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Wheat/"/"/"
01-10-2012, 07:53 PM
I realize we're getting a little off topic, but here is the latest educated guess (http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2012/01/10/exclusive-team-usas-preliminary-roster/) for the 19 players coach K is expected to start out with and cut down to 12 for the olympic team.......

sagegrouse
01-10-2012, 09:01 PM
I realize we're getting a little off topic, but here is the latest educated guess (http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2012/01/10/exclusive-team-usas-preliminary-roster/) for the 19 players coach K is expected to start out with and cut down to 12 for the olympic team.......

Probably worth a totally new thread. Thanks, Wheat. I kinda figured the final team would be about one-hapf repeats from Beijing, one-helf younger guys from the last US team. And maybe, just maybe room for a college player or rookie.

sage

gam7
01-11-2012, 12:10 AM
Probably worth a totally new thread. Thanks, Wheat. I kinda figured the final team would be about one-hapf repeats from Beijing, one-helf younger guys from the last US team. And maybe, just maybe room for a college player or rookie.

sage

Blake Griffin is the only invitee who did not play on the last Olympic team or the 2010 World Championship team.

CPDUKEGUY24
01-11-2012, 06:39 AM
Blake Griffin is the only invitee who did not play on the last Olympic team or the 2010 World Championship team.

...assuming Mr. Sheridan's "International Sources" are accurate, Lamarcus Aldridge would be another invitee not from a previous USA Basketball team. He has a great offensive game for a big! Some tough decisions to make there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_United_States_men%27s_Olympic_basketball_team

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_men's_national_basketball_team

dukeballboy88
01-11-2012, 09:10 AM
I know several unc fans that didnt pull for the usa in the olympics because k was involved. Dont let any unc or uk fan fool you, they would love nothing more than to see the usa team get a bronze.

superdave
01-11-2012, 09:30 AM
DBR linked (http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2012/01/10/exclusive-team-usas-preliminary-roster/)to this on the front page.

Here's the alleged roster:

LaMarcus Aldridge
Carmelo Anthony
Chauncey Billups
Chris Bosh
Kobe Bryant
Tyson Chandler
Kevin Durant
Eric Gordon
Blake Griffin
Dwight Howard
Andre Iguodala
LeBron James
Kevin Love
Lamar Odom
Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Dwyane Wade
Russell Westbrook
Deron Williams


That's 20 guys and will need to be cut down to 12 for the Olympics. Coach K seems to like guys who can play multiple positions and who can sacrifice their egos for the success of the team. Also we'll be playing international FIBA rules.

2008 players not on this list: Boozer, Kidd, Prince, Redd.
2010 players not on this list: Curry, Gay, Granger.

Keeping those things in mind, let's go through by position:

Point Guard - Billups, Paul, Rose, Westbrook, Williams. We wont be taking 5 pg's and I think Billups is the easy cut here. He is injured right now and may not come out the other side of this season unscathed. I think Paul's knees bear watching, but he's automatically on this team if he can go. If Paul plays I think it becomes a fight between Deron and Russell for the 3rd pg slot. Rajon Rondo could play his way into a tryout. He's leading the league in assists and his jumper is falling. I think John Wall is out this time but could get consideration in 2014.
Projection: Paul, Rose, Williams.

Shooting Guard - Kobe, Wade, Gordon. I think Kobe could be the Jason Kidd of this team, only starting and finishing games in limited minutes, but definitely being the leader. Hopefully his knees hold up this season. Wade is another one whose health is never certain. Gordon is an up and comer and I would expect him to make the team. No cuts out of these three. But Steph Curry could bubble up in tryouts and can play both guard positions. James Harden is playing well this year and could earn a tryout.
Projection: Kobe, Wade, Gordon.

Small Forward - Melo, Durant, James, Igoudala. I think there's a good chance both KD and Lebron start and we go small and just irritate every team because they cannot match up with us. Melo should make it. He's a top 10 player when he's inspired and played very well in 2008. I'd expect Igoudala to be cut. Rudy Gay could earn a tryout.
Projection: Durant, James.

Power Forward - Aldridge, Bosh, Blake, Love, Odom. I like Aldridge and Bosh for jump-shooting ability, Odom for his versatility, Love for his rebounding and passing and Blake because he's an animal. You have to start cutting people for their shortcomings though: I'd cut Aldridge because he does not rebound well or protect the rim. I'd cut Odom because he's not playing well and may be in a post-L.A. funk. Plus the Kardashians might tag along. Ugh. The only other guys who could get a tryout are Al Horford and Javale McGee who I think was the last guy cut in 2010.
Projection: Bosh, Blake, Love.

Center - Chandler, Howard. Dwight could be in the midst of some crazy contract stuff and Tyson may not be healthy enough to go. I'd probably bet against Tyson making this team. We can always play Odom at center (see 2010 World Games) and Love can eat space. The only two names I would add to the list for getting possible tryouts are Greg Monroe and Joakim Noah. Short of amazing tryouts by either, we'd be more likely to load up on power forwards than bring in another center.
Projection: Howard.

So my starting 5 would be Paul, Kobe, Lebron, KD and Dwight. The rest of the rotation would be Rose, Williams, Wade, Blake and Love. The last two guys who will play limited minutes would be Bosh and Gordon. The last guys not to make the team - Melo and Odom.

roywhite
01-11-2012, 09:46 AM
Thanks for the roster and comments, Super Dave.

