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View Full Version : MBB: Florida State 90, North Carolina 57 -- Not a typo -- Heels lose by 33



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OZZIE4DUKE
01-14-2012, 03:41 PM
FSU is beating carolina 65-36 with 11:28 left. WOW! The fat lady hasn't sung yet, but WOW!

jjasper0729
01-14-2012, 03:43 PM
FSU is beating carolina 65-36 with 11:28 left. WOW! The fat lady hasn't sung yet, but WOW!

Here's hoping that we don't have a similar flat game tomorrow against the tiggers.

I also am finding it hard not to yell at the tv when unc actually gets whistled for a foul and they are in stunned disbelief

Native
01-14-2012, 03:45 PM
Roy doesn't schedule true road games.

superdave
01-14-2012, 03:48 PM
This is just like the Kansas game in the Final Four, except there's no Unc comeback and FSU kinda sucks.

GTHC.

OZZIE4DUKE
01-14-2012, 03:51 PM
From 70-40 to 70-48. FSU has gotten very sloppy.

Oooo! 75-48!

dukeforester
01-14-2012, 03:51 PM
Inside Carolina is hilarious!

duke09hms
01-14-2012, 03:51 PM
How did Harvard beat FSU? Yeaa Tommy Amaker

hurleyfor3
01-14-2012, 03:51 PM
Gotta give fsu credit for continuing to play aggressively.

Up 27 at the under-8 tvto.

SMO
01-14-2012, 03:52 PM
Inside Carolina is hilarious!

Man that 7 point Duke win at GA Tech sure looks good now!

hurleyfor3
01-14-2012, 03:53 PM
BTW, unc is in the double bonus and fsu isn't, up 27. Just in case people on ic start complaining about the officiating.

77devil
01-14-2012, 04:00 PM
Hope the other version of FSU shos up for our game in Talahassee. Look for Roy to throw the team under the bus before it's even warmed up.

CameronBlue
01-14-2012, 04:01 PM
BTW, unc is in the double bonus and fsu isn't, up 27. Just in case people on ic start complaining about the officiating.

Shooting all those free throws is upsetting UNC's offensive rhythm. UNC fans have a right to be upset with the officiating. Clearly the refs are trying to put UNC off its game.

JNort
01-14-2012, 04:01 PM
FSU is beating carolina 65-36 with 11:28 left. WOW! The fat lady hasn't sung yet, but WOW!

You just are not close enough to her. Trust me she is singing very loud and very very clear. :D

weezie
01-14-2012, 04:02 PM
I'm sensing an early start to cocktail hour....

superdave
01-14-2012, 04:03 PM
I really need to jump in the shower and head out, but I want to see Dulky's standing O when he leaves the game. This is too much fun.

No heart in the Heels!

JNort
01-14-2012, 04:06 PM
What a way to shove a little something else on to the Tarheels! They just showed on tv the last 30pt loss for unc *Duke 82-50* and the last 35pt loss *Duke 104-69*

MartyClark
01-14-2012, 04:09 PM
I really need to jump in the shower and head out, but I want to see Dulky's standing O when he leaves the game. This is too much fun.

No heart in the Heels!

Sweet.

weezie
01-14-2012, 04:12 PM
Holy cow! Leaving the court?!!!!

nmduke2001
01-14-2012, 04:12 PM
wow. Roy just took his guys to the locker room before the game is over.

jjasper0729
01-14-2012, 04:13 PM
Holy cow! Leaving the court?!!!!

I don't think I've ever seen that before

weezie
01-14-2012, 04:13 PM
Can anyone tell me if K has ever abandoned his team on the court? rushing threat or not?

devildeac
01-14-2012, 04:13 PM
Amazing. 90-57.

JasonEvans
01-14-2012, 04:13 PM
Dulkys has more points in this game than in... wait for it... HIS LAST 9 GAMES COMBINED!

Dude is going all Boosty on Carolina. This makes the performance of Harold "The show" Arceneaux seem like just another game. Dayum!

-Jason "8-for-10 from 3 for a guy who generally hits less than a third of his 3s... wow, talk about an outlier of a game" Evans

SilkyJ
01-14-2012, 04:14 PM
UNC taking the team off the floor with 14 seconds to avoid the fans rushing the court (with the exception of the 5 walkons and some assts)

Sounds like Leonard Hamilton suggested it. Classy move and a smart move all around.

hurleyfor3
01-14-2012, 04:14 PM
K did that at fsu in 2006. However, it was after the students stormed the court prematurely, with a few seconds left and the game still in doubt.

Roy's a quitter.

weezie
01-14-2012, 04:17 PM
Roy's a quitter.

Seconded, show of hands, and the motion passes with flying colors

miramar
01-14-2012, 04:18 PM
Inside Carolina is hilarious!

even more hilarious than usual.

JNort
01-14-2012, 04:18 PM
I do not like to defend Roy but Leonard Hamilton is the one who suggested it (Leaving the court early). Classy thing for him to suggest it but I kinda look down on Roy for abandoning the 5 walkons

cptnflash
01-14-2012, 04:18 PM
That... was beautiful.

cruxer
01-14-2012, 04:18 PM
I don't know if Hamilton suggested it this time, but didn't the heels also leave the sideline early during the UNLV loss?

-c

_Gary
01-14-2012, 04:18 PM
Ha-ha-ha-ha. I love it! It should shut up the Heel fans I have to deal with, at least for a while. :p

weezie
01-14-2012, 04:19 PM
Slainte!

Devilsfan
01-14-2012, 04:19 PM
Was that the infamous unc tar heels or the FRENCH ARMY?

RoyalBlue08
01-14-2012, 04:19 PM
I really enjoyed that. The most surprising thing to me was how quickly Roy quit on that game. He didn't even seem to challenge his team to respond. Strange.

Devilsfan
01-14-2012, 04:21 PM
Did I hear ol'roy yelling NO MAS, NO MAS!!

hurleyfor3
01-14-2012, 04:21 PM
In the 2006 incident, I'm pretty sure K stayed on the court until the buzzer sounded.

What I recall is that fsu got a T for rushing the court, and JJ made both free throws, putting us down 3. FSU then had 2 free throws from a common foul, and made at least one, putting the game away. After fsu made the first FT, K sent everyone off except for the last five guys on the bench.

jv001
01-14-2012, 04:23 PM
Ha-ha-ha-ha. I love it! It should shut up the Heel fans I have to deal with, at least for a while. :p

I won't have to look at all that ugly blue in church tomorrow. Those ugly tar heel ties and those ugly women's pocket books. GoDuke!

weezie
01-14-2012, 04:24 PM
Nice to see EJ singler taking it to the az wildcat over on CBS, too.

Plus Red Wing beat blackhawk in OT, good day for me! Where is that bottle of wine....

Devilsfan
01-14-2012, 04:25 PM
I'm going out and buying a FSU cap! They got beat by a kid whose parents couldn't spell, the Dulky's kid!

hurleyfor3
01-14-2012, 04:25 PM
BTW, Dick Vitale, please shut the hell up about Tim Tebow when I'm trying to enjoy unc losing.

weezie
01-14-2012, 04:26 PM
....those ugly women's pocket books. GoDuke!

Hhmm, ugly women with ugly pocketbooks, now that's a ton of ugly.:eek:

I'll bet their shoes are ugly too.hahahaha

elvis14
01-14-2012, 04:30 PM
I came home sick from work yesterday. I have a sore throat, felt pretty bad all day. I generally refuse to watch UNC@CH games. I had it on and it was muted and I was watching Misfits via Hulu on my laptop. All of a sudden, I feel better. My throats a little less sore, I'm a little less tired. I think the sun even started to shine a little. Thanks FSU!

grossbus
01-14-2012, 04:31 PM
best line from IC, early in the game.

"FSU is not going to shoot like this the whole game. The Heels will be fine."

dukeballboy88
01-14-2012, 04:32 PM
After watching that, Dukes d aint as bad as I thought. Dulky looked like he was shooting around at open gym.

oldnavy
01-14-2012, 04:34 PM
I don[t like pulling the starters and bench players off the court. You win as a team, and you lose as a team, and you should leave the court as a team. What message does it give the scrubs that are left on the court? Hey good luck guys! Well be on the bus if you can make it out alive!!!

Having said that, I think it should be a major penalty imposed to the team who's fans storm the floor, it is dangerous and the powers to be should stop it.

davekay1971
01-14-2012, 04:34 PM
I kinda look down on Roy for abandoning the 5 walkons

Roy did the exact same thing at the UNLV game and it was just as classless then for him to leave his walk-ons on the court. I mean, if the point of taking the players off the court is to avoid injury when/if the students rush the court, why is it ok to leave the walk-ons out there? I get the practical point that Henson getting injured in a student court-rush hurts the UNC chances of winning future games more than Joe Tarheel from the end of the bench, but I'm not sure Joe Tarheel's mom sees her son's health as being any less of an issue than Henson's.

Then again, the way some of these Carolina parents drink the light blue Kool-Aid, some of them would probably consider it their family's proudest moment for little Joey to lay down his life under the rush of FSU students if it allows Henson or Barnes to make it to the locker room in safety...

JNort
01-14-2012, 04:35 PM
I only watched parts of the game but.... Who the heck was supposed to guard Dulky?????????

G man
01-14-2012, 04:36 PM
I understand sometimes you can't throw it in the ocean, but how can a team with this many nba players do so bad? Go Seminoles!

JNort
01-14-2012, 04:38 PM
Inside Carolina is hilarious!

I would not be surprised if all the mods just took the day off over there. Lol that is gonna be a mess for the next 24 hours

hurleyfor3
01-14-2012, 04:39 PM
Unc now has two 30-point ACC losses in the last three seasons.

When was our last 30-point ACC loss, anyone know? We didn't have one in 1995. The Clemson loss in 2009 was by 27.

The last 30-point loss in any game that I remember was the 1990 championship game.

jv001
01-14-2012, 04:40 PM
I understand sometimes you can't throw it in the ocean, but how can a team with this many nba players do so bad? Go Seminoles!

For a change, roy is saying it's his fault in post game interview. GoDuke!

jjasper0729
01-14-2012, 04:44 PM
I don[t like pulling the starters and bench players off the court. You win as a team, and you lose as a team, and you should leave the court as a team. What message does it give the scrubs that are left on the court? Hey good luck guys! Well be on the bus if you can make it out alive!!!

Having said that, I think it should be a major penalty imposed to the team who's fans storm the floor, it is dangerous and the powers to be should stop it.

The sec has pretty onerous penalties for storming the court for schools. If I recall the first one that got hit with a fine was Vandy a few years ago

JasonEvans
01-14-2012, 04:52 PM
I will give someone massive moderator pitchfork points if they go over to IC and compile a list of the best quotes.

Thanks!

-Jason

Kedsy
01-14-2012, 04:53 PM
How many teams have lost by 30+ in the regular season and then gone on to the Final Four? Not many, I'll bet.

hurleyfor3
01-14-2012, 04:55 PM
How many teams have lost by 30+ in the regular season and then gone on to the Final Four? Not many, I'll bet.

Unc got buried at Wake in 1993, although I think the margin was only 25 or 26.

howardlander
01-14-2012, 04:55 PM
Sure puts the Duke loss at Ohio State in perspective doesn't it? Has any team ever one a National Championship the same year it lost a game by more than 30?

Howard

jjasper0729
01-14-2012, 04:58 PM
I'd be willing to wager there will be the excuse that dulkys just couldn't miss but it's real easy to be accurate when there no defender within three feet. That was some serious defensive lapsing by the holes today

And I swear if I see another baby blue player pout and cry when a whistle is blown against them. Ugh. Don't know how many fouls i saw that weren't whistled when the same thing was done against fsu

Eternal Outlaw
01-14-2012, 04:58 PM
I do not like to defend Roy but Leonard Hamilton is the one who suggested it (Leaving the court early). Classy thing for him to suggest it but I kinda look down on Roy for abandoning the 5 walkons

I'm calling BS on the report Hamilton suggested it. Went back on DVR and he was standing in his box when Roy walked to half court and signaled him over. Roy suggested it, Hamilton did a nice gesture by trying to help Roy save face.

uh_no
01-14-2012, 04:58 PM
Can anyone tell me if K has ever abandoned his team on the court? rushing threat or not?

yes

duke did it once during the redick era, i believe against BC, but I am unsure

DukeHoopsGuru
01-14-2012, 04:58 PM
How many teams have lost by 30+ in the regular season and then gone on to the Final Four? Not many, I'll bet.

I've always had a de facto 30 point rule. Teams that lose by 30 or more at full strength can't win a title. That's always been my rule, and I can't think of any off hand that have recently. It says something about the character of your team and/or talent if you lose by that much. Even Duke fought to the end against OSU.

ArkieDukie
01-14-2012, 04:58 PM
I do not like to defend Roy but Leonard Hamilton is the one who suggested it (Leaving the court early). Classy thing for him to suggest it but I kinda look down on Roy for abandoning the 5 walkons

Exactly. I had no problem with him sending the rest of the team to the locker room, but I thought it was in poor form to go into the locker room himself and leave his 5 walkons on the court.

1 24 90
01-14-2012, 04:58 PM
Sure puts the Duke loss at Ohio State in perspective doesn't it? Has any team ever one a National Championship the same year it lost a game by more than 30?

Howard

I would like to know the answer to this. Could Duke's 22 point loss in the ACC title game in 1991 be the most lopsided loss of any national champion?

weezie
01-14-2012, 04:59 PM
I will give someone massive moderator pitchfork points if they go over to IC and compile a list of the best quotes.

Thanks!

-Jason

Ah geez, how to pick just a list when they are all golden?!

It's great when posters turn on each other like rabid dogs, though.

hurleyfor3
01-14-2012, 05:00 PM
yes

duke did it once during the redick era, i believe against BC, but I am unsure

It was at FSU in 2006, as I posted on page 2. The circumstances were rather different.

SupaDave
01-14-2012, 05:01 PM
I will give someone massive moderator pitchfork points if they go over to IC and compile a list of the best quotes.

Thanks!

-Jason

Awesomeness from the IC...


Wow - comparing an imagined fracas at the end of a basketball game to 9/11. So let me get this right, FSU fans are terrorists who have only bad things in store for opposing players; so they can't be trusted. You're way off the deep end on this. Court storming happens a couple times a week in college basketball - players are always well-protected. Will someone, someday shiv a guy in the side? Perhaps...but that could happen at any point during a game, or after a game and be unrelated to court storming entirely. Ask Monica Seles.

JasonEvans
01-14-2012, 05:03 PM
I really feel for Okaro White. Dude scored 12 points and grabbed 10 boards (6 offensive) playing against Carolina's front line of lottery picks and no one is talking about him at all. He is an afterthought. He's been Dulkyed out of the conversation. Poor kid.

