our own destiny for the conference title, and we're in the conversation for a #1 seed in the NCAA tournament. He has done a truly amazing job this year.

[davekay1971]

If UVa had managed to pull out that win yesterday, with a depleted roster, I think Bennett would have it sewn up. With UVa fading some (granted, once again, injuries are a major factor there), I see the following legitimate candidates (not in any particular order):

1) Bennett - obvious reasons to be a candidate, not a lock due to some fading down the stretch

2) Gottfried - again, with State fading (4 ACC losses in a row) he's not as good a candidate as he was. State needed to hold out and beat us at Cameron to help out both their NCAA chances AND Gottfried's cause for COY. They seem to have really unravelled since that crushing loss, although they showed more fight yesterday than they did against FSU or UNC. Still, even if they win their last 2, at this point, they're on the outside looking in at the NCAAT, and Gottfried's probably 2nd tier for COY discussion

3) Hamilton - FSU has had their fair share of stinkers this season, but, with the notable exception of BC, that was mostly earlier. They're a defensive force and have developed enough offense to be a legitimate contender. He's really done a fantastic job with this team. All that being said, they were considered to be the probable number 3 team in the ACC with a chance to contend with Duke and UNC for the ACC regular season title...they really peaked in the week they killed UNC and escaped Cameron with a win...and now they're looking like the probable number 3 team in the ACC.

4) Coach K - As stated in the OP, K has done a phenomenal job with this team. Duke lost 2 senior leaders and a guy who would have, if he'd come back, be the best player in the ACC, to the NBA. We have no true point guard. We had, coming into the season, no go-to guy. We had no obvious on court leader. We had talent, but it was relatively inexperienced, with nobody who'd taken a leading role prior to this season. We had a phenomenal freshman talent who needed to learn how to maximize his gifts at the highest level for the team, rather than just score. Now we're in serious contention for the regular season title and an NCAAT 1 seed. And that freshman talent, for the last 3 weeks, has been one of the best players in the ACC...and looks to be the team leader. That's no accident - just ask Austin and Doc, who both point to K as the reason for Austin's tremendous growth.

So my vote goes to: (drum roll)

Jim Larranaga.

Coming into the season, Miami was supposed to be godawful. They sure looked like they'd be godawful at the beginning of the season. They were supposed to compete for the bottom 4 in the conference and be on the outside of the NIT looking in.

Now: Miami is 7-6. They're a tough day at the office for anyone. They've got Duke's scalp. Today they have FSU at home, and if they add FSU's scalp to their collection they're definitely on the inside of the bubble. And with a reeling NC State and then BC to close the season, they COULD end up as the 4 seed in the ACCT with a first round bye.

There's a lot of ifs there, starting with the FSU game today. Then, assuming NCSU doesn't completely collapse, the trip to Raleigh will be a tough win for the Canes. So Miami could finish the season anywhere from 10-6 to 8-8, in the NCAAT to out of it.

But, as of today, Larranaga has done a remarkable job with Miami. Hats off to him!

(Addendum: Coach K deserves about 3 times as many ACC COY awards as he has won. He's a victim of his own success. Duke starts each season with such high expectations, that winning the ACC regular season, ACCT, and getting a high NCAAT seed are just expected)

[miramar]

There's no question that the coach of the year tends to exceed expectations, so that's hard to do at Duke. But at the very least Coach K is currently tied in the standings with a guy who has four certain NBA first rounders,

http://nbadraft.net/2012mock_draft

and even a possible five:

http://www.mynbadraft.com/2012-NBA-Mock-Draft

While Duke has two possible first rounders on some of these mock drafts, one is listed because of his potential and the other is a freshman who is only beginning to find himself. Needless to say, I hope both players will return, but there is no doubt that ol' Roy has a huge talent advantage that Coach K has managed to negate.

[Albert]

With our much-noted crop of talented incoming coaches this year in the ACC, I would find it odd if Coach K were to take this particular palm.

Of course I agree that, even where he makes the biggest difference as a coach in the conference, sort of akin to an MVP standard, he generally won't be awarded COY. That said, FSU came around to meet expectations after an extremely uneven start. I think Bennett and Larranaga are good bets.

[Wander]

Can you have the coach of the team that finished last in the ACC win COY? I'm somewhat sorta half-serious.

[Sgt. Dingleberry]

Can you have the coach of the team that finished last in the ACC win COY? I'm somewhat sorta half-serious.

I've been reading this thread and I am stumped as to who I would vote for (If I had a vote). Your suggestion is as good as any. An award of some sort should be given to Donahue solely for the fact that he coached that team to a win over FSU. BC has to have the least amount of talent I can remember seeing in the ACC and they somehow do have 3 wins.

However, one thing is for sure. Ol Roy deserves no consideration, at all, for the award this year.

[oldnavy]

I do like the Larranaga vote but its too soon to decide IMO. Also, I have to say I really love what Ol Roy is doing with his team. ;)

[davekay1971]

I have to say I really love what Ol Roy is doing with his team. ;)

Doing with...or doing to? It's always hard to tell with Roy.

[cspan37421]

(Addendum: Coach K deserves about 3 times as many ACC COY awards as he has won. He's a victim of his own success. Duke starts each season with such high expectations, that winning the ACC regular season, ACCT, and getting a high NCAAT seed are just expected)

I totally agree and originally had that in my post, but hit the "back" button on the wrong tab, lost it, and forgot it! But mark me down for "he deserves many more." But it's the nature of the award - they want to reward those who exceed expectations, and that's just plain hard to do when you're fielding and coaching a top 10 team nearly every year.

