Roy Williams' Greatest Hits: Vol 1

[saxman717]

Who could forget this timeless classic from 2003.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqOlwEYrT0I

or this authoritative masterpiece from 2009....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGwgTjt1_qs

Rock yourself gently to sleep with this easy listening....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy22AJwPZno

or explore his more abstract side in....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dpf9oBHO66Y

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7CZ8eMme3U&feature=endscreen&NR=1

But for endless enjoyment, nothing beats.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReINesMZ1nU

2288

[Cell-R]

Most of those links don't work because they are shortened. Try it again.

[saxman717]

Most of those links don't work because they are shortened. Try it again.

Links fixed --- thanks for the heads up:cool:

[Lennies]

Separated at birth?

22912292

[UrinalCake]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL538F10B5658E8380&feature=player_detailpage&v=dXtCtfn8wYE#t=90s

[millerecu]

I thought I would share the fact that the heels made ESPN's bottom 10 twice in one week. Classic!

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/page/bottom10120117/bottom-10-search-all-wrong-college-basketball

[mpholt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL538F10B5658E8380&feature=player_detailpage&v=dXtCtfn8wYE#t=90s


haha, that is just too funny... in all fairness, he's a good sport for getting out there with the team. :)

[fitimi1]

Does this remind you of anyone. (Stay tuned all the way to the end)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuP9YClyPRY

[Newton_14]

Does this remind you of anyone. (Stay tuned all the way to the end)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuP9YClyPRY

After a slow start, that was classic! Very much worth the wait til the very end! (Don't close it until the video actually stops playing. It appears to stop with about 20 more seconds left).

Very fitting!

[Bluedevil114]

After a slow start, that was classic! Very much worth the wait til the very end! (Don't close it until the video actually stops playing. It appears to stop with about 20 more seconds left).

Very fitting!

That is about 6 seconds longer than Roy and his team quits.

[JNort]

I must say I really dislike this thread but at the same time it is amazing. It keeps making me laugh but at the same time I really don't like having UNC or UNC related threads on the Duke forum (good or bad) just because it gives them attention/acknowledges their existence . HOWEVER.... since it is already here lets keep filling this one up. :cool:

[waitress]

(JANUARY 17, 2012 CHAPEL HILL, N.C.) Details have emerged about a cell phone call made to University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill head men’s basketball coach Roy Williams soon after the Tar Heels lost in Tallahassee Saturday...

link (https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/hartsell/www/Sunk.htm)

[allenmurray]

(JANUARY 17, 2012 CHAPEL HILL, N.C.) Details have emerged about a cell phone call made to University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill head men’s basketball coach Roy Williams soon after the Tar Heels lost in Tallahassee Saturday...

link (https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/hartsell/www/Sunk.htm)

That is really unfair to Roy. He didn't abandon his players. He tripped and fell into the locker room.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

(JANUARY 17, 2012 CHAPEL HILL, N.C.) Details have emerged about a cell phone call made to University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill head men’s basketball coach Roy Williams soon after the Tar Heels lost in Tallahassee Saturday...

link (https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/hartsell/www/Sunk.htm)
This is an instant classic! Nice first post, waitress! :cool:

[waitress]

Service with a smile.

[saxman717]

I must say I really dislike this thread but at the same time it is amazing. It keeps making me laugh but at the same time I really don't like having UNC or UNC related threads on the Duke forum (good or bad) just because it gives them attention/acknowledges their existence . HOWEVER.... since it is already here lets keep filling this one up. :cool:

One of the beauties of being a Duke fan is having a Southern Gentleman like ol' Cut-'n-Run Roy as your arch-nemesis's head coach! Even though this thread is UNC-related and gives them a little attention, it's for all the right reasons from a Dukie's POV. I'd love to see it sticky-posted to the top of the forum as a Shrine for his silliness and to keep track of all future shenanigans by ol Huckleberry Roy.....


.....because you KNOW there will be more goodies.......he really is the gift that keeps on giving!:D

[saxman717]

Roy was famous before Kansas?

2297

[roywhite]

I feel like this is worthy of inclusion on the "Greatest Hits" album:

Roy speaking in Charlotte (http://northcarolina.scout.com/2/1181033.html)


** Williams called this past season “hard”. Despite the 32-6 record, Williams said the team never “had the chance to celebrate” aside from the victory over Duke to end the season.

However, the team thought about cutting down the nets in Cameron Indoor Stadium, but Williams thought it might cause a scene.



** Williams called John Clougherty, the ACC Head of Officials, this season for the first time in three years in reference to the home loss to Duke. Specifically, Williams called to contest the physical play against Tyler Zeller in that game.

“When he inadvertently tipped that basketball in, he got shoved like crazy from the back,”

[Mike Corey]

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.

[oldnavy]

Loved the part about how he went to Ames Iowa, and {K's but} only went twice.... yea, so how did that work out for you Roy??? You basically landed the most overhyped high school prim donna in the history of the sport.... congrats. Sounds like K may have had a little more sense to not waste as much time on him as you did.
Wah, wah, wah... Zeller got pushed.... get over it. You had four years of Hansbrough walking up and down the lane initiating more contact than a middle linebacker in the NFL on a Sunday, yet went to the line more that anyone in ACC history….
Why don’t you shut up and learn how to manage a game so you won’t need to worry about a missed call late in a game that was in the bag that is until your players weren’t “coached to burn clock”….

[Dev11]

Even though it would suck to at CIS for a loss to UNC that clinches the conference, I would love to witness what happens when Roy tries to cut down our nets.

[Native]

Even though it would suck to at CIS for a loss to UNC that clinches the conference, I would love to witness what happens when Roy tries to cut down our nets.

Yeah, that definitely would not have gone over well -- I think it'd be interesting to see what K would do in that situation.

[Class of '94]

Loved the part about how he went to Ames Iowa, and {K's but} only went twice.... yea, so how did that work out for you Roy??? You basically landed the most overhyped high school prim donna in the history of the sport.... congrats. Sounds like K may have had a little more sense to not waste as much time on him as you did.
Wah, wah, wah... Zeller got pushed.... get over it. You had four years of Hansbrough walking up and down the lane initiating more contact than a middle linebacker in the NFL on a Sunday, yet went to the line more that anyone in ACC history….
Why don’t you shut up and learn how to manage a game so you won’t need to worry about a missed call late in a game that was in the bag that is until your players weren’t “coached to burn clock”….

Love it!!!! On a Hansbrough sidenote, I've watched several Pacers games over the last few years; and in a league where they frequently allow players to take extra steps, Hansbrough has been called for more walks this year than I could ever recall him getting called for in his four years of college combined.

I know it was Roy was at a Booster dinner; but why on God's green earth would he make those kinds of public statements towards K and Duke? K would never say anything remotely similar about UNC and Roy in the public like that. Just when I thought Roy was over his inferiority complex in regards to K, it comes back to bite him in the rear end again.

[moonpie23]

what about having austin get a ladder and cut the nets down at the dome?

[gethlives]

Loved the part about how he went to Ames Iowa, and {K's but} only went twice.... yea, so how did that work out for you Roy??? You basically landed the most overhyped high school prim donna in the history of the sport.... congrats. Sounds like K may have had a little more sense to not waste as much time on him as you did..

Curious. . . Do you honestly think that landing the ACC Rookie of the Year, who won countless games for Carolina in his two years (Miami, Clemson and FSU his freshman year and big time shots against Wisconsin and others this year) was not worth it? I get that Duke fans are bitter about the way that Barnes chose his school but any rational fan has to admit that the kid played well for Carolina even if you think he ended up not being what some might have hoped.

