This team is very good...Revisited 2.5 Months Later

[DukeHoopsGuru]

On November 23, 2011 I posted the following:

I am a very infrequent poster. Very. However, I feel the need to post this morning. Simply put, this team is freaking good. Coming into the season I felt this was going to be a journey, and the team would be a tough out come March, but I felt they had Elite 8 potential at best. I feel comfortable in saying just a few games in I am sadly mistaken. This team has exceeded my expectations already. This is not the best Duke team in terms of talent. However, it's been a long time since Duke had 5 to 6 guys that could go double figures every night. This team can have several guys not play well, and they can still beat good teams. The mark of a good team is the ability to beat quality teams when you don't play your best. The Plumlees and Dawkins were pretty absent last night so Kelly, Rivers, and Curry picked up the slack. Rivers was off the other night so Dawkins picked up the slack. Overall, Curry is much better than I think we all thought. He's not lightning quick but he's effective with his movements. There's no wasted motion with him, and he has quick hands. Rivers is only going to get better, and the same with Mason. I think Miles is what he is to an extent though. Great athlete, but just terrible hands, and questionable judgment. Kelly is showing the country what Duke fans saw in China, and Tyler (fouls too much) and Josh are no slouches when needed either. I hope they redshirt Murphy this year, which it appears they are doing.

It doesn't even matter if Duke loses tonight, this team is going to be a tough out come March, and if they're hitting the 3 ball forget it. I said to myself a few times late first half/mid 2nd, "this team is good." They are. The 1 concern we saw last night, which was a carbon copy of the Arizona game was perimeter defense and lapses in team defense for stretches. Both teams shot lights out in the 2nd half, but there were a lot of uncontested good shots. That is the one concern I have. However, Coach K never ceases to amaze me, and the China trip did wonders. I got a text from my buddy the UK graduate last night. He said, "I'd put Duke in the UNC/UK upper echelon. I am not sure if they are in the UNC, OSU, UK (They won't win it all.) category, but they're damn good. This is not a team I'd want to play come March.

Sadly 2 and a half months later the question marks became flat out fatal flaws, and some of the trending positives either plateaued or they got worse. I would like to at least some of the points I made as a check to see how far this Duke team has come since then:

1. The season would be a journey, but this team would be a tough out come march. - It's been a journey all right, but this team doesn't appear to be a tough out come March. Losing in the 1st round is slightly possible, and a 2nd round loss seems highly possible. I think I underestimated the value of the China trip, and the leg up the team had on other teams as a result. I made a mistake. November and December college basketball means nothing. 2010 taught us that.

3. The 1 concern we saw last night, which was a carbon copy of the Arizona game was perimeter defense and lapses in team defense for stretches. - It's no concern. It's a downright acknowledgment of failure. This team is awful defensively. Not just bad. Awful. I am not sure they can get much better. Coach K will tweak some things, but they have 2 fatal flaws that can't be corrected. Lack of length and athleticism on the perimeter. When you combine that with the fact that big mean aren't overly quick, they get absolutely crushed on ball screens. If you haven't noticed teams pick and roll Duke at the perimeter to death. The 2010 wasn't athletic at all, but man were they big and long at all spots. The shortest guy in Nolan was the most athletic.

5. Overall - It's still early February, but this is not a good basketball team right now, and it hasn't been for a while. The China trip put Duke ahead of teams. It was a huge advantage. This team just lost 2 home games to a good team, and a downright mediocre team. And they better hit 3s come March, because I can't remember a worse Duke team defensively. This team is very good revisited now should read this team is fairly good. Very disappointed right now. Coach K is too.

[Kedsy]

November and December college basketball means nothing. 2010 taught us that.

The 2009-10 team had a 11-1 record in November and December. The team had a 10-1 record in March and April. What does that teach us, exactly?

I'm not going to respond to you point by point. But I would like to say that your November post showed you can overreact to a November win, and your post today shows you can overreact to a February loss. At least you're consistent.

[DukeHoopsGuru]

You're right. 2 home losses one of which to a very mediocre team in February is no big deal. The crux of my post is the flaws got worse since November, and the strengths have either regressed or not improved at all. I would say you couldn't overreact from a home loss to Miami in February. That is a bad basketball team. This team has some serious problems.

[slower]

The 2009-10 team had a 11-1 record in November and December. The team had a 10-1 record in March and April. What does that teach us, exactly?

I'm not going to respond to you point by point. But I would like to say that your November post showed you can overreact to a November win, and your post today shows you can overreact to a February loss. At least you're consistent.

Seems to me that he (DukeHoopsGuru) is reacting to more than just ONE loss or bad game. This is Miami, piled on top of several other poor performances and underachievements. I love how, after almost EVERY loss or stinker, somebody will crow about it being a "learning experience." Yeah, they're "learning experiences" - that's for sure.

I'm ready to get pummeled for this, but I'll say it anyway: Why do we continue to stick to a defensive scheme where we continually get abused? At this point, isn't this a coaching issue? Our players, physically, are what they are. No, we are not necessarily "alarmingly unathletic". However, in many cases, we ARE relatively (relative to our opponents) unathletic as a team. That's just the facts, folks.

[nobodybutDUKE]

On November 23, 2011 I posted the following:

I am a very infrequent poster. Very. However, I feel the need to post this morning. Simply put, this team is freaking good. Coming into the season I felt this was going to be a journey, and the team would be a tough out come March, but I felt they had Elite 8 potential at best. I feel comfortable in saying just a few games in I am sadly mistaken. This team has exceeded my expectations already. This is not the best Duke team in terms of talent. However, it's been a long time since Duke had 5 to 6 guys that could go double figures every night. This team can have several guys not play well, and they can still beat good teams. The mark of a good team is the ability to beat quality teams when you don't play your best. The Plumlees and Dawkins were pretty absent last night so Kelly, Rivers, and Curry picked up the slack. Rivers was off the other night so Dawkins picked up the slack. Overall, Curry is much better than I think we all thought. He's not lightning quick but he's effective with his movements. There's no wasted motion with him, and he has quick hands. Rivers is only going to get better, and the same with Mason. I think Miles is what he is to an extent though. Great athlete, but just terrible hands, and questionable judgment. Kelly is showing the country what Duke fans saw in China, and Tyler (fouls too much) and Josh are no slouches when needed either. I hope they redshirt Murphy this year, which it appears they are doing.