[-jk]

Frankly, I suspect K prefers various Championship banners to COY awards.

-jk

[davekay1971]

jk - I'm sure you're right, but as fans we like to see our man's skillz recognized!

I just went back and looked at K's ACC COY years: 84, 86, 97, 99, 00.

Interesting. Four of the five years he won the award were years in which Duke's success (or the degree of their success) probably came as something of a surprise to the media. 84, 86, and 97 all involved significant improvements in ACC regular season record compared to the year before, while in 00 a fall-off was expected but didn't happen (16-0 in 99, 15-1 in 00). 99 we were supposed to be monsters and we were. I'd be interested to see the COY record of other coaches and don't have time to search for it now, but I suspect that trend holds up. Coaches don't get much credit for their role in building a successful team, they get credit for exceeding the expectations the media has for their team. That's understandable, but it probably minimizes the recognition of the importance of a coach in many parts of putting a successful team together - from recruiting to retention to building player's skills over the course of their college career.

Maybe we need to change the award to the ACC Coach Who's Team Most Surprised Us Media Types In A Good Way Award.

[-jk]

jk - I'm sure you're right, but as fans we like to see our man's skillz recognized!

I just went back and looked at K's ACC COY years: 84, 86, 97, 99, 00.

Interesting. Four of the five years he won the award were years in which Duke's success (or the degree of their success) probably came as something of a surprise to the media. 84, 86, and 97 all involved significant improvements in ACC regular season record compared to the year before, while in 00 a fall-off was expected but didn't happen (16-0 in 99, 15-1 in 00). 99 we were supposed to be monsters and we were. I'd be interested to see the COY record of other coaches and don't have time to search for it now, but I suspect that trend holds up. Coaches don't get much credit for their role in building a successful team, they get credit for exceeding the expectations the media has for their team. That's understandable, but it probably minimizes the recognition of the importance of a coach in many parts of putting a successful team together - from recruiting to retention to building player's skills over the course of their college career.

Maybe we need to change the award to the ACC Coach Who's Team Most Surprised Us Media Types In A Good Way Award.

Frankly, as a fan, I want to see Championship banners, too. That's "skillz" recognition enough for me.

-jk

[Edouble]

Frankly, as a fan, I want to see Championship banners, too. That's "skillz" recognition enough for me.

-jk

If they're handing out awards and our guys are deserving, we should get them.

[Duvall]

So my vote goes to: (drum roll)

Jim Larranaga.

Coming into the season, Miami was supposed to be godawful. They sure looked like they'd be godawful at the beginning of the season. They were supposed to compete for the bottom 4 in the conference and be on the outside of the NIT looking in.

I agree that Larranaga has done a fine job with Miami this season, but Miami was picked fifth in the preseason. (http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/101911aaa.html)


2011-12 ACC Preseason Predictions
ACC Operation Basketball, Charlotte, N.C.
59 Ballots
Team Finish:
1-North Carolina (57) 706
2-Duke (2) 649
3-Florida State 560
4-Virginia 463
5-Miami 455
6-Virginia Tech 411
7-Clemson 403
8-NC State 316
9-Maryland 264
10-Georgia Tech 176
11-Wake Forest 109
12-Boston College 90

Actually, if you compare the the current league standings (http://www.theacc.com/this-is/accstandings.html#mbb) to the preseason predictions, they look pretty much on, with one notable exception. (Honestly, it might make sense to split the award eleven ways and give a piece to every coach that isn't Seth Greenberg.)

There really isn't a team that dramatically overperformed expectations at any spot in the conference. Maybe that will free the ACC media to do something crazy this year like voting for the best coach.

[Sgt. Dingleberry]

(Honestly, it might make sense to split the award eleven ways and give a piece to every coach that isn't Seth Greenberg.)

I don't know if you saw it, but there was some fantastic schadenfreude yesterday during the broadcast. They showed a montage of Greenberg's reactions to all of the close losses VT has had this season. I can't lie, I thoroughly enjoyed it, I might have even let lose a chuckle or two...:rolleyes:

[Olympic Fan]

Duvall, I was going to post the same thing -- the idea that Miami was supposed to godawful is rdiculous. They returned a veteran backcourt and are one of the most athletic teams in the league. The feeling was that they had massively underachieved under Frank Haith and that a quality game coach and teacher like Larranaga could turn them around.

The only reason they were picked as low as fifth was the uncertainty due to Reggie Johnson's knee surgery. He was (and is) their ownly true post player. When he returned in mid-December, that allowed Kenny Kadji to move out of the post, where he was overmatched and move outside, where he became a matchup nightmare.

That's not to say I don't think Larranaga has done a bad job, but if you judge it on expectations -- he's got Miami right about where we expected them to be.

Now, I could still see him getting COY, if the 'Canes finish strong -- and that includes a victory today over Florida State.

I would lean to Bennett -- who has had to deal with late-season injuries (Sene was a killer and Harris' hand problems hurt badly). But he could easily end the year on a three-game ACC losing stfreak ... I don't think I'd vote for him if Virginia is 8-8.