[Ichabod Drain]

Curious. . . Do you honestly think that landing the ACC Rookie of the Year, who won countless games for Carolina in his two years (Miami, Clemson and FSU his freshman year and big time shots against Wisconsin and others this year) was not worth it? I get that Duke fans are bitter about the way that Barnes chose his school but any rational fan has to admit that the kid played well for Carolina even if you think he ended up not being what some might have hoped.

Barnes did do a lot of great things for Carolina and was a very solid college basketball player. But to say "he ended up not being what some might have hoped" is quite an understatement.

[OldPhiKap]

I gotta think Roy will hang it up before Mike.

[msdukie]

Even though it would suck to at CIS for a loss to UNC that clinches the conference, I would love to witness what happens when Roy tries to cut down our nets.

Pretty sure they didn't clinch the conference that night or ANY night this year (or since 2008).

[Newton_14]

Curious. . . Do you honestly think that landing the ACC Rookie of the Year, who won countless games for Carolina in his two years (Miami, Clemson and FSU his freshman year and big time shots against Wisconsin and others this year) was not worth it? I get that Duke fans are bitter about the way that Barnes chose his school but any rational fan has to admit that the kid played well for Carolina even if you think he ended up not being what some might have hoped.

Fair point, but at the end of the day he will be remembered more for what he did not do vs what he did do in terms of performance on the court. In terms of off the court, he will be remembered as a kid with a destructive ego, inflated sense of self worth, and borderline embarrassment to the program. The UNC fans already have turned on him.

Notice too, that most of the "magic", was accomplished in the 2nd half of his freshman season, and there is a "but" that can be inserted after almost every one of the accomplishments. One example is the Rookie Of The Year you reference. "Barnes was the ACC ROY! Yes, but that is only because the Irving kid at Duke went down with an injury"

The buzzer beating 3's to steal wins all came as a freshman. The 40 point game against Clemson in the ACC semi's was supposed to be the turning point and the first of many dominant performances as a Sophomore, on the way to achieving first team All America, National Player of The Year, and MVP in championship games. Instead, the achievements were a 1st Team All-ACC selection that many feel was undeserved, a Regular Season title squeaked out by one game, arguably achieved by only having to play FSU once, and a 3rd Team selection on one of the lesser known All America teams. No tourney championships, no Final Fours, no AP All American selection, and not a sniff of National Player of the year.

Even with all that, the biggest disappointment I hear from local UNC fans, was his inability to put the team on his back after Kendall went down, and lead the team to the Final Four. His performance against the 11 Seeded Ohio team in the Sweet 16 that arguably should have been a loss, was the final nail in the coffin for most local Heel fans. That performance left them with the correct assumption that if he could not do it against Ohio, there was no chance of it happening against Kansas.

The off court antics and ego greatly hurt, and formed the lasting impression most will remember about Harrison Barnes the college player, for both UNC and non-UNC fans alike, but the on court performance when the team faced adversity and desperately needed a hero, sealed the fate for how he will be remembered on the court by most fans. Whether that's fair or not is debatable. What's not debatable is that by declaring for the draft, Barnes will never get another opportunity to change how he will be remembered as a collegiate player.

[moonpie23]

One example is the Rookie Of The Year you reference. "Barnes was the ACC ROY! Yes, but that is only because the Irving kid at Duke went down with an injury"

.

this is so freaking true that it yelled at me with a megaphone when i walked by the computer...

[subzero02]

Me thinks Irving will be collecting a rookie of the year award in the not so distant future...

[oldnavy]

Roy is so full of it to say something like he would have cut down the nets at Cameron.

Remember, this is the guy who basically could not get off the floor fast enough at FSU because he was worried about his players getting hurt by a "happy crowd" of fans celebrating a win.

So now he wants the world to believe that he would be willing to rub it in the face of 9000+ angry fans? Who does this guy think he is fooling. He talks a great game about how tough he is and what a mountain man he is, but when he had an opportunity to face a so called "dangerous" situation where he and his kids would just basically need to stand aside and get out of the way of a celebratory crowd he ran like a little girl, ensuring HE was the first off the court.

Now he expects us to believe that he would have the balls to take the Cameron floor and cut down our nets??? I'm throwing the BIG BS flag on that one.

He got Harrison Jordan Barnes to go to UNC.... WHAT A MAJOR recruiting coup! "The dude" was named after MJ and was never going to go anywhere else but UNC according to his own accounts.... so why did it take you 11 trips to Ames to make it happen?? Your time may have been better spent in Indiana on Cody Zeller.

Now you need it to sound like you beat K out in this recruitment battle?? It was a set up the whole time. Even HB admits to that. But even with the fix in it sounds like you were so unsure of yourself that it took you 11 trips to convince yourself of what was already in the bag.... can you say inferiority complex? Sounds like despite the predetermined outcome, K had you a little worried... huh?

Roy is perfect in everyway and is the toughest man on the planet earth. He is a mountain man (who also gets pedicures and massage therapy), so NEVER EVER question him on anything.... just tell him how wonderful and scary he is.

[oldnavy]

Curious. . . Do you honestly think that landing the ACC Rookie of the Year, who won countless games for Carolina in his two years (Miami, Clemson and FSU his freshman year and big time shots against Wisconsin and others this year) was not worth it? I get that Duke fans are bitter about the way that Barnes chose his school but any rational fan has to admit that the kid played well for Carolina even if you think he ended up not being what some might have hoped.

First I would agrue that the ROY award was Kendall Marshall's, except for the fact that the media has way too much invested in HB to give it to anyone else. And anyone that is a tiny bit objective would realize that KM was the best freshman that year (given Irvings' injury).

Second, yes the kid played well. So did did Serge Zwikker when he was there (ok, a little ridiculous I admit, but lots of players have played well for UNC and not been elevated to cult status).

[weezie]

Hahaha, such a silly little old man is that roy.
Sittin' up thar on his porch wit' his trusty raccoon huntin' hound, chewin' a length of strawgrass....

Blowhard nincompoop.

[Reilly]

Roy is so full of it to say something like he would have cut down the nets at Cameron.

Remember, this is the guy who basically could not get off the floor fast enough at FSU because he was worried about his players getting hurt by a "happy crowd" of fans celebrating a win. ....

There needs to be some sort of Roy Threat Matrix.

Bitter rival feeling oats, doing provocative, unnecessary, celebratory net-cutting action in hostile arena =
PRETTY GOOD IDEA ... EXPLORE DOING

FSU co-eds smiling and dancing on court =
MODERATE DANGER ... WOMEN/CHILDREN TAKE COVER ... ONLY BLUE STEEL ALLOWED ACCESS TO AREA

Solitary, non-cussing Presbyterian fan saying "miss it", surrounded by 20,000 Tar Heels Fans =
EXTREME DANGER .... CALL SECURITY

[miramar]

(JANUARY 17, 2012 CHAPEL HILL, N.C.) Details have emerged about a cell phone call made to University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill head men’s basketball coach Roy Williams soon after the Tar Heels lost in Tallahassee Saturday...

link (https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/hartsell/www/Sunk.htm)

That sounds like Captain Schettino's conversation as he abandoned the Costa Condordia.

Wait a minute, maybe Schettino can get the assistant coach position since deep down he seems to be a Carolina guy. If nothing else, he can stand on the sidelines in a life preserver next to a tall blonde and shout "Forza Carolina del Nord!"

[gethlives]

Fair point, but at the end of the day he will be remembered more for what he did not do vs what he did do in terms of performance on the court. In terms of off the court, he will be remembered as a kid with a destructive ego, inflated sense of self worth, and borderline embarrassment to the program. The UNC fans already have turned on him.

.

