PDA

View Full Version : Lewis v. Asack



jmb
07-21-2007, 03:44 PM
Last reports I read indicated that Zack Asack was planning on returning this year. Any news on which of our most recent freshman starters will be running the show this year? Hopefully one of them distinguishes himself, I can't stand time-sharing arrangements, and they flat-out have failed for us in the past.

jimsumner
07-21-2007, 04:03 PM
Lewis will go into fall practice as the number one QB. He will retain that status unless Asack clearly outplays him in practice.

It's been awhile since Duke has had two decent quarterbacks.

Channing
07-21-2007, 06:17 PM
Last reports I read indicated that Zack Asack was planning on returning this year. Any news on which of our most recent freshman starters will be running the show this year? Hopefully one of them distinguishes himself, I can't stand time-sharing arrangements, and they flat-out have failed for us in the past.

who will be the next spence fischer . . . only time will tell . . .

NovaScotian
07-21-2007, 08:47 PM
thaddeus lewis showed some real signs of improvement last year, as exemplified by near game winning drives against miami and unc (others, too? i cant remember). he should definetely have the starting spot this year, in an offense with a more experienced o-line to give him more time to throw (less interceptions) and time to maybe show how much of a dual threat hes supposed to be. not to knock asack, but he was far from an established qb1 when he left.

that said, maybe paulus would like to give it a shot? just kidding.

formerdukeathlete
07-22-2007, 08:33 PM
not to knock asack, but he was far from an established qb1 when he left.

that said, maybe paulus would like to give it a shot? just kidding.

He was quite established, when he left.

Asack had offers from Maryland, Boston College and Notre Dame.

Lewis has offers from Michigan State and Pittsburgh.

Scout combine for Lewis:

Scout.com Combine Results (full list):
Location: Jacksonville
Height: 6-0
Weight: 191
40-Yard Dash: 4.82
Short Shuttle: 4.5
Vertical Jump: 29"
3-Cone: 7.47
Broad Jump: 8-7

Asack won the 55 meter hurdles in high school, and ran sub 4.5 40s.

Asack is 6'4" and Lewis is right close to 6'.

While much is made of Lewis' playmaking, Asack is quicker, taller, and some would say has a better throwing arm.

I think Asack beats out Lewis and then Lewis (unfortunately) transfers. It is tough to go from starting as a freshman to second string.

If Greg Paulus senses that he might not be tracking for a NBA career and goes out for Football, well, it will go like this - his first game will be like Dan Marino's first (preseason) game with the Dolphins after graduating from Pitt. The Dolphin faithful were stunned. Marino was the 8th quarterback taken in the draft that year. Shula was criticized for taking him even then. One quarter into the game, every critic was silenced. It was remarkable. Paulus is that kind of impact qb.

jafarr1
07-22-2007, 09:42 PM
Well, you're missing the fact that Asack was not generally recruited as a QB: he was recruited to move to the secondary. So, while he had some impressive offers, they were a reflection of his athleticism, not his QB skills.

That aside, I wouldn't be so quick to assume that Lewis will be passed by. A number of people, both inside and outside the Duke program, have a high opinion of Lewis as a QB. Guess we'll see come fall.

VaDukie
07-22-2007, 09:46 PM
He was quite established, when he left.

Asack had offers from Maryland, Boston College and Notre Dame.

Lewis has offers from Michigan State and Pittsburgh.

Scout combine for Lewis:

Scout.com Combine Results (full list):
Location: Jacksonville
Height: 6-0
Weight: 191
40-Yard Dash: 4.82
Short Shuttle: 4.5
Vertical Jump: 29"
3-Cone: 7.47
Broad Jump: 8-7

Asack won the 55 meter hurdles in high school, and ran sub 4.5 40s.

Asack is 6'4" and Lewis is right close to 6'.

While much is made of Lewis' playmaking, Asack is quicker, taller, and some would say has a better throwing arm.

I think Asack beats out Lewis and then Lewis (unfortunately) transfers. It is tough to go from starting as a freshman to second string.

