MBB: Duke vs. Florida State Pre-Game and In-Game Thread

[watzone]

I thought there might be a thread already on a game that has huge implications in so many ways. In a sense, this is the biggest game to date for Duke with the conference regular season at stake. This should be a barn burner for sure and I personally cannot wait for tip off in that this will be a brawl. The players seem ready for the challenge, especially Austin Rivers. Here is what he had to say yesterday - http://bluedevilnation.net/2012/02/13266/ and then there is Ryan Kelly which this interview is pretty much the same one everybody else has - http://bluedevilnation.net/2012/02/duke-pre-game-ryan-kelly-talks-florida-state/

I was impressed with their win over NCS and the Noles are like 10-1 in there last 11 games, making them the ACC's hottest team.

[BluDvlsN1]

I thought there might be a thread already on a game that has huge implications in so many ways. In a sense, this is the biggest game to date for Duke with the conference regular season at stake. This should be a barn burner for sure and I personally cannot wait for tip off in that this will be a brawl. The players seem ready for the challenge, especially Austin Rivers. Here is what he had to say yesterday - http://bluedevilnation.net/2012/02/13266/ and then there is Ryan Kelly which this interview is pretty much the same one everybody else has - http://bluedevilnation.net/2012/02/duke-pre-game-ryan-kelly-talks-florida-state/

I was impressed with their win over NCS and the Noles are like 10-1 in there last 11 games, making them the ACC's hottest team.

Really good interviews, with two thoughtfull, Intelligent, well spoken Dukies!
Thank you

[watzone]

Two really good interviews, with two thoughtfull, Intelligent, well spoken Dukies!
Thank you

Austin is the best interview to come down the pike since Shane Battier and that says a lot. And yes, Duke is so lucky to have such great character in their players and all of them are sharp as a tack. I will have another one coming with Tyler Thornton shortly. The Duke practice went an hour over the scheduled time yesterday and the players looked as if they'd absorbed a lot per body language and such.

[jimsumner]

Florida State is a very, very deep team. Against NC State, they had five players pick up two fouls in the first half and they never skipped a beat. Hamilton used 11 players in the first half and all 11 contributed.

Ian Miller might have been their best player against NCSU and he comes off the bench.

So, they don't worry all that much about fouls.

And these aren't cheap fouls. FSU is big and strong and they get their money's worth.

So, the key is to match that level of physicality without being thrown off what you do well. Plumlee, Plumlee, Kelly and Hairston in particular need to strap on the hard hats and get ready to go to work.

[Billy Dat]

Austin is the best interview to come down the pike since Shane Battier and that says a lot. And yes, Duke is so lucky to have such great character in their players and all of them are sharp as a tack. I will have another one coming with Tyler Thornton shortly. The Duke practice went an hour over the scheduled time yesterday and the players looked as if they'd absorbed a lot per body language and such.

Were Rivers and Battier (and I assume Carawell) such great interviews because they skip cliches and provide thoughtful answers? Is it something else?

It struck me watching this interview how much Austin's accent sounds like Doc...I'd never noticed it before.

[-bdbd]

I have no doubt but that FSU is entering this game with a great deal of confidence.
1. Their recent play has been solid, save the one inexplicable upset.
2. They already beat Duke AT DUKE just a few weeks ago. And recall that it wasn't a "fluke", as Duke fought back in the last minute just to catch up.
3. This game is at FSU, where they've historically played Duke well (and, of course, see point #2... If you can beat someone at THEIR place, shouldn't you expect to do it, then, at your own?).

I do expect Duke to be coming into this one really, really focused. Given that there's a real possibility of ending the season tied with these guys in the standings, a split of our match-ups would obviously impact the ACCT seeds. You could easily make the argument that this is the most important game that remains on our schedule.

Go Duke!!!

[Saratoga2]

1. Duke really needs to get off to a solid start. It has been hard to understand how they have been so off at the start of recent games. I can't put my finger on what is happening to the team to cause this, but it just seems they have no focus until they get into the game after getting behind. Perhaps it is the structure of the starting lineup, but coach K has tried a lot of variations at the start of the games and hasn't really had much luck.

2. We know that FSU plays physical defense and won't allow a lot of space for our shooters outside nor give up much to our front court. Clearly we also need to play solid defense for the entire game. I have been happy with the progress of Seth, Andre and Austin on the defensive end. If we can hold FSU's scoring down and rebound reasonably well, It will come to who has the best offense. I think Duke can win that battle.

3. With the closeness of the guarding, Seth's ball handling is suspect. He had 6 TO's in the last game, something that we won't be able to afford against FSU. While we need Seth to score points, it may be necessary to pass the ball handling chores over to Quinn or Tyler. If Seth can tighten up his handle, we can then put our three best guards on the floor together.

4. I would like to see Andre build on his recent progress and move a lot more without the ball. If they tire of chasing him, he can be a very effective scorer.

5. Our inside game has not been solid when facing a big and physical front court. Our guys have got to try to compete equally in scoring, rebounding and defensive effort to give us our best chance. Mason needs to move it up a notch from his most recent efforts.

[DukieInBrasil]

1. Duke really needs to get off to a solid start. It has been hard to understand how they have been so off at the start of recent games. I can't put my finger on what is happening to the team to cause this, but it just seems they have no focus until they get into the game after getting behind. Perhaps it is the structure of the starting lineup, but coach K has tried a lot of variations at the start of the games and hasn't really had much luck.

2. We know that FSU plays physical defense and won't allow a lot of space for our shooters outside nor give up much to our front court. Clearly we also need to play solid defense for the entire game. I have been happy with the progress of Seth, Andre and Austin on the defensive end. If we can hold FSU's scoring down and rebound reasonably well, It will come to who has the best offense. I think Duke can win that battle.

3. With the closeness of the guarding, Seth's ball handling is suspect. He had 6 TO's in the last game, something that we won't be able to afford against FSU. While we need Seth to score points, it may be necessary to pass the ball handling chores over to Quinn or Tyler. If Seth can tighten up his handle, we can then put our three best guards on the floor together.

4. I would like to see Andre build on his recent progress and move a lot more without the ball. If they tire of chasing him, he can be a very effective scorer.

5. Our inside game has not been solid when facing a big and physical front court. Our guys have got to try to compete equally in scoring, rebounding and defensive effort to give us our best chance. Mason needs to move it up a notch from his most recent efforts.

One thing that K has mentioned is that this team's identity is so tied to how they play on offense. So, if the O starts off slow the D tends to start off slow. Tyler Thornton's presence in the starting 5 has a negative impact on the offensive effectiveness, particularly of Curry and Rivers. Therefore, it seems logical that K would want to not start Thornton, letting the team get some offensive flow going to stimulate effort on D. Tyler has a place on this team for sure, but i don't see how it's in the starting line-up.

[sagegrouse]

1. How will the big guys do? Duke's bigs had little success in January against a physical FSU team, rebounding OK, but totaling only 5 of 16 from within the arc. Miles and Mason had 7 and 6 respectively Ryan had ten, but six were from 3-pt. land.

2. Can Duke stand up physically for 40 minutes against the 'Noles? Last time, the big and deep FSU team was much stronger than Duke in the second half. Will K use a ten-man rotation (w/ Josh and Gbinije) this time?

3. Duke shot 40% from beyond the arc in the first game, but Seth struggled with his shot (4-16). Will Seth provide scoring and leadership this time?

4. Will this game turn on an emotional moment like the last one? I thought the Snaer fluke at the end of the first half propelled FSU in the second half.


sagegrouse

[RockyMtDevil]

1. Start strong, which is exactly what we did against UNC. We took shots with confidance
2. Feed Mason early: Let him establish a low post presence even against their long front line
3. Push their guards out: We have yet to do this consistently this year, but it would be nice to force their guards to set up their offense further out and away from their comfort zones. Andre and Tyler can help with this if we can stay in front of the dribble drive
4. Limit Second Chance Points: I'll let FSU shoot all night save Snaer and Dulkys, but we have to get bodies on guys and Mason adn Miles may both need double digit boards tonight
5. Play Loose: They are home, they are supposed to protect their court, let's play with energy and freedom
6. Swagger: it's time to bring out the Duke swagger. We are freakin Duke and you're Not.

