MBB: Duke vs Wake Forest Pre-Game and In-Game Thread

[Bob Green]

The game tips-off tomorrow at 7:02 pm. Here are links to the game notes and full game notes at GoDuke.com:

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=205364018&DB_OEM_ID=4200

https://www.nmnathletics.com//pdf8/817365.pdf?ATCLID=205364018&SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200

Vegas odds have opened with Duke a 22.5 points favorite and the over/under set at 146:

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/las-vegas/?s=2166

We should be looking for a final score in the neighborhood of 85-62.

[-jk]

Well, the uva final score missed Vegas by a good bit. But I'm always hopeful. Not quite "Ozzietomistic," but hopeful. (I was permanently scarred in the early 70's. Gone in 17 seconds and all that.)

-jk

[flyingdutchdevil]

How bad (or good) is Wake this year? They must be better than the Wake of last year, but that's like saying that McCants had a better NBA career than Sean May...

[Bob Green]

How bad (or good) is Wake this year?

According to the ACC Sports Journal, Wake is the worst team in the ACC:

http://www.accsports.com/articles/2012011612027/acc-hoops-power-rankings-jan-16.php

[Saratoga2]

We should be well favored against Wake, especially at home. Rather than watch for the score, or how much we win by, etc. I would be looking for how we continue with the improvement areas. In my view, these are:

1. Getting started with intensity. We certainly are having a lot of games where we don't seem to come alive for the first 5 or 10 minutes into the game. To me, Mason is a slow starter and seems to catch fire later on in the game. To beat the better teams, we will need to learn to come out with intensity.
2. Will Quinn continue his solid PG play. If Quinn starts, it might help us get off a little better, since he is unlikely to have the turnovers early on. He can also set up some plays inside to get our bigs going.
3. Will Austin get his offensive game going more smoothly. Clearly he is in the adjustment process, finding what works and what doesn't at the ACC level. With so much skill and desire, I expect him to break out of his scoring slowdown. My view is that he has to ask himself "what is the best way for the team to score" rather than "how do I score" to make that kind of improvement. Less turnovers, more team offensive efficiency.
4. Will Mason continue his free throw shooting improvement that he showed against Clemson. While no one can expect lights out 100 % shooting, I would be satisfied if he could hit 2/3s of his FTs.
5. Finally, will Andre continue to return from his disappearing act and provide offensive points going forward? He can be such a weapon, we really need him to get double figures on a regular basis.

[COYS]

We should be well favored against Wake, especially at home. Rather than watch for the score, or how much we win by, etc. I would be looking for how we continue with the improvement areas. In my view, these are:

1. Getting started with intensity. We certainly are having a lot of games where we don't seem to come alive for the first 5 or 10 minutes into the game. To me, Mason is a slow starter and seems to catch fire later on in the game. To beat the better teams, we will need to learn to come out with intensity.
2. Will Quinn continue his solid PG play. If Quinn starts, it might help us get off a little better, since he is unlikely to have the turnovers early on. He can also set up some plays inside to get our bigs going.
3. Will Austin get his offensive game going more smoothly. Clearly he is in the adjustment process, finding what works and what doesn't at the ACC level. With so much skill and desire, I expect him to break out of his scoring slowdown. My view is that he has to ask himself "what is the best way for the team to score" rather than "how do I score" to make that kind of improvement. Less turnovers, more team offensive efficiency.
4. Will Mason continue his free throw shooting improvement that he showed against Clemson. While no one can expect lights out 100 % shooting, I would be satisfied if he could hit 2/3s of his FTs.
5. Finally, will Andre continue to return from his disappearing act and provide offensive points going forward? He can be such a weapon, we really need him to get double figures on a regular basis.


Great points. I would also add the perimeter rotation to things to keep an eye on. As Tommy's excellent stats have indicated as well as K's own desire to return more frequently to the Seth, Andre, Austin backcourt, our defense seems to be at it's best with those three on the court. Many believe, as do I, that for this season the degree of success of these three on the court together is a major component in determining how far the team can go. If Andre can continue his strong play, it makes it easier to keep this lineup on the floor. It also makes our size disadvantage on the perimeter less of an issue. Quinn and Tyler have a lot to offer. Certainly a fast paced attack led by Quinn is appealing as is the defensive intensity Tyler brings. However, there are many things to love about the lineup that started the season and I hope that those three can continue their strong play.

[superdave]

3. Will Austin get his offensive game going more smoothly. Clearly he is in the adjustment process, finding what works and what doesn't at the ACC level. With so much skill and desire, I expect him to break out of his scoring slowdown. My view is that he has to ask himself "what is the best way for the team to score" rather than "how do I score" to make that kind of improvement. Less turnovers, more team offensive efficiency.


