How to turn Austin into a weapon

[Namtilal]

It seems to me that Austin mostly penetrates when the offense gets stagnant and everyone in the stadium knows he is going to do it. I would like to see him come off a screen and get the ball with some momentum. Then he could attack the basket without being double and triple teamed as often.

Also, good things happen when Mason gets the ball around the free throw stripe and looks for a cutter. I would like to see his passing skills used more.

Mostly, I'm frustrated at how hard this team works to get good shots. Our scoring average is acceptable, but I feel that it's more due to our great shooters than the easy opportunities that our offense provides them.

[mkline09]

Not to derail the discussion before it begins but I honestly feel the greatest concern for this team is its defense. I'm not all that concerned with them offensively. They are averaging 80.5 points per game. But when you allow our opponents to shoot greater than 50 percent in all three of your loses, I think it is time to focus more on defensive execution and less on offensive execution.

But with regard to Austin, it seems like they have one set play for him. A high pick where he can take the ball to the basket or hit the guy rolling to the basket, which he rarely if ever does. I'd like to see more diversity in setting something up for him but I'd also like to seem him find shooters and his bigs. He also really needs to work on going left.

[Kedsy]

Our scoring average is acceptable, but I feel that it's more due to our great shooters than the easy opportunities that our offense provides them.

We have the 3rd best adjusted offensive efficiency in the country, according to Pomeroy. Even unadjusted, we are 9th best in points per possession, 6th best effective FG%, 6th best free throw rate, 86th lowest turnover rate, and 123rd best offensive rebound pct.

You call this "acceptable"? Wow, you're difficult to please.

And yes, our shooting is a big part of that (7th best 3-point %, 12th best FG% overall), but at this point I don't think our offense can be fairly described as "frustrating."

[Olympic Fan]

How to turn Austin into a weapon?

Well, I'd argue that he's already a weapon. The question is how to turn him into a superweapon.

That's easy -- he needs to develop a midrange jump shot.

Right now, he either shoots the 3 (and he does it very well, hitting 40 percent, often from NBA range) or he takes it all the way to the basket. He also does this well and has a nice variety of layups and floaters when he gets close.

But there is no middle to his game and that allows defenses to try and preasure him on the perimeter to take away the 3, then if he drives past his defender, to pack the paint to defend the drive to the hoop.

If he had a 10-12 foot pullup, he'd be impossible to defend.

Maybe that's a good reason for him to reurn next season ... to develop that aspect of his game.

[wilko]

Fire him out of a cannon at the opposing bench!

Austin IS a weapon. Hes just young. He needs seasoning, like a delicious french fry.. and he needs some ketchup

[TruBlu]

Also, good things happen when Mason gets the ball around the free throw stripe and looks for a cutter. I would like to see his passing skills used more.


I just posted on another thread that things do not work out well when Mason gets the ball at the free throw line and tries to work his way in to the basket. I agree that if he passes to the cutter, the results are better.

[ncexnyc]

Fire him out of a cannon at the opposing bench!

Austin IS a weapon. Hes just young. He needs seasoning, like a delicious french fry.. and he needs some ketchup

This just sounds soooooo wrong.:)

[wilko]

This just sounds soooooo wrong.:)

Yeah, prolly so... something needed to be said no matter how absurd... too many folks over analyze this guy.

[jv001]

How to turn Austin into a weapon?

Well, I'd argue that he's already a weapon. The question is how to turn him into a superweapon.

That's easy -- he needs to develop a midrange jump shot.

Right now, he either shoots the 3 (and he does it very well, hitting 40 percent, often from NBA range) or he takes it all the way to the basket. He also does this well and has a nice variety of layups and floaters when he gets close.

But there is no middle to his game and that allows defenses to try and preasure him on the perimeter to take away the 3, then if he drives past his defender, to pack the paint to defend the drive to the hoop.

If he had a 10-12 foot pullup, he'd be impossible to defend.

Maybe that's a good reason for him to reurn next season ... to develop that aspect of his game.

This is so correct. The only thing missing in Austin's arsenal is the mid-range shot. He can do it all as Olympic stated. I would love to see more Duke players use the backboard on mid-range shots. It's an almost forgotten art but man was it effective. GoDuke!

[Acymetric]

I would like to see him finish a little stronger when he gets into the lane, rather than going for trick shot/crafty moves down low. On what percentage of shots does Austin Rivers end up on the court without it being caused by contact, and is that more often than most other guards? My guess is a lot and yes. He is our most athletic guard with respect to jumping ability (well maybe Andre but I guess I'd call him a wing, guard implies more ballhandling), I would love to see him use that part of his game. I didn't watch much of his highschool career as I'm just not that into following high school basketball, but I always thought that was something he was supposed to do well.