It doesn't even matter if Duke loses tonight, this team is going to be a tough out come March, and if they're hitting the 3 ball forget it. I said to myself a few times late first half/mid 2nd, "this team is good." They are. The 1 concern we saw last night, which was a carbon copy of the Arizona game was perimeter defense and lapses in team defense for stretches. Both teams shot lights out in the 2nd half, but there were a lot of uncontested good shots. That is the one concern I have. However, Coach K never ceases to amaze me, and the China trip did wonders. I got a text from my buddy the UK graduate last night. He said, "I'd put Duke in the UNC/UK upper echelon. I am not sure if they are in the UNC, OSU, UK (They won't win it all.) category, but they're damn good. This is not a team I'd want to play come March.

Sadly 2 and a half months later the question marks became flat out fatal flaws, and some of the trending positives either plateaued or they got worse. I would like to at least some of the points I made as a check to see how far this Duke team has come since then:

1. The season would be a journey, but this team would be a tough out come march. - It's been a journey all right, but this team doesn't appear to be a tough out come March. Losing in the 1st round is slightly possible, and a 2nd round loss seems highly possible. I think I underestimated the value of the China trip, and the leg up the team had on other teams as a result. I made a mistake. November and December college basketball means nothing. 2010 taught us that.

3. The 1 concern we saw last night, which was a carbon copy of the Arizona game was perimeter defense and lapses in team defense for stretches. - It's no concern. It's a downright acknowledgment of failure. This team is awful defensively. Not just bad. Awful. I am not sure they can get much better. Coach K will tweak some things, but they have 2 fatal flaws that can't be corrected. Lack of length and athleticism on the perimeter. When you combine that with the fact that big mean aren't overly quick, they get absolutely crushed on ball screens. If you haven't noticed teams pick and roll Duke at the perimeter to death. The 2010 wasn't athletic at all, but man were they big and long at all spots. The shortest guy in Nolan was the most athletic.

5. Overall - It's still early February, but this is not a good basketball team right now, and it hasn't been for a while. The China trip put Duke ahead of teams. It was a huge advantage. This team just lost 2 home games to a good team, and a downright mediocre team. And they better hit 3s come March, because I can't remember a worse Duke team defensively. This team is very good revisited now should read this team is fairly good. Very disappointed right now. Coach K is too.

I know as a Duke fan this quote does not mean you don't love your team, because I know you do. The truth is
hard sometimes, but I think for the most part you are speaking from the heart and are mostly correct.

A projection today is certainly easier than it would be November 1st, as is a summation on April 1. What it really
shows is all fans have their passion and views at any given moment or day.

The future doesn't look very bright right now, but it didn't in 2010 either. I am not saying this team is a 2010 but
let's hang in there and give them all we've got. Hopefully, the team will give us all they've got.

[DukeHoopsGuru]

Seems to me that he (DukeHoopsGuru) is reacting to more than just ONE loss or bad game. This is Miami, piled on top of several other poor performances and underachievements. I love how, after almost EVERY loss or stinker, somebody will crow about it being a "learning experience." Yeah, they're "learning experiences" - that's for sure.

I'm ready to get pummeled for this, but I'll say it anyway: Why do we continue to stick to a defensive scheme where we continually get abused? At this point, isn't this a coaching issue? Our players, physically, are what they are. No, we are not necessarily "alarmingly unathletic". However, in many cases, we ARE relatively (relative to our opponents) unathletic as a team. That's just the facts, folks.

This. it's not like Miami is their only loss. They've now lost 2 home games to inferior teams in roughly 2 weeks. That's an issue. Keep drawing parallels to the 2010 team. That team never lost a home game. There are few little nuggets to take with you into March. There are not a lot of them since the tournament is a completely different animal. One of them is home losses. Conference losses on the road aren't the end of the world. However, home losses say something. They especially say something when you lose 2 of them 2 inferior opponents in roughly 2 weeks late in the year. One of which, is very inferior. That is not an overreaction. That is a fact.

[lotusland]

Well I agree with most of what you said as far as this team's weaknesses but teams/players don't stop getting better just because it's February. I'm encouraged because AR gets better every game and because we played good defense in the second half yesterday. I'm pretty sure UConn lost some home conference games during the season last year so there is no reason to to give up on this team. The odds are always against making the final four and the oddds are even greater for this team but most teams go into the tournament with only an outside shot realistically.

I agree that most of our limitations are physical limitations so even though I'm disapointed after losses I don't fault the players for not playing hard. I think for Duke to be the best they can be we need for Quin to stay healthy and continue to improve and for Ryan to become a better rebounder and to stop dribbling into traffic. He can drive fine against bigs but he doesn't see the double team coming and get's in trouble too much. His outside scoring is gravy but helping Milles and Mason on the boards is essential. Mason and Rivers are both very good players who we need to become "great" players and leaders. Between, Seth, Ryan, Dre and Quin I think we can count on a third scorer most games so the key is defense and rebounding. We need Andre's size in the game but he needs to tighten up on D and especially on the boards. I see his defense as being not horrible but not great either but he doesn't board well at all.

There 's still time for improvement and if they can pull out a win Wenesday I'll be as happy as a clam until the next game.

[Scorp4me]

b. Tyler Thornton - Needs to play less. A lot less. He fouls the moment the steps on the floor, and he's overrated defensively. Cook needs to get his minutes if his health permits it. This is a must.

I know people probably think all I do is defend Tyler, but it's only because he is constantly getting dumped on. Look I'm a fan of his tenacity I admit it, but he's not my favorite player on the team. I just think he gets @#$# on entirely too much. I say if he is on the line at the end of the game we win. Maybe it's good he isn't and we lose, maybe we learn something from it. But the complain about fouls is ridiculous, he's doing what he is asked to do. As for being overrated defensively, I don't think that passes the numbers test (that's a fact from some of the other threads) and it doesn't pass the eye test. His stats are glowing, but good things happen (sometimes strangely fortuitous things happen) when he is on the floor.

[mcches]

Clearly, a lot of us are disappointed with the effort and skill set of this years team. We've come to expect so much. While I am bummed about our two home losses, I would not charactize FSU and Miami as only good and mediocre. FSU is an outstanding team of veterans amd Miami is a veteran team that has underachieved this year. Look at their talent - two enormous inside players and very talented and athletic guards. With Reggie Johnson getting back into shape and rounding into form, this is very dangerous team that could give a physically weak Carolina team a run for the money. I don't see Zeller and Henson stopping Johnson and Kadji inside.