Could you clarify your position on Carmelo Anthony?
If I read that right, you were very positive about him in the Small Forward section, but then indicated he'd likely not make the team.

My guess is that he would make the team, though I don't have a firm opinion yet on who doesn't make it.

superdave
01-11-2012, 09:53 AM
Thanks for the roster and comments, Super Dave.

Could you clarify your position on Carmelo Anthony?
If I read that right, you were very positive about him in the Small Forward section, but then indicated he'd likely not make the team.

My guess is that he would make the team, though I don't have a firm opinion yet on who doesn't make it.

I think he gets cut, disguised as an injury of course. KD and Lebron can both play the 4 if we go small. If Melo were to make the team, Gordon would be left off and I think we'd rather have Gordon as a shooter than Melo.

One major caveat, we cannot project who will be healthy in 6 months. If Paul, Kobe or Wade cannot go, Melo may bump up onto the roster.

jipops
01-11-2012, 10:04 AM
Center - Chandler, Howard. Dwight could be in the midst of some crazy contract stuff and Tyson may not be healthy enough to go. I'd probably bet against Tyson making this team. We can always play Odom at center (see 2010 World Games) and Love can eat space. The only two names I would add to the list for getting possible tryouts are Greg Monroe and Joakim Noah. Short of amazing tryouts by either, we'd be more likely to load up on power forwards than bring in another center.
Projection: Howard.



What about Andrew Bynum in the mix? He is starting to have the kind of season that the Lakers have been hoping he would have. If injuries are no issue throughout the year, I don't see why he couldn't merit consideration.

wk2109
01-11-2012, 10:07 AM
I think he gets cut, disguised as an injury of course. KD and Lebron can both play the 4 if we go small. If Melo were to make the team, Gordon would be left off and I think we'd rather have Gordon as a shooter than Melo.

One major caveat, we cannot project who will be healthy in 6 months. If Paul, Kobe or Wade cannot go, Melo may bump up onto the roster.

Considering how well Melo plays in international competition I can't possibly see him not making the team. I even think there's an excellent chance that he would start ahead of KD (because KD seems like he would accept coming off the bench better than Melo would).

The starting five would be Paul, Kobe, James, Melo, and Howard, with Rose, D-Will, Wade, KD, and Bosh filling out the rest of the 10-man rotation (K generally went 9-10 deep at the Olympics).

K won't take more than 3 bigs, so the last big spot will go to Blake or Love, and I think Gordon will be the 12th man to fill the shooting specialist role.

SilkyJ
01-11-2012, 10:09 AM
Thanks for starting this, I tried to find an older thread and see if any of our predictions came to fruition, but didn't seem like we had a good set of predictions on this that I could find... My $0.02 below.

1st of all, the way I had typically broken it out was into 3 groups as opposed to 5 by each "position." As you mention, coach K will want versatility (remember Paul and D-will played together in '08 quite a bit) and so I think of it in these 3 groups: PGs, Wings, and Post Men. The distribution in 08 was

3 PGs (Kidd, Paul, Williams)
6 Wings (Kobe, Bron, Melo, Wade, Prince, Redd)
3 posts (Howard, Bosh, Boozer)

I'd expect a similar distribution this time around, and I'll use that as context in responding.


DBR linked (http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2012/01/10/exclusive-team-usas-preliminary-roster/)to this on the front page.

Point Guard - Billups, Paul, Rose, Westbrook, Williams.
Projection: Paul, Rose, Williams.

Basically, I agree. We took 3 guys here last time, and I think we take 3 again. Rose would seem a mortal lock, same with Paul if he's healthy. Deron and Westbrook will fight it out for a 3rd spot and I like Deron's shooting ability in that fight b/c of zones we'll face and the need to have shooters in the int'l game.

Projection: Paul, Rose, Williams. (same)


Shooting Guard
Projection: Kobe, Wade, Gordon.

Small Forward - Melo, Durant, James, Igoudala.
Projection: Durant, James.

(Perhaps obviously, I'm grouping the 2s & 3s together, and will do so with the 4s & 5s below to arrive at the same distribution I indicated above)

3 comments:1) Kobe's health is such an X-factor. 2) Tough for me to see Melo NOT making this team. 3) I see 6 guys coming out of this pool, not 5. Instead, I cut someone from the post group below (not Gordon, as you suggest above).

On Kobe: seems like he's going to play with a hurt wrist all year and will likely need time to heal in the off-season. He also underwent some significant treatments last year in the off-season. Basically, I think there's a real chance he doesn't play, but who the heck knows. He's a trooper, plays with injury, and loves coach K so I could also see him gutting it out.

On Melo: K loves Melo, in the int'l game especially (not to mention Boeheim is a close friend and top assistant). He's an ideal stretch 4. He started and was the 4th leading scorer on the 08 team. He's also a good shooter, which we'll need.

No discussion really required on the other guys. Durant, James, & Wade are all locks, assuming they're healthy. So basically I agree with the 5 guys you put out, though I could also easily see Steph making the team over Gordon...will be a tough tryout for them this summer. I think Gordon's size and defense likely give him the edge. And I add Melo.

Projection: Kobe, Wade, James, Gordon, Durant, Melo.


Power Forward - Aldridge, Bosh, Blake, Love, Odom.
Projection: Bosh, Blake, Love.

Center - Chandler, Howard.
Projection: Howard.

Again I group the 4s and 5s. K used Boozer, Bosh and Howard almost exclusively at the Center position during 2008, so thinking of them all in one group probably makes sense.