-Jason "KenPom had Carolina's D at #6 in the nation, 85.9 rating... wonder how much it drops" Evans

burnspbesq
01-14-2012, 05:10 PM
White got some love from the guys in the ESPN truck. They put his stat line up late in the game.

shereec
01-14-2012, 05:10 PM
Exactly. I had no problem with him sending the rest of the team to the locker room, but I thought it was in poor form to go into the locker room himself and leave his 5 walkons on the court.

He didn't just go to the locker room, ole roy led lead the exodus. wasn't he almost to the exit when he turned around and waved for his players to come on?

ArkieDukie
01-14-2012, 05:18 PM
I will give someone massive moderator pitchfork points if they go over to IC and compile a list of the best quotes.

Thanks!

-Jason
I started at the end of the post-game thread and moved backwards. Surprisingly, there are lots of level-headed voices of reason - far more than the crack pots, in fact. Maybe I just haven't read enough. Overwhelming sentiment is that the scholly players should've gotten yanked earlier because they clearly weren't there to play. On the whole, they're also not happy with Roy's near end of game Walk of Shame, either.

I'll give you a bit of the picture.

"They should have left the court at half time because they sure didnt show up after it."

or this one, in response to comments regarding injuries due to fans storming the court:
"Have you seen Roy in the "take a poop" stance? His hip is not fragile." A true classic.

and, like us, some don't think Roy's early trip to the locker room was cool:
"So you're a coward too? If Roy expects these guys to fight for him, he needs to fight for them. There are five guys on the floor who were thrown to the wolves with 20 seconds to go - if anything Roy's actions put the guys on the floor in GREATER danger."

Happy, happy:
"UNC is the court jester of college ball today." I have no argument with that.

Roy is catching lots of flak:
"This deserves booing.
Bringing even more shame upon the team.

I am done with Roy!!!!!!!"

Here's a great one; it's the imagined conversation between Roy and Hamilton regarding the departure of the holes before the end of the game:

"Coach Hamilton to Roy: "Get that trash outta hear- now they are embarrassing me!"" BWAHAHA

Lots of Roy-bashing:
"THIS is how Roy Williams coaches. Roll it out and count on your players being more talented than your opponents. THIS would never happen under Dean and NEVER under K. This is an embarrassment and he should take a long hard look at how he coaches, assuming he knows how to make in game adjustments."

ArkieDukie
01-14-2012, 05:23 PM
"Roy should have refused to leave and made the team watch the FSU celebration. Wuss coach, wuss team."

Actually, that's not a bad idea. I also think the fans who are asking why the starters weren't yanked earlier are on to something. If nothing else, it might have lit a fire under them (the starters, that is). I was really pessimistic about our chances against unc until I watched this game. They appear to be a team lacking in heart.

Sgt. Dingleberry
01-14-2012, 05:25 PM
Just checked out the box score, my three favorite things...

1)As a team, UNC had a 22:8 TO:Assist ratio. How is that even possible?
2)PJ Hairston, and his mouth, 0-8 from the field, 0-7 from 3.
3)Henson making Mason look good, went 0-7 from the FT line.

El_Diablo
01-14-2012, 05:25 PM
I will give someone massive moderator pitchfork points if they go over to IC and compile a list of the best quotes.

Thanks!

-Jason

Here's a modest sampling...

-Adam Boone gains 12th year of eligibility [a]nd plays point guard for UNC today. If Marshall keeps playing like such a scrub these kinds of results are going to continue.

-I can't name one thing that Barnes does well.

-Relax please the Heels will make the adjustments in the second half and take care of business!
-They've made adjustments, to not even pretend to play with fundamentals.

-I going call Roy Monday night and suggest we go to the spread and use five wideouts. He will love that.

-Players left on the floor to play without coaches and the rest of the team made this game the worst humiliation I have ever seen over the 40 years I have been watching Carolina Basketball or Football.

-total lack of class!!!! Send the other players back so they don't get hurt. but as a coach, you do NOT abandon your players!!!!
-Do you realize how old Roy is? And if he got hurt or a FSU fan attacked him?
-He'd better worry about a Carolina fan attacking him.

-Well, it is obvious what this team's weakness is...
-Mental toughness.
-Basketball
-Lack of a beating heart.
-Crappy fans.

dukedoc
01-14-2012, 05:27 PM
UNC taking the team off the floor with 14 seconds to avoid the fans rushing the court (with the exception of the 5 walkons and some assts)

Sounds like Leonard Hamilton suggested it. Classy move and a smart move all around.

Definitely classy by Hamilton and always smart to protect the student athletes. However, I'm not sure what message Roy is sending when he leaves behind 5 walk-ons on the floor when his premise was clearly that it was dangerous to be out there. It's a team, there should be no hierarchy in terms of safety.

Olympic Fan
01-14-2012, 05:27 PM
Despite what Vitale said, Hamilton DID NOT suggest that Roy and his players run to the locker room. Not only did Roy admit that it was his idea in his postgame, but if you wantch the tape of the finish, you can see that Hamilton is clearly stunned when Roy signals to Hamilton for a conference, then leads the exodus.

Yes, something similar happened at the end of Duke's 2006 loss in Tallahassee after the FSU fans rushed the court prematurely. Coach K sent his extra players to the locker room with three seconds left, leaving five scrubs on the court. The difference is that K and his coaches stayed with the five kids who finished the game. He didn't abandon them to their fate ... as Roy did.

I had not heard that Roy did the same thing after the UNLV game (I didn't stay up for that one). If so, for shame ... for shame.

Interesting that after the 2006 incident, the IC Carolina crowd crucified K for sending his players to the locker room early. To be fair, quite a few are blasting Roy for his behavior.

Duvall
01-14-2012, 05:28 PM
Definitely classy by Hamilton and always smart to protect the student athletes. However, I'm not sure what message Roy is sending when he leaves behind 5 walk-ons on the floor when his premise was clearly that it was dangerous to be out there. It's a team, there should be no hierarchy in terms of safety.

That's not a good solution, though - what about close games? It's past time for the ACC to exercise common sense and start imposing sanctions for schools that allow their fans to rush the court.

hurleyfor3
01-14-2012, 05:31 PM
That's not a good solution, though - what about close games? It's past time for the ACC to exercise common sense and start imposing sanction for schools that allow their fans to rush the court.

My idea is to disallow the win in the conference standings. It's not a forfeit, but it affects your seeding, and possibly whether you have to play on Thursday, in the tournament.

hustleplays
01-14-2012, 05:33 PM
"Roy should have refused to leave and made the team watch the FSU celebration. Wuss coach, wuss team."

Actually, that's not a bad idea. I also think the fans who are asking why the starters weren't yanked earlier are on to something. If nothing else, it might have lit a fire under them (the starters, that is). I was really pessimistic about our chances against unc until I watched this game. They appear to be a team lacking in heart.

I hope that our team was watching. We've already lost a couple of times and have been out-hearted more times than that. I hope our team lets today's UNC debacle sink in, if our prior poor showings haven't done the trick: No matter how good we are -- and we are pretty good but definitely not great -- we must come to play with full heart and brain, and we must play together, especially on the road. FSU played full out from the outset and then gained that "we can and will do this" confidence. They had earned all the momentum.

Go Duke!

weezie
01-14-2012, 05:35 PM
I hope that our team was watching.

I'll bet the coaches were watching and taking notes on how well the seminole broke the trap!
Made holes look more stupid that usual. lol

roywhite
01-14-2012, 05:35 PM
I hope that our team was watching.


A learning experience for our team if they saw this game?
Perhaps.

A fun experience?
Yes, definitely.

90-57 bwwwaaahahahahahaha

SupaDave
01-14-2012, 05:35 PM
Yes our team was watching...

JNort
01-14-2012, 05:35 PM
:D
I will give someone massive moderator pitchfork points if they go over to IC and compile a list of the best quotes.

Thanks!

-Jason

Why did Roy leave the 5 on the floor? This guy at IC sure gets it!
"Guys on the floor can get off the court faster the problem is the guys on the bench with their backs turned to the crowd can't. Smart move by Roy"

Talking about why Roy left the court and left players behind:

Do you realize how old Roy is?
And if he got hurt or a FSU fan attacked him?
---------------------------------------------
He'd better worry about a Carolina fan attacking him."

This guy just feels bad in general:

I'm sorry, we had players on the court today

Need a motto?

"Because we are Carolina, and that's what unknown players do once in their lives -- have a career day against Carolina."

In response to another poster questioning why Roy left the court early if nobody has ever been hurt in a court storming:

"Yeah and 20 years ago no one had hijacked a plane in the US and flew it into a building but it happened. I would much rather something be done now to prevent something bad from happening then let something happen then ask why. I guess you would rather take the risk." hmm I didnt know basketball was the serious thank God for Roy!

This guy respects the ACC a lot:

"acc standings come march


1. Duke
2. virginia
3. fsu
4. moou
5. carolina


mark it down"



Lol this is all 2 pages of one thread....

jv001
01-14-2012, 05:37 PM
I'll bet the coaches were watching and taking notes on how well the seminole broke the trap!
Made holes look more stupid that usual. lol

Now that was hard to do, but ole roy sure helped in that regard. GoDuke!

DukieInKansas
01-14-2012, 05:40 PM
I'm at the office and decided to quickly go online to check the KU-ISU score. What a pleasant surprise to see the FSU beat down of UNC.

I can understand sending the players not on the court to the locker room. I do not understand the coaches going also. The players on the court deserved better than that.

OldPhiKap
01-14-2012, 05:44 PM
Two observations, after watching the game:

1. Road games are tough, and FSU is really tough at home. They played extremely well.

2. Roy is menthally unstable. Perhaps less objective than the previous observation, but I stand by it.

Nice win by the 'Noles. Nice fold by the Heels.

AZLA
01-14-2012, 05:44 PM
Despite what Vitale said, Hamilton DID NOT suggest that Roy and his players run to the locker room. Not only did Roy admit that it was his idea in his postgame, but if you wantch the tape of the finish, you can see that Hamilton is clearly stunned when Roy signals to Hamilton for a conference, then leads the exodus.

Yes, something similar happened at the end of Duke's 2006 loss in Tallahassee after the FSU fans rushed the court prematurely. Coach K sent his extra players to the locker room with three seconds left, leaving five scrubs on the court. The difference is that K and his coaches stayed with the five kids who finished the game. He didn't abandon them to their fate ... as Roy did.

I had not heard that Roy did the same thing after the UNLV game (I didn't stay up for that one). If so, for shame ... for shame.

Interesting that after the 2006 incident, the IC Carolina crowd crucified K for sending his players to the locker room early. To be fair, quite a few are blasting Roy for his behavior.

Yes on the UNLV game -- I recall it occurring then and it seems to be a policy he's implementing going forward. He likes to be dramatic.

The most humorous part of today's game was at 4:44 in the 2nd half. Dulky ran out on Harrison Barnes, Roy's supa' star, and cleanly blocks Barns on a three attempt. Roy falls back in his seat, sulks, then leans forward and drops his head defeatedly in his hands.

Is it the day of the underdog?

Ahem... Niners? Denver?

dukedoc
01-14-2012, 05:47 PM
That's not a good solution, though - what about close games? It's past time for the ACC to exercise common sense and start imposing sanctions for schools that allow their fans to rush the court.

Sorry, I was unclear. I completely agree with you that rushing the court shouldn't be allowed at all.

Ultrarunner
01-14-2012, 05:55 PM
About Henson...

Henson is a good player, and I make these comments holding his potential in high regard, but he's just not improving as he should. You look at him and it's easy to expect more. Now I'm beginning to wonder if he's reached his ceiling.

He's not getting the ball down low enough, in good enough position or rythem, and when he does, he's still only getting by with superior athletisicism. His post moves are not fluid at all. His shooting touch is bulky. And his foul shooting is just plain bad. His court awareness is average at best. He rebounds strong and is a solid defender, but certainly not a stopper.

He's not the player I thought he'd be when I first saw him, but he can still be good enough to anchor a title team if this team can find some chemistry.

I left out the part where Wheat talked about the ability to stroke it from outside. Didn't seem to fit....

And I actually do like Henson but he'd drive me nuts if he was at Duke. Much like Mason does.

Ichabod Drain
01-14-2012, 05:56 PM
Anyone have a link to Roy's post game pc?

WakeDevil
01-14-2012, 05:57 PM
Give me an example in the past 25 years of ACC basketball of players getting injured from fans rushing the court. Now, you could be like one of the IC posters and bring up the Twin Towers. Or you could be like one of the other posters who suggested someone might get stabbed.

Ichabod Drain
01-14-2012, 05:58 PM
N/m found the audios.

http://northcarolina.scout.com/2/1148582.html

AZLA
01-14-2012, 06:00 PM
Exactly. I had no problem with him sending the rest of the team to the locker room, but I thought it was in poor form to go into the locker room himself and leave his 5 walkons on the court.

Seems that Roy is a prophetic lifesaver -- think Minority Report -- where he has already saved numerous starters from being murdered by blood-thirsty FSU or UNLV fans. A secret report just came out that he's instructed his staff to sew in reversal jerseys for his scrub players that resemble away team jerseys; whereby, at the end of any game they lose on the road, the scrubs left on the court to fend for themselves can simply reverse their jerseys and pretend to celebrate the home team's victory by blending in. For their own safety, the scrubs have also been instructed to not reveal their identity for their own survival. They're prepared to continue partying with the home team all weekend while the rest of the team requiring flies back home to the safe and cozy confines of Chapel Hill. The scrubs are being trained in the art of hitch-hiking and petty larceny, while others are asked just to stay at the away school and transfer in. "It wouldn't be like we'd miss them anyhow, I don't even know their names to be honest," Coach Williams said.

weezie
01-14-2012, 06:00 PM
Give me an example in the past 25 years of ACC basketball of players getting injured from fans rushing the court. Now, you could be like one of the IC posters and bring up the Twin Towers. Or you could be like one of the other posters who suggested someone might get stabbed.

haahaha Or, you could defiantly ask if your fellow dopey posters on Ic would prefer having D'OH!!! back as coach!
And then you could gather your belongings, your ugly purse and shoes, and storm off...

burnspbesq
01-14-2012, 06:04 PM
Harvard won big.

Stanford won big.

E.J. Singler vs. Zona (Ducks held on to win by two): 12 points, four rebounds, seven assists.

TruBlu
01-14-2012, 06:04 PM
I don[t like pulling the starters and bench players off the court. You win as a team, and you lose as a team, and you should leave the court as a team. What message does it give the scrubs that are left on the court? Hey good luck guys! Well be on the bus if you can make it out alive!!!

Having said that, I think it should be a major penalty imposed to the team who's fans storm the floor, it is dangerous and the powers to be should stop it.