Back to Duke though. I keep asking myself why I have such high expectations for an inexperienced team that lost two senior All-Amercans and the #1 draft pick in the NBA and possible rookie of the year.

[PADukeMom]

I would hope this loss would be our G-Town moment like it was in 2010. It was after that loss that I first said Duke will win it all in Indy. It was the pure look of angered frustration I saw in Kyle & Nolan that made me a believer in that team.
I saw none of that yesterday afternoon. Given that I was watching on a laptop I couldn't see the players eyes all that well but I did notice body language. K's anger/frustration I could see! Would have loved to be a fly on the wall in the locker room.
Hopefully this will be this teams' G-Town moment. I just get the impression that no one is ready to step-up & take charge. Free throws continue to haunt this team. 0-6 in OT. If Austin would have hit bot free throws in regulation...if Ryan's 3 pointer would have went in....I am still a believer but dang.

I wonder what Trajan Langdon is doing right now???

[DukeHoopsGuru]

Back to Duke though. I keep asking myself why I have such high expectations for an inexperienced team that lost two senior All-Amercans and the #1 draft pick in the NBA and possible rookie of the year.

I think you hit on something here. I think the team you see now is the team most of us expected. The quality wins early in the season surprisingly changed our expectations.

[slower]

I would hope this loss would be our G-Town moment like it was in 2010.

I thought Temple - I mean, FSU - I mean, OSU - was our "Georgetown moment."

[slower]

With Reggie Johnson getting back into shape and rounding into form, this is very dangerous team that could give a physically weak Carolina team a run for the money. I don't see Zeller and Henson stopping Johnson and Kadji inside.


Wow. Really?

Look, I know it's fashionable here to hate/insult/denigrate the Holes, but let's not drink too much kool-aid.

[Kedsy]

They especially say something when you lose 2 of them 2 inferior opponents in roughly 2 weeks late in the year. One of which, is very inferior. That is not an overreaction. That is a fact.

I'm not sure it's as much of a "fact" as you think it is. Miami is not "very inferior." They have less quality depth than we do, but they're actually pretty similar to Duke:

Reggie Johnson/Mason Plumlee -- comparable players; I think you have to give an edge to Johnson, though, at least head-to-head.

Kenny Kadji/Ryan Kelly -- very similar players, big men who can shoot from the outside. No edge, either way, although Kadji outplayed Ryan yesterday.

Durand Scott/Austin Rivers -- very similar styles; I'd give Austin the edge, but Scott has the experience, scores almost as much as Austin, and over the course of the season has both rebounded and assisted at a better rate than Austin.

Malcolm Grant/Seth Curry -- comparable players; Grant is not shooting as well this season as he has in the past, but he was good enough to be third-team all-ACC last season. He's also a lot bigger than Seth. No edge, although Seth outplayed Grant yesterday.

Shane Larkin/Quinn Cook -- I think in the long run, Quinn will be better, but right now these two are similar. Larkin gave us fits with his quickness and has a good nose for the ball.

DeQuan Jones/Miles Plumlee -- I think Miles is a little better, but Jones is a serviceable third big

Trey McKinney Jones & Rion Brown vs. Andre Dawkins, Tyler Thornton, Josh Hairston -- They don't have anybody nearly as good as Andre, but Jones and Brown are both good three-point shooters and are both around Andre's size. Plus, in yesterdays' game, Andre, Tyler, and Josh all played 14 minutes or less, so it's not like they had that much opportunity to shape the outcome of the game.

Miami's defense is about the same as ours, and they shoot threes about the same as we do, both in quantity and in percentage. They don't have Coach K, but Larranaga is a good coach. I think Miami's a pretty good team.

[DukeHoopsGuru]

I'm not sure it's as much of a "fact" as you think it is. Miami is not "very inferior." They have less quality depth than we do, but they're actually pretty similar to Duke:

Reggie Johnson/Mason Plumlee -- comparable players; I think you have to give an edge to Johnson, though, at least head-to-head.

Kenny Kadji/Ryan Kelly -- very similar players, big men who can shoot from the outside. No edge, either way, although Kadji outplayed Ryan yesterday.

Durand Scott/Austin Rivers -- very similar styles; I'd give Austin the edge, but Scott has the experience, scores almost as much as Austin, and over the course of the season has both rebounded and assisted at a better rate than Austin.

Malcolm Grant/Seth Curry -- comparable players; Grant is not shooting as well this season as he has in the past, but he was good enough to be third-team all-ACC last season. He's also a lot bigger than Seth. No edge, although Seth outplayed Grant yesterday.

Shane Larkin/Quinn Cook -- I think in the long run, Quinn will be better, but right now these two are similar. Larkin gave us fits with his quickness and has a good nose for the ball.

DeQuan Jones/Miles Plumlee -- I think Miles is a little better, but Jones is a serviceable third big

Trey McKinney Jones & Rion Brown vs. Andre Dawkins, Tyler Thornton, Josh Hairston -- They don't have anybody nearly as good as Andre, but Jones and Brown are both good three-point shooters and are both around Andre's size. Plus, in yesterdays' game, Andre, Tyler, and Josh all played 14 minutes or less, so it's not like they had that much opportunity to shape the outcome of the game.

Miami's defense is about the same as ours, and they shoot threes about the same as we do, both in quantity and in percentage. They don't have Coach K, but Larranaga is a good coach. I think Miami's a pretty good team.

Yep. 14-7 is a good team. If that's your barometer than my thread is dead on. Duke is an overachieving in reality 14-7 type team. If that's your stance we're cool.

[JayBean]

Keep some perspective...

-We have a team that is trying to get over the lose of two core players (Kyle and Nolan were the leaders) as well as the #1 pick in the draft.
-Two of our perimeter players are freshmen, one who did not get a full preseason with the team
-Our team has some limitations physically
-We have 4 loses. Two of those came against high quality teams (OSU and FSU). The other two, while upsetting, could have been won, even though we
may not deserve those wins.
-We have an inexperienced team in the sense that no one on this team has had a leadership role quite like what we need now.

Here are some reasons why the world may not be ending in a smelly, carolina-blue tinged flame...

1) Our key freshmen will get a lot better. In last night's game, Quin did not act like a point guard in the last couple of possessions. Learning experience. Quin had to get the hero-ball notion out of his system. It sucks, but I'd rather he learns the lessons now than in March when he can't change his game/approach significantly.

2) We have more depth than in the past. This means practices can be tough and players can grow in between games a lot more than in the past.