[Newton_14]

I would like to see him finish a little stronger when he gets into the lane, rather than going for trick shot/crafty moves down low. On what percentage of shots does Austin Rivers end up on the court without it being caused by contact, and is that more often than most other guards? My guess is a lot and yes. He is our most athletic guard with respect to jumping ability (well maybe Andre but I guess I'd call him a wing, guard implies more ballhandling), I would love to see him use that part of his game. I didn't watch much of his highschool career as I'm just not that into following high school basketball, but I always thought that was something he was supposed to do well.

I don't know Acy... the kid draws a ton of contact that goes uncalled. He gets hammered lots of times on drives and since the early games is not getting to the line nearly as much. It's bizarre really, how many times he takes contact but doesn't draw a whistle. Wojo mentioned the last drive in the FSU game tonight on the radio show. His statement was something to the effect of "Austin did a really good job there finishing even though he took a lot of contact". He was definitely emphasizing there was a lot of contact there and likely should have drawn the whistle.

Sometimes he twists and contorts enough to take minimal contact, but many times, in my view, he draws enough to warrant the foul call. K stays on the ref's in most games so I think he and the staff are frustrated with it.

[Acymetric]

I don't know Acy... the kid draws a ton of contact that goes uncalled. He gets hammered lots of times on drives and since the early games is not getting to the line nearly as much. It's bizarre really, how many times he takes contact but doesn't draw a whistle. Wojo mentioned the last drive in the FSU game tonight on the radio show. His statement was something to the effect of "Austin did a really good job there finishing even though he took a lot of contact". He was definitely emphasizing there was a lot of contact there and likely should have drawn the whistle.

Sometimes he twists and contorts enough to take minimal contact, but many times, in my view, he draws enough to warrant the foul call. K stays on the ref's in most games so I think he and the staff are frustrated with it.

What if he stopped contorting himself to avoid contact and just drew the full force of it? Might force the refs to start making the calls on blatant fouls, which could force people to give him a little bit more space on drives. Just spitballing here, certainly not claiming that this is 100% a solution to any particular problem.

[UrinalCake]

Agree that the refs are more likely to give you the call if you go up strong rather than fading away or trying to pump fake or scoop to avoid the contact. Also agree that Austin isn't getting to the line as often as he was earlier in the season. Right now we're trying to use him the way we used Nolan Smith last year - let him start out top with a ball screen and then choose to drive, dish, or shoot. He's got the physical tools but need to continue to learn to make good decisions, which he's been improving on all season.

I do think he could benefit from some more set plays, and I think that's even more true for Andre. We very rarely run a play to free him up for a catch and shoot, and he's so good at it. Plus it would help his confidence to know that we're running a play for him rather than him having to wait as the ball gets passed around until it gets to him. Overall I think our offense has periods where we seem to be just sitting there not knowing what to do. I know that the goal of the motion offense is to read the defense and to take what they give you, but maybe we're not quite ready to be doing that 100% of the time. And I also know that our offense is rated really highly and is not our weak point, but that doesn't mean we can't continue to look for ways to improve.

[Newton_14]

What if he stopped contorting himself to avoid contact and just drew the full force of it? Might force the refs to start making the calls on blatant fouls, which could force people to give him a little bit more space on drives. Just spitballing here, certainly not claiming that this is 100% a solution to any particular problem.

You may be right there. Given that as of now, it goes uncalled more often than not, it may be a better idea to seek out the contact with the goal of drawing the foul first and let making the shot be secondary. Not a bad idea at all actually.

[devildeac]

I don't know Acy... the kid draws a ton of contact that goes uncalled. He gets hammered lots of times on drives and since the early games is not getting to the line nearly as much. It's bizarre really, how many times he takes contact but doesn't draw a whistle. Wojo mentioned the last drive in the FSU game tonight on the radio show. His statement was something to the effect of "Austin did a really good job there finishing even though he took a lot of contact". He was definitely emphasizing there was a lot of contact there and likely should have drawn the whistle.

Sometimes he twists and contorts enough to take minimal contact, but many times, in my view, he draws enough to warrant the foul call. K stays on the ref's in most games so I think he and the staff are frustrated with it.

Simple explanation is that his name is not hanboro. (jk. sort of)

Ozzie and I have talked about this on multiple occasions and I agree with Newt and others who have posted similar thoughts. He takes a lot of slaps, bumps and near body slams and seems like he goes to the line less now than earlier in the year. Of course, if he starts shooting 6-8 FT/game going forward, the tired old "Duke gets all the calls" argument will return with full fury. And I agree with one of the earlier posters, too, in that if he starts pulling up for that 10-15 foot jumper regularly and making a generous %age of them, he will be extremely difficult to defend.

