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lilblue
01-28-2012, 06:12 PM
Fair weather Duke fans, you should be ashamed of yourselves! I don't post frequently on these or other boards but I am an avid Duke basketball fan and I have to say I am not as disappointed in this team as I am in our fan base! What a group of spoiled fans! Here and elsewhere i read comments about how people have lost interest in this team, how this team is the worst Duke team weve had, how this team doesnt have heart, how this team is this and that!!!! Its disgraceful! For god sake this is a team that is growing, that is part of the fun of watching Duke basketball, watching the kids grow and come together as a cohesive team and how the coaching staff can meld them into a great team! Is this the best defensive team we've had? No it isn't, but we are half way through the season and have only lost what 3 games?!?! Do we have a JJ, Kyle or Jason Williams to turn to in crunch time? No, not as of yet but we do have players that have that potential, will they realize the potential? I don't know but hell I am going to be with this team win or lose just as I have been with each and every Duke team that came before; be it the 91, 95, 99, 01, et all! Am i saying this team doesn't need to improve to advance deep into March, No, no I'm not... This team has a lot to improve upon, but I believe it is possible, who truly believed or thought that the 2010 team would win the Championship? Keep the faith, Go Duke!!!!

doctorhook
01-28-2012, 06:25 PM
I understand where you are coming from and you are right that many fans cross the line in their criticisms. However, to quote Coach K after today's win, " We did enough to win, and it makes me sick to say that. That's not who I am, that's not who this program is. We don't just do enough to win. We play really good basketball. "

moonpie23
01-28-2012, 06:36 PM
perhaps i resemble that remark...

i DON'T expect to see jason williams, boozer, deng, or jj on the floor.......but what i DO expect to see is TOTAL DUKE HEART!!!!!


let me ask you this....and y'all can HAMMER me for asking.......but...


when's the last time you saw one of this team slap the floor?

Acymetric
01-28-2012, 06:50 PM
I am tiring a little of the players waving their arms to get the crowd going constantly (feels like multiple times each game). Make the big plays and the cheers will come.

OldPhiKap
01-28-2012, 06:56 PM
when's the last time you saw one of this team slap the floor?

Good question.

SupaDave
01-28-2012, 07:00 PM
when's the last time you saw one of this team slap the floor?

LMAO! This is too easy. They don't have TIME to do all of that! LOL! Ritualistic displays of aggression mean nothing if your ankles are getting broken - or you're still getting around the screen.

DukeHoopsGuru
01-28-2012, 07:09 PM
Every..................every message board has the soapbox "holier than though" posters who come out of the ground every once in a while. You gotta love em'. Being a fan doesn't mean you have to be blindly loyal. Any somewhat knowledgeable basketball fan can see that this Duke team has developed some very troublesome flaws the past few months. That doesn't make you spoiled. That doesn't make you fair-weathered. It actually makes you a reasonable person. We're all fans. And as fans we have the right to point out actual and legitimate flaws. Forgive me................I guess I'm just spoiled.

PallasAthena
01-28-2012, 07:13 PM
I am tiring a little of the players waving their arms to get the crowd going constantly (feels like multiple times each game). Make the big plays and the cheers will come.

You are correct! Shouldn't the bench be focused on the game, not on the crowd? Makes me mad. I'll scream and yell (and even stand up!!) if I see the play and the heart in the team on the floor.

SupaDave
01-28-2012, 07:17 PM
I am tiring a little of the players waving their arms to get the crowd going constantly (feels like multiple times each game). Make the big plays and the cheers will come.

Gotta disagree with this. I can recall in a past not too long ago when the Crazies were considered a 6th man on the court.

Would anyone like cheese with their whine?

Ima Facultiwyfe
01-28-2012, 07:20 PM
I've been in Cameron every game this year (and for probably 99% of them for the last 35). What I'm seeing from the Crazies is NOT what you are hearing. They're yelling every chance they get. The upper level is even standing and cheering more than I have ever seen. The Crazies are not as inventive as they have been historically, but that's because, for what ever reason deemed by the powers that be, they aren't given the freedom to be. But, they ARE involved and are improving weekly. Trust me, there are kids down there working their buns off and going home exhausted and dehydrated trying to keep things electric. What isn't improving is the team's execution. But they are good guys who are trying, too, and still the ones we'd rather have than any others. So maybe you'd better temper your criticisms a tad. While you're at it, for that matter, ask yourself what contribution YOU made today to help in the cause.

In addition, could it be that Coach K is the one who may be spoiled?

I question whether any of you posting in this thread have actually been in Cameron this year or whether you are just believing what you read in the papers. Instead why don't you come join us. Show us how it's done.

Love, Ima

Kedsy
01-28-2012, 07:25 PM
Being a fan doesn't mean you have to be blindly loyal. Any somewhat knowledgeable basketball fan can see that this Duke team has developed some very troublesome flaws the past few months. That doesn't make you spoiled. That doesn't make you fair-weathered. It actually makes you a reasonable person. We're all fans. And as fans we have the right to point out actual and legitimate flaws. Forgive me................I guess I'm just spoiled.

I don't know. On the one hand, of course it's legit and reasonable to discuss strengths and weaknesses of the team, to identify flaws and talk about ways they can be fixed. I don't think that's what LilBlue is railing against. I think he (or she) is talking about the posters who disparage our players, posters who say this team has no chance, posters who talk about losing interest because the team isn't good enough. In short, posters who make destructive criticism, rather than constructive. Assuming that's what he (or she) meant, then I agree. People who act that way seem angry and entitled, neither reasonable nor true fans.

SupaDave
01-28-2012, 07:29 PM
I definitely believe that things should be more constructive. But right now, the team seems closer to getting it. In fact, I think they've only just begun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6PLRDHI04k&feature=uploademail

1 24 90
01-28-2012, 07:29 PM
I've been in Cameron every game this year (and for probably 99% of them for the last 35). What I'm seeing from the Crazies is NOT what you are hearing. They're yelling every chance they get. The upper level is even standing and cheering more than I have ever seen. The Crazies are not as inventive as they have been historically, but that's because, for what ever reason deemed by the powers that be, they aren't given the freedom to be. But, they ARE involved and are improving weekly. Trust me, there are kids down there working their buns off and going home exhausted and dehydrated trying to keep things electric. What isn't improving is the team's execution. But they are good guys who are trying, too, and still the ones we'd rather have than any others. So maybe you'd better temper your criticisms a tad. While you're at it, for that matter, ask yourself what contribution YOU made today to help in the cause.

In addition, could it be that Coach K is the one who may be spoiled?

I question whether any of you posting in this thread have actually been in Cameron this year or whether you are just believing what you read in the papers. Instead why don't you come join us. Show us how it's done.

Love, Ima

I would love, love to come join you. Do you know where I can get face value (non general admission) tickets instead of paying a 500% markup on stubhub, etc.?

lilblue
01-28-2012, 07:31 PM
I don't know. On the one hand, of course it's legit and reasonable to discuss strengths and weaknesses of the team, to identify flaws and talk about ways they can be fixed. I don't think that's what LilBlue is railing against. I think he (or she) is talking about the posters who disparage our players, posters who say this team has no chance, posters who talk about losing interest because the team isn't good enough. In short, posters who make destructive criticism, rather than constructive. Assuming that's what he (or she) meant, then I agree. People who act that way seem angry and entitled, neither reasonable nor true fans.

This is exactly what I am saying, thank you Kedsy!

91_92_01_10_15
01-28-2012, 07:33 PM
when's the last time you saw one of this team slap the floor?

Tyler did it in the FSU game.