3) When this team is clicking (it happened last night in the second half for stretches), it can really hum. The real trick is to keep it running right.

I am an optimist. It is a blessing, it is a curse. But I do think that, if this team keeps growing, it will be quite respectable come March. Unless you have a loaded team (92, 2001, etc), you can't expect much more than that. Just hope you get hot at the right time.

While I would love a win Wednesday night, I really just want us to play with passion and pride. That's all I can really ask for in one game.

[Kedsy]

Yep. 14-7 is a good team. If that's your barometer than my thread is dead on. Duke is an overachieving in reality 14-7 type team. If that's your stance we're cool.

I thought you were just frustrated, so I went into a lot of detail about why the teams were similar, and that's your response. So your "stance" is the only way you can judge a team is win/loss record? How did FSU destroy UNC, then? How did Ohio State lose to Illinois and Indiana?

See, if the reason you think Miami is "downright mediocre" is because they lost 7 games, I have news for you. It just so happens that Reggie Johnson missed Miami's first 9 games (and DeQuan Jones missed their first 10). Since Johnson has returned, Miami is 9-3, with a loss @UNC, a one-point loss @UVa, and a five-point loss to NC State. In that same stretch, Duke is 10-3. Ohio State is 11-2, Kansas is 11-3, Missouri is 11-2, Baylor is 12-2, Michigan State is 9-3. Seems to me if win/loss is all that matters, Miami is stacking up pretty well.

Are we still cool?

[mr. synellinden]

This team just lost 2 home games to a good team, and a downright mediocre team. This team is very good revisited now should read this team is fairly good. Very disappointed right now.

I could have written the same thing about the NY Giants about two months ago after they lost at home to the Washington Redskins. And try to think about what people were writing on UConn message boards about this time last year.

That's not to say Duke will or is necessarily capable of turning it around and making a championship run. I agree that right now this team is horrible defensively. I also agree with some of the other observations, namely:

Thornton needs to be our primary PG backup, not a starter. He is too much of a liability on offense and I don't think he is nearly as good defensively as his reputation. He is relatively slow and has a hard time staying in front of a guard with average quickness. Cook is inexperienced as evidenced by the wild shot he took late in the game yesterday - but he is very talented and getting better defensively. I think him "turning into a sophomore" by the time the postseason starts is our best chance to go far in March.

Dawkins is a weak defender right now. I think part of it is mental and motivation, and part of it is technique. I think he gets too low in his defensive stance with his feet too wide apart and this causes him to have trouble moving laterally.

Rivers is the only player capable of carrying this team. He needs to have the ball in his hands during critical possessions - and he must make his free throws.

There appears to be a lack of cohesiveness and communication on defense which leads to a lot of missed assignments and lack of help. This is either a chemistry issue, poor coaching, or just a product of having below average individual defenders - maybe a combination of all 3.

This leads to something that seems apparent to me - I really think there is a chemistry problem with this team. ACKNOWLEDGMENT - THIS IS PURE SPECULATION. But the body language, on court interactions between the players, and apparent lack of fire can't be explained any other way. I don't know if some of the older players (particularly Curry and Kelly) have issues with Rivers and his cockiness, but it SEEMS like they at times get frustrated playing with him. If that's the case, then this is something that can only be addressed by the coaching staff.

Despite all this, there is a lot of talent on the roster, and from the early season wins we've seen how well they are capable of playing. So, they have the potential. It's now a question of whether the individuals are willing to accept responsibility for playing up to their potential. I brought up the Giants and UConn to make the point that teams are capable of turning a season around seemingly without warning. A win on Wednesday would be a good time to do it.

[jkidd31]

I think the signs of the intensity lapses were there early in the season. They let MSU back in that game, and I think if it hadn't been for all the hoopla surrounding Coach K breaking the record it might have been examined more. That said it's a long season and it all come down to who gets hot in mid March. Depending on match ups this team can go to the Final Four or get beat first w/e....just like about almost every team out there.

[UrinalCake]

I thought Temple - I mean, FSU - I mean, OSU - was our "Georgetown moment."

Temple was our "NC State moment." OSU was our "Wisconsin moment." FSU was our "Georgetown moment." I think we're all out of moments.

[dw0827]

The lack of quality leadership is this team's fatal flaw . . . and the team will not recover from it.

When I refer to "quality leadership" I mean having guys on the team who REFUSE TO LOSE, are able to back it up with their game, and are able to impart their attitude on the team. This team doesn't have anyone like that . . . except maybe Austin but I suspect he's too young and while he may wish to lead, the others won't follow.

The type of leadership I'm talking about isn't suddenly going to appear in mid-February. It isn't in their bones. It simply isn't who they are. It's not their fault. They are all fine kids and talented players. But they don't have that look that says I WILL NOT LOSE THIS GAME. Great Duke teams have that. This one doesn't.

[78 Forever's team]

The lack of quality leadership is this team's fatal flaw . . . and the team will not recover from it.

When I refer to "quality leadership" I mean having guys on the team who REFUSE TO LOSE, are able to back it up with their game, and are able to impart their attitude on the team. This team doesn't have anyone like that . . . except maybe Austin but I suspect he's too young and while he may wish to lead, the others won't follow.

The type of leadership I'm talking about isn't suddenly going to appear in mid-February. It isn't in their bones. It simply isn't who they are. It's not their fault. They are all fine kids and talented players. But they don't have that look that says I WILL NOT LOSE THIS GAME. Great Duke teams have that. This one doesn't.

Go back and look at Bobby Hurley in the NCAA championship game against UNLV. Did he have that look? Fast forward to the next year year when he drove the nail into UNLV's coffin with a 3. It's not in anyone's bones, it's born of adversity. Let see if someone steps up.

[Devilsfan]

The woman sitting next to me said "boy they're really showcasing Rivers, in past years it was very rare to have a freshmen get the green light to shoot like he does". I didn't expect that comment from her. However it made me wonder why he IS allowed to pull the trigger so quickly in the offense possession so often. I don't mind him taking threes but why not let others touch the ball on EVERY possession? He has been getting more assists lately but sometimes he does come down the floor and just jacks up a three. I guess it's fine because K allows it and who better knows the game. Just wondering. P.S. I really like his crossover and drive. When he finishes it's a thing of beauty.