This one is simpler for me though: Howard is a lock, and the 2nd best player in the group is Love, imo. I'm biased tho b/c he might be my favorite non-Duke NBA player right now (just love his game) and with his shooting & pick and pop ability he's great for the Int'l game.

This leaves Chandler, Odom, Bosh, Blake, and Aldridge. I don't think Aldridge makes it, but have no idea who makes it out of the other 4. My guess is Chandler or Blake, but Bosh and Odom are also good choices.

Projection: Howard, Love, Chandler/Blake



So my starting 5 would be Paul, Kobe, Lebron, KD and Dwight. The rest of the rotation would be Rose, Williams, Wade, Blake and Love. The last two guys who will play limited minutes would be Bosh and Gordon. The last guys not to make the team - Melo and Odom.

My starting 5 is the same except swap out Rose for Paul. I think Rose's size and D, important in the physical int'l game with big guards, will give him the edge.

SilkyJ
01-11-2012, 10:14 AM
If Melo were to make the team, Gordon would be left off and I think we'd rather have Gordon as a shooter than Melo.


As I point out in my lengthier post, this isn't true. You have Howard, Bosh, Love, and Blake all making the roster. I only have 3 of them, which is the same distribution as 2008.

UrinalCake
01-11-2012, 10:29 AM
An interesting thing to watch will be the dynamics of the personalities and egos on the team, even more so this time around. In 2008 we sent mostly our top players. Then in 2010 most of those guys pulled out, so the guys that were left were labeled a B-list team. Yet they played great and several stars emerged - Durant in particular became the alpha dog, and Westbrook and Chandler also went on to have breakout years. So now that they're being put together, will Durant still be the go-to guy, or will Kobe try to maintain control? Does Westbrook get left out completely after playing so well in 2010?

Man, having Blake Griffin and Dwight Howard on the floor at the same time would be awesome. They'll have to reinforce the rims for all the monster dunks we'd see.

superdave
01-11-2012, 10:30 AM
As I point out in my lengthier post, this isn't true. You have Howard, Bosh, Love, and Blake all making the roster. I only have 3 of them, which is the same distribution as 2008.

I think you need 4 true big guys. That is one reason why Odom is so attractive because he can play the 3,4,5 spots. Bosh, Love, Howard and Odom can all play the 4 and 5. Blake may be a top 5 player by the end of this season and could earn a starting spot over Durant or James.

Back to Melo, I dont think he rebounds or plays enough defense. And he's just not necessary with Lebron and KD. I do like him though and think he makes it if someone else stays home injured or opts out. But you can only take 12.

Ichabod Drain
01-11-2012, 10:43 AM
An interesting thing to watch will be the dynamics of the personalities and egos on the team, even more so this time around. In 2008 we sent mostly our top players. Then in 2010 most of those guys pulled out, so the guys that were left were labeled a B-list team. Yet they played great and several stars emerged - Durant in particular became the alpha dog, and Westbrook and Chandler also went on to have breakout years. So now that they're being put together, will Durant still be the go-to guy, or will Kobe try to maintain control? Does Westbrook get left out completely after playing so well in 2010?

Man, having Blake Griffin and Dwight Howard on the floor at the same time would be awesome. They'll have to reinforce the rims for all the monster dunks we'd see.

I think it was more of coach K's and the orginizations intentions to bring the "B-list" team in 2010 than it was players pulling out. Mainly to get a feel for the younger up and coming players.

superdave
01-11-2012, 10:46 AM
I think it was more of coach K's and the orginizations intentions to bring the "B-list" team in 2010 than it was players pulling out. Mainly to get a feel for the younger up and coming players.

Also, some of those guys were on Free Agency: World Tour of Asshattery.

wk2109
01-11-2012, 10:56 AM
I think you need 4 true big guys. That is one reason why Odom is so attractive because he can play the 3,4,5 spots. Bosh, Love, Howard and Odom can all play the 4 and 5. Blake may be a top 5 player by the end of this season and could earn a starting spot over Durant or James.

Back to Melo, I dont think he rebounds or plays enough defense. And he's just not necessary with Lebron and KD. I do like him though and think he makes it if someone else stays home injured or opts out. But you can only take 12.

In international competition, K tends to play lots of guys "up" one position (e.g. Billups/D-Will at the 2, LBJ/Melo at the 4, Bosh/Odom at the 5). And SilkyJ is right -- K doesn't take more than 3 bigs. I've watched every Team USA game from 2006-2010 and I don't think I remember any instance where K used two true bigs on the floor at the same time. Howard, Love, and Bosh wouldn't get any time at the 4 if K continues his established style of play (Odom might, but I think he's a long shot to make the team).

Melo is devastating in the international game. His role is to put the ball in the hoop and he does it with outstanding efficiency. I think any defensive/rebounding shortcomings (which weren't noticeable at all in Beijing with all the other talent around him) don't really matter.

If Blake makes the team, it would be as the third big (i.e. 11th/12th man). The 5's role is to defend and rebound, and I think he's a little too small and not a good enough defender to anchor the team as a 5. Remember, Bosh bulked up a lot over the summer because Spoelstra wants him to get significant minutes at the 5 for the Heat. That, plus his status as an '08 member, would push him ahead of all other bigs besides Howard.