Completely agree about the penalty for storming the court! Perhaps, they should make the fans wait a few minutes to storm the court, so that some decals can be put down on the entire floor so that the idiot fans can break a few of their ankles and blow out a knee.

NashvilleDevil
01-14-2012, 06:05 PM
I think Roy pulled the team knowing that is what everyone would be talking about and not how bad the Noles trounced them.

jv001
01-14-2012, 06:07 PM
I think Roy pulled the team knowing that is what everyone would be talking about and not how bad the Noles trounced them.
I started to say, " it's not working" but then I guess it is on this site. How bout them Noles. GoDuke!

phaedrus
01-14-2012, 06:09 PM
I have mixed feelings. They eclipsed 82-50 by one point.

Nah, I feel great.

OZZIE4DUKE
01-14-2012, 06:28 PM
I have mixed feelings. They eclipsed 82-50 by one point.

Nah, I feel great.

Schadenfreude is a wonderful thing!

Two observations, after watching the game:

2. Roy is menthally unstable. Perhaps less objective than the previous observation, but I stand by it.

Nice win by the 'Noles. Nice fold by the Heels.
OPK - has Roy taken up smoking Dean's cigarettes, or have you developed a lisp? :cool:

Give me an example in the past 25 years of ACC basketball of players getting injured from fans rushing the court. Now, you could be like one of the IC posters and bring up the Twin Towers. Or you could be like one of the other posters who suggested someone might get stabbed.
Roy obviously thought he was playing at Maryland. That's the only proven "dangerous to players, players' parents and opposing fans" venue that I know of in the ACC.

OZZIE4DUKE
01-14-2012, 06:31 PM
The 'Noles sent carolina to hell today! Good job, guys! :cool:

tendev
01-14-2012, 06:33 PM
I thought they would keep it under 30 today ... with Roy at the helm.

I bet at the Dean Dome they will cut it to at least 15.

ArkieDukie
01-14-2012, 06:37 PM
Seems that Roy is a prophetic lifesaver -- think Minority Report -- where he has already saved numerous starters from being murdered by blood-thirsty FSU or UNLV fans. A secret report just came out that he's instructed his staff to sew in reversal jerseys for his scrub players that resemble away team jerseys; whereby, at the end of any game they lose on the road, the scrubs left on the court to fend for themselves can simply reverse their jerseys and pretend to celebrate the home team's victory by blending in. For their own safety, the scrubs have also been instructed to not reveal their identity for their own survival. They're prepared to continue partying with the home team all weekend while the rest of the team requiring flies back home to the safe and cozy confines of Chapel Hill. The scrubs are being trained in the art of hitch-hiking and petty larceny, while others are asked just to stay at the away school and transfer in. "It wouldn't be like we'd miss them anyhow, I don't even know their names to be honest," Coach Williams said.

His starters should be the one forced to hitch-hike back to Chapel Hill - that is, assuming they were actually in Tallahassee for the game. I'm not sure I saw them.

DukeBlueHeart4
01-14-2012, 06:40 PM
I have a name for what just occurred. I will be calling it the Tallahassacre.

My only wish is that it doesn't happen to us...

-bdbd
01-14-2012, 06:48 PM
Wow! Just wow!

I missed the game. Was there a particular startegy that FSU employed that showed success vs NC@ch or was it just a plain "bad showing" by the boys in faded blue?

Just want to know if there's anythinbg here WE can use...

OldPhiKap
01-14-2012, 06:53 PM
Wow! Just wow!

I missed the game. Was there a particular startegy that FSU employed that showed success vs NC@ch or was it just a plain "bad showing" by the boys in faded blue?

Just want to know if there's anythinbg here WE can use...

Kind of like us @ tOSU -- the 'Noles just had more engergy, more hustle, and took it to the Heels in about every way possible.

gumbomoop
01-14-2012, 07:00 PM
The only Heel who played well was Zeller, whose D is impressive. He seemed to be trying, but all the others were way behind. Worst game I can remember for Marshall.

Barnes - I remember one impressive dribble-drive fairly late in the 2d half; it surprised me, because his handle had been poor the whole game. His handle is, at best, inconsistent, still biggest weakness in his game. Today he looked like his teammates: lethargic, unfocused, uninterested.

CDu
01-14-2012, 07:05 PM
wow. Roy just took his guys to the locker room before the game is over.

That was apparently at Leonard Hamilton's suggestion.

Edit: Nevermind. I guess that is just the announcers' take, not reality.

FerryFor50
01-14-2012, 07:22 PM
Yet another example of two things:

1) Roy Williams is classless. I've always subscribed to the notion that you're only as classy as your behavior in defeat. Roy always says and does the right things when they win, but when they lose, he shows his true colors.

2) Roy Williams is a *bad* coach. Never makes good in-game adjustments. Just trots out the talent and expects them to win the games for him. Terrible clock manager. Throws his players under the bus, whether verbally or by leaving them in a situation he deems dangerous enough to avoid himself. Never takes the blame for losses. Makes a ton of excuses. When your best tactic as a coach is to pull your 5 starters all at once, you're probably in need of different tactics. 30 point drubbings couldn't happen to a better set of players and coaches.

Indoor66
01-14-2012, 07:23 PM
For many years, under dean smith, carolina ran off the court at the buzzer - never staying to greet the other team. This only changed when the League required teams to greet each other after the game - as is now the usual procedure after every game.

oldnavy
01-14-2012, 07:26 PM
Two observations, after watching the game:

1. Road games are tough, and FSU is really tough at home. They played extremely well.

2. Roy is menthally unstable. Perhaps less objective than the previous observation, but I stand by it.Nice win by the 'Noles. Nice fold by the Heels.

Dude, I've been saying that for years!! Roy is all about Roy and he cannot make in-game changes. I do not remember him taking a timeout at any point during FSU's run out. He did sub in 4 players at one point but never went to a zone or box in one on Dulkys or anything that resembles coaching during this blow out.

OZZIE4DUKE
01-14-2012, 07:35 PM
2) Roy Williams is a *bad* coach. Never takes the blame for losses. Makes a ton of excuses.
Not today. In the post game presser he said this loss was entirely on him (and the coaches, but them emphasized himself) and it was the worst job of coaching and preparing a team he has ever done. He had no answers on the bench today. He happens to be right.

oldnavy
01-14-2012, 07:51 PM
Not today. In the post game presser he said this loss was entirely on him (and the coaches, but them emphasized himself) and it was the worst job of coaching and preparing a team he has ever done. He had no answers on the bench today. He happens to be right.

Today? When has he EVER had an answer from the bench???

OldPhiKap
01-14-2012, 07:56 PM
Today? When has he EVER had an answer from the bench???

Wasn't it this time last year when he was castigating his team, something about going to 38 practices and not knowing what to do?

How about 20+ years on the bench?!?

millerecu
01-14-2012, 08:02 PM
I thought he would at least give us a level headed excuse of why carowina loss today.....or at least telling us what's wrong with Duke's players.

Guess he is busy counting to 33.

jipops
01-14-2012, 08:48 PM
I thought he would at least give us a level headed excuse of why carowina loss today.....or at least telling us what's wrong with Duke's players.

Guess he is busy counting to 33.

Probably still tallying the number of back-to-the-basket plays UNC had tonight - irrespective of what the outcome of the game was.

Regarding Dulkys, wasn't he Harrison Barnes' defensive assignment?

SupaDave
01-14-2012, 08:56 PM
Well folks keep mentioning that K "did" it too.

Take a look at THIS video and you'll see that it was a much different atmosphere and a MUCH more charged audience.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KQnkY9_Jnw

Also, take a note of the referee running for his life. LOL!

It would be hard to say FSU doesn't have a history...

Oh yeah - still somehow no players were harmed in this "mayhem"...

grossbus
01-14-2012, 09:01 PM
"Regarding Dulkys, wasn't he Harrison Barnes' defensive assignment?"

Is this true?

Newton_14
01-14-2012, 09:12 PM
"Regarding Dulkys, wasn't he Harrison Barnes' defensive assignment?"

Is this true?

Yes, each defended the other when both were in. Fun to watch.

dukeballboy88
01-14-2012, 09:17 PM
The best part of the entire game was the FSU fans chanting oooooooooverrated!

magjayran
01-14-2012, 09:17 PM
IC Quotes:

"I'm sorry... I was wrong..I thought HB was the best player in America...I recant that now... Potential means nothing... proof does...sorry HB"
"Justin Watts is our only hope now."
"hey what channel are the NFL playoffs on?"
"I think FSU deserves some credit"
"Blue Steel should start the next game."
"I don't blame Henson for getting that technical. The refs are making up calls now. Every time Carolina brushes the F$U player they call a foul, then Barnes gets pushed EVERY TIME HE GOES TO THE BASKET, and nothing is called.

And Vitale wants to say that Carolina is embarrassing. FU VITALE! YOU ARE AN EMBARRASSMENT TO THE HUMAN RACE!!!!"
"I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. beats florida state by 20....they have intensity"
"Wow, how did we get 8 points this half"
"This team is the softest Carolina team I've EVER seen...... They cone out flat with no emotion way too much..... Me thinks alot of it is on ole Roy...... It's pathetic and embarrassing ..... I think this team thinks it's better than what it is .... And if u thank about it they haven't done anything ..... And they never will unless they learn to show up EVERY ******* game ...."
"Somewhere Larry Drew is snickering..."

roywhite
01-14-2012, 09:28 PM
Don't want to generalize too much after a stunning loss like this, but I do think a couple things are true:

1. If Kendall Marshall does not play well, the Heels are in trouble
2. When the Heels are in trouble, Ole Roy is no master at figuring out what to do

devildeac
01-14-2012, 09:36 PM
I will give someone massive moderator pitchfork points if they go over to IC and compile a list of the best quotes.

Thanks!

-Jason

I'll start at least:

Screw each and every person on and off this message board for criticism of the legendary Hall of Fame coach Roy Williams.

It's really easy for folks to set back and judge the poor guy for doing what he thought was right, but those people never had a seething raging half drunk hoard of lunatics breathing down their necks ready to pounce.

I cannot for the life of me believe people want to make a controversy out of this. JUST PATHETIC!

And, from a moderator (sheesh, this one actually makes sense-must be one of our mods moonlighting for a few extra $$ down the road [kidding folks, kidding]):

This board was rather great in keeping their cool during a frustrating game, only one bannable offense.

Please keep it up in the post game discussion. Feel free to vent, but don't get personal with each other.

Once again, thank you for keeping it relatively civil.

Wheat/"/"/"
01-14-2012, 09:38 PM
I'm here...on my phone. Won't be around a computer for a week. I feel so special to be so missed.

saw 3/4 ...missed last 10 minutes.
nutshell....fsu really good. Unc worse than bad.totally whipped Unc mentally.
No leadership from supposedly the best player, barnes.
Lost their confidence and got spanked.
not a bad team,just a bad loss. Not the end of the season.

Wish I did have time and means to comment, but can't be done this week.

DUKIE V(A)
01-14-2012, 09:44 PM
We need to hold serve to take advantage...No cupcake tomorrow...

FSU, GT, UVA, etc. have all served notice that even though the ACC is down, winning league games ain't easy...

UrinalCake
01-14-2012, 10:12 PM
As far as leaving the walkons in... the only reasonable explanation I can think of is that if Roy was worried that an FSU fan would do something like punch or shove one of his players, then you could say that the fan would be much less likely to do that to a UNC walkon. Crowd storming inherently has the potential for problems... ideally there would be a way to prevent the crowd from storming for a minute or two to let the players off the court. I don't really know how you do that though, it's not like security can use tasers or batons on people.

Dr. Rosenrosen
01-14-2012, 10:19 PM
Don't want to generalize too much after a stunning loss like this, but I do think a couple things are true:

1. If Kendall Marshall does not play well, the Heels are in trouble
2. When the Heels are in trouble, Ole Roy is no master at figuring out what to do

I hardly recall him using timeouts to try to break the momentum, switch things up, nothing. He just sat and stared. And I enjoyed every minute of it. :D

devildeac
01-14-2012, 10:28 PM
I will give someone massive moderator pitchfork points if they go over to IC and compile a list of the best quotes.

Thanks!

-Jason

The middle one from this set is kinda funny:

Zeller was great. It was easy to tell since he was the only one who played like he gave a crap.

Marshall looked like Larry Drew out there. Stillman White should have played the last 10 mins.

PJ Hairston might be the most trigger happy shooter I've ever seen. Dude, learn to pass the ball.

cptnflash
01-14-2012, 10:49 PM
I will give someone massive moderator pitchfork points if they go over to IC and compile a list of the best quotes.

Thanks!

-Jason

One of the threads on IC is entitled "Things better than our 3pt defense." Some of the responses include:

Root Canals
My ability to breathe fire. Underwater.
Being related to Billy Packer
Duke football
Prison sex. In a zoo prison. Full of gorillas.
Yugo reliability
Lindsay Lohan's Gyno Report
Not this thread
A kick in the nuts
Rosie O'Donnell in a thong
Rick Perry's debating skills
The US economy
Viral Meningitis
Howard the Duck, Gigli and Battlefield Earth marathon
Roseanne Barr's national anthem
Steve Bartman
Shelley Long's post-"Cheers" career
Marv Albert's toupee
Lice
"Ishtar"
The '62 Mets
New Coke
Brussel sprouts
Florida state's offense
Larry drew's ball handling and passing
Lebron James' finals performance
BofA's debit card fees
The Black Plague
Gingivitis

And the best one of all...

We play D?

Reilly
01-14-2012, 11:25 PM
A UNC coach leaving a game early .... ah yes, I remember the 1991 Final Four well ....

Devilsfan
01-14-2012, 11:27 PM
Maybe someone took the points and made a bundle. I call for a congressional investigation! At any rate my only regret is that it's not late March.

OldPhiKap
01-14-2012, 11:35 PM
One of the threads on IC is entitled "Things better than our 3pt defense." Some of the responses include:

Root Canals
My ability to breathe fire. Underwater.
Being related to Billy Packer
Duke football
Prison sex. In a zoo prison. Full of gorillas.
Yugo reliability
Lindsay Lohan's Gyno Report
Not this thread
A kick in the nuts
Rosie O'Donnell in a thong
Rick Perry's debating skills
The US economy
Viral Meningitis
Howard the Duck, Gigli and Battlefield Earth marathon
Roseanne Barr's national anthem
Steve Bartman
Shelley Long's post-"Cheers" career
Marv Albert's toupee
Lice
"Ishtar"
The '62 Mets
New Coke
Brussel sprouts
Florida state's offense
Larry drew's ball handling and passing
Lebron James' finals performance
BofA's debit card fees
The Black Plague
Gingivitis

And the best one of all...

We play D?

I like brussel sprouts.

magjayran
01-15-2012, 12:47 AM
I like brussel sprouts.