I agree that many Carolina fans have turned on Barnes, a fact that this Carolina fan finds incredibly disappointing. In the mind of this Carolina fan, Harrison Barnes was an incredibly hard working, well-spoken, nice kid (he was wonderful at a clinic I took my son too earlier in the year) who happened also to be a great basketball player. He represented the program with class and I know will continue to do so for years in the NBA. An embarrassment to the program? I'd take many more Harrison Barnes to come through Chapel Hill. Should he have been named first team all ACC ahead of Kendall--no. Was he obviously #6 yes.

I know we live in a black and white world where if you aren't amazing you suck, but the attitude to Barnes has gotten out of hand. Yes he had an awful two final games. JJ Reddick shot, I believe about 30% in his final two tournament losses--doesn't mean he wasn't one of Duke's best players of all time.

Also, note that vitriol coming to Barnes from Duke fans is fine--your biggest rival should have nothing but disdain for players who wear opposing uniforms. I find the attitude of Carolina fans towards him disgusting, as I'm sure a lot of you found attitudes of your fellow fans towards people like Shavlik Randolph who were considered disappointing or people like Will Avery who left before they were deemed ready.

[moonpie23]

yes he had an awful two final games. JJ Reddick shot, I believe about 30% in his final two tournament losses--doesn't mean he wasn't one of Duke's best players of all time.


whoa. did u just compare the fallen pigeon to JJ freaking redick?

[Olympic Fan]

Let's see ... JJ Redick was a two-time concensus first-team All-American, the consensus national player of the year as a senior. He was two-time ACC player of the year and played on one Final Four team and three ACC championship teams (twice, he was Tournament MVP and should have been a third time). The Black Falcon was never a first-team All-American, never a blip on the national player of the year radar, never a candidate for ACC POY and never played in the Final Four or on an ACC championship team.

And, oh yes, Redick was 6-3 against his biggest rival ... Barnes was 2-3 against Duke.

Yeah, I can see why a Carolina fan would like to link the two of them ...

[Sir Stealth]

I agree that many Carolina fans have turned on Barnes, a fact that this Carolina fan finds incredibly disappointing. In the mind of this Carolina fan, Harrison Barnes was an incredibly hard working, well-spoken, nice kid (he was wonderful at a clinic I took my son too earlier in the year) who happened also to be a great basketball player. He represented the program with class and I know will continue to do so for years in the NBA. An embarrassment to the program? I'd take many more Harrison Barnes to come through Chapel Hill. Should he have been named first team all ACC ahead of Kendall--no. Was he obviously #6 yes.

I know we live in a black and white world where if you aren't amazing you suck, but the attitude to Barnes has gotten out of hand. Yes he had an awful two final games. JJ Reddick shot, I believe about 30% in his final two tournament losses--doesn't mean he wasn't one of Duke's best players of all time.

Also, note that vitriol coming to Barnes from Duke fans is fine--your biggest rival should have nothing but disdain for players who wear opposing uniforms. I find the attitude of Carolina fans towards him disgusting, as I'm sure a lot of you found attitudes of your fellow fans towards people like Shavlik Randolph who were considered disappointing or people like Will Avery who left before they were deemed ready.

Well said. I think that the criticism/mocking of Barnes's prematurely inflated ego and pursuit of brand is warranted, but if I was a Carolina fan I'd think that I'd defend him, because he probably is a nice enough person. Mocking the ego element has caused people to look at him as more of a basketball disappointment than he actually was, but for Duke fans it's easy to pour it on after how the recruitment went down. I definitely dislike seeing Duke fans turn on our own guys though so I appreciate you sticking up for yours.

[freedevil]

Let's see ... JJ Redick was a two-time concensus first-team All-American, the consensus national player of the year as a senior. He was two-time ACC player of the year and played on one Final Four team and three ACC championship teams (twice, he was Tournament MVP and should have been a third time). The Black Falcon was never a first-team All-American, never a blip on the national player of the year radar, never a candidate for ACC POY and never played in the Final Four or on an ACC championship team.

And, oh yes, Redick was 6-3 against his biggest rival ... Barnes was 2-3 against Duke.

Yeah, I can see why a Carolina fan would like to link the two of them ...

For the win!

[Sir Stealth]

whoa. did u just compare the fallen pigeon to JJ freaking redick?

I loathe Barnes, but I don't really think that the guy was trying to make a comparison that equated the basketball skills or careers of the two. I read it to say that Barnes's crappy end run didn't mean that he wasn't a solid basketball player most of the time, just like JJ's disappointing finish didn't mean he wasn't one of the greatest college basketball players ever.

[nolan8or]

I hope Roy made the "we thought about cutting the nets in Cameron" comment as a joke to get the crowd laughing. If he was serious, I would have loved to of seen them try that in Cameron. There would have been riots and I would have gladly joined in.

[Class of '94]

I hope Roy made the "we thought about cutting the nets in Cameron" comment as a joke to get the crowd laughing. If he was serious, I would have loved to of seen them try that in Cameron. There would have been riots and I would have gladly joined in.

In fairness to Roy and gladly not being there, I think that was most likely his intent. One may even argue that it was his intent to amuse the audience with this comments about K and Duke concerning Mason and the Zeller. That being said, imo Roy should not have made those comments in public. It just makes him look really bad. In fact, I saw comments from the CBSsports article that was linked on the front page of DBR, and even KY fans were appalled at the comments Roy said, especially in regards to contemplating the cutting down of the nets at Cameron for a regular season championship.

[gethlives]

I loathe Barnes, but I don't really think that the guy was trying to make a comparison that equated the basketball skills or careers of the two. I read it to say that Barnes's crappy end run didn't mean that he wasn't a solid basketball player most of the time, just like JJ's disappointing finish didn't mean he wasn't one of the greatest college basketball players ever.

Thank you kind sir. And to think I was beginning to doubt the reading comprehension of my darker-blue friends.

[BD80]

ELEVEN trips to Ames? Aren't there restrictions regarding recruiting contacts?

[msdukie]

Let's see ... JJ Redick was a two-time concensus first-team All-American, the consensus national player of the year as a senior. He was two-time ACC player of the year and played on one Final Four team and three ACC championship teams (twice, he was Tournament MVP and should have been a third time). The Black Falcon was never a first-team All-American, never a blip on the national player of the year radar, never a candidate for ACC POY and never played in the Final Four or on an ACC championship team.

And, oh yes, Redick was 6-3 against his biggest rival ... Barnes was 2-3 against Duke.

Yeah, I can see why a Carolina fan would like to link the two of them ...

He was actually 2 time National Player of the Year. He won the Rupp award in 2005, which is one of the 6 major NPOY awards.

[ChicagoHeel]

Let's see ... JJ Redick was a two-time concensus first-team All-American, the consensus national player of the year as a senior. He was two-time ACC player of the year and played on one Final Four team and three ACC championship teams (twice, he was Tournament MVP and should have been a third time). The Black Falcon was never a first-team All-American, never a blip on the national player of the year radar, never a candidate for ACC POY and never played in the Final Four or on an ACC championship team.

And, oh yes, Redick was 6-3 against his biggest rival ... Barnes was 2-3 against Duke.

Yeah, I can see why a Carolina fan would like to link the two of them ...

Redick shot 4-12, 4-14, and 3-18 in the last game of his sophomore through senior years, each of which was a number 1 seed Duke losing to a higher seed. He averaged almost 27 points a game his senior year and scored 11 in his final game. Gethlives' point is that, just as most Duke fans do not define Redick by his sub-par performances in those games, most UNC fans do not define Barnes simply as the guy who couldn't get it done when Marshall went down.


Fair point, but at the end of the day he will be remembered more for what he did not do vs what he did do in terms of performance on the court. In terms of off the court, he will be remembered as a kid with a destructive ego, inflated sense of self worth, and borderline embarrassment to the program. The UNC fans already have turned on him.