[Kedsy]

The only thing missing in Austin's arsenal is the mid-range shot.

Well, I'd also love him to be more comfortable kicking it out after he draws a triple-team. That comfort isn't really in his arsenal yet either.

[turnandburn55]

I remember so many of the same criticisms of J-Dub as a freshman (yes, I know, not the same player, difference in their game..)

"Control, control, you must learn control!" Just seems like the tools are all there put not quite fitting together comfortably-- something tells me we'd see a big-time leap if he comes back.

[Olympic Fan]

I don't know Acy... the kid draws a ton of contact that goes uncalled. He gets hammered lots of times on drives and since the early games is not getting to the line nearly as much. It's bizarre really, how many times he takes contact but doesn't draw a whistle. Wojo mentioned the last drive in the FSU game tonight on the radio show. His statement was something to the effect of "Austin did a really good job there finishing even though he took a lot of contact". He was definitely emphasizing there was a lot of contact there and likely should have drawn the whistle.

Sometimes he twists and contorts enough to take minimal contact, but many times, in my view, he draws enough to warrant the foul call. K stays on the ref's in most games so I think he and the staff are frustrated with it.

Watch the replay of Austin's game-tying drive with 4.9 seconds left:

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/26283066/34495064

He is absolutely hammered -- knocked to the floor -- by Bernard James with no call.

Tell me again how Duke gets all the calls.

[jv001]

Well, I'd also love him to be more comfortable kicking it out after he draws a triple-team. That comfort isn't really in his arsenal yet either.

You're probably correct ^. He has it in his arsenal but doesn't use it near enough. Sometimes it looks like he makes his mind up before he starts his drive into the lane. It could be he's thinking about the contact he's getting ready to receive. Still I'm pleased with Austin's play to date. There's a lot to learn for a freshman coming into the ACC. GoDuke!

[devildeac]

Watch the replay of Austin's game-tying drive with 4.9 seconds left:

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/26283066/34495064

He is absolutely hammered -- knocked to the floor -- by Bernard James with no call.

Tell me again how Duke gets all the calls.

Preaching to the choir/same old discussions we have had here for over a decade since Packer trotted out his rant in the 2001 Final Four to that effect. If we get the call and Rivers makes the FT and f$u misses their last shot and we win, it was a "gift" from the refs. If there's no call then we argue that the refs swallow their whistles and won't let the game be decided on a play like that. And please don't think I am being a smart-aleck with this response as I am with Newt and OF on their thoughts/postings about this completely. I think K and the staff complained several times during this game about the contact that Rivers draws repeatedly and rarely gets the calls. Highly frustrating to watch.

[COYS]

How to turn Austin into a weapon?

Well, I'd argue that he's already a weapon. The question is how to turn him into a superweapon.

That's easy -- he needs to develop a midrange jump shot.

Right now, he either shoots the 3 (and he does it very well, hitting 40 percent, often from NBA range) or he takes it all the way to the basket. He also does this well and has a nice variety of layups and floaters when he gets close.

But there is no middle to his game and that allows defenses to try and preasure him on the perimeter to take away the 3, then if he drives past his defender, to pack the paint to defend the drive to the hoop.

If he had a 10-12 foot pullup, he'd be impossible to defend.

Maybe that's a good reason for him to reurn next season ... to develop that aspect of his game.

So simple but so true. He is so quick with his dribble and hesitation moves that if defenders had to worry about his mid range jumper in addition to his drives to the rim and his deep threes, we'd see far more defenders caught up in the air after a crossover/hesitation at 15 feet as Austin blows by for an easy lay-in.

[Kedsy]

Still I'm pleased with Austin's play to date. There's a lot to learn for a freshman coming into the ACC. GoDuke!

I totally agree. I think the comparison to Jason Williams is an interesting one:

JW: 14.5 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 6.5 apg, 41.9 fg%, 35.4 3pt%, 68.5 ft%, 0.2 bpg, 2.4 spg, 34.0 mpg, 4.1 to pg
AR: 14.4 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 2.1 apg, 44.3 fg%, 39.0 3pt%, 68.4 ft%, 0.1 bpg, 1.0 spg, 29.6 mpg, 2.3 to pg

Points, blocks, and field goal percentage are practically identical, although since Jason played a more minutes, Austin's averages are a bit better. Austin is also a better shooter from the field, and believe it or not he has a lot fewer turnovers. The places where Jason exceeded Austin are he was a much better rebounder and a much better passer -- which is why I say I wish Austin had the drive-and-kick in his bag because he could easily average 4 to 6 apg if he did.