I like the way UNC defends the three

guybrush
01-15-2012, 04:59 AM
http://www.dailybasket.it/ncaa/il-lituano-dulkys-distrugge-north-carolina-33-contro-fsu/

even in Italy they're talking about this huge loss

mpj96
01-15-2012, 07:18 AM
I missed the game live, but found it on the espn IPad app. Expected just a highlight and got the entire game. So nice...

DevilWearsPrada
01-15-2012, 08:57 AM
I will give someone massive moderator pitchfork points if they go over to IC and compile a list of the best quotes.

Thanks!

-Jason



Maybe staying at home for 42 days and playing every Jr College you can find to rack up easy 30 point wins, wasn't such a good idea Roy???? (I really liked that one!)

Roy Williams is a 2nd rate coach with a 1st class team. I've said it for years he couldn't coach this game today. Proved it!

There is seriously something wrong with the Heels team. I can see on the surface they are immature and lack sand. To lose by 33 points by an average team ---the ship is sinking!!!

I think Williams removed the team to make a statement . Ya'll sucked today!

UNC ROSTER 5 walk ons, and 11 WALK OFFS ! (I Love that one, too!)

OZZIE4DUKE
01-15-2012, 09:07 AM
One of the threads on IC is entitled "Things better than our 3pt defense." Some of the responses include:

Root Canals
My ability to breathe fire. Underwater.
Being related to Billy Packer
Duke football
Prison sex. In a zoo prison. Full of gorillas.
Yugo reliability
Lindsay Lohan's Gyno Report
Not this thread
A kick in the nuts
Rosie O'Donnell in a thong
Rick Perry's debating skills
The US economy
Viral Meningitis
Howard the Duck, Gigli and Battlefield Earth marathon
Roseanne Barr's national anthem
Steve Bartman
Shelley Long's post-"Cheers" career
Marv Albert's toupee
Lice
"Ishtar"
The '62 Mets
New Coke
Brussel sprouts
Florida state's offense
Larry drew's ball handling and passing
Lebron James' finals performance
BofA's debit card fees
The Black Plague
Gingivitis

And the best one of all...

We play D?
Ding ding ding! We have a winner! :cool:

I like a couple that DevilWearsPrada posted too, especially the line about having 5 walk-ons and 11 walk-offs!

Kdogg
01-15-2012, 09:26 AM
As far as leaving the walkons in... the only reasonable explanation I can think of is that if Roy was worried that an FSU fan would do something like punch or shove one of his players, then you could say that the fan would be much less likely to do that to a UNC walkon. Crowd storming inherently has the potential for problems... ideally there would be a way to prevent the crowd from storming for a minute or two to let the players off the court. I don't really know how you do that though, it's not like security can use tasers or batons on people.

I don't think any rational observer has a problem with sending the players to the locker room. The issue is that the coaching staff also left before the end of the game. At best it sends a mixed message to the players, recruits and fans.

ArkieDukie
01-15-2012, 09:31 AM
I don't think any rational observer has a problem with sending the players to the locker room. The issue is that the coaching staff also left before the end of the game. At best it sends a mixed message to the players, recruits and fans.

If Roy REALLY wanted to send a message, he should've put the starters back in before the mass exodus to the locker room.

MChambers
01-15-2012, 09:37 AM
I hardly recall him using timeouts to try to break the momentum, switch things up, nothing. He just sat and stared. And I enjoyed every minute of it. :D
Did Ol' Roy manage to save all his timeouts for the final minutes?

Indoor66
01-15-2012, 09:55 AM
Did Ol' Roy manage to save all his timeouts for the final minutes?

Nah. He was down to his last three, IRRC.

ChicagoHeel
01-15-2012, 09:56 AM
I will keep my comments to the game. I find the gleeful plucking of negative comments from ICC off-putting, but this is obviously a Duke board and if you get your kicks that way, then have at it.

It's a little hard to make sense of this game as I'm still in a state of shock. My biggest concern going forward is that it was such a beat-down it will lower the team's confidence and disrupt the chemistry to a point from which it is hard to recover. We'll know shortly as we see how we bounce back in our next few games.

I'll start with the obvious, which is that FSU played out of their minds in terms of passion, focus, ball movement, and shooting. THey deserve credit for a tremendous game. It definitely had the feeling of a revenge game- we've dealt them some tough losses over the last few years and those memories seemed to feed their fire.

As for us, we lost the game in what has been a typical fashion over the last couple of years- we were soft the first five minutes and allowed the other team to get hot and confident. It was something that bedeviled us last year and earlier this year. In a lot of games last year we had to dig out of a big hole, which we usually did so the issue did not get as much discussion as it might have otherwise. I thought we'd fixed it recently, but apparently not. If I had the answer to that problem, I'd be on the phone with Roy, not here.

We played like a team that is both inexperienced and feeling the weight of the lofty expectations (justifiably) placed upon it. Our team is not that young, but Barnes, Marshall, Bullock, and Hairston are and they looked like it. Lack of concentration led to a loss of poise led to a nightmare second half. Henson was the most disappointing in terms of lost poise, his punk move that got the T was just awful (and roundly criticized on ICC). No excuse for that, especially from a junior.

As bad as the D was in this game, and it was bad, it was our offense that killed us. We had 12 TOs in the first half and took a lot of bad shots. The second half was more of the same, with a lot of one-on-one. Overall, we showed very little patience. I really think that if we could have gotten the O going, especially in the second part of the first half, our D would have been sharper and it would have been an entirely different outcome.

Why was our O bad? Of course, FSU's defense is a major explanation. Also, two weaknesses have crept into our offense over the last several games. One, our outside shooting has dropped off a cliff. PJ is shooting horribly and Bullock is barely better- some of it is shot selection, but a lot is just missing open shots within our offense. Marshall just has not shown that he has improved in that department and continues to miss threes that are wide open. Barnes has also had a bad couple of games. We have a starting backcourt that doesn't score much- and rarely will- so we NEED outside shooting to keep the middle from being packed.

The second is that Henson has moved away from his inside game- perhaps because he doesn't like the contact and perhaps because his foul shooting problems are in the back of his mind. He's taking way too many long jumpers, which he is missing and then not in a position to rebound. Henson gets back inside and our wings start shooting better and we will right the ship quickly. Big "ifs" but not unreasonable to expect.

In terms of the D....yuck. When they showed a replay of the threes made by FSU, it almost always seemed to be one of our big wings- PJ and Barnes were the worst culprits. They were a step slow and making modest effort to fight through screens. This is an issue that can be fixed, but I cannot figure out why it pops up as often as it does. I thought Henson allowed too many offensive rebounds too. The physical nature of FSU really seemed to bother him.

I feel like I can explain the loss, what continues to baffle (and worry) me is why a loss turned into the worst of Roy's career. Great teams lose games they shouldn't, but do they get curb-stomped like that? Ugh.

alteran
01-15-2012, 09:57 AM
I thought he would at least give us a level headed excuse of why carowina loss today.....or at least telling us what's wrong with Duke's players.


Maybe he was afraid we'd rush the board. :D

(Just kidding Wheat-- that was a shot at Roy, not you!)

ArkieDukie
01-15-2012, 10:14 AM
I will keep my comments to the game. I find the gleeful plucking of negative comments from ICC off-putting, but this is obviously a Duke board and if you get your kicks that way, then have at it.

It's a little hard to make sense of this game as I'm still in a state of shock. My biggest concern going forward is that it was such a beat-down it will lower the team's confidence and disrupt the chemistry to a point from which it is hard to recover. We'll know shortly as we see how we bounce back in our next few games.

I'll start with the obvious, which is that FSU played out of their minds in terms of passion, focus, ball movement, and shooting. THey deserve credit for a tremendous game. It definitely had the feeling of a revenge game- we've dealt them some tough losses over the last few years and those memories seemed to feed their fire.

As for us, we lost the game in what has been a typical fashion over the last couple of years- we were soft the first five minutes and allowed the other team to get hot and confident. It was something that bedeviled us last year and earlier this year. In a lot of games last year we had to dig out of a big hole, which we usually did so the issue did not get as much discussion as it might have otherwise. I thought we'd fixed it recently, but apparently not. If I had the answer to that problem, I'd be on the phone with Roy, not here.

We played like a team that is both inexperienced and feeling the weight of the lofty expectations (justifiably) placed upon it. Our team is not that young, but Barnes, Marshall, Bullock, and Hairston are and they looked like it. Lack of concentration led to a loss of poise led to a nightmare second half. Henson was the most disappointing in terms of lost poise, his punk move that got the T was just awful (and roundly criticized on ICC). No excuse for that, especially from a junior.

As bad as the D was in this game, and it was bad, it was our offense that killed us. We had 12 TOs in the first half and took a lot of bad shots. The second half was more of the same, with a lot of one-on-one. Overall, we showed very little patience. I really think that if we could have gotten the O going, especially in the second part of the first half, our D would have been sharper and it would have been an entirely different outcome.

Why was our O bad? Of course, FSU's defense is a major explanation. Also, two weaknesses have crept into our offense over the last several games. One, our outside shooting has dropped off a cliff. PJ is shooting horribly and Bullock is barely better- some of it is shot selection, but a lot is just missing open shots within our offense. Marshall just has not shown that he has improved in that department and continues to miss threes that are wide open. Barnes has also had a bad couple of games. We have a starting backcourt that doesn't score much- and rarely will- so we NEED outside shooting to keep the middle from being packed.

The second is that Henson has moved away from his inside game- perhaps because he doesn't like the contact and perhaps because his foul shooting problems are in the back of his mind. He's taking way too many long jumpers, which he is missing and then not in a position to rebound. Henson gets back inside and our wings start shooting better and we will right the ship quickly. Big "ifs" but not unreasonable to expect.

In terms of the D....yuck. When they showed a replay of the threes made by FSU, it almost always seemed to be one of our big wings- PJ and Barnes were the worst culprits. They were a step slow and making modest effort to fight through screens. This is an issue that can be fixed, but I cannot figure out why it pops up as often as it does. I thought Henson allowed too many offensive rebounds too. The physical nature of FSU really seemed to bother him.

I feel like I can explain the loss, what continues to baffle (and worry) me is why a loss turned into the worst of Roy's career. Great teams lose games they shouldn't, but do they get curb-stomped like that? Ugh.

Good synopsis of the game, ChicagoHeel. It definitely wasn't the game I expected to see for many of the reasons you mentioned. This effort reminded me a bit of the team from 2 (iirc) years ago, where players and coaches alike seemed to give up. Zeller brought it, but did anyone else? IMHO, their next game is pivotal. Will they sink or will they swim? Roy Williams' response to the game could be the key here. How will his team respond to the fact that he walked out of the arena before the end of the game and left his walk-ons to finish the game alone? How will they respond to the fact that he reportedly left the locker room without saying anything? Either it makes them mad enough to pick it up a notch or two, or he completely lost them for the rest of the season.

Mr.Analogy
01-15-2012, 10:15 AM
I recall a shirt that the tarhole faithful wore a few years back that asked "Got Roy?"....I would love to have one now that said "No, we have a coach that doesn't run and hide, thanks anyway....oh and 903+"

Go Duke!!!!!

DUKIE V(A)
01-15-2012, 10:24 AM
Hey good luck guys! Well be on the bus if you can make it out alive!!!

Classic!

DUKIE V(A)
01-15-2012, 10:26 AM
Then again, the way some of these Carolina parents drink the light blue Kool-Aid, some of them would probably consider it their family's proudest moment for little Joey to lay down his life under the rush of FSU students if it allows Henson or Barnes to make it to the locker room in safety...

You guys have to stop...you're making me cramp up I'm laughing so hard.

roywhite
01-15-2012, 10:36 AM
We played like a team that is both inexperienced and feeling the weight of the lofty expectations (justifiably) placed upon it. Our team is not that young, but Barnes, Marshall, Bullock, and Hairston are and they looked like it. Lack of concentration led to a loss of poise led to a nightmare second half. Henson was the most disappointing in terms of lost poise, his punk move that got the T was just awful (and roundly criticized on ICC). No excuse for that, especially from a junior.

I feel like I can explain the loss, what continues to baffle (and worry) me is why a loss turned into the worst of Roy's career. Great teams lose games they shouldn't, but do they get curb-stomped like that? Ugh.

Reasonable comments overall, but I'll take issue with the "young" tag especially for Marshall and Barnes. Both are midway through their sophomore season and have played a lot. Barnes especially has been mentioned as a potential high draft choice when he comes out, and likely would have been a high choice last year. I can't imagine that why we would call Kyrie Irving "young" in an ACC basketball sense if he had come back to play this year.

Bad games happen, and this may prove to be an aberration. As I have mentioned previously, a bad game by Marshall is really bad news for the Heels; he's so important to what they do offensively, and does not have an adequate sub.

wilko
01-15-2012, 10:37 AM
This thread is alot of fun.
I do so enjoy the misery of the Hole faithful.
My only regret is that Duke did not administer the "woodshed" to them, but nonetheless it is a delicious treat.

ArkieDukie
01-15-2012, 10:58 AM
Did Leonard Hamilton run up the score just a bit? Was it really necessary to leave the starters in with a 30 pt lead and 5 min to play? Dulkys was in the game right up to the bitter end. He was pulled with what, 1-2 min left in the game? I can't remember for sure, but it seems like Roy pulled his starters way before Hamilton did. Granted, I enjoyed the score because of the recipients of the smackdown, but I think we'd all be a bit offended if our team was in the same boat. Winning a game by a large margin is one thing, winning with your starters playing against the other team's scrubs is another matter altogether.

I'm just trying to be fair here; I'd love to hear your thoughts. Am I remembering correctly?

Matches
01-15-2012, 11:25 AM
I will keep my comments to the game. I find the gleeful plucking of negative comments from ICC off-putting, but this is obviously a Duke board and if you get your kicks that way, then have at it.



I think the best thing Roy can do is burn the game tape and just roll the ball back out. Even taking into account the various UNC weaknesses, this game is a pretty clear outlier. I'm not sure it even has value as a teaching loss. Just mothball it and move on.

elvis14
01-15-2012, 11:29 AM
I think the best thing Roy can do is burn the game tape and just roll the ball back out. Even taking into account the various UNC weaknesses, this game is a pretty clear outlier. I'm not sure it even has value as a teaching loss. Just mothball it and move on.

I think Roy and all the players should watch the game over and over and ESPN Classic should run it over and over again for the next week or so. The scoreboard and highlights should be shown as the intro for ACC broadcasts and should be shown every time they go to commercial and come back.

moonpie23
01-15-2012, 11:30 AM
Was it really necessary to leave the starters in with a 30 pt lead and 5 min to play?


yes, holes are known for their comebacks....they can't be trusted to stay down...