I'd say Newton accurately describes how Barnes' will be remembered.. on Duke message boards. Yes, some UNC fans, myself included, find Barnes' open discussion of his brand off-putting. I wish a parent or older relative would step in and talk a little sense into him. And, yes, a distaste about his brand talk combined with disappointment about the way the season turned out has led a few too many UNC fans' to direct undue ire toward Barnes. But to say that he will be remembered as a borderline embarrassment to the program? Please. The vast majority of UNC fans respect Barnes for a variety of reasons including his accomplishments and conduct on the court, decision to return when he was clearly a lottery pick, and the fact that he was by all accounts a good teammate- both when he was struggling and tearing it up. If you want a summary of a UNC fan's perspective, here: we wish this season had turned out differently, but we're glad Barnes is a part of the UNC family and wish him well in the NBA.

[gumbomoop]

Mocking the ego element has caused people to look at him as more of a basketball disappointment than he actually was....

It seems obvious - but maybe isn't, so let me know - that Barnes was in fact something of a disappointment as a player, for reasons noted by several posters in this thread. Whether he was a big disappointment is debatable. I think he was, and am happy that he was, as that was a factor in the Heels' failure to get to the FF in either of his 2 years in CH.

One weird question: Did someone post earlier today [Friday morn, I guess] some quotations from Roy Williams on what kind of player Barnes would be in the NBA? If this question seems strange, well, what do you expect? Perhaps, or probably, I'm hallucinating, but I swear somewhere today I've read such comments, which, in the event, were not entirely flattering. So I'm wondering whether an earlier post was removed, maybe for including info from a pay site, or even for making up stuff.

So, some kindly mod, please respond by choosing either:
(a) Yes, there was such a post, and we removed it.
(b) You're hallucinating.

[Class of '94]

Redick shot 4-12, 4-14, and 3-18 in the last game of his sophomore through senior years, each of which was a number 1 seed Duke losing to a higher seed. He averaged almost 27 points a game his senior year and scored 11 in his final game. Gethlives' point is that, just as most Duke fans do not define Redick by his sub-par performances in those games, most UNC fans do not define Barnes simply as the guy who couldn't get it done when Marshall went down.



I'd say Newton accurately describes how Barnes' will be remembered.. on Duke message boards. Yes, some UNC fans, myself included, find Barnes' open discussion of his brand off-putting. I wish a parent or older relative would step in and talk a little sense into him. And, yes, a distaste about his brand talk combined with disappointment about the way the season turned out has led a few too many UNC fans' to direct undue ire toward Barnes. But to say that he will be remembered as a borderline embarrassment to the program? Please. The vast majority of UNC fans respect Barnes for a variety of reasons including his accomplishments and conduct on the court, decision to return when he was clearly a lottery pick, and the fact that he was by all accounts a good teammate- both when he was struggling and tearing it up. If you want a summary of a UNC fan's perspective, here: we wish this season had turned out differently, but we're glad Barnes is a part of the UNC family and wish him well in the NBA.

I'm by no means an expert in the area of what Carolina fans are thinking......but I would bet that you are a minority when it comes to the opinion of "local" [Triangle] fans in regards to how they feel about HB. I do believe a majority of local UNC fans have negative feelings about HB in terms of not fully living up to the hype and potential. Afterall, he was the one that said he wanted to leave a legacy at Carolina; and didn't do that. And regardless of how Barnes will be viewed on Duke message boards, the fact remains that couldn't/didn't step up when the UNC team needed him most; and as Pro scouts have pointed out, he needs a good PG to set him up properly to be effective. That being said, I wish him the best in the NBA and future endeavors.

Now, Roy on the otherhand....That's a different story.:D

[oldnavy]

I agree that many Carolina fans have turned on Barnes, a fact that this Carolina fan finds incredibly disappointing. In the mind of this Carolina fan, Harrison Barnes was an incredibly hard working, well-spoken, nice kid (he was wonderful at a clinic I took my son too earlier in the year) who happened also to be a great basketball player. He represented the program with class and I know will continue to do so for years in the NBA. An embarrassment to the program? I'd take many more Harrison Barnes to come through Chapel Hill. Should he have been named first team all ACC ahead of Kendall--no. Was he obviously #6 yes.

I know we live in a black and white world where if you aren't amazing you suck, but the attitude to Barnes has gotten out of hand. Yes he had an awful two final games. JJ Reddick shot, I believe about 30% in his final two tournament losses--doesn't mean he wasn't one of Duke's best players of all time.

Also, note that vitriol coming to Barnes from Duke fans is fine--your biggest rival should have nothing but disdain for players who wear opposing uniforms. I find the attitude of Carolina fans towards him disgusting, as I'm sure a lot of you found attitudes of your fellow fans towards people like Shavlik Randolph who were considered disappointing or people like Will Avery who left before they were deemed ready.

First bolded part, simply not true. There is no evidence that HB was an incredibly hard worker on his game. If he was we would have expected to see improvement. There was no improvement in his two years, so why assume that he worked hard? Because Roy said he worked hard?

Second bolded parth, not true some players are good to average. In fact most are. Barnes did not suck except in relation to the expectations the media and he created for himself. He was sold as the best freshman to ever play the game before taking a shot (only preseason Frosh AA) and he seemed more concerned about his image than his actual play based on a call to Jeff Goodman.

Barnes did not suck. He was a good to better than average player with multiple flaws in his game that did not improve over two years in the UNC system under Roy. The vitriol is if that is what it is push back due to the amount of manure that has been shoveled our way about the Ames Iowa savior.

Glad he is gone and I suspect will never be heard from again.... another NBA 5 minute a game man....

[gethlives]

First bolded part, simply not true. There is no evidence that HB was an incredibly hard worker on his game. If he was we would have expected to see improvement. There was no improvement in his two years, so why assume that he worked hard? Because Roy said he worked hard?



It wasn't just Roy who said he worked hard--almost every profile of the kid had him spending hours upon hours in the gym working on his game. Obviously you and I disagree on whether that paid off on the court, but don't you think it's possible for someone to work hard and not show improvement?

I think the criticism about Harrison goes to what the really excellent Tar Heel Blog said in summing up his career at Carolina: "He called his home run shot, and ended up hitting a double." Yes, he came in saying he was going to win a championship and be a national player of the year and yes he fell short, but that doesn't negate his very real accomplishments.

[miramar]

I think the criticism about Harrison goes to what the really excellent Tar Heel Blog said in summing up his career at Carolina: "He called his home run shot, and ended up hitting a double." Yes, he came in saying he was going to win a championship and be a national player of the year and yes he fell short, but that doesn't negate his very real accomplishments.

However, a guy who expects to be POY as a freshman and admits as much to a sportswriter isn't just calling a homer, he's practically calling a walk off grand slam in the World Series. Nevertheless, he scored 17 PPG IIRC, so that's probably the equivalent of a very respectable double.

[Duvall]

However, a guy who expects to be POY as a freshman and admits as much to a sportswriter isn't just calling a homer, he's practically calling a walk off grand slam in the World Series. Nevertheless, he scored 17 PPG IIRC, so that's probably the equivalent of a very respectable double.

Still a pretty generous assessment for a one-dimensional volume jump shooter that didn't come close to breaking 40% 3FG in either of his two years. Let's call it a sharp single up the middle and be done with it.

[slower]

Still a pretty generous assessment for a one-dimensional volume jump shooter that didn't come close to breaking 40% 3FG in either of his two years. Let's call it a sharp single up the middle and be done with it.

Or maybe a sharp single that was reported as a double by lazy sportwriters (and was regarded as a screaming liner that just missed clearing the fence by gethlives and other disciples of the toilet-water blue).