[Kedsy]

And recall that it wasn't a "fluke", as Duke fought back in the last minute just to catch up.

This isn't really correct. In the first game this season, Florida State led the game for a total of 1 minute and 41 seconds. The longest amount of contiguous time they held a lead was 47 seconds. And the only moment they had more than a 2 point lead was when the buzzer beater went through the net.

I'm not saying it was a "fluke." It was a hard fought game. But Florida State was playing catchup for practically the entire game, and Duke never got behind by more than one possession.

[Kedsy]

I think the key to the game is controlling Bernard James. In the first game, he seemed to be in a fog in the first half and we outplayed them. He woke up in the second half and they outplayed us. If we can get him in foul trouble, their lineup is much less effective without him. Alternatively, it would be nice if Mason or Miles steps up and gives Mr. James a frustrating evening.

[jimsumner]

This isn't really correct. In the first game this season, Florida State led the game for a total of 1 minute and 41 seconds. The longest amount of contiguous time they held a lead was 47 seconds. And the only moment they had more than a 2 point lead was when the buzzer beater went through the net.

I'm not saying it was a "fluke." It was a hard fought game. But Florida State was playing catchup for practically the entire game, and Duke never got behind by more than one possession.

It's tempting to speculate what might have happened had the last few seconds of the first half played out differently. Recall that Duke had a nine-point lead with seconds left. Austin Rivers hit an apparent 3-pointer that was disallowed when one of the officials saw (or thought he saw) the ball nick a support cable. Then Snaer picked up a loose ball and banked in a desperation 3 from the baseline at the buzzer.

That's a six-point swing in a matter of seconds. Now, FSU is a veteran team, with lots of poise and moxy, so maybe it would have turned out the same. But a 12-point deficit at intermission is a different can of worms than a six-point deficit.

[rsvman]

It's tempting to speculate what might have happened had the last few seconds of the first half played out differently. Recall that Duke had a nine-point lead with seconds left. Austin Rivers hit an apparent 3-pointer that was disallowed when one of the officials saw (or thought he saw) the ball nick a support cable. Then Snaer picked up a loose ball and banked in a desperation 3 from the baseline at the buzzer.

That's a six-point swing in a matter of seconds. Now, FSU is a veteran team, with lots of poise and moxy, so maybe it would have turned out the same. But a 12-point deficit at intermission is a different can of worms than a six-point deficit.

Totally agree. My thoughts exactly. When I was watching the game and that sequence of events unfolded, I thought it might turn out to be pivotal.

[MChambers]

It's tempting to speculate what might have happened had the last few seconds of the first half played out differently. Recall that Duke had a nine-point lead with seconds left. Austin Rivers hit an apparent 3-pointer that was disallowed when one of the officials saw (or thought he saw) the ball nick a support cable. Then Snaer picked up a loose ball and banked in a desperation 3 from the baseline at the buzzer.

That's a six-point swing in a matter of seconds. Now, FSU is a veteran team, with lots of poise and moxy, so maybe it would have turned out the same. But a 12-point deficit at intermission is a different can of worms than a six-point deficit.
A 12 point lead at home is awfully good. I was feeling quite relaxed and then that weirdness happened that seemed to cost us 6 points. (I wondered whether the clock started quickly enough on that last possession before the half, too, but was too lazy to check.)

[OldPhiKap]

This should be a great game. FSU certainly belongs in the discussion of best conference team with us and the heels -- it's no fluke. Time to put on our big boy pants and clamp down on D.

LGD!!!!

[Billy Dat]

It's tempting to speculate what might have happened had the last few seconds of the first half played out differently. Recall that Duke had a nine-point lead with seconds left. Austin Rivers hit an apparent 3-pointer that was disallowed when one of the officials saw (or thought he saw) the ball nick a support cable. Then Snaer picked up a loose ball and banked in a desperation 3 from the baseline at the buzzer.

That's a six-point swing in a matter of seconds. Now, FSU is a veteran team, with lots of poise and moxy, so maybe it would have turned out the same. But a 12-point deficit at intermission is a different can of worms than a six-point deficit.

It felt a little like Derek Williams nailing that unlikely 3 at the first half buzzer in the Sweet 16 closing the gap to 6 instead of it being 9. But, unlike the FSU game, they beat us by 22 in the second half.

[jv001]

I think the key to the game is controlling Bernard James. In the first game, he seemed to be in a fog in the first half and we outplayed them. He woke up in the second half and they outplayed us. If we can get him in foul trouble, their lineup is much less effective without him. Alternatively, it would be nice if Mason or Miles steps up and gives Mr. James a frustrating evening.

I agree with Kedsy on this one. James was just not into it the first half, but boy did he come alive in the 2nd half. If Miles can stay out of foul trouble, I believe James will play more like he did in the first half rather than the great 2nd half. Let's face it, FSU has a very good team, but so do we. I hope our 3s are falling early and we get them down double figures. I would hate to see that storming the court by the Nole fans. GoDuke!

[Bob Green]

Vegas has Duke as a one point favorite with the over/under set at 140.5:

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/teams/team-page.cfm/team/duke

71-70? I'll take it!

[gumbomoop]

If Miles can stay out of foul trouble....

Mason, too, and Ryan, for that matter.

Hard to find any fault in Duke's win over BC. About the only negative in what was otherwise a laugher: Mason's very ill-advised fouls. He ended with 4 fouls, of which I'd count 3 as un-smart, starting, early on, with a foul on a little used Fr C way out top. That fellow was no threat to do [much of] anything, so Mason's hack 25' out was un-smart.

In the first few minutes, it seemed clear that K's game plan included getting the ball to Mason down low. But because of Mason's foul troubles, that part of the game plan went out the window.

To no harm whatsoever, for that game. But BC just didn't have much of an inside game, whereas James, especially, but also Gibson and White can score.

[Chris Randolph]

This game has flown under the radar amongst the national analysts. I think it is mostly because the name "Florida State" in a big time basketball game doesn't seem right. But this is a monster game between 2 good teams. My only pre game thoughts:

Just win, baby

[moonpie23]

vegas just wants a lot of money laid off on this... BUT.....man those cats know how to figure it out...

[dukeballboy88]

IF Fsu wins this will be 3 straight wins over Duke. I cant see it though. I see Duke taking this one. I think Duke is a better team and they seem to play better oon the road for whatever reason. I could see Duke pulling away in this one.

[wtm001]

IF Fsu wins this will be 3 straight wins over Duke. I cant see it though. I see Duke taking this one. I think Duke is a better team and they seem to play better oon the road for whatever reason. I could see Duke pulling away in this one.

I've got to agree with you. I don't know why, but I really can't see Duke losing this game. All week I've just had the feeling Duke is gonna take this one. Let's hope I'm right! :cool:

LET'S GO DUKE!

[gep]

I was wondering... and after reading the posts above... when was the last time that Duke lost to the same ACC team twice in the same season (unc not withstanding)... :cool: (thanks guys/gals)

[Bob Green]

I was wondering... and after reading the posts above... when was the last time that Duke lost to the same ACC team twice in the same season (unc not withstanding)... :cool: (thanks guys/gals)

In 2007, Duke lost to Maryland twice. We also lost to Carolina twice that season.

[Duke of Nashville]

Crammed a weeks worth of traveling into three days to prep for this game. Let's Go Duke!

[slower]

FWIW, FSU is 9-6 against the spread at home, Duke is 5-3 against the spread on the road.

Regardless, the game could obviously go either way. There are countless factors that could be significant. Anybody who says they "have a feeling" is just guessing/hoping, plain and simple. Obviously, we're all on edge about tonight. I agree with several posters who prefer the Seth/Austin dual primary ballhandlers setup, IF they are on their game. No knock against TT - his hard-nosed persona will probably be very valuable tonight.

[dukestheheat]

Hey guys I believe the first and most important thing we have to do is keep the 'Noles off the boards for second shot putbacks; in doing so, we should win the rebound battle tonight and that predicts better for us.

This is a really big game.

dukestheheat.

