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moonpie23
02-06-2012, 12:08 PM
I'm afraid this is gonna be ugly......i'll be happy to come in here and eat crow, but if we can't shoot well, i think they are gonna hammer us...

-bdbd
02-06-2012, 12:30 PM
Two ways we could go:
(1) Bummed and dejected and "defeated" by a game (and poor performance) at home that we should not have lost;
or (2) Pissed off and angry and now, finally, fired-up and focused for the big rivalry game against a fellow-top-10 opponent in their house.

We have the ability to beat these guys - hell, FSU BLEW THEM OUT BY 30+ - and at least they don't have any 6'10" 285lb behemoths to worry about inside. And they DO have some specific vulnerabilities. BUT they are overall quite talented, and you have to expect that (while they haven't always been so) they will come in focused for Duke. You could easily see this as an interior-focused team vs one that is usually quite strong on the perimeter.

I'm jazzed for this game. As a glass-half-full guy, I see this as a perfectly timed OPPORTUNITY, where a big-time win in this one would be lifting us out of the doldrums. A great chance here...

sagegrouse
02-06-2012, 12:35 PM
I'm afraid this is gonna be ugly......i'll be happy to come in here and eat crow, but if we can't shoot well, i think they are gonna hammer us...


To me, here are the questions:


Big Guys, Part I: Can Dukes bigs control Zeller and Henson on the defensive end?

Big Guys, Part II: Can Mason and Ryan score against the Heels large front line? This is a real test for both of them.

Can Duke make outside shots? We need Seth, Andre and the rest to have a good game.

How well does Duke defend Barnes? He will have a size advantage over the 6-4 Andre and Austin. Will he take advantage of it?

Same question, really, for Bullock and Marshall, who are larger than their defenders.

Intangibles: This game is really about these, isn't it? Can Duke spring back from an embarrassing home loss? Will UNC be lulled into a false sense of security?




sagegrouse

ChicagoHeel
02-06-2012, 12:45 PM
My keys to the game are:

1. UNC perimeter D. We've shown that we can be good against the three, and we have the length to bother your shooters, but we've also had games in which we have guarded the perimeter poorly. You have shooters good enough to hit threes even if they are contested, so if you are hot or we are playing soft D, things could go your way. Rivers could be key here- if he can penetrate consistently and kick to the open man, he could break down our D and open things for your shooters.

2. Duke's defensive rebounding. I don't have numbers to support it, but my sense is that our first-shot offense is just not that good. It can be- we have plenty of scorers- but on a lot of nights we rely heavily on put-backs and offensive rebounds. PJ remains in a slump, Bullock is streaky, and Marshall cannot be counted on to score. If the Plumbs can limit our second chance opportunities, our O might stagnate.

For me a wildcard is your team's mentality. I wrote about this in another thread, but after yesterday it's very possible that you guys might come out of the UM game with shaky confidence that will make a road victory awfully difficult. On the other hand, you did a lot of things well in the second half and you could come out and show the intensity of the second half (or VaTech game), in which case anything is possible. I just don't know what to expect.

The players I will be most interested in watching are Barnes and Mason. SIngler was great on Barnes last year and I don't know who you will have to match up on him this year. Mason did not play well against us last year, but is much improved this year. Still, Henson and Z are a lot for him to handle. If he does not score efficiently, it puts an awful lot of pressure on your outside shooting.

dukeballboy88
02-06-2012, 01:45 PM
One thing I see that gives me a great feeling about Weds game is if their is a team in the ACC that cant guard the perimeter as bad as us its UNC. We will be able to get any shot we want we just have to knock them down and Seth shot great the last game.. I would put Andre, Seth, Austin and Ryan around the perimeter and give the ball to Austin and tell him to create. Marshall cant guard a trash can we should be able to take him off the dribble and create a shot. Plus pulling Zeller out of the lane may help us rebound but Ryan has to knock it down

Zeller is playing as good as anyone in the country right now so we need to try something different on D. What that is I dont know thats why I am here getting ready to go to work and not on the bench. I got a feeling this might be the highest scoring Duke-UNC game we have seen in a while.

lotusland
02-06-2012, 02:01 PM
My keys to the game are:

1. UNC perimeter D. We've shown that we can be good against the three, and we have the length to bother your shooters, but we've also had games in which we have guarded the perimeter poorly. You have shooters good enough to hit threes even if they are contested, so if you are hot or we are playing soft D, things could go your way. Rivers could be key here- if he can penetrate consistently and kick to the open man, he could break down our D and open things for your shooters.

2. Duke's defensive rebounding. I don't have numbers to support it, but my sense is that our first-shot offense is just not that good. It can be- we have plenty of scorers- but on a lot of nights we rely heavily on put-backs and offensive rebounds. PJ remains in a slump, Bullock is streaky, and Marshall cannot be counted on to score. If the Plumbs can limit our second chance opportunities, our O might stagnate.

For me a wildcard is your team's mentality. I wrote about this in another thread, but after yesterday it's very possible that you guys might come out of the UM game with shaky confidence that will make a road victory awfully difficult. On the other hand, you did a lot of things well in the second half and you could come out and show the intensity of the second half (or VaTech game), in which case anything is possible. I just don't know what to expect.

The players I will be most interested in watching are Barnes and Mason. SIngler was great on Barnes last year and I don't know who you will have to match up on him this year. Mason did not play well against us last year, but is much improved this year. Still, Henson and Z are a lot for him to handle. If he does not score efficiently, it puts an awful lot of pressure on your outside shooting.

I'm also curious to see who guards Rivers especially if we stay with a smaller lineup i.e Seth and AR with TT/QC. I think Rivers can get past his man regardless so it will come down to whether he can finish again your big front line or get the ball to the open man after the help rotates. I agree that Duke has to rebound strong to win .

jv001
02-06-2012, 02:18 PM
To beat the heels our big guys will have to play tough like they did last year(tourney). I'm pretty sure Austin can drive the ball against their perimeter players. But if he isn't careful, he'll end up eating the ball. He will have to play his best game of the year in dishing the ball to open players. Seth has been successful in making several mid range shots against them. So let's hope he can continue to do so. Maybe Austin can take the clue and do the same. But in the end, the game will be decided by Mason, Miles, Ryan and Josh. GoDuke!

Kedsy
02-06-2012, 02:22 PM
I'm also curious to see who guards Rivers especially if we stay with a smaller lineup i.e Seth and AR with TT/QC.

It would surprise me if we went with Austin/Seth/Tyler (or Quinn) very often against UNC. Marshall/Bullock/Barnes are 6'4/6'7/6'8. Really hard to guard that with 6'0/6'1/6'4 (and I think that's being generous to the height of Seth, Tyler and Quinn).

On offense, Seth should be able to get separation enough to shoot if Marshall is guarding him, but he'll have a challenge shooting over Bullock.

Mr.Analogy
02-06-2012, 02:23 PM
To beat the heels our big guys will have to play tough like they did last year(tourney). I'm pretty sure Austin can drive the ball against their perimeter players. But if he isn't careful, he'll end up eating the ball. He will have to play his best game of the year in dishing the ball to open players. Seth has been successful in making several mid range shots against them. So let's hope he can continue to do so. Maybe Austin can take the clue and do the same. But in the end, the game will be decided by Mason, Miles, Ryan and Josh. GoDuke!

I think K does something amazing out of yesterdays loss, similar to the VT game only better. I for one think Duke will beat the tarholes, the score will be close but Duke wins by 3.

You heard it here first!

jipops
02-06-2012, 02:28 PM
I'm afraid this is gonna be ugly......i'll be happy to come in here and eat crow, but if we can't shoot well, i think they are gonna hammer us...

I have this fear as well. With their combination of excellent defensive efficiency, good offensive efficiency, and greater physical talent to go along with our season long struggles on defense I think there is a good possibility of this one getting out of hand. We have faced UNC many-many times where they have enjoyed the advantage of a talent gap but we have managed to keep it close or even pull it out based on tough, gritty defense. That unfortunately has not been an element of this team.

I don't want to appoint any moral victories to this one but if we can even manage to keep it close throughout then that could give us something to build on. If we win then it's just gravy. If we get hammered then it could very well be a blow to the psyche.

I'll be interested to see if we can get Thornton to frustrate Marshall. Kendall won't have much trouble seeing over Tyler but if he can manage to keep Kendall from starting the offense too early then this could help. We can't keep up with them full court but if the start of their offense can be pushed out toward the half court line that may set us up better on D. Another aspect is how the officials are going to choose to call this one. We are the more physical team. If we can keep the pale blue bodies a little further out of the paint then we make things a little more difficult.

The Kelly/Henson match-up is interesting in that it could hurt us a lot or help us. If Kelly can pull Henson away from the basket that that gives Austin and Mason a little more space to finish around the rim. On the other hand Kelly isn't much of a threat to Henson on defense. Henson has a huge advantage in quickness and speed.

weezie
02-06-2012, 02:30 PM
I've already started hoping and pleading with the basketball gods that we don't have to sit through Len and Mikey. I may not make it through if that is indeed the case. But, Vitale won't be any better. Ugh, I'm opening a good bottle of wine that night, just to dull the senses.

dukeballboy88
02-06-2012, 02:50 PM
If anyone gets on here again and says they think this is going to be ugly, they should have pitch forks taken away. Yall are acting like this is the 09 Heels or something. They are very beatable even in the Snooze Dome. They have 1 ball handler and he struggles making lay ups and if he takes a 3, I get scared for the backboard. I am one that thinks these teams are not that far apart and I am expecting a good hard fought contest with Duke pulling out a victory.

jv001
02-06-2012, 02:52 PM
It would surprise me if we went with Austin/Seth/Tyler (or Quinn) very often against UNC. Marshall/Bullock/Barnes are 6'4/6'7/6'8. Really hard to guard that with 6'0/6'1/6'4 (and I think that's being generous to the height of Seth, Tyler and Quinn).

On offense, Seth should be able to get separation enough to shoot if Marshall is guarding him, but he'll have a challenge shooting over Bullock.

I would love to see Austin guard marshall, but as you say we just don't have the size to guard the other unc perimeter guys. I remember how Nolan took marshall out of the game last year and I believe Austin is the only Duke player with that ability this year. I guess Tyler could foul him hard enough he'd have to think about not driving to the hoop. GoDuke!

jv001
02-06-2012, 02:54 PM
I've already started hoping and pleading with the basketball gods that we don't have to sit through Len and Mikey. I may not make it through if that is indeed the case. But, Vitale won't be any better. Ugh, I'm opening a good bottle of wine that night, just to dull the senses.

I've sure missed The G-Man this year. Yeh, outside of Coach Knight I can't think of anyone that I'd look forward to hearing. GoDuke!

1 24 90
02-06-2012, 03:55 PM
I've already started hoping and pleading with the basketball gods that we don't have to sit through Len and Mikey. I may not make it through if that is indeed the case. But, Vitale won't be any better. Ugh, I'm opening a good bottle of wine that night, just to dull the senses.

Vitale said during Kansas/Missouri that he would be doing the game, so I would think that Shulman would be his partner. Also, on Gameday, they alluded to the fact that Bilas would be there in some kind of announcing role too.

-jk
02-06-2012, 04:00 PM
Odds we'll see Karl Hess yet again? I think unc hates him (and gets him) almost as much as we do.

-jk

weezie
02-06-2012, 04:22 PM
Now, I'm going to tippy-toe on this one but I actually wouldn't mind if Karl did call the game, especially when both fan groups watch him with eagle vision.
I know we're not supposed to comment on the refs but Hess is considered the "dean" of ACC referees and he is inevitably/eventually in line to call the NC game. I've watched him for so long, I even notice his haircuts. As of the last two years, I've come to think that while he may be considered by the establishment to be acceptable, I don't think he handles his crews well. There's always too much drama that he could easily put a lid on when the other two refs get into trouble, hesitating on calls, fussing at coaches, etc.

OK, PLEASE, please don't yell at me and I am groveling not to get sent to sit in the corner with the rainy teddy bear.

weezie
02-06-2012, 04:23 PM
I've sure missed The G-Man this year. Yeh, outside of Coach Knight I can't think of anyone that I'd look forward to hearing. GoDuke!

Gman called last night's game. Saw him in the hallway.

awhom111
02-06-2012, 04:24 PM
This game is being simulcast on ESPN and syndicated ACC Network affiliates across the country. The list of affliates is right here:
http://www.theacc.com/live/2012-acc-basketball-match-center-duke-at-north-carolina.html

It is a much larger list than in past years thanks to the new broadcast contract this year, so if you do not have ESPN, you might be in luck in as places not so close to the state of North Carolina including Twin Falls, Idaho, Eureka, California, Cedar Rapid, Iowa, Manchester, New Hampshire, or Medford, Oregon, so check the list if you need to see it on another outlet.

duke09hms
02-06-2012, 05:19 PM
One thing I see that gives me a great feeling about Weds game is if their is a team in the ACC that cant guard the perimeter as bad as us its UNC. We will be able to get any shot we want.

I'm not sure UNC's defense is as bad as we say/wish it is. In fact their defense is probably much better than ours. Sure they've looked bad in their 3 losses but that's true of every team that loses. Their defense is ranked #14 in adjusted efficiency while ours dropped back into the 90s after this weekend.

Anything can happen, but I think UNC is a clear favorite in this game.

ChicagoCrazy84
02-06-2012, 05:39 PM
I'm not sure UNC's defense is as bad as we say/wish it is. In fact their defense is probably much better than ours. Sure they've looked bad in their 3 losses but that's true of every team that loses. Their defense is ranked #14 in adjusted efficiency while ours dropped back into the 90s after this weekend.

Anything can happen, but I think UNC is a clear favorite in this game.


They do have a much better defense than us, that is true. Their bigs help them out a lot more with Henson and Zeller. I'm not bashing the Plumlee's or Kelly, Im just saying from a defensive standpoint, these guys are better. They don't have the greatest backcourt so I think we have that going for us. Our achilles heel is definitely stopping guards from penetrating into the lane and I don't know if UNC has the personnel to take advantage. It will come down to the battle of the bigs. I feel like the past few years against UNC, they have had their way down low with Henson and Zeller so if the Plums can hold their own, rebound, get a few blocks and get one of them in foul trouble, we have a great shot of winning.

ChicagoHeel
02-06-2012, 05:42 PM
One thing I see that gives me a great feeling about Weds game is if their is a team in the ACC that cant guard the perimeter as bad as us its UNC. We will be able to get any shot we want we just have to knock them down...


I'm not sure UNC's defense is as bad as we say/wish it is. In fact their defense is probably much better than ours. Sure they've looked bad in their 3 losses but that's true of every team that loses. Their defense is ranked #14 in adjusted efficiency while ours dropped back into the 90s after this weekend.

How our defenses stack up (UNC is listed first):

Overall: 14th vs. 91st
3P D: 66th vs. 76th
2PD: 18th vs. 174th

Both defenses are bad at generating turnovers (200+ ranking).

One interesting note is that in conference play you are the 4th best defense against the three, although the ninth overall defense (ouch). We are 9th against the three, but the 2nd overall defense.

Overall we clearly have the defensive advantage, but you are matching a strength against a potential weakness of ours, which could keep things interesting. We are the 6th best 2P offense in the country, so we are also putting our strength against your weakness.

slower
02-06-2012, 06:05 PM
If anyone gets on here again and says they think this is going to be ugly, they should have pitch forks taken away.

Irony alert.

Wheat/"/"/"
02-06-2012, 06:20 PM
Ok...at a big tourney and can't post except from phone and it sucks.
Moonpies got it right, i'd say.
It's gonna be all about shooting.
If unc has a good, or even ok, outside shooting night, Duke is in trouble.
If Duke has a hot shooting night, they can certainly win.
Duke will have to watch fouls, Heels are coming inside. After reading some of this weeks threads, the whinning could get to be epic around here! :)
Duke will come in ready,i have no doubt. Will UNC be focused? You'd think, but they are a hard team to figure sometimes.
One other thing I think could be key, will Kendall attack the rim? (yes)...will he finish?
Matchup to watch...Bullock/Rivers

MartyClark
02-06-2012, 06:29 PM
[QUOTE=dukeballboy88;548486]If anyone gets on here again and says they think this is going to be ugly, they should have pitch forks taken away.