BluDvlsN1
01-15-2012, 11:58 AM
As for us, we lost the game in what has been a typical fashion over the last couple of years- we were soft the first five minutes and allowed the other team to get hot and confident. It was something that bedeviled us last year and earlier this year. In a lot of games last year we had to dig out of a big hole, which we usually did so the issue did not get as much discussion as it might have otherwise. I thought we'd fixed it recently, but apparently not. If I had the answer to that problem, I'd be on the phone with Roy, not here.

I feel like I can explain the loss, what continues to baffle (and worry) me is why a loss turned into the worst of Roy's career. Great teams lose games they shouldn't, but do they get curb-stomped like that? Ugh.

In my opinion fair and balanced observations, good post!

I'll just give my thoughts on the partial excerpts above!
I have believed for years that RW should be thankful he ever met Dean and has been in the positions he has been in,2 historical basketball powerhouses with awesome traditions! That said, he has been the beneficiary of having his door beat down with a talent pool to die for!

It's one thing to lose even lose big, it happens! It's a whole other matter when a talented team plays without passion,that's coaching, when time outs DO get called and the results are not positive, that's coaching, when you have a halftime to adjust AND DON'T that coaching, quite honestly that team deserves more a lot more!

DevilWearsPrada said:
Roy Williams is a 2nd rate coach with a 1st class team. I've said it for years he couldn't coach this game today. Proved it!

That is not a personal indictment against RW only his inability to inspire his team and make mid stream adjustments! So a call from you or anyone would be fruitless cause I don't think he can adjust, in my opinion!


I have read the complete thread and have to admit (not so privately), that I found the comments from the IC board to be hilarious on two fronts :
1. I'm a DUKIE
2. i appreciate self deprecating humor, always have!

devil84
01-15-2012, 12:00 PM
Did Leonard Hamilton run up the score just a bit? Was it really necessary to leave the starters in with a 30 pt lead and 5 min to play? Dulkys was in the game right up to the bitter end. He was pulled with what, 1-2 min left in the game? I can't remember for sure, but it seems like Roy pulled his starters way before Hamilton did. Granted, I enjoyed the score because of the recipients of the smackdown, but I think we'd all be a bit offended if our team was in the same boat. Winning a game by a large margin is one thing, winning with your starters playing against the other team's scrubs is another matter altogether.

I'm just trying to be fair here; I'd love to hear your thoughts. Am I remembering correctly?

I don't begrudge Hamilton leaving his starters in until close to the very end. There are some legitimate reasons for doing so. Anyone remember "Gone in :54" or "Gone in :17?" In the ACC, I don't think leads are safe until the buzzer sounds and the officials have left the floor, particularly if playing UNC or Duke.

Another reason would be that Hamilton wants the players having career games to stay in and reinforce that kind of play. Hamilton is coaching for the entire season, not just one game, so if you've got players that are playing incredibly well, leave them in so that their current style of play can become a habit.

There's something to be said for having a full home crowd at the end of the game to celebrate a major accomplishment. To go through the handshake line and run to the locker room with a full crowd cheering (or, in this case, a court storming after most of the visiting team leaves) is pretty nice! Put in the scrubs too early and everyone leaves. Cameron suffers from this a lot -- people leave at the under 4:00 timeout in droves, and sometimes at the under 8:00 as well. The UVA game was kind of nice that the players and coaches could exit the court with a full house cheering.

I'd also think that Hamilton would like the home crowd to see their players playing well, so they come back for more games, not just Carolina and Duke.

And FSU is the underdog, here. If the teams were relatively evenly matched (say, both unranked with vaguely similar RPIs or both top 10) or if the underdog is way ahead, I don't really have a problem with coaching until the end of the game. If a top 10 team is drubbing a weak opponent, then I think it's time for the coach to work on other in-game strategies or develop some of the bench to keep from running up the score.

allenmurray
01-15-2012, 12:29 PM
Did Leonard Hamilton run up the score just a bit? Was it really necessary to leave the starters in with a 30 pt lead and 5 min to play? Dulkys was in the game right up to the bitter end. He was pulled with what, 1-2 min left in the game? I can't remember for sure, but it seems like Roy pulled his starters way before Hamilton did. Granted, I enjoyed the score because of the recipients of the smackdown, but I think we'd all be a bit offended if our team was in the same boat. Winning a game by a large margin is one thing, winning with your starters playing against the other team's scrubs is another matter altogether.

I'm just trying to be fair here; I'd love to hear your thoughts. Am I remembering correctly?

Because an unranked team should show some sympathy to a top 5 team with multiple national championships and a NOPY candidate? If the roles were reversed (UNC led by 30+ points) I'd say they should have pulled their starters, but FSU was an unranked team and a heavy underdog going in.

DevilWearsPrada
01-15-2012, 01:31 PM
New York Times has a new Bestseller. Its called LEFT BEHIND..... a Novel by Roy Williams.

:)

El_Diablo
01-15-2012, 01:35 PM
Did Leonard Hamilton run up the score just a bit? Was it really necessary to leave the starters in with a 30 pt lead and 5 min to play? Dulkys was in the game right up to the bitter end. He was pulled with what, 1-2 min left in the game? I can't remember for sure, but it seems like Roy pulled his starters way before Hamilton did. Granted, I enjoyed the score because of the recipients of the smackdown, but I think we'd all be a bit offended if our team was in the same boat. Winning a game by a large margin is one thing, winning with your starters playing against the other team's scrubs is another matter altogether.

I'm just trying to be fair here; I'd love to hear your thoughts. Am I remembering correctly?

We actually have been in the same boat because OSU just did the same thing to us (keeping the starters in long after the outcome was in doubt). If you'll recall, Sullinger played 37 minutes, Craft played 38 minutes, and Buford played 39 minutes in that game. And they were the #2 team in the country at the time.

OldPhiKap
01-15-2012, 01:42 PM
It depends in part on whether the starters are out there in full attack mode, or if they are practicing the stall ball. We keep our starters in a long time (often criticized for it by IC) but we run the high-post extended to milk clock and get a good shot at the end. That is something you need to practice in real game situations.

I wonder what the starting line-up will be against VT. . . .

slower
01-15-2012, 01:56 PM
I missed the game live, but found it on the espn IPad app. Expected just a highlight and got the entire game. So nice...

Do you have a link for that? I don't have an Ipad, but I'd LOVE to be able to watch this game online.

ArkieDukie
01-15-2012, 01:56 PM
I don't begrudge Hamilton leaving his starters in until close to the very end. There are some legitimate reasons for doing so. Anyone remember "Gone in :54" or "Gone in :17?" In the ACC, I don't think leads are safe until the buzzer sounds and the officials have left the floor, particularly if playing UNC or Duke.

Another reason would be that Hamilton wants the players having career games to stay in and reinforce that kind of play. Hamilton is coaching for the entire season, not just one game, so if you've got players that are playing incredibly well, leave them in so that their current style of play can become a habit.

There's something to be said for having a full home crowd at the end of the game to celebrate a major accomplishment. To go through the handshake line and run to the locker room with a full crowd cheering (or, in this case, a court storming after most of the visiting team leaves) is pretty nice! Put in the scrubs too early and everyone leaves. Cameron suffers from this a lot -- people leave at the under 4:00 timeout in droves, and sometimes at the under 8:00 as well. The UVA game was kind of nice that the players and coaches could exit the court with a full house cheering.

I'd also think that Hamilton would like the home crowd to see their players playing well, so they come back for more games, not just Carolina and Duke.

And FSU is the underdog, here. If the teams were relatively evenly matched (say, both unranked with vaguely similar RPIs or both top 10) or if the underdog is way ahead, I don't really have a problem with coaching until the end of the game. If a top 10 team is drubbing a weak opponent, then I think it's time for the coach to work on other in-game strategies or develop some of the bench to keep from running up the score.

You raise some very good points. I do like the notion of Hamilton building a program and re-enforcing good play. At the same time, though, wouldn't it be good to see if the bench guys can maintain the same level of play? As badly as the heels were stinking it up yesterday, bless their hearts, I don't think they would've overcome a 30 pt deficit. Could this have been used as a "This is how you do it; show me you can keep your foot on their throats" opportunity?

ArkieDukie
01-15-2012, 01:58 PM
We actually have been in the same boat because OSU just did the same thing to us (keeping the starters in long after the outcome was in doubt). If you'll recall, Sullinger played 37 minutes, Craft played 38 minutes, and Buford played 39 minutes in that game. And they were the #2 team in the country at the time.

I had forgotten that. Guess I've blocked that game from my mind. PTSD, you know.

ArkieDukie
01-15-2012, 02:00 PM
It depends in part on whether the starters are out there in full attack mode, or if they are practicing the stall ball. We keep our starters in a long time (often criticized for it by IC) but we run the high-post extended to milk clock and get a good shot at the end. That is something you need to practice in real game situations.

I wonder what the starting line-up will be against VT. . . .

Very good point, as always, OPK. I hadn't thought about stall ball practice.

OZZIE4DUKE
01-15-2012, 02:13 PM
2270

Son of Mojo
01-15-2012, 02:39 PM
2270

Good God, that's fantastic!!

FerryFor50
01-15-2012, 02:45 PM
2271

SMO
01-15-2012, 02:54 PM
2271

Even better!

kmspeaks
01-15-2012, 03:29 PM
My idea is to disallow the win in the conference standings. It's not a forfeit, but it affects your seeding, and possibly whether you have to play on Thursday, in the tournament.

That would be typical NCAA fashion, punish the kids who had nothing to do with the undesired action. I like the SEC system of fines. Hit the pockets of the administration and give them the responsibility of finding ways to keep the students off the court.

BDevilU
01-15-2012, 03:48 PM
New York Times has a new Bestseller. Its called LEFT BEHIND..... a Novel by Roy Williams.

:)

Actually it's "LEFT BEHIND -Tallahassee-" Made the book cover pic last night, along with the milk carton.

2272

OldPhiKap
01-15-2012, 04:00 PM
I hear that Roy is playing it safe on Thursday with the game in Blacksburg. He and the starters are staying in Chapel Hill, not even risking the trip. Good luck, Blue Steel and Coach Robinson!

DU82
01-15-2012, 04:04 PM
I hear that Roy is playing it safe on Thursday with the game in Blacksburg. He and the starters are staying in Chapel Hill, not even risking the trip. Good luck, Blue Steel and Coach Robinson!

Seeing how VT is playing, the Smurfs would probably still win.

devildeac
01-15-2012, 04:05 PM
I hear that Roy is playing it safe on Thursday with the game in Blacksburg. He and the starters are staying in Chapel Hill, not even risking the trip. Good luck, Blue Steel and Coach Robinson!

I heard differently and that he's bringing 4 refs instead of the usual trio for additional insurance against a repeat scenario:rolleyes::o.

Kedsy
01-15-2012, 04:17 PM
DevilWearsPrada said:
Roy Williams is a 2nd rate coach with a 1st class team. I've said it for years he couldn't coach this game today. Proved it!

I could be wrong, but I believe DevilWearsPrada was quoting IC and not stating her own opinion there.


IMHO, their next game is pivotal. Will they sink or will they swim?

I disagree. I believe they will go out and play like the top five team they are. The danger for UNC is that teams that get beaten down like this during the season often don't have what it takes to step up in a high pressure tournament setting, when their opponent brings an unexpectedly tough, physical, high octane effort and the team that got clobbered during the season doesn't have it in them to adequately fight back. In 2009, when we got beat down at Clemson, we responded OK (won 11 of our next 14 games) but had an unfortunate relapse against Villanova in the NCAAT. That sort of thing is what UNC has to look out for.

BluDvlsN1
01-15-2012, 04:27 PM
I could be wrong, but I believe DevilWearsPrada was quoting IC and not stating her own opinion there.



Kedsy, i missed it, you are correct..
DevilWearsPrada was in fact pulling info off of IC and I misread and misquoted!!

Thanks for clearing up that point!

Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa!!

burnspbesq
01-15-2012, 04:31 PM
Do you have a link for that? I don't have an Ipad, but I'd LOVE to be able to watch this game online.

Google "Watch ESPN." It's a website, as well as an iOS app (Don't know about Android). Your access may depend on who your cable provider is.

devil84
01-15-2012, 06:02 PM
You raise some very good points. I do like the notion of Hamilton building a program and re-enforcing good play. At the same time, though, wouldn't it be good to see if the bench guys can maintain the same level of play? As badly as the heels were stinking it up yesterday, bless their hearts, I don't think they would've overcome a 30 pt deficit. Could this have been used as a "This is how you do it; show me you can keep your foot on their throats" opportunity?

Yes, seeing if the bench guys can maintain the same level of play is definitely a valid coaching tool. But if I'm a coach and I need to build confidence to take my team to the next level, I'm not letting off the throttle of a huge defeat of a #3 team and conference foe. I'm going to let my guys who built that lead stay out there.

In FSU's case, I'm not sure the focus needs to be bench development when the team has suffered a 20 pt beat down by Clemson the week before and has lost to Princeton, UMass, and Harvard (and Mich St, Florida and UConn, but those are perennial powers). Yes, Harvard is very good this year, but if memory serves, FSU was ranked similarly to Harvard. Getting the huge upset of a ranked team and rival -- that usually will provide more long term benefits for the team than finding out what the bench players can do with five more minutes of playing time.

No, I don't think that Carolina could have overcome a 30 point deficit, but I've been around the ACC long enough to know I'm not even going to give them a chance to do it. If I'm a coach of an ACC school, any time I've got the ability to stretch the lead against Duke or Carolina, I'm going to do it. While there's very little difference between winning by 25 or 33, the ability for an ACC team to beat Duke or Carolina with the largest margin of the game (or very close to it) sticks with the team for a long time. As a coach, I wouldn't want to hear my guys say something like, "We beat 'em by 25, but we were up by far more than that!" I'd want my team to close out strong and finish without any ability to downplay such a powerful win. Elite teams like Carolina and Duke will bounce back after a stinging defeat -- doesn't matter if it's 25 or 33 or whatever. But don't discount how much those extra points could mean for a team that's trying to break into the top 25 and fighting for third in the conference. Likewise, the extra stats for the starters give them extra pride that spills over to the whole team.

I'm sure that FSU will have a few other conference games with large leads where they can develop their bench. Let's hope it's not against us!

MChambers
01-15-2012, 08:18 PM
One of my son's friends here in DC is a UNC fan. He said that yesterday's game was like watching the Wizards play college basketball.

Reilly
01-15-2012, 08:57 PM
I haven't read this whole thread and apologize if this was brought up already .... does Roy's known desire to shoot opposing fans in the butt with a BB gun have anything to do with LHamilton's suggestion to just have him leave ...

OldPhiKap
01-15-2012, 09:19 PM
I haven't read this whole thread and apologize if this was brought up already .... does Roy's known desire to shoot opposing fans in the butt with a BB gun have anything to do with LHamilton's suggestion to just have him leave ...