I'm not sure who I would vote for. Bennett and Larranage are certainly in the mix. Gottfried was doing a very good job until his recent collapse. I like the job Turgeon was doing -- he's also have some devastating injuries -- but the loss to Georgia Tech Saturday hurt.

How about Brownell -- if he finishes .500 in the ACC with this bunch, I'd be impressed.

K, if he wins out, wow -- that would be hard to top.

I guess I'm saying there are a lot of guys who have done a good job this season.

PS Maybe the ACC should give its COY award to Frank Haith. We all thought he was a good recruiter, bad coach ... he's certainly doing a great job this year at Missouri.

[jv001]

If we beat unc and I think we will, I believe he wins COY. The heels were the clear choice to win the regular season and if we earn that distinction, I believe Coach K will be COY. Go Coach K and GoDuke!

[1 24 90]

If we beat unc and I think we will, I believe he wins COY. The heels were the clear choice to win the regular season and if we earn that distinction, I believe Coach K will be COY. Go Coach K and GoDuke!

I agree with your sentiment. Last year, Ol' Roy won ACC COY by defeating the preseason pick on his home court in the last game of the season to go 14-2 in the league and this year Coach K's team can do the exact same thing. I can't remember if unc was the preseason #2 pick last year or not. Granted, they had more rebuilding to do last year from 2010 than Duke has had this year but if Roy can still win COY with his talent, then Coach K should be able to win it too.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

If UNC wins out, why wouldn't 'old Roy be in the COY mix as much as coach K?

Roy's lost two starting players to injury and still might win the league outright. That's pretty impressive coaching.

[Duvall]

If UNC wins out, why wouldn't 'old Roy be in the COY mix as much as coach K?

Roy's lost two starting players to injury and still might win the league outright. That's pretty impressive coaching.

They weren't both going to start and neither was ever very good. Besides, the voters were unimpressed when Krzyzewski overcame losing the best player in college basketball to win the ACC championship last season, so we shouldn't expect Williams to get similar consideration for a lesser accomplishment.

[oldnavy]

If UNC wins out, why wouldn't 'old Roy be in the COY mix as much as coach K?

Roy's lost two starting players to injury and still might win the league outright. That's pretty impressive coaching.

What exactly has Roy done in coaching terms due to the loss of Strickland and McDonald? Did he change the style of play? Did he move a player out of their comfort zone to take on a different role?

Best I can tell is he inserted another McDonald's All American into the line up.

Not exactly awe inspiring COY stuff.

Not sure anyone outside of CH would think that Roy has done amazing things with a team of 4 first round NBA picks.

In fact most UNC fans I talk to are not very hopeful of a deep run in the NCAAT and think the team has underachieved.

I am not writing them off by any means but to think that what Roy has done this year is worthy of COY honors is a bit of a stretch IMO.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

What exactly has Roy done in coaching terms due to the loss of Strickland and McDonald? Did he change the style of play? Did he move a player out of their comfort zone to take on a different role?

Best I can tell is he inserted another McDonald's All American into the line up.

Not exactly awe inspiring COY stuff.

Not sure anyone outside of CH would think that Roy has done amazing things with a team of 4 first round NBA picks.

In fact most UNC fans I talk to are not very hopeful of a deep run in the NCAAT and think the team has underachieved.

I am not writing them off by any means but to think that what Roy has done this year is worthy of COY honors is a bit of a stretch IMO.

I don't think he's COY either, I'd vote for Bennett, just that he should be considered equally alongside any discussion with what coach K has done this season.

[oldnavy]

I don't think he's COY either, I'd vote for Bennett, just that he should be considered equally alongside any discussion with what coach K has done this season.

The only way I could see Coach K having a shot at COY is if he wins out including the ACCT. That may be enough to do it. I don't think Roy has a shot, because even if UNC does win out it would be as predicted.

I don't think that K or Roy will win it... not sure who will at this point, still a lot of important games to be played.....

[-bdbd]

If UNC wins out, why wouldn't 'old Roy be in the COY mix as much as coach K?

Roy's lost two starting players to injury and still might win the league outright. That's pretty impressive coaching.


Hard for the coach of the ACC-preseason-favorite to win the Coach of the Year, as we've seen so many times with K. It is just a matter of expectations being already too high, rightly or wrongly.

Last year K lost the best player on the team, around whom the strategy was all built, in early December, and still won the ACC... but no award - so losing a couple bench players doesn't sound like much of a comparative argument. I like Bennett, but UVA's late-season mini-slide could hamper that. I think K is a good candidate this year. NC State hasn't disappointed relative to preseason expectations either.

But in Roy's defense, he did at least manage to keep the FSU margin under 35....



:rolleyes:

[SCMatt33]

The only way I could see Coach K having a shot at COY is if he wins out including the ACCT.

I think awards are voted on for regular season only, though someone with definite knowledge should confirm or correct this for me. This is a pretty tricky year for that sort of thing. As of this moment (before the outcome of FSU-Miami is clear), the top 5 in the ACC are exactly as picked in the media poll, with the exception of Duke being tied 1st instead of 2nd. In fact, the only two team who is beating their preseason prediction by more than one spot right now are NC State (T-6, picked 8), so it's pretty wide open. I wouldn't discount Roy so fast since voters will sometimes just go with the winner when no one has stepped out too much. I can still see Hamilton getting it if FSU wins out which would tie them for 2nd and give them the 2 seed in the tourney when most thought that while they would be third, it would be a distant 3rd. Bennett is still in it, but UVA's slump down the stretch will hurt him, and if you can muster up the courage for a last place team, BC has been far from the complete and utter doormat that was expected, and if they can beat GTech at home, they will likely share the basement with the loser of GTech-Wake on the last day of the season. There's really no stand out candidate and I have a feeling that it will just go to the champion, whether it is K or Roy.