[Cameron]

If Florida State's incredible physicality and length prove to present Mason and Miles with a reduced amount of clean scoring opportunities inside, and I think that they might (Mason and Miles combined for just 13 points on 4 of 9 shooting in the first meeting with the 'Noles), I really hope that the tandem remains cognizant of just how deadly the post-kickout for open jump shots can be. It may sound like simple strategy, but it is a strategy that basically led us to a national championship two years ago, and it's something that we haven't been all that successful at this year. Brian Zoubek was a machine when it came to executing the inside-out game, an absolute genius. Pete Carril would have given a lung to coach No. 55, and might have reached a Sweet 16 or two in the process.

Instead of settling for a George Mikan hookshot from 10 feet, which both Mason and Miles are sometimes smitten with doing, in many instances it would be so much more beneficial to pass up that Mikan play and take advantage of the collapsing defense by finding any one of our three Chris Mullins floating around the perimeter. They did a much better job of this against North Carolina, and it turned out beautifully. One pass in particular from Mason to Seth Curry for that trailing 25-foot Seth Curry three in the final moments was about as close to seeing Shane Battier don a Duke uniform again as we'll ever see. It was magnificent. In the past, Mason probably takes a dribble into the center of the lane and tries to George Gervin it in.

But we're not there yet. Miles especially, I think, needs to take better advantage of his skills as an offensive rebounder and realize when finding the open shooter is a more efficient play. Seize the opportunites to score when they're clear and there. But keep in mind that, especially in Coach K's philosophy of offense, an open three is almost always better option than a contested two.

[BlueDevilCorvette!]

FSU has the tendency to play a lot of guys. I expect this game to be an uptempo style of play and come the 2nd half, whomever has the strongest legs will likely be victorious. Thus I think it will be key for Duke's bench to give us some quality minutes, most notably Hairston and Cook but a pleasant surprise would be seeing Silent G getting some quality playing time. I think Silent G's length and defensive capabilities would be advantageous in Duke's ability to win this game tonight. LET'S GO DUKE!

[Kedsy]

...but a pleasant surprise would be seeing Silent G getting some quality playing time. I think Silent G's length and defensive capabilities would be advantageous in Duke's ability to win this game tonight. LET'S GO DUKE!

Every game somebody says this. Maybe if we keep saying it, it will eventually come true.

[superdave]

I think the key to the game is controlling Bernard James. In the first game, he seemed to be in a fog in the first half and we outplayed them. He woke up in the second half and they outplayed us. If we can get him in foul trouble, their lineup is much less effective without him. Alternatively, it would be nice if Mason or Miles steps up and gives Mr. James a frustrating evening.

I will be interested in seeing how often and how effectively we go into Mason in the post on offense. I think FSU's help side interior defense will give Mason problems on his hook shot, so I hope he can keep his wits and pass to a shooter when he feels the double team approaching.

Of course if Mason can make a power move and score quickly or get fouled, that's great too. But he often takes a dribble or two to improve his position which allows the defense time to help over on him. We should go at James early though and make him defend without fouling.

[MChambers]

If Florida State's incredible physicality and length prove to present Mason and Miles with a reduced amount of clean scoring opportunities inside, and I think that they might (Mason and Miles combined for just 13 points on 4 of 9 shooting in the first meeting with the 'Noles), I really hope that the tandem remains cognizant of just how deadly the post-kickout for open jump shots can be. It may sound like simple strategy, but it is a strategy that basically led us to a national championship two years ago, and it's something that we haven't been all that successful at this year. Brian Zoubek was a machine when it came to executing the inside-out game, an absolute genius. Pete Carril would have given a lung to coach No. 55, and might have reached a Sweet 16 or two in the process.

Instead of settling for a George Mikan hookshot from 10 feet, which both Mason and Miles are sometimes smitten with doing, in many instances it would be so much more beneficial to pass up that Mikan play and take advantage of the collapsing defense by finding any one of our three Chris Mullins floating around the perimeter. They did a much better job of this against North Carolina, and it turned out beautifully. One pass in particular from Mason to Seth Curry for that trailing 25-foot Seth Curry three in the final moments was about as close to seeing Shane Battier don a Duke uniform again as we'll ever see. It was magnificent. In the past, Mason probably takes a dribble into the center of the lane and tries to George Gervin it in.

But we're not there yet. Miles especially, I think, needs to take better advantage of his skills as an offensive rebounder and realize when finding the open shooter is a more efficient play. Seize the opportunites to score when they're clear and there. But keep in mind that, especially in Coach K's philosophy of offense, an open three is almost always better option than a contested two.
Do you realize you compared Mason to both George Mikan and George Gervin? Probably the only player in the history of the sport to be compared to those two players?

[BluDvlsN1]

Some of the recent posts have alluded to MP1&2 and their importance in various circumstances!
I couldn't agree more!
We need them on the court, out of foul trouble for a myriad of game situations!

On offense it gives us that all too valuable inside presence/threat to score down low that must be defensed!
It gives us the opportunity for Offensive boards and put backs and or kick outs!

On defense it puts us in position to board and 1and done possesions!
It puts us in position to contest the inside game more effectivly!
It gives us the outlet pass to start a possible break! An on and on!

None of this is available if early foul trouble evidences itself with the bigs!
Big key is, if both the Plum's can stay in a defensive stance, be in position to play defense with their feet and head, it will minimize the situations where there is a tendency to reach, poke, lunge for a unnecessary foul/s!
It will make them available when they need to play tough on the inside w/o the handicap of previous unnecessary fouls!

If they can harmess the tendency to make an "all world" play on every play, play within themselves, contest where it is appropriate! This will be major not only this evening but going forward!

I think a lot of the rest of our game takes care of itself given that set of circumstances!
It puts us in position to limit their offensive opportunities, increase ours and with our scoring potential
We should be in a favorable position to win!

Make no mistake, I think the world of these guys, this is just an outside observation that i'm convinced they've heard many times over and are aware of!

On another note! There have been comments recently about slow starts and effectiveness on the offensive side!
Things going full circle this season and not singleing out any one player/s,
I can't defend this with stats or other specifics!
But I have recently come to the conclusion that we tend to be most effective with Austin,Seth,Andre on the floor at the same time with a mix of bigs!

Okay let the games begin, go ahead, beat me up!!
LOL!!

[tommy]

Some of the recent posts have alluded to MP1&2 and their importance in various circumstances!
I couldn't agree more!
We need them on the court, out of foul trouble for a myriad of game situations!

On offense it gives us that all too valuable inside presence/threat to score down low that must be defensed!
It gives us the opportunity for Offensive boards and put backs and or kick outs!

On defense it puts us in position to board and 1and done possesions!
It puts us in position to contest the inside game more effectivly!
It gives us the outlet pass to start a possible break! An on and on!

None of this is available if early foul trouble evidences itself with the bigs!
Big key is, if both the Plum's can stay in a defensive stance, be in position to play defense with their feet and head, it will minimize the situations where there is a tendency to reach, poke, lunge for a unnecessary foul/s!
It will make them available when they need to play tough on the inside w/o the handicap of previous unnecessary fouls!

If they can harmess the tendency to make an "all world" play on every play, play within themselves, contest where it is appropriate! This will be major not only this evening but going forward!

I think a lot of the rest of our game takes care of itself given that set of circumstances!
It puts us in position to limit their offensive opportunities, increase ours and with our scoring potential
We should be in a favorable position to win!

Make no mistake, I think the world of these guys, this is just an outside observation that i'm convinced they've heard many times over and are aware of!

On another note! There have been comments recently about slow starts and effectiveness on the offensive side!
Things going full circle this season and not singleing out any one player/s,
I can't defend this with stats or other specifics!
But I have recently come to the conclusion that we tend to be most effective with Austin,Seth,Andre on the floor at the same time with a mix of bigs!

Okay let the games begin, go ahead, beat me up!!
LOL!!

Just a heads up, but I think both the Shift and the "1" keys on your keyboard are sticking a little.

[tommy]

Hey guys I believe the first and most important thing we have to do is keep the 'Noles off the boards for second shot putbacks.

FSU only got 4 offensive rebounds in the first game. We had many other problems defensively in that game, but I don't think that one was primary.


FSU has the tendency to play a lot of guys. I expect this game to be an uptempo style of play and come the 2nd half, whomever has the strongest legs will likely be victorious. Thus I think it will be key for Duke's bench to give us some quality minutes.