Roy was distracted, trying to get an FSU fan thrown out of the game for yelling "miss!" when Barnes was on the line.

Newton_14
01-15-2012, 10:42 PM
Just wondered over to IC for a minute. They now have a thread arguing the 3-Point line should be moved back. Too easy. SMH.....Classic

Ichabod Drain
01-16-2012, 08:37 AM
There is a thread calling for the total removal of the three point line from college basketball.

devildeac
01-16-2012, 09:06 AM
There is a thread calling for the total removal of the three point line from college basketball.

That one actually makes sense. One less thing they have to defend.

Oh, wait a minute...

ArkieDukie
01-16-2012, 09:32 AM
That one actually makes sense. One less thing they have to defend.

Oh, wait a minute...

If I could give you sporks, devildeac, I would. That one made me laugh out loud. The FSU game demonstrated, once again, that unc's perimeter defense is weak. Here's hoping that some combination of Dawkins, Curry, Rivers, Cook, and Kelly gets hot from 3 pt range when we play UNC.

devildeac
01-16-2012, 10:22 AM
If I could give you sporks, devildeac, I would. That one made me laugh out loud. The FSU game demonstrated, once again, that unc's perimeter defense is weak. Here's hoping that some combination of Dawkins, Curry, Rivers, Cook, and Kelly gets hot from 3 pt range when we play UNC.
Virtual sporks or spork thoughts and wishes are fine alternatives sometimes :-)). The worry would be then if we weren't hot, then they might scoop up a lot of the misses and get a bunch of "run-outs" and transition points on us as unc is a good rebounding team.

Class of '94
01-16-2012, 10:31 AM
The Raleigh N&O has this article talking about the aftermath of the UNC debacle against Fla St: http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/01/16/1781581/talk-is-all-about-heels-fortitude.html. Carlton Tudor was pretty harsh on the Heels in a related article; but I find it funny that Strickland commented at the end of this article that they never experienced anything this bad before. Vitale commented during the game that this loss had to be the worst performance he's ever seen from Carolina; and Vitale and his play-by-play tv partner were amazed that this game was over early in the second half. seemed to remember a certain 82-50 drubbing 2 years ago in Cameron that was at least as bad as Saturday's loss. In fact, the game was over at half time (I believe Duke had a 20 pt lead by that time); and Duke could've won by 40-50 pts if they had wanted to.

roywhite
01-16-2012, 10:37 AM
The Raleigh N&O has this article talking about the aftermath of the UNC debacle against Fla St: http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/01/16/1781581/talk-is-all-about-heels-fortitude.html. Carlton Tudor was pretty harsh on the Heels in a related article; but I find it funny that Strickland commented at the end of this article that they never experienced anything this bad before. Vitale commented during the game that this loss had to be the worst performance he's ever seen from Carolina; and Vitale and his play-by-play tv partner were amazed that this game was over early in the second half. seemed to remember a certain 82-50 drubbing 2 years ago in Cameron that was at least as bad as Saturday's loss. In fact, the game was over at half time (I believe Duke had a 20 pt lead by that time); and Duke could've won by 40-50 pts if they had wanted to.

Do I recall that Henson "acted out" in that blowout also?
Was it a dunk and totally inappropriate celebration while down by a bunch?

Poise and mental toughness still an issue even as a 3rd year player?

Ichabod Drain
01-16-2012, 10:39 AM
The Raleigh N&O has this article talking about the aftermath of the UNC debacle against Fla St: http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/01/16/1781581/talk-is-all-about-heels-fortitude.html. Carlton Tudor was pretty harsh on the Heels in a related article; but I find it funny that Strickland commented at the end of this article that they never experienced anything this bad before. Vitale commented during the game that this loss had to be the worst performance he's ever seen from Carolina; and Vitale and his play-by-play tv partner were amazed that this game was over early in the second half. seemed to remember a certain 82-50 drubbing 2 years ago in Cameron that was at least as bad as Saturday's loss. In fact, the game was over at half time (I believe Duke had a 20 pt lead by that time); and Duke could've won by 40-50 pts if they had wanted to.

I agree that the Duke loss was on the same level if you keep it out of context. But that loss was by an unranked UNC team to a Duke team that went on to win the national title. This loss was to an unranked FSU team with UNC being the preseason favorites to win a NC. For the talent they have, that was probably the worst performance I've seen by a carolina team.

Mr.Analogy
01-16-2012, 11:35 AM
The 'holes are very quite this morning......and for some reason they are avoiding me.....hmmmmm....did their team get beat or something? Surely not, I mean that's the same team I heard all the talk over them being "unbeatable" or "the best team in the country" or my favorite "best in the acc", not to mention the gazillion praises I heard for the black pigeon. :cool:

Karma.....tarholes.....karma

hurleyfor3
01-16-2012, 12:21 PM
Carlton Tudor was pretty harsh on the Heels in a related article

In the Cauldon Tudor universe, that could mean, "I still fully expect unc to win the national championship, but now only by 24 points instead of 25".

jimsumner
01-16-2012, 12:40 PM
In the Cauldon Tudor universe, that could mean, "I still fully expect unc to win the national championship, but now only by 24 points instead of 25".

Would it be churlish of me to point out that you both misspelled Caulton Tudor's first name?

hurleyfor3
01-16-2012, 12:45 PM
Would it be churlish of me to point out that you both misspelled Caulton Tudor's first name?

Not as churlish as using my mod powers to fix it, I guess.

The original "Carlton" didn't even register with me, hmm ha. Although we do have a time-honored tradition of accepting, and even encouraging, misspellings of non-Duke-affiliated people, especially to attempted comedic effect.

OldPhiKap
01-16-2012, 12:59 PM
Would it be churlish of me to point out that you both misspelled Caulton Tudor's first name?

No, although it would have been churlish of you to suggest that Caulton wrote a letter to the AD decrying Roy's actions and demanding that he be fired.

So don't do it.

oldnavy
01-16-2012, 01:05 PM
I personally think that UNC's problems are very fixable. They have the talent to win the NC and I still expect them to make a deep run. Having said that, however I do think and have said several times in the past that I believe Mr. Barnes is a "problem" for the heels. He is suppossed to be THE MAN on this team, yet his demeanor and effort are not what you would like to see from your "best" player and the player that ALL the media gush over ALL the time. Is it causing a chemistry/resentment problems? I don't know for sure, but it just seems something isn't quite right on the hill.

OldPhiKap
01-16-2012, 01:19 PM
I personally think that UNC's problems are very fixable. They have the talent to win the NC and I still expect them to make a deep run. Having said that, however I do think and have said several times in the past that I believe Mr. Barnes is a "problem" for the heels. He is suppossed to be THE MAN on this team, yet his demeanor and effort are not what you would like to see from your "best" player and the player that ALL the media gush over ALL the time. Is it causing a chemistry/resentment problems? I don't know for sure, but it just seems something isn't quite right on the hill.

I flipped in and out, but can someone tell me whether (or how often) Roy called a time out to stem the tide and refocus the kids? K did that early yesterday in a game that could have gotten out of hand like the Heel game in Tallahassee.

SupaDave
01-16-2012, 01:53 PM
I personally think that UNC's problems are very fixable. They have the talent to win the NC and I still expect them to make a deep run. Having said that, however I do think and have said several times in the past that I believe Mr. Barnes is a "problem" for the heels. He is suppossed to be THE MAN on this team, yet his demeanor and effort are not what you would like to see from your "best" player and the player that ALL the media gush over ALL the time. Is it causing a chemistry/resentment problems? I don't know for sure, but it just seems something isn't quite right on the hill.

There's a whole thread over on the IC about Barnes needing to stay another year and having one foot in the NBA...

uh_no
01-16-2012, 01:59 PM
There's a whole thread over on the IC about Barnes needing to stay another year and having one foot in the NBA...

I think he's gone. He plays basketball only because he wants praise and glory. He failed at getting that last year, so he came back searching for it. It's not coming easy for him, and he's not gonna get it, so he has no reason to stay any more. Might as well take the easy road to fame and money and leave.

He thinks he's the second coming of MJ, but at least for MJ, he wanted to be great at basketball, which lead to the fame. For HB, he wants to be famous, and basketball is only a vehicle to be so.

wk2109
01-16-2012, 02:27 PM
I think he's gone. He plays basketball only because he wants praise and glory. He failed at getting that last year, so he came back searching for it. It's not coming easy for him, and he's not gonna get it, so he has no reason to stay any more. Might as well take the easy road to fame and money and leave.

He thinks he's the second coming of MJ, but at least for MJ, he wanted to be great at basketball, which lead to the fame. For HB, he wants to be famous, and basketball is only a vehicle to be so.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. However, I think that whenever he does go to the NBA, he's going to fall into relative obscurity because he's just not that good. So he'll get the money, but not the fame.

DukieInKansas
01-16-2012, 02:44 PM
IC Quotes:

"I'm sorry... I was wrong..I thought HB was the best player in America...I recant that now... Potential means nothing... proof does...sorry HB"
"Justin Watts is our only hope now."
"hey what channel are the NFL playoffs on?"
"I think FSU deserves some credit"
"Blue Steel should start the next game."
"I don't blame Henson for getting that technical. The refs are making up calls now. Every time Carolina brushes the F$U player they call a foul, then Barnes gets pushed EVERY TIME HE GOES TO THE BASKET, and nothing is called.

And Vitale wants to say that Carolina is embarrassing. FU VITALE! YOU ARE AN EMBARRASSMENT TO THE HUMAN RACE!!!!"
"I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. beats florida state by 20....they have intensity"
"Wow, how did we get 8 points this half"
"This team is the softest Carolina team I've EVER seen...... They cone out flat with no emotion way too much..... Me thinks alot of it is on ole Roy...... It's pathetic and embarrassing ..... I think this team thinks it's better than what it is .... And if u thank about it they haven't done anything ..... And they never will unless they learn to show up EVERY ******* game ...."
"Somewhere Larry Drew is snickering..."



That last quoted line is hysterical! Thanks for the chuckle.

loldevilz
01-16-2012, 03:44 PM
I think he's gone. He plays basketball only because he wants praise and glory. He failed at getting that last year, so he came back searching for it. It's not coming easy for him, and he's not gonna get it, so he has no reason to stay any more. Might as well take the easy road to fame and money and leave.

He thinks he's the second coming of MJ, but at least for MJ, he wanted to be great at basketball, which lead to the fame. For HB, he wants to be famous, and basketball is only a vehicle to be so.

He's as good as gone. Last year the lockout kept him back as did the chance to win a championship. Without Henson or Zeller UNC doesn't have a chance next year.

Atlanta Duke
01-16-2012, 03:51 PM
This headline today from the N&O (not The Onion)

UNC coach Roy Williams not well but still living

At one point earlier today during Roy Williams’ portion of the ACC’s weekly coaches’ teleconference, a reporter opened his question to Williams with this: “Coach, how are you doing?”

To which Williams said, “Not very good but still alive.”

http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/01/16/1782702/unc-coach-roy-williams-not-well.html

Further confirmation of the wisdom of this quote

Dan Patrick: He's listed as day to day, but then again, aren't we all?

http://www.grumpychimp.com/quotes/sportscenter-quotes.php

Hang in there Roy

mpj96
01-16-2012, 04:00 PM
Do you have a link for that? I don't have an Ipad, but I'd LOVE to be able to watch this game online.

I believe the site is: www.watchESPN.com

I don't know if the game is still posted but it was available yesterday morning when I woke up.

OldPhiKap
01-16-2012, 04:24 PM
This headline today from the N&O (not The Onion)

UNC coach Roy Williams not well but still living

At one point earlier today during Roy Williams’ portion of the ACC’s weekly coaches’ teleconference, a reporter opened his question to Williams with this: “Coach, how are you doing?”

To which Williams said, “Not very good but still alive.”

http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/01/16/1782702/unc-coach-roy-williams-not-well.html

Further confirmation of the wisdom of this quote

Dan Patrick: He's listed as day to day, but then again, aren't we all?

http://www.grumpychimp.com/quotes/sportscenter-quotes.php

Hang in there Roy

I'm not dead yet! I feel happy! I think I'll go for a walk . . . .

94duke
01-16-2012, 06:39 PM
Roy didn't mean to leave his players on the court. He was trying to call the game.
Roy wanted to quit!

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/uncnow/unc-coach-roy-williams-didnt-mean-to-leave-walk-ons-stranded-at-florida-state-spokesman-says

Atlanta Duke
01-16-2012, 07:04 PM
Roy didn't mean to leave his players on the court. He was trying to call the game.
Roy wanted to quit!

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/uncnow/unc-coach-roy-williams-didnt-mean-to-leave-walk-ons-stranded-at-florida-state-spokesman-says

Williams was wondering why it took so long for some of his players to enter the locker room. It wasn’t until Williams watched film of the game later on Saturday when he realized that the final 14 seconds had been played


http://blogs.newsobserver.com/uncnow...spokesman-says

DoubleDuke Dad
01-16-2012, 07:07 PM
Roy didn't mean to leave his players on the court. He was trying to call the game.
Roy wanted to quit!

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/uncnow/unc-coach-roy-williams-didnt-mean-to-leave-walk-ons-stranded-at-florida-state-spokesman-says

No Mas, No Mas!

I guess we will have to call him Roy "Roberto Duran" Williams from now on. :)

roywhite
01-16-2012, 07:12 PM
No Mas, No Mas!

I guess we will have to call him Roy "Roberto Duran" Williams from now on. :)

Sorry if this association has already been made somewhere in this thread, and no disrespect to the serious nature of the Costa Concordia tragedy, but I don't think you'd want to go on a cruise with Ole Roy as the captain. He's eager to leave the sinking ship before everybody else gets off.

striker219
01-16-2012, 07:15 PM
Roy didn't mean to leave his players on the court. He was trying to call the game.
Roy wanted to quit!

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/uncnow/unc-coach-roy-williams-didnt-mean-to-leave-walk-ons-stranded-at-florida-state-spokesman-says

Wow. I honestly don't know what to think about that. Is this true or is it just Roy responding to criticism? I'm inclined to think it's true, because while he is a lot of things, Roy doesn't really strike me as an out-and-out liar. But really? While there was clearly no question of the outcome, who forfeits a game in the closing seconds? I totally understand wanting to get most of your personnel out of the way of the crush of bodies that everyone knew was coming, but to just call the game and walk off the court? I'm dumbfounded. Does this ever happen?

And if this was just an idea he came up with after the fact to cover his retreat (which seems unlikely), is that the best you could do?

camion
01-16-2012, 07:22 PM
We're left with two possibilities.