[Newton_14]

Redick shot 4-12, 4-14, and 3-18 in the last game of his sophomore through senior years, each of which was a number 1 seed Duke losing to a higher seed. He averaged almost 27 points a game his senior year and scored 11 in his final game. Gethlives' point is that, just as most Duke fans do not define Redick by his sub-par performances in those games, most UNC fans do not define Barnes simply as the guy who couldn't get it done when Marshall went down.



I'd say Newton accurately describes how Barnes' will be remembered.. on Duke message boards. Yes, some UNC fans, myself included, find Barnes' open discussion of his brand off-putting. I wish a parent or older relative would step in and talk a little sense into him. And, yes, a distaste about his brand talk combined with disappointment about the way the season turned out has led a few too many UNC fans' to direct undue ire toward Barnes. But to say that he will be remembered as a borderline embarrassment to the program? Please. The vast majority of UNC fans respect Barnes for a variety of reasons including his accomplishments and conduct on the court, decision to return when he was clearly a lottery pick, and the fact that he was by all accounts a good teammate- both when he was struggling and tearing it up. If you want a summary of a UNC fan's perspective, here: we wish this season had turned out differently, but we're glad Barnes is a part of the UNC family and wish him well in the NBA.

Just to clarify, "borderline embarrassment" was a bit of hyperbole, but was 100% in reference to his off court antics, not his on court play. He was a good college player. Just not close to what he and everyone else expected. I do think the stats over the 2 years with and without Kendall are telling though. Skype hype and spurning Duke aside, I honestly thought the guy was going to be a dominant player that would challenge for NPOY. Why that did not happen is in fact puzzling. I don't get it to be quite honest.

One of the more mysterious players to come along in this era.

[moonpie23]

i often wonder what he thinks about his dream school now? i don't think that flight can leave rdu quickly enough...


legacy? look at my avatar.....THAT's his legacy....

[oldnavy]

It wasn't just Roy who said he worked hard--almost every profile of the kid had him spending hours upon hours in the gym working on his game. Obviously you and I disagree on whether that paid off on the court, but don't you think it's possible for someone to work hard and not show improvement?

I think the criticism about Harrison goes to what the really excellent Tar Heel Blog said in summing up his career at Carolina: "He called his home run shot, and ended up hitting a double." Yes, he came in saying he was going to win a championship and be a national player of the year and yes he fell short, but that doesn't negate his very real accomplishments.

Not when it is reported that he has an unlimited upside and potential. Somethng is amiss. He is either not talented enough, or he is practicing incorrectlyl. Remember, only perfect practive make perfect.

If he spent hours and hour working on his handle, then he wasted his time. If he spent hours and hours on driving to the lane, he wasted his time. If he spent hours and hours on passing the ball, he wasted his time, if he spent hours and hours on rebounding he wasted his time... Sophmore Barnes without KM was no better than freshman Barnes with KM, So he should have spent more time one idsigning a logo or line of clothing gear.... because his game did not improve noticably....

[oldnavy]

I apologise for the multiple typo's in the previous post (had a long day and my back was killing me). Bottomline of what I was trying to say was that spending hours in a gym is not the same as "working on your game". I have know lots of gym rats that just play pick up games and 21, etc... for hours and hours every day that never really improve. I would not say that they are working on their games, I would say they are killing time in the gym....

I do not know this, but given the paultry improvement made by Barnes over his two years, he may have just been killing time in the gym... I may be wrong, but if he put the work in (and by work I mean specific dedicated drills on ball handling, low post moves, rebounding) that Ol Roy lead us to believe when he said that HB was the hardest working kid he had seen (paraphrase), then he must have pegged his talent meter in high school. Or could it be that UNC just cannot develope wing players???

[luvdahops]

Not when it is reported that he has an unlimited upside and potential. Somethng is amiss. He is either not talented enough, or he is practicing incorrectlyl. Remember, only perfect practive make perfect.

If he spent hours and hour working on his handle, then he wasted his time. If he spent hours and hours on driving to the lane, he wasted his time. If he spent hours and hours on passing the ball, he wasted his time, if he spent hours and hours on rebounding he wasted his time... Sophmore Barnes without KM was no better than freshman Barnes with KM, So he should have spent more time one idsigning a logo or line of clothing gear.... because his game did not improve noticably....

I don't think anyone views Barnes as having unlimited upside and potential anymore. General view is that he is a good but not great athlete who lacks the quickness and explosiveness to be dominant, even at the college level, but is a top tier shooter, especially for his size. From an NBA standpoint, he is seen as someone with a fairly low ceiling, but also limited downside - you know what you are getting, and it is a skill set that is immediately useful for many teams, which is not the case with a lot of other top prospects.

In hindsight, it seems very odd to me that HB was ever viewed as having such a high ceiling. The fact that he is not a great athlete, especially in terms of quickness, was obvious to me from the first time I saw him play, yet the ESPN, etc. party line remained "potential next Kobe" well past the time it was obvious that would never be the case.

[roywhite]

I don't think anyone views Barnes as having unlimited upside and potential anymore. General view is that he is a good but not great athlete who lacks the quickness and explosiveness to be dominant, even at the college level, but is a top tier shooter, especially for his size. From an NBA standpoint, he is seen as someone with a fairly low ceiling, but also limited downside - you know what you are getting, and it is a skill set that is immediately useful for many teams, which is not the case with a lot of other top prospects.

In hindsight, it seems very odd to me that HB was ever viewed as having such a high ceiling. The fact that he is not a great athlete, especially in terms of quickness, was obvious to me from the first time I saw him play, yet the ESPN, etc. party line remained "potential next Kobe" well past the time it was obvious that would never be the case.

Now, remind me....what tells us Barnes is really a top tier shooter?

Is it his 44% FG accuracy this season?
Or is it his 35.8% accuracy from 3-pt distance?
Or maybe that he likes to shoot and has a high release point on his jumpshot?

[Jderf]

Or could it be that UNC just cannot develope wing players???

Can we please, please start this meme?


In hindsight, it seems very odd to me that HB was ever viewed as having such a high ceiling. The fact that he is not a great athlete, especially in terms of quickness, was obvious to me from the first time I saw him play, yet the ESPN, etc. party line remained "potential next Kobe" well past the time it was obvious that would never be the case.

I've started thinking of him as basically a Wayne Ellington clone, but with excellent size/strength. Maybe Barnes dunks a bit more often and adds maybe one more rebound per game, but otherwise, I can't really think of what exactly differentiates the two players.

... except for a championship, that is. :D

[luvdahops]

Now, remind me....what tells us Barnes is really a top tier shooter?

Is it his 44% FG accuracy this season?
Or is it his 35.8% accuracy from 3-pt distance?
Or maybe that he likes to shoot and has a high release point on his jumpshot?

Finding myself in the odd position of defending Barnes. It is not a comfortable place to be. I think I'm getting a rash.

Shot selection and frequency can skew shooting percentages. Keep in mind that JJ shot just over 40% from 3 and 43% overall for his career. I don't think anyone doubted he was a great shooter.

With Barnes, my (admittedly unscientific) sense is that his % was a lot higher on straight catch and shoot opportunities, and on step back jumpers and pullups after 1 or 2 dribbles. It was when he tried to force the action beyond these types of opportunities that his percentage plummeted. And his stroke on those specific types of shots was often sweet and deadly accurate, and many scouts seem to think that will translate fairly well to the NBA, at least in the right situation (e.g. good PG, post players who require doubling/constant attention).

[devildeac]

I apologise for the multiple typo's in the previous post (had a long day and my back was killing me). Bottomline of what I was trying to say was that spending hours in a gym is not the same as "working on your game". I have know lots of gym rats that just play pick up games and 21, etc... for hours and hours every day that never really improve. I would not say that they are working on their games, I would say they are killing time in the gym....