Two things that I've seen Austin do that are correctable -

First, he occasionally dribbles too high, allowing defenders more room to swipe at the unprotected ball. I think he does it leading up to a jump-stop sometimes and if he tries to turn a corner or split defenders other times. If he can avoid high dribbles and keep the ball lower then he'll protect the ball more.

Second, Austin is a little too casual at taking his two steps and going up for his shot and it allows the ball to be stripped. He could stand to tuck the ball in like a running back once he's committed to getting to the rim. I've seen other players do this in the past, putting a second hand on the ball or cuffing the ball in order to prevent a strip while jumping towards the rim. I think this is what Jay Bilas' is referring to as "being strong with the ball".

He's improved at keeping his head up and finding a shooter and I hope to see him continue to look for the floater on occasion too. Austin is definitely still on the learning curve when it comes to decision making and protecting the ball.

[jv001]

Two things that I've seen Austin do that are correctable -

First, he occasionally dribbles too high, allowing defenders more room to swipe at the unprotected ball. I think he does it leading up to a jump-stop sometimes and if he tries to turn a corner or split defenders other times. If he can avoid high dribbles and keep the ball lower then he'll protect the ball more.

Second, Austin is a little too casual at taking his two steps and going up for his shot and it allows the ball to be stripped. He could stand to tuck the ball in like a running back once he's committed to getting to the rim. I've seen other players do this in the past, putting a second hand on the ball or cuffing the ball in order to prevent a strip while jumping towards the rim. I think this is what Jay Bilas' is referring to as "being strong with the ball".

He's improved at keeping his head up and finding a shooter and I hope to see him continue to look for the floater on occasion too. Austin is definitely still on the learning curve when it comes to decision making and protecting the ball.

Good observations superdave. I think Austin or any guard that is able to get to the rim should take a look at Kyrie's ability to finish strong. He's taken that ability to the next level against even tougher play. Sometimes he would tuck the ball and other times he somehow got the ball in the basket by using his strength. But it could be that strength is not quite there for Austin yet. Another reason for coming back to Duke next year. GoDuke!

[gumbomoop]

Thought I'd return to this post from the Clemson thread, as it seems a good question that didn't get much of an answer in the couple of days after that game.


From those who watched [the Clemson game], do you get the impression that this team is continuing to progress and "find themselves" as the season progresses? Honestly, I'm looking for that "identity progress" thing as much as I am for big wins at this point of the season...

Now might be a good time to think about the team's identity, as we get 2 games in 48 hours. Maybe this won't be a full test, as Wake and FSU are both home games, but still, by Sat eve the Devils will have played 5 conference games.

I suppose, early on, the Maui tourney performance led us to think that this would be a reasonably fluid, tough team that would be exciting to watch. This Maui tourney seemed special, with an absolutely rousing atmosphere for the final. Ryan was Maui MVP, Mason played superbly against Robinson in the final, Andre, Seth, and Austin had good moments, and of course Tyler capped it off. As I say, exciting, even joyful performances.

Since then, mostly good, a little bad, but a lot more inconsistency - for almost all players and the team generally - than the Maui games might seem to have predicted. Mason has perhaps been our most consistent player, not dominant exactly, but dependable. Has any of Seth, Austin, Ryan, Andre put together 3 good games to start conference play? OTOH, in the first 3 ACC games, at least 3 of our 8-rotation have had good games.

Still, the puzzling issue of "identity progress." Perhaps Duke has not progressed as much as the joyfulness of Maui promised. And maybe identity is tough to pin down, if almost every player is somewhat inconsistent - really good, then not so much, then another guy steps up, then another, but not the same 3 guys every game. Or maybe the team's identity isn't tied to some threesome-consistency, but to team depth, Mason's emergence, Quinn's arrival, Miles's strong rebounding and hustle-injection, and the still-consistent-enough 4-tandem-3-bombers. I'd claim, too, that this is a shot-blocking team. Part of our hidden identity.

On his TV show last Sat, K stated: "The 2 keys for our team this year are the evolution of our junior class, and their setting the standard for the big freshman class." Not sure whether this evolution is yet definable. I guess the identity is still a "work in progress." Maybe we'll be able to see it by Sat eve. Or not, even if we win both games.

[Kedsy]

If Quinn starts, it might help us get off a little better, since he is unlikely to have the turnovers early on.

Well, Quinn started against Clemson, and he contributed to our slow start by turning it over 21 seconds into the game, so he's not a panacea. I think defensive intensity at the outset is the key, both in the beginning of the game and the rest of it. Though the items on your list are certainly worth watching, I'd put defense at the top of any list of things to look for in any Duke game this season.

[Kedsy]

Mason has perhaps been our most consistent player, not dominant exactly, but dependable. Has any of Seth, Austin, Ryan, Andre put together 3 good games to start conference play? OTOH, in the first 3 ACC games, at least 3 of our 8-rotation have had good games.