[CajunDevil]

There is no way, IMHO, that Roy will be COY, unless underachieving is the most important factor. Let's be serious, UNC was supposed to have the a "great" team as Jay Bilas repeated ad nauseam during the off-season and pre-season. A team with 4 first-rounders, and two stud McD's coming in... the table was set for a 2009-type of team. However, this team is currently 3rd in ACC... far from "great"

[COYS]

However, this team is currently 3rd in ACC... far from "great"

Well, they are tied for first, although if the ACC had head to head tie-breakers I guess they'd be second pending the rematch in Cameron. Like Coach K, Roy is a victim of his own success, as well. If they were to finish out the regular season with wins (I pray they have at least one other loss!), a 14-2 record in the ACC is very impressive, even for National Title contenders. I think the 2010 Duke team was better than both current editions of the Heels and Devils. And yet that team was still only 13-3 in conference. 14-2 is an accomplishment. And they are a Zeller own-goal away from being 13-1 currently. Honestly, the only reason their current ACC record isn't impressive is because Duke and FSU have kept things much closer than anticipated. But losing @FSU (rather embarrassingly) and at home to Duke on a buzzer beater definitely do not look like bad losses now.

That being said, I do think that Coach K deserves a bit more consideration. Duke was picked 2nd mostly because no one believed that FSU would actually take the next step and become a serious threat in the ACC. I think most people preseason would've expected Duke to have at least 12-4 or even 11-5 in the ACC, but that it might be good enough to capture second place. That Duke is ahead of an FSU squad with only three ACC losses is quite the accomplishment considering all the talent that left Durham after last season. Consider what happened at UNC in 2009-2010 after the Heels lost a ton of talent but were also bringing back talented players like Zeller, Ed Davis, and Drew, II in addition to a frosh class that included the highly touted Henson. Or consider what happened to Duke in 2007 after Redick and Williams departed. What Coach K has done this season should not be taken for granted as even he has not always been able to reload so incredibly effectively.

[CajunDevil]

ooops. My mistake. UNC is second not third...Still not great considering their supposed world-beater status.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Nevermind, can't get the link to work.

[brevity]

I've been thinking about the Coach of the Year recently, more in the national sense. I find myself unenthusiastic for John Calipari and Jim Boeheim -- for very different reasons -- and I think I see some of that lack of enthusiasm in this ACC-centered thread. (Even the pro-K crowd is cool and nonchalant about it.)

If the politics of COY is a function of breaking through nationally and/or exceeding expectations and/or having the best season, then there are a few viable candidates, like Buzz Williams at Marquette. But there's not really any slam-dunk choice. If Coach K is a victim of his own success, then maybe it couldn't hurt to root for K-adjacent head coaches like Mike Brey or Tommy Amaker.

Personally, I would vote for one of the two coaches that had the best offseason: Frank Haith of Missouri and Ed DeChellis of Navy, who had the luck/foresight/inside knowledge to leave a pair of sinking ship programs at Miami and Penn State. (The fact that Missouri is a top 5 team tends to make Haith the better choice. I have no idea how Navy is doing this season, and it kind of doesn't matter.)

[gus]

Roy Williams won last year right?

Coach K won '99, so "winning with a pre-season overwhelming favorite" isn't necessarily an automatic disqualification. He didn't win in '01 though -- and I thought that was masterful season.

[Duvall]

Roy Williams won last year right?

To be fair, Williams deserved the award for undoing the horrible damage done by UNC's coach the year before.

[jv001]

Hard for the coach of the ACC-preseason-favorite to win the Coach of the Year, as we've seen so many times with K. It is just a matter of expectations being already too high, rightly or wrongly.

Last year K lost the best player on the team, around whom the strategy was all built, in early December, and still won the ACC... but no award - so losing a couple bench players doesn't sound like much of a comparative argument. I like Bennett, but UVA's late-season mini-slide could hamper that. I think K is a good candidate this year. NC State hasn't disappointed relative to preseason expectations either.

But in Roy's defense, he did at least manage to keep the FSU margin under 35....



:rolleyes:

Yeh, and he got himself and the starters to the dressing room unharmed at FSU. Still don't know about the walk ons. GoDuke!

[mph]

To be fair, Williams deserved the award for undoing the horrible damage done by UNC's coach the year before.

Simply brilliant.

[davekay1971]

To be fair, Williams deserved the award for undoing the horrible damage done by UNC's coach the year before.

Wonderful post...but completely wrong.

Larry Drew 2(two/dos) deserves all the credit for undoing the horrible damage done by UNC's coach the year before.

[UrinalCake]

To be fair, Williams deserved the award for undoing the horrible damage done by UNC's coach the year before.

I was going to post the same thing. Expectations were low coming into the season only because he did such an awful job coaching the previous year. So there was a perception that he overachieved. He had as much talent in 2011 as anyone once Kyrie went down. I do give him credit for handling the Drew departure, the Wear departures, and the Bullock injury though.

[luvdahops]

What exactly has Roy done in coaching terms due to the loss of Strickland and McDonald? Did he change the style of play? Did he move a player out of their comfort zone to take on a different role?