We basically only played 7 guys in the first game against FSU. Unless the bigs get into foul trouble and we need to get Josh into the mix more, I wouldn't expect K to go any deeper than that this time either (at least not for any significant minutes) especially considering the high intensity pressure cooker that this game figures to be. K tends to shorten the bench in these situations rather than throw guys in who haven't played major minutes all year.

[BluDvlsN1]

Just a heads up, but I think both the Shift and the "1" keys on your keyboard are sticking a little.

LOL!
I'm using an IPad!
More than likely, it's a combination of my old blind eyes and fat thumbs!
I'll be "cookin" when they come out with the braille version!'

Thanks for the heads up!

[nocilla]

We basically only played 7 guys in the first game against FSU. Unless the bigs get into foul trouble and we need to get Josh into the mix more, I wouldn't expect K to go any deeper than that this time either (at least not for any significant minutes) especially considering the high intensity pressure cooker that this game figures to be. K tends to shorten the bench in these situations rather than throw guys in who haven't played major minutes all year.

I think Cook was sick that game. And it was before K gave Hairston a couple starts. I think Cook and Hairston will both play tonight. Maybe not significant minutes but certainly more than the first meeting.

[Cameron]

Do you realize you compared Mason to both George Mikan and George Gervin? Probably the only player in the history of the sport to be compared to those two players?

Yes. Do you realize that I was not being serious? Those are just the facetious remarks I hysterically scream at my television when either Mason or Miles decides to perform The Skyhook over a flashmob of defenders.

While both have improved their inside scoring games considerably, namely Mason, I think they both underwhelmingly utilize the kick-out for open shots on the perimeter. And, with a slew of the finest marksmen the ACC has to offer dancing around our perimeter at any given time, it is a competitive advantage that we should try to maximize as much as possible. We still are going to get a lot of good three-point opportunities any time we play even without Brian Zoubek patrolling the paint, but we could get even better looks if our bigs began to place an added emphasis on the inside-out game. Aside from a lay-up or jam, the best shot in basketball is an offensive rebound cast out for an unobstructed three.

Enter Andre Dawkins. Watch how many times he will be left standing alone on the perimeter tonight, flapping his arms like a pterodactyl, while one of our bigs (or even penetrating guards) fails to even acknowledge he's alive, and I bet it will surprise you. Or maybe it won't. It doesn't me. As I said, however, since the UNC game, we seem to be improving in this area. At least somewhat.

[Olympic Fan]

FWIW, no predictions -- I am terrible at predictions.

But while I wouldn't hazard a guess to whether Duke wins or loses, I'd bet my car that the Blue Devils come out paying hard and focused (somerthing that don't always do this year). As DBR noted on the front page, this is the kind of game K lives for.

The hardest thing to guess is how well FSU will play. Yeah, they'll play hard and they'll play good defense, but they are the most erratic offensive team in college basketball. Sometimes they make everything (against UNC and us for example). Sometimes they can't make anything (at home against Clemson and Va Tech; on the road at BC). How well FSU shoots will determine whether this is a classic or a stinker.

One additional thought ... if Duke wins tonight, I expect them to come out lackadaisical and unfocused again Saturday against Virginia Tech at home. Probably not enough to cost them the game, but to make it more of a struggle that it should be. If Duke loses tonight, I don't anticipate the same problem.

[dukeballboy88]

Yes. Do you realize that I was not being serious? Those are just the facetious remarks I hysterically scream at my television when either Mason or Miles decides to perform The Skyhook over a flashmob of defenders.

While both have improved their inside scoring games considerably, namely Mason, I think they both underwhelmingly utilize the kick-out for open shots on the perimeter. And, with a slew of the finest marksmen the ACC has to offer dancing around our perimeter at any given time, it is a competitive advantage that we should try to maximize as much as possible. We still are going to get a lot of good three-point opportunities any time we play even without Brian Zoubek patrolling the paint, but we could get even better looks if our bigs began to place an added emphasis on the inside-out game. Aside from a lay-up or jam, the best shot in basketball is an offensive rebound cast out for an unobstructed three.

Enter Andre Dawkins. Watch how many times he will be left standing alone on the perimeter tonight, flapping his arms like a pterodactyl, while one of our bigs (or even penetrating guards) fails to even acknowledge he's alive, and I bet it will surprise you. Or maybe it won't. It doesn't me. As I said, however, since the UNC game, we seem to be improving in this area. At least somewhat.

This drives me crazy as well but I see it happen more with Rivers than our bigs. At least 3 times a game, Rivers will go to the rack and draw 2 or 3 defenders and Andre will be wide open in the corner or wing but Rivers attempts a tough layup. Now in Rivers defense, he usualy gets hacked and doesnt get the call but still Id like to see Andre get more shots. Once Rivers figures this part of his game out as he seems to be, Duke will be hard to guard because no team can keep Rivers out of the lane.

[Kedsy]

We need them on the court, out of foul trouble for a myriad of game situations!

...

None of this is available if early foul trouble evidences itself with the bigs!
Big key is, if both the Plum's can stay in a defensive stance, be in position to play defense with their feet and head, it will minimize the situations where there is a tendency to reach, poke, lunge for a unnecessary foul/s!
It will make them available when they need to play tough on the inside w/o the handicap of previous unnecessary fouls!

In fairness to Mason and Miles (especially Mason), the Plumlees really haven't been in that much foul trouble this season. Mason only averages 2.4 fouls per game (3.3 per 40 minutes), and Miles 2.1 fouls per game (4.5 per 40 minutes). Ryan has committed 2.2 fouls per game (3.5 per 40 minutes).

Yes, they still commit the occasional needless foul and, yes, Mason and Ryan each had 4 fouls against FSU last time (Miles only had 1), but on the whole it has been a rare occasion when our bigs couldn't stay on the court because of foul trouble.

[91devil]

Is tonight's game the biggest (i.e most important / most hyped) regular season game for Florida State since they entered the conference?

[MChambers]

Yes. Do you realize that I was not being serious? Those are just the facetious remarks I hysterically scream at my television when either Mason or Miles decides to perform The Skyhook over a flashmob of defenders.

While both have improved their inside scoring games considerably, namely Mason, I think they both underwhelmingly utilize the kick-out for open shots on the perimeter. And, with a slew of the finest marksmen the ACC has to offer dancing around our perimeter at any given time, it is a competitive advantage that we should try to maximize as much as possible. We still are going to get a lot of good three-point opportunities any time we play even without Brian Zoubek patrolling the paint, but we could get even better looks if our bigs began to place an added emphasis on the inside-out game. Aside from a lay-up or jam, the best shot in basketball is an offensive rebound cast out for an unobstructed three.

Enter Andre Dawkins. Watch how many times he will be left standing alone on the perimeter tonight, flapping his arms like a pterodactyl, while one of our bigs (or even penetrating guards) fails to even acknowledge he's alive, and I bet it will surprise you. Or maybe it won't. It doesn't me. As I said, however, since the UNC game, we seem to be improving in this area. At least somewhat.
I knew you were not being serious, but I thought it was an awesome feat, comparing a single player to both George Mikan and George Gervin.

Mason was pretty good at hitting Andre with passes from the interior last year. I suspect the renewed focus on low post scoring has caused him to sometimes go to the basket at all costs.

[jimsumner]

FWIW, no predictions -- I am terrible at predictions.

But while I wouldn't hazard a guess to whether Duke wins or loses, I'd bet my car that the Blue Devils come out paying hard and focused (somerthing that don't always do this year). As DBR noted on the front page, this is the kind of game K lives for.

The hardest thing to guess is how well FSU will play. Yeah, they'll play hard and they'll play good defense, but they are the most erratic offensive team in college basketball. Sometimes they make everything (against UNC and us for example). Sometimes they can't make anything (at home against Clemson and Va Tech; on the road at BC). How well FSU shoots will determine whether this is a classic or a stinker.

One additional thought ... if Duke wins tonight, I expect them to come out lackadaisical and unfocused again Saturday against Virginia Tech at home. Probably not enough to cost them the game, but to make it more of a struggle that it should be. If Duke loses tonight, I don't anticipate the same problem.

Agree about the offensive inconsistency. This is a team that has failed to hit the 50-point mark three times this season. Getting Miller back seems to have helped. Still, they scored 48 points against VT last week. And won. That's not easy to do.