There's a difference between good games and great games. I think Seth has had three pretty good games. I think Ryan, Andre, Miles, and Quinn have all had at least two good games out of three. I think Tyler has done exactly what he was supposed to do (play pesky defense). So really, the inconsistency in conference play has all been Austin, and as a freshman with a ton of expectations on him, we should expect some inconsistency.

As far as the elusive "identity," I believe the only identity we're lacking is a defensive identity. Once the team begins to gel on defense and consistently bring defensive intensity, this sort of conversation won't be needed anymore.

[mapei]

Wow, no one has posted about this game since 1pm today???

We're having a shaky start but a 3-point lead as of now . . .

[mapei]

Dawkins!

(might as well talk to myself in here)

[dairedevil]

A few early TOs, but they seem to be playing with some intensity - not like they can just sit back, relax, and put a W in the column.

[mapei]

Kelly is playing really well tonight.

[riverside6]

For those interested, live tempo-based stats for the game here, we recently upgraded our server so any slowness with the site that you may have experienced should now be resolved.

http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=10522

[dairedevil]

At some point, Wake may figure out that Dawkins is just hanging around the 3 pt line, and actually put someone on him. Until then, just keep putting up and sinking those unguarded 3s!

[mapei]

wow - 3 fouls on Curry?

[mapei]

Wow, Andre!

[Ggallagher]

Man I like it when Andre smiles like that - keep knockin' em down.

[Gthoma2a]

Man of the match... Andre!

[Sgt. Dingleberry]

Winning is great and all, but that look on Dawkins' face when that 3 rattled home was priceless.

Way to go kid. Way to hang tough.:cool:

[MCFinARL]

Man I like it when Andre smiles like that - keep knockin' em down.

Me too--he is on fire!

[ChrisP]

Really happy for Andre thus far. Not thrilled with the D as we seem inconsistent at best on that end of the floor.

On another note...Mason is getting bumped and shoved EVERY single time he catches it in the post (with no call, of course).

[MCFinARL]

Mason's hook doesn't seem to be working tonight.

[RoyalBlue08]

There is nothing prettier in basketball today than Dre when he gets hot. So smooth!

[Gthoma2a]

When Andre is on, it isn't even fair. I love it! We need to run plays for him more often.

[dairedevil]

wow - 3 fouls on Curry?

ESPN stats shows 2 on Curry, 3 on Hairston. I'm trying to watch on a tiny hospital room tv, so I have no idea what's correct.

[Ggallagher]

Come on Andre - six more points and you're beating Wake single handed.

[Gthoma2a]

He has been that kid since the beginning. He is just so fun to watch.

[77devil]

There is nothing prettier in basketball today than Dre when he gets hot. So smooth!

Channeling J.J.

[mapei]

We are giving up a lot of breaks, though . . . What's up with that?

[ChrisP]

Mason's hook doesn't seem to be working tonight.

He did have one blocked but he's been getting shoved (with two hands, usually) in the side or back every time he makes a move to the bucket. Kinda hard to make shots when you're being fouled like that.

[mapei]

Pretty drive by Austin -

[CoachJ10]

hating on Duke.

This man is a one-trick pony.

[mapei]

hating on Duke.

This man is a one-trick pony.

I don't really hear that tonight.

[1 24 90]

Andre hits 7 threes in a half and Duke's only up by 13? What is wrong with this picture? The defense really needs work.

[Duvall]

We are giving up a lot of breaks, though . . . What's up with that?

The same thing that's wrong every night? Duke's transition defense has been weak all year. Probably a result of having guards that are both small and slow.

[moonpie23]

wake is getting some easy looks from the slack d....

everyone is having fun watching Dre, but they'd better knuckle down and tighten the screws on wake....


like they're jj watching....

[Oriole Way]

Such a relief to see Dawkins finally moving without the ball - working hard, running hard, and using screens. I hope he can make this a permanent change to his work ethic and game.

[mapei]

The same thing that's wrong every night? Duke's transition defense has been weak all year. Probably a result of having guards that are both small and slow.

Maybe. Austin's not slow, though; Andre's not slow. Part of it is breaks off turnovers, I guess.

[WiJoe]

What happened to snrub chat? I miss it

[mapei]

What happened to snrub chat? I miss it

Me too! Hasn't worked all year . . .

[MCFinARL]

ESPN stats shows 2 on Curry, 3 on Hairston. I'm trying to watch on a tiny hospital room tv, so I have no idea what's correct.

I'm pretty sure it is 3 on Curry, 2 on Hairston--but I wouldn't want to bet money.

[mapei]

Patrick said 3 on Curry, I was just asking to confirm. It was really early, something like 7 minutes still to go in the 1st half.