If Greg Paulus senses that he might not be tracking for a NBA career and goes out for Football, well, it will go like this - his first game will be like Dan Marino's first (preseason) game with the Dolphins after graduating from Pitt. The Dolphin faithful were stunned. Marino was the 8th quarterback taken in the draft that year. Shula was criticized for taking him even then. One quarter into the game, every critic was silenced. It was remarkable. Paulus is that kind of impact qb.

Greg didn't come to Duke to prepare for the NBA. He said that he loves basketball and he wants to coach someday, and that he felt playing under K would set him up for that.

whereinthehellami
07-23-2007, 08:08 AM
I like Lewis alot. He brings a ton of athletiscm to the QB position. i thought he was dangerous when flushed from the pocket and had a respectable arm. I think Lewis has 1st team locked down and Asack makes a solid 2nd team.

formerdukeathlete
07-23-2007, 10:01 AM
I like Lewis alot. He brings a ton of athletiscm to the QB position. i thought he was dangerous when flushed from the pocket and had a respectable arm. I think Lewis has 1st team locked down and Asack makes a solid 2nd team.

re athleticism, Asack is the more athletic. He is two steps faster, one step quicker. Lewis is quite a bit shorter, easier to catch, maybe a little harder to tackle once caught. How many sacks last season? I also like a taller qb as a general matter. Lewis beat out Marcus Jones who was taller and more athletic than he. Ultimately things hinge on how well they throw - and judgment, avoiding interceptions, reading blitzes and avoiding sacks.

What I do think we need to consider is how the future of the Football program hinges on how effectively the Football coaching staff can utilize either or both QBs. It will be difficult to recruit players who were as highly sought after anytime soon without on the field success.

It is true, Duke landed Asack and Marcus Jones for that matter because Duke would give them a chance at qb. Asack as a freshman all america honorable mention apparently showed more promise and skills at qb than some schools would have anticipated.

Most seem on the Lewis bandwaggon, and discount Asack's chances. That Asack wins the position, is the contrarian view at this point. Either way, I hope we have some breaks, and, importantly, that the Trustees approve the Wade renovation program.

Duvall
07-23-2007, 10:28 AM
Let's be serious - given past experience with Duke football, we're going to *need* two quarterbacks at numerous points during the season. Let's just be glad that we might actually have two potentially solid starters.

Truth
07-23-2007, 10:37 AM
Greg didn't come to Duke to prepare for the NBA. He said that he loves basketball and he wants to coach someday, and that he felt playing under K would set him up for that.

I find it hard to believe that Greg was not entertaining NBA dreams when he entered Duke. In fact, I would find it hard to believe that he is not still entertaining those same thoughts (obviously based on hopeful future performance).

Where have you seen or heard Greg indicate that he was using Duke basketball as a stepping stone to a basketball coaching position?

TheTrain
07-23-2007, 12:17 PM
While Asack may be taller by 2 inches (6'4" vs. 6'2") and faster in a pure track sense......Lewis is more polished at the position. As was mentioned earlier, we were the only school that was going to give him a shot at QB. He was recruited as a safety at every other school. He does not have a stronger arm than Lewis and you will find no coach worth his salt that would say that. It should be noted that Lewis was offered as a QB by Texas A&M, WVU, Rutgers, TCU, Pittsburgh, USF, and Clemson as well

johnb
07-23-2007, 12:47 PM
I've also heard that Greg intends to coach, and Duke is a pretty good place for that since every Duke point guard for 20 years has made a living off basketball. Having said that, I have no doubt that he would accept an interim job as an NBA player.

rtnorthrup
07-23-2007, 01:50 PM
Anyone who saw Thad against Wake last year knows that he has the potential to be a special player at Duke. As a true freshman playing behind the least experienced offensive line in Div I last year, Thad shows signs of ability that Duke football has not seen in a while.