Please don't try to take away my solitary pitchfork. That could get ugly.

ChicagoHeel
02-06-2012, 07:22 PM
From Seth Davis...

• On the day I visited Duke last week, the coaches tried to light a fire under the players by calling a 5 a.m. team meeting. The meeting lasted for three hours, and I'm told Coach K delivered quite the harsh critique. Later that day Coach K put the players through a rigorous practice. When I interviewed Austin Rivers afterward, his knees were bright red from floor burns. ("Loose ball drills," he said cheerfully.) So it's surprising, to say the least, that the Blue Devils came out on Sunday for a league game at home and weren't ready to play. That does not bode well for their game at North Carolina on Wednesday night.

http://cnnsi.com/2012/writers/seth_davis/02/06/kansas.missouri/1.html

duke09hms
02-06-2012, 07:46 PM
The Duke ladies are putting it to the UNC women 45-21 after being down 10-9 thanks to tough defense, feeding their star post player Elizabeth Williams, good kickouts and ball movement, and timely 3-pt shooting.

Hope the men are taking notes.

Make that 50-24 end of first half.

Saratoga2
02-06-2012, 08:06 PM
UNC is the tallest starting team that we have faced, with 7' and 6'11" on the back line and 6'8". 6'6" and 6'3" players at the SF and guards. They are not particularly rugged inside and they are also not all that quick defensively. We could take advantage of them if we were quicker at the guard slot, or more rugged inside. Unfortunately we don't match up all that well and may have problem scoring. UNC has an advantage scoring just due to the height difference, particularly at SG and SF. This game will take a very determined 40 minute effort on our part, with rebounding and defensive consistency, if we are to overcome our shortcomings.

We also will face a very hostile crowd. My guess is that we will start Mason, Ryan, Quinn, Seth and Austin. We shall see on that.

shoutingncu
02-06-2012, 08:29 PM
If anyone gets on here again and says they think this is going to be ugly, they should have pitch forks taken away. Yall are acting like this is the 09 Heels or something. They are very beatable even in the Snooze Dome. They have 1 ball handler and he struggles making lay ups and if he takes a 3, I get scared for the backboard. I am one that thinks these teams are not that far apart and I am expecting a good hard fought contest with Duke pulling out a victory.

Except that a better Duke team lost to a younger version of this Carolina team in the (I prefer) Schnozz Dome... by 14.

#1Duke
02-06-2012, 08:40 PM
IMO, the game is going to come down to our perimeter shooting and the defense by our bigs..... that's it.
Carolina has some size on our guards and we have seen that that gives us some trouble... we're going to have to make every good look count.
Our bigs are going to have to play VERY tough defense AND stay out of foul trouble, no moving screens or reach ins. We have got to stay in front of Marshall and guard the passing lanes.
It's going to take 40 (FORTY) minutes of hard tough defense and some good shooting on our part to have a good shot at a win.
Rivers should be given the go ahead to penetrate and draw fouls.

Mr.Analogy
02-06-2012, 09:40 PM
After reading some of this weeks threads, the whinning could get to be epic around here! :)



You mean like the kind of whining over at IC after the 33 point beat down FSU gave your holes? :D

OldPhiKap
02-06-2012, 09:54 PM
(never mind)

-bdbd
02-06-2012, 10:23 PM
How our defenses stack up (UNC is listed first):
Overall: 14th vs. 91st
3P D: 66th vs. 76th
2PD: 18th vs. 174th
Both defenses are bad at generating turnovers (200+ ranking).
...
Overall we clearly have the defensive advantage, but you are matching a strength against a potential weakness of ours, which could keep things interesting. We are the 6th best 2P offense in the country, so we are also putting our strength against your weakness.

Disagree about the D "advantage." First, I think we can agree thast BOTH teams have been terrible on D for much of the year. A lot of those rankings have to do with who you've played and the individual match-ups for a given game. Given NC's easier schedule, for example, their relative number may be somewhat "inflated." In any event, NO lead willl be safe in this game for either team, given their offensive prowess and defensive deficiencies.

Duke is now ranked #10 by the AP and NC@ch is ranked #5. Add this one to the large tally of these match-ups where both teams were in the top-10!
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/ncaa/men/polls/


Odds we'll see Karl Hess yet again? I think unc hates him (and gets him) almost as much as we do.

-jk

I'll lay down very good odds that BOTH groups of fans will come away convinced that they got screwed by the refs...
Unfortunately, we all know which team historically gets all of the calls...(Ha!) At least, which team consistently gets the greatest foul-differential in the ACC every year.

Hint: it ain't Duke.
:rolleyes:

JNort
02-06-2012, 10:28 PM
UNC and why we win:

1) Marshall is not a scoring threat, is slow and will not penetrate well which is what has killed us all year. On defense he does not move very quick which should mean either penetration or openings for the 3 ball for us.

2) Reggie Bullock shoots a good bit for some one who is not a part of their big 4 and he hits decent % but struggles if you do not give him room. Who ever is playing the 2 guard spot just needs to play good off ball defense.

3) Barnes will have the size advantage on us since we do not play any SF's. Luckily though he odes not really post up nor is he good at getting to the rim off his own dribble. Barnes can take 1 or 2 dribbles then he either shoots or passes. He will get his points we just gotta make sure its not a great % and don't let him get to the foul line.

4) Henson is long and blocks/alters a lot of shots and we all know this by now. The key to stopping Henson is to not let him get his spot in the paint and box out on defense. Henson is very slim and can be pushed around a little bit. Mason and Miles should fare decently enough if they keep him from getting to deep in the paint. Also depending on how the refs let the game play could affect how well we do against Henson and Z. If they allow a physical game in the paint then we got the advantage. Over on IC I saw them talking about this as well

5) Zeller imo does not get enough attention. He has good instincts and is a hard worker with excellent touch around the rim. Once again he is a very soft player who does not like physical contact and Mason and Miles really like to bang on offense and defense.



Our player notes:

Curry plays well against UNC or he has in the 3 games he has played them in. He has averaged 18 ppg while shooting 58% from the field and 58% from 3 as well. I do not expect him to play that well in the upcoming game but I think it is reasonable to think he gets some what close to those numbers (12 + points)

We have plenty of unknowns with our team this year against UNC if you look at past performance because Mason and Miles have never been asked to score on offense against Zeller and Henson. Cook and Tyler do not have much/any experience at all against UNC or any team for that matter up until this year. Dawkins has never played more than 15 mins and in 5 games has averaged 2.5 shots per game, how well will he do with more pt and more expectations to score?

Austin has gotten better recently as a distributor and nobody has the foot speed for UNC to stay with him (does anyone?). Austin also seems to love attention good or bad and boy... UNC will make sure they hate on him and give him plenty of attention, hopefully he responds well to it.

ChicagoHeel
02-06-2012, 10:34 PM
Disagree about the D "advantage." First, I think we can agree thast BOTH teams have been terrible on D for much of the year. A lot of those rankings have to do with who you've played and the individual match-ups for a given game. Given NC's easier schedule, for example, their relative number may be somewhat "inflated."

The defensive rankings I cited earlier are from KenPom and I'm reasonably certain that they account for strength of opponent. So in that sense I am comparing apples and apples when I say we are 14th ranked and you are 91st. Overall, our defense this year has been good and we are the better defensive team- I just don't think that's debatable. That being said, we've had the occasional lapses and you are a top-5 offense, so it is by no means guaranteed that our D will dictate the outcome of the game.

UrinalCake
02-06-2012, 10:43 PM
IMO, the game is going to come down to our perimeter shooting and the defense by our bigs..... that's it.

I think this sums it up pretty well. I don't expect us to get much inside scoring at all. I think we'll try to dump it in a couple times early and either get blocked or turn it over, then we'll just stop. In last year's game Kelly got four wide open looks from three to start the game and missed them all - clearly UNC's strategy was to play off of him, at least until he starts hitting. Hopefully if he gets those looks again he'll knock them down. I think if we can hit 40% from three and keep the Plumlees out of foul trouble then we'll win.

UrinalCake
02-06-2012, 10:46 PM
The defensive rankings I cited earlier are from KenPom and I'm reasonably certain that they account for strength of opponent.

I get that these rankings are adjusted for strength of schedule, but I don't really understand how that's logistically possible. If team A plays ten awful opponents and beats them all handily, while team B plays ten ranked opponents and goes 5-5 while giving up more points, how can you mathematically determine who has the better defense?

At any rate, I do think that UNC has the better defense. I think the last two years their defense has been very underrated.

JNort
02-06-2012, 10:56 PM
The Good:

UNC does not cover the 3 well and we have tons of 3 point shooters

We do not stop penetration well but UNC passes to get good shots and does not look to drive in too much

K > Roy


The Bad:

They got much more size than us except at PF and C where it is close(er)

6'4" Marshall we give depending on who starts 3 to 4 inches
6'7" Bullock we give depending on who starts 3 to 5 inches
6'8" Barnes we give up about 4 inches
6'11" Henson we give depending on who starts 1 to 4 inches
7' Zeller we give depending on who starts 1 to 2 inches

It is a home game for UNC

FerryFor50
02-06-2012, 11:01 PM
From Seth Davis...

• On the day I visited Duke last week, the coaches tried to light a fire under the players by calling a 5 a.m. team meeting. The meeting lasted for three hours, and I'm told Coach K delivered quite the harsh critique. Later that day Coach K put the players through a rigorous practice. When I interviewed Austin Rivers afterward, his knees were bright red from floor burns. ("Loose ball drills," he said cheerfully.) So it's surprising, to say the least, that the Blue Devils came out on Sunday for a league game at home and weren't ready to play. That does not bode well for their game at North Carolina on Wednesday night.

http://cnnsi.com/2012/writers/seth_davis/02/06/kansas.missouri/1.html

Did you see that he dropped Duke to 15th from 8th? After a 4 point loss in OT?

I really want to like Seth Davis. But he keeps giving me reasons not to.

duke09hms
02-06-2012, 11:02 PM
Disagree about the D "advantage." First, I think we can agree thast BOTH teams have been terrible on D for much of the year. A lot of those rankings have to do with who you've played and the individual match-ups for a given game. Given NC's easier schedule, for example, their relative number may be somewhat "inflated." In any event, NO lead willl be safe in this game for either team, given their offensive prowess and defensive deficiencies.


The KenPom defensive rankings take strength of schedule and quality of opponent into account, so by just about every objective measure, the UNC defense as a whole is unfortunately much better than ours.

That doesn't mean they don't have weaknesses that can be exploited - such as suspect perimeter defense similar to ours. It's just that up till now their bigs have done a much better job of covering up for their guards and rotating over. If Kelly can hit a few outside shots and keep Henson away from the lane more that would help tremendously.

Given their penchant for running and the fast-paced game, the UNC defensive is chronically underrated since they give up more total points due to more possessions played.

ChicagoHeel
02-06-2012, 11:03 PM
UNC and why we win:

1) Marshall is not a scoring threat, is slow and will not penetrate well which is what has killed us all year. On defense he does not move very quick which should mean either penetration or openings for the 3 ball for us.

It is true that Marshall is not a scorer, but he does penetrate quite a bit- it's just that he usually dishes. You will probably try to turn him into a scorer by guarding the passing lanes, which worked well last year, but I'm not sure you have the personnel this year. Marshall has been averaging almost 9 points per game in ACC play, which is not bad considering he is a past-first player. As for his D, that has improved considerably. Stoglin scored 20 on us last game, but he needed 21 shots to do it.


2) Reggie Bullock shoots a good bit for some one who is not a part of their big 4 and he hits decent % but struggles if you do not give him room. Who ever is playing the 2 guard spot just needs to play good off ball defense.

The trick here is to stop Marshall. He's very good at breaking down the D and then finding RB in the right spot and in rhythm. Sometimes though, Bullock just misses- he's a bit streaky. Lately he's been getting better at rebounding and put-backs. You will want to put a body on him when shots go up.


3) Barnes will have the size advantage on us since we do not play any SF's. Luckily though he odes not really post up nor is he good at getting to the rim off his own dribble. Barnes can take 1 or 2 dribbles then he either shoots or passes. He will get his points we just gotta make sure its not a great % and don't let him get to the foul line.

This is key. I'm not sure who you match up on Barnes. Barnes can get to the rim better than many think, although he's a little like Rivers in that sometimes he just takes it into traffic when he would be better served with a pull up or dish.


4) Henson is long and blocks/alters a lot of shots and we all know this by now. The key to stopping Henson is to not let him get his spot in the paint and box out on defense. Henson is very slim and can be pushed around a little bit. Mason and Miles should fare decently enough if they keep him from getting to deep in the paint. Also depending on how the refs let the game play could affect how well we do against Henson and Z. If they allow a physical game in the paint then we got the advantage. Over on IC I saw them talking about this as well

5) Zeller imo does not get enough attention. He has good instincts and is a hard worker with excellent touch around the rim. Once again he is a very soft player who does not like physical contact and Mason and Miles really like to bang on offense and defense.

I don't think Z is soft- he was the only one who was effective when FSU basically pushed us all over the court and he has been playing very tough in ACC play. Still, playing physical with them is the right move, if you can do it without fouling. Last year Mason had 6, 0, and 2 points against us in three games. He is much better this year, but I'm not sure it's enough to give you an advantage inside. If he rebounds well, that could make a huge difference.



Curry plays well against UNC or he has in the 3 games he has played them in. He has averaged 18 ppg while shooting 58% from the field and 58% from 3 as well. I do not expect him to play that well in the upcoming game but I think it is reasonable to think he gets some what close to those numbers (12 + points)

Austin has gotten better recently as a distributor and nobody has the foot speed for UNC to stay with him (does anyone?). Austin also seems to love attention good or bad and boy... UNC will make sure they hate on him and give him plenty of attention, hopefully he responds well to it.

Curry and Austin are the two guys that scare me. Curry has proven adept at finding holes in the D and hitting big shots. The last thing I wanted to see against UM was him finding his stroke.

devildeac
02-06-2012, 11:15 PM
Did you see that he dropped Duke to 15th from 8th? After a 4 point loss in OT?

I really want to like Seth Davis. But he keeps giving me reasons not to.

Not to defend Seth Davis at all but we did lose at home to an unranked team and were favored by 10-11, IIRC, and looked pretty mediocre (or worse) for a half (or more) in the process.

FerryFor50
02-06-2012, 11:30 PM
Not to defend Seth Davis at all but we did lose at home to an unranked team and were favored by 10-11, IIRC, and looked pretty mediocre (or worse) for a half (or more) in the process.

Doesn't matter. He dropped them 7 spots, behind two teams they beat this year (Michigan and Michigan St) who also lost this week, as well as behind Kansas, who has 5 losses (one of them to Duke) and lost to Iowa St on Sat and UNLV, who also lost this week to Wyoming. Also behind Georgetown, who lost to a mediocre Pitt team last week. And based on what? His "hunch" that they aren't as good as their ranking? Whatever happened to ranking based on results? How do you justify dropping a team 7 spots after a 4 pt OT loss at home?

There are LOTS of teams this year that are pretty mediocre at times and only about 3-4 teams that you can call consistently good. (UK, Syracuse, Ohio S, Baylor and Mizzou... UNC has come on of late but against shoddy competition)

I know rankings don't mean a ton, but they DO factor in to where teams play in the tournament and it irritates me when teams like UNC lose by 33 and barely drop 3 spots but teams like Duke, who have earned the benefit of the doubt every bit as much as UNC, lose by 4 points and drop the same number of spots or more.

Kishiznit
02-06-2012, 11:41 PM
Why entertain these jokers with a response and debating w/ them? They have their own "strictly moderated" boards they can post on....GTHC.

duke09hms
02-06-2012, 11:54 PM
Why entertain these jokers with a response and debating w/ them? They have their own "strictly moderated" boards they can post on....GTHC.

And who might these jokers be? Anyone with intelligent and non-provoking contributions is welcome to post on the board, regardless of viewpoint.