[dairedevil]

Such a relief to see Dawkins finally moving without the ball - working hard, running hard, and using screens. I hope he can make this a permanent change to his work ethic and game.

Ditto. I hate when he seems to just hang out in a corner waiting for somebody to pass him the ball so he can shoot for 3. It will be interesting to see if he stays hot in the second half.

[mapei]

The record is 10, right?

[Oriole Way]

Ditto. I hate when he seems to just hang out in a corner waiting for somebody to pass him the ball so he can shoot for 3. It will be interesting to see if he stays hot in the second half.

As long as he keeps hustling without the ball, I won't mind if he goes 0-5 from the field in the second half. If he continues to use screens and move like a madman without the ball, he will become a radically better player. He's always been the best pure 3-pt shooter we've had since J.J. Redick, and I've always felt Dawkins needed to analyze endless game tape of Redick and learn from how Redick moved without the ball. For the first time, I see him moving similarly to how Redick did, instead of floating around the perimeter.

[1 24 90]

The record is 10, right?

Battier & JJ share the record with 9.

[dairedevil]

Well, if your expectations of the game outcome are based on how each team does in the first 5 minutes of the second half, it looks pretty good for Duke. There is a lot of basketball still to play, and I've seen big leads evaporate.

[ChrisP]

Just wanted to give a little shout out to Austin for how he's playing tonight. I like the patience, the decision making, and especially loving the focus on the FT line! He has good form and should definitely be a 75%-80% from the line (and he is tonight) :D

[94duke]

Battier & JJ share the record with 9.

I think it is just Battier...

Most 3-Point Field Goals
Duke Shane Battier vs. Princeton, 11/14/2000 9

see p.127
http://www.goduke.com/fls/4200/web-docs/2011-12_Duke-MBB_Records--109-150.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=4200

[mapei]

I have to admit that part of me wants to see Nikita M succeed. He was maligned, somewhat unfairly, at Georgetown.

[ChrisP]

Is it just me or does it seem like we should have a bigger lead here? Austin's 3 just put us back up to 17. I'm not complaining...just seems like a weird game.

[mapei]

Feels kind of listless as a spectator.

[dairedevil]

Wake starting to hit some 3's. They aren't giving up. (unlike some teams...)

[statik73]

Look at page 117 though

[1 24 90]

I think it is just Battier...

Most 3-Point Field Goals
Duke Shane Battier vs. Princeton, 11/14/2000 9

see p.127
http://www.goduke.com/fls/4200/web-docs/2011-12_Duke-MBB_Records--109-150.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=4200

I thought so too but I have a hard copy of the 2007 media guide and it shows JJ with 9 in that big game against Texas. I always thought it was just Shane though.

Just looked at your link and it also says JJ had 9 against Texas in 2005 on Page 117.

[94duke]

Thanks for the correction. Here's the box score from the JJ vs TX game (9-16 3PT).

http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/games/boxscore.php?gameid=20051210

[ChrisP]

Come on, Austin, don't make me look bad for praising you earlier, dude!

[mapei]

That was such a great game for us - #1 vs #2 at the time, IIRC.

[ChrisP]

I hope Curry's ok but why didn't he pass it back to Mason on that break? Looked like an easier shot for Plumlee.

[1 24 90]

Come on, Austin, don't make me look bad for praising you earlier, dude!

Just be happy that he actually smiled on the court after hitting that banked in 3.

[mapei]

Curry's FT stroke is really ugly - kind of surprising. He sort of heaves it.

[Gthoma2a]

I can't stand Elmore.

[CoachJ10]

I can't stand Elmore.

He just can't help himself from taking any dig he can.

[Ggallagher]

He just can't help himself from taking any dig he can.
OK - I can't stand him either but that's TWICE tonight he's said Duke is the best team in the ACC. He didn't even seem to be choking or gagging when he said it either.

But he's still really bad.

[ChrisP]

That was definitely a foul on Hairston, but Elmore is wrong in saying that it was "excessive". It was absolutely a foul but truly not a dirty play at all. I do hope that this "trend" of calling phantom flagrant fouls against Duke big men has seen the end of it's run at 2 games....

[dairedevil]

Where's Dre been the second half? I only see him taking (and missing) one shot?

[mapei]

That was a really stupid shot by our #13 - MG? Not that the game is in doubt, but still . . .

[lotusland]

Cook hobbling after the tree

[mapei]

Cook hobbling after the tree

Sure looked that way

[Chris Randolph]

Solid win for Duke. Glad to see K mixing up the lineups a bit. This game could have been much worse. It was not worse mostly because of K's decision to rest some guys. With Florida State coming up Saturday afternoon, this was a smart move by K. Andre and Ryan were great, Austin showed flashes again and Tyler did well finding the open man