[duke09hms]

The woman sitting next to me said "boy they're really showcasing Rivers, in past years it was very rare to have a freshmen get the green light to shoot like he does". I didn't expect that comment from her. However it made me wonder why he IS allowed to pull the trigger so quickly in the offense possession so often. I don't mind him taking threes but why not let others touch the ball on EVERY possession? He has been getting more assists lately but sometimes he does come down the floor and just jacks up a three. I guess it's fine because K allows it and who better knows the game. Just wondering. P.S. I really like his crossover and drive. When he finishes it's a thing of beauty.

Because Austin is the only one that cares enough that hates losing enough and has enough confidence to do something about being blown out by a mediocre/average Miami team at home.

[dw0827]

Go back and look at Bobby Hurley in the NCAA championship game against UNLV. Did he have that look? Fast forward to the next year year when he drove the nail into UNLV's coffin with a 3. It's not in anyone's bones, it's born of adversity. Let see if someone steps up.

Bobby Hurley was so sick that game he could barely stand. He had the look of death.

Basically, I just disagree with you. I don't think it's born of adversity. I do believe that, perhaps, over time someone can develop leadership skills . . . but not in the setting and short-term situation we are talking about. And that is exactly my point. I don't think anyone will step up because no one on this team is capable of stepping up and providing the inspired leadership that we need.

But you know what? I hope you are right and I am wrong. I'll gladly concede the point to you if it happens. With pleasure.

[Kedsy]

The lack of quality leadership is this team's fatal flaw . . . and the team will not recover from it.

Well, thanks for that. I guess now we don't have to bother watching the rest of the season.

[Matches]

K has spoiled us. He's pulled rabbits out of his hat so many times that we've come to think he can do it at will.

Sometimes a team's problems can't be fixed by being coaxed to play harder. Sometimes there's not a simple lineup change that makes all the difference. I actually think K has done a good job with this team, but if he's been guilty of anything, he's maybe tinkered a bit *too* much. It seems like every time we lose or perform poorly, the expectation is that K will bawl the team out and the walk-ons will start the next game. Not sure that's productive in the long-run - it's a well that can only be tapped so many times.

We have a good team. We do not have a great team. Hard work and intensity are always welcome and will make the team better, but they will not transform a bad defensive team into a good defensive team in the next four weeks. My hope for the rest of the year is that we see a more consistent effort, a team that looks happier out there - but y'know if that light doesn't go on after repeated attempts - sometimes even a HOF coach might not be able to light it.

[Kedsy]

Because Austin is the only one that cares enough that hates losing enough and has enough confidence to do something about being blown out by a mediocre/average Miami team at home.

You think Austin achieved the comeback against Miami all by himself? Not what I saw.

[duke09hms]

You think Austin achieved the comeback against Miami all by himself? Not what I saw.

You're reading far beyond what my statement said. Austin did however keep Duke in the game in the first half until Seth and Quinn woke up and helped to bring us back.

He is the player we have that consistently shows top-notch effort. Except maybe Tyler, but he lacks a similar level of talent to make as large an impact.

[TheDevilMadeMeDoIt]

K has spoiled us. He's pulled rabbits out of his hat so many times that we've come to think he can do it at will.

Sometimes a team's problems can't be fixed by being coaxed to play harder. Sometimes there's not a simple lineup change that makes all the difference. I actually think K has done a good job with this team, but if he's been guilty of anything, he's maybe tinkered a bit *too* much. It seems like every time we lose or perform poorly, the expectation is that K will bawl the team out and the walk-ons will start the next game. Not sure that's productive in the long-run - it's a well that can only be tapped so many times.

We have a good team. We do not have a great team. Hard work and intensity are always welcome and will make the team better, but they will not transform a bad defensive team into a good defensive team in the next four weeks. My hope for the rest of the year is that we see a more consistent effort, a team that looks happier out there - but y'know if that light doesn't go on after repeated attempts - sometimes even a HOF coach might not be able to light it.

I don't post on this board much, but tonight I can't resist. I do not mean any disrespect, but I am amazed at how many seem to question what Coach K does. Sure I was pissed yesterday in the first half, but the team put in real effort the second half. I have no idea how we will end up the year. I could see a repeat of the Josh McRoberts' year or a repeat of 2010. I am about Coach K's age, and I just plan to enjoy the rest of the ride with him for a as long as he wants to drive the bus. GO DUKE, CRUNCH UNCH!

[Kishiznit]

Greatest Coaching Staff in Basketball



When I heard this comment a few months ago, I was skeptical at first but a very nice pedigree IMHO when you look at tenure on the bench as assistants and as the primary at the highest level.

Everyone now talks about "no leader on the floor or locker room"....forget this. We have the greatest Koach in the history of sport and if he says the staff he has assembled around him is the greatest in the game, trust him; they should be the leaders.

As an outsider that is able to get to Durham only a couple of times each year, I do not understand the "Capel to the middle of the bench" move but I do appreicate this more than the "Capel speaking through Wojo to tell Koach K this" move since it appears early in the year his in-game dialogue was limited.

I'm Kounting on this staff to lay down exactly what it will take to win Wednesday and the kids will deliver. This should not require an "after Time Out team huddle to reiterate what the Koach just told us or I will kick your butt" speech from an upperclassman. I want the kids to listen and seize the moment and when we get the heck out of chapel hell with an 82-69 victory everyone on this board will realize that there will be a different player that steps up each night for the remainder of the year BUT the leaders will be wearing the suit and ties preparing our kids to compete for the next game.

[JNort]

The lack of quality leadership is this team's fatal flaw . . . and the team will not recover from it.

When I refer to "quality leadership" I mean having guys on the team who REFUSE TO LOSE, are able to back it up with their game, and are able to impart their attitude on the team. This team doesn't have anyone like that . . . except maybe Austin but I suspect he's too young and while he may wish to lead, the others won't follow.

The type of leadership I'm talking about isn't suddenly going to appear in mid-February. It isn't in their bones. It simply isn't who they are. It's not their fault. They are all fine kids and talented players. But they don't have that look that says I WILL NOT LOSE THIS GAME. Great Duke teams have that. This one doesn't.

I disagree completely. Austin Rivers fits exactly to the mold of a guy who "Refuses to lose and is able to back it up with his game" Quinn as well as Tyler also show the same form of attitude but have less talent at this point in their carers but both appear to be better team leaders and are better at getting the others pumped.

[DukieInBrasil]

We have a better road record in ACC play than at home. When was the last time that ever happened?

[dw0827]

I disagree completely. Austin Rivers fits exactly to the mold of a guy who "Refuses to lose and is able to back it up with his game" Quinn as well as Tyler also show the same form of attitude but have less talent at this point in their carers but both appear to be better team leaders and are better at getting the others pumped.