Kedsy
02-07-2012, 12:41 AM
Their defense is ranked #14 in adjusted efficiency while ours dropped back into the 90s after this weekend.


The KenPom defensive rankings take strength of schedule and quality of opponent into account, so by just about every objective measure, the UNC defense as a whole is unfortunately much better than ours.

What Pomeroy's ratings do not take into account is injuries. Since Strickland has been out, UNC's defensive efficiency has been somewhere in the 30s. Which of course is still better than the 90s, but my point is their D isn't nearly as good as what Pomeroy's system would imply.


UNC is the tallest starting team that we have faced, with 7' and 6'11" on the back line and 6'8". 6'6" and 6'3" players at the SF and guards. ... My guess is that we will start Mason, Ryan, Quinn, Seth and Austin. We shall see on that.

According to StatSheet, Bullock is listed at 6'7 and Marshall at 6'4. If we start Quinn, Seth and Austin, we'll be giving up 4", 5" & 4" at the perimeter positions. Plus, I don't know how tall UNC's players really are, but I privately suspect Quinn and Seth are a couple inches shorter than their listed height.

We talk about how we don't have the size to match up with Barnes, but if you're right about the starting lineup, we'll be giving up even more height to Bullock, and the same amount of height to Marshall. And that's assuming Quinn and Seth really are as tall as they're listed. If they're shorter (and UNC's players are not shorter than they're listed) then we'll be giving up a couple inches more height at both PG and SG than we will to Barnes.

Which is one reason I think Andre will play a big role in this game. As odd as it may sound, we need his size in there. And if he hunts his shot the way he did in the first half against Wake Forest, UNC will have a tough time guarding him. So I think Andre could be the x-factor this game.

ncexnyc
02-07-2012, 12:57 AM
What Pomeroy's ratings do not take into account is injuries. Since Strickland has been out, UNC's defensive efficiency has been somewhere in the 30s. Which of course is still better than the 90s, but my point is their D isn't nearly as good as what Pomeroy's system would imply.



According to StatSheet, Bullock is listed at 6'7 and Marshall at 6'4. If we start Quinn, Seth and Austin, we'll be giving up 4", 5" & 4" at the perimeter positions. Plus, I don't know how tall UNC's players really are, but I privately suspect Quinn and Seth are a couple inches shorter than their listed height.

We talk about how we don't have the size to match up with Barnes, but if you're right about the starting lineup, we'll be giving up even more height to Bullock, and the same amount of height to Marshall. And that's assuming Quinn and Seth really are as tall as they're listed. If they're shorter (and UNC's players are not shorter than they're listed) then we'll be giving up a couple inches more height at both PG and SG than we will to Barnes.

Which is one reason I think Andre will play a big role in this game. As odd as it may sound, we need his size in there. And if he hunts his shot the way he did in the first half against Wake Forest, UNC will have a tough time guarding him. So I think Andre could be the x-factor this game.
Yes, it would be very nice if Dre would grace us with his presence for this game.:) The here today gone tomorrow routine is wearing a bit thin, he's a junior and it's time for him to start playing like one, night in and night out.

JNort
02-07-2012, 03:35 AM
I don't think Z is soft- he was the only one who was effective when FSU basically pushed us all over the court and he has been playing very tough in ACC play. Still, playing physical with them is the right move, if you can do it without fouling. Last year Mason had 6, 0, and 2 points against us in three games. He is much better this year, but I'm not sure it's enough to give you an advantage inside. If he rebounds well, that could make a huge difference.


I would say he is soft yes unless you compare him to Henson then yes he is not soft lol. Zeller is the only UNC guy I even like (wincing in pain) and wish we would have gotten. Zeller actually gave a darn when yall played FSU and fought through everything since nobody else would and that really shows his desire. He gets unfairly treated by most of his own fan base.

As for Mason... True he did only get 6, 0, and 2 points in those game but that was because he was not supposed to score. His role was to play defense and rebound which he struggled with most of last year but we did not need him scoring when we had Nolan, Kyle, and Seth who does really well against UNC. This year he is more of a focal point for our offense and has greatly improved his rebounding

JNort
02-07-2012, 03:40 AM
Yes, it would be very nice if Dre would grace us with his presence for this game.:) The here today gone tomorrow routine is wearing a bit thin, he's a junior and it's time for him to start playing like one, night in and night out.

I agree some what... as a guy who really has only one aspect to his game (catch and shoot) he is going to be really streaky. I really wish he would utilize the pump fake more or a 1 ta 2 dribble pull up shot. I also mentioned this in another thread but just from watching it seems to me that Dre plays better when Tyler is at pg.

Maybe when we do our subbing we should bring Quinn and Seth in together and bring in Tyler and Dre together since it has been brought up before that Seth does not play as well when Tyler is on the floor with him.

JNort
02-07-2012, 04:08 AM
From Seth Davis...

• On the day I visited Duke last week, the coaches tried to light a fire under the players by calling a 5 a.m. team meeting. The meeting lasted for three hours, and I'm told Coach K delivered quite the harsh critique. Later that day Coach K put the players through a rigorous practice. When I interviewed Austin Rivers afterward, his knees were bright red from floor burns. ("Loose ball drills," he said cheerfully.) So it's surprising, to say the least, that the Blue Devils came out on Sunday for a league game at home and weren't ready to play. That does not bode well for their game at North Carolina on Wednesday night.

http://cnnsi.com/2012/writers/seth_davis/02/06/kansas.missouri/1.html


Hmm this does not even make sense to me.... So how was it that we got better as the game went on? Do we heal up as we play? I mean we were down at half by 16(?) fought back and went into OT. Also how does that hurt against UNC on WEDNESDAY NIGHT when that happened on a sunday early in the morning? If anything it helps since they got the extra work in and still have 2 and a half days to rest from it... Seth Davis is out of his mind or I am missing something.

Saratoga2
02-07-2012, 06:27 AM
What Pomeroy's ratings do not take into account is injuries. Since Strickland has been out, UNC's defensive efficiency has been somewhere in the 30s. Which of course is still better than the 90s, but my point is their D isn't nearly as good as what Pomeroy's system would imply.



According to StatSheet, Bullock is listed at 6'7 and Marshall at 6'4. If we start Quinn, Seth and Austin, we'll be giving up 4", 5" & 4" at the perimeter positions. Plus, I don't know how tall UNC's players really are, but I privately suspect Quinn and Seth are a couple inches shorter than their listed height.

We talk about how we don't have the size to match up with Barnes, but if you're right about the starting lineup, we'll be giving up even more height to Bullock, and the same amount of height to Marshall. And that's assuming Quinn and Seth really are as tall as they're listed. If they're shorter (and UNC's players are not shorter than they're listed) then we'll be giving up a couple inches more height at both PG and SG than we will to Barnes.

Which is one reason I think Andre will play a big role in this game. As odd as it may sound, we need his size in there. And if he hunts his shot the way he did in the first half against Wake Forest, UNC will have a tough time guarding him. So I think Andre could be the x-factor this game.

I won't quibble with your basic premise, that they would have a large height advantage if we start our most effective guards of late. We should have the quickness advantage though. If we substitute Andre for who, Quinn, we get a 6'4" guard who hasn't played well of late and who will still give away 4 inches instead of 6 inches, if Seth were to guard him. The problem is that there is no Duke lineup that will make up for this UNC height afvantage unless coach K is willing to use Michael or Josh at the 3. I therefore favor playing the guys who are doing the best job at the present time and subbing the others as needed.

DukieInBrasil
02-07-2012, 07:20 AM
Hmm this does not even make sense to me.... So how was it that we got better as the game went on? Do we heal up as we play? I mean we were down at half by 16(?) fought back and went into OT. Also how does that hurt against UNC on WEDNESDAY NIGHT when that happened on a sunday early in the morning? If anything it helps since they got the extra work in and still have 2 and a half days to rest from it... Seth Davis is out of his mind or I am missing something.
The point is that the team came out flat against an inferior opponent at home after supposedly receiving the message that they need to work harder. The point is that it shouldn't take us 30 minutes to figure out that we have to play hard to beat inferior teams, and then lose anyway. I don't think losing to a mediocre Miami team at home helps us in any way. If we come out with the same energy @ UNC, we'll lose by 33, or more.

DukieInBrasil
02-07-2012, 07:31 AM
I won't quibble with your basic premise, that they would have a large height advantage if we start our most effective guards of late. We should have the quickness advantage though. If we substitute Andre for who, Quinn, we get a 6'4" guard who hasn't played well of late and who will still give away 4 inches instead of 6 inches, if Seth were to guard him. The problem is that there is no Duke lineup that will make up for this UNC height afvantage unless coach K is willing to use Michael or Josh at the 3. I therefore favor playing the guys who are doing the best job at the present time and subbing the others as needed.
If we do end up having a quickness advantage, and a height deficit, i'm not sure that we can take advantage of the quickness b/c Andre, Austin, Tyler nor Quinn has shown the ability to hit pull-up jumpers, tho' Seth has. I'm afraid that Austin is gonna drive into the trees and get rejected frequently, b/c he seems to be determined to get to the rim, irregardless ;)
If Austin can use his eyes more and do an effective job drawing either Zeller or Henson to him and then pass to an open Plumlee or Kelly, that may be our best play. Austin has shown a better ability to pass lately, so maybe he'll be able to put that to use effectively vs UNC.
Among the other guards, only Quinn has shown the ability to create a shot in the lane, despite his closing plays vs Miami, and he gives up a foot (or more) to UNC's frontcourt, so he may not be able shoot over them.
If i was UNC i would not drop off of the perimeter shooters and just let Henson and Zeller try to block shots if our guards do end up getting past the perimeter D. Then again, if that doesn't work, Roy has a propensity to not change strategies during games, it may be a blessing for Duke.
I really don't see who among Duke's guards can prevent Marshall from doing what he does, and subsequently gets open dunks for Henson & Zeller.

OldPhiKap
02-07-2012, 08:32 AM
Seems to me that whoever wants to argue about how poorly we played against Miami (and we certainly did) should do so on the Miami thread.

Next play, Carolina.

I would expect this to be an extremely physical game and pretty chippy. Would not be surprised to see some extra-curriculars.

nobodybutDUKE
02-07-2012, 08:49 AM
In championship years, teams with outstanding or quality point guards are usually the winners.

Some names that come to mind: B. Hurley,J. Williams, R. Felton, K. Walker, and there are others. The point is
hate or love him, Marshall is by far the better point guard in this game. His stats since taking over the reins
for the Holes speak for themselves.

We have had point guard by committee. Marshall is not the greatest penetrator, but his passing ability is
uncanny. IMHO his play will be the key in deciding the outcome of this game.

Kedsy
02-07-2012, 10:15 AM
I don't think losing to a mediocre Miami team at home helps us in any way.

I wish people would stop saying this. Yes, we should have beaten them at home, but since Johnson came back, Miami has been a very good team, not a "mediocre" one.


I won't quibble with your basic premise, that they would have a large height advantage if we start our most effective guards of late. We should have the quickness advantage though. If we substitute Andre for who, Quinn, we get a 6'4" guard who hasn't played well of late and who will still give away 4 inches instead of 6 inches, if Seth were to guard him. The problem is that there is no Duke lineup that will make up for this UNC height afvantage unless coach K is willing to use Michael or Josh at the 3. I therefore favor playing the guys who are doing the best job at the present time and subbing the others as needed.

Well, using listed heights, Quinn, Seth, Austin give up 4, 5, and 4 inches to the starter they are guarding. Seth, Austin, Andre give up 2, 2, and 4 inches. I would say that's a significant difference, especially on the defensive side.

On offense, as DukieInBrazil alluded, quickness only helps if you have an advantage once you get past your man. But to the extent that Quinn and Seth have a quickness advantage, they'll probably still be at a disadvantage if they get into the middle of the lane. Given the occasional laissez faire perimeter D played by UNC, I like the all-shooter lineup. I think Seth and Andre can get open threes if guarded by Marshall and Barnes, and Austin should be able to have his way against Bullock at least as much as he would against Barnes. Although, thinking out loud, if Ryan can hit a few threes early and draw one of UNC's bigs out to the perimeter, then we might be able to use a quickness advantage to get into the lane if the player guarding Kelly is to far away to help.

Having said all that, obviously all five guards are going to play, and Coach K will go with whatever seems to be working. The key will still be defense, especially on Marshall. We'll just have to see how it goes.

Kedsy
02-07-2012, 10:27 AM
In championship years, teams with outstanding or quality point guards are usually the winners.

Some names that come to mind: B. Hurley,J. Williams, R. Felton, K. Walker, and there are others.

Hurley went 5-5 against UNC in his career. Felton went 2-5 against Duke. So I don't know that your axiom has too much merit.

I'm not sure who K. Walker is, but maybe you mean T. Lawson? His teams went 5-1 against Duke, although it was a relatively down time for the Devils. Jason Williams went 7-1 against UNC, but it was somewhat of a down time for the Heels. So far in his career, Marshall is 1-2 against Duke.

FerryFor50
02-07-2012, 10:30 AM
I wish people would stop saying this. Yes, we should have beaten them at home, but since Johnson came back, Miami has been a very good team, not a "mediocre" one.




Totally agree. Miami has a great inside game with Johnson and some dead eye shooters. Should they make the tourny, they'll be a tough out.

nobodybutDUKE
02-07-2012, 10:38 AM
Hurley went 5-5 against UNC in his career. Felton went 2-5 against Duke. So I don't know that your axiom has too much merit.

I'm not sure who K. Walker is, but maybe you mean T. Lawson? His teams went 5-1 against Duke, although it was a relatively down time for the Devils. Jason Williams went 7-1 against UNC, but it was somewhat of a down time for the Heels. So far in his career, Marshall is 1-2 against Duke.

I used mostly Duke,UNC point guard referrals, but I was trying to make the point of the point guard position
importance between quality teams or any team for that matter. I wasn't really trying to bring back Duke/UNC
series match ups, but rather NCAA Championship winners of the past. I was trying to show the true importance
of the point guard in college basketball. Duke/UNC have won their share of championships so therefore the point
guards of some of those teams were used. K. Walker is Kemba Walker of last years UConn team.

Not saying Marshall is in any of those players category, but as for the current matchup of teams, his past and
current play far outshines our point guard by committee and therefore I believe he will be the real key to the
outcome.

Kedsy
02-07-2012, 10:53 AM
I used mostly Duke,UNC point guard referrals, but I was trying to make the point of the point guard position importance between quality teams or any team for that matter. I wasn't really trying to bring back Duke/UNC series match ups, but rather NCAA Championship winners of the past. I was trying to show the true importance of the point guard in college basketball. Duke/UNC have won their share of championships so therefore the point guards of some of those teams were used. K. Walker is Kemba Walker of last years UConn team.

Well, I agree that championship teams often have great point guards. Although plenty of championship teams don't, for example the back-to-back Florida champions. And plenty of great PGs don't win championships (Nash, Kidd, Stockton, to name a few). A lot of championship teams have great combo guards (and personally I would put Kemba Walker and Jason Williams in this category, along with Chalmers of 2008 Kansas and McNamara of 2003 Syracuse, and arguably Jon Scheyer of 2010 Duke). Ultimately, I think the most accurate thing to say is championship teams often have great players, and let it go at that.


Not saying Marshall is in any of those players category, but as for the current matchup of teams, his past and current play far outshines our point guard by committee and therefore I believe he will be the real key to the outcome.

See, now you're contradicting yourself. First you say you didn't mean that great PGs win their matchups in the Duke/UNC series, and now you seem to be saying the opposite.

dukeballboy88
02-07-2012, 11:14 AM
I think UNC goes 13-32 from the line and struggles from 3. Duke goes 13-32 from 3 and 15-18 from the line to avoid the upset. Marshall gets 2 fouls early and is forced to sit and here is where losing Strickland will hurt. Ryan makes Zeller a perimeter defender and drops 20 on him and gets him in foul trouble. K proves again he is Hucks foster father.