Zach is a good football player, he will push Thad hard, and he will be a quality backup, but Thad is our QB. Hopefully, new coach, Vaas will be able to create an offense that highlights Thads abilities.

formerdukeathlete
07-23-2007, 03:34 PM
While Asack may be taller by 2 inches (6'4" vs. 6'2") and faster in a pure track sense......Lewis is more polished at the position. As was mentioned earlier, we were the only school that was going to give him a shot at QB. He was recruited as a safety at every other school. He does not have a stronger arm than Lewis and you will find no coach worth his salt that would say that. It should be noted that Lewis was offered as a QB by Texas A&M, WVU, Rutgers, TCU, Pittsburgh, USF, and Clemson as well

Lewis stands at least 3 inches shorter than Asack, notwithstanding what the football program says. Lewis was measured 6' even at the Scout combine. May be's grown. But, I dont think he is anything more than 6' 1/2".

Also, according to Scout, Lewis had the following offers:

Schools of Interest:
School Interest Level Offer? Attended Camp? Visit Date Signed LOI?
Duke Verbal Yes 01/27/2005
Michigan State No Interest Yes None
Pittsburgh No Interest Yes 12/02/2005
South Florida No Interest Yes 01/20/2005
TCU No Interest Yes None

Maybe you are right that Texas A&M offered. Neither Scout, nor Rivals say anything about Clemson.

In terms of consistent track runs, Lewis is a 4.9 40 guy and Asack is a 4.5 40 guy. That is a pretty big difference. In high school I ran 4.8 40s at 3 inches taller than Lewis, 30 lbs heavier. Yes, Lewis can outrun our offensive lineman. But, many defensive lineman and linebackers he will face are faster than he is. Asack can outrun most of these guys. Asack also worked on his throwing in the offseason with Tom Brady of the Pats. Maybe he shows up throwing better, running better, scrambling better, throwing fewer interceptions, and winning considerable playing time going into the season. I think all of the coaches believe this is a distinct possibility.

As far as Asack being recruited as a safety, well his freshman year stats and accolades are more relevant at this point.

gvtucker
07-23-2007, 03:58 PM
Lewis stands at least 3 inches shorter than Asack, notwithstanding what the football program says. Lewis was measured 6' even at the Scout combine. May be's grown. But, I dont think he is anything more than 6' 1/2".

blah blah blah blah

As far as Asack being recruited as a safety, well his freshman year stats and accolades are more relevant at this point.
Fine. First, let's look at freshman year stats, as you suggest.

Asack was 90-180 for 966 yds, with 5 TDs and 8 INTs.
Lewis was 180-340 for 2,134 yds with 11 TDs and 16 INTs.

The most reliable stat, Yards per attempt: Asack--5.4, Lewis--6.3

I have never heard anyone other than you claim that Asack had the better arm. That is because he doesn't. Lewis does.

Your claim that Lewis can't be more than 6'" is absurd. Plenty of kids grow more than a half inch between their senior year in high school and their sophomore year in college.

Asack is a better runner. At least you got that one right.

TheTrain
07-23-2007, 04:01 PM
He measured 6'0 1/2 at the Nike Camp the summer before his senior year of high school....he now measures an inch taller...not a surprise.....FWIW, anecdotally, I grew 7 inches from 5'2" to 5'9" in my senior year of high school

As for his speed, here is what he said in an interview dated August 7, 2005

“I don’t know, I guess it was just an off day. I should have run a little faster and I know that that was not my best forty. I am not really sure what was up, I just did not run my best.”


Regarding his offers....I point you to his interview with Scott Kennedy on September 13, 2005
"I haven't picked up any new offers yet," said Lewis. "I still have offers from Pittsburgh, USF, Texas A&M, West Virginia, Clemson, Duke, TCU, and Rutgers. Duke was the first school to call me. Texas A&M, Pittsburgh, Michigan State, USF, and Kentucky have all called. They pretty much ask me how I am doing, how the team is doing, and when would I like to come for a visit."