Duvall
01-28-2012, 07:38 PM
Tyler did it in the FSU game.

Yeah, I thought I remembered that. Didn't help.

ncexnyc
01-28-2012, 07:41 PM
I don't know. On the one hand, of course it's legit and reasonable to discuss strengths and weaknesses of the team, to identify flaws and talk about ways they can be fixed. I don't think that's what LilBlue is railing against. I think he (or she) is talking about the posters who disparage our players, posters who say this team has no chance, posters who talk about losing interest because the team isn't good enough. In short, posters who make destructive criticism, rather than constructive. Assuming that's what he (or she) meant, then I agree. People who act that way seem angry and entitled, neither reasonable nor true fans.

The word entitled has been thrown around the past week. Exactly what is an entitled fan?

Bob Green
01-28-2012, 07:56 PM
Exactly what is an entitled fan?

A fan who believes Duke should always win and be a Top 5 team because We are Duke or some such nonsense. A fan who has either forgotten or never knew the hardship associated with being a Duke fan in the early 70s after Vic Bubas retired. I never take a win for granted because 1974 is ingrained in my mind. Before the "Gone in 54 seconds" miracle at Maryland there was the "8 points in 17 seconds" disaster at Carolina.

Chris Randolph
01-28-2012, 08:02 PM
Every..................every message board has the soapbox "holier than though" posters who come out of the ground every once in a while. You gotta love em'. Being a fan doesn't mean you have to be blindly loyal. Any somewhat knowledgeable basketball fan can see that this Duke team has developed some very troublesome flaws the past few months. That doesn't make you spoiled. That doesn't make you fair-weathered. It actually makes you a reasonable person. We're all fans. And as fans we have the right to point out actual and legitimate flaws. Forgive me................I guess I'm just spoiled.

+1

Aside from blasting individuals, I think it is fair game to state your opinion on how the team is playing. Or predict how they will do down the road. Or debate X's and O's.

Devilsfan
01-28-2012, 08:24 PM
I really think that we all love Duke and Duke Basketball. If wanting us to have K's killer instincts and competitiveness for 40 minutes and expressing our displeasure at the fact that we are totally inconsistent then you're right to insinuate we're elitists. Our guards and wings can't stay in front of their men for 40 minutes. We lost leaders from last year and no one has come in or developed enough to provide the much needed leadership, IMO.

MaxAMillion
01-28-2012, 08:25 PM
Coach K said in his press conference after the game that he was not happy. He said he considered it a loss. It was not the way to play Duke basketball. I think posters have every right to be unhappy along with Coach K. Sorry you have a problem with it.

Devilsfan
01-28-2012, 08:30 PM
This is not yet a K team. If you merely look at their record you would think it was but we don't close people out. We don't finish at the rim. We let the other teams guards and wings beat us off the dribble. Thank goodness we have the talent to win most games as long as our opponent isn't too athletic in he front court like Temple for instance.

lilblue
01-28-2012, 08:31 PM
Every..................every message board has the soapbox "holier than though" posters who come out of the ground every once in a while. You gotta love em'. Being a fan doesn't mean you have to be blindly loyal. Any somewhat knowledgeable basketball fan can see that this Duke team has developed some very troublesome flaws the past few months. That doesn't make you spoiled. That doesn't make you fair-weathered. It actually makes you a reasonable person. We're all fans. And as fans we have the right to point out actual and legitimate flaws. Forgive me................I guess I'm just spoiled.

You clearly didn't read my entire post before you got your feelings hurt, read it again and maybe you'll have a greater understanding of what I said!

Devilsfan
01-28-2012, 08:47 PM
This thread is "spoiled rotten" Duke fans. Maybe it's not the "fans" that have been pampered and spoiled rotten.

Ima Facultiwyfe
01-28-2012, 09:19 PM
This thread is "spoiled rotten" Duke fans. Maybe it's not the "fans" that have been pampered and spoiled rotten.

Just maybe you're absolutely right.
Love, Ima

nobodybutDUKE
01-28-2012, 09:23 PM
Unfortunately, realism is often targeted as being negative. The truth is the truth. Duke fans on this board
are just truely passionate about their team. It can come across as negative or spoiled or whatever, but we
love our team. We are just plain passionate. We care and win or lose we will be there!

Verga3
01-28-2012, 09:48 PM
I saw the St. John's game. It was very apparent to me that we were not at DUKE full throttle. I understand if Coach K has some frustration with his team. During the game, I thought of Nolan and the inspiration he infused. We don't have anyone yet that can inspire (slap the floor) and lead this team. Ryan seems to be the guy to me, since we haven't figured out a guard. If the right leadership dynamic doesn't evolve, we will not go as far as we can in the NCAA's. Let me be clear that Coach K knows his team better than anyone and will pull the most out of it that is possible. Stay tuned.

davekay1971
01-28-2012, 10:32 PM
+1

Aside from blasting individuals, I think it is fair game to state your opinion on how the team is playing. Or predict how they will do down the road. Or debate X's and O's.

I see the plus 1 thing a lot when I venture over to IC. I didn't realize it had found it's way to DBR. Alas.

I agree with every word of your post but would suggest that there is a large difference between predicting how they will do down the road (which is actually a completely pointless exercise, at best), and emphatically declaring that the team is destined for a 3rd place ACC finish and an early NCAAT exit.

cspan37421
01-28-2012, 10:49 PM
We are accustomed to seeing a solid defensive team out of Duke- I think some here have said, top 25 year in and year out throughout the modern K era (Dawkins et al). If that's true, there has been a huge dropoff this year defensively with our #84 kenpom defensive rating going into today. Now, our offense is really good, but there's that saying, offense is volatile, like the stock market, but defense finds its level like water. Thus, a cold shooting night can do you in, but if you have solid defense, you should be in any game, regardless of your offense. Thus far, we don't seem to have that. Sure call us spoiled if you like, but Coach K has expectations and apparently his aren't being met. That we are used to Coach K putting very good to excellent defensive teams out there does not make us spoiled. We are noticing the drop off and are concerned (as is he). Maybe the defensive talent isn't there ... but maybe it's more than that.

It has been interesting to see K's reaction to all this. Sometimes I wonder if he feels this team's psyche is somewhat fragile ... even after giving up 50 second half points to FSU, he defended the team afterwards to the media, said it was a great game, etc. But during the game he was really getting into them. He's done that a few times before, too. Same thing happened. But this time, after the game, he expressed his disappointment. It's all very strange and curious.

Greg_Newton
01-28-2012, 11:20 PM
I guess we take after our coach then. :p

Seriously, K was madder than any of us today:


http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?&db_oem_id=4200&id=840977&ATCLID=205370024&ATCLPID=&DB_MENU_ID=&SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200

lilblue
01-28-2012, 11:25 PM
I stick to my original post that some Duke fans are spoiled and expect that every time the Blue Devils step on the floor that they're going to blow the competition out of the water. This is setting yourself up for disappointment and just plain delusional. I agree with most that defense on this team is indeed suspect to say the least but to totally blow this team off because it doesn't fit your preconceived notion of what a Duke team should be is just nuts IMO. If you're a fan you are there with the team through thick and thin, regardless of a games/seasons outcome. I'm not saying that people shouldn't be able to express their frustrations with a team or player but to down right write this Duke team off is a bit premature. We aren't even half way into the ACC schedule and now according to some this team has little chance of accomplishing anything. I believe that K may pull a few old trick out of his sleeve, maybe pulling all the fancy stuff from the locker room and such as he has in the past, but he has always had a way to get the best out of his teams.