There's also a level of politics that will play a role in deciding the roster and playing time. I think the 2008 team members will have preference over anyone else besides maybe KD/Rose.

superdave
01-11-2012, 11:05 AM
In international competition, K tends to play lots of guys "up" one position (e.g. Billups/D-Will at the 2, LBJ/Melo at the 4, Bosh/Odom at the 5). And SilkyJ is right -- K doesn't take more than 3 bigs. I've watched every Team USA game from 2006-2010 and I don't think I remember any instance where K used two true bigs on the floor at the same time. Howard, Love, and Bosh wouldn't get any time at the 4 if K continues his established style of play (Odom might, but I think he's a long shot to make the team).

Melo is devastating in the international game. His role is to put the ball in the hoop and he does it with outstanding efficiency. I think any defensive/rebounding shortcomings (which weren't noticeable at all in Beijing with all the other talent around him) don't really matter.

If Blake makes the team, it would be as the third big (i.e. 11th/12th man). The 5's role is to defend and rebound, and I think he's a little too small and not a good enough defender to anchor the team as a 5. Remember, Bosh bulked up a lot over the summer because Spoelstra wants him to get significant minutes at the 5 for the Heat. That, plus his status as an '08 member, would push him ahead of all other bigs besides Howard.

There's also a level of politics that will play a role in deciding the roster and playing time. I think the 2008 team members will have preference over anyone else besides maybe KD/Rose.

Blake is averaging 23.7 and 10.6. Love is averaging 23.6 and 14.7. Bosh is averaging 19.7 and 7.8. Those guys are already better than Bosh. Bosh has a nice jumper which is an advantage over Blake. But Blake and Love very well may finish the season in the top 6-7 players in the league. That kind of momentum gives them an advantage I think.

Someone gets left off. We know that. It just depends who and why - tired legs, weak knees, uninspired tryout, unresolved NBA contract issues, injury during tryouts. All that is impossible to predict 7 months out.

superdave
01-11-2012, 11:06 AM
There's also a level of politics that will play a role in deciding the roster and playing time. I think the 2008 team members will have preference over anyone else besides maybe KD/Rose.

Why would the 2010 not have an advantage over the 2008 team? The 2008 team all opted out. Many had good reasons, but their level of commitment was not sufficient for them to join the team. Is that not a problem?

SilkyJ
01-11-2012, 11:16 AM
I think you need 4 true big guys.

Well, we didn't have 4 in 2008 and we didn't have 4 in 2010. We had 3 in both cases. In 2008 is was Boozer, Bosh, Howard, and in 2010 it was Odom, Chandler and Love.



That is one reason why Odom is so attractive because he can play the 3,4,5 spots. Bosh, Love, Howard and Odom can all play the 4 and 5.


Odom's versatility is largely irrelevant b/c he will never find himself playing the 3, or even the 4. We're just too stacked on the wing. In 2010, he played basically all of his minutes at the 5. ALL of them.


Blake may be a top 5 player by the end of this season and could earn a starting spot over Durant or James.

Blake is so good and has so much upside right now that its hard to know where he'll end up, but displacing Durant or James?! Methinks not.

I agree with WK, above. Blake will be used as a post player and he's a bit undersized so not sure if he makes it. I'm honestly not sure who makes it into that 2nd 3rd post player spot, but I think Love would be a great asset to this team and I like Chandler as well for his D, rebounding and general athleticism.

UrinalCake
01-11-2012, 11:18 AM
The 5's role is to defend and rebound

Noooooooo......

:)

A-Tex Devil
01-11-2012, 11:29 AM
I get that Westbrook has been a bit of a malcontent in the NBA, but wasn't he the go-to PG in the world championships, getting more run than Derrick Rose? Wonder if his game is better suited. Rose is clearly the superior NBA player, but we've seen how all-time greats in the NBA (Tim Duncan, for example) just can't get going in international play. Because of that, point guard is the toughest to call, and one of Paul, Westbrook, Rose and Williams isn't making the team.

Durant is Carmelo on steroids (figuratively) in my opinion and has to start, or at least get starters minutes. Carmel has been the US' best offensive player until Durant. I am also not sure you really have to play a true power forward.

A starting lineup of:

PG1
Kobe
LeBron
Durant
Howard

with Wade, PG2, Griffin and 'Melo being first of the bench, and with Chandler, PG3 and either Gordon or Love (depending on what specialty you need more of) getting limited specialist minutes.

People scoff at Chandler, but without him, there are no interior shot blockers on the team, and not a lot of great post defense either.

superdave
01-11-2012, 11:43 AM
Rose vs. Westbrook from 2010 (http://www.usabasketball.com/mens/national/2010_MWC_USA_Stats.html)
Minutes: 23 to 19
Points: 7.2 to 9.1
FG %: .458 to .468
3 %: .278 to .429
A/TO: 29/14 to 23/16
Steals: 11 to 12

superdave
01-11-2012, 11:49 AM
People scoff at Chandler, but without him, there are no interior shot blockers on the team, and not a lot of great post defense either.

I like Chandler a lot but I'm factoring in an expectation that his health may be shaky. He's averaged just over 60 games a year in his NBA career.

If we only take three post players as SilkyJ suggests, Dwight is a definite. The you pick two of Blake, Bosh, Tyson, Love and Odom. Tyson is the best defender on that list. Love is the best rebounder. Blake is the best scorer. Odom is the most versatile. Bosh is the best shooter.

I'd personally go with Blake and Love. Those guys are playing out of their minds right now. Bosh would be third.

Double DD
01-11-2012, 12:21 PM
Melo is devastating in the international game. His role is to put the ball in the hoop and he does it with outstanding efficiency. I think any defensive/rebounding shortcomings (which weren't noticeable at all in Beijing with all the other talent around him) don't really matter.