LETS GO DUKE!!! LETS GO DUKE!!! LETS GO DUKE!!!

gumbomoop
02-07-2012, 12:03 PM
I am interested in K's comment in yesterday's ACC teleconference that games often turn on "attention to detail where you have to make a play."

Obviously that could apply to Sunday's game v. Miami, and I hope it will apply Wed eve, with more positive results for Duke. I'm inclined to add a friendly amendment to K's observation, by suggesting that tough games turn on attention to detail on many, many plays, and not just at the end. That is, you "have to" to make lots of plays - on O and D - throughout the game. If our guys fail to pay attention to the very details that distinguish good from bad play(s), they're going to lose.

Beyond the point that several posters have made - gotta make shots, including good % of 3s, and rebound against an excellent rebounding team - I will be looking for these kinds of "attention to detail":


no one-handed thunder dunks, none; even when successful it's unwise, as it only encourages more such crap
intense, focused block-outs on rebounding when UNC's at the line; no tap backs by Heels
no silly fouls, none, especially by Miles and Mason; tough enough to deal with Zeller and Henson without wasted fouls
focus on the detail of setting solid, not moving, screens
constant, constant talk on D; K has repeatedly said staff has worked on getting more, and more effective, communication; that's a big detail for K, yet up to now it seems this crucial detail hasn't been mastered [this is a detail I guess we might not be able to "see" as clearly as some of the others, but if it's there, K would probably praise it after the game
bigs get back on D every time, including after Duke scores; no easy baskets via long Marshall passes to streaking Zeller/Henson
no rhythm-dribble by Mason in the off-chance play or 2 that he's literally wide open via a good pass


Other detail things? There must be quite a few that other posters could add.....

Beyond these things, I hope that when our guys drive, they go up and into Henson, rather than trying to avoid him. IMO, better chance to draw a foul than to avoid a block; he's too long, but he's not too strong. Also, I hope our guys realize that Zeller is sneaky-good at intercepting entry passes. He's not as good on D as O, but he's pretty good.

I'm looking forward to what I assume might be a game-long Barnes-Rivers duel against each other. Now maybe Roy will surprise and put Bullock on Rivers, and let Barnes guard Seth/Andre. But I just assume Rivers and Barnes will play 35 minutes, and try to check each other. If Barnes had a better handle, Rivers would be in big trouble. If Roy actually designs a game-plan that emphasizes Barnes posting up a lot, that might also be a problem for whoever's defending him. But on the optimistic - and just generally fun side - I sort of look forward to seeing Austin v. Barnes, or anyone else. Despite his missed FTs, Austin has game and attitude, and is the closest thing Duke has to a relentless player.

I'm still getting used to Austin, but he certainly possesses what, IMO, is the single most important physical skill, especially for perimeter players - handle. And I think he shows what, IMO, is the single most important mental/psychological [??] skill - relentlessness. His decision-making, though still inconsistent, is coming along ok.

mike88
02-07-2012, 12:26 PM
For Duke to have a chance to win tomorrow night, I think the following need to happen:

1) Mason must handle the ball in the low post frequently without turning it over, looking for open shooters on the kick-out if he gets doubled

2) Andre, Seth, and especially Ryan must shoot a good % from 3

3) Austin will need to have more assists than turn-overs; overall, we will need to limit live-ball turnovers to less than 10

4) Limit UNC offensive rebounds and put-backs

5) Hope Bullock/Hairston/Marshall don't shoot a high % from 3

6) Limit bad fouls, especially Mason

Miles is going to need to give us good defensive minutes, as are Andre and Quinn; otherwise, we will just get out-scored

oldnavy
02-07-2012, 12:32 PM
I made a wager with my son the UNC fan that UNC would not sweep Duke this year.... after Sunday I started to regret the bet.... here's hoping that the boys pull together and play a full 40 minutes of hard nosed ball. I really don't want to wear that UNC tee shirt to work.....:(

Kedsy
02-07-2012, 12:43 PM
after Sunday I started to regret the bet....

Never regret that bet. Even if you lose.










...but I think you're going to win (if not tomorrow then the next game).

ChicagoHeel
02-07-2012, 12:46 PM
Duke and UNC's recruits' predictions on the upcoming game...

http://espn.go.com/blog/high-school/boys-basketball/post/_/id/2904/duke-unc-recruits-handicap-the-rivlary-2

shoutingncu
02-07-2012, 12:47 PM
I'm looking forward to what I assume might be a game-long Barnes-Rivers duel against each other.

You may well be right, but do you want to add that pressure to Rivers, who's already called upon to lead this team? Plus, if he's more focused on beating his individual nemesis, won't that run the risk of hurting the already questionable chemistry? Maybe he goes off for twenty... who's going to score the other seventy to beat Carolina? (hat tip: whoever said the same thing about Blake Griffin in the '09 tournament).

gumbomoop
02-07-2012, 01:14 PM
You may well be right, but do you want to add that pressure to Rivers, who's already called upon to lead this team? Plus, if he's more focused on beating his individual nemesis, won't that run the risk of hurting the already questionable chemistry? Maybe he goes off for twenty... who's going to score the other seventy to beat Carolina? (hat tip: whoever said the same thing about Blake Griffin in the '09 tournament).

You're right that if Rivers thinks only about besting Barnes, he could lose focus elsewhere. Frankly, I probably can't afford to worry about extra pressure on Rivers. But, yes, I'm willing to risk it, for the upside is the inspiration in seeing 2 fine players play fiercely in a great, great rivalry. I'm willing to bet that neither UNC's nor Duke's other players will lay back and watch Barnes and Rivers. And is it or is it not - I'm honestly not sure - just as likely that Barnes would hurt his team if he gets caught up in showing Rivers who's best?

This is a spectacularly good rivalry, and despite Duke's being on a downtick, and UNC being upticking, I yearn for a wonderful game. That is, as I noted in a throw-away line in my post, I want to see a fun game, excitement, where both teams challenge each other, go at each other, inspire each other. I'm willing to bet/hope that if Rivers willingly accepts the challenge of Duke's most obvious matchup problem - though, honestly, who else we got?? - and if he holds his own, the upside will top the downside, or something.

To be clear, however, my comment re Rivers-Barnes and a fun game was an addendum to a much more mundane point about how "attention to detail" - maybe below the radar of any possible Rivers-Barnes fireworks - will determine the outcome.

ChicagoHeel
02-07-2012, 01:24 PM
Are these the match-ups that we will likely see?

1. Marshall-Rivers
2. Bullock-Curry
3. Barnes- Dawkins/ Cook/ Thornton/ Hairston?
4. Henson-Kelly
5. Z- Mason

I want us to put Bullock on Curry because RB fights through screens well and has the length to disrupt Curry. Sth is the most proven Carolina killer on the floor, so he's priority number one for me. That leaves Marshall on Rivers though, which could be a problem given Rivers' speed and aggressiveness. If Kelly can hit some shots and draw Henson out on D, that might open things up for Rivers too. When I look at the backcourt match-ups, I definitely miss Strickland.

Who will guard Barnes?

UrinalCake
02-07-2012, 01:33 PM
Duke goes 13-32 from 3 and 15-18 from the line to avoid the upset.

Why would you consider it an upset if UNC wins? They're the higher ranked team, had much higher expectations coming into the season, and are playing at home.

Rebounding by our guards is going to be huge with all of the size we're giving up. On offensive, there's a gamble between going for the offensive boards versus getting back on D when you know Carolina is going to run. If they kill us on the boards then we don't have much of a chance, even if we shoot well.

Kfanarmy
02-07-2012, 02:02 PM
Are these the match-ups that we will likely see?

1. Marshall-Rivers
2. Bullock-Curry
3. Barnes- Dawkins/ Cook/ Thornton/ Hairston?
4. Henson-Kelly
5. Z- Mason

I want us to put Bullock on Curry because RB fights through screens well and has the length to disrupt Curry. Sth is the most proven Carolina killer on the floor, so he's priority number one for me. That leaves Marshall on Rivers though, which could be a problem given Rivers' speed and aggressiveness. If Kelly can hit some shots and draw Henson out on D, that might open things up for Rivers too. When I look at the backcourt match-ups, I definitely miss Strickland.

Who will guard Barnes? hey, hey that's zeller you're talking about. Z played for Duke too recently to reuse the moniker!!!

Onlyduke
02-07-2012, 02:20 PM
I love Duke .... always have, but if anybody thinks that Duke can win tomorrow night, they're delusional. Sorry .... that's the way I see it. But I gotta say "GO DUKE"!

shoutingncu
02-07-2012, 02:22 PM
And is it or is it not - I'm honestly not sure - just as likely that Barnes would hurt his team if he gets caught up in showing Rivers who's best?

Yes, absolutely... but Barnes shouldn't have to carry the scoring burden for his team to win and hopefully will feel no added pressure to do so.


I'm willing to bet/hope that if Rivers willingly accepts the challenge of Duke's most obvious matchup problem - though, honestly, who else we got?? - and if he holds his own, the upside will top the downside, or something.

Who else, indeed.

Personally... I think the game should mirror last season's in Chapel Hill, with Carolina controlling most of the game, but Duke never out of it. Of course, anything can happen.

ChicagoHeel
02-07-2012, 02:25 PM
hey, hey that's zeller you're talking about. Z played for Duke too recently to reuse the moniker!!!

Ha, ha. I guess since I'm on the visiting team, so to speak, I'll defer and henceforth call him Zeller. I know the feeling, by the way. Last night an announcer referred to a Missouri player as "Butter" and for a second I was actually pissed that he was trying to steal Marshall's nickname. That's when you know you're a little to into your team.

nocilla
02-07-2012, 02:26 PM
Are these the match-ups that we will likely see?

1. Marshall-Rivers
2. Bullock-Curry
3. Barnes- Dawkins/ Cook/ Thornton/ Hairston?
4. Henson-Kelly
5. Z- Mason

I want us to put Bullock on Curry because RB fights through screens well and has the length to disrupt Curry. Sth is the most proven Carolina killer on the floor, so he's priority number one for me. That leaves Marshall on Rivers though, which could be a problem given Rivers' speed and aggressiveness. If Kelly can hit some shots and draw Henson out on D, that might open things up for Rivers too. When I look at the backcourt match-ups, I definitely miss Strickland.

Who will guard Barnes?

I don't even know who will start, so it's hard to predict matchups. But I would guess that Rivers won't be on Marshall. If Cook or Thornton start then they would guard Marshall. If not, then I think Curry would be on Marshall. If it is Curry, Rivers, and Dawkins then I think Dawkins will be on Barnes. If it is Cook/Thornton, Curry, and Rivers then Rivers will be on Barnes. Either way, Duke will play a variety of lineups so the matchups will change.

I don't know how UNC will want to matchup, but I would like to see Henson guarding Kelly with the hopes of Kelly drawing Henson out to the perimeter. Mason would also have more success against Zeller too I believe.

gumbomoop
02-07-2012, 03:53 PM
Duke will play a variety of lineups so the matchups will change.

Yes. My own preference for a lot of Barnes-Rivers matchup derives from my perception that Rivers has developed into a smarter defender by far than he was at the beginning of the season. Seems clear that not only is he "coachable," but he relishes - visibly and viscerally so - playing D as well as O. My view is that he's simply a better bet - no guarantee, just the better among few, and all tough, choices - to draw a charge or 2 from Barnes, and to fight him for rebounds, and then retain enough energy to go full-steam on O.

UNC's on-court 5 will probably at every moment be taller than Duke's. So, although the matchups will change, assuming Barnes will play 35 minutes, he's going to be matched with Austin and Andre. [I guess it's conceivable - is it? - that Josh might guard Barnes for a short stretch.] IMO, Austin is a quicker defender than Andre, and is more likely to be able, physically and emotionally, to play through exhaustion in his 35 minutes. I'm willing to bet/hope that Austin would relish the opportunity to guard Barnes for significant minutes, block him out, try to take a charge, and then be counted on to contribute points on O, too. I do expect, of course, that K will rotate Austin and Andre on Barnes for 3-5 minute stretches.

It does seem that, absent foul problems for UNC, the matchups almost entirely disadvantage Duke. Duke's height disadvantage is not really balanced out by outquicking UNC on perimeter, because neither Andre nor Seth has an excellent handle. Quinn is a wild-card-plus, handle-wise; but he'd have to be unexpectedly good guarding Marshall, who's bigger, stronger, headier.

Even if Duke can manage its mismatch problems [UNC's height, O-smoothness, experience], it still has to play smart, with "attention to detail" that K mentioned, and which was the actual emphasis of my original post [#62] in this thread.

Just for argument's sake, say UNC is not able to exploit its putative matchup advantages. It will have other advantages if Duke players lack "attention to detail," either the ones I mentioned, or ones others might be concerned about. Although UNC, too, has not been as consistent as their preseason plaudits might have predicted, their "attention to detail" issues seem right now less daunting. Naturally, I'd be thrilled were they to make several boneheaded plays, or even a dozen. Two charges by Marshall in the first 5 minutes, goal-tending by Henson, confusion on D, Duke tap-back on FT - that sort of thing.

I'm hoping for an attention-smart game from the Devils overall, and for a joyful performance from Austin.

oldnavy
02-07-2012, 04:20 PM
You may well be right, but do you want to add that pressure to Rivers, who's already called upon to lead this team? Plus, if he's more focused on beating his individual nemesis, won't that run the risk of hurting the already questionable chemistry? Maybe he goes off for twenty... who's going to score the other seventy to beat Carolina? (hat tip: whoever said the same thing about Blake Griffin in the '09 tournament).

I guess I would guestion what you mean by chemistry. I do not think that there are personality chemistry problems at all on this team... there may be some talent overlap and needs that are causing some style of play type issues, but I would term that more of a team makeup not chemistry problem(s). In other words I don't think that there are locker room problems...

I think that we match up pretty good with UNC in fact. Our guards should all be able to stop Marshall from getting into the lane "too often", and if our bigs stay true and don't help out and force Marshall to score verse pass we should be ok. I think our bigs match up ok with Henson and Zeller, except Henson is so freakin long he will be difficult to keep off the boards. We definately need to body up, and push Zeller about 2 foot further out than he is comfortable. HB really doesn't worry me much, I would like to see Kelly on HB, but that would mean playing three bigs which probably will not happen. Whoever guards him needs to make him work and not just spot up and shoot. The shooting guard match up is a little more problematic for us given Bullocks size... Dawkins probably will draw that assignment, and hopefully keep a hand up and bother Bullock.

Actually UNC's defense has been better this year than in the past IMO. We really need penetration into the lane (hear me Austin??) with kick outs to spot up shooters. UNC habitually drops down to help in the lane which leaves the three point line open. If we knock down some three's we should be in the game... Henson is so long that he may be the only person on the plant that can block Mason's new found hook shot from behind him... I hope Mason gives a few pump fakes and gets Henson off his feet and draws some early fouls...

Duke can certainly win this game, no doubt, but they will have to play better than they did Sunday or it will be a blow out!

Who knows what will happen... it's Duke UNC for heavens sake. I was at the Robby West game at Duke Indoor Stadium back in the day... anything can and usually does happen in these games...

CameronBornAndBred
02-07-2012, 04:23 PM
The only part of this thread I've read started with "I'm afraid". I'm not. I'm stoked....it's Duke - UNC and it will be a hell of a game. And to top it off, we just got beat on our own court and are probably a little bit pissed off. Bring 'em on, GTHC!!!

Kedsy
02-07-2012, 04:36 PM
Are these the match-ups that we will likely see?

1. Marshall-Rivers
2. Bullock-Curry
3. Barnes- Dawkins/ Cook/ Thornton/ Hairston?
4. Henson-Kelly
5. Z- Mason

I want us to put Bullock on Curry because RB fights through screens well and has the length to disrupt Curry. Sth is the most proven Carolina killer on the floor, so he's priority number one for me. That leaves Marshall on Rivers though, which could be a problem given Rivers' speed and aggressiveness. If Kelly can hit some shots and draw Henson out on D, that might open things up for Rivers too. When I look at the backcourt match-ups, I definitely miss Strickland.

Who will guard Barnes?