If this game really does have 141 total points, I like Duke's chances.

BTW, the FSU-Clemson game was at Clemson.

[OldPhiKap]

Is tonight's game the biggest (i.e most important / most hyped) regular season game for Florida State since they entered the conference?

Probably. They won the Metro (regular season and tournament) in the years leading up to joining the conference but have never won the ACC regular season title or the Conference (tournament) championship. After us, they go to Miami and UVa before hosting Clemson to finish out.

FSU has played higher-ranked teams before (us included) but I don't think they've been this far into the season with a tie for the lead in the conference if they win. Against another team that stays in the tie if THEY win.

Should be a doozy.

[Wander]

One additional thought ... if Duke wins tonight, I expect them to come out lackadaisical and unfocused again Saturday against Virginia Tech at home. Probably not enough to cost them the game, but to make it more of a struggle that it should be. If Duke loses tonight, I don't anticipate the same problem.

Another if-this-outcome-happens thought: if Duke loses tonight, then FSU chokes at Miami, scores like 6 total points against UVA, and Duke beats UNC to win the ACC regular season anyway.

[Bob Green]

Enter Andre Dawkins. Watch how many times he will be left standing alone on the perimeter tonight, flapping his arms like a pterodactyl, while one of our bigs (or even penetrating guards) fails to even acknowledge he's alive, and I bet it will surprise you. Or maybe it won't. It doesn't me. As I said, however, since the UNC game, we seem to be improving in this area. At least somewhat.

I agree with your thoughts on Dawkins. He is 2nd in the ACC in 3 PT FG% at .407 and tied for 3rd in 3 PT FG's Made with 59, yet at times his teammates seem reluctant to pass him the ball. It's confusing and frustrating as I'd like to see Dawkins on the receiving end of more kickouts. Of course, in the spirit of full disclosure and fairness, I'd also like to see Dawkins working harder to get open by moving without the ball and coming off screens.

[Cameron]

I knew you were not being serious, but I thought it was an awesome feat, comparing a single player to both George Mikan and George Gervin.

Mason was pretty good at hitting Andre with passes from the interior last year. I suspect the renewed focus on low post scoring has caused him to sometimes go to the basket at all costs.

Haha, gotcha. Yeah, I imagine not many players in the history of the game have been been awarded that particular distinction. I guess it'd kind of be like the opposite of comparing a player to both Michael Olowokandi and Fennis Dembo.


Mason was pretty good at hitting Andre with passes from the interior last year. I suspect the renewed focus on low post scoring has caused him to sometimes go to the basket at all costs.

That is a good point. Hopefully, Mason is able to arrive at a happy medium, where he can both showcase his newfound repertoire of interior moves as well as exploit his uncanny ability to steal offensive rebounds to provide Seth, Dre and Austin with open opportunities.

[BluDvlsN1]

In fairness to Mason and Miles (especially Mason), the Plumlees really haven't been in that much foul trouble this season. Mason only averages 2.4 fouls per game (3.3 per 40 minutes), and Miles 2.1 fouls per game (4.5 per 40 minutes). Ryan has committed 2.2 fouls per game (3.5 per 40 minutes).

Yes, they still commit the occasional needless foul and, yes, Mason and Ryan each had 4 fouls against FSU last time (Miles only had 1), but on the whole it has been a rare occasion when our bigs couldn't stay on the court because of foul trouble.

Hope I wasn't being unfair, wasn't my intention, cause they're good guys!

What I was attempting to point out was, Some of it is the timing of the fouls and their ability to be on the floor at a given time!
i.e. a couple of early 1st half fouls that do two things, alter minutes and change a mindset of what they can do inside without compounding the situation! Both situations affect the game!
While the averages certainly point out the whole, it's the impact on the incremental at times that is important to the flow of the game!

Bottom line, we need em when we need em! Which is pretty much, always!

But as always Kedsy, you do great analysis!

[Cameron]

This drives me crazy as well but I see it happen more with Rivers than our bigs. At least 3 times a game, Rivers will go to the rack and draw 2 or 3 defenders and Andre will be wide open in the corner or wing but Rivers attempts a tough layup. Now in Rivers defense, he usualy gets hacked and doesnt get the call but still Id like to see Andre get more shots. Once Rivers figures this part of his game out as he seems to be, Duke will be hard to guard because no team can keep Rivers out of the lane.

Agreed. Chris Duhon was the master at this. He could stop on a dime, mid-air and without looking, and find a pair of open hands waiting 25 feet from the basket. He could also stop and drop one from 25 feet, which is what made him so dangerous as a penetrator. In that sense, he was virtually unguardable. Now Duhon was obviously also a point guard -- I believe he's in the top 15 all-time in NCAA assists -- but, in having the same instinctive driving ability as Duhon, Rivers could certainly add that particular facet to his game and it would make him only that much more effective.

Ah, Chris Duhon. My favorite for all-time. Really miss him.


I agree with your thoughts on Dawkins. He is 2nd in the ACC in 3 PT FG% at .407 and tied for 3rd in 3 PT FG's Made with 59, yet at times his teammates seem reluctant to pass him the ball. It's confusing and frustrating as I'd like to see Dawkins on the receiving end of more kickouts. Of course, in the spirit of full disclosure and fairness, I'd also like to see Dawkins working harder to get open by moving without the ball and coming off screens.

As much as I love Dre, and you'd be hard pressed to find a more ardent supporter, I've thought this often as well. There are moments, lulls have you, where Dawkins, for as spectacularly pulsating as his game can be, is simply silent. Like he's not even there. It'd be interesting to watch more closely, to see if these lulls of inactivity tend to happen more often later in the game, after he's fallen tired of working so hard to break through a series of defensive walls intended to stop him only to rarely receive any type of reward. Because, at least from my perspective, there are times when Andre displays the artistry of Reggie Miller when moving without the ball. He's quite good at it. So good, in fact, that he still manages to make over two 3-point shots per game, despite the fact that many believe he isn't getting nearly enough looks.

[Duvall]

Another if-this-outcome-happens thought: if Duke loses tonight, then FSU chokes at Miami, scores like 6 total points against UVA, and Duke beats UNC to win the ACC regular season anyway.

Would that be a win or a loss?

[Wander]

Would that be a win or a loss?

Ha! Well played.

[UrinalCake]

Enter Andre Dawkins. Watch how many times he will be left standing alone on the perimeter tonight, flapping his arms like a pterodactyl, while one of our bigs (or even penetrating guards) fails to even acknowledge he's alive, and I bet it will surprise you.

Well you could also watch how many times Mason has both feet in the paint with his man sealed off, begging for the ball, while the guard ignores him and then jacks up a three. Ball movement is not one of our strong suits, but it's hard for me to fault the bigs when they get so few touches.

[Cameron]

Well you could also watch how many times Mason has both feet in the paint with his man sealed off, begging for the ball, while the guard ignores him and then jacks up a three. Ball movement is not one of our strong suits, but it's hard for me to fault the bigs when they get so few touches.

Fair point. As more of a guard-flavored fan of the game (being six-foot and all), I often tend to focus on our perimeter more than I maybe do other areas. Somewhere, there has to be balance. Hopefully we find it.

[Kedsy]

Agreed. Chris Duhon was the master at this. He could stop on a dime, mid-air and without looking, and find a pair of open hands waiting 25 feet from the basket. He could also stop and drop one from 25 feet, which is what made him so dangerous as a penetrator. In that sense, he was virtually unguardable.

I was a Duhon fan during his time at Duke, but if he stopped and put one up from 25 feet, I cringed. He was a 32% career shooter at Duke from 3-point range, and his percentage went down the more 3-pointers he attempted (his most attempts were his junior year when he shot only 27% from three). So, in that sense, if you could force him to take an outside jumper, he was very guardable.


As much as I love Dre, and you'd be hard pressed to find a more ardent supporter, I've thought this often as well. There are moments, lulls have you, where Dawkins, for as spectacularly pulsating as his game can be, is simply silent. Like he's not even there. It'd be interesting to watch more closely, to see if these lulls of inactivity tend to happen more often later in the game, after he's fallen tired of working so hard to break through a series of defensive walls intended to stop him only to rarely receive any type of reward. Because, at least from my perspective, there are times when Andre displays the artistry of Reggie Miller when moving without the ball. He's quite good at it. So good, in fact, that he still manages to make over two 3-point shots per game, despite the fact that many believe he isn't getting nearly enough looks.