1. He thought the game was called and concurred. That's bad.

2. He didn't think the game was called and left the walk-ons out there. That's bad.

hustleplays
01-16-2012, 08:01 PM
2271

News flash: Given the anguish caused by the tragic disappearance of five UNC walk-ons at FSU, the North Carolina legislature today passed a new law, effective by the next UNC basketball road game, called the "Baby Blue Alert" Act. [BBAA]. BBAA stipulates that pictures of all Tar Heel non-scholarship players, along with the number for the American Red Cross Hotline, are to be distributed at all exits, and on Twitter [#heelswithoutcoaches] The BBAA provisions are automatically activated whenever the Tar Heels are behind by seven or more points in the 2nd half, and when there are more than 350 people in the stands.

wsb3
01-16-2012, 08:02 PM
Is this true or is it just Roy responding to criticism?

I am going to go with the last part of your sentence. I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt but he clearly knew he was leaving players behind. What was he leaving them behind for if not to finish the last few seconds? He has caught criticism for his act and now he is bailing hard.

TruBlu
01-16-2012, 08:10 PM
Women's basketball halftime score: UConn 51 unc-ch 16

Newton_14
01-16-2012, 08:33 PM
I am telling you Ol Roy is playing us all. Last time UNC suffered an embarrassing defeat to an unranked team, all everyone talked about afterward were BB guns and opposing fans.

Now everyone is talking about Roy abandoning ship, and did he leave the walkons behind, or no wait, he thought he forfeited and everyone was pulled off....

Meanwhile no one is talking about the horrid defense the pigeon played on Dulkies (sp?) or the terrible play overall by the team, or the Henson technical, Marshall's turnovers, lack of guard play, etc.

Don't take the bait! Let's discuss the actual game, and how a very offensively challenged FSU team who managed 10 points in the first half on the same floor against Princeton, lit up the Tarheels for 90 points, while holding that offensive juggernaut to a mere 57.

That should be the topic for discussion. I imagine Andre Dawkins is smiling somewhere, knowing how many good looks can be had against a team that bad at defending the 3 Point Line. UNC is very lacking in guard play. Good front line (but soft) and tall wings who love to jack 3's but don't really make a lot, and don't really offer much else. Guard play is a major weakness. Kendall is a great passer at home, but not real good at anything else. Strickland is a really good defender and slasher, but terrible shooter. Barnes can be stopped when attempting to drive. Which guard on that team can break a defense down and get to the rim?

Somewhere Ol Roy is debating the decision to redshirt McDonald. They miss that guy more than most realize.

If Va Tech gets a healthy Green back on Thursday, UNC will get challenged again in a hostile environment. How will they respond?

OldPhiKap
01-16-2012, 08:35 PM
Roy needs to read the rule book. The Mercy Rule is not used after JV ball.


Seriously. this new explanation is even stranger than just abandoning ship with a few assistant coaches on the bench. Wow.

OldPhiKap
01-16-2012, 08:39 PM
Favorite quote on IC so far about "Courtgate" is:


"Yeah, this is worse than a Haitian earthquake."

or:


"When I was a kid, my family went back home and left me at Carowinds. They realized it the next week when the cereal seemed to last longer than usual."

or:


So Roy didn't realize that as he and much of his team were exiting the floor for safety concerns, he actually didn't manage to get all his players to safety? That's like saying a teacher didn't manage to count heads during a fire drill.

Here's the summary of Roy's understanding "Hamilton suggested we leave the court because it might not be safe once the game ended; so we left the court. Heck if I know how many of my kids and coaches managed to retreat to safety."

or:


Blue Steel should be thanking Coach Williams! He risked his life to make sure that exit was clear!

oldnavy
01-16-2012, 08:45 PM
I am telling you Ol Roy is playing us all. Last time UNC suffered an embarrassing defeat to an unranked team, all everyone talked about afterward were BB guns and opposing fans.

Now everyone is talking about Roy abandoning ship, and did he leave the walkons behind, or no wait, he thought he forfeited and everyone was pulled off....

Meanwhile no one is talking about the horrid defense the pigeon played on Dulkies (sp?) or the terrible play overall by the team, or the Henson technical, Marshall's turnovers, lack of guard play, etc.

Don't take the bait! Let's discuss the actual game, and how a very offensively challenged FSU team who managed 10 points in the first half on the same floor against Princeton, lit up the Tarheels for 90 points, while holding that offensive juggernaut to a mere 57.

That should be the topic for discussion. I imagine Andre Dawkins is smiling somewhere, knowing how many good looks can be had against a team that bad at defending the 3 Point Line. UNC is very lacking in guard play. Good front line (but soft) and tall wings who love to jack 3's but don't really make a lot, and don't really offer much else. Guard play is a major weakness. Kendall is a great passer at home, but not real good at anything else. Strickland is a really good defender and slasher, but terrible shooter. Barnes can be stopped when attempting to drive. Which guard on that team can break a defense down and get to the rim?

Somewhere Ol Roy is debating the decision to redshirt McDonald. They miss that guy more than most realize.

If Va Tech gets a healthy Green back on Thursday, UNC will get challenged again in a hostile environment. How will they respond?

There is no way Roy Williams is smart enough to come up with such a plan. I think it is just so unbelievable that we are all searching for some logic in this mess.

jjasper0729
01-16-2012, 08:47 PM
Women's basketball halftime score: UConn 51 unc-ch 16

How is that team ranked #21? Is the state of women's college basketball that bad that they deserve that ranking?

Not that I'm trying to hijack the thread or anything

loran16
01-16-2012, 08:50 PM
How is that team ranked #21? Is the state of women's college basketball that bad that they deserve that ranking?

Not that I'm trying to hijack the thread or anything

It' been this way for a while actually - Usually there's three-four tiers in women's cbb: The overwhelming favorite (This year - Baylor), the 1-2 other super good teams that might challenge them maybe, about 5 other teams that are very very good, but aren't anywhere in the top 3's level, and then the rest of the ranked teams, before you even get to the unranked teams.

In other words, being ranked #21 in college basketball puts you at a huge huge disadvantage in skill/ability compared to say, the #3 team in the nation.

Newton_14
01-16-2012, 08:52 PM
There is no way Roy Williams is smart enough to come up with such a plan. I think it is just so unbelievable that we are all searching for some logic in this mess.

No chance he isn't just diverting attention away from the loss itself? Intentional or no, it worked. Everyone is talking about the exit, and NO ONE is talking about the actual game and shortcomings of the team.

Maybe you are right. Who knows. It just seems each and every time there is a diversion, and folks end up talking about him. Either way, like I said numerous times before: "Ol Roy, the gift that keeps on giving"

Gewebe14
01-16-2012, 09:05 PM
How would canceling the final 14 seconds (and then inviting the onslaught of fans storming the court immediately) have helped his team get off the court early? This is a blatant lie by Huck (especially obviuos since it came out a day later.) If he didn't notice there was still time on the clock when he was walking off and that no one was storming the court at that time.... then I don't know what to say to him.

moonpie23
01-16-2012, 09:26 PM
actually calling the game with time left on the clock might have enraged the crowd ......i don't think he "cancelled" the game, or thought about cancelling the game, or is lucky enough for anyone to even consider that he might have cancelled the game..


i think he just couldn't deal with the defeat.....

OldPhiKap
01-16-2012, 09:27 PM
Has a game ever been called early in the ACC?

What a load of manure.

Devilsfan
01-16-2012, 09:31 PM
Maybe Roy thought in ACC play if one team gets a 30 point lead in the second half the game is called. At any rate this is some recruiting tool for every other team in America.

Reilly
01-16-2012, 09:35 PM
Butch Davis said he couldn't keep track of 27,000 students ... Roy proved he couldn't keep up with 5 ....

Having Carolina as a rival is *fun*.

Seriously, you couldn't dream up the heaps of ridicule that they just bring on themselves ...

OldPhiKap
01-16-2012, 10:05 PM
"The University of North Carolina. No Scholarship Player Left Behind."*


* Offer does not apply to walk-ons or non-favored scholarship players. All coaches not covered. Your mileage may vary, void where prohibited.

94duke
01-16-2012, 10:06 PM
Apparently, Roy didn't know he left five guys behind until he watched game "tape" the next day.
http://northcarolina.scout.com/2/1149321.html

OldPhiKap
01-16-2012, 10:12 PM
I kind of laugh at the fact that they call the last five off the bench "Blue Steel" -- sounds like a bad porn name.

But really, the guys who come in for mop-up time at best are strong as steel? How about "baby blue forget-me-nots?"

JasonEvans
01-16-2012, 10:20 PM
I am sorry but Roy's story is total bull. If he actually thought they were going to call the final 14 seconds of the game then he would not have discussed it with Hamilton, he would have discussed it with the referees. It is not up to the coaches to call the game, it is up to the refs. I cannot think of any precedent for calling a game early because fans were expected to storm the court after the game was over. The only time I have seen a game called early was when there was a fight that caused a toxic atmosphere in the arena. This was nowhere close to that situation.

There are blow outs where the court could clearly be stormed all the time. I have never, ever seen one where the final seconds of the game were forfeited. Why bother to wait until the final 14 seconds. They could have called the game with 2 or 3 minutes left with a 30+ point FSU lead. There are games where Duke and UNC are playing little sisters of the poor and lead by 40, 50, or even 60 points at the end-- lets call those games early too. Heck, with blow out games now only lasting 35 or 36 minutes instead of 40, maybe ESPN can actually get it right when they schedule games 2 hours apart.

I think many of you know that I admired Dean Smith. I think the man was an innovator and a true coaching genius. No, he was not perfect and he was certainly a bully at times, but I think only a fool would not respect all that he accomplished in college basketball. Roy, on the other hand, has done little to earn my respect. I think he is a fabulous recruiter but not a very good coach. He is sorta Bobby Cremins with a little bit more of a gameplan and a deeper bench of good players.

Off the court, I am starting to think he is a little bit of a bad dude. His willingness to blame others and his total disrespect for people who do not back him unquestioningly is not the sign of someone who is confident in their own abilities and successes. It is also becoming increasingly clear that he doesn't care all that much about the kids that play for him. In that regard, he is somewhat the anti-Dean. Ain't no way Dean Smith turns his back and walks off the floor before making sure that all his players and assistants are safe. Dean is the last man off the floor in the retreat... not the first.

-Jason "Now, feel free to rip me for respecting Dean" Evans

Kfanarmy
01-16-2012, 10:23 PM
It's not "calling the game." You simply let the ball be put in play and walk off the court. As long as there is less than a full shot clock left, and the other team doesn't try to score, the clock runs out....I don't get all the talk about forfeiting / cancelling the game. Am I missing something?

cspan37421
01-16-2012, 10:32 PM
This is just not a credible story. All I can say in Roy's favor on this incident is that yeah, students storming the court could pose a danger to his players. I don't care if no one has yet been seriously hurt by such a thing (IF); there's always a first time. Besides, having a single student run out on the court during the game or in a time out would never be tolerated ... why should hundreds of them at once? Anyway, it's pretty shocking he didn't just send his starters to the locker room - that he went with them! That's pretty low. And the notion that he didn't know the others were still there ... c'mon, man. Where did he think they were? An agent's party in South Beach?

Newton_14
01-16-2012, 10:33 PM
I am sorry but Roy's story is total bull. If he actually thought they were going to call the final 14 seconds of the game then he would not have discussed it with Hamilton, he would have discussed it with the referees. It is not up to the coaches to call the game, it is up to the refs. I cannot think of any precedent for calling a game early because fans were expected to storm the court after the game was over. The only time I have seen a game called early was when there was a fight that caused a toxic atmosphere in the arena. This was nowhere close to that situation.

There are blow outs where the court could clearly be stormed all the time. I have never, ever seen one where the final seconds of the game were forfeited. Why bother to wait until the final 14 seconds. They could have called the game with 2 or 3 minutes left with a 30+ point FSU lead. There are games where Duke and UNC are playing little sisters of the poor and lead by 40, 50, or even 60 points at the end-- lets call those games early too. Heck, with blow out games now only lasting 35 or 36 minutes instead of 40, maybe ESPN can actually get it right when they schedule games 2 hours apart.

I think many of you know that I admired Dean Smith. I think the man was an innovator and a true coaching genius. No, he was not perfect and he was certainly a bully at times, but I think only a fool would not respect all that he accomplished in college basketball. Roy, on the other hand, has done little to earn my respect. I think he is a fabulous recruiter but not a very good coach. He is sorta Bobby Cremins with a little bit more of a gameplan and a deeper bench of good players.

Off the court, I am starting to think he is a little bit of a bad dude. His willingness to blame others and his total disrespect for people who do not back him unquestioningly is not the sign of someone who is confident in their own abilities and successes. It is also becoming increasingly clear that he doesn't care all that much about the kids that play for him. In that regard, he is somewhat the anti-Dean. Ain't no way Dean Smith turns his back and walks off the floor before making sure that all his players and assistants are safe. Dean is the last man off the floor in the retreat... not the first.

-Jason "Now, feel free to rip me for respecting Dean" Evans

No ripping from me. I have great respect for Dean and put him up there with Wooden, K, and Knight as the 4 Horsemen of College Coaches so to speak. I saw the same faults as you, but none of the antics we have witnessed the last 3 years would have ever happened under Dean Smith. No way no how. Be it all an act, or 100% authentic narcissistic and stupid, it just would not have happened under Dean.

I do wonder if Roy does some of this to take the focus off of how poorly they played. If it is a diversion, I don't think for one minute he does it to protect the players, but rather to take the attention off of his shortcomings as a coach. No matter what the intentions are, it is incredibly embarrassing to the UNC Program. Something I am quite sure Smith would not approve of, were he of sound mind.

For those who missed it, the UNC SID actually called in live to the Adam Gold show today, for the specific purpose of reporting that Roy was unaware the 5 players were left behind. A talk radio show. That is how the story broke this afternoon. That is just bizarre.

cspan37421
01-16-2012, 10:36 PM
Art imitating life:

2281

So ironic - Roy's 3rd strings were cryogenically stored, and then activated (when the going got tough!)

OldPhiKap
01-16-2012, 10:39 PM
I am sorry but Roy's story is total bull.

As a writer, you should know that the first clause clashes with the second. No reason to apologize for calling Roy on his horse manure. Kind of like a subject-object conflict.

Your analysis is spot-on. This story makes absolutely no sense, and even the IC crowd is calling him on it.

You threw the kids under the bus, Roy. Just own up to it. You do it in your press conferences all the time, this is just a bit more tangible.

Are you really contending that you pulled the team from the floor, without even asking a ref if the game was over?


One thing I'll compare Roy to that kind of rips on Dean -- when Dean "got thrown out" of the 1991 game against Roy in the Final Four when it was clear that Carolina was going to lose. I always suspected that Dean did not want to be on the floor when they lost, and wanted to make a grand exit. Sort of feel that Roy stole his move on Saturday from his old mentor.

Reilly
01-16-2012, 10:42 PM
I kind of laugh at the fact that they call the last five off the bench "Blue Steel" -- sounds like a bad porn name.