For the bigs, when Duke's on D, I expect you're right with Mason guarding Zeller and Ryan guarding Henson. When Miles is in the game, I'm not sure how it will go, but my hunch is Miles will take Zeller and Mason will check Henson. When Josh plays, I can't imagine him guarding Zeller, so he'd have to try Henson. It will be interesting to see how much Josh plays, though, because the matchups don't seem to favor him. When Duke's on O, I echo nocilla's sentiment that I would like to see Henson on Ryan so Ryan can draw him away from the basket. Open everything up for everybody else.

On the perimeter, when Duke's on D, I would like to see Austin on Marshall, but I don't think it will happen. I suspect Quinn and Tyler will guard Marshall when they are in, and when they're not then Seth will try it. When Andre is in, I would expect him to guard Barnes, but it's also possible Austin will do it and Andre will get Bullock. When Andre is on the bench, the only person we have to guard Barnes is Austin. I don't think Josh is an option, and I'd be very surprised if Michael gets meaningful minutes. My biggest concern on D is not who guards Barnes (I think both Austin and Andre can do a creditable job but neither can do a great job), but who guards Bullock. My guess is it will largely fall on Seth, but that's such a height disparity that I'm afraid we'll turn Bullock into a weapon, when usually he's UNC's fifth option.

When Duke's on O, again I would love to see Marshall on Austin. He can't check him and it might tire him out. But again I doubt it would happen. I'd expect Bullock to try it, although perhaps Barnes. I assume Marshall will guard Quinn or Tyler when they're in. When Seth/Austin/Andre are in, it will be interesting to see how UNC matches up. If it were me, I'd stick Marshall on Andre and hope Andre doesn't run around too much. That way UNC would have their two taller, more athletic perimeter defenders guarding Seth and Austin, who they're probably more worried about. Again, the matchup that worries me is Bullock (or Barnes) on Seth, because he tends to have problems shooting over taller defenders. This is another reason why I think Andre is the key to this game for Duke. If he forces Bullock or Barnes to guard him, my guess is he'd play just as well, but Seth would flourish a lot more with Marshall on him.

Obviously this is all guesswork on my part.

subzero02
02-07-2012, 04:39 PM
Well, I agree that championship teams often have great point guards. Although plenty of championship teams don't, for example the back-to-back Florida champions. And plenty of great PGs don't win championships (Nash, Kidd, Stockton, to name a few). A lot of championship teams have great combo guards (and personally I would put Kemba Walker and Jason Williams in this category, along with Chalmers of 2008 Kansas and McNamara of 2003 Syracuse, and arguably Jon Scheyer of 2010 Duke). Ultimately, I think the most accurate thing to say is championship teams often have great players, and let it go at that.

Kidd won a championship last year with the Mavericks... Nash is the only NBA MVP never to reach an NBA Finals

Kedsy
02-07-2012, 04:55 PM
Kidd won a championship last year with the Mavericks... Nash is the only NBA MVP never to reach an NBA Finals

Well, yes, but we were speaking of college championships. And even if you want to include NBA, Kidd won one in the twilight of his career, when he was no longer a dominant PG, and Nash and Stockton never won one at all.

The original poster said, "In championship years, teams with outstanding or quality point guards are usually the winners." My point was that while it certainly helps to have a great PG, it is neither necessary nor sufficient. The Nash/Kidd/Stockton line was talking about the sufficient part.

JNort
02-07-2012, 05:32 PM
Kidd won a championship last year with the Mavericks... Nash is the only NBA MVP never to reach an NBA Finals

lol what? This is college ball not the pros

Kfanarmy
02-07-2012, 05:33 PM
Ha, ha. I guess since I'm on the visiting team, so to speak, I'll defer and henceforth call him Zeller. I know the feeling, by the way. Last night an announcer referred to a Missouri player as "Butter" and for a second I was actually pissed that he was trying to steal Marshall's nickname. That's when you know you're a little to into your team. That's almost too gracious for me to replicate.

JNort
02-07-2012, 05:37 PM
I love Duke .... always have, but if anybody thinks that Duke can win tomorrow night, they're delusional. Sorry .... that's the way I see it. But I gotta say "GO DUKE"!

It posters like this that should not be posting anything... smh

Why do you say this? Do you have any found basis? Are you psychic and can tell us what happened already? Did the game already get played and I missed it?

Look Duke has a chance tomorrow even though it is away. UNC does not defend the 3 well at all and thank goodness it is our strength. Our weakness is we allow to much penetration and luckily UNC does not drive inside very much since they prefer Marshall to pass.

Sir Stealth
02-07-2012, 06:15 PM
Wishing for the same thing I want to see every time we play UNC: get back on defense. No fast break layups off of our made FGs. Austin and Seth in particular need to keep this in mind when they drive to the basket. Our bigs too - no getting beat down the court by their bigs.

rsvman
02-07-2012, 06:28 PM
Wishing for the same thing I want to see every time we play UNC: get back on defense. No fast break layups off of our made FGs. Austin and Seth in particular need to keep this in mind when they drive to the basket. Our bigs too - no getting beat down the court by their bigs.
Agreed, but I'm pretty sure the coaching staff is aware of this, too.

Bob Green
02-07-2012, 08:07 PM
Who will guard Barnes?

Andre Dawkins will guard Barnes. It's the match-up which could determine the game's outcome.

UrinalCake
02-07-2012, 08:14 PM
I think it may make some sense for Kelly to guard Zeller while Mason guards Henson. Mason is more mobile, and I think Ryan has shown glimpses of some tough post D in earlier games. Unfortunately, over the past five games or so it seems like all he wants to do is draw charges, so if we're not getting that whistle then he'll have to hold his ground. If we double-team in the post then it will be important for our 3-man to rotate over to keep the other post man off the offensive boards, but that's kind of a tough situation because that guy will be guarding Barnes. Yikes! I'm getting a headache just trying to figure out how we're going to do this. Maybe throw in some zone?

Bob Green
02-07-2012, 09:05 PM
The Vegas line currently has Carolina favored by 7 points with the over/under set at 160.5:

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/las-vegas/

We should be looking for a score in the neighborhood of 84-77. Here are links to the game notes and full game notes at GoDuke.com:

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=205375565&DB_OEM_ID=4200
https://www.nmnathletics.com//pdf8/822796.pdf?ATCLID=205375565&SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200

MCFinARL
02-07-2012, 09:20 PM
Andre Dawkins will guard Barnes. It's the match-up which could determine the game's outcome.

IIRC, Andre did okay with this assignment in part of at least one of last year's games. When he is fully focused, he can be fairly effective at keeping players from getting the ball, although Marshall's passing skill will make that a challenge.

sagegrouse
02-07-2012, 09:59 PM
The guys on the ESPN-U doing the Clemson-Maryland game named their All-ACC team:

Marshall - UNC ("obvious because he is one of the national leaders in assists")
Scott -UVa
Zeller - UNC
Stoglin - Md (he was busy lighting up the scoreboard at the time)
And, somewhat reluctantly, Barnes - UNC.

I guess we don't have a chance tomorrow against three first-team All-ACC players.

Bring it on!

sagegrouse
'BTW, Andre Young was put on the line with ten seconds left with three FTs and his team trailing by 3. The 89% FT shooter missed the first two'

Kedsy
02-07-2012, 10:28 PM
The guys on the ESPN-U doing the Clemson-Maryland game named their All-ACC team:

Marshall - UNC ("obvious because he is one of the national leaders in assists")
Scott -UVa
Zeller - UNC
Stoglin - Md (he was busy lighting up the scoreboard at the time)
And, somewhat reluctantly, Barnes - UNC.

I guess we don't have a chance tomorrow against three first-team All-ACC players.

Bring it on!



Kind of funny since I think Henson is their best player.

OldPhiKap
02-07-2012, 10:34 PM
I have no doubt that Carolina has some of the best talent in the conference.

I have no doubt that we can beat them Wednesday.

Two different issues.

Go Duke, Go To Helll Carolina.

Newton_14
02-07-2012, 10:43 PM
The Vegas line currently has Carolina favored by 7 points with the over/under set at 160.5:

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/las-vegas/

We should be looking for a score in the neighborhood of 84-77. Here are links to the game notes and full game notes at GoDuke.com:

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=205375565&DB_OEM_ID=4200
https://www.nmnathletics.com//pdf8/822796.pdf?ATCLID=205375565&SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200

Fun Factoid- In the last 75 Duke/UNC games Duke has scored exactly 1 more total point than UNC. Something like 5758 to 5757 or something. In those 75 games, Duke has won 38 games and UNC has won 37. If UNC somehow wins by 1 point tomorrow night, they will be dead even in games and points over the last 76 games. That is just bizarre.

gep
02-07-2012, 11:00 PM
I think Mason will be "huge". He seems to play with focus on the road. And after that game with Miami and Johnson, I think he's ready. Someone posted that the announcers (one of them, at least) kept repeating how, when he asked Mason "who's the toughest player to play against in the ACC", Mason responded without hesitation that it was Johnson. I think Johnson "got into his head". Mason wasn't the same player the whole game. And, Mason was ACC Player of the Week before that Miami game. So, not only is this a road game, Mason is ready to take it to them... and he can do it. Can't wait. GO DUKE!!!

ForkFondler
02-07-2012, 11:09 PM
It posters like this that should not be posting anything... smh

Why do you say this? Do you have any found basis? Are you psychic and can tell us what happened already? Did the game already get played and I missed it?

Look Duke has a chance tomorrow even though it is away. UNC does not defend the 3 well at all and thank goodness it is our strength. Our weakness is we allow to much penetration and luckily UNC does not drive inside very much since they prefer Marshall to pass.

Clearly, reverse weaufing is an unproven technique. But still, it's worth a try.

Ultrarunner
02-07-2012, 11:21 PM
Andre Dawkins will guard Barnes. It's the match-up which could determine the game's outcome.

If Andre stays out of foul trouble.....in an earlier thread I said that I thought that Andre would win a game for us with his defense. This was the game I pointing towards.

Andre is pretty strong at ball denial and Barnes is a bit soft and not quicker than Andre. And Barnes will have to chase Andre - they simply can't afford to let Andre go off. UNC probably figures that Seth and Austin get their points and will make them work for them but they need to keep Andre (or Quin or Tyler but they're less likely to go off) from being that supporting offensive player that puts Duke over the top.

Offensively, Ryan could be that guy too. Last year against UNC, it seemed like Ryan couldn't buy a bucket which allowed Henson to sag in and guard penetration. If Ryan can hit a few early shots, I'll be very encouraged.

The other wild card is Miles. A much stronger player than anybody at UNC and he has played well against them in the past.

JNort
02-08-2012, 12:02 AM
Welp it is officially Wednesday... Those poor poor heels

Saratoga2
02-08-2012, 07:12 AM
A lot has already been posted about our matchups in the coming game, with the thought being that our front court is fairly close in ability and with our backcourt and small forward situation being a matchup conundrum. Without saying more about that, it is worth observing that our coaching staff attempted to recruit to alleviate the very problem we as fans have been trying to suggest remedies for. We did recruit two small forward players in Michael and Alex with both size and mobility. Both were well regarded recruits but neither has yet shown these abilities in game situations. With 23 games behind us now and with the exhibitions, foreign games and practice time, I would have expected more development to have taken place. How long will it take to move these players along? Is it strength, confidence, natural ability?

Think about how well we might match up with Austin, Seth/Andre and Michael/Alex in the lineup. With this selection we also would have two excellent PG backups as substitutions. Depending on the outcome of Wednesday night's game, perhaps coach K will need to reevaluate bringing Michael/Alex along while perhaps taking some lumps along the way as they make their inevitable mistakes in game situations.

hq2
02-08-2012, 08:45 AM
Andre Dawkins will guard Barnes. It's the match-up which could determine the game's outcome.

Not giving me too much confidence. Need to have Josh ready in case we get in trouble.

Bob Green
02-08-2012, 09:15 AM
Not giving me too much confidence. Need to have Josh ready in case we get in trouble.

I am having a hard time envisioning a scenario where Josh Hairston guards Harrison Barnes. Sure it could happen for a possession here or there due to defenders switching on screens, but primary responsibility for defending Barnes will belong to whoever is playing wing guard/small forward. Andre Dawkins and Austin Rivers primarily fill that role. Perhaps Mike Gbinije makes an appearance but he hasn't seen much action recently.

roywhite
02-08-2012, 09:42 AM
The North Carolina newspapers I've seen sure are mentioning a lot about Harrison Barnes' ankle injury.

As usual, many of the in-state media are carrying the water for the Heels. They've got an excuse in place for a loss, and a storyline for a win (Barnes shakes off ankle injury, scores 20+, etc.).
Going back to the days of Dean in this rivalry, one side talks a lot about their injuries or illnesses and the other does not.

BlueDevilCorvette!
02-08-2012, 09:48 AM
A lot has already been posted about our matchups in the coming game, with the thought being that our front court is fairly close in ability and with our backcourt and small forward situation being a matchup conundrum. Without saying more about that, it is worth observing that our coaching staff attempted to recruit to alleviate the very problem we as fans have been trying to suggest remedies for. We did recruit two small forward players in Michael and Alex with both size and mobility. Both were well regarded recruits but neither has yet shown these abilities in game situations. With 23 games behind us now and with the exhibitions, foreign games and practice time, I would have expected more development to have taken place. How long will it take to move these players along? Is it strength, confidence, natural ability?

Think about how well we might match up with Austin, Seth/Andre and Michael/Alex in the lineup. With this selection we also would have two excellent PG backups as substitutions. Depending on the outcome of Wednesday night's game, perhaps coach K will need to reevaluate bringing Michael/Alex along while perhaps taking some lumps along the way as they make their inevitable mistakes in game situations.

Players can't "show their abilities" in game situations if they can't get off the bench. I think it's way too late to throw either MG or AM into the fire like that because what would it do to their confidence if they played poorly in such a heated rivalry. I've been wishing for Silent G to get "some" playing time since conference play started but it hasn't happen. As a fan I'm disappointed in this but I'm sure the coaching staff know what they are doing. However, like you, I would like to know what MG's deficiency is...strength, confidence, natural ability?

-bdbd
02-08-2012, 09:59 AM
The North Carolina newspapers I've seen sure are mentioning a lot about Harrison Barnes' ankle injury.

As usual, many of the in-state media are carrying the water for the Heels. They've got an excuse in place for a loss, and a storyline for a win (Barnes shakes off ankle injury, scores 20+, etc.).
Going back to the days of Dean in this rivalry, one side talks a lot about their injuries or illnesses and the other does not.

BAU - on both counts. And we know ole Huck is prickly about it - witness his outburst around the K misquote from 3-4 years ago, "Some people should worry about coaching their own damn team..."

Ha! (dagummit)

Matches
02-08-2012, 10:18 AM
Perhaps Mike Gbinije makes an appearance but he hasn't seen much action recently.

I think it's been three weeks since he got in a game at all. Possible he makes an appearance if he's over his illness, but it's hard to imagine him getting significant time tonight.

sagegrouse
02-08-2012, 10:36 AM
The guys on the ESPN-U doing the Clemson-Maryland game named their All-ACC team:

Marshall - UNC ("obvious because he is one of the national leaders in assists")
Scott -UVa
Zeller - UNC
Stoglin - Md (he was busy lighting up the scoreboard at the time)
And, somewhat reluctantly, Barnes - UNC.



And now we have a second halftime team, courtesy of Jim Young of ACC Sports --

Zeller, UNC
Henson, UNC
Scott, UVa
Stoglin, Md
Snaer, FSU

Young had eight players forming a second team:

Marshall and Barnes, UNC
Lorenzo B., State
Mason and Austin, Duke
Kadji, Miami
McKie and Harris, Wake (whom he downgraded based on team's poor performance)

Realistically, UNC could get four guys on the first team, unless its team play fades. They're the best-known names in the league, and it also seems like teams in the core ACC area get favored in such votes. If Duke is roaring by the end of the season, Mason or Austin could get picked. And Snaer could sneak in as a concession to FSU's good year.