While he certainly is lacking as a defender, he's one of the best rebounding 3's in the league. It's one of his strengths and should allow him to not be a liability playing at the 4 sometimes.

ice-9
01-11-2012, 12:42 PM
Love seems like a lock to me. He's perfect for the international game - an agile big man with a jump shot and voracious rebounding. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets substantial minutes.

I would take Chandler as the third big. Experience counts for something, and Chandler will most likely play only when Howard and Love are in foul trouble. In that situation, what you probably need most is defense and that's what Chandler brings.

I'll be shocked if Odom makes the cut.

My predictions:
PG - Paul, Rose
Wings - LeBron, Durant, Wade, Melo, Kobe, Williams, Gordon
Bigs - Dwight, Love, Chandler

Think the primary look of the team will be Paul orchestrating wing weapons of Wade, Durant, and LeBron with Dwight cleaning up.

Rose comes off the bench as an offensive spark plug, running the pick and roll with Melo, Love, and penetrating and dishing to shooters.

Chandler plays only when Dwight and Love are in foul trouble. Love will close games over Dwight due to his vastly better foul shooting - yes, Love will get major minutes.

I agree with the poster who wrote that Kobe will start games but won't play a lot, though I can see him taking over when the team needs him to.

I think if Williams makes the team it'll be as a shooter, a large PG defender specialist, and backup guard in case Paul and Rose get into foul trouble. But Paul and Rose will take most of the PG minutes and I don't see Williams playing much. Not to mention Gordon.

LeBron and Durant will be the top scorers on this team at 15-20 a game. Followed by a second tier of Wade, Melo, Rose at 10-15 each. Kobe, Dwight, Paul and Love will contribute 5-10 a piece. These 9 will make the bulk of the rotation.

jipops
01-11-2012, 12:42 PM
People scoff at Chandler, but without him, there are no interior shot blockers on the team, and not a lot of great post defense either.

The 3-time NBA defensive player of the year Dwight Howard does not qualify as one of those?

roywhite
01-11-2012, 01:02 PM
Love seems like a lock to me. He's perfect for the international game - an agile big man with a jump shot and voracious rebounding. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets substantial minutes.

I would take Chandler as the third big. Experience counts for something, and Chandler will most likely play only when Howard and Love are in foul trouble. In that situation, what you probably need most is defense and that's what Chandler brings.

I'll be shocked if Odom makes the cut.

My predictions:
PG - Paul, Rose
Wings - LeBron, Durant, Wade, Melo, Kobe, Williams, Gordon
Bigs - Dwight, Love, Chandler

Think the primary look of the team will be Paul orchestrating wing weapons of Wade, Durant, and LeBron with Dwight cleaning up.

Rose comes off the bench as an offensive spark plug, running the pick and roll with Melo, Love, and penetrating and dishing to shooters.

Chandler plays only when Dwight and Love are in foul trouble. Love will close games over Dwight due to his vastly better foul shooting - yes, Love will get major minutes.

I agree with the poster who wrote that Kobe will start games but won't play a lot, though I can see him taking over when the team needs him to.

I think if Williams makes the team it'll be as a shooter, a large PG defender specialist, and backup guard in case Paul and Rose get into foul trouble. But Paul and Rose will take most of the PG minutes and I don't see Williams playing much. Not to mention Gordon. LeBron and Durant will be the top scorers on this team at 15-20 a game. Followed by a second tier of Wade, Melo, Rose at 10-15 each. Kobe, Dwight, Paul and Love will contribute 5-10 a piece. These 9 will make the bulk of the rotation.

Good comments, but I do want to highlight your comments about the PG position and the importance of defense, especially in the International game.

Coach K probably still has vivid memories of Greece running a very successful pick-and-roll near the top of the key time after time in the 2006 World Championships. That USA team could not stop it, and it had something to do with lack of size and physicality at the PG positon for us. So Paul seems very likely to make the team, and may have plenty of minutes, but he has some limitations as a defender, especially against a bigger PG (Rubio?)

So I'd guess Deron Williams does make the team in that context, and maybe Billups is not out of consideration.

superdave
01-11-2012, 01:29 PM
Good comments, but I do want to highlight your comments about the PG position and the importance of defense, especially in the International game.

Coach K probably still has vivid memories of Greece running a very successful pick-and-roll near the top of the key time after time in the 2006 World Championships. That USA team could not stop it, and it had something to do with lack of size and physicality at the PG positon for us. So Paul seems very likely to make the team, and may have plenty of minutes, but he has some limitations as a defender, especially against a bigger PG (Rubio?)

So I'd guess Deron Williams does make the team in that context, and maybe Billups is not out of consideration.

Out of Rose, Williams, Paul, Williams is the biggest and most physical, Rose next largest and quickest and Paul the smallest but most highly skilled. I think all three make it with Williams playing more at the 2 than 1. Unless Rondo or Westbrook blow up and take a spot.

mkirsh
01-11-2012, 01:40 PM
The 3-time NBA defensive player of the year Dwight Howard does not qualify as one of those?

Post defense requires different skills in FIBA play vs the NBA. In past international play, Coach K has given burn to mobile bigs like Bosh and Odom at the five who can guard on the interior, on the perimeter, and in the pick and roll. Howard will definitely make the team, but similar to 2008, in crunch time I would bet someone like Bosh or even Durant is playing the 5 to give the US a highly mobile, switchable look on D. Ultimately, I think this is why Griffin may not make the team over someone like Chris Bosh, as I think he will have a harder time adjusting to Coach K's preferred defensive scheme.