Jason's defense (including but not limited to his steals) was much better than Austin's as well, but I feel of all our players, Austin is the one who has potential to get much better on D in the short term. That's why I've been saying I'd like to see Austin defend the opposing PG.

[COYS]

Jason's defense (including but not limited to his steals) was much better than Austin's as well, but I feel of all our players, Austin is the one who has potential to get much better on D in the short term. That's why I've been saying I'd like to see Austin defend the opposing PG.

You've mentioned this a number of times already, but I think I'm ready to jump on this bandwagon, at least as an experiment. While Austin has been excellent on offense so far, he probably has more room to grow THIS SEASON on the defensive end. Since Duke is already giving up significant size against most point guards and shooting guards, I'm not sure it would make much difference to slide Austin over to put pressure on the ball and allow Seth, Tyler, and Quinn to play off the ball. Tyler, in particular, is an excellent off the ball defender. Plus, even when the opposing 2 guard gets the ball, Seth and Tyler won't have to stay with their man in open court beyond the three point arc, where I believe they have the most problems. Meanwhile, Austin's extra size and quickness could help Duke's D accomplish the goal of forcing the opposing offense to initiate farther away from the basket, which will give our guys more time to read plays and rotate accordingly. Kedsy, I agree. I would be curious to see if the best way to turn Austin into a superweapon is to unleash him on opposing ball handlers.

[jv001]

You've mentioned this a number of times already, but I think I'm ready to jump on this bandwagon, at least as an experiment. While Austin has been excellent on offense so far, he probably has more room to grow THIS SEASON on the defensive end. Since Duke is already giving up significant size against most point guards and shooting guards, I'm not sure it would make much difference to slide Austin over to put pressure on the ball and allow Seth, Tyler, and Quinn to play off the ball. Tyler, in particular, is an excellent off the ball defender. Plus, even when the opposing 2 guard gets the ball, Seth and Tyler won't have to stay with their man in open court beyond the three point arc, where I believe they have the most problems. Meanwhile, Austin's extra size and quickness could help Duke's D accomplish the goal of forcing the opposing offense to initiate farther away from the basket, which will give our guys more time to read plays and rotate accordingly. Kedsy, I agree. I would be curious to see if the best way to turn Austin into a superweapon is to unleash him on opposing ball handlers.

Count me in! As you mention, Tyler is a good off the ball defender. Well Seth is also. With those quick hands he makes a lot of steals and deflections. Austin could be just what we need for pressure on the ball. The only draw back could be foul trouble if he's not smart in defending a real quick pg. But I think he could do it and do it well. Maybe Coach K is going to pull an Eliott Williams on the rest of the ACC. I think Williams guarded the opponents best ball handler. GoDuke!

[Kedsy]

You've mentioned this a number of times already, but I think I'm ready to jump on this bandwagon, at least as an experiment.

Sorry if I've been too repetitive. But I'm happy someone other than me thinks this is a good idea. Like you say, as an experiment.

[COYS]

Count me in! As you mention, Tyler is a good off the ball defender. Well Seth is also. With those quick hands he makes a lot of steals and deflections. Austin could be just what we need for pressure on the ball. The only draw back could be foul trouble if he's not smart in defending a real quick pg. But I think he could do it and do it well. Maybe Coach K is going to pull an Eliott Williams on the rest of the ACC. I think Williams guarded the opponents best ball handler. GoDuke!

I, too, would list potential foul trouble and fatigue as the two primary negatives to this plan, and it is possible that K has tried it in practices and not liked what he saw. Harassing opposing ball handlers is exhausting work for someone playing his first college season who is also expected to shoulder a big chunk of the offense. As talented a defender as Nolan was, it took him two years to figure out how to excel on both ends. I don't think Duke improves much if we weaken our offense to moderately improve our defense. While I'd love to see the experiment, it would be very interesting to see if Austin's production on offense remains consistent if he's asked to change roles on defense.

[jv001]

I, too, would list potential foul trouble and fatigue as the two primary negatives to this plan, and it is possible that K has tried it in practices and not liked what he saw. Harassing opposing ball handlers is exhausting work for someone playing his first college season who is also expected to shoulder a big chunk of the offense. As talented a defender as Nolan was, it took him two years to figure out how to excel on both ends. I don't think Duke improves much if we weaken our offense to moderately improve our defense. While I'd love to see the experiment, it would be very interesting to see if Austin's production on offense remains consistent if he's asked to change roles on defense.

Quinn could be key here to give Austin enough rest to keep him fresh and out of foul trouble. On the defensive end, I would hope that Seth gets the opposing pg while Austin rests. Then there's Tyler who could help with this. Especially if he plays the pg by trying to deny him the ball. I really don't know the answer to our defensive woes but I'm confident Coach K will work it out. GoDuke!