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View Full Version : The Official Doug Gottlieb Has Lost It Vigil



burnspbesq
02-16-2012, 07:18 PM
Zack Rosen is a better NBA prospect than Austin Rivers.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7574960/college-hoops-doug-gottlieb-latest-nba-draft-big-board

Now we know that Linsanity has gone too far.

G man
02-16-2012, 07:45 PM
I was going to start this thread if you had not. I hate the whole this guy likes to hate on Duke it makes us sound like a bunch of cry babies, but this dude is the definition of a hater. Austin and Mason are better than a bunch of dudes on this list. All I can say is wow what a d bag.

diveonthefloor
02-16-2012, 08:37 PM
OK, now chant with me:

VISA....mastercard.....VISA......mastercard
(continued until the target begins to cry.)

BD80
02-16-2012, 10:41 PM
Exactly when did Gottlieb ever have "it" that he has now totally lost?

jipops
02-16-2012, 10:47 PM
I have a hard time getting hot and bothered by some blowhard's opinion's on draft prospects.

quakerdevil11
02-16-2012, 11:30 PM
The kid can play...

http://www.pennathletics.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=1700&ATCLID=205377778

Bluedog
02-16-2012, 11:33 PM
Am I the only Duke fan on the planet that almost actually likes Gottlieb? I often disagree with him and he has some digs at Duke, but he tells it like he sees it. I guess it's a style over substance thing, and I prefer his style over other ESPN guys like Len Elmore, Hubert Davis, etc. any day of the week. Having said that, I have no idea as to if Zack Rosen is a better NBA prospect than Austin as I've barely seen him play. Seems like Chad Forde is more in tune with what the NBA is looking for than Gottlieb, in my experience. DraftExpress is also pretty solid - they have Austin at 18 right now. I don't see Rosen at all there.

burnspbesq
02-16-2012, 11:34 PM
The kid can play...

No one disputes that. First-team all-ivy for sure. But a first-round pick?

Greg_Newton
02-16-2012, 11:56 PM
Doug Gottlieb @GottliebShow Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Here it comes,threes,floorslapping,suspect charge/block calls---

Doug Gottlieb @GottliebShow Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
and now it is complete, 3s,floorslaps,suspect charge/block calls

Doug Gottlieb @GottliebShow Close
@tychamp22 Why they overhedged in a 1 point game--BS call,but why do it?

Doug Gottlieb @GottliebShow Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
We all agree that NC State loss was a worse gag than VTech? Stepping OOB?

Duvall
02-16-2012, 11:57 PM
Doug Gottlieb @GottliebShow Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Here it comes,threes,floorslapping,suspect charge/block calls---

Doug Gottlieb @GottliebShow Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
and now it is complete, 3s,floorslaps,suspect charge/block calls

Doug Gottlieb @GottliebShow Close
@tychamp22 Why they overhedged in a 1 point game--BS call,but why do it?

Doug Gottlieb @GottliebShow Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
We all agree that NC State loss was a worse gag than VTech? Stepping OOB?

It's a living.

Bluedog
02-17-2012, 12:00 AM
Doug Gottlieb @GottliebShow Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Here it comes,threes,floorslapping,suspect charge/block calls---

Doug Gottlieb @GottliebShow Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
and now it is complete, 3s,floorslaps,suspect charge/block calls

Doug Gottlieb @GottliebShow Close
@tychamp22 Why they overhedged in a 1 point game--BS call,but why do it?

Doug Gottlieb @GottliebShow Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
We all agree that NC State loss was a worse gag than VTech? Stepping OOB?

Ok, maybe I rescind what I said above. That's pretty bad...

FerryFor50
02-17-2012, 12:12 AM
Doug Gottlieb @GottliebShow Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Here it comes,threes,floorslapping,suspect charge/block calls---

Doug Gottlieb @GottliebShow Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
and now it is complete, 3s,floorslaps,suspect charge/block calls

Doug Gottlieb @GottliebShow Close
@tychamp22 Why they overhedged in a 1 point game--BS call,but why do it?