Greg_Newton
01-11-2012, 01:40 PM
Out of Rose, Williams, Paul, Williams is the biggest and most physical, Rose next largest and quickest and Paul the smallest but most highly skilled. I think all three make it with Williams playing more at the 2 than 1. Unless Rondo or Westbrook blow up and take a spot.

Rondo and Westbrook were major contributors in 2010, if I recall correctly. International players simply weren't used to that caliber of athlete ballhawking them all over the court, and it made things difficult on opposing guards.

roywhite
01-11-2012, 01:51 PM
Rondo and Westbrook were major contributors in 2010, if I recall correctly. International players simply weren't used to that caliber of athlete ballhawking them all over the court, and it made things difficult on opposing guards.

Coach K searching for good perimeter defenders? hmmmm.....where have I heard that lately?

Westbrook is such an uber athlete; how is he coming along as a defender? Could he take on a Rubio type?

UrinalCake
01-11-2012, 02:02 PM
Rondo and Westbrook were major contributors in 2010, if I recall correctly. International players simply weren't used to that caliber of athlete ballhawking them all over the court, and it made things difficult on opposing guards.

I thought Rondo got cut in 2010, or was left off of the final roster kind of late in the process. I recall there being some negative feeling towards Coach K about it, thus would be surprised if he played this time around. He's also a smaller guard and thus less valuable in international play - didn't Coach K pick an aging Jason Kidd over Chris Paul back in 2006, thus showing how much he values size at the PG?

mkirsh
01-11-2012, 02:12 PM
I thought Rondo got cut in 2010, or was left off of the final roster kind of late in the process. I recall there being some negative feeling towards Coach K about it, thus would be surprised if he played this time around. He's also a smaller guard and thus less valuable in international play - didn't Coach K pick an aging Jason Kidd over Chris Paul back in 2006, thus showing how much he values size at the PG?

I think Rondo saw the writing on the wall that was going to be the last cut and then left on his own (http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/news/story?id=5493184).

Not sure if there was any damage to the relationship


In 2008 Kidd did start and played limited minutes while Paul/Williams played large chunks of the game together. Check out the box score (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/olympics/2008/boxscores/basketball/BKM400101.html) of the Gold Medal game, this is pretty indicative of how playing time was split

Billy Dat
01-11-2012, 02:13 PM
USA Basketball – always one of my favorite topics.

While injuries will certainly help trim this list, here are my thoughts on each guy:

Definites (in order of how definite)

Kevin Durant – the MVP of the 2010 Worlds and the player K has said had the best international tournament of any player under his watch. I put him #1 based on that K quote.

Kobe Bryant – health permitting. He took over in the 2008 Olympic Gold medal game settling all, to quote Bill Simmons, “alpha dog” questions about that team. He would also be the wise leader K always craves.

Dwayne Wade – next to Kobe, our most clutch crunch time performer in Beijing. If Kobe wasn’t hitting big shots, Wade was.

Lebron James – current best player in the world and Team USA veteran (06, 08)

Dwight Howard – best USA center. Even though the international game doesn’t play to his strengths the way the NBA game does, we need his defense and physicality.

Derrick Rose – starter for the 2010 Worlds, reigning NBA MVP.

Chris Paul – like Kobe, health permitting. I agree with those who think he’ll start. A veteran of the 2006 Worlds and the 2008 Olympics and he played crunch time minutes in the latter.

Final Five:
Carmelo Anthony – not the lock that everyone seems to think. His role on the 2008 team shrank as the tournament went on. His star was brightest in the 2006 Worlds. He was on the bench down the stretch of the Gold Medal game. Still, I think his tenure and close ties with the Lebron and Wade will get him in.

Blake Griffin – they are going to want to break in some new blood for the next 10 years of competitions. I can’t see them resisting Blake Superior.

Russell Westbrook – a more important cog in 2010 than some remember. He didn’t start, but he finished practically every big game. I feel like he will edge out Deron Williams because he’s such a freak that he gets deployed as a secret weapon who enters and creates chaos with his speed.

Chris Bosh/Kevin Love/ LaMarcus Aldridge – two of the three, not sure which. My gut says Bosh & Love but Aldridge is really coming on, is much more mobile than Love, and represents the Team USA youth movement. We haven’t typically run stuff for bigs to shoot 3s which negates Love’s value a little, save for the fact that Love is a rebound machine who everyone would love to play with.

Just miss:

Deron Williams – could easily make the team, but I feel like he’s not as good as Rose and not as athletically disruptive as Westbrook.

Eric Gordon – too many guards ahead of him and, with Wade and Kobe we don’t need his shooting as much.

Lamar Odom – I put him here as opposed to the “no shot” group because despite his horrible start this season, he earned a lot of cred as a key starting cog in 2010. He represents that big man versatility that plays well in Euro ball.

No Shot

Chauncey Billups – this is ceremonial, mostly to help set the right “veteran” tone at the training camp

Tyson Chandler – Odom got the important minutes at the 2010 Worlds at the 5. Chandler was not starting for most of that tournament.

Andre Iguodala – too many better wings, despite his great performance in 2010

For those who keep adding names as potentially invited to the tryout (e.g. Steph Curry), I think this list represents the final tryout list. There will only be chances for additions based on injuries or other withdrawals.