Sorry for the digression, but I think the rep of the UNC players has little bearing on this evening's game. I look for a Duke win, with the big guys playing Zeller and Henson to a draw and Seth, Andre and Austin outscoring Barnes. I am also encouraged by Al's story on the Front Page.

sagegrouse

ChicagoHeel
02-08-2012, 10:39 AM
Andre Dawkins will guard Barnes. It's the match-up which could determine the game's outcome.

The more I read, the more I think Bob is right. Barnes will probably get a mix of Dawkins and Rivers and the extent to which they can slow him down will be critical to the outcome. Also, I think Dawkins might be able to slow down Barnes' offense with good offense of his own. Barnes is not the best at chasing guys all over the floor, so if Dawkins can get rolling early it could be key. I'm not sure how serious Barnes' ankle injury is, but it will probably make it a little tougher if Dawkins, or whomever Barnes is guarding, is really active off the ball.

I guess the same holds for both Dawkins and Kelly. Both can hit some shots that will open things up for the rest of the team, but both have also been known to be defensive liabilities and to disappear for stretches of a game. Let's hope they clang a few early, get burned on D, and spend much of the game on the bench.

Mr.Analogy
02-08-2012, 10:44 AM
The North Carolina newspapers I've seen sure are mentioning a lot about Harrison Barnes' ankle injury.

As usual, many of the in-state media are carrying the water for the Heels. They've got an excuse in place for a loss, and a storyline for a win (Barnes shakes off ankle injury, scores 20+, etc.).
Going back to the days of Dean in this rivalry, one side talks a lot about their injuries or illnesses and the other does not.

This post is spot on. If they lose then all their crybaby fans will do like they did a few seasons ago with the whole "it's a rebuilding year, we lost all our talent to the NBA", like unc is the only school to rebuild. I can recall not only that pathetic saying but others such as "oh so and so was hurt" or my favorite "oh wait until next year". However when they manage to win it's all you hear, they come out in droves. So predictable......

With that being said I expect every last tarhole to be in hiding come tomorrow morning after Duke goes into the Dump Dome and shoots lights out! :cool:

Huh?
02-08-2012, 11:11 AM
http://ourchain.net/countdown

Albert
02-08-2012, 11:28 AM
Can anyone point me to the picture of the Mason reverse slam at the Dean Dome? You know, the one with the visible horror and pearl clutching of the whine and cheese crowd in the background?

I thought I saw it here. I did search for it, so I apologize.

I think it would help get us in the right frame of mind.

Thanks in advance.

David Bunkley
02-08-2012, 11:54 AM
I wouldn't mind seeing Austin go ahead and help Barnes out with that ankle injury via a nasty crossover.

GO DUKE!!!

ChicagoHeel
02-08-2012, 12:09 PM
Among the most amazing to me is...

"Wednesday’s game will be the 133rd straight in which one team is nationally ranked, which dates back to 1960. Amazingly, at least one of the teams has been in the top 10 in 121 of those games"


http://www.foxsportscarolinas.com/02/08/12/Duke-North-Carolina-by-the-numbers/landing_acc.html?blockID=661986

Kedsy
02-08-2012, 12:24 PM
Among the most amazing to me is...

"Wednesday’s game will be the 133rd straight in which one team is nationally ranked, which dates back to 1960. Amazingly, at least one of the teams has been in the top 10 in 121 of those games"


http://www.foxsportscarolinas.com/02/08/12/Duke-North-Carolina-by-the-numbers/landing_acc.html?blockID=661986

According to Al Featherston, "either Duke or UNC has been ranked in 149 straight matchups – every one since Feb. 25, 1955."

The other thing I found most interesting in Mr. Featherston's article was this quote from Harrison Barnes:


“With a matchup like this, you have to take advantage of it. If somebody 6-4 is guarding me, obviously the thing to do is to put me in the post and just create off that. If they double-team, you pass out and if they don’t, you score.”

If Barnes tries to do this, I think it takes away his most potent weapon, his three-point shot. Also, Bullock will probably be thinking the same thing, since he's taller than Barnes and will either also be guarded by a 6'4 defender or often much shorter than that. And if everybody's inside, who are they going to kick out to? Duke can just pack it in and force Marshall to shoot over us. For that matter, even if Bullock stays outside, I'd rather have Barnes kicking out to Bullock and Marshall than shooting himself. This could be an added wrinkle in the game, but I'm not sure who it favors.

Matches
02-08-2012, 12:28 PM
I don't think it makes much sense for Barnes to spend much time posting up, regardless of who's on him. UNC's already got two effective post players, and there's only so much room in the paint.

The advantage Barnes has over a shorter defender is the ability to shoot over him.

BluDvlsN1
02-08-2012, 12:30 PM
This is not to diminish nc's obvious talent!

The main components of this team lays claim to :
2010 NIT runner up status and some remarkable recent inconsistencies of their own!!

Which brings us to another Classic game!!
A great rivalry!!!

Intangibles are at the heart of this game, when I think of "who" i would prefer to "manage" the intangibles,
We don't have to look very far... Cause... We got him!!!

It's that time of the year... I heard on local radio this Am, that college basketball season starts tonight!,
Pretty funny, and maybe prophetic....

9F ad infinitium....

oldnavy
02-08-2012, 12:37 PM
According to Al Featherston, "either Duke or UNC has been ranked in 149 straight matchups – every one since Feb. 25, 1955."

The other thing I found most interesting in Mr. Featherston's article was this quote from Harrison Barnes:



If Barnes tries to do this, I think it takes away his most potent weapon, his three-point shot. Also, Bullock will probably be thinking the same thing, since he's taller than Barnes and will either also be guarded by a 6'4 defender or often much shorter than that. And if everybody's inside, who are they going to kick out to? Duke can just pack it in and force Marshall to shoot over us. For that matter, even if Bullock stays outside, I'd rather have Barnes kicking out to Bullock and Marshall than shooting himself. This could be an added wrinkle in the game, but I'm not sure who it favors.

You know we could always just go zone and force UNC to become jump shooters..... oh wait, sorry I lost my senses there for a second.

airowe
02-08-2012, 12:37 PM
If Barnes tries to do this, I think it takes away his most potent weapon, his three-point shot. Also, Bullock will probably be thinking the same thing, since he's taller than Barnes and will either also be guarded by a 6'4 defender or often much shorter than that. And if everybody's inside, who are they going to kick out to? Duke can just pack it in and force Marshall to shoot over us. For that matter, even if Bullock stays outside, I'd rather have Barnes kicking out to Bullock and Marshall than shooting himself. This could be an added wrinkle in the game, but I'm not sure who it favors.

If Barnes is shooting three-pointers, I want him taking them from the left angle, not the right.

http://www.dukehoopblog.com/2012/02/08/unc-scouting-report-player-by-player/

Albert
02-08-2012, 12:48 PM
2358

Sorry for the fixation. Is this it, or is there a better one? Like to see some powder blue shock, horror, indignation tonight. Go Duke.

sagegrouse
02-08-2012, 01:04 PM
I am intrigued about Duke's very good play in the last month away from Cameron and the possibility that this will continue tonight.

Also, why is this team so reluctant to accept the obvious home-court advantage at Cameron?

sagegrouse

oldnavy
02-08-2012, 01:15 PM
I am intrigued about Duke's very good play in the last month away from Cameron and the possibility that this will continue tonight.

Also, why is this team so reluctant to accept the obvious home-court advantage at Cameron?

sagegrouse

Could be as others mentioned in the thread addressed to Jim, that our guys feel like just showing up in a Duke uniform is enough. It has that feel to it doesn't it? The problem with this team that I have is that you should only have to learn that lesson once, not multiple times... After the St Johns' game we should not see what we saw in the first half of the Miami game.

FerryFor50
02-08-2012, 01:18 PM
"In the past 75 years of Duke-North Carolina games, Duke has scored 5,858 points. North Carolina has scored 5,857."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/andy_staples/02/08/UNC.Duke/index.html#ixzz1loc9AF2X

MCFinARL
02-08-2012, 01:22 PM
Could be as others mentioned in the thread addressed to Jim, that our guys feel like just showing up in a Duke uniform is enough. It has that feel to it doesn't it? The problem with this team that I have is that you should only have to learn that lesson once, not multiple times... After the St Johns' game we should not see what we saw in the first half of the Miami game.

Is it possible the converse is the problem, i.e. that they are so conscious of the supposed home court advantage that it makes them feel too much pressure, so they overthink what they are doing (or over-adrenaline, leading to too-hard shots/passes)?

devildeac
02-08-2012, 01:41 PM
With the article in today's Raleigh N&O saying Prince Harry "re-injured" his ankle vs MD and was limited in practice yesterday and was only about 60%, I expect he'll get the Congressional Medal of Honor and/or Purple Heart after tonight's courageous performance. (rolls eyes; SMH)

rsvman
02-08-2012, 01:52 PM
With the article in today's Raleigh N&O saying Prince Harry "re-injured" his ankle vs MD and was limited in practice yesterday and was only about 60%, I expect he'll get the Congressional Medal of Honor and/or Purple Heart after tonight's courageous performance. (rolls eyes; SMH)

Wow. Predictable much?

superdave
02-08-2012, 01:52 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing Austin go ahead and help Barnes out with that ankle injury via a nasty crossover.

GO DUKE!!!

I really enjoyed this post. GTHC!

FerryFor50
02-08-2012, 01:54 PM
Wow. Predictable much?

Apparently today Barnes said he's ready to go:

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/323279-barnes-changes-his-tune-on-injured-ankle?eref=sihp&sct=hp_bf2_a11

superdave
02-08-2012, 01:56 PM
Is it possible the converse is the problem, i.e. that they are so conscious of the supposed home court advantage that it makes them feel too much pressure, so they overthink what they are doing (or over-adrenaline, leading to too-hard shots/passes)?

My assumption on home vs. away is that you can dial in on the road a little better. No classes, no friends, just bus rides, pre-game meals and shoot-arounds. I think that helps with focus on the road: everything is geared towards that evening's game.

superdave
02-08-2012, 02:07 PM
Half of this thread has been about analyzing the potential matchups tonight. But there has been little attention paid to the emotions the two teams will bring to the game. I always see Duke-Unc games as a battle of emotions and will - who can channel their emotions more constructively in order to impose their will on the other team. I do think the matchups favor Unc, mainly because of their height advantage. But I do also think this Duke team plays really well when they get emotional.

Duke's problems this year stem from being flat and not giving enough effort to play well defensively. But when they get fired up for stretches of the game, they play pretty good defense. They played much better vs. Miami when they stopped thinking and started to force the action and you could see the smiles coming on and the talking and yelling picking up pace.

Usually games between these two start off three ways - Duke channels their emotions and is hot early, Unc does and is hot early, or both teams come out flat and it takes 4-5 minutes for either team to settle down. Then the momentum of the game see-saws back and forth. I'd expect more of that tonight.

We know Mason and Austin are going to play aggressively from the start, as they've been nearly constant in that regard lately. The question is who else is going to bring the same aggression for Duke. Seth did in the second half vs. Miami and played pretty well vs. Unc last year. I suspect we cannot survive a disappearing act by either Andre or Ryan since both need to work hard tonight. We'll need Andre to play well enough to justify minutes in order to give us a little more size. We'll need Ryan to play well enough to pull Henson out of the paint on offense and to mix things up on the defensive boards.

So I'll be looking for the energy levels out of Andre, Ryan and Seth early on to see if we fall behind early or if we might get the jump on them early.

shoutingncu
02-08-2012, 02:12 PM
The main components of this team lays claim to :
2010 NIT runner up status and some remarkable recent inconsistencies of their own!!

Uh... if by "main components" you mean two of the five starters and zero bench players save Justin Watts... then you're correct. Of course, both Watts and Zeller lay just as much "claim" to the 2009 Championship.

I'd say the main components of this team claim Elite Eight status.

Kedsy
02-08-2012, 02:13 PM
If Barnes is shooting three-pointers, I want him taking them from the left angle, not the right.

http://www.dukehoopblog.com/2012/02/08/unc-scouting-report-player-by-player/

Very cool stuff, airowe. Thanks.

I wonder why Barnes can't shoot from that side?

superdave
02-08-2012, 02:14 PM
Uh... if by "main components" you mean two of the five starters and zero bench players save Justin Watts... then you're correct. Of course, both Watts and Zeller lay just as much "claim" to the 2009 Championship.

I'd say the main components of this team claim Elite Eight status.

Or losing by 33 at Florida State a few weeks back.

David Bunkley
02-08-2012, 02:14 PM
I really enjoyed this post. GTHC!

Thank you, sir! I have my moments.

GO DUKE!!! GTHC!!!

Chard
02-08-2012, 02:15 PM
The question is who else is going to bring the same aggression for Duke.

So I'll be looking for the energy levels out of Andre, Ryan and Seth early on to see if we fall behind early or if we might get the jump on them early.

I think that just like in the ACC Championship game last year, the Plumlees will bring it.

weezie
02-08-2012, 02:25 PM
"In the past 75 years of Duke-North Carolina games, Duke has scored 5,858 points. North Carolina has scored 5,857."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/andy_staples/02/08/UNC.Duke/index.html#ixzz1loc9AF2X

That gives me goosebumps. Incredible statistic. No wonder nobody outside this rivalry "gets it."

roywhite
02-08-2012, 02:28 PM
With the article in today's Raleigh N&O saying Prince Harry "re-injured" his ankle vs MD and was limited in practice yesterday and was only about 60%, I expect he'll get the Congressional Medal of Honor and/or Purple Heart after tonight's courageous performance. (rolls eyes; SMH)

Somewhere, Phil Ford is smiling.

Seemed like a number of times El-Deano would recount just how banged up Phil was, to the point where he'd be lucky to walk again, let alone play the next game and run the 4-corners to perfection.
Then Phil would show up and play like a champ, especially vs Duke.

We know the NC print media is generally in the tank for this propoganda.
I'm wondering if the ESPN crew has gotten the memo yet about this "Profile in Courage"?

By the way, is this one of those dual Raycom/ESPN broadcasts or just the Worldwide Leader?

nmduke2001
02-08-2012, 02:31 PM
I think the key to the game will be our two most inconsistent players. If Ryan and Dre can combine for 25 or more, I think we have a great chance. If not, I think we come up short.

nocilla
02-08-2012, 02:32 PM
By the way, is this one of those dual Raycom/ESPN broadcasts or just the Worldwide Leader?

Dual. Wral 5 locally.

airowe
02-08-2012, 02:54 PM
Very cool stuff, airowe. Thanks.

I wonder why Barnes can't shoot from that side?

Probably a function of his near inability to score off more than one dribble. I'm guessing that's where he ends up when he's forced to take somebody off the bounce as he doesn't really have the handle or athleticism to get where he wants to be.

airowe
02-08-2012, 02:58 PM
For reference, here is a look at Duke through the eyes of shooting charts: http://www.dukehoopblog.com/2012/02/08/duke-scouting-report-player-by-player/

Interesting results from Austin, I thought he'd be better in the mid-range...

arnie
02-08-2012, 03:01 PM
"In the past 75 years of Duke-North Carolina games, Duke has scored 5,858 points. North Carolina has scored 5,857."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/andy_staples/02/08/UNC.Duke/index.html#ixzz1loc9AF2X

The SI quote says last 75 years, but I'm fairly sure it should have said last 75 games. The point totals don't make sense otherwise.

ChicagoHeel
02-08-2012, 03:16 PM
Is it possible the converse is the problem, i.e. that they are so conscious of the supposed home court advantage that it makes them feel too much pressure, so they overthink what they are doing (or over-adrenaline, leading to too-hard shots/passes)?

I elaborated on this in another post, but in general I think UNC and Duke suffer a similar problem this year. ON both teams, there is no hyper-competitive player that brings fire to the team on a regular basis (save perhaps Rivers, but it's hard for a freshman to impose his will on the rest of his team). They just don't have that instinct that makes them step onto the court wanting to kill everyone regardless of quality of the opposing team. That's why both teams have been flat in games that they were supposed to win and/or tended to let off the gas after getting a big lead. But that's not to say we have players who are lacking competitive spirit- they come in ready when they know the opponent is tough. I would be stunned if either team looks flat or lacking in intensity tonight.