Best I can tell is he inserted another McDonald's All American into the line up.

Not exactly awe inspiring COY stuff.

Not sure anyone outside of CH would think that Roy has done amazing things with a team of 4 first round NBA picks.

In fact most UNC fans I talk to are not very hopeful of a deep run in the NCAAT and think the team has underachieved.

I am not writing them off by any means but to think that what Roy has done this year is worthy of COY honors is a bit of a stretch IMO.

Agreed. For most of the season, the Heels have looked like a team where the whole is less than the sum of the parts. They have certainly NOT been the juggernaut that many were predicting in the preseason. Injuries to McDonald and Strickland have been a factor, to be sure, but they still have arguably the most talent 1-7 on their roster anywhere outside of Lexington. But McAdoo and Hairston have had less impact than expected, and Barnes has not been a consistently dominant player - again, as many were predicting in preseason - by any stretch (I would argue that he has regressed somewhat versus the second half of last season, especially in terms of defense, board work and general "activity level"). So where exactly is the rationale for Roy as a COY candidate?

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Trying this again...
An example of good coaching in a tight game by Roy that no-one ever wants to give him credit for...

http://youtu.be/dkKaCgd5eLw?hd=1

[nocilla]

Trying this again...
An example of good coaching in a tight game by Roy that no-one ever wants to give him credit for...

http://youtu.be/dkKaCgd5eLw?hd=1

Really there should have been an offensive foul on Bullock for a moving screen and then a technical foul on Henson for taunting. But maybe you are arguing that Roy deserves credit for whatever he did to keep the official's whistles quiet...

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Really there should have been an offensive foul on Bullock for a moving screen and then a technical foul on Henson for taunting. But maybe you are arguing that Roy deserves credit for whatever he did to keep the official's whistles quiet...

Thanks for the help making my point.

[Duvall]

Trying this again...
An example of good coaching in a tight game by Roy that no-one ever wants to give him credit for...

http://youtu.be/dkKaCgd5eLw?hd=1


Would this be the play that was diagrammed on that night's SportsCenter? No one associated with UNC basketball has ever had to worry about not getting enough credit.

[UrinalCake]

In other news, Henson has really long arms :)

[phaedrus]

Trying this again...
An example of good coaching in a tight game by Roy that no-one ever wants to give him credit for...

http://youtu.be/dkKaCgd5eLw?hd=1

An in-bounds play not much different from what my high school ran, with over seven minutes to go in the game? Yeah, I'll give him that much credit.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

In other news, Henson has really long arms :)

And Marshall is a really good passer....:)

[jv001]

And Marshall is a really good passer....:)

but Marshall is being redshirted this year. GoDuke!

[ChicagoHeel]

The only way I could see Coach K having a shot at COY is if he wins out including the ACCT. That may be enough to do it. I don't think Roy has a shot, because even if UNC does win out it would be as predicted.

I don't think that K or Roy will win it... not sure who will at this point, still a lot of important games to be played.....

If Duke wins out, I don't see how anyone other than K gets it. That would mean two, and possibly three, victories over us, a 17-2 record against ACC opponents, an eleven game winning streak to close the season, and both the regular and tournament titles in the ACC. That exceeds expectations, which others have noted is really the key criterion for winning COY. Just one more reason we need to take care of business on Saturday night...

I think Hamilton could get it if FSU either wins out or wins the rest of its regular season games and then beats UNC/ Duke in the ACC tournament before losing a relatively close game in the final.

Expectations for us were too high going into the season. Nothing short of 16-0 would have won it for Roy. NCSU and UVa have shown flashes, but are fading too much down the stretch.

[devilsadvocate85]

If Duke wins out, I don't see how anyone other than K gets it. That would mean two, and possibly three, victories over us, a 17-2 record against ACC opponents, an eleven game winning streak to close the season, and both the regular and tournament titles in the ACC. That exceeds expectations, which others have noted is really the key criterion for winning COY. Just one more reason we need to take care of business on Saturday night...

I think Hamilton could get it if FSU either wins out or wins the rest of its regular season games and then beats UNC/ Duke in the ACC tournament before losing a relatively close game in the final.

Expectations for us were too high going into the season. Nothing short of 16-0 would have won it for Roy. NCSU and UVa have shown flashes, but are fading too much down the stretch.

As I've pointed out in the Austin Rivers for 1st team thread, I would argue that a team having the ACC POY and potentially two other first team all-conference players should be expected to dominate the conference. My question if I were a UNC fan is; why isn't a team with that much talent dominant? Coaching? Effort (especially on the defensive end)? Chemistry?

[ChicagoHeel]

As I've pointed out in the Austin Rivers for 1st team thread, I would argue that a team having the ACC POY and potentially two other first team all-conference players should be expected to dominate the conference. My question if I were a UNC fan is; why isn't a team with that much talent dominant? Coaching? Effort (especially on the defensive end)? Chemistry?

I suppose my first response is that, while we have not dominated the way some might have expected, we are 25-4 and a very good team. We've had some good ACC road wins- e.g. Miami, UVa, and NCSU- and not really struggled at home at all in ACC play, with one obvious Satan-induced exception. We've also had two really tough losses that could have gone either way. Davis doesn't get his hand on Henson's shot and/or Zeller doesn't score an "own goal", and we'd probably wouldn't be having a conversation about UNC failing to live up to expectations. I'm not denying your point that we've failed to dominate, just pointing out that there's a fine line between winning a lot and dominating.