If you read the next sentence of my post, you will see that I basically agree with you on AR. I merely question the team's willingness to accept him as their leader. Quinn? Tyler? Nope, IMHO.

And Kedsey, by all means enjoy the rest of the season. I will. I just don't expect a magical end to the season. But I also don't require one. I'll enjoy whatever they are able to achieve.

[Devilsfan]

What's different about this year than years past? Coach K has hand picked his team, while young and without two overachieving All Americans and a top pick in the NBA draft the team's intensity is lacking on a consistent basis. There is absolutely no "killer" instinct to put teams away. K once solely the head coach now seems to be more of a CEO with two veteran associate head coaches. Something is different. I have been probably unfairly judging Austin by Kyrie up until now but I have come around to admire his desire to win. Mason is playing great ball. Until I can pinpoint it on this potentially talent laden group of athletes I am calling it the "JC" factor. Just my gut feelings for whatever it's worth.

[Kedsy]

But I also don't require one. I'll enjoy whatever they are able to achieve.

OK, then we are in total agreement on that.

[78 Forever's team]

Bobby Hurley was so sick that game he could barely stand. He had the look of death.

Basically, I just disagree with you. I don't think it's born of adversity. I do believe that, perhaps, over time someone can develop leadership skills . . . but not in the setting and short-term situation we are talking about. And that is exactly my point. I don't think anyone will step up because no one on this team is capable of stepping up and providing the inspired leadership that we need.

But you know what? I hope you are right and I am wrong. I'll gladly concede the point to you if it happens. With pleasure.

Point granted, he was sick as a dog, but even at 100% he was no match for UNLV that night. In a later interview he acknowledged being humiliated and actually speculated that K kept him in sear the memory. His performance the next year was definitely redemptive and was especially important to the program because Duke had always been considered too soft, too academically focused, not athletic enough to win the big one etc. But I share your frustration that no one looks like they're going to step up and be that guy who is going to lead by example on the floor. I don't think it's going to be Rivers or Curry, and it's probably too early for Cook, so maybe it's Mason. Big match-up for him tomorrow. Keep the faith.

[PADukeMom]

Temple was our "NC State moment." OSU was our "Wisconsin moment." FSU was our "Georgetown moment." I think we're all out of moments.

Pardon me for asking but why are you giving up on this team? IIRC the 2010 lost to Maryland in February AFTER they lost to G-Town. This is February & I'd rather lose in February than in March. This team just needs someone to step-up & say "I got it". I watched the last few minutes of the 2001 game against Maryland where we were down 57 seconds left & the Maryland fans started their "overrated" chant. J-Will & Nate ended up tying the game & sending it into OT. When OT started I heard J Will say "this is ours". We need that leader to step-up. We know it's not going to be Miles, I worry about it coming from a freshman, so it has got to be either Seth or Dre.
For me personally I won't give up on my boys until we don't have a game left to play althought I will admit if things don't go well tomorrow....

[rsvman]

Nobody wins them all.

None of you, as fans, are entitled to anything.

Cheer on the team. Rejoice with them when they win. Mourn with them, briefly, when they lose, and then get behind them again. Quit nitpicking about heart, and leadership, and (God forbid) character flaws in these fine, hard-working young men who are trying their best.

Whatever happens, happens. If we beat UNC at Chapel Hill tomorrow, I will be ecstatic. The neighbors will hear me rejoicing. If we lose, I'll be unhappy; but I won't criticize the players. And I'll root for them and support them just as much when they take the court again. Even if they lose every game for the remainder of the season.


Finally, please remember that basketball is a game.

[slower]

Temple was our "NC State moment." OSU was our "Wisconsin moment." FSU was our "Georgetown moment." I think we're all out of moments.

I feel you on that. So I guess we'll just have to wait until "it clicks" or somebody finally "gets it" or (our latest answer) somebody says "I got this."

And to everybody who gets defensive whenever somebody is critical of the team, let me just remind you: WE ARE SUPPOSED TO WIN THESE GAMES. According to the rankings, according to sites like Kenpom and according to Vegas betting lines, Duke is EXPECTED to win these games (not OSU, but almost all of the others). So, in light of actual results not living up to expectations, this is perfectly normal human response. Is there some reason that this confuses you?

This doesn't necessarily make us "bad fans" (just like it doesn't necessarily make others Pollyannas or ostriches) - this is just how human beings react.

So, in light of our recent underperforming, and the fact that we are EXPECTED to lose tomorrow night, don't be surprised if people are upset after the UNC game. I'm not saying it's going to be 82-50 in reverse, but, unfortunately, it IS in the conversation. I don't expect us to get crushed like that, but I won't be totally surprised if we do. The question becomes, based on expectations, where's the line between a "good" loss and a "bad" loss?

[Kfanarmy]

Greatest Coaching Staff in Basketball


As an outsider that is able to get to Durham only a couple of times each year, I do not understand the "Capel to the middle of the bench" move but I do appreicate this more than the "Capel speaking through Wojo to tell Koach K this" move since it appears early in the year his in-game dialogue was limited. I think the players want to play hard, so I think there may be something else damping their energy. If the coaches have tried everything they can think of with the players, it may be time to look at changes in the how/what the coaching staff is doing. I've wondered since the very beginning what the impact of bringing a new-old coach back into the fold would be...who knows perhaps the kinks haven't been worked out yet with reintroduction of a senior coach to the team...and then letting him control part of the bench...

[Kedsy]

...although I will admit if things don't go well tomorrow....

If things don't go well tomorrow then they don't go well. The 1991 team lost by 26 to UNC in the ACC tournament and never lost again.

This team has some flaws, but all teams do. We're two possessions from being undefeated in the conference, and if those two possessions went our way we're not even having this discussion, although there wouldn't be any true difference in the quality of the team. For some reason, some people aren't willing to wait and see how things play out. (And I don't mean you, PADukeMom, I just happened to quote you to preface my rant.) Either the team will learn to bring the effort every play or they won't. If they do, most of us will be happy. If they don't... well, I for one would rather wait until after it happens to have that discussion.

[Kedsy]

Nobody wins them all.

None of you, as fans, are entitled to anything.

Cheer on the team. Rejoice with them when they win. Mourn with them, briefly, when they lose, and then get behind them again. Quit nitpicking about heart, and leadership, and (God forbid) character flaws in these fine, hard-working young men who are trying their best.