Doug Gottlieb @GottliebShow Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
We all agree that NC State loss was a worse gag than VTech? Stepping OOB?

They don't even really slap the floor anymore... that's the funny part.

hurleyfor3
02-17-2012, 12:14 AM
Wow, at least when Stuart Scott gets a beat-down he mans up about it.

Orange&BlackSheep
02-17-2012, 12:25 AM
The kid can play...

http://www.pennathletics.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=1700&ATCLID=205377778

No one on Penn is ever any good. Just sayin'

Orange & Black Sheep

Exiled_Devil
02-17-2012, 12:25 AM
They don't even really slap the floor anymore... that's the funny part.

Austin slapped the floor when it was down to single digits. It was a beautiful thing.

FerryFor50
02-17-2012, 12:29 AM
Austin slapped the floor when it was down to single digits. It was a beautiful thing.

Missed that one... but overall it's not like it used to be. Which is why it's as played out to say as it is to say "Duke gets all the calls."

Stats just don't back it up. :)

Duvall
02-17-2012, 12:30 AM
Doug Gottlieb @GottliebShow Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Here it comes,threes,floorslapping,suspect charge/block calls---

Doug Gottlieb @GottliebShow Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
and now it is complete, 3s,floorslaps,suspect charge/block calls

Doug Gottlieb @GottliebShow Close
@tychamp22 Why they overhedged in a 1 point game--BS call,but why do it?

Doug Gottlieb @GottliebShow Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
We all agree that NC State loss was a worse gag than VTech? Stepping OOB?

Why he mad tho? (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1998-03-16/sports/9803160044_1_duke-blue-devils-kentucky-wildcats)

jipops
02-17-2012, 12:32 AM
Doug Gottlieb @GottliebShow Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Here it comes,threes,floorslapping,suspect charge/block calls---

Doug Gottlieb @GottliebShow Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
and now it is complete, 3s,floorslaps,suspect charge/block calls

Doug Gottlieb @GottliebShow Close
@tychamp22 Why they overhedged in a 1 point game--BS call,but why do it?

Doug Gottlieb @GottliebShow Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
We all agree that NC State loss was a worse gag than VTech? Stepping OOB?

How is it basketball analysts have jobs but don't actually know how to analyze basketball?

Olympic Fan
02-17-2012, 01:32 AM
The guy is a serious basketball idiot.

I still remember in 2010 , just before the Duke-Baylor game, he listed Duke's biggest weaklness as the fact that Kyle Singler could not defend. So in hte Final Four, Singler defends West Virginia star Da'Sean Butler and holds him to 10 points on 2-of-8 shooting. Two nights later, he defends Butler star Gordon Haywood and holds him to 12 points on 2-of-11 shooting.

Some insight, Doug ...

I still wonder if some of his Duke-hate stems from the fact that he grew up wanting to play for Duke (Bobby Hurley was his hero) but he couldn't get a scholarship offer from K?

throatybeard
02-17-2012, 09:02 AM
I can't think of another guy who so richly deserves having a freshman screw up (the credit card incident) held over his head in perpetuity.

RoyalBlue08
02-17-2012, 09:55 AM
The guy is a serious basketball idiot.

I still remember in 2010 , just before the Duke-Baylor game, he listed Duke's biggest weaklness as the fact that Kyle Singler could not defend. So in hte Final Four, Singler defends West Virginia star Da'Sean Butler and holds him to 10 points on 2-of-8 shooting. Two nights later, he defends Butler star Gordon Haywood and holds him to 12 points on 2-of-11 shooting.

Some insight, Doug ...

I still wonder if some of his Duke-hate stems from the fact that he grew up wanting to play for Duke (Bobby Hurley was his hero) but he couldn't get a scholarship offer from K?

In hindsight, another very good decision on K's part.