Greg_Newton
01-11-2012, 02:20 PM
I think Rondo saw the writing on the wall that was going to be the last cut and then left on his own (http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/news/story?id=5493184).

Not sure if there was any damage to the relationship

Ahhh right, I think I was thinking of the qualifying games with the larger roster. I just remember how fun it was to watch 2 of Rose/Westbrook/Rondo ferociously going after the opposing backcourt whenever they were in... irrelevant in any case I suppose, given the volume of all-world wings available to this team. I do think 2010 was a good example of how an all-star team of athletic defenders can be just as effective as a collection of "stars" on the international stage though, so I wonder if we'll see some surprising choices in that vein.

wk2109
01-11-2012, 02:31 PM
Blake is averaging 23.7 and 10.6. Love is averaging 23.6 and 14.7. Bosh is averaging 19.7 and 7.8. Those guys are already better than Bosh. Bosh has a nice jumper which is an advantage over Blake. But Blake and Love very well may finish the season in the top 6-7 players in the league. That kind of momentum gives them an advantage I think.

I don't think offensive numbers matter (though I do like both players). Bosh is a legit 6'10"-6'11" and I think he can man the 5 more effectively than Blake and Love, who are in the 6'8"-6'9" range. I think part of the reason Boozer and Love didn't get much run in 2008 and 2010 was their lack of height.

SilkyJ
01-11-2012, 02:35 PM
USA Basketball – always one of my favorite topics.

For those who keep adding names as potentially invited to the tryout (e.g. Steph Curry), I think this list represents the final tryout list. There will only be chances for additions based on injuries or other withdrawals.

I didn't realize Steph was left off originally, so my bad for including in my thoughts...though I think Gordon would likely beat him out at tryouts anyway.

I would say though that Sheridan's brief synopsis called this the preliminary list, not the final list. I wouldn't be surprised to see a small number (maybe one or 2) of guys to be added over the course of the season as players emerge and potentially express interest. That said, Coach K and Colangelo have been adamant about "building a program" so if someone hasn't been involved with Team USA at all before, would be tough to see them added for this tryout.

wk2109
01-11-2012, 02:40 PM
Why would the 2010 not have an advantage over the 2008 team? The 2008 team all opted out. Many had good reasons, but their level of commitment was not sufficient for them to join the team. Is that not a problem?

I think the simple answer is just that the players on the 2008 team are better. If those guys are willing to make the commitment to the 2012 team, they would get dibs over the 2010 team, just like they would have gotten dibs if they were willing to play in 2010.

Billy Dat
01-11-2012, 03:03 PM
I think the simple answer is just that the players on the 2008 team are better. If those guys are willing to make the commitment to the 2012 team, they would get dibs over the 2010 team, just like they would have gotten dibs if they were willing to play in 2010.

To comment on this thread, I think I read in the K Sportsman of the Year SI piece that the reason most of the 2008 guys didn't opt-in was because some of them definitely could not go and the rest didn't want to go without their teammates. While it may be K's official spin, or his rose colored glasses, I have to take him at his word and assume there is no ill will toward the 08ers for skipping 2010. If anything, it gave us a deeper pool of players.

I wonder if they'll bring current college juniors in to play against the pros, or will they go with another "Select Team" of young pros to try and keep building the Team USA pipeline (e.g. Kyrie, John Wall, Greg Monroe, etc.)

superdave
01-11-2012, 03:11 PM
To comment on this thread, I think I read in the K Sportsman of the Year SI piece that the reason most of the 2008 guys didn't opt-in was because some of them definitely could not go and the rest didn't want to go without their teammates. While it may be K's official spin, or his rose colored glasses, I have to take him at his word and assume there is no ill will toward the 08ers for skipping 2010. If anything, it gave us a deeper pool of players.

I wonder if they'll bring current college juniors in to play against the pros, or will they go with another "Select Team" of young pros to try and keep building the Team USA pipeline (e.g. Kyrie, John Wall, Greg Monroe, etc.)

Yeah, I could see a younger team being used and membership in that younger team being required for consideration for 2014 and 2016. But Gordon, Blake, Rose and Love are a nice core going forward, assuming all four make it in 2012. Kevin Durant should be around as long as he wants. He's only 23.

A-Tex Devil
01-11-2012, 04:11 PM
The 3-time NBA defensive player of the year Dwight Howard does not qualify as one of those?

Yeah, my bad. I wrote that before I saw Dwight Howard's name on the list.

roywhite
01-11-2012, 04:51 PM
To comment on this thread, I think I read in the K Sportsman of the Year SI piece that the reason most of the 2008 guys didn't opt-in was because some of them definitely could not go and the rest didn't want to go without their teammates. While it may be K's official spin, or his rose colored glasses, I have to take him at his word and assume there is no ill will toward the 08ers for skipping 2010. If anything, it gave us a deeper pool of players.

I wonder if they'll bring current college juniors in to play against the pros, or will they go with another "Select Team" of young pros to try and keep building the Team USA pipeline (e.g. Kyrie, John Wall, Greg Monroe, etc.)

Probably vs another "Select Team"
Such a team could definitely include Kyrie, though I wonder if the 'Roos will come after him.

Starter
01-11-2012, 05:00 PM
I think Carmelo's in. He might be the best pure scorer in the league, and he was fourth on the 2008 team in scoring. For the record, he did score 13 points (in 17 minutes) in the title game.