Whatever happens, happens. If we beat UNC at Chapel Hill tomorrow, I will be ecstatic. The neighbors will hear me rejoicing. If we lose, I'll be unhappy; but I won't criticize the players. And I'll root for them and support them just as much when they take the court again. Even if they lose every game for the remainder of the season.


Finally, please remember that basketball is a game.

Thanks for that. You said it much better than I did.

[Kfanarmy]

Nobody wins them all.

None of you, as fans, are entitled to anything.

Cheer on the team. Rejoice with them when they win. Mourn with them, briefly, when they lose, and then get behind them again. Quit nitpicking about heart, and leadership, and (God forbid) character flaws in these fine, hard-working young men who are trying their best.

Whatever happens, happens. If we beat UNC at Chapel Hill tomorrow, I will be ecstatic. The neighbors will hear me rejoicing. If we lose, I'll be unhappy; but I won't criticize the players. And I'll root for them and support them just as much when they take the court again. Even if they lose every game for the remainder of the season.


Finally, please remember that basketball is a game. for the most part I agree with you except I believe fans are entitled to one thing: a team that gives its all. Not saying anyone isn't.

and frankly while "failure is always an option" for fans; I certainly don't expect the guys on the court to feel that way going into any game or posession, or loose ball situation, or free throw...you get the idea. it ain't life and death, but players should play like its a close second.

[sagegrouse]

The lack of quality leadership is this team's fatal flaw . . . and the team will not recover from it.

Two thoughts here -- while the leadership is not as evident as in 2010, this is a team of offensive-oriented guys who need to remind themselves to play D.

Also WRT to fatal flaw -- what the heck do you mean? This is going to be like 2007 -- an 8-8 conference team which doesn't win and end-of-the-season game? You may be right, but I would be astonished if this team doesn't do "Miles" better than that. Or, if its only that the team loses in the NCAA tournament, why should Duke be condemned for losing due to lack of leadership when the other 66 teams that lose will not be?


When I refer to "quality leadership" I mean having guys on the team who REFUSE TO LOSE, are able to back it up with their game, and are able to impart their attitude on the team. This team doesn't have anyone like that . . . except maybe Austin but I suspect he's too young and while he may wish to lead, the others won't follow.

You know, other teams are allowed to have great leadership and really good players. In fact, Duke teams with great leaders and players have often failed to get the job done -- 2005 and 2002, for example. Not to mention 1965 (Marin, Verga and Vacendak) and 1979 (Spanarkel, Gman, and the gang).


The type of leadership I'm talking about isn't suddenly going to appear in mid-February. It isn't in their bones. It simply isn't who they are. It's not their fault. They are all fine kids and talented players. But they don't have that look that says I WILL NOT LOSE THIS GAME. Great Duke teams have that. This one doesn't.

I dunno, DW, maybe this is a team going through a rough patch that is trying and will succeed in finding itself. I don't see any divisions or dissensions on the team that suggest a lack of leadership or a lack of cohesion (which itself suggests leadership issues). Next play!

sagegrouse

[airowe]

Clearly, a lot of us are disappointed with the effort and skill set of this years team. We've come to expect so much. While I am bummed about our two home losses, I would not charactize FSU and Miami as only good and mediocre. FSU is an outstanding team of veterans amd Miami is a veteran team that has underachieved this year. Look at their talent - two enormous inside players and very talented and athletic guards. With Reggie Johnson getting back into shape and rounding into form, this is very dangerous team that could give a physically weak Carolina team a run for the money. I don't see Zeller and Henson stopping Johnson and Kadji inside.

Back to Duke though. I keep asking myself why I have such high expectations for an inexperienced team that lost two senior All-Amercans and the #1 draft pick in the possible rookie of the year.


I think you hit on something here. I think the team you see now is the team most of us expected. The quality wins early in the season surprisingly changed our expectations.

Looking honestly at the situation, I think it's easy to forget just how many question marks there were heading into this season. What the coaching staff did to get this team to perform at such a high level early in the year was impressive.

[UrinalCake]

Pardon me for asking but why are you giving up on this team? IIRC the 2010 lost to Maryland in February AFTER they lost to G-Town. This is February & I'd rather lose in February than in March. This team just needs someone to step-up & say "I got it". I watched the last few minutes of the 2001 game against Maryland where we were down 57 seconds left & the Maryland fans started their "overrated" chant. J-Will & Nate ended up tying the game & sending it into OT. When OT started I heard J Will say "this is ours". We need that leader to step-up. We know it's not going to be Miles, I worry about it coming from a freshman, so it has got to be either Seth or Dre.
For me personally I won't give up on my boys until we don't have a game left to play althought I will admit if things don't go well tomorrow....

Sorry if my tone didn't carry through... I haven't given up on this team at all! Was trying to poke a little bit of fun. We've had four losses this season and after every one I hear someone comparing it to the Georgetown game and expecting it to serve as the turning point of the season. I just think it's a little silly to keep comparing our team to 2010 and specifically to compare every loss to that Georgetown loss.

[Kedsy]

Sorry if my tone didn't carry through... I haven't given up on this team at all! Was trying to poke a little bit of fun. We've had four losses this season and after every one I hear someone comparing it to the Georgetown game and expecting it to serve as the turning point of the season. I just think it's a little silly to keep comparing our team to 2010 and specifically to compare every loss to that Georgetown loss.

That's a good point. Other than the Ohio State game, they should all be compared to the Wisconsin loss.


(jk)

[MChambers]

That's a good point. Other than the Ohio State game, they should all be compared to the Wisconsin loss.


(jk)
How about the NC State loss? In conference, crushed by a weak team.

[sagegrouse]

That's a good point. Other than the Ohio State game, they should all be compared to the Wisconsin loss.


(jk)

I would apply Tolstoy as a dictum: "Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."

Victories = happy families

Losses = unhappy families. And they are all different.

sage

[MChambers]

I would apply Tolstoy as a dictum: "Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."

Victories = happy families

Losses = unhappy families. And they are all different.

sage
You also could apply Dickens. And it is his birthday, I understand.

[azzefkram]

You're reading far beyond what my statement said. Austin did however keep Duke in the game in the first half until Seth and Quinn woke up and helped to bring us back.

He is the player we have that consistently shows top-notch effort. Except maybe Tyler, but he lacks a similar level of talent to make as large an impact.

Quin didn't have to wake up, he had to be put in the game. He has been grossly underutilized this season. Maybe some of it is illness/injury related, I don't know.