Kedsy
01-28-2012, 11:37 PM
I guess we take after our coach then. :p

Seriously, K was madder than any of us today:


http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?&db_oem_id=4200&id=840977&ATCLID=205370024&ATCLPID=&DB_MENU_ID=&SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200

Or he said what he said as a motivational ploy, to shock the team into reaching their potential.

Even if that's not the case, there's a big difference between being unhappy with our defensive effort in the 2nd half today and saying some of the things people have been saying today on this board.

It drives me crazy when someone says something like "this team is surely gone in the first round" and then follows it up by saying they are merely "stating the truth." That sort of thing isn't the "truth," it's an opinion or prediction with nothing to back it up. It's destructive and I can't see any redeeming value to such comments.

loldevilz
01-28-2012, 11:42 PM
I see the plus 1 thing a lot when I venture over to IC. I didn't realize it had found it's way to DBR. Alas.

I agree with every word of your post but would suggest that there is a large difference between predicting how they will do down the road (which is actually a completely pointless exercise, at best), and emphatically declaring that the team is destined for a 3rd place ACC finish and an early NCAAT exit.

I would like to point out that Dick Vitale himself said that he could see Duke losing in the first round because we don't have a good perimeter defense and we have difficulty stopping quick guards. If Dick Vitale (ie Mr. Positive Energy) thinks we have those problems I don't see anything wrong with making those assertions on this board.

Kedsy
01-28-2012, 11:45 PM
I would like to point out that Dick Vitale himself said that he could see Duke losing in the first round because we don't have a good perimeter defense and we have difficulty stopping quick guards. If Dick Vitale (ie Mr. Positive Energy) thinks we have those problems I don't see anything wrong with making those assertions on this board.

What Vitale said is we could lose in the first round or we could go to the Final Four, depending on our draw. Big difference between that and saying we definitely won't make it past the first weekend, like a couple posters said today.

Greg_Newton
01-28-2012, 11:47 PM
Or he said what he said as a motivational ploy, to shock the team into reaching their potential.

Even if that's not the case, there's a big difference between being unhappy with our defensive effort in the 2nd half today and saying some of the things people have been saying today on this board.

It drives me crazy when someone says something like "this team is surely gone in the first round" and then follows it up by saying they are merely "stating the truth." That sort of thing isn't the "truth," it's an opinion or prediction with nothing to back it up. It's destructive and I can't see any redeeming value to such comments.

Well, I don't mean to speak for everybody. I think there's a lot of blanket generalizations being made by both "sides" here; Poster A makes an excessive chicken little comment, Poster B calls out all negative posters in response, Poster C gets defensive because he/she has criticized certain aspects of the team in the past, etc.

I think it's hard to watch that PC and call it a motivational ploy, though. That was about as visibly angry as I've ever seen K.

lilblue
01-28-2012, 11:57 PM
I would like to point out that Dick Vitale himself said that he could see Duke losing in the first round because we don't have a good perimeter defense and we have difficulty stopping quick guards. If Dick Vitale (ie Mr. Positive Energy) thinks we have those problems I don't see anything wrong with making those assertions on this board.

I'm sorry but Dickie V is a horrible announcer/ commentator and relies heavily on the same ol' shtick that he's used for the past 20+ years. He is also an extreme bandwagoner who is all about who's hot now. Anything he says I always take with a grain of salt. Could we get eliminated in the first round of the tournament? Sure we could if we do not improve on defense, but it is more likely that we get better on D and make it passed the first round. Remember the "alarmingly unathletic" team of 2010? Nobody including Dickie V had us winning it all but we did, against conventional wisdom!

Kedsy
01-29-2012, 12:35 AM
I think it's hard to watch that PC and call it a motivational ploy, though. That was about as visibly angry as I've ever seen K.

I watched it, and I think it's exactly what it was. Have you ever seen K call out the team like that to the press? The players will be shocked and ashamed, and if they have the type of personalities that are motivated by such things, they'll work that much harder. I don't think K ever says anything by accident or because of emotion or even just to answer a question. Everything he says has a purpose.

Greg_Newton
01-29-2012, 12:42 AM
I watched it, and I think it's exactly what it was. Have you ever seen K call out the team like that to the press? The players will be shocked and ashamed, and if they have the type of personalities that are motivated by such things, they'll work that much harder. I don't think K ever says anything by accident or because of emotion or even just to answer a question. Everything he says has a purpose.

I'm sure it was no accident, but I also don't think he was faking any of the emotion or that he didn't mean what he said. Which was the purpose of bringing it up in the first place.

Kedsy
01-29-2012, 12:46 AM
I'm sure it was no accident, but I also don't think he was faking any of the emotion or that he didn't mean what he said. Which was the purpose of bringing it up in the first place.

Well, OK. I don't think he was faking the emotion or being deceptive either. But he could have vented his anger privately, and he chose to do it publicly. If you don't think he said those things by accident, I don't see how it can be anything other than a motivational ploy.


.

Bob Green
01-29-2012, 12:52 AM
I'm sorry but Dickie V is a horrible announcer/ commentator and relies heavily on the same ol' shtick that he's used for the past 20+ years.

Bravo! Post of the Day. Dick Vitale equals immediate use of the Mute Button. He is a blowhard...nothing more, nothing less.

sporthenry
01-29-2012, 02:34 AM
A fan who believes Duke should always win and be a Top 5 team because We are Duke or some such nonsense. A fan who has either forgotten or never knew the hardship associated with being a Duke fan in the early 70s after Vic Bubas retired. I never take a win for granted because 1974 is ingrained in my mind. Before the "Gone in 54 seconds" miracle at Maryland there was the "8 points in 17 seconds" disaster at Carolina.

The problem you get into with this is further alienating some of the fan base. I don't think it is very fair to criticize a fan b/c they weren't alive for the 1970's team. I think we all appreciate all the Iron's who supported this program through the thick and thin but getting into a pissing contest and pulling out the 70's card or the "I've always been here" does nobody good.

Yes, perhaps we are spoiled, but the problem why many Duke fans are upset or a bit disinterested is b/c we aren't playing Duke basketball. As K pointed out with his criticism of today's game. Even when Duke struggled more mightily with the Paulus and McRoberts team or whatever team you want to bring up, we played hard on defense. We didn't turn the ball over on with such recklessness on offense. This team beats themselves which I can't remember a Duke team ever doing. So yes, I don't remember or know the bad times, but I fail to realize where that justifies me accepting mediocrity (which I think is where K is coming from).

And while 2010 has shown I love to watch the teams grow, this team is frustrating b/c they take two steps forward and two steps back at the same time. And similarly, it is also a college basketball problem with players like KI or Rivers who leave after a year and you never really get to know them. I think we will all be at the same place come March, but I'd like to see this team just have the light go on. If we lose to a hot team, so be it, but if we lose while turning the ball over 15 times and allowing the other team open layups, it will probably be one of the hardest losses to take.

Devilsfan
01-29-2012, 06:38 AM
Maybe Coach K can zero in on our chemistry problem that has the players lapsing on D and not playing consistently at the Duke (highest) level for 40 minutes.

Reilly
01-29-2012, 07:37 AM
W.. I don't see how it can be anything other than a motivational ploy.
.

I believe K spoke the truth as he sees it (and as many have seen it): this team is primarily offensive-oriented and doesn't want it or get after it defensively consistently enough. That's not a recipe for greatness, in K's eyes. K spoke the truth as he sees it. I wouldn't call such an assessment from K "only" a motivational ploy. It's his honest assessment; stating it publicly may indeed motivate (let's hope!) but I don't believe that's *why* he stated it. He stated it because it's the truth as he sees it.