I do not know this, but given the paultry improvement made by Barnes over his two years, he may have just been killing time in the gym... I may be wrong, but if he put the work in (and by work I mean specific dedicated drills on ball handling, low post moves, rebounding) that Ol Roy lead us to believe when he said that HB was the hardest working kid he had seen (paraphrase), then he must have pegged his talent meter in high school. Or could it be that UNC just cannot develope wing players???

Considering our nickname for him, would it have been more accurate if you had referred to "the POULTRY improvement made..."

(Yes, it would be a stretch, but I looked it up and the definition of poultry could apply here. I know someone might cry fowl but see "squab".)

[BD80]

Considering our nickname for him, would it have been more accurate if you had referred to "the POULTRY improvement made..."

(Yes, it would be a stretch, but I looked it up and the definition of poultry could apply here. I know someone might cry fowl but see "squab".)

I wouldn't squab-ble over such nominclature, but it does seem you are trying to pigeon-hole the poor chap.

[Duvall]

Finding myself in the odd position of defending Barnes. It is not a comfortable place to be. I think I'm getting a rash.

Shot selection and frequency can skew shooting percentages. Keep in mind that JJ shot just over 40% from 3 and 43% overall for his career. I don't think anyone doubted he was a great shooter.

Missing shots also skews your shooting percentages. Redick was considered a better shooter than Barnes because he shot better than Barnes, both in their respective sophomore seasons (http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=harrison-barnes&i=1&jj-redick=2003-2004&p1=jj-redick) and in the years in which they were considered worthy of lottery picks. (http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=harrison-barnes&i=1&jj-redick=2005-2006&p1=jj-redick) Even if you look at eFG%, Barnes just isn't that great.

[luvdahops]

Missing shots also skews your shooting percentages. Redick was considered a better shooter than Barnes because he shot better than Barnes, both in their respective sophomore seasons (http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=harrison-barnes&i=1&jj-redick=2003-2004&p1=jj-redick) and in the years in which they were considered worthy of lottery picks. (http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=harrison-barnes&i=1&jj-redick=2005-2006&p1=jj-redick) Even if you look at eFG%, Barnes just isn't that great.

Interesting stuff. And shame on me if I implied that Barnes was as good a shooter as JJ. My intention in pointing to JJ was to illustrate some of the limitations in looking purely at percentages in evaluating shooting ability.

I personally think Barnes is still overrated as Top 10 pick (most mock drafts seem to have him at #6 or #7 now), and lean more toward Steve Kerr's perspective (which I summarized in a post a few weeks back), which is more like Top 15 and even then dependent on fit. I would not be at all surprised to Henson and perhaps Zeller and/or Marshall to be picked ahead of him. I am not a big fan of Henson, and his draft position is also seems somewhat fit dependent, but his ceiling is far higher than that of HB, and he has improved notably each year.

[JStuart]

Missing shots also skews your shooting percentages. Redick was considered a better shooter than Barnes because he shot better than Barnes, both in their respective sophomore seasons (http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=harrison-barnes&i=1&jj-redick=2003-2004&p1=jj-redick) and in the years in which they were considered worthy of lottery picks. (http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=harrison-barnes&i=1&jj-redick=2005-2006&p1=jj-redick) Even if you look at eFG%, Barnes just isn't that great.

But, but, if he just made one more shot per game! Then, he would be as good as everyone wanted him to be. Just ask Jay B.

[oldnavy]

Interesting stuff. And shame on me if I implied that Barnes was as good a shooter as JJ. My intention in pointing to JJ was to illustrate some of the limitations in looking purely at percentages in evaluating shooting ability.

I personally think Barnes is still overrated as Top 10 pick (most mock drafts seem to have him at #6 or #7 now), and lean more toward Steve Kerr's perspective (which I summarized in a post a few weeks back), which is more like Top 15 and even then dependent on fit. I would not be at all surprised to Henson and perhaps Zeller and/or Marshall to be picked ahead of him. I am not a big fan of Henson, and his draft position is also seems somewhat fit dependent, but his ceiling is far higher than that of HB, and he has improved notably each year.

JJ developed into much more than a spot up shooter over his career. JJ was a much better shooter than Barnes if for no other reason than how hard JJ worked to get his shot off. Go back and watch some film of JJ running around the court being held and bumped by his defenders. Then watch some film of Barnes and you will basically see a guy that stands on the perimeter and waits for Marshall to lure a defender away from him and then hit him with a great pass, OR you see Barnes take a dribble or two and then step back to hit a jump shot. Much easier shots to hit than curling off screens with guys hanging on you.

Why are we even having this discussion comparing JJ and Barnes as shooters?? What are we going to compare next, Rembrant and refridgerator art?

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

Since we're all agreed that UNC's system cannot develop wing players, it raises an interesting question. Had Barnes not skyped Roy, but instead chosen Duke, could he have developed into a Singler, Dunleavy type player or perhaps had an even better career?

[Class of '94]

Since we're all agreed that UNC's system cannot develop wing players, it raises an interesting question. Had Barnes not skyped Roy, but instead chosen Duke, could he have developed into a Singler, Dunleavy type player or perhaps had an even better career?

To be fair (and I can't believe I'm defending Roy and Carolina, couldn't one make the argument that Danny Green developed as a wing over 4 years in Carolina's system and has become a decent NBA pro with the Spurs?

As far as Barnes is concerned, I'm not so sure now that he would've developed better at Duke because it appears he needs a quality PG to really excell; and without a healthy Kyrie or Quinn Cook feeding him the ball in the right spots, he might not look that much different in a Duke uhiform as he did in a UNC form with no KM.

[Reilly]

... What are we going to compare next, Rembrant and refridgerator art?

"Black Pigeons Playing Poker" (on velvet)

[Jderf]

Since we're all agreed that UNC's system cannot develop wing players, it raises an interesting question. Had Barnes not skyped Roy, but instead chosen Duke, could he have developed into a Singler, Dunleavy type player or perhaps had an even better career?

I'd say that's almost a certainty. Think about it, how many wing players has Roy put in the NBA? I bet you couldn't find more than five. Clearly UNC just isn't the place to go if you play on the wing. Who is (and how tall is) their Swingman Coach? They don't even have one!? Just solidifies what we already knew (and what people have been saying for years): UNC just doesn't develop wings.

Clearly, HB made a mistake by not accepting K's tutelage.

[Jderf]

To be fair (and I can't believe I'm defending Roy and Carolina, couldn't one make the argument that Danny Green developed as a wing over 4 years in Carolina's system and has become a decent NBA pro with the Spurs?

But if you only have one decent example, doesn't that just prove the point? Plus, that was just sooooo long ago. Can you show me anybody more recent?

[BD80]

To be fair (and I can't believe I'm defending Roy and Carolina, couldn't one make the argument that Danny Green developed as a wing over 4 years in Carolina's system and has become a decent NBA pro with the Spurs? ...

Danny was so well coached in college that he exploded for 81 points in his first two NBA seasons
- total.
ol roy must have spent some time with danny on his dance moves, that coaching shined through.

[Class of '94]

But if you only have one decent example, doesn't that just prove the point? Plus, that was just sooooo long ago. Can you show me anybody more recent?

Eventhough he's not a UNC player, I would also say Paul Pierce comes to mind since Roy did coach him and I believe Kansas played the same system when Roy was the HC there as Carolina plays now.

That said. you're right in that 1 or 2 wing players at best (and I can't think of any more recent examples) tends to support the idea that UNC's system does not develop and produce wing players. That said, it will be interesting to watch the development (or lack thereof) of PJ and Reggie Bullock as well as possibl;y McAdoo (who I remember saying as a High School player that Roy and his parents envisioned him being a 3 in the NBA and that Roy would develop him with that mind. Of course Roy made similar promises to Henson and his family and the tryout at the 3 didn't work out). Bullock and Hairston could end up being more in the mold of Wayne Ellington than a Paul Pierce; but we'll see.