I think a lot of pundits (esp. Bilas) and fans expected another 2009 team and feels 2012 doesn't measure up. Everyone remembers the fact that the 2009 rolled through the tournament and therefore defines that team as dominant. Of course, that team also had some stumbles along the way, including an 0-2 ACC start and three ACC losses (four if you included the tournament). So at this point in the 2009 season, we might not have been seen as sufficiently dominant either.

That being said, I think there are some reasons we have not lived up to preseason expectations. The most obvious is injuries. Losing Dex hurts us against teams with quick guards. Rivers is a match-up nightmare for us without Dex because he's fast and draws a lot of fouls. We don't have Dex to slow him down and Marshall has to be extra careful against his opponent because there's no backup in case of foul trouble. Rivers played a phenomenal game against us, and you might have won regardless, but the bottom line is that we are thinner and more vulnerable to teams with good backcourts without Dex.

The other issue we've faced is simple to identify but hard to solve- outside shooting. We expected that the combination of Barnes, Bullock, and Hairston would really open things up outside and provide balance that would make us close to unstoppable, but that has not proven to be the case, at least not on a consistent basis. I don't really know why that is.

Finally, I would chalk a lot of it up to experience. To no great surprise, our starting senior and junior are our most consistent contributors. The other three are sophomores. Our bench consists of freshman. OUtside Henson and Zeller we have highly talented, great players, but they are more up and down. The consistent excellence that is required if a team is going to be genuinely dominant tends to require upperclassmen. UK this year seems more the exception than the rule. Our 2009 team started two seniors and three juniors. This team, while not young, is a lot younger.

In any case, there's a lot of games left to be played. We take care of business Saturday night and beyond and the preseason pundits will start looking a lot smarter.

[Wander]

As I've pointed out in the Austin Rivers for 1st team thread, I would argue that a team having the ACC POY and potentially two other first team all-conference players should be expected to dominate the conference. My question if I were a UNC fan is; why isn't a team with that much talent dominant? Coaching? Effort (especially on the defensive end)? Chemistry?

Careful. Last year Duke has the ACC POY and another 1st teamer, UNC had zero 1st team all-ACC selections, and UNC won the regular season.

[jv001]

I suppose my first response is that, while we have not dominated the way some might have expected, we are 25-4 and a very good team. We've had some good ACC road wins- e.g. Miami, UVa, and NCSU- and not really struggled at home at all in ACC play, with one obvious Satan-induced exception. We've also had two really tough losses that could have gone either way. Davis doesn't get his hand on Henson's shot and/or Zeller doesn't score an "own goal", and we'd probably wouldn't be having a conversation about UNC failing to live up to expectations. I'm not denying your point that we've failed to dominate, just pointing out that there's a fine line between winning a lot and dominating.

I think a lot of pundits (esp. Bilas) and fans expected another 2009 team and feels 2012 doesn't measure up. Everyone remembers the fact that the 2009 rolled through the tournament and therefore defines that team as dominant. Of course, that team also had some stumbles along the way, including an 0-2 ACC start and three ACC losses (four if you included the tournament). So at this point in the 2009 season, we might not have been seen as sufficiently dominant either.

That being said, I think there are some reasons we have not lived up to preseason expectations. The most obvious is injuries. Losing Dex hurts us against teams with quick guards. Rivers is a match-up nightmare for us without Dex because he's fast and draws a lot of fouls. We don't have Dex to slow him down and Marshall has to be extra careful against his opponent because there's no backup in case of foul trouble. Rivers played a phenomenal game against us, and you might have won regardless, but the bottom line is that we are thinner and more vulnerable to teams with good backcourts without Dex.

The other issue we've faced is simple to identify but hard to solve- outside shooting. We expected that the combination of Barnes, Bullock, and Hairston would really open things up outside and provide balance that would make us close to unstoppable, but that has not proven to be the case, at least not on a consistent basis. I don't really know why that is.

Finally, I would chalk a lot of it up to experience. To no great surprise, our starting senior and junior are our most consistent contributors. The other three are sophomores. Our bench consists of freshman. OUtside Henson and Zeller we have highly talented, great players, but they are more up and down. The consistent excellence that is required if a team is going to be genuinely dominant tends to require upperclassmen. UK this year seems more the exception than the rule. Our 2009 team started two seniors and three juniors. This team, while not young, is a lot younger.

In any case, there's a lot of games left to be played. We take care of business Saturday night and beyond and the preseason pundits will start looking a lot smarter.
Sort of like what Coach K had to do last year when we lost Kyrie. He did a fantastic job of bringing the team on after that, but still we did not reach the ultimate goal(NCAA Championship). I think your team is a very good team just like I think ours is a very good team. GoDuke!

[jimsumner]

Careful. Last year Duke has the ACC POY and another 1st teamer, UNC had zero 1st team all-ACC selections, and UNC won the regular season.

And Roy Williams was voted Coach of the Year.

[Wander]

And Roy Williams was voted Coach of the Year.

Not arguing against K as Coach of the Year - I actually think if Duke wins out he deserves it. Just don't like the idea of calling out the effort or coaching of UNC based not wining the conference with multiple 1st teamers.