I think you've hit it on the head. If Andre works to get open a few times and doesn't get fed, he sometimes appears to stop trying to get open.

[subzero02]

Well you could also watch how many times Mason has both feet in the paint with his man sealed off, begging for the ball, while the guard ignores him and then jacks up a three. Ball movement is not one of our strong suits, but it's hard for me to fault the bigs when they get so few touches.

This isn't just true for our team, it's a symptom throughout college basketball. I probably would've come to blows with our guards by now if I established great inside position as often as Mason and did not consistently receive the ball. If we execute the inside out game effectively we can reach the final four; everything will open up for Austin, Andre and Seth.

[WakeDevil]

Will I be able to watch this on ESPN3 after it's over? I have a conflict.

[Cameron]

I was a Duhon fan during his time at Duke, but if he stopped and put one up from 25 feet, I cringed. He was a 32% career shooter at Duke from 3-point range, and his percentage went down the more 3-pointers he attempted (his most attempts were his junior year when he shot only 27% from three). So, in that sense, if you could force him to take an outside jumper, he was very guardable.

I was referring more to his first two years in Durham. Duhon's percentages from three as a freshman and sophomore (36% and 34%, respectively) were above his career average, and he made almost 100 triples in those initial two seasons (98). If you go back and watch some of those games, Duhon (along with Jason, Mike and Shane) almost never shot a three from the location of the line. Usually, Duhon was more like three or sometimes four steps behind it. This obviously adds a degree of difficulty to the shot, thus causing for lower overall percentages. But because he had that ability to just destroy you when hot, the defenses (at least those first two years) had to extend their pressure to try and prevent it.

There was a game against Wake in Cameron during his sophomore season that I'll never forget in which Duhon came down the court and just nonchalantly let one fly from almost midway in-between the arc and half-court. It was at the bare minimum a 30-footer. Skip Prosser called a timeout before the ball even hit the nylon and the crowd just lost it. We were so damn good that year it's almost too depressing to think about.

Of course, as you said, Duhon's junior and senior seasons, while producing a few really good shooting nights here and there, left something to be desired. He tried that same Wake pull-up three in a game in Cameron against Georgetown as a junior, when he was shooting something like 18 percent from three at that juncture in the season, and it narrowly grazed the bottom of the rim. Dick Vitale then mumbled something about how he wasn't sure a half-court prayer shot is exactly what Coach K had in mind there.

[sagegrouse]

I was referring more to his first two years in Durham. Duhon's percentages from three as a freshman and sophomore (36% and 34%, respectively) were above his career average, and he made almost 100 triples in those initial two seasons (98). If you go back and watch some of those games, Duhon (along with Jason, Mike and Shane) almost never shot a three from the location of the line. Usually, Duhon was more like three or sometimes four steps behind it. This obviously adds a degree of difficulty to the shot, thus causing for lower overall percentages. But because he had that ability to just destroy you when hot, the defenses (at least those first two years) had to extend their pressure to try and prevent it.

There was a game against Wake in Cameron during his sophomore season that I'll never forget in which Duhon came down the court and just nonchalantly let one fly from almost midway in-between the arc and half-court. It was at the bare minimum a 35-footer. Skip Prosser called a timeout before the ball even hit the nylon and the crowd just lost it. We were do damn good that year it's almost too depressing to think about.

Of course, as you said, Duhon's junior and senior seasons, while producing a few really good shooting nights here and there, left something to be desired. He tried that same Wake pull-up three in a game in Cameron against Georgetown as a junior, when he was shooting something like 18 percent from three at that juncture in the season, and it scarcily grazed the bottom of the rim. Dick Vitale then mumbled something about how he wasn't sure a half-court prayer shot is exactly what Coach K had in mind there.

It's a painful memory, but Duhon's last shot for Duke went in -- from halfcourt.

sage

[Cameron]

It's a painful memory, but Duhon's last shot for Duke went in -- from halfcourt.

sage

And it brought me to the cusp of tears. I was at a friend's house, where the ratio of people not cheering for Duke was eight to one (this, of course, was before I began watching games by myself, in complete seclusion) and I'll never forget what I said after Duhon's final shot went in: "Count it! Count it!"

In the middle of a full-on delusion, one of my friends then politely interrupted me and said, "You still need one more point."

That was a rough night.

[dukebballcamper90-91]

[/B]

This drives me crazy as well but I see it happen more with Rivers than our bigs. At least 3 times a game, Rivers will go to the rack and draw 2 or 3 defenders and Andre will be wide open in the corner or wing but Rivers attempts a tough layup. Now in Rivers defense, he usualy gets hacked and doesnt get the call but still Id like to see Andre get more shots. Once Rivers figures this part of his game out as he seems to be, Duke will be hard to guard because no team can keep Rivers out of the lane.

I just told a fellow devil this morning that if Austin dishes just 2 of those to Dre, just 2, that's 6 pts vs 0.

[dukebballcamper90-91]

I think the key for us tonight is the play of Kelly. If Kelly plays well we will win. In the 4 games we have lost, Kelly has a total of 23 pts.
Let's Go Kelly.

[superdave]

I think the key for us tonight is the play of Kelly. If Kelly plays well we will win. In the 4 games we have lost, Kelly has a total of 23 pts.
Let's Go Kelly.

In our 4 losses this year, Dawkins has 17 points.

[phaedrus]

I think the key for us tonight is the play of Kelly. If Kelly plays well we will win. In the 4 games we have lost, Kelly has a total of 23 pts.
Let's Go Kelly.


In our 4 losses this year, Dawkins has 17 points.

Got you both beat. Zafirovski has 0.

[gep]

Will I be able to watch this on ESPN3 after it's over? I have a conflict.

That is my plan. The game is on ESPN3, and games that are on ESPN3 are usually available for replay about 1 hour after the game, and is available up to 30 days. GO DUKE!!!

[-jk]

Got you both beat. Zafirovski has 0.

If Zafirovski gets 10 points, we'll win. Bank on it. ;)

-jk

[CDu]

There was a game against Wake in Cameron during his sophomore season that I'll never forget in which Duhon came down the court and just nonchalantly let one fly from almost midway in-between the arc and half-court. It was at the bare minimum a 35-footer.

Hate to be "that guy" but this has always been a pet peeve of mine with announcers exaggerating the distance of a shot attempt. The college line in Duhon's day was 19'9" from the center of the basket. The half court line is 41'9" from the center of the basket (at center court). So the midpoint would range from about 30 feet (straight on) to about 34 feet (toward the either wing). So unless he was beyond the midpoint, I'm guessing he was nowhere near 35 feet. I do remember several shots he took in the 25-30 foot range. But I don't remember any that I recall being even clearly 30+ feet, let alone 35 feet.

Okay, dorkiness/nitpickiness over from me. I agree with the rest. Just couldn't let that slide. Sorry.

[riverside6]

Live tempo-based stats for the game here, starters posted...

http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=10583

[Cameron]

Hate to be "that guy" but this has always been a pet peeve of mine with announcers exaggerating the distance of a shot attempt. The college line in Duhon's day was 19'9" from the center of the basket. The half court line is 41'9" from the center of the basket (at center court). So the midpoint would range from about 30 feet (straight on) to about 34 feet (toward the either wing). So unless he was beyond the midpoint, I'm guessing he was nowhere near 35 feet. I do remember several shots he took in the 25-30 foot range. But I don't remember any that I recall being even clearly 30+ feet, let alone 35 feet.

Okay, dorkiness/nitpickiness over from me. I agree with the rest. Just couldn't let that slide. Sorry.

Haha, your being "that guy" is precisely why I went back right after pushing publish and edited my post to say 30 feet instead of 35 feet. I'm just not sure how you ended up replying to the original, unedited post. I'm with you on being irked when people exaggerate the distance of shots, but, as an extreme enthusiast of the Reggie Miller game, I always seem to do it nonetheless. When retelling this anecdote in 10 years, it will probably turn out that Chris banked the shot in off of Grant Hill's jersey. :D

Truth be told, Duhon's shot against Wake was probably somewhere between 26 and 30 feet deep. I watch that game pretty frequently to this day -- it's one of my favorites because both Chris and Jason had multiple in-the-gym-range type of plays -- and it was beyond even J.J. land. Chris had a knack for those types of crowd-erupting plays and, early on in his career, could shoot with the best of them.