Ichabod Drain
02-17-2012, 10:50 AM
They don't even really slap the floor anymore... that's the funny part.

http://dukeblueplanet.smugmug.com/2011-12/Games/Duke-78-NC-State-73/21509031_TN7KnZ#!i=1714671401&k=VvRTqPx

mph
02-17-2012, 02:28 PM
This is the same guy who less than two weeks ago was on ESPN making the argument that Kansas/Missouri is the best rivalry in college basketball, not just this year, but historically. As evidence he offered that the roots of the rivalry go back to the pre-Civil War animosity between the two states.

For many analysts tasked with talking about one topic for a living, the temptation to say something different and clever can lead them to say some bizarrely stupid things. Gottlieb is the poster boy for this problem.

Billy Dat
02-17-2012, 03:04 PM
For many analysts tasked with talking about one topic for a living, the temptation to say something different and clever can lead them to say some bizarrely stupid things. Gottlieb is the poster boy for this problem.

I think this is a huge problem across the media landscape. I actually really like Gottlieb. I think he is smart and knows more about more teams across the land than the majority of announcers. I hate to single out JDubs, but the insight and analysis he provides, to me, is several grades below Gottlieb (same goes for Hubert Davis, Adrian Branch, etc.), and I attribute that to the fact the Gottlieb comes from a coaching family and grew up thinking and analyzing the game.

But, to your point, the modern media landscape has radically changed. A journalist or TV talking head's "brand" value is measured in new terms, such as number social media friends and followers. Vanilla opinions don't generate a following. When it's time for Gottlieb to re-up with ESPN, that following constitutes part of his negotiating leverage. That's not to say you shouldn't say what you believe, but it does seem to pay to be provocative - and Duke is one of the most polarizing and provocative college bball brands out there.

sagegrouse
02-17-2012, 05:46 PM
I think this is a huge problem across the media landscape. I actually really like Gottlieb. I think he is smart and knows more about more teams across the land than the majority of announcers. I hate to single out JDubs, but the insight and analysis he provides, to me, is several grades below Gottlieb (same goes for Hubert Davis, Adrian Branch, etc.), and I attribute that to the fact the Gottlieb comes from a coaching family and grew up thinking and analyzing the game.

But, to your point, the modern media landscape has radically changed. A journalist or TV talking head's "brand" value is measured in new terms, such as number social media friends and followers. Vanilla opinions don't generate a following. When it's time for Gottlieb to re-up with ESPN, that following constitutes part of his negotiating leverage. That's not to say you shouldn't say what you believe, but it does seem to pay to be provocative - and Duke is one of the most polarizing and provocative college bball brands out there.

I agree totally with your post. I would add one thing: Gottlieb appears to be on for three hours a day, five days a week. Is this true? He's gotta be sputtering total nonsense some of the time to have half a chance of filling all three hours.

sage

weezie
02-17-2012, 08:22 PM
All Doug G, all the time.... his own channel!:eek:

Devilsfan
02-17-2012, 09:19 PM
No real need for this thread as he never "had it". He should be a national spokesperson for Master Charge or Ethics in college sports.

weezie
02-17-2012, 10:08 PM
Or Discover Card.

Cameron
02-18-2012, 12:09 PM
I can't think of another guy who so richly deserves having a freshman screw up (the credit card incident) held over his head in perpetuity.

I wouldn't exactly classify that particular incident as a "freshman screw up." It was more the right of passage of a cat burglar.

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu194/CameronBlue22/identitytheft.jpg

Devilsfan
02-18-2012, 12:23 PM
But really it was only the first time he committed a felony type crime so let's forgive him and allow him to make hundreds of thousands of dollars where someone else committing the same crime from a poor upbringing and not able to attend a Notre Dame would most probably have been incarcerated.

throatybeard
02-18-2012, 01:53 PM
But really it was only the first time he committed a felony type crime so let's forgive him and allow him to make hundreds of thousands of dollars where someone else committing the same crime from a poor upbringing and not able to attend a Notre Dame would most probably have been incarcerated.