[Class of '94]

Danny was so well coached in college that he exploded for 81 points in his first two NBA seasons
- total.
ol roy must have spent some time with danny on his dance moves, that coaching shined through.

LOL!!! All very good points about Danny Green; and thanks for pointin them out. Again, I'm no Carolina or Roy Williams fan by any stretch of the imagination; but I just wanted to be fair since there are many who perceive Duke as having similar problems developing big men (although there are way more examples to the contrary in regards to Duke than there are for Roy's UNC/Kansas programs). But in all honesty, I can't think of that many wing players that have developed in his system and gone on to becoming decent to good (at least) NBA players.

[Dev11]

LOL!!! All very good points about Danny Green; and thanks for pointin them out. Again, I'm no Carolina or Roy Williams fan by any stretch of the imagination; but I just wanted to be fair since there are many who perceive Duke as having similar problems developing big men (although there are way more examples to the contrary in regards to Duke than there are for Roy's UNC/Kansas programs). But in all honesty, I can't think of that many wing players that have developed in his system and gone on to becoming decent to good (at least) NBA players.

If anybody can, with a straight face, use Danny Green to support an argument that Roy develops wings, then the same person has to admit that Lance Thomas is a good recent example of Coach K developing bigs.

[Class of '94]

If anybody can, with a straight face, use Danny Green to support an argument that Roy develops wings, then the same person has to admit that Lance Thomas is a good recent example of Coach K developing bigs.

Again, I just wanted to be fair to Roy and UNC. ;) You're right in that if Danny Green is used to support Roy, Lance is a good example to support K although I don't view Lance as a "big"; but rather more of a wing player who guarded 4s and 3s in college. But I get your point.

[NashvilleDevil]

Roy has hired Hubert Davis to replace the departing Jerrod Haase. Does this mean Jay replaces him on gameday?

[1 24 90]

Roy has hired Hubert Davis to replace the departing Jerrod Haase. Does this mean Jay replaces him on gameday?

It took me awhile to realize you must mean Jay Williams (I still call him Jason) and not Jay Bilas. Could the panel handle having 2 Dukies on it?

[weezie]

Redick was considered a better shooter than Barnes because he shot better than Barnes.

Period, over and out. Come on, we're metering barnes vs. the best pure shooter in ACC lore?
Who gives a toot what Barnes ever did or will do? Let's focus people.

[weezie]

Roy has hired Hubert Davis to replace the departing Jerrod Haase. Does this mean Jay replaces him on gameday?

Holy cow, poor Hubert. Why the h-e-double sticks does he need that aggravation?

[roywhite]

Holy cow, poor Hubert. Why the h-e-double sticks does he need that aggravation?

Yeah, really. I actually like Hubert; pretty sharp guy who has a sense of humor and likes to laugh.

For Hubert's sake, I hope he doesn't burst into laughter at some inopportune moment, like when Ole Roy is on a tirade or some self-pitying rant.

[Indoor66]

Yeah, really. I actually like Hubert; pretty sharp guy who has a sense of humor and likes to laugh.

For Hubert's sake, I hope he doesn't burst into laughter at some inopportune moment, like when Ole Roy is on a tirade or some self-pitying rant.

Hubert is where he belongs. He is way too much a homer to be on a TV commentary show. May he RIP at the dump on the hump.

[devildeac]

Holy cow, poor Hubert. Why the h-e-double sticks does he need that aggravation?

Gotta be a better gig than working with Vitale and/or Digger:rolleyes:.

[weezie]

Hubert is where he belongs. He is way too much a homer to be on a TV commentary show. May he RIP at the dump on the hump.

Well, ok, but I thought he was not one of the most unwashed when it came to Duke. Seemed not quite the worst ever, but if you say so...I'd follow my Indoor66 Captain before any spawn of the ugh blue.
But still, I'd prefer the commentary gig, with the cash, seats and travel accommodations over the eye-bleed boring stadium wimpy blue.

[roywhite]

Well, ok, but I thought he was not one of the most unwashed when it came to Duke. Seemed not quite the worst ever, but if you say so...I'd follow my Indoor66 Captain before any spawn of the ugh blue.
But still, I'd prefer the commentary gig, with the cash, seats and travel accommodations over the eye-bleed boring stadium wimpy blue.

Yep, Hubert is now back on the whine...errr, wine and cheese circuit.

Doesn't seem appealing, but appears to be a voluntary confinement.

Does the Worldwide Leader now seek out another Tarheel for the commentary gig? Not easy finding one who can deliver some reasonable observations and avoid moments of light blue rapture.

[OldPhiKap]

Gotta be a better gig than working with Vitale and/or Digger:rolleyes:.

As much of a freak as Roy is, can you imagine having to work with Digger every day?!? Better double my meds, Doc, it's gonna be a bumpy ride . . . .

[Bojangles4Eva]

It took me awhile to realize you must mean Jay Williams (I still call him Jason) and not Jay Bilas. Could the panel handle having 2 Dukies on it?

I bet they would give the spot to Gottlieb before Jay (Williams).

[oldnavy]

Hubert is where he belongs. He is way too much a homer to be on a TV commentary show. May he RIP at the dump on the hump.

So true. I used to get so mad at how he would unadbashedly pull for the heels, while Jay W. and Jay B. would go out of their way not to be homers to the point I think they actually distanced themselves at times from Duke.

As far as the front cover story saying this is a very smart move by Roy, ehhh. Maybe, and only because he is a UNC guy. When you look down the bench you sure don't see many UNC guys there now.

As far as him being able to add something to UNC's ability to recruit, and the clear point to the statement was that he would reach a demographic that Ol Roy does not or can not is a little far fetched to me. For one, Hubert Davis is not from the "inner city" so "street cred" is not going to be his strong suite. He played HS ball in Burke VA, and went to the same school as Mia Hamm. The median household income reported for Burke is over $113K and the population is 75% white and 5% african american.

Second, Ol Roy isn't having much difficulting in recruiting so hiring someone to help him with a problem he doesn't seem to be having is odd. The one thing I will say about Ol Roy is that he can turn on that "good ol boy act, that seems to sell well in the living room".

Hubert did seem to know what he was talking about most of the time if you could get by his sillness. He seems like a nice guy and he will probably be a decent assistant coach, but this isn't a game changing hire for UNC in my opinion. In fact it is a pretty boring and safe move.

[Jderf]

Even though he's not a UNC player, I would also say Paul Pierce comes to mind since Roy did coach him and I believe Kansas played the same system when Roy was the HC there as Carolina plays now.

Yes, but Paul Pierce played in the NCAA over a decade ago. No high school basketball player is going to remember that! And if college recruits can't remember it, then it pretty much never happened. Or so I've been told. Roy Williams simply hasn't brought in a big-time wing recruit in ages. This is why you keep hearing UNC fans complain about not being a "small forward school" along the lines of Texas (Durant) or Syracuse (Carmelo). I mean, Shabazz never even considered UNC. Seems unusual that the top recruit in the country would totally ignore one of the top programs, unless people in the know informed him of the truth: UNC is where small forwards go to die.

Look at the facts:

- No proportionally sized SF Coach
- No All-Star level SFs currently in the NBA
- A series of SFs who were total busts, culminating with Barnes
- Top incoming SF? J.P. Tokoto (ranked #68 in the RSCI, and as low as #87 by some)

No wonder Marvin Williams decided to get outta dodge after just one year. UNC just doesn't develop wing players.