FWIW, his comments regarding offers were consistent throughout the process....there were at least 10 interviews in which he lists his offers

There is a reason why so many staffs declined to offer Asack as a QB despite his speed......a lot of it has to do with elusiveness (which is significantly different than straight ahead speed...look no further than Jerry Rice for an example) and arm strength. Most coaches will tell you that there is game speed and track speed....these staffs watch hours upon hours of game film evaluating every play (especially with QBs) and it speaks volumes regarding the number of top programs that offered Lewis as a QB

formerdukeathlete
07-23-2007, 05:24 PM
Fine. First, let's look at freshman year stats, as you suggest.

Asack was 90-180 for 966 yds, with 5 TDs and 8 INTs.
Lewis was 180-340 for 2,134 yds with 11 TDs and 16 INTs.

The most reliable stat, Yards per attempt: Asack--5.4, Lewis--6.3

I have never heard anyone other than you claim that Asack had the better arm. That is because he doesn't. Lewis does.

Your claim that Lewis can't be more than 6'" is absurd. Plenty of kids grow more than a half inch between their senior year in high school and their sophomore year in college.

Asack is a better runner. At least you got that one right.

I do not know about what growth spurt you are talking about, but I hope you are right that Lewis has grown in height, because that would be good for him and good for Duke. Right now, look at the guys standing side by side and they are 3 inches apart in height.

Lewis looked slow-footed at times last season. This relates to elusiveness. He did not look to have superior game speed to Asack according to the games I watched in 05 and 06.

I am rooting for the guy. However, I take a contrarian view at this point. I think Asack's height, speed, and improved throwing get him to the starting position.

We all mourn for the loss of Delle Donne. Correct me if I am wrong, but, I am told that in practice he was able to accurately throw 50 yards down the field.

Olympic Fan
07-24-2007, 04:14 PM
I hope it's not a "vs." situation.

Geez, it's not like it's so terrible to have two good quarterbacks. And I think all this debate over whether Lewis is 6-0 1/2 or 6-1 1/2 or 6-2 is plain silly.

I have no problem with anybody thinking Asack is better and will win the job ... even though I happen to disagree. I thought Lewis was more effective as a freshman than Asack was as a freshman.

Look at their freshman numbers:

Asack 90 of 180 (50.0 percent) for 966 yards ... 5 TDs and 8 INT
(also run 75 times for 98 net yards)

Lewis 180 of 340 (52.9 percent) for 2,134 yards ... 11 TDs and 16 INT
(also 99 carries for minus one yard)

Before you break down those numbers, it's worth considering that Asack was probably playing behind a much better offensive line (last year's O-line was terrible early, although it improved as the season went on), while Lewis had a more experienced group of receivers to throw to (basically the same guys as Asack's targets, just a year older).

Neither won a game as the starter (Asack came off the bench and threw just four passes in the lopsided win over VMI). Of the six games Asack started, Duke came close to winning one -- the 24-22 loss to UNC in the finale. Of the 11 games Lewis started, Duke came very close to winning three -- the 14-13 loss at Wake (when Lewis threw for 300-plus yards and drove Duke for the potential game-winning field goal); the 20-15 loss to Miami; and the 45-44 loss to UNC.

That said ... Lewis completed a higher percentage ... had more yards per attempt (which I agree is the single most important passing stat) ... with a slightly better TD rate, a slightly better TD to INT ratio. Asack did run better.

It's worth noting that Lewis had more passing yards than any freshman QB in Duke history. In fact, he had more passing yards than any other TRUE freshman in ACC history. Overall, it's fourth among ACC freshmen quarterbacks -- but two of the three guys ahead of him (Weatherford and Rix at FSU) were redshirts, while the other (Rivers at State) enrolled early and went through spring practice before his freshman year.

Lewis ended up with more yards, a much better completion rate and a much lower interception rate than Ben Bennett, who had a pretty good year at Duke (and wasn't any taller than Lewis).

Lewis was also was the only quarterback going through spring practice -- where he was taught by Peter Vaas (Brady Quinn's tutor at Notre Dame).