This is a good point.

burnspbesq
02-18-2012, 03:06 PM
This is a good point.

Perhaps, but it's irrelevant. Take it over to Firedoglake or Balloon-Juice.

Orange&BlackSheep
02-18-2012, 03:35 PM
But really it was only the first time he committed a felony type crime so let's forgive him and allow him to make hundreds of thousands of dollars where someone else committing the same crime from a poor upbringing and not able to attend a Notre Dame would most probably have been incarcerated.

He went to Okie St ...

Dukeface88
02-18-2012, 03:39 PM
He went to Okie St ...

He was at Notre Dame at the time of the credit card incident and transferred to Oklahoma State afterwards.

Jim3k
02-18-2012, 03:43 PM
Wiki has Gottliebs's academic history. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Gottlieb) He started at Notre Dame where the credit card misbehavior occurred. Was allowed to resign; attended community college for a while and then transferred to Oklahoma State.

greybeard
02-19-2012, 02:26 PM
Going into the final four, Singler had a badly sprained right wrist, there was great uncertainty about whether he would play at all, and that if he did, how effective he might be. Stating that Singler's defense (he definitely wasn't going to be shooting the ball) was an unremarkable insight, and it showed no anti Duke bias. As for the job that Sngler diod, it certainly surprised me whe K had Singler guard the much shorter, but highly skilled Butler. It turned out to be the story of the game--Singler didn't let the guy breathe on the outside, and gave him real trouble finishing on the bounce when he tried to take it to the basket not simply against Singler but also against what was clearly the most formidable interior defense in the country. In fact, Butler broke his damn leg trying to maneuver around Zoubek. Singler was good against Haywood, but Haywood contributed by missing a startling number of open looks. So, he has talked about Duke quite alot over the years, who didn't, and his style is to cut a fine line by seeing the game from unique perspectives that get you thinking, that up your game beyond the obvious to take issue with him.

As other sage posters here have pointed out, he undboutedly picked up this style kicking it around with his old man and brother. Bobby Gottlieb was dead set on being a college coach from the time he played freshman ball as a walk-on on an Ohio State team that included Bobby Knight. Bobby got his start in coaching by puttig together a team to play in the Rucker league and getting to know every coach in the New York area. He used to drop around his old high school gym during evenings that summer to kick it around with his old coach, and sometimes take a run with the varsity ballers. He never shot, but by example showed us perspectives on the game that, well, were a step beyond and we had a coach that took the game pretty darn far. His old man has been in and around the college game for about 50 years, and coached at a real high division 1 level;, once did a short stint as a 1-A coach. I have to think that talking ball with his old man growing up was all that he did, I'm not sure tht Bobby did anyuthing else, and that to be aplayer Doug had to come up with some pretty keen and unique insights and defend them on a pretty challenging battleground. Doug and his old man understood how to get ahead in the world of college ball-Doug caused quite a stir when he signed with Notre Dame and the media was watching to see how the Jewish kid would fit in when the season began the next season. I didn't know that Doug had been asked to leave the Dame because of a calling card incident; I knew that he wasn't the star that he apparently thought he would be. He went to play for a coach his old man had worked for years earlier, and he realized his potential. He also became a regular contributer on the Rhome show while still playing for OSU. He undoubtedly learned that novel takes that bespoke keen insight sold in the media. I think it does precisely because it ups the game of everyone listening. Upping people's games seems to run in the family.Sure he often talks about Duke during the college basketball season. Who wouldn't, they've been the story for quite a while now. And, yeah, his style is to walk a fine line and he sometimes crosses it, not just in his takes relating to Duke, whom he often praises, again in an interesting and nuanced fashion. While the other heads were talking about how Rivers almost waited too long, how Zeller sould have had his hands up and been tight to Rivers (ridiculous), or what drama that was played out, Doug was talking about how Rivers had manned up by deciding to take the shot, to take that responsibility on his own shoulders with no thought of giving theball up to someone else. Doug said he had always wished that he had done the same thing when he was in an identical situation years ago, and that it bothered him until this day that he had given it up to a teammate with a wide open shot but missed. There was no better way to give Rivers all respect for the most noteworthy thing about how he performed in those final seconds; keen insight? Generosity of spirit? Come on, calling him a Duke hater is a step too far.