[superdave]

I told my girlfriend of a couple of months I could not hang out tonight because of this game. She gave me a small guilt trip but this is a big game. C'mon Devils!

[iragsdale]

I'm here on business & staying in the Uptown area - does anybody have a good suggestions for where I might find a Duke crowd?

[wgl1228]

Great start. Playing smart not forcing anything and going after boards.

[dairedevil]

Watching the replay, all I could think was that if using your backside to create room is a foul, why didn't Hansbro foul out more?

[wgl1228]

I spoke too soon. When FSU started to score we got sloppy. Gotta come out strong the guys spoke about it this week now go do it.

[CDu]

Haha, your being "that guy" is precisely why I went back right after pushing publish and edited my post to say 30 feet instead of 35 feet. I'm just not sure how you ended up replying to the original, unedited post. I'm with you on being irked when people exaggerate the distance of shots, but, as an extreme enthusiast of the Reggie Miller game, I always seem to do it nonetheless. When retelling this anecdote in 10 years, it will probably turn out that Chris banked the shot in off of Grant Hill's jersey. :D

Truth be told, Duhon's shot against Wake was probably somewhere between 26 and 30 feet deep. I watch that game pretty frequently to this day -- it's one of my favorites because both Chris and Jason had multiple in-the-gym-range type of plays -- and it was beyond even J.J. land. Chris had a knack for those types of crowd-erupting plays and, early on in his career, could shoot with the best of them.

Doh! Serves me right for starting a post, pausing, then coming back later.

I was at Duke when Duhon was there. Saw him in pickup games just raining 3s. Ridiculous. He was a better shooter than his results would have suggested.

[dukebballcamper90-91]

I just told a fellow devil this morning that if Austin dishes just 2 of those to Dre, just 2, that's 6 pts vs 0.

austin just dished for a 3 from dre

[dukebballcamper90-91]

and another 3 from Dre

[dukebballcamper90-91]

They just called a blocking foul on Miles.....WOW

[CoachJ10]

ESPN has missed a couple of plays with some shoddy camera work.

[wgl1228]

A couple of make-up calls for FSU for not calling curry travel. I can't stand it. Miles was in place.

[sporthenry]

Their big men are playing aggressive (in Dickie V's words) yet Gibson and James don't have a foul. Meanwhile, Mason has 3 fouls, 2 of which were pretty b/s, Miles and Kelly both have pretty weak fouls as well. I guess playing aggressive and fouling is an extremely fine line.

[_Gary]

Tough calls going on in this one. At this rate our front line will be fouled out by halftime.

[wgl1228]

Not fair down low by the refs.

[CoachJ10]

Their big men are playing aggressive (in Dickie V's words) yet Gibson and James don't have a foul. Meanwhile, Mason has 3 fouls, 2 of which were pretty b/s, Miles and Kelly both have pretty weak fouls as well. I guess playing aggressive and fouling is an extremely fine line.

Too bad Len Elmore is not calling the game...I am sure he would love the way the game is being called against the Duke bigs by Big Game Teddy V.

[CDu]

A couple of make-up calls for FSU for not calling curry travel. I can't stand it. Miles was in place.

No he wasn't. He was leaning to his right to hit White. It was a blocking foul. He got his feet set, but he had to lean in from there.

[sporthenry]

Too bad Len Elmore is not calling the game...I am sure he would love the way the game is being called against the Duke bigs by Big Game Teddy V.

Yeah, that would be all we need. Maybe K asks for Teddy V and Karl Hess to make us stronger come March but is there really nobody else? Does the ACC only employ two sets of refs or something. I find it hard to believe K can't petition to keep these guys as far away as possible. Teddy's ability to get caught up in games is ridiculous.

[sporthenry]

No he wasn't. He was leaning to his right to hit White. It was a blocking foul. He got his feet set, but he had to lean in from there.

But you still have Dre's mystery foul (I'm sure he did something which is why he got benched but I'm sure it was in retaliation), Miles tip out, Mason's post move, Mason's charge where he pulled up and was going back outside, etc.

[J4Kop99]

This is beautiful. Miles looking more and more like Z. It's very weird if I do say so myself. Those tip-back offensive rebounds are huge for us.

[ice-9]

Anyone know how I can watch this online? :(

[CoachJ10]

What are the odds that Dell or Doc gets ejected by Teddy V for "verbally reminding him" during the game that his reffing tonight is incredibly inconsistent at the charitable end and just down right awful on the truthful end.

[_Gary]

No he wasn't. He was leaning to his right to hit White. It was a blocking foul. He got his feet set, but he had to lean in from there.

Agreed on that one. But there's no doubt that both Miles and Mason have both been victims of very questionable whistles. This is magnified all the more by the ultra aggressive play of FSU on both ends of the court which has been completely overlooked by the officials. I don't expect this type of one-sided officiating to continue in the 2nd half (it rarely does), but *if* it were to happen and all three Duke bigs fouled out I'd bet the house Coach K would say something about it in the presser. And he never does that. But make no mistake, that first half was brutal in terms of the foul calls against our bigs versus the no-calls against their bigs. I'm just hoping the 2nd half is called evenly. That's all I'm interested in. FSU is a great team and if they beat us fair and square then fine. But if we see another '04 UConn situation I'll be disappointed. And right now with Miles and Mason having 3, and Ryan with 2, it's a distinct possibility.

[Utley]

I expected the team to show up and they did. Feels like we should be up more. Hope the foul trouble doesn't come to bite us. Proud of the energy and fight.

[Papa John]

1st half, our bigs = 9 fouls... Their bigs = 1 foul... A foul is a foul, so if you whistle it on one end of the floor, you need to whistle it on the other... Or, if you want to swallow the whistle, then do it on both ends of the floor... This is a tad ridiculous. At this rate, we'll be finishing the game with 5 guards...

[superdave]

If all those fouls were actually fouls on Duke, Seth Curry got fouled as time expired at the half.

The ACC has an officiating problem. Swofford needs to remind these jackholes noone buys a ticket to see them.

We need to keep hitting the boards and attack the rim more. FSU will adjust to take away Dawkins. We need to use him as a decoy and get in the paint.

[Chris Randolph]

If Ted Valentine works a Duke game, it is a guarantee to get the shaft from the refs. Someone said in a earlier posts the differential in fouls between our big men and theirs. Baffles me that Duke bigs have 9 combined fouls to FSU 1. And FSU bigs are applauded for such 'physical play.' I guess they are the greatest defenders/rebounders without fouling ever. What a joke

Mason struggling a bit. Foul trouble or not he hasn't been a factor at all. Maybe he is letting the Academic All American award get to his head a bit :)

Overall, very good first half. Dawkins was huge obviously. Another positive: only 5 turnovers by Duke and I don't know if any them led to tranistion points for FSU

Going to be a nail biter in the second half, gotta find some more scoring because Andre won't go for 18 again. We must be able to score from the post in the 2nd half, if we try to live by the 3 we will die

[superdave]

Anyone know how I can watch this online? :(

Try Espn3 or one of those bootleg sites. Justintv maybe

[gcashwell]

But you still have Dre's mystery foul (I'm sure he did something which is why he got benched but I'm sure it was in retaliation), Miles tip out, Mason's post move, Mason's charge where he pulled up and was going back outside, etc.

I replayed the dre foul. He straight up pushed the guy in the back right in front oF the ref.

[gotoguy]

Kudos to Miles for excellent play. If we can keep the Brothers Plumlee on the floor for the whole second half are chances look good

[_Gary]

I replayed the dre foul. He straight up pushed the guy in the back right in front oF the ref.

Not sure of the timing of it, but at some point either just before that or just after that, either Cook or Thorton was absolutely thrown down by FSU's White (I believe after a made basket by the Seminoles). It was really blatant and in front of the refs and I couldn't believe it wasn't called. Anyone else see that one?