[duke09hms]

Quin didn't have to wake up, he had to be put in the game. He has been grossly underutilized this season. Maybe some of it is illness/injury related, I don't know.

It seems much of it is due to illness/injury/conditioning. The kid was shut down in preseason to allow his knee to fully heal, was working back into the rotation, then got the flu, and also seemed to tweak his knee again.

Im really not happy about the coaches at Oak Hill that made/allowed him to play on his bum knee all last year before letting him fully heal.

[Gthoma2a]

I think this team isn't comparable to 2009-2010 in several ways, but one of the biggest is pride. They lost some games, but if you were on their court, they were going to die to defend the court. That is a big difference.

[blueduke59]

Seems to me that he (DukeHoopsGuru) is reacting to more than just ONE loss or bad game. This is Miami, piled on top of several other poor performances and underachievements. I love how, after almost EVERY loss or stinker, somebody will crow about it being a "learning experience." Yeah, they're "learning experiences" - that's for sure.

I'm ready to get pummeled for this, but I'll say it anyway: Why do we continue to stick to a defensive scheme where we continually get abused? At this point, isn't this a coaching issue? Our players, physically, are what they are. No, we are not necessarily "alarmingly unathletic". However, in many cases, we ARE relatively (relative to our opponents) unathletic as a team. That's just the facts, folks.

^THIS.......to a point

This team certainly has issues but if anyone can make them better it's Coach K. I'm convinced that as the year goes on the frosh will improve (Rivers is really starting to come on). I do hope the defensive scheme will adjust to the player's abilities though.

[jkidd31]

Pardon me for asking but why are you giving up on this team? IIRC the 2010 lost to Maryland in February AFTER they lost to G-Town. This is February & I'd rather lose in February than in March. This team just needs someone to step-up & say "I got it". I watched the last few minutes of the 2001 game against Maryland where we were down 57 seconds left & the Maryland fans started their "overrated" chant. J-Will & Nate ended up tying the game & sending it into OT. When OT started I heard J Will say "this is ours". We need that leader to step-up. We know it's not going to be Miles, I worry about it coming from a freshman, so it has got to be either Seth or Dre.
For me personally I won't give up on my boys until we don't have a game left to play althought I will admit if things don't go well tomorrow....

The Maryland game was at Maryland and Grievous Vasquez was playing his last home game. And the game was close.

The 2001 team also had a guy named Battier who was a pretty good leader.

I think if we are looking for "the guy" on this team, it's Rivers. His shot selection is sometimes scary, but the kid doesn't quit. That said, I think there was comment made somewhere what this team really is lacking is a 6'6" - 6'8" guy who can D up on a variety of players. A Lance Thomas, Nate, Tony Lang type.

[lotusland]

You also could apply Dickens. And it is his birthday, I understand.

Not to put too fine a point on it :)

[gep]

Everyone now talks about "no leader on the floor or locker room"....forget this. We have the greatest Koach in the history of sport and if he says the staff he has assembled around him is the greatest in the game, trust him; they should be the leaders.

As an outsider that is able to get to Durham only a couple of times each year, I do not understand the "Capel to the middle of the bench" move but I do appreicate this more than the "Capel speaking through Wojo to tell Koach K this" move since it appears early in the year his in-game dialogue was limited.


I think I remember somewhere recently in a Coach K interview... he was asked about the "leader" of this team. Coach K's response was "me".

I also wondered a bit about Coach Capel sitting in the middle of the bench. I don't think I've ever seen anything like it. I wonder if it's having the effect that Coach K wanted?


I think the players want to play hard, so I think there may be something else damping their energy. If the coaches have tried everything they can think of with the players, it may be time to look at changes in the how/what the coaching staff is doing. I've wondered since the very beginning what the impact of bringing a new-old coach back into the fold would be...who knows perhaps the kinks haven't been worked out yet with reintroduction of a senior coach to the team...and then letting him control part of the bench...

I wonder... maybe what Coach K did in the first half of the Maryland semi-final FF game in 2001 when they were down 22 (or there-abouts). He told the players to "forget" setting up plays... just go out and "play". Maybe this is what this team needs during parts of games?

[ricks68]

Nobody wins them all.

None of you, as fans, are entitled to anything.

Cheer on the team. Rejoice with them when they win. Mourn with them, briefly, when they lose, and then get behind them again. Quit nitpicking about heart, and leadership, and (God forbid) character flaws in these fine, hard-working young men who are trying their best.

Whatever happens, happens. If we beat UNC at Chapel Hill tomorrow, I will be ecstatic. The neighbors will hear me rejoicing. If we lose, I'll be unhappy; but I won't criticize the players. And I'll root for them and support them just as much when they take the court again. Even if they lose every game for the remainder of the season.


Finally, please remember that basketball is a game.

Maybe the mods should close this thread---------------or, at least, retitle it "Taken From Inside Carolina". I never, in all my many, many years in this board (somewhere around 15, give or take) have I ever heard such negative criticism directed towards our players.:mad:

Please give these kids a break. These are OUR players, remember?

ricks

[lilblue]

I think this team isn't comparable to 2009-2010 in several ways, but one of the biggest is pride. They lost some games, but if you were on their court, they were going to die to defend the court. That is a big difference.

I believe that people are forgetting what really happened in our two conferences at home... One we were beaten on a last minute three and a three by Florida St and we missed 6 free throws that would have won the Miami game but prior to that we fought back from a 16 point deficit to be in the game. Correct me if I'm wrong here but did last years team get smoked by Arizona in the tourney by that same margin... Did anyone question their heart or desire to win? Damn people get a little perspective. We've lost 4 games so far this year, fighting back from a 16 point deficit shows me that this team has heart, they could've just rolled over and taken the beating after the miserable start but they didn't!

[DukeHoopsGuru]

All I can say is if you are betting man taking UNC and the points would be the play right now. I think Duke will come out and play well early on, but UNC -6 is stealing at this moment in time. I think you can see that K thought they'd be playing better by now as well. You can just see it. This is one of his toughest coaching jobs to date. He's got a bunch of pieces, old and young, but they can't put it together.

[Des Esseintes]

All I can say is if you are betting man taking UNC and the points would be the play right now. I think Duke will come out and play well early on, but UNC -6 is stealing at this moment in time. I think you can see that K thought they'd be playing better by now as well. You can just see it. This is one of his toughest coaching jobs to date. He's got a bunch of pieces, old and young, but they can't put it together.

When you have a minute, I might beg a little investment advice from you.