I agree with your post relative to the UNC-Duke games. Without looking back at results, my sense is that there have been a number of times when the away team has won (although it has been rare for the better ranked team to lose at home). I think the lack of home court advantage in the rivalry in part stems from the huge pressure of being expected to win at home. It's kind of like the away team is playing with house money and the home team has everything to lose; the former plays loose, while the other tries a little too hard.

oldnavy
02-08-2012, 03:23 PM
Somewhere, Phil Ford is smiling.

Seemed like a number of times El-Deano would recount just how banged up Phil was, to the point where he'd be lucky to walk again, let alone play the next game and run the 4-corners to perfection.
Then Phil would show up and play like a champ, especially vs Duke.

We know the NC print media is generally in the tank for this propoganda.
I'm wondering if the ESPN crew has gotten the memo yet about this "Profile in Courage"?

By the way, is this one of those dual Raycom/ESPN broadcasts or just the Worldwide Leader?

Barnes will be fine until he makes a bad shot or has a turnover, then expect to see the limp appear....:rolleyes:

slower
02-08-2012, 03:28 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing Austin go ahead and help Barnes out with that ankle injury via a nasty crossover.

GO DUKE!!!

Is it too late for us to sign Bernard Pollard as a walk-on? ;)

MCFinARL
02-08-2012, 04:25 PM
My assumption on home vs. away is that you can dial in on the road a little better. No classes, no friends, just bus rides, pre-game meals and shoot-arounds. I think that helps with focus on the road: everything is geared towards that evening's game.




I agree with your post relative to the UNC-Duke games. Without looking back at results, my sense is that there have been a number of times when the away team has won (although it has been rare for the better ranked team to lose at home). I think the lack of home court advantage in the rivalry in part stems from the huge pressure of being expected to win at home. It's kind of like the away team is playing with house money and the home team has everything to lose; the former plays loose, while the other tries a little too hard.

Both of these seem like plausible theories to me.

toooskies
02-08-2012, 05:09 PM
UNC has been proving most of the year that they're less than the sum of their parts. At least 3 lottery picks and an all-world PG? Really?

Whereas plenty of people in the media aren't giving Duke a chance, when the difference between our team winning and losing is as simple as whether we show up to play.

I'm not expecting to win, but I'm not expecting to lose either. I'm expecting a Duke-Carolina game.

NYBri
02-08-2012, 05:31 PM
Hey, folks. Game on.

This is what we live for. It's time. Duke/Carolina.

EVERYBODY SING!!!!!!!!!

Duke, we thy anthems raise
For all thy praises untold;
We'll fight for the Blue and White
Whose colors we unfold.
THE HELL WITH CAROLINA!
Firm stands her line of blue
For they are loyal through and through,
Fighting with the spirit true
All for the love of old D.U.
Fight, we'll fight with all our strength and might;
Win, we can! So here we give a hand:
Hey, Rah, Rah, Rah, Rah,
D-U-K-E Rah! HEY!

Chris Randolph
02-08-2012, 05:50 PM
Everywhere your read (even from some Duke fans), people think UNC is going to handle Duke pretty easy. I can see where people would come off thinking this way and respect that. The most popular cliche about rivalries is "throw out the records" or "it doesn't matter how a team has played coming into a rivalry game, it is a rivalry game!" I definitely believe this to be true 98% of the time (the other 2% one team is just sooo much more talented than the other). That being said, Duke is no slouch talent wise. Sure, I'd say UNC has more talent. But the pressure and hype is on them and we have Coach K motivating our players. And trending of late is we play much better mid-week as opposed to the weekend, haha.

There are obvious keys to the game (limiting transition points, rebounding, knocking down 3's). I believe a very important and overlooked key in this game is going to be the last 5 minutes of the first half. UNC, at home, hammers teams in the last 5 minutes of the first half. They extend that lead by 7-10 points and you climb a steep hill all 2nd half, usually ending in a pretty substantial loss. If we can be the team to make the run at the end of the first half, I really like our chances.

Lets Go Duke!

BigZ
02-08-2012, 05:52 PM
yea it will be a close game. in this rivalry all blow outs are duke wins, when is the last time UNC destroyed duke?

-bdbd
02-08-2012, 06:08 PM
yea it will be a close game. in this rivalry all blow outs are duke wins, when is the last time UNC destroyed duke?

Don't tempt the basketball Gods!!!!



BTW, how do y'all think Kerlina will cover Austin? Can Barnes do it (alone)? I think Austin has a good night running Prince Harry ragged, but that HB "gets his" as well.

This game is a real OPPORTUNITY for this Duke team to turn some momentum around on this season!

Class of '94
02-08-2012, 06:27 PM
Everywhere your read (even from some Duke fans), people think UNC is going to handle Duke pretty easy. I can see where people would come off thinking this way and respect that. The most popular cliche about rivalries is "throw out the records" or "it doesn't matter how a team has played coming into a rivalry game, it is a rivalry game!" I definitely believe this to be true 98% of the time (the other 2% one team is just sooo much more talented than the other). That being said, Duke is no slouch talent wise. Sure, I'd say UNC has more talent. But the pressure and hype is on them and we have Coach K motivating our players. And trending of late is we play much better mid-week as opposed to the weekend, haha.

There are obvious keys to the game (limiting transition points, rebounding, knocking down 3's). I believe a very important and overlooked key in this game is going to be the last 5 minutes of the first half. UNC, at home, hammers teams in the last 5 minutes of the first half. They extend that lead by 7-10 points and you climb a steep hill all 2nd half, usually ending in a pretty substantial loss. If we can be the team to make the run at the end of the first half, I really like our chances.

Lets Go Duke!

Call me stubborn and a biased Duke fan; but I'm not ready to say UNC has more talent. They have more experienced talent; but I think we have the players to matchup with them except for HB if MG doesn't play. Overall, I like the quality of our depth better than theirs when you factor in MG, Quinn, Ryan, Tyler and Miles (or Josh) coming off the bench.

diveonthefloor
02-08-2012, 06:53 PM
yea it will be a close game. in this rivalry all blow outs are duke wins, when is the last time UNC destroyed duke?

Here's to hoping I read this post again tomorrow and it rings true.

My head is anticipating a UNC blowout. My heart is praying for a close win.

May my heart win out!:)

DukieInBrasil
02-08-2012, 07:01 PM
Call me stubborn and a biased Duke fan; but I'm not ready to say UNC has more talent. They have more experienced talent; but I think we have the players to matchup with them except for HB if MG doesn't play. Overall, I like the quality of our depth better than theirs when you factor in MG, Quinn, Ryan, Tyler and Miles (or Josh) coming off the bench.

There is no way that you can compare the quality of player when the terms are Harrison Barnes and Silent G. Harrison is a far better player right now. And besides Silent G hasn't even gotten off the bench lately, there is very little reason to believe he will tonight either.

Class of '94
02-08-2012, 08:14 PM
There is no way that you can compare the quality of player when the terms are Harrison Barnes and Silent G. Harrison is a far better player right now. And besides Silent G hasn't even gotten off the bench lately, there is very little reason to believe he will tonight either.

I hear what you're saying and I'm not saying MG is as good a player as HB. But from a matchup perspective defensively, I think MG matches up size and athletically with HB better than anyone on the team not named Alex Murphy. Again, count me as being biased but I think Duke can matchup with UNC at every position except SF (if MG doesn't play); and I like the quality of our depth. And we get to see tonight if I'm right! Go Duke!!

Chris Randolph
02-08-2012, 08:28 PM
Call me stubborn and a biased Duke fan; but I'm not ready to say UNC has more talent. They have more experienced talent; but I think we have the players to matchup with them except for HB if MG doesn't play. Overall, I like the quality of our depth better than theirs when you factor in MG, Quinn, Ryan, Tyler and Miles (or Josh) coming off the bench.

I'd definitely say you are a biased Duke fan, haha. Just because MG is taller and quicker doesn't necessarily mean he matches up to Barnes. Barnes abuses just about everybody, young/old, tall/short, he is a stud. Zeller, Henson, Barnes, Marshall are all more talented than our guys that play the same positions. All 4 of those guys are first round picks, maybe all lottery guys. I agree with you our bench is better, if UNC wasn't hit by the injury bug I'm not sure we would be better. But I think bench play in big games is a bit over rated. Starters are going to eat up the minutes

sagegrouse
02-08-2012, 08:41 PM
I'd definitely say you are a biased Duke fan, haha. Just because MG is taller and quicker doesn't necessarily mean he matches up to Barnes. Barnes abuses just about everybody, young/old, tall/short, he is a stud. Zeller, Henson, Barnes, Marshall are all more talented than our guys that play the same positions. All 4 of those guys are first round picks, maybe all lottery guys. I agree with you our bench is better, if UNC wasn't hit by the injury bug I'm not sure we would be better. But I think bench play in big games is a bit over rated. Starters are going to eat up the minutes

Holy, moly!!! I can't believe my eyes! We have a troll in our midst who otherwise has made good sense. I think Mason and Austin are every bit as atttractive to the NBA as slowpoke Marshall, methodical Zeller, beanpole henson (eat some of those beans, guy!) and walkabout Barnes. Do you really think Zeller and Marshall are gonna be lottery picks -- just asking?

FWIW (and you always must consider the source):

Barnes, except for his clutch shooting, is viewed as an underachiever by the Tar Heel cognoscenti. (Is Tar Heel cognoscenti an oxymoron?)

At his best, Mason is better than both Zeller and Henson. Ryan, at his best, is more versatile than either. Miles is a really tough guy who needs to let his beard grow (may involve getting a new girlfriend -- or a new Mom).

We controlled Marshall in games two and three last year -- by denying the pass and making him score. It worked then; we'll see if it works tonight.

Austin is becoming a rock in the Duke line-up (and I was not an enthusiast early on). Seth and Andre are instant offense, and -- boy -- do we need it tonight.

Bullock is a wild card, I believe, but so is Quinn Cook.

sagegrouse

devil84
02-08-2012, 08:43 PM
"In the past 75 years of Duke-North Carolina games, Duke has scored 5,858 points. North Carolina has scored 5,857."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/andy_staples/02/08/UNC.Duke/index.html#ixzz1loc9AF2X

I've seen this "fact" replicated in several places now. But I believe it's incorrect. I calculated this to be Duke 5867 - UNC 5834. That would be us ahead of Carolina by 33. Still less than half a point per game difference over 75 games, which is very impressive and speaks to the intensity of the rivalry. But it is not one point.

I used the scores from this site (http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/opponents/results.php?oid=77).

awhom111
02-08-2012, 08:53 PM
Here is the list of ACC network affiliates again if you do not have ESPN or would prefer different announcers:
http://www.theacc.com/live/2012-acc-basketball-match-center-duke-at-north-carolina.html

riverside6
02-08-2012, 09:02 PM
live tempo-based stats for Duke/UNC here...

http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=10559

gotoguy
02-08-2012, 09:04 PM
Brando and Bonner on the ACC broadcast A good thing we can watch it here as Syracuse and Georgetown are in OT

Utley
02-08-2012, 09:09 PM
I know it's the wrong thread - just figure there are more eyes here. Bc 64- Fsu 60. Let's Go Duke!!!!

gumbomoop
02-08-2012, 09:10 PM
FSU just lost at BC, 64-60. No idea what sort of omen that is.....

moonpie23
02-08-2012, 09:10 PM
LEt's RUMBLE!!!!!

Dukeface88
02-08-2012, 09:19 PM
Won the first 4 minutes. On to the next.

Utley
02-08-2012, 09:19 PM
Loving the Austin show. Rivers wash away Barnes.

lotusland
02-08-2012, 09:20 PM
So far Barnes is struggling with AR not the other way around. This kid does not back down!

FerryFor50
02-08-2012, 09:29 PM
Ugh. Henson and Zeller hitting jumpers. Not fair.

#1Duke
02-08-2012, 09:32 PM
Like I said, our perimeter ( 3 point shot ) against their bigs.... that's what the game boils down to.

wgl1228
02-08-2012, 09:32 PM
we gotta take advantage of the lead missed a few chances to get it to double digits

FerryFor50
02-08-2012, 09:34 PM
Fouls are starting to pile up for Duke. Go figure.

#1Duke
02-08-2012, 09:36 PM
Can we keep hitting the 3 point shot?? That's the question. We go cold we're in trouble.

lotusland
02-08-2012, 09:37 PM
I'm not crazy about QC's effort so far. He needs to slow it down a bit. Mason looks strong. Gotta live with the outside jumpers by henson, zeller and Marshall. Block out, REBOUND!

HateCarolina
02-08-2012, 09:37 PM
Fouls are piling up? Miles has two.

Just wanted to pop in for a temp check. My heart is thumping, but I'm still smiling do far. This is looking like it will be a classic!!

Let's go Blue Devils!!! GTHC!!

wgl1228
02-08-2012, 09:39 PM
why oh why is cook shooting every time

FerryFor50
02-08-2012, 09:42 PM
Fouls are piling up? Miles has two.

Just wanted to pop in for a temp check. My heart is thumping, but I'm still smiling do far. This is looking like it will be a classic!!

Let's go Blue Devils!!! GTHC!!

7 fouls for duke and unc is in the bonus. 3 fouls on unc.

Gthoma2a
02-08-2012, 09:43 PM
Get a body on Zellar! Frustration, anger, nervousness, irritability, screaming out loud... Two or more times a year for the last 27 years and I'm still not fully used to it. I love it, but there is a desperation that is unmatched.

wgl1228
02-08-2012, 09:43 PM
finally a foul for us

Son of Mojo
02-08-2012, 09:45 PM
Y'know, it would be nice to inform our fine officials that they CAN call Henson for over the back every now and then when he does it all the time. Or that little clear out left arm fling Zeller does when he shoots his hook. Overall the guys are playing well but have missed a few shots they probably should've hit. Let's keep the lead going into halftime, please.

lotusland
02-08-2012, 09:45 PM
7 fouls for duke and unc is in the bonus. 3 fouls on unc.

They are going inside and we are shooting threes. We're not going to draw a lot of fouls pit there. They've been good shots for the most part though. Austin just drew a foul taking it to the hole!

#1Duke
02-08-2012, 09:46 PM
7 fouls for duke and unc is in the bonus. 3 fouls on unc.

If we go inside and let Rivers penetrate, we'll get some fouls on them. We're taking 3 point shots and they aren't going to foul us on 3 point attempts..... it's the difference between the outside and inside game right??

Devilsfan
02-08-2012, 09:47 PM
We need an enforcer like Henderson to slow down Zeller.

uh_no
02-08-2012, 09:49 PM
We need an enforcer like Henderson to slow down Zeller.

maybe we can putt todd in there to break his nose if things get tough :P

Devilsfan
02-08-2012, 09:51 PM
Good thing karolina doesn't defend the three.

#1Duke
02-08-2012, 09:51 PM
We need an enforcer like Henderson to slow down Zeller.

I think our bigs are big enough.... not sure what you mean by that statement??

Devilsfan
02-08-2012, 09:54 PM
Are our bigs that soft?

davekay1971
02-08-2012, 09:54 PM
Zeller is channelling his alter-Tyler with the excellent flops and over-the-back climbs. An impressive performance. If he can only start taking 5 steps with the ball he'll be all the way there.

Duke76
02-08-2012, 09:56 PM
They simply do not block out period

MartyClark
02-08-2012, 09:59 PM
What's with the ESPN coverage? They aren't showing replays on any of these questionable calls.

DukeDevil
02-08-2012, 10:00 PM
has this team closed out a first half well this year? Ugh.

On a positive note, love the passion rivers brings.

MartyClark
02-08-2012, 10:01 PM
I'm stating the obvious but N.C. is getting too many easy baskets.