OldPhiKap
01-29-2012, 07:48 AM
I believe K spoke the truth as he sees it (and as many have seen it): this team is primarily offensive-oriented and doesn't want it or get after it defensively consistently enough. That's not a recipe for greatness, in K's eyes. K spoke the truth as he sees it. I wouldn't call such an assessment from K "only" a motivational ploy. It's his honest assessment; stating it publicly may indeed motivate (let's hope!) but I don't believe that's *why* he stated it. He stated it because it's the truth as he sees it.

In the DBP interviews, both Mason and Andre talked about the need to focus on defense (and the lack thereof in the second half) as well.

Even a casual observer over the K period would note that defense is the hallmark and foundation of his philosophy. And there's no getting around the fact that we have some obvious lapses in execution on the defensive end that need to be addressed before March.

It is silly for anyone to write this team off. But it is equally improper to just argue that everything is as it should be. All teams run at a different pace, and this team will need to kick it up a few notches before we get to elimination play.

uh_no
01-29-2012, 08:48 AM
I believe K spoke the truth as he sees it (and as many have seen it): this team is primarily offensive-oriented and doesn't want it or get after it defensively consistently enough. That's not a recipe for greatness, in K's eyes. K spoke the truth as he sees it. I wouldn't call such an assessment from K "only" a motivational ploy. It's his honest assessment; stating it publicly may indeed motivate (let's hope!) but I don't believe that's *why* he stated it. He stated it because it's the truth as he sees it.

I think this is spot on. He's never going to lie to the press or his team or the fans. I have no doubt that he chooses his words carefully and further chooses what he's even going to say in such a way that he can send a message to his team, his fans, other teams, whomever. In my opinion, he said what he did to express his feelings about his team and to motivate them. He's been with these guys since last summer, and many of them for several years. He knows which buttons to push, and I would guess that "airing things to the media" is very very deep in his playbook.

If someone thinks this Isn't a technique for motivating the team, I encourage you to read one of K's books or just listen to him speak. Every word he speaks has a goal of extracting the performance he expects out of the people he's talking to.

cspan37421
01-29-2012, 09:25 AM
I stick to my original post that some Duke fans are spoiled and expect that every time the Blue Devils step on the floor that they're going to blow the competition out of the water. This is setting yourself up for disappointment and just plain delusional. I agree with most that defense on this team is indeed suspect to say the least but to totally blow this team off because it doesn't fit your preconceived notion of what a Duke team should be is just nuts IMO. If you're a fan you are there with the team through thick and thin, regardless of a games/seasons outcome. I'm not saying that people shouldn't be able to express their frustrations with a team or player but to down right write this Duke team off is a bit premature. We aren't even half way into the ACC schedule and now according to some this team has little chance of accomplishing anything. I believe that K may pull a few old trick out of his sleeve, maybe pulling all the fancy stuff from the locker room and such as he has in the past, but he has always had a way to get the best out of his teams.

You seem to be very angry with some caricature of Duke fans - and you seem a bit abusive in your language toward them, calling them delusional and nuts. I would suggest taking a step back and recognize the difference between serious concern for the team and utter dismissal of it. We all hope the defense gets better, but we're over halfway through the season and there's not much evidence of that happening - and significant evidence of regression. Same for communication on the floor, emergence of clear leadership, etc. To suggest we're going nowhere is almost always predicated (even if tacitly so) on seeing more of the same. No one is saying there's zero chance things will get better. But those odds look increasingly long with every 43-50 pt half we give up. At the very least, I think you should give some slack to posters here whose expressed concerns aren't any more critical than Coach K's. And recognize that expressing concern does not equate to writing the team off. We are cautiously optimistic.

Lord Ash
01-29-2012, 09:35 AM
Anyone think there is a connection between the apparently poor fan performance at Cameron and the teams performance? Not speaking so much of the teams performance in results (3 losses at this point in the season is pretty damn good, especially considering our schedule) but more in terms of apparent "heart?"

Duvall
01-29-2012, 09:58 AM
Anyone think there is a connection between the apparently poor fan performance at Cameron and the teams performance? Not speaking so much of the teams performance in results (3 losses at this point in the season is pretty damn good, especially considering our schedule) but more in terms of apparent "heart?"

I seriously doubt that.

DukeDevilDeb
01-29-2012, 10:18 AM
Something has puzzled me over the last several years, and hopefully someone can answer it..

Why is it that the crowd--and especially the Crazies section (but this includes those of us upstairs as well)--gets so much more excited and yells louder for the Crazy Towel Guy than it EVER does for the team?

I sit in my seat and shake my head every game when the Crazy Towel Guy cheer starts... it gets louder and louder, people upstairs start to stand up and cheer, and when the dude whips his towel around, the place goes crazy.

For what?

If we spent half that energy on cheering for the team, Cameron could be rocking.

I do agree with the poster who said that if the players made great plays, the crowd would respond, and I fully believe that's true. But they need us most when that's not happening.

As a sociologist, I'm always looking for factors which explain human behavior. for a long time, I've seen the team and the crowd interacting. The team did well; the crowd responded; the team did better. That "interaction effect" just isn't there now, and I don't pretend to know why.

But the next time people start calling for the Crazy Towel Guy, step outside yourself and watch. If you are expending more energy at that time than you did at any other part of the game, something is really wrong.

Go Devils!

PS: I don't mean this as a put down for the Crazy Towel Guy. Talk about a fan! But I would much rather we yelled and cheered with him than for him.

DukeWarhead
01-29-2012, 10:26 AM
'Nothing wrong with watching a game and agreeing with the coach that the team did not play very well and has some significant issues to work on.
For those that want to Rah Rah Sis Boom Bah no matter what, good for you, and it's good there are fans like you. For those that want to offer critiques about the way the team has played at times, to include voicing some skepticism, good for you too, you are needed as well.
True, those that expect a 30 point win everytime out are delusional - but I don't think many of those exist on this board. I think most have a good idea about this team's potential and whether or not recent play seems to be living up to that potential.
In the end, I think many of us on here just hope that Duke teams play to their potential and give 100%. When they don't seem to, you see the critiques come out.

MulletMan
01-29-2012, 10:39 AM
I do agree with the poster who said that if the players made great plays, the crowd would respond, and I fully believe that's true. But they need us most when that's not happening.

BINGO!

There is no question that this is the key to supporting the team. Where do these voices come from? I thought Native did a pretty good job on Saturday... Who is going to work with him?

SupaDave
01-29-2012, 10:42 AM
Bravo! Post of the Day. Dick Vitale equals immediate use of the Mute Button. He is a blowhard...nothing more, nothing less.

Dickie V is not still around b/c he's a great announcer, he's still around b/c he's the biggest college basketball fan in America. College bball will surely miss Dickie V.

He's a personality. It's what ESPN expects of pretty much all of it's announcers - especially nowadays.

See if you can recognize the ESPN "schtick"....

"He - could - go - all - the way..."

"Boo-ya!!"

And it's usually accompanied with a "straight" guy.

I'm not gonna lie - there's nothing I love to hear more when a team gets on a run, with the crowd into it, and some young frosh/soph is going nuts than "the diaper dandies have the crowd going wild. Call a T.O. baby!!!" Of course, hopefully it's not my team on the opposite end of that run...

cbnaylor
01-29-2012, 10:53 AM
After reading through the post, I would say that most of us are not spoiled rotten but we do have expectations. Maybe are expectations are coming across as being spoiled rotten but it's for a good cause. We want whats best for this team and it hurts to see this team not playing Duke basketball. Defense is Duke basketball. You have to have expectations because if you don't, you are selling yourself short.

cspan37421
01-29-2012, 11:01 AM
Getting a bit off topic, but if a moderator can, I figure I can too.