But really, the guys who come in for mop-up time at best are strong as steel? How about "baby blue forget-me-nots?"

http://www.wikihow.com/Do-the-%22Blue-Steel%22-Pose-from-Zoolander

OldPhiKap
01-16-2012, 10:44 PM
http://www.wikihow.com/Do-the-%22Blue-Steel%22-Pose-from-Zoolander

lol. Tried to spork you for that but have done so too recently to do again. Well-played.

camion
01-16-2012, 10:51 PM
So the SID called Adam Gold to report that his head basketball coach is really that clueless.

2282 2282 2282 2282 2282

Verga3
01-16-2012, 10:55 PM
I am sorry but Roy's story is total bull. If he actually thought they were going to call the final 14 seconds of the game then he would not have discussed it with Hamilton, he would have discussed it with the referees. It is not up to the coaches to call the game, it is up to the refs. I cannot think of any precedent for calling a game early because fans were expected to storm the court after the game was over. The only time I have seen a game called early was when there was a fight that caused a toxic atmosphere in the arena. This was nowhere close to that situation.

There are blow outs where the court could clearly be stormed all the time. I have never, ever seen one where the final seconds of the game were forfeited. Why bother to wait until the final 14 seconds. They could have called the game with 2 or 3 minutes left with a 30+ point FSU lead. There are games where Duke and UNC are playing little sisters of the poor and lead by 40, 50, or even 60 points at the end-- lets call those games early too. Heck, with blow out games now only lasting 35 or 36 minutes instead of 40, maybe ESPN can actually get it right when they schedule games 2 hours apart.

I think many of you know that I admired Dean Smith. I think the man was an innovator and a true coaching genius. No, he was not perfect and he was certainly a bully at times, but I think only a fool would not respect all that he accomplished in college basketball. Roy, on the other hand, has done little to earn my respect. I think he is a fabulous recruiter but not a very good coach. He is sorta Bobby Cremins with a little bit more of a gameplan and a deeper bench of good players.

Off the court, I am starting to think he is a little bit of a bad dude. His willingness to blame others and his total disrespect for people who do not back him unquestioningly is not the sign of someone who is confident in their own abilities and successes. It is also becoming increasingly clear that he doesn't care all that much about the kids that play for him. In that regard, he is somewhat the anti-Dean. Ain't no way Dean Smith turns his back and walks off the floor before making sure that all his players and assistants are safe. Dean is the last man off the floor in the retreat... not the first.

-Jason "Now, feel free to rip me for respecting Dean" Evans

Amen. Haven't seen a replay, but if he never spoke to the refs with the game not over...

You are right, Dean would never have walked off on his walk-ons (and at Florida State??). Integrity of the game...care for my guys. Pretty incredible. Roy in a box. Has to stick to his story now. I'll bet you anything that Leonard Hamilton has Roy's back. He is a class act.

BluDvlsN1
01-16-2012, 10:55 PM
There have been so many posts on this thread and IC, that have left me in stitches!'
I made a post earlier on what I feel about Roy's inability to coach!

This I found on IC and wanted to share!


--- caheel wrote:

One of my great regrets as a military officer occurred one time in Saudi Arabia while leading a Detachment. We were riding in the back of a 5-Ton driven by my Marine (I was assigned to 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing during Desert Shield/Storm) with about 3 officers and 7 or 8 enlisted Sailors and Marines.

It had been a typical 130 degree day and we had had a flat tire on the 5-Ton in the middle of the desert just after midday and spent several hours repairing it, so when we arrived at our destination around dusk, we were hot, very tired, probably dehydrated, and pretty hungry. We knew the mess hall wouldn't be open much longer. As soon as we got on base and near our tents, I told the Chief to take the troops for some chow and my officers and I headed off to get our chow.

Now on the surface, it may not seem like a big deal, but after I did it, I realized what a complete failure of leadership I demonstrated.

The right answer would be to sent my officers to their chow hall, and go with my Chief and enlisted troops to their chow hall to make sure they got fed. Since I knew we were cutting it close on the meal hours, if my men showed up and it was closed, they probably would have just tossed them an MRE and told them to hit the road, but as a Field Grade Officer (O-4 at the time), I likely could have convinced them to feed them a hot meal since we hadn't had one all day. But I very selfishly was more interested in making sure I got to the Officer's mess so i could get a hot mean than I was interested in taking care of my men.

After I finished my less than yummy hot meal, I realized how I had breached the first rule of leadership- take care of your troops before you take care of yourself. When my men were settling in their tents, I went in and apologized to them and assured them it would never happen again.

That event, although almost meaningless in the scope of preparing for battle with the Republican Guard, still haunts me and I always felt was one of the low points of my career. And I never, ever did anything like that again.

Roy just repeated my failure of leadership today. You came into the arena together, you battled the opponent together, and you leave together as a team. No one is any more important than the other. If you have to fight you way to the locker room, you fight for each other and don't leave a bunch of "less important" "troops" back to fight for themselves.

That moment was as ugly as the game and I only hope Roy learns that lesson and never repeats it.

---------------------------------------------

Say's it all!!!

JasonEvans
01-16-2012, 11:28 PM
lol. Tried to spork you for that but have done so too recently to do again. Well-played.

I sporked him for you. Zoolander sporks!!

-Jason

feldspar
01-17-2012, 12:17 AM
I finally figured it out. Roy was trying to shoot the moon, but forgot he wasn't playing hearts with his Monday night CoCola drinking yokel group.

OldPhiKap
01-17-2012, 06:29 AM
"Gone in 14 seconds" has a whole new meaning.

oldnavy
01-17-2012, 06:40 AM
There have been so many posts on this thread and IC, that have left me in stitches!'
I made a post earlier on what I feel about Roy's inability to coach!

This I found on IC and wanted to share!


--- caheel wrote:

One of my great regrets as a military officer occurred one time in Saudi Arabia while leading a Detachment. We were riding in the back of a 5-Ton driven by my Marine (I was assigned to 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing during Desert Shield/Storm) with about 3 officers and 7 or 8 enlisted Sailors and Marines.

It had been a typical 130 degree day and we had had a flat tire on the 5-Ton in the middle of the desert just after midday and spent several hours repairing it, so when we arrived at our destination around dusk, we were hot, very tired, probably dehydrated, and pretty hungry. We knew the mess hall wouldn't be open much longer. As soon as we got on base and near our tents, I told the Chief to take the troops for some chow and my officers and I headed off to get our chow.

Now on the surface, it may not seem like a big deal, but after I did it, I realized what a complete failure of leadership I demonstrated.

The right answer would be to sent my officers to their chow hall, and go with my Chief and enlisted troops to their chow hall to make sure they got fed. Since I knew we were cutting it close on the meal hours, if my men showed up and it was closed, they probably would have just tossed them an MRE and told them to hit the road, but as a Field Grade Officer (O-4 at the time), I likely could have convinced them to feed them a hot meal since we hadn't had one all day. But I very selfishly was more interested in making sure I got to the Officer's mess so i could get a hot mean than I was interested in taking care of my men.

After I finished my less than yummy hot meal, I realized how I had breached the first rule of leadership- take care of your troops before you take care of yourself. When my men were settling in their tents, I went in and apologized to them and assured them it would never happen again.

That event, although almost meaningless in the scope of preparing for battle with the Republican Guard, still haunts me and I always felt was one of the low points of my career. And I never, ever did anything like that again.

Roy just repeated my failure of leadership today. You came into the arena together, you battled the opponent together, and you leave together as a team. No one is any more important than the other. If you have to fight you way to the locker room, you fight for each other and don't leave a bunch of "less important" "troops" back to fight for themselves.

That moment was as ugly as the game and I only hope Roy learns that lesson and never repeats it.

---------------------------------------------

Say's it all!!!


Amen! I made a post earlier filled with less than nice things about Roy and got an infraction, which in hindsight I realize I deserved. Although I didn't use profanity, my disdain for Roy was expressed with crude references, so for any of you who saw it before it was pulled, I apologize. Let me try again after full nights sleep… Roy’s actions are pathetic. He is a comical character who claims to have had the safety of his kids in mind, yet he sprints ahead of them to the locker room so that he ensures that he is first out of “danger”. For him to claim that he didn’t even know that the 5 kids were out on the court during the final 14 seconds of the game is ridiculous and funny. If it is true, then it only proves that his true concern was for himself all along and that he has no business being responsible for others in the first place. Roy acted cowardly Saturday. For a man who likes to thump his chest and claim that he is a “mountain man” and always ready for a fight he showed his true colors when he left the court FIRST when he smelled a potentially unsafe environment.

Indoor66
01-17-2012, 07:08 AM
Amen! I made a post earlier filled with less than nice things about Roy and got an infraction, which in hindsight I realize I deserved. Although I didn't use profanity, my disdain for Roy was expressed with crude references, so for any of you who saw it before it was pulled, I apologize. Let me try again after full nights sleep… Roy’s actions are pathetic. He is a comical character who claims to have had the safety of his kids in mind, yet he sprints ahead of them to the locker room so that he ensures that he is first out of “danger”. For him to claim that he didn’t even know that the 5 kids were out on the court during the final 14 seconds of the game is ridiculous and funny. If it is true, then it only proves that his true concern was for himself all along and that he has no business being responsible for others in the first place. Roy acted cowardly Saturday. For a man who likes to thump his chest and claim that he is a “mountain man” and always ready for a fight he showed his true colors when he left the court FIRST when he smelled a potentially unsafe environment.

I agree with you on this except that in no way was this action funny. Ridiculous and pathetic, ridiculous and uncaring or ridiculous and self-centered are, IMHO, more appropriate.

MartyClark
01-17-2012, 07:10 AM
It reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where George attends a childrens birthday party. A small fire breaks out. George panics and elbows his way past children and older people to the door. His excuses afterwards made it worse.

jv001
01-17-2012, 07:27 AM
What roy did was cowardly and showed what kind of man he really is, but it did not surprise me at all. He repeatedly demonstrates he is a "I" person who only cares for himself. So I'll just sit back and see what stupid thing he does next. GoDuke!

BCGroup
01-17-2012, 08:23 AM
My husband was in the military--not a basketball fan (except with me), and knows nothing about Ol Roy, but here was his comment: What? You never leave your troops behind. Why wasn't he the last one to leave the court?


There have been so many posts on this thread and IC, that have left me in stitches!'
I made a post earlier on what I feel about Roy's inability to coach!

This I found on IC and wanted to share!


--- caheel wrote:

One of my great regrets as a military officer occurred one time in Saudi Arabia while leading a Detachment. We were riding in the back of a 5-Ton driven by my Marine (I was assigned to 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing during Desert Shield/Storm) with about 3 officers and 7 or 8 enlisted Sailors and Marines.

It had been a typical 130 degree day and we had had a flat tire on the 5-Ton in the middle of the desert just after midday and spent several hours repairing it, so when we arrived at our destination around dusk, we were hot, very tired, probably dehydrated, and pretty hungry. We knew the mess hall wouldn't be open much longer. As soon as we got on base and near our tents, I told the Chief to take the troops for some chow and my officers and I headed off to get our chow.

Now on the surface, it may not seem like a big deal, but after I did it, I realized what a complete failure of leadership I demonstrated.

The right answer would be to sent my officers to their chow hall, and go with my Chief and enlisted troops to their chow hall to make sure they got fed. Since I knew we were cutting it close on the meal hours, if my men showed up and it was closed, they probably would have just tossed them an MRE and told them to hit the road, but as a Field Grade Officer (O-4 at the time), I likely could have convinced them to feed them a hot meal since we hadn't had one all day. But I very selfishly was more interested in making sure I got to the Officer's mess so i could get a hot mean than I was interested in taking care of my men.

After I finished my less than yummy hot meal, I realized how I had breached the first rule of leadership- take care of your troops before you take care of yourself. When my men were settling in their tents, I went in and apologized to them and assured them it would never happen again.

That event, although almost meaningless in the scope of preparing for battle with the Republican Guard, still haunts me and I always felt was one of the low points of my career. And I never, ever did anything like that again.

Roy just repeated my failure of leadership today. You came into the arena together, you battled the opponent together, and you leave together as a team. No one is any more important than the other. If you have to fight you way to the locker room, you fight for each other and don't leave a bunch of "less important" "troops" back to fight for themselves.

That moment was as ugly as the game and I only hope Roy learns that lesson and never repeats it.

---------------------------------------------

Say's it all!!!

BCGroup
01-17-2012, 08:33 AM
Sorry if I've missed this, but on this FSU board http://floridastate.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=1080&tid=152002970&mid=152002970&sid=1061&style=2 there are two pictures that are just hilarious:

2285
2286

94duke
01-17-2012, 08:43 AM
http://www.wikihow.com/Do-the-%22Blue-Steel%22-Pose-from-Zoolander

Reilly beat me to the punch, but here is a youtube video of "Blue Steel."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D519hT7-ytY&feature=related

Reilly
01-17-2012, 09:42 AM
Those DosXX commercials show the most interesting man in the world, w/ grainy footage of feats of derring-do ... Roy's like the least interesting man in the world, and the montage would cut from him in his loud suits and goofy eyewear ... to barking at a 20-something Presbyterian fan ... to getting a massage while tears stream down his face while images of the Haitian earthquake and the 2010 season intersperse in his mind ... to hiding behind a tree and taking aim at NCSU rear-ends with his BB gun ... to leading the charge out of Tallahassee ...

rsvman
01-17-2012, 10:13 AM
Those DosXX commercials show the most interesting man in the world, w/ grainy footage of feats of derring-do ... Roy's like the least interesting man in the world, and the montage would cut from him in his loud suits and goofy eyewear ... to barking at a 20-something Presbyterian fan ... to getting a massage while tears stream down his face while images of the Haitian earthquake and the 2010 season intersperse in his mind ... to hiding behind a tree and taking aim at NCSU rear-ends with his BB gun ... to leading the charge out of Tallahassee ...

This is hilarious.

"He dresses like a magician. He hates opposing fans. His season is worse than a Haitian earthquake. He throws his players under the bus. He abandons his team when the going gets tough.
He's the least interesting man in the world."

OldPhiKap
01-17-2012, 10:20 AM
This is hilarious.

"He dresses like a magician. He hates opposing fans. His season is worse than a Haitian earthquake. He throws his players under the bus. He abandons his team when the going gets tough.
He's the least interesting man in the world."

"Stay boring, my friends"

SMO
01-17-2012, 10:34 AM
"Stay boring, my friends"

I don't always flee to the locker room early, but when I do I am the first one there.

Stay yellow, my friends.

Troublemaker
01-17-2012, 10:50 AM
Bottom line, a true leader ensures that all in his charge have escaped danger before he flees himself. A coward flees first and hopes that everyone else behind him makes it.

There is no damage control for this. Actions speak louder than words.