Chris Randolph
02-08-2012, 10:01 PM
Everywhere your read (even from some Duke fans), people think UNC is going to handle Duke pretty easy. I can see where people would come off thinking this way and respect that. The most popular cliche about rivalries is "throw out the records" or "it doesn't matter how a team has played coming into a rivalry game, it is a rivalry game!" I definitely believe this to be true 98% of the time (the other 2% one team is just sooo much more talented than the other). That being said, Duke is no slouch talent wise. Sure, I'd say UNC has more talent. But the pressure and hype is on them and we have Coach K motivating our players. And trending of late is we play much better mid-week as opposed to the weekend, haha.

There are obvious keys to the game (limiting transition points, rebounding, knocking down 3's). I believe a very important and overlooked key in this game is going to be the last 5 minutes of the first half. UNC, at home, hammers teams in the last 5 minutes of the first half. They extend that lead by 7-10 points and you climb a steep hill all 2nd half, usually ending in a pretty substantial loss. If we can be the team to make the run at the end of the first half, I really like our chances.

Lets Go Duke!

Hate to say it, but I called this in my pre game post. The lead isn't too big but they have all the momentum now. Are the Plumlee's a whole foot shorter than Zeller and Henson??? Geez, those guys are good at what they do but I thought the Plumlee's were good enough to grab some rebounds.

Mr.Analogy
02-08-2012, 10:02 PM
Well.........let's see what K can do at halftime.

moonpie23
02-08-2012, 10:03 PM
they had the holes on their heels, then let em get some momentum.....

i'd love to see duke come out with that old "first two minutes of the 2nd half" punch they used to be feared for.....

Chris Randolph
02-08-2012, 10:04 PM
Holy, moly!!! I can't believe my eyes! We have a troll in our midst who otherwise has made good sense. I think Mason and Austin are every bit as atttractive to the NBA as slowpoke Marshall, methodical Zeller, beanpole henson (eat some of those beans, guy!) and walkabout Barnes. Do you really think Zeller and Marshall are gonna be lottery picks -- just asking?

FWIW (and you always must consider the source):

Barnes, except for his clutch shooting, is viewed as an underachiever by the Tar Heel cognoscenti. (Is Tar Heel cognoscenti an oxymoron?)

At his best, Mason is better than both Zeller and Henson. Ryan, at his best, is more versatile than either. Miles is a really tough guy who needs to let his beard grow (may involve getting a new girlfriend -- or a new Mom).

We controlled Marshall in games two and three last year -- by denying the pass and making him score. It worked then; we'll see if it works tonight.

Austin is becoming a rock in the Duke line-up (and I was not an enthusiast early on). Seth and Andre are instant offense, and -- boy -- do we need it tonight.

Bullock is a wild card, I believe, but so is Quinn Cook.

sagegrouse

I stated those UNC guys win the battle at their position. Yes, Austin is more attractive than Marshall. But Marshall is a better PG than what we have. And do you still stand by your above post (in bold) about Mason vs. Zeller/Henson?????

gumbomoop
02-08-2012, 10:05 PM
They simply do not block out period

Yep, this is a big problem. K talks about "attention to detail." Blocking out is a basic, essential detail to beating a team that's as good as UNC at O-rebounding. Maybe there's been an over-the-back somewhere in there, but Zeller and Henson are just good.

I still prefer Rivers on Barnes. He's quicker than Andre.

Highlander
02-08-2012, 10:06 PM
So far we have overachieved on Offense, putting together one of our most effective first half performances.

And we're down 3.

Don't have a good feeling about this. I hope I'm wrong.

wgl1228
02-08-2012, 10:06 PM
Please just try something different. Our defense stinks. We also had multiple chances to get a big lead early and took quick poor shots.

FerryFor50
02-08-2012, 10:07 PM
Yep, this is a big problem. K talks about "attention to detail." Blocking out is a basic, essential detail to beating a team that's as good as UNC at O-rebounding. Maybe there's been an over-the-back somewhere in there, but Zeller and Henson are just good.

I still prefer Rivers on Barnes. He's quicker than Andre.

If Andre keeps picking up fouls, you might get your wish.

House G
02-08-2012, 10:07 PM
43.5 seconds to go--an obvious 2-for-1 situation--and Bilas even comments on it. Instead, we hold the ball when we can't use up most of the clock and turn it over. I don't get it.

Wildling
02-08-2012, 10:08 PM
I'm happy Duke is in this game to be perfectly honest.

As good as the Holes are offensively, and how bad Duke is defensively, I'll take a 3 point deficit at halftime.

diveonthefloor
02-08-2012, 10:08 PM
it would be nice to inform our fine officials that they CAN call Henson for over the back every now and then when he does it all the time.

I keep being reminded by my referee friend that there is NO such foul call as "over the back." Either it's a push, or it's not a foul.

But to your point, Henson is awesome at doing this and somehow manages NOT to foul. Kudos to him. UNC can ride that to the final four if they can
figure out a way to deal with their lack of PG depth.

dukelifer
02-08-2012, 10:09 PM
If you told me Duke would be down by 3 at half I would have taken it. The D is way too porous but it is a fun game to watch so far. These games are always hyper. A big question is who will be more tired after half-time.

lotusland
02-08-2012, 10:09 PM
I don't know how much Barnes ankle is bothering him but he can't stay in front of Austin at all. I like our lineup with TT, Seth and AR best tonight for that reason. Gotta hope Henson and Zeller cool of from outside a bit and BLOCK OUT!

CLW
02-08-2012, 10:10 PM
Can anyone explain why K hasn't at least tried the 2010 "style" of D (aka more compressed/contain)?

This bunch is CLEARLY not as savy/smart/sound/etc.... as the 10 squad but we just cannot stop the ball due to a lack of either quickness or heart/desire. It seems to me that the ONLY chance the 12 squad has of even being a serviceable defense is to sag and try to chase shooters instead of getting blown by leading to wide open dunks/layups.

J4Kop99
02-08-2012, 10:10 PM
It sounds too simple but Duke has to box out. The effort they are giving right now will not cut it. Luckily, on the offensive end, their three's are falling at a high rate. But if the defense is going to continue to be this soft, then UNC will win.

Duke cannot beat UNC if they continue with this effort. They have to slow UNC down on the offensive glass. Right now it is a question of effort... not size or toughness.

The good thing is that Duke is only down by 3. The bad thing is that if Duke actually boxed people out, they would most likely be up 10.

RockyMtDevil
02-08-2012, 10:11 PM
No D, no stopper...We're playing with heart and passion though and that is a step forward. We are who we are.

lotusland
02-08-2012, 10:11 PM
43.5 seconds to go--an obvious 2-for-1 situation--and Bilas even comments on it. Instead, we hold the ball when we can't use up most of the clock and turn it over. I don't get it.
Bilas said the Heels could go 2 fpr 1 after Barnes was fouled quickly. Regardless Duke badly muffed the end of the half again.

#1Duke
02-08-2012, 10:12 PM
I keep being reminded by my referee friend that there is NO such foul call as "over the back." Either it's a push, or it's not a foul.

But to your point, Henson is awesome at doing this and somehow manages NOT to foul. Kudos to him. UNC can ride that to the final four if they can
figure out a way to deal with their lack of PG depth.

Yep, I agree and the PG position is going to hurt the Heels.

diveonthefloor
02-08-2012, 10:12 PM
I honestly would consider leaving Josh in the game, tell him to stick on Henson and shut him down, let him pick up four more fouls if that's what it takes, and try to contain Henson for at least 10 minutes.
(I would rather have him try this on Zeller, but when he fouls Zeller, it's two automatic points.)

60's Devil
02-08-2012, 10:13 PM
Pray for a miracle that we keep hitting threes. Anybody think Mason is a first round pick? Go Devils...you are exceeding my expectations!!!

ncexnyc
02-08-2012, 10:13 PM
Extremely disappointing to control the majority of the half, only to see the lead change at the end. Is Austin the only kid that wants it?

We were fearful of our perimeter D, but the bigs are getting shredded. Is it that hard to box out? I'd love to see Josh lay the wood on Henson.

Quinn, you should be feasting on Stillman White. Take him to the rack.

We are still in this game, just toughen up inside and we'll be fine.

moonpie23
02-08-2012, 10:14 PM
their fans fear henson at the line like we used to about mason.....

anon
02-08-2012, 10:14 PM
This team, which many of you have written off already, is within three points of the #5 team in the nation (and one that apparently the TV announcers would rank even higher) after a tough half of basketball. They led most of the half.

Last year, we were down by 14 to Carolina at the half. AT HOME.

Have you ever watched a Duke-Carolina game?

I'm beginning to think that nothing short of a perfect season would satisfy some of you.

wgl1228
02-08-2012, 10:15 PM
As many have said, Austin seems to be the only player playing with confidence and passion. Everyone else is timid.

CLW
02-08-2012, 10:15 PM
Interesting Tweets by Kenpom:

"Duke's No. 11-in-ACC-play defensive rebounding."

"Controlling tempo is the most overrated "key to the game" of our time. If Duke gets an open look early, take it. UNC is pretty good at D."

J4Kop99
02-08-2012, 10:18 PM
C'mon guys...

2 on 1 and Curry fades out for a three? That's not what you want. If it's JJ, then we have a different story but those guys need to go for the easy lay up.

Can't just shoot three's.

rotogod00
02-08-2012, 10:19 PM
How in the world do you end up with a 3 on a 2 on 1

Gthoma2a
02-08-2012, 10:21 PM
It is getting ugly. Let's see if we have really learned anything or if we are going to fold like we have in the past this year.

rotogod00
02-08-2012, 10:21 PM
No rebounding + no inside play + no defense = big problems

RockyMtDevil
02-08-2012, 10:22 PM
Mason has a dunk and blows it, they go down and get a three point play... And henson keeps hitting jumpers, just not our night. And zero over the back calls. This game is OVER>>>> We are getting owned. It's about to get ugly.

#1Duke
02-08-2012, 10:22 PM
How in the world do you end up with a 3 on a 2 on 1

Our guards have been doing this on several occasions. They get inpatient and want to score big points. Poor shot selection.

diveonthefloor
02-08-2012, 10:22 PM
Duke looking down the throat of a 25 point beat down if our bigs don't step up now and step up big.

MartyClark
02-08-2012, 10:22 PM
We are losing it here. Zeller and Henson are pretty good but we are allowing them far too many easy looks.

-bdbd
02-08-2012, 10:22 PM
Man, play with this kind of first-half intensity and you don't ever lose at home vs Miami OR FSU!

rotogod00
02-08-2012, 10:23 PM
Mason has a dunk and blows it, they go down and get a three point play... And henson keeps hitting jumpers, just not our night. And zero over the back calls. This game is OVER>>>> We are getting owned. It's about to get ugly.

Just not our night or maybe we're just not that good

HateCarolina
02-08-2012, 10:23 PM
I agree the fast break and fading out for a poor set up 3 shot is not a good idea. We just need to settle down and play our own game. Down 10, but not out of it guys.

Gthoma2a
02-08-2012, 10:25 PM
Watching this makes me sick that we had the NBA rookie of the year never even care to participate in this rivalry.

HateCarolina
02-08-2012, 10:25 PM
And then a dumb TO and foul on the other end. Why Duke???

J4Kop99
02-08-2012, 10:25 PM
Aside from Austin, I don't see another Duke player that "wants" it out there on the court. I think that comes from shooting a lot of three's. You start to settle... Austin is the only guy that has stayed in attack mode. Duke isn't getting anything inside.


--Sloppy play by Thornton. a no-look pass into the post, thrown at Mason's foot.

WakeDevil
02-08-2012, 10:25 PM
The officials need to go home if they're not going to call over the back.

rotogod00
02-08-2012, 10:26 PM
Watching this makes me sick that we had the NBA rookie of the year never even care to participate in this rivalry.

Cared more to make millions in the NBA. Can you blame him?

wgl1228
02-08-2012, 10:27 PM
We have so many good shooters but only one can hit? What is the deal with this team?

sporthenry
02-08-2012, 10:27 PM
The officials need to go home if they're not going to call over the back.

Not that it is the only problem. I understand that Duke shoots 3's and all but 16 fouls to 7 is still 16-7.

CLW
02-08-2012, 10:27 PM
I agree only Rivers seems to have that anger/passion/edge/desire. It appears this squad is just physically and mentally SOFT.

Wildling
02-08-2012, 10:28 PM
I had hoped for a better showing by the bigs...

Me too. Mason has the size to bully both of UNC's big's. He just doesn't seem to believe he can.

HateCarolina
02-08-2012, 10:28 PM
I hope your wives and loved ones hid the sleeping pills and razors. There is sOme serious Duke hating going on in here. Come on guys let's try and stay positive (at least until we're under 5 to go). ; )

FerryFor50
02-08-2012, 10:30 PM
Glad Barnes let us all know how bad his ankle was bothering him before this game.

J4Kop99
02-08-2012, 10:31 PM
Was this honestly K's game plan? To just fire away from three point range? He seems to be OK with them doing it.

HateCarolina
02-08-2012, 10:31 PM
Barnes vs Rivers...I like it. And I cannot believe I'm going to say it, but nice sportsmanship on Zeller.

davekay1971
02-08-2012, 10:32 PM
Breakaway, Zeller mugs Plumlee from behind clearly going for the arm, not the ball, with dangerous contact from behind. Wearing any color other than baby blue, that's a flagrant foul.

rotogod00
02-08-2012, 10:32 PM
This team just can't defend

FerryFor50
02-08-2012, 10:32 PM
Beyond the missed shots lack of defense and rebounding.... it's tough to beat Carolina when John Henson is hitting 16-19 foot jumpers and Kendall Marshall is hitting layups.

Mr.Analogy
02-08-2012, 10:34 PM
Was this honestly K's game plan? To just fire away from three point range? He seems to be OK with them doing it.

Maybe K see's that this team doesn't have the heart, the passion, the fire? He's tried to get them going but like others have said they are too soft, with the exception of Rivers. He WANTS to win, he hates losing. The rest of the guys just don't have it in them, plain and simple and I think K has accepted that and is just letting them shoot? Just my take! :D

Devilsfan
02-08-2012, 10:35 PM
Austin has a free hand to do whatever. Doc must be in the house.

FerryFor50
02-08-2012, 10:35 PM
So for a while I didn't really have a UNC player I really hated. Now I do.... Henson.

Not only do I hate that he's good defensively, but I also hate his attitude.

HateCarolina
02-08-2012, 10:36 PM
Beyond the missed shots lack of defense and rebounding.... it's tough to beat Carolina when John Henson is hitting 16-19 foot jumpers and Kendall Marshall is hitting layups.

Very well said. The whole broad side of the barn and our shooting is hurting, but KM getting all the way in from the 3 pt line is RIDICULOUS.

#1Duke
02-08-2012, 10:37 PM
Beyond the missed shots lack of defense and rebounding.... it's tough to beat Carolina when John Henson is hitting 16-19 foot jumpers and Kendall Marshall is hitting layups.


Then we need to come out on Henson and take Marshall as a scorer more seriously.

Kfanarmy
02-08-2012, 10:37 PM
once again...guards are not getting in a defense position...they aren't getting down...trying to stand up right and trail along the play

FerryFor50
02-08-2012, 10:37 PM
Very well said. The whole broad side of the barn and our shooting is hurting, but KM getting all the way in from the 3 pt line is RIDICULOUS.

The thing is, he beats a lot of people off the dribble. He just usually misses the layup. Not against us. Sure the defense isn't great but you still have to make the shot. And they're making everything, contested or not. And when they miss, they get the ball back on the boards. Sigh.

HateCarolina
02-08-2012, 10:38 PM
Maybe K see's that this team doesn't have the heart, the passion, the fire? He's tried to get them going but like others have said they are too soft, with the exception of Rivers. He WANTS to win, he hates losing. The rest of the guys just don't have it in them, plain and simple and I think K has accepted that and is just letting them shoot? Just my take! :D

The issue is no natural leader on the team to speak up and do and say what needs to be said. K is never going to accept mediocrity. That's just a fact of his nature/inner core.

FerryFor50
02-08-2012, 10:39 PM
Then we need to come out on Henson and take Marshall as a scorer more seriously.

They're letting Henson shoot because they're helping on Zeller. It's been stopping Zeller, but everyone else is hitting. At least they're evening out the foul calls this half.