Dick Vitale does meander in his comments a lot, but he passionately loves college basketball. Moreover, he does his homework (maybe not as much as Jay Bilas, but he does study up a good bit on a matchup). I certainly understand how his delivery rubs some people the wrong way ... esp. when you discover that the passion he brings in calling Duke games is nothing special - he does it for a lot of teams - he just seems like he's Dukie V because we're on TV a lot and he likes to get that assignment when possible. But doesn't he at least get our players' names right? More than I can say for some other announcers of late. So yeah, he needs the "straight man" to rein in his tendency to go way off on tangents, but he brings something to the table than many others don't bring - a true enthusiasm and passion for the game. In that sense, I think he's filling a role not unlike what Al McGuire did in his broadcasting career. Variety is the spice of life and it would be dull indeed to only have dry, clinical breakdowns of every play. I'm glad he's part of the landscape of college basketball. He just needs to be managed a bit, so he doesn't block the view of the entire landscape.

lilblue
01-29-2012, 11:05 AM
You seem to be very angry with some caricature of Duke fans - and you seem a bit abusive in your language toward them, calling them delusional and nuts. I would suggest taking a step back and recognize the difference between serious concern for the team and utter dismissal of it. We all hope the defense gets better, but we're over halfway through the season and there's not much evidence of that happening - and significant evidence of regression. Same for communication on the floor, emergence of clear leadership, etc. To suggest we're going nowhere is almost always predicated (even if tacitly so) on seeing more of the same. No one is saying there's zero chance things will get better. But those odds look increasingly long with every 43-50 pt half we give up. At the very least, I think you should give some slack to posters here whose expressed concerns aren't any more critical than Coach K's. And recognize that expressing concern does not equate to writing the team off. We are cautiously optimistic.

Is what I am saying incorrect? I didn't make a blanket statement about all Duke fans other than myself, I'm calling out those fair weathered fans that are pessimists where this team can go, that after a bad half of defense such as yesterday's game they completely write the team off. Again I agree with most that the defense is atrocious at times but at another times you can see it clicking. This team isnt as bad as some people are saying, and I dont say that because im wearing some blue shaded glasses, I say that because I have a huge history of teams to sample from... This teams record is not that of a losing team, we've played a hell of a schedule so far and have lost 3 of those. I would say the Sky is far from falling! I'm just stating that people should have a little perspective. This team could go either way, but contrary to some Duke fans, it hasnt reached its limits yet, and that is why Coach was so passionate in the presser last night. He knows how good this is and can be!

SupaDave
01-29-2012, 11:06 AM
Getting a bit off topic, but if a moderator can, I figure I can too.

Dick Vitale does meander in his comments a lot, but he passionately loves college basketball. Moreover, he does his homework (maybe not as much as Jay Bilas, but he does study up a good bit on a matchup). I certainly understand how his delivery rubs some people the wrong way ... esp. when you discover that the passion he brings in calling Duke games is nothing special - he does it for a lot of teams - he just seems like he's Dukie V because we're on TV a lot and he likes to get that assignment when possible. But doesn't he at least get our players' names right? More than I can say for some other announcers of late. So yeah, he needs the "straight man" to rein in his tendency to go way off on tangents, but he brings something to the table than many others don't bring - a true enthusiasm and passion for the game. In that sense, I think he's filling a role not unlike what Al McGuire did in his broadcasting career. Variety is the spice of life and it would be dull indeed to only have dry, clinical breakdowns of every play. I'm glad he's part of the landscape of college basketball. He just needs to be managed a bit, so he doesn't block the view of the entire landscape.

a thread called "spoiled rotten Duke fans" gets a little leeway to go off topic...

Bob Green
01-29-2012, 11:08 AM
Bravo! Post of the Day. Dick Vitale equals immediate use of the Mute Button. He is a blowhard...nothing more, nothing less.


Dickie V is not still around b/c he's a great announcer, he's still around b/c he's the biggest college basketball fan in America. College bball will surely miss Dickie V.

I'm not gonna lie - there's nothing I love to hear more when a team gets on a run, with the crowd into it, and some young frosh/soph is going nuts than "the diaper dandies have the crowd going wild. Call a T.O. baby!!!" Of course, hopefully it's not my team on the opposite end of that run...

I'm happy for you that you love to hear Dickie V, but I don't like to listen to him. I watched the whole game yesterday with the sound turned off. That's just the way it is.

cspan37421
01-29-2012, 11:17 AM
Anyone think there is a connection between the apparently poor fan performance at Cameron and the teams performance? Not speaking so much of the teams performance in results (3 losses at this point in the season is pretty damn good, especially considering our schedule) but more in terms of apparent "heart?"

I think fan performance lags team performance. Kind of "if you build it they will come" sort of thing. While I think fans can really contribute to a winning team atmosphere, a Coach K team playing Duke basketball should not require the 6th Man fans to win - otherwise their road record would be indeed abysmal. I'm sure Coach K wants a team that has the internal fire and drive to succeed regardless of what the fans are doing. Home fans are the icing on the cake, and a team that exemplifies the five components of the fist - communication, trust, collective responsibility, caring and pride - will attract passionate fans.

And this is very important: notice those 5 components don't say anything about raw talent, speed, or winning. You don't necessarily have to have the most talented team, and surely in years past we've had much lesser teams (talent-wise) that have made the Final Four by dedication to those five components (I'm primarily thinking of 2 post-Dawkins, pre-Hurley teams in '88 and '89). And we've had passionate fans packing the place even when there's less on-court success - but those 5 components are evident. I'm not going to claim we don't have those things - that's for Coach K to judge. But I suspect that this team is perceived (by some) as not having those qualities - at least, not a sufficient measure of them, and that perception is affecting fan motivation.

Reilly
01-29-2012, 11:28 AM
... Even a casual observer over the K period would note that defense is the hallmark and foundation of his philosophy. And there's no getting around the fact that we have some obvious lapses in execution on the defensive end that need to be addressed before March. .... this team will need to kick it up a few notches before we get to elimination play.

I agree with all this. Here's what concerns me: earlier in the season, I was talking to a fellow alum/fan about the team's defensive woes, how it just didn't seem to be in these players' DNA. My friend's response: "they're a bunch of prima donna jump shooters." That was said out of frustration, and they're not all jump shooters of course, but it got to some sort of truth it seems, and what worries me was is in the press conference where K seemed to echo that sentiment when he said it was not in these players' "nature" is the word I believe he used, to play Duke type defense.

So, kicking things up a few notches may take more button-pushing from K than usual (with less guarantee of success), and it would help if the crowd kicked it all up a notch, too. I don't see nearly the amount of diving after loose balls, or getting after it on D to an insane level (with concomitant crowd roaring for such efforts) that we've usually seen by this time of year in the past.

DukeWarhead
01-29-2012, 11:31 AM
Is what I am saying incorrect? I didn't make a blanket statement about all Duke fans other than myself, I'm calling out those fair weathered fans that are pessimists where this team can go, that after a bad half of defense such as yesterday's game they completely write the team off. Again I agree with most that the defense is atrocious at times but at another times you can see it clicking. This team isnt as bad as some people are saying, and I dont say that because im wearing some blue shaded glasses, I say that because I have a huge history of teams to sample from... This teams record is not that of a losing team, we've played a hell of a schedule so far and have lost 3 of those. I would say the Sky is far from falling! I'm just stating that people should have a little perspective. This team could go either way, but contrary to some Duke fans, it hasnt reached its limits yet, and that is why Coach was so passionate in the presser last night. He knows how good this is and can be!