The fact that Doug's remarks about the college game are often focused on Duke is hardly novel--who else has been consistently on the top for the past I don't know how many years, during which I think K has displayed some startling diversity in the way he's had his teams play. If your style is to find the ususal take, sometimes it comes off as a step too far, but I think that the evidence is out there that he is no Duke hater. Relevant to this thread and some of the posts here about his attitude towards Rivers, listen, Doug brought his best game when Rivers did against UNC. While all the heads were looking elsewhere to be controversial, i.e., Rivers almost waited too long, Zeller should have been guarding Rivers much closer with his hands held high (both nonsense, by the way), Doug focused on what was really noteworthy. He said that it was big time that Rivers obviously decided as soon as he got the ball that he was taking the last shot, that he had carried the weight ring the game, and would carry it when it counted the most. Doug then laid it out that he had been in exactly the same position and had given it up when he saw a wide open teammate who ended up missing--Doug said that he still doesn't understand how he did that, showing obvious respect for a guy who played it better.
\
I agree with those here who find Gottlieb more knowledgeable and interesting than most all the heads in the media. I usually stop if I encounter him when flipping the channels. If I am not impressed with what he has to say, I move on; most of the time I listen for a while. The guy is good, he is not a cheap shot artist, and I think that his aim is to up people's games, which at least for me he often does. That's why I watch and listen, just like I did a lifetime ago when his old man dropped in.

loran16
02-26-2012, 06:59 PM
AndyGlockner: @GottliebShow UW is facing the same bias every mid-major does: "You didn't beat anyone and now you're beating teams that didn't beat anyone"
@GottliebShow: @AndyGlockner except they are not a mid major- have 3 draft picks on their team and worked in a frosh PG
@AndyGlockner: @GottliebShow Last I checked, "Number of NBA draft picks" was not a selection criteria.

ChicagoCrazy84
02-27-2012, 12:37 PM
AndyGlockner: @GottliebShow UW is facing the same bias every mid-major does: "You didn't beat anyone and now you're beating teams that didn't beat anyone"
@GottliebShow: @AndyGlockner except they are not a mid major- have 3 draft picks on their team and worked in a frosh PG
@AndyGlockner: @GottliebShow Last I checked, "Number of NBA draft picks" was not a selection criteria.


Whoare they talking about? Washington?

Dukehky
02-27-2012, 12:49 PM
Did anybody see Gottlieb full court press in the celebrity game on friday? He's such a tool bag, he ripped the ball from some bad rapper and did a lay-up and got excited. Bro, you played D-1 college ball, you're good, you're not supposed to try and dominate a celebrity game. Hardaway should have thrown a tv at him.

Duvall
02-27-2012, 01:07 PM
Did anybody see Gottlieb full court press in the celebrity game on friday? He's such a tool bag, he ripped the ball from some bad rapper and did a lay-up and got excited. Bro, you played D-1 college ball, you're good...

Well, sort of. (http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/oklahoma-state/doug-gottlieb)

ncexnyc
02-27-2012, 01:54 PM
That FT% makes Mason's look J.J. like.

All kidding aside Gottlieb was a decent player, He was definitely a pure PG.

Considering how badly this board beats up on Bilas and he's one of our own, I'm not surprised a number of people don't like Dougie.

Controversy sells as does being over the top. Checkout Dickie V in his early games, which are run on ESPN Classic. He's not the cartoon character he comes across like nowadays. If you actually beleive Gottlieb is a Duke hater, then take a quick peek over at IC. He gets no love there either. As a matter of fact Hess, who gets reamed on this board is supposedly in our pocket, if you listen to those evil shaded blue wearing folks.