[oldnavy]

An in-bounds play not much different from what my high school ran, with over seven minutes to go in the game? Yeah, I'll give him that much credit.

Yea, I am still trying to determine if he is kidding or serious with this example....

[COYS]

I suppose my first response is that, while we have not dominated the way some might have expected, we are 25-4 and a very good team. We've had some good ACC road wins- e.g. Miami, UVa, and NCSU- and not really struggled at home at all in ACC play, with one obvious Satan-induced exception. We've also had two really tough losses that could have gone either way. Davis doesn't get his hand on Henson's shot and/or Zeller doesn't score an "own goal", and we'd probably wouldn't be having a conversation about UNC failing to live up to expectations. I'm not denying your point that we've failed to dominate, just pointing out that there's a fine line between winning a lot and dominating.

I think a lot of pundits (esp. Bilas) and fans expected another 2009 team and feels 2012 doesn't measure up. Everyone remembers the fact that the 2009 rolled through the tournament and therefore defines that team as dominant. Of course, that team also had some stumbles along the way, including an 0-2 ACC start and three ACC losses (four if you included the tournament). So at this point in the 2009 season, we might not have been seen as sufficiently dominant either.

That being said, I think there are some reasons we have not lived up to preseason expectations. The most obvious is injuries. Losing Dex hurts us against teams with quick guards. Rivers is a match-up nightmare for us without Dex because he's fast and draws a lot of fouls. We don't have Dex to slow him down and Marshall has to be extra careful against his opponent because there's no backup in case of foul trouble. Rivers played a phenomenal game against us, and you might have won regardless, but the bottom line is that we are thinner and more vulnerable to teams with good backcourts without Dex.

The other issue we've faced is simple to identify but hard to solve- outside shooting. We expected that the combination of Barnes, Bullock, and Hairston would really open things up outside and provide balance that would make us close to unstoppable, but that has not proven to be the case, at least not on a consistent basis. I don't really know why that is.

Finally, I would chalk a lot of it up to experience. To no great surprise, our starting senior and junior are our most consistent contributors. The other three are sophomores. Our bench consists of freshman. OUtside Henson and Zeller we have highly talented, great players, but they are more up and down. The consistent excellence that is required if a team is going to be genuinely dominant tends to require upperclassmen. UK this year seems more the exception than the rule. Our 2009 team started two seniors and three juniors. This team, while not young, is a lot younger.

In any case, there's a lot of games left to be played. We take care of business Saturday night and beyond and the preseason pundits will start looking a lot smarter.

This is a well-rounded answer. To be honest, I'm surprised that Duke fans haven't hit the nail on the head for the biggest reason UNC hasn't appeared so dominant: Duke! UNC has Duke to blame for one of their two losses, which tightened the top of the standings. A UNC team looking to go 15-1 on Saturday in Cameron WOULD have had a dominant season, as, if they were to accomplish that feat, they would have to beat Duke twice meaning Duke would be 12-4. That is probably closer to where most people would have guessed we would be in the pre-season. However, Duke has been the team that has played really well, gutted out a few close games, and handed UNC a second ACC loss, thus keeping UNC from running away from the pack. Assuming UNC wins tonight, most people would see a potential 14-2 ACC record as pretty dominant and good enough to win the regular season. It just so happens that because Duke has played well enough to match UNC in the rankings, a potential 14-2 record no longer fulfills sports fans' criteria for the word "dominant."

[COYS]

To go one step further, this year's team can do no worse than match the 13-3 ACC record of the 2010 team. The 2010 team was far more dominant than people realize. Their adjusted efficiency margin (subtracting the defensive efficiency from the offensive efficiency to get their expected margin of victory against an average NCAA team from that season) was 37.6 points per 100 possessions. This was even more dominant relative to the competition than UNC's 2009 team according to KenPom (http://kenpom.com/index.php?y=2010). Our adjusted differential for this season is just 24.6 points per 100 possessions. The fact that we might end up with a better ACC record than the 2010 team is more of a testament to how well this team has battled than how dominant (or not) UNC has been.

[Duvall]

2010: Replace two starters, both of whom would go on to be 1st round picks in the NBA Draft. Win 13 games in conference, an ACC championship and a national championship. Use summer vacation to lead the U.S. "B-Team" to a FIBA World Championship.
2011: Replace three starters. Lose best player in college basketball at midseason. Win 13 games in conference and an ACC championship.
2012: Replace three starters, including the ACC POY and the #1 pick in the NBA Draft. Win 13 games in conference, with more opportunities to come.

[bird]

2010: Replace two starters, both of whom would go on to be 1st round picks in the NBA Draft. Win 13 games in conference, an ACC championship and a national championship. Use summer vacation to lead the U.S. "B-Team" to a FIBA World Championship.
2011: Replace three starters. Lose best player in college basketball at midseason. Win 13 games in conference and an ACC championship.
2012: Replace three starters, including the ACC POY and the #1 pick in the NBA Draft. Win 13 games in conference, with more opportunities to come.

According to Wiki, over the last ten years K has not won the recognition even once, while Roy has won twice, Gary has won twice, and Seth won twice. Herb, Leonard, and Skip also won once each. Even Leitao one once. Time for a well-deserved make up call, IMO.

[COYS]

According to Wiki, over the last ten years K has not won the recognition even once, while Roy has won twice, Gary has won twice, and Seth won twice. Herb, Leonard, and Skip also won once each. Even Leitao one once. Time for a well-deserved make up call, IMO.