Who are you railing against? I just don't see a whole lot of posts that have completely writing the team off or even said is was a "bad" team. (Seriously, show me a post that says this team is a "bad" team.)
Sure, every board will have it's one or two hyperbolic pessimists, so if your original post was for their benefit, OK. But I don't think the vast majority of posts on here have been overly critical of this squad. Instead the bulk of comments on here seem to be very much in line with Coach K's comments throughout the year, or the players' themselves in post-game interviews.

I just don't see a whole bunch of "spoiled" fans on here. Just a whole bunch that know what brand of b-ball Coach K expects and they know it when they see it -and when they don't.

You know, it's possible to love your team and admit it's shortcomings at the same time.

PADukeMom
01-29-2012, 12:08 PM
I don't know about any of you but I am just as crazy of a Duke fan as I have been for the has 20 or so years. So far 1 broken remote & a broken cordless phone. My son & I can not watch games together in person in fear of a angering the WEAUFX GODS. A certain Kentucky game did it but we just stay on the phone for 2 hours screaming & yes in my case throwing the phone, remote, cat or whatever is close to me.

Any Crazy who doesn't plan on using his/her seat give me a PM before you sell your beloved ticket to a fan of the opposing team. Oh my you have no clue as to what I would do to score a seat, any seat, for a game in Cameron.

DukeBlueHeart4
01-29-2012, 12:27 PM
I have been called a spoiled rotten Duke fan before- by a Carolina fan immediately after the last time Hasnbrough played in Cameron. But I have also been told "You can't expect a blow out in every game" on more than once occasion. Every time I've been told that I've thought the same thing: I don't mind winning by a slim margin when we show heart and play hard. It's only when we seem to drop out of the game emotionally that it bothers me that it's a close win.

I do not believe that discussing a team with passion, energy, and emotion (as is often done here) is a bad thing. I do, however, think that as fans we tend to be harder on our guys than anyone. My boyfriend one asked me why I watched Duke basketball games when they can make me so angry, even sometimes when they win. The answer is simple: we care. If we didn't care enough to worry/complain/whatever you want to call it then I would be worried. The conversations that occur here are mostly truly thorough discussions of the nuts and bolts of the game. Yes, posters get carried away sometimes. Yes, we can sometimes get angry at our guys. But we never stop caring and we never stop wanting our team to improve and get better.

Kedsy
01-29-2012, 12:48 PM
I think fan performance lags team performance. Kind of "if you build it they will come" sort of thing.

See, this is exactly what I think this thread is talking about. Bob Green talked about the '70s, and I was there in the late 70s and early 80s, and our fans (they weren't called "Crazies" yet) were loud and raucus and amazing, even though the team wasn't a Final Four contender every year (or pretty much any year in Coach K's first few seasons or the 70s, at least up to 1978). I always thought being a Duke fan meant bringing that wild devilish enthusiasm every minute of every game, no matter what the team did. That's what makes us great. Hell, even UNC fans can make a lot of noise when their team is on a roll. We're supposed to be better than that.

Reilly
01-29-2012, 01:45 PM
.... I always thought being a Duke fan meant bringing that wild devilish enthusiasm every minute of every game, no matter what the team did. That's what makes us great. Hell, even UNC fans can make a lot of noise when their team is on a roll. We're supposed to be better than that.

This paragraph should be included in every offer of admission Duke sends out. By not showing up, by not carrying on the tradition, today's students are, literally, changing the very nature of Duke in some way. And not for the better. Cameron is a place where much of Duke collectively comes together -- what'd Tom Wolfe call it, a "colonial animal" where by aggregating we became one, and something better. I remember going to Cameron for the first time -- I didn't know all the chants or cheers, what came next, what have you. You watch and learn, and then you step up and carry it on.

Devil in the Blue Dress
01-29-2012, 01:53 PM
This paragraph should be included in every offer of admission Duke sends out. By not showing up, by not carrying on the tradition, today's students are, literally, changing the very nature of Duke in some way. And not for the better. Cameron is a place where much of Duke collectively comes together -- what'd Tom Wolfe call it, a "colonial animal" where by aggregating we became one, and something better. I remember going to Cameron for the first time -- I didn't know all the chants or cheers, what came next, what have you. You watch and learn, and then you step up and carry it on.
Duke is changing. The passing of time has that effect.

The profile of the typical Duke student has been changing subtly and not so subtly for years.... a factor that's bound to make an impact on what Duke's like as a community and institution.

Finding a sense of community seems to be more and more of a challenge on campus, not unlike out the real world.

Reilly
01-29-2012, 01:59 PM
.... Finding a sense of community seems to be more and more of a challenge on campus ....[/I].

I've wondered if all our technology (texting, emailing, skyping all your friends every minute of every day) has somehow hurt Cameron, or lessened the need to come together. Cameron is where we connected. As a friend said, there was no question back in the day what you were doing ... you were going to the game. Now, maybe folks feel connected enough w/out actually connecting, if that makes sense.

throatybeard
01-29-2012, 02:02 PM
I think as far as the board goes, it used to be that the over-the-top caterwauling was mainly limited to the twelve or twenty-four hours after losses. But now, even close wins precipitate yowling and rending of garments.

cspan37421
01-29-2012, 02:03 PM
See, this is exactly what I think this thread is talking about. Bob Green talked about the '70s, and I was there in the late 70s and early 80s, and our fans (they weren't called "Crazies" yet) were loud and raucus and amazing, even though the team wasn't a Final Four contender every year (or pretty much any year in Coach K's first few seasons or the 70s, at least up to 1978). I always thought being a Duke fan meant bringing that wild devilish enthusiasm every minute of every game, no matter what the team did. That's what makes us great. Hell, even UNC fans can make a lot of noise when their team is on a roll. We're supposed to be better than that.

Yes, but please remember what I said in my second paragraph - winning and final fours are not components of the "fist." My guess - and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - is that if the team in your day wasn't playing with communication, trust, caring, pride, collective responsibility, it would not have been loud and raucous and amazing in Cameron.

As a corollary, I can't imagine Coach K recruiting players whose willingness to give their all depended on fan support.

So yes, while I did say that fan performance follows team performance, I didn't mean team performance as only measured by wins. If that were the only factor, all of us would be celebrating our not fully blowing a big lead at home to the St. John's freshman 5. Instead, we're worried that the fist is not firmly clenched.

Kedsy
01-29-2012, 02:17 PM
My guess - and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - is that if the team in your day wasn't playing with communication, trust, caring, pride, collective responsibility, it would not have been loud and raucous and amazing in Cameron.

Well, I do think you are wrong. My senior year, the team was a disaster in almost every respect, but we loved them and rooted them on and Cameron was as loud and wonderful as ever. I remember my last home game at Cameron, which turned out to be our tenth and final win of the year, by one point in triple overtime against Clemson. Toward the end of the 2nd overtime my 21 year old self turned to a friend, shouted over the din to make myself heard, and said, "I'm getting too old for this. I don't think my heart can take it." Rooting for a ten-win team that had lost 7 home games (including to Davidson and Appalachian State) and at times had looked like you might as well give them a red cape so they could more stylishly play their matador-style defense. But despite all that, every home game was plenty loud and raucous.

My guess is slightly older fans could describe similar experiences (amidst similar disfunctionality) from the Bucky Waters years and the early Bill Foster years.