[Indoor66]

Yes, but Paul Pierce played in the NCAA over a decade ago. No high school basketball player is going to remember that! And if college recruits can't remember it, then it pretty much never happened. Or so I've been told. Roy Williams simply hasn't brought in a big-time wing recruit in ages. This is why you keep hearing UNC fans complain about not being a "small forward school" along the lines of Texas (Durant) or Syracuse (Carmelo). I mean, Shabazz never even considered UNC. Seems unusual that the top recruit in the country would totally ignore one of the top programs, unless people in the know informed him of the truth: UNC is where small forwards go to die.

Look at the facts:

- No proportionally sized SF Coach
- No All-Star level SFs currently in the NBA
- A series of SFs who were total busts, culminating with Barnes
- Top incoming SF? J.P. Tokoto (ranked #68 in the RSCI, and as low as #87 by some)

No wonder Marvin Williams decided to get outta dodge after just one year. UNC just doesn't develop wing players.

You're just a hater. Probably a big meany as well. :cool:

[Jderf]

You're just a hater. Probably a big meany as well. :cool:

Haha, I hope no one is actually taking all that seriously. Or maybe I hope that they are. It's tough to choose. ;)

[niveklaen]

I think we are all overlooking the fact that Roy developed the greatest wing player of all time - MJ

[Jderf]

I think we are all overlooking the fact that Roy developed the greatest wing player of all time - MJ

Greatest NBA player of all time, you mean. He was never quite as dominant in college as he later became in the NBA. It's almost as if something was holding him back... :rolleyes:

[BD80]

Greatest NBA player of all time, you mean. He was never quite as dominant in college as he later became in the NBA. It's almost as if something was holding him back... :rolleyes:

Bill Russell. Wilt Chamberlin. Oscar Robertson.

maybe the best in recent memory.

[Dukehky]

Bill Russell. Wilt Chamberlin. Oscar Robertson.

maybe the best in recent memory.

Come on...

I'll grant you that Jordan's being named the best ACC player was atrocious, that honor belongs to David Thompson and will allow an argument for Ralph Sampson.

However, Jordan is the best basketball player of all time. I have a hard time awarding that distinction to a center because they don't have to be as skilled to be dominant. Russell and Wilt were both significantly bigger and more athletic than their peers and they did what was needed to be done in order for them and their teams to be great. The Big O was a phenomenal offensive player, but MJ was one of the best defenders of all time and I've never heard Robertson receive any of that type of accolades.

Jordan was a Heel, is a terrible front office guy, and certainly isn't going to win any "great guy" awards... The latter of that list being significantly underplayed by the media throughout his career and post-career, but to not have him at the very least in the top 2 appears to me to be a little silly. The only player that I would consider classifying as better would be Magic, but to my estimation Jordan was the best player to ever pick up a basketball, and probably will ever pick up a ball, it would take somebody really, really special to take that spot.

Especially as a Duke fan, if you take that argument outside the confines of this board, you'd be considered bitter at the least. I never got to see the three players you mentioned play, but from what I have seen and what I know of them, they are spectacular players, and Russell's 11 rings give some credence to your premise, but I respectfully disagree.


Well, that was off topic. I'm actually going to miss Hubert on Gameday, I liked seeing he and Jay go back and forth and shutting Digger out of the conversation for as long as possible. I'd love to see Jay get back on the bench, especially if he decided to hop on the Duke bench because I think that he's great.

[ncexnyc]

Bill Russell. Wilt Chamberlin. Oscar Robertson.

maybe the best in recent memory.
Some guy by the name of Kareem wasn't to shabby either and as long as we're throwing names out there how about Doctor J? Those of us who grew up watching him play as a Net will attest to just how good he was.

[Tappan Zee Devil]

Come on...

I'll grant you that Jordan's being named the best ACC player was atrocious, that honor belongs to David Thompson and will allow an argument for Ralph Sampson.

However, Jordan is the best basketball player of all time. I have a hard time awarding that distinction to a center because they don't have to be as skilled to be dominant. Russell and Wilt were both significantly bigger and more athletic than their peers and they did what was needed to be done in order for them and their teams to be great. The Big O was a phenomenal offensive player, but MJ was one of the best defenders of all time and I've never heard Robertson receive any of that type of accolades.

Jordan was a Heel, is a terrible front office guy, and certainly isn't going to win any "great guy" awards... The latter of that list being significantly underplayed by the media throughout his career and post-career, but to not have him at the very least in the top 2 appears to me to be a little silly. The only player that I would consider classifying as better would be Magic, but to my estimation Jordan was the best player to ever pick up a basketball, and probably will ever pick up a ball, it would take somebody really, really special to take that spot.

Especially as a Duke fan, if you take that argument outside the confines of this board, you'd be considered bitter at the least. I never got to see the three players you mentioned play, but from what I have seen and what I know of them, they are spectacular players, and Russell's 11 rings give some credence to your premise, but I respectfully disagree.


Well, that was off topic. I'm actually going to miss Hubert on Gameday, I liked seeing he and Jay go back and forth and shutting Digger out of the conversation for as long as possible. I'd love to see Jay get back on the bench, especially if he decided to hop on the Duke bench because I think that he's great.



I agree fully with you about David Thompson as the best ever NCAA player

But gotta disagree about Jordan
If you remember Thompson, you must have seen these other guys - Russell or Karem or Wilt (although I could not stand him) or to look at non-centers, Oscar Roberton or Jerry Lucas were comparable to or better than Jordan. Yeah, it is very debatable and Jordan is the best in the last 20-or so years, but you can't write off the others.

My personal choice for best player (not best scorer) ever is Russell. If you never saw him play, you really missed someone who really understood and knew how to play the game.

Jim

[oldnavy]

I think we are all overlooking the fact that Roy developed the greatest wing player of all time - MJ

I think this is a joke right? I mean, first Roy was an assistant coach, Dean Smith coached MJ. An even if you do want to credit Roy for coaching MJ at UNC the running joke for the last 20 plus years was that Dean (or Roy if you prefer) was the only person that could hold MJ to under 20 points a game.

Developed MJ?? How about kept him from being as good as he should have been in college? MJ wasn't developed by anyone. He was born with amazing God given talent and a unequaled competative desire to win. Those are gifts not developments. What wasn't developed was character, humility or executive skills. If what MJ had on the court could be developed, there would be a lot more MJ's.

As far as the best player ever... that is a subjective argument that no one will win so if you think he was the best then to you he was the best.... I think Pistol Pete was the best, but who am I going to convince of that?

[moonpie23]

I think Pistol Pete was the best, but who am I going to convince of that?

when the comparison is SOOOOO close, you wind up going with the guy that you LIKE the best......i loved pistol pete and i'll vote for him....however, if they had let david thompson dunk the ball, i may have greater conflict...

alcindor and bill walton are in this convo as well...

[oldnavy]

when the comparison is SOOOOO close, you wind up going with the guy that you LIKE the best......i loved pistol pete and i'll vote for him....however, if they had let david thompson dunk the ball, i may have greater conflict...

alcindor and bill walton are in this convo as well...

To be totally truthful IF I was forced to vote for the greatest college player of all time, it would be David Thompson. Not only did I get to see him play in person several times at Duke, I never saw a player who could leap like he could.

However, Pistol Pete was a scoring machine and was the most creative offensive player of all time. He would put ANY current or past player college or NBA player to shame on the offensive end of the court. Think about this for a second. He AVERAGED 44.5 ppg. UNC fans go apoplectic because HB scored 40 in one game. He is the all time NCAA leading scorer, having averaged over 1100 points a year. We celebrate players that score 1000 points in their careers now (as we should). NOW the really amazing part about this is he did it when you could not play as a Freshman so he did this in only 83 games over 3 years. He did this without the three point shot, and the next player on the all time scoring list scored 218 fewer points than Pete despite playing in 23 more games than Pete did. Plus Pete averaged 5 assists per game as well. Probably the greatest player that hardly anyone talks about.