I think all of this gives him an edge -- no matter how the two players were rated by the recruiting services coming out of high school. But I love having two quality quarterbacks and if Asack is good enough to beat Lewis out, then more power to him.

But until I see differently, I think Thaddeus Lewis is the man.

rtnorthrup
07-24-2007, 04:34 PM
Lets just hope that Roof does not try a two headed approach. We need to pick a QB and go with him.

-jk
07-24-2007, 05:06 PM
Lets just hope that Roof does not try a two headed approach. We need to pick a QB and go with him.

I don't know - given the rate of injuries (c.f. the Duke Basketball team), having two QBs ready to start any game can't be that bad...

-jk

DevilWolf
07-24-2007, 10:00 PM
Anyone who saw the Duke/VPI football game last year DOES NOT want Greg Paulus playing quarterback.

I feel like Lewis gives us a better chance at winning games. Having said that, I'd actually like using Asack in certain situations. He's a better runner than Lewis, and could certainly throw in a little wrinkle with a spread offense. But as the normal package quarterback, I like Lewis a lot better.

formerdukeathlete
07-24-2007, 11:49 PM
Anyone who saw the Duke/VPI football game last year DOES NOT want Greg Paulus playing quarterback.

I feel like Lewis gives us a better chance at winning games. Having said that, I'd actually like using Asack in certain situations. He's a better runner than Lewis, and could certainly throw in a little wrinkle with a spread offense. But as the normal package quarterback, I like Lewis a lot better.

Greg is an inch taller.

Greg ran 4.6 40s in high school. Lewis ran 4.9 40s.

but, the difference in 40s times was / is a bit misleading.

Greg is noticably quicker - part of the reason why he was 5 star rated and offered qb by Notre Dame.

So, if at some point Greg wants to go out for Football, I worry less that he might suffer a concussion in a game - the VT safety who suckered Lewis - Greg would have side-stepped him, imo.

Jarhead
07-25-2007, 09:42 PM
I
Where have you seen or heard Greg indicate that he was using Duke basketball as a stepping stone to a basketball coaching position?

It was well established, during his freshman year on these very forums, that Greg's goal was to be a basketball coach. I can recall some heated debates on this very issue.

SilkyJ
07-27-2007, 11:00 AM
Why do even entertain notions of paulus playing football? It aint happenin. He has completely devoted himself to basketball, has made it clear since HIGH SCHOOL that he wants to play Bball, and has never even mentioned anything about playing football. (And that is to say nothing of the fact that after two years away from the game it would take him at least a year just to get back into his old form as a HS senior)

4decadedukie
07-27-2007, 11:28 AM
I can imagine several plays, not the easiest to execute but potentially very effective, that have two "quarterbacks" simultaneously in the backfield. Further, with Duke's several close games/last-minutes losses in the 2006 season, this could have made a difference.

Bluedawg
07-28-2007, 01:09 AM
thaddeus lewis showed some real signs of improvement last year, as exemplified by near game winning drives against miami and unc (others, too? i cant remember). he should definetely have the starting spot this year, in an offense with a more experienced o-line to give him more time to throw (less interceptions) and time to maybe show how much of a dual threat hes supposed to be. not to knock asack, but he was far from an established qb1 when he left.

that said, maybe paulus would like to give it a shot? just kidding.

You can probably add Wake Forest and Alabama to that list. Interesting writeup on Greg (http://cnyhsfootball.com/2004/recruitingNews.html)


It's been awhile since Duke has had two decent quarterbacks.

yess it has, this may be fun to watch.


Hopefully one of them distinguishes himself, I can't stand time-sharing arrangements, and they flat-out have failed for us in the past.

Agreed. it usually fails when tried. A coach needs to pick a leader and stick with it.

Bluedawg
07-28-2007, 01:24 AM
Lewis was also was the only quarterback going through spring practice --

This is probably the biggest factor in his favor.


But until I see differently, I think Thaddeus Lewis is the man.

Although I've always been a big fan of Zack's I agree with this.