Devil in the Blue Dress
01-29-2012, 02:24 PM
I've wondered if all our technology (texting, emailing, skyping all your friends every minute of every day) has somehow hurt Cameron, or lessened the need to come together. Cameron is where we connected. As a friend said, there was no question back in the day what you were doing ... you were going to the game. Now, maybe folks feel connected enough w/out actually connecting, if that makes sense.
Technology has created a new type of connection for people, but contributed to a serious disconnect in face to face reality.

When people opt to text or email instead of talk to the person they're with..... I think I remember hearing one of the coaches talk about team members seated at a table for a meal, but texting each other.

I remember hearing Coach K, about the time Mike Dunleavy, Jr. was a frosh, say that how college students think to process information had changed as had their development.... individuals lacking a sense of team, team work. ... lots of one person - one computer types of activity. At that point in time, he said he was having to teach incoming players how to be part of a team. He found that how he delivered information had to be modified because of difference in how the young guys processed it. That sort of comment is what you'd expect from an observant teacher.

If the players have changed over time, surely the rest of the students have, too.

lilblue
01-29-2012, 02:33 PM
Who are you railing against? I just don't see a whole lot of posts that have completely writing the team off or even said is was a "bad" team. (Seriously, show me a post that says this team is a "bad" team.)
Sure, every board will have it's one or two hyperbolic pessimists, so if your original post was for their benefit, OK. But I don't think the vast majority of posts on here have been overly critical of this squad. Instead the bulk of comments on here seem to be very much in line with Coach K's comments throughout the year, or the players' themselves in post-game interviews.

I just don't see a whole bunch of "spoiled" fans on here. Just a whole bunch that know what brand of b-ball Coach K expects and they know it when they see it -and when they don't.

You know, it's possible to love your team and admit it's shortcomings at the same time.

I'm pretty sure I've made it clear who I'm talking about, all you have to do is read my posts on this subject. I'm not calling out any particular person on this board, but here and on other boards where the tone of discussion isn't quite as civil as it is here, to be specific take a read over on the free boards at the Devils Den, but there are definitely some here that could be considered spoiled fans. Again read my posts and Kedsy's as well if you would like clarity.

Greg_Newton
01-29-2012, 02:40 PM
I'm pretty sure I've made it clear who I'm talking about, all you have to do is read my posts on this subject. I'm not calling out any particular person on this board, but here and on other boards where the tone of discussion isn't quite as civil as it is here, to be specific take a read over on the free boards at the Devils Den, but there are definitely some here that could be considered spoiled fans. Again read my posts and Kedsy's as well if you would like clarity.

No offense, but calling out a board in general for specific shortcomings without pointing to any examples or posters in particular is kind of an annoying thing to do... especially when your primary issue seems to be with a different board altogether. It makes everyone who's been critical of aspects of Duke's team defensive - not just the posters you have in mind - and doesn't really accomplish anything.

Zeke
01-29-2012, 02:44 PM
Well, I do think you are wrong. My senior year, the team was a disaster in almost every respect, but we loved them and rooted them on and Cameron was as loud and wonderful as ever. I remember my last home game at Cameron, which turned out to be our tenth and final win of the year, by one point in triple overtime against Clemson. Toward the end of the 2nd overtime my 21 year old self turned to a friend, shouted over the din to make myself heard, and said, "I'm getting too old for this. I don't think my heart can take it." Rooting for a ten-win team that had lost 7 home games (including to Davidson and Appalachian State) and at times had looked like you might as well give them a red cape so they could more stylishly play their matador-style defense. But despite all that, every home game was plenty loud and raucous.

My guess is slightly older fans could describe similar experiences (amidst similar disfunctionality) from the Bucky Waters years and the early Bill Foster years.

Back in the 50's it was wild. First, the undergrads had the WHOLE lower level. The fire marshall hadn't arrived and limited the number of students on that level. Pretty much the whole school arrived. Second, the games were at 7 (or 7:30) - following the freshman team's game, and the teams rarely played on the weekend (as I remember it) and never on Sunday. Third, it was possible to arrive just at game time (or after the game started) and get in with no problems. If your friends or frat brothers had seats, they would just scrunch up more. Fourth, there was no press row and the opposing players were often taking the ball out just in fron of you and exposed to all sorts of verbal and at times physical abuse (hat pins were a staple).Things were at times thrown at opposing players during warmups- they were not harmful things but funny - such as inflated condoms at an NC State player who had recently had a paternity suite filed aganist him. It was usually not possible to hear the Pep Band (all students) if you were on the other end of the Indoor Stadium (not CIS as Eddie Cameron was just the AD then) and during the Carolina game you couldn't hear anything anywhere.
You know we were before the Cameron Crazies but we were much more spontaneous and I believe had more fun. The BB game was a happening and if the team won that was great but we were ther just to have a good time. Nothing was choreographed, nobody painted there faces, no blue wigs, nobody had to wear blue tee shirts (or even chose to). We just had fun. I hope the current kids are having as much fun, but I get the feeling I'm watching a stage production whenever I watch a home game. Maybe I'm too harsh.

lilblue
01-29-2012, 03:00 PM
No offense, but calling out a board in general for specific shortcomings without pointing to any examples or posters in particular is kind of an annoying thing to do... especially when your primary issue seems to be with a different board altogether. It makes everyone who's been critical of aspects of Duke's team defensive - not just the posters you have in mind - and doesn't really accomplish anything.

Whoops, my fault for starting a discussion that many others are willing to have and happen to agree with. If I had the time I would search for specific examples and call people out but I do not have that kind of time or the desire to call anyone out, it isn't as though I'm saying something that is a fabrication or rumor mongering which is frowned upon. I simply made an observation. You are welcome to agree/disagree if you'd like but if you want examples, feel free to look for yourself because they are there for everyone to see. To be honest I brought the conversation here because this is by far a much more friendly environment!

OldPhiKap
01-29-2012, 03:11 PM
Whoops, my fault for starting a discussion that many others are willing to have and happen to agree with. If I had the time I would search for specific examples and call people out but I do not have that kind of time or the desire to call anyone out, it isn't as though I'm saying something that is a fabrication or rumor mongering which is frowned upon. I simply made an observation. You are welcome to agree/disagree if you'd like but if you want examples, feel free to look for yourself because they are there for everyone to see. To be honest I brought the conversation here because this is by far a much more friendly environment!

I think it is fine to bring up the topic. It is a legitimate question.

I guess I would use the word "complacent" instead of spoiled, although maybe we're driving at two different things. The bottom line is that if the students are not using the full allotment of tickets, at a time when we are in the top ten no less, there's an issue to be discussed.

I also agree that there is a difference between constructive critique and pervasive negativism. Although we all draw that line in a different spot I suppose.

In any event, I applaud you for bringing up the subject. Being somewhat controvercial, it was bound to get some strong reactions both ways and I assume that's not a surprise.

-- OPK, FWIW

Greg_Newton
01-29-2012, 03:16 PM
Well, if you don't have the time or desire to respond to specific posts, it's annoying to just scold the entire fan base for saying pretty much anything negative. It's one thing to say that this is "the worst Duke team we've had" (who said that, BTW? I'm guessing nobody), but it's completely different to say, for example, that this team is weak defensively, and you seem to lump these types of comments together in your post:


Fair weather Duke fans, you should be ashamed of yourselves! ...What a group of spoiled fans! Here and elsewhere i read comments about how people have lost interest in this team, how this team is the worst Duke team weve had, how this team doesnt have heart, how this team is this and that!!!! Its disgraceful!

Did you mean comments like these?