The worst season during that 10 year stretch was a 22-11 "disaster" (not quite Hatian Earthquake bad like UNC's 2010 season, but you catch my drift). Otherwise, pencil in Duke for winning a ridiculous amount of games, a whole bunch of ACC titles, a National Title, another Final Four, a NPOY (or two), a NDPOY, a number 1 draft pick, a whole bunch of All Americans. It's hard to get recognition for making it to the top when you've been there for most of the last 26 years. Seriously, we can't appreciate what K has done too much. It's simply mind-boggling what he's done in the last 10 years. And that doesn't even include the 16 years before that!

[ChicagoHeel]

This is a well-rounded answer. To be honest, I'm surprised that Duke fans haven't hit the nail on the head for the biggest reason UNC hasn't appeared so dominant: Duke! UNC has Duke to blame for one of their two losses, which tightened the top of the standings. A UNC team looking to go 15-1 on Saturday in Cameron WOULD have had a dominant season, as, if they were to accomplish that feat, they would have to beat Duke twice meaning Duke would be 12-4. That is probably closer to where most people would have guessed we would be in the pre-season. However, Duke has been the team that has played really well, gutted out a few close games, and handed UNC a second ACC loss, thus keeping UNC from running away from the pack. Assuming UNC wins tonight, most people would see a potential 14-2 ACC record as pretty dominant and good enough to win the regular season. It just so happens that because Duke has played well enough to match UNC in the rankings, a potential 14-2 record no longer fulfills sports fans' criteria for the word "dominant."

It's funny that you wrote this because right after I finished my post, I thought that I should have added a fourth reason...Duke. I think you're absolutely correct that Duke's success is part of the reason it feels like we are not meeting expectations. Not only did you hand us a loss, but the gap between us was supposed to be larger than it currently is. It's inevitable that we measure success based on a comparison with you and (so far) it has not worked out the way we hoped. Luckily we have a chance Saturday to right the ship.

[bob blue devil]

According to Wiki, over the last ten years K has not won the recognition even once, while Roy has won twice, Gary has won twice, and Seth won twice. Herb, Leonard, and Skip also won once each. Even Leitao one once. Time for a well-deserved make up call, IMO.

over coach K's entire duke career, if they simply chose the winner by random he would've expected to take home 3-4 awards (3.44 for you precision nerds), so at 5 we can all safely conclude that his tenure at duke should be best described as slightly better than average, but not with any statistical significance.

[Dev11]

ESPN's 'expert' picks:

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7628721/experts-picks-conference-poy-coy

Coach K gets half of the 12 picks, Hamilton second with 3. Shoutouts to Larranaga and Bennett.

And Dana O'Neil thinks Kendall Marshall is POY, the only one who didn't pick Zeller.

[Bluedog]

ESPN's 'expert' picks:

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7628721/experts-picks-conference-poy-coy

Coach K gets half of the 12 picks, Hamilton second with 3. Shoutouts to Larranaga and Bennett.

And Dana O'Neil thinks Kendall Marshall is POY, the only one who didn't pick Zeller.

Thanks for the link. John Gasaway also didn't pick Zeller for POY - he chose Mike Scott.

[Duvall]

Trying this again...
An example of good coaching in a tight game by Roy that no-one ever wants to give him credit for...

http://youtu.be/dkKaCgd5eLw?hd=1

Maryland just scored on a lob dunk out of a timeout. Turgeon for ACC COY?

[devildeac]

Maryland just scored on a lob dunk out of a timeout. Turgeon for ACC COY?

He also just picked up a T.

[UrinalCake]

And Dana O'Neil thinks Kendall Marshall is POY, the only one who didn't pick Zeller.

I could buy the argument for MVP, but not POY. Though that does kind of beg the question of how you define POY.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Zach Dillard at FoxSports thinks K deserves the ACC COY, and lists tons of good reasons to back himself up.

Here's one of them.

Forget the No. 6 ranking in the AP preseason poll. Just think of the obstacles Krzyzewski overcame this season. He lost his three best players from last season – Kyle Singler, Nolan Smith and No. 1 NBA draft pick Kyrie Irving. He has been forced to shuffle and reshuffle the lineup. There is no definitive starter at point guard, the shooters are as streaky as they are gifted, frontcourt production remains a toss-up from game to game and the team's best offensive weapon is a supremely talented, yet ultimate gunner in freshman star Austin Rivers. It reads like a recipe for shaky offense.

Still, it is late February and the Blue Devils grade out as one of the top offensive teams in the country — limiting turnovers and averaging an elite 119 points per 100 possessions.

http://www.foxsportssouth.com/02/29/12/Coach-K-deserves-ACC-Coach-of-the-Year-h/landing_acc.html?blockID=676934&feedID=3796

[Jderf]

Zach Dillard at FoxSports thinks K deserves the ACC COY, and lists tons of good reasons to back himself up.

http://www.foxsportssouth.com/02/29/12/Coach-K-deserves-ACC-Coach-of-the-Year-h/landing_acc.html?blockID=676934&feedID=3796

Great article. It is getting harder and harder to argue against K for COY, as Dillard shows. In particular, I thought this quote deserved a direct post in the thread:


So how does a 12-time National Coach of the Year winner claim the ACC honor only five times in 31 seasons? The country’s top chef is struggling to earn Employee of the Month at his own restaurant.