[Utley]

Kudos to Miles for excellent play. If we can keep the Brothers Plumlee on the floor for the whole second half are chances look good

Totally agree - he gave the critical early spark

[wgl1228]

Good half on the road. Questionable officiating regarding who is allowed to be more aggressive but overall strong play from Duke. We absolutely cannot let them come out and get back in this thing.

[Cameron]

I know you could say this about any one of our guys on a given night -- Austin or Seth in particular -- but, when Andre's in a rhythm, there aren't that many teams who can touch us. I'm now convinced, he's Larry Bird disguised as God.

What a half, Andre. All Day.

[CoachJ10]

If all those fouls were actually fouls on Duke, Seth Curry got fouled as time expired at the half.

The ACC has an officiating problem. Swofford needs to remind these jackholes noone buys a ticket to see them.

We need to keep hitting the boards and attack the rim more. FSU will adjust to take away Dawkins. We need to use him as a decoy and get in the paint.

The first step to dealing with a problem is acknowledging that it exists. There seems to be no indication that the ACC powers-that-be admit that the poor refs they currently have in their rotation reflects poorly on the quality of basketball that the ACC is known for.

[CoachJ10]

Not sure of the timing of it, but at some point either just before that or just after that, either Cook or Thorton was absolutely thrown down by FSU's White (I believe after a made basket by the Seminoles). It was really blatant and in front of the refs and I couldn't believe it wasn't called. Anyone else see that one?

There were only 3 people that didn't "see" that play...

[_Gary]

There were only 3 people that didn't "see" that play...

Well, there were 3 on the court that didn't see it. But there must have been some in the ESPN "truck" or the announcing booth too because there was no mention of it, nor a replay. Yet it seemed V-E-R-Y obvious to me.

[wgl1228]

I'm sorry but the foul calls have not been equal.

[ice-9]

Try Espn3 or one of those bootleg sites. Justintv maybe

Everyone on Justintv is showing the Knicks-Miami game!

[dairedevil]

I'm sorry but the foul calls have not been equal.

F$U has gotten 3 fouls in the span of about 30 seconds...catch up time?

[FerryFor50]

Not able to watch the game but can someone explain to me how all of our bigs are in foul trouble while none of theirs are? Aren't they known as a physical team?

[SMO]

Someone look at the trip on Rivers that went uncalled and tell me these guys are calling an honest game. It is not happening.

[wgl1228]

That was not a foul whatsoever on Dawkins.

[_Gary]

Fouls are really starting to mount up. This is going to be a very ugly 2nd half the rest of the way, imho.

[wgl1228]

We have got to get a stop and respond here. This is one of those crucial points.

[Chris Randolph]

Someone look at the trip on Rivers that went uncalled and tell me these guys are calling an honest game. It is not happening.

And the trip happened 3 feet in front of the official, he saw it no doubt. Valentine has always had it out for Coach K, it is well known across college basketball. If Duke is going to win this game, Mason must come through in the last 10 minutes with some kind of impactful contribution

[Duke76]

Don't usually comment on quality of refs but this is absolutely horrible....coach K has been unusually reserved about it...must know it won't work against valentine....reverse psychology

[grounds0405]

No call when snaer stepped rivers' ankle or tyler diving for the loose ball?

But I have faith in the refs (esp. T-valentine); they'll find a way to make a worse call

[1 24 90]

Can we please ask the playcaller to analyze this game? Thornton gets a foul for chasing a ball out of bounds but FSU doesn't get one for what just happened to Austin? UGH

[mndukie]

I really don't care for complaining about officiating.....BUT how can TT get called for diving for a loose ball and Rivers gets manhandled in the same fashion and NO CALL????

I challenge anyone who complains that we always get favorable calls.

[FerryFor50]

This keeps up, G is going to get some emergency playing time. This feels like that Wake Forest debacle several years back where all starters fouled out. Who was officiating that one?

[wgl1228]

Rivers had the inside track on the ball there. No foul?

[_Gary]

Classy move by my fellow Floridians (although I live nowhere near Tallahassee). :rolleyes:

[gotoguy]

On the Rivers takedown in the corner?

[CBDUKE]

They just did. Come up with a worse call that is.

[Duke76]

No call when snaer stepped rivers' ankle or tyler diving for the loose ball?

But I have faith in the refs (esp. T-valentine); they'll find a way to make a worse call


This is victory is gonna be that much sweeter because of it!!!!

[SMO]

2 trips that injured Rivers. Neither called fouls. This crew is a disgrace.

[davekay1971]

I hope my ears were deceiving me, but my wife heard the same thing I did. Were those boos from the FSU crowd when Rivers got up and walked off under his own power?!

Hate seeing Rivers injured in the annual tackle football game at Tallahassee. Hope he isn't injured in any significant way.

[1 24 90]

This is victory is gonna be that much sweeter because of it!!!!

It darn well better be a victory or I'm going to be fuming.

[gotoguy]

Its like rollerball out there!!

[_Gary]

I hope my ears were deceiving me, but my wife heard the same thing I did. Were those boos from the FSU crowd when Rivers got up and walked off under his own power?!

Yes it was. That was what I was sarcastically referring to in my last post.

[wgl1228]

Goal tending anyone?

[_Gary]

We need a bucket coming out of this timeout - in the worst way.

[CoachJ10]

Some defensive lapses by the Blue Devils. Tighten up fellas.

[1 24 90]

Did the refs really try to call a foul on Dawkins when he wasn't even in the game? Unreal.

[Dukehky]

This is the worst game of Mason's life. He looks completely lost. It is simply atrocious. How we're winning, I just don't know, but we need Seth to put up a few more points than just 2 to pull this one out.

[MartyClark]

I hate to whine but... The officiating really seems poor. Austin gets hammered and no foul. We touch someone and its a foul.

[Lulu]

I don't think I've posted all year but had to log in to see if everyone else was seeing the same horribly officiated game I'm watching... Looks like we're all watching the same game.

[mndukie]

Some defensive lapses by the Blue Devils. Tighten up fellas.

Exactly my thoughts, Mason doubling for a block leaving his man open and Dawkins inexplicably leaving Snaer all alone.

[CoachJ10]

All right...close this out, Devils. Play smart. Play strong.

[Utley]

What a gritty effort

[_Gary]

*If* Duke finds a way to win this game I'll consider it their signature win up to this point in the season. I know the UNC win was an incredible and fun thing, but this is a real gut check type game, where it seems like it's us against the world. This would be absolutely huge if we can hang on.

[superdave]

Ted Valentine deserves to be in a new line of work. I openly question the character of a man who showboats like that. I really do not think the ACC is well served with him doing games. The conference needs to take a look at itself. Between Valentine and Hess, this is openly disgraceful.

[pfrduke]

That may not have been the smartest decision by Miles right there (and coming after such a nice little reverse, too).

[1 24 90]

Please hit foul shots in the last minute!!!

[pfrduke]

Also, it's amazing how difficult it's been for us to rebound a missed free throw.

[davekay1971]

I'm going to make a copy of this game and force every person who tells me at any point in the future that "Duke gets all the calls" to watch it.

[1999ballboy]

Miles hasn't been playing defense with his hands up all game, and I'm not sure why. Early this season (and late last season) his shot blocking stats improved so much, but now he's going for the flop every time. The refs didn't buy it in the first half and it's no wonder they didn't buy it now.

[Buckeye Devil]

Duke will win in spite of the idiocy of Ted Valentine. I hate him refereeing any game.

[mndukie]

Kudos to this team staying persistent in a tough environment...a really nice win!

[CoachJ10]

Ted Valentine deserves to be in a new line of work. I openly question the character of a man who showboats like that. I really do not think the ACC is well served with him doing games. The conference needs to take a look at itself. Between Valentine and Hess, this is openly disgraceful.

Amen.

[MartyClark]

Big time steal by Austin. Big time, gritty win.

[gotoguy]

Im cautiously optimistic

[wgl1228]

Great job. Way to play tough and respond to a tough team.

[FerryFor50]

Some Carolina fans on Facebook were calling out Rivers for "playing up" his ankle injury. So I said he possesses the recovery powers of Harrison Barnes. They failed to understand the comparison.

[superdave]

I beat the crap out of my couch tonight and used a lot of rude words. Luckily I was at home alone.

This game was one where you have to win two-on-one. Duke vs FSU/Refs.

Disgraceful. And I'm not usually one to whine.