It's not in our nature to be good defensively... These kids are more offensive players and they won’t win big unless they become defensive players that can play offense. That’s the bottom line.

We did enough to win, and it makes me sick to say that. We don't just do enough to win, we play really good basketball... it was like an AAU game in the second half.

I wanna win and I wanna win by playing great basketball, and to me it was like a loss, I didn’t like today. And if the team doesn’t like today then we’ll get better. If the team is okay with today we’re gonna fight.

Indoor66
01-29-2012, 03:16 PM
Back in the 50's it was wild. First, the undergrads had the WHOLE lower level. The fire marshall hadn't arrived and limited the number of students on that level. Pretty much the whole school arrived. Second, the games were at 7 (or 7:30) - following the freshman team's game, and the teams rarely played on the weekend (as I remember it) and never on Sunday. Third, it was possible to arrive just at game time (or after the game started) and get in with no problems. If your friends or frat brothers had seats, they would just scrunch up more. Fourth, there was no press row and the opposing players were often taking the ball out just in fron of you and exposed to all sorts of verbal and at times physical abuse (hat pins were a staple).Things were at times thrown at opposing players during warmups- they were not harmful things but funny - such as inflated condoms at an NC State player who had recently had a paternity suite filed aganist him. It was usually not possible to hear the Pep Band (all students) if you were on the other end of the Indoor Stadium (not CIS as Eddie Cameron was just the AD then) and during the Carolina game you couldn't hear anything anywhere.
You know we were before the Cameron Crazies but we were much more spontaneous and I believe had more fun. The BB game was a happening and if the team won that was great but we were ther just to have a good time. Nothing was choreographed, nobody painted there faces, no blue wigs, nobody had to wear blue tee shirts (or even chose to). We just had fun. I hope the current kids are having as much fun, but I get the feeling I'm watching a stage production whenever I watch a home game. Maybe I'm too harsh.

An accurate reflection. IRRC, games were on Wednesday (7:00 PM) and Saturday (2:00 PM). (High Schools played on Tuesday and Friday).

lilblue
01-29-2012, 04:05 PM
Well, if you don't have the time or desire to respond to specific posts, it's annoying to just scold the entire fan base for saying pretty much anything negative. It's one thing to say that this is "the worst Duke team we've had" (who said that, BTW? I'm guessing nobody), but it's completely different to say, for example, that this team is weak defensively, and you seem to lump these types of comments together in your post:



Did you mean comments like these?

As a matter fact...No, those are critiques and fair opinions and assessments from Coach K, none of those comments are fair weathered, but I think you know that. Keep looking you'll find them :). I truly believe you know what I'm saying and have seen what I'm talking about and you're arguing for the sake of arguing! Be annoyed if you'd like it's your prerogative. And I actually was calling out those spoiled Duke fans and not the entire board, I did not say duke basketball report boards you are spoiled duke fans did I?

loldevilz
01-29-2012, 04:18 PM
I'd just like to point out that Duke fans that have only been here for the last 4 or 5 years probably don't feel like they have been spoiled like older Duke fans. We never saw the Laettner teams or the Ferry teams or even the Boozer/ Brand years. Except for that Magical championship run in 2010. Every year has ended in brutal fashion. Blowouts in the tournament. Blowouts by UNC. Obviously Duke has been better than others but I would hardly call us spoiled. For me that loss to Arizona felt almost as bad as that win against Butler.

Maybe this is why younger fans don't really want to go to the games. I mean if you are treated like you are a spoiled Duke fan when you haven't really experience any of the really good times are you spoiled at all?

DukeWarhead
01-29-2012, 04:52 PM
As a matter fact...No, those are critiques and fair opinions and assessments from Coach K, none of those comments are fair weathered, but I think you know that. Keep looking you'll find them :). I truly believe you know what I'm saying and have seen what I'm talking about and you're arguing for the sake of arguing! Be annoyed if you'd like it's your prerogative. And I actually was calling out those spoiled Duke fans and not the entire board, I did not say duke basketball report boards you are spoiled duke fans did I?

Then, did you post the same "spoiled rotten" message on the other boards you refer to??? If that's where most of your beef lies, I hope that's where you'd want to voice your sanctimony. (Ok, Ok, maybe that's not fair. Shame on me.) I still don't think the "fair weather" or "spoiled rotten" dynamic is as prevelent as you suggest. If one has to look back and sift through several threats to find bits and pieces to support your point, I'd say it's not a particulary strong one.

DukeWarhead
01-29-2012, 04:57 PM
I think as far as the board goes, it used to be that the over-the-top caterwauling was mainly limited to the twelve or twenty-four hours after losses. But now, even close wins precipitate yowling and rending of garments.

Love the hyperbole. Love it. Or perhaps it's sarcasm. Either way, bravo.

cspan37421
01-29-2012, 05:13 PM
Things were at times thrown at opposing players during warmups- they were not harmful things but funny - such as inflated condoms at an NC State player who had recently had a paternity suite filed aganist him.

This was distinct from the Maryland, Herman Veal, and accused sexual misconduct? If so, I am surprised to learn that as early as 1984 the Crazies were recycling their own cleverness.

B-well
01-29-2012, 05:14 PM
The Duke Students Attending paid more attention to supporting the team and creating bedlam than they did to the sitting or standing position of the Duke Fans above the rim.

Perhaps they become bored with the action on the court or they feel inadequate for the task at hand.

I thought they provided woefully little energy yesterday.

uh_no
01-29-2012, 05:16 PM
The Duke Students Attending paid more attention to supporting the team and creating bedlam than they did to the sitting or standing position of the Duke Fans above the rim.

Perhaps they become bored with the action on the court or they feel inadequate for the task at hand.

I thought they provided woefully little energy yesterday.

I really agree. I think this is an important topic for this board to discuss. :P

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?27360-Spoiled-Rotten-Duke-Fans!

Greg_Newton
01-29-2012, 05:32 PM
As a matter fact...No, those are critiques and fair opinions and assessments from Coach K, none of those comments are fair weathered, but I think you know that. Keep looking you'll find them :). I truly believe you know what I'm saying and have seen what I'm talking about and you're arguing for the sake of arguing! Be annoyed if you'd like it's your prerogative. And I actually was calling out those spoiled Duke fans and not the entire board, I did not say duke basketball report boards you are spoiled duke fans did I?

Actually, you pretty much explicitly called out anyone who made negative comments about this team, or questioned the heart they played with, etc., when many of these comments have been legitimate basketball analyses. You've continued to lump posters who make those types of comments in with disgraceful, fair-weathered fans. I'm not a mind reader, so I'm not sure how you expect me somehow know exactly which posts you think are shameful examples of "spoiled rotten Duke fans" and which ones are legitimate critiques from your vague scoldings of the board.

Also, you keep resorting to the "It's not against the rules so I can post whatever I want" defense, which isn't very constructive. The fact that you didn't break any rules doesn't mean I don't have the right to criticize your post.

lilblue
01-29-2012, 05:52 PM
If you start a thread to vaguely call people out - and word it so that most posters could, at some point, have fallen under your umbrella - it's not OUR responsibility to "do the research" into who the posters on your mind are. Seriously?



What in the world? You're just completely shifting the goalposts now.

Not shifting the goalposts. I'm just stating that to say that what I am saying is false is to say that there are not fair weathered or spoiled duke fans on this board. Spoiled Rotten Duke Fans is what this thread is titled and that is who it is addressing... Read it again and then tell me how that calls out the entire fan base!

Newton_14
01-29-2012, 06:12 PM
I think both sides have said all there is to say, and it has now been reduced to personal sniping. Thread Closed.