Here's my suggested roster:

G -- Wade, Rose, Paul, Westbrook,
F -- Durant, James, Love, Bosh, Anthony, Griffin
C -- Howard, Chandler

Starting lineup of Paul, Wade, Durant, James and Howard. It really doesn't matter. If I recall, Kidd started in '08 as a formality and a show of respect, then would abdicate to Paul and Deron, who'd play the lion's share of the minutes.

I omitted Bryant. Obviously, he loves Krzyzewski and is a fierce competitor, and he loves the limelight. I don't know anything you don't know, it's just a hunch. He currently gets a painkilling shot in his wrist before every game, and it looks like a balloon after each game. More so than his knees, I just figure he's going to want to rest and heal that wrist for the NBA season, and maybe even get surgery on it. It'd be a very tough decision, but Kobe's won his medal, which might factor in. (In addition, between now and then, he has about 60 chances for someone to knock him over or something and completely ruin the wrist regardless.)

Paul is iffy, too. His knees have a shelf life, and if I'm him, I try to avoid a Brandon Roy situation and don't play. But I can't see him just not playing if he's feeling reasonably okay at the end of the season. I took out Deron thinking whatever team signs him probably won't want him to play in the first year he's under contract.

I thought Bosh played pretty well in '08. Love is the perfect international 4. I think Chandler is a must because of his defensive superiority. I'd actually be surprised if he didn't make it. I might consider Gordon (the only pure shooter on the prelim roster) over Westbrook -- for that reason -- but for health reasons, I'm not counting on him being there either.

Know why I'm not crazy about Griffin? The free throws. You already have one guy like that in Howard. But Krzyzewski may want to lay the groundwork for future teams to have Griffin involved, and he just has the feel of an Olympian.

The team I put forth up there would need Love and Durant to stretch the floor, which isn't out of the question, but presents new challenges. They're likely to want Gordon on the team, but unlike the world championships, I'm not convinced he sees major run. Redd really didn't play at all in 2008.

One thing I'm sure of: I can't wait to watch this team play.

SilkyJ
01-11-2012, 08:05 PM
...assuming Mr. Sheridan's "International Sources" are accurate, Lamarcus Aldridge would be another invitee not from a previous USA Basketball team. He has a great offensive game for a big! Some tough decisions to make there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_United_States_men%27s_Olympic_basketball_team

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_men's_national_basketball_team

While Lamarcus wasn't on either the 08 or the 10 team, he was invited to the 10 tryouts. USA basketball website confirms (http://www.usabasketball.com/bios/aldridge_lamarcus.html)

I seem to recall he couldn't participate, although it may have been he just got cut...

FellowTraveler
01-11-2012, 09:20 PM
I think Carmelo's in. He might be the best pure scorer in the league, and he was fourth on the 2008 team in scoring.

There's a pretty good chance this will sound combative, but please trust that I do not mean it to be so: What does "pure scorer" mean to you? I never understand how "pure scorer" (or, in baseball, "pure hitter") is supposed to differ from "scorer." And, in this particular case, I have difficulty imagining a definition of "pure scorer" under which Carmelo would rate higher than, say, Kevin Durant or Lebron James, both of whom score at greater volume and efficiency.

Bluedog
01-11-2012, 09:23 PM
Probably vs another "Select Team"
Such a team could definitely include Kyrie, though I wonder if the 'Roos will come after him.

Kyrie would need authorization of "exception circumstances" to play for Australia since he played for the USA Team when he was a senior in high school, which makes him ineligible to play for another country.

Here is the rule:


Item 23 - A player who has played in a main official competition of FIBA (see article -1) after having reached his seventeenth (17) birthday may not play for a national team of another country. However, in exceptional circumstances the Secretary General may authorise such a player to play for the national team of his country of origin if he is ineligible to play for such country according to this article -23 and if this is in the interest of the development of basketball in this country.

http://www.backpagelead.com.au/basketball/4277-weve-checked-the-rules-and-kyrie-irving-can-be-a-boomer-heres-how

Sounds like both USA Basketball and FIBA would have to okay the switch. Last June, Kyrie himself said he's like to play for Australia:

http://www.foxsports.com.au/other-sports/basketball/probable-no1-nba-draft-pick-kyrie-irving-wants-to-play-for-the-country-of-his-birth-australia/story-e6frf3f3-1226078424875

hustleplays
01-11-2012, 10:48 PM
I just saw this thread and greatly enjoyed reading it. Thanks to all who contributed. But...The unfortunate side-effect for me is that I now can't wait for the 2012 games to begin.

I want to add a highly technical observation: Isn't this an amazing bunch of talent?! Wow. When we are wondering whether to go with Griffin, Howard or Love; Paul, Westbrook or Williams; whether Melo makes the cut -- what anguishing dilemmas! Not to mention the coaching staff. We have a real treat in store.

Ok, feel free to rebut. :)

gep
01-11-2012, 11:04 PM
What's interesting to me is that from 1992 (original and "only" Dream Team) to 1996, there was excitement. Then 2000, if I recall, had much less interest. Then, the 2002 and 2004 meltdowns. Finally, in 2006, there was interest again, and especially in 2008. In 2010, all the "young ones" wanted IN, which I don't think happened before. I think the progression of the national teams (from senior down to the under-xx teams) having a lot of interest is great. Now, in 2012, there is much excitement again. I can't wait:cool: (of course, I like to think that Coach K had a big part of USA Basketball resurgence)

JNort
01-11-2012, 11:06 PM
I think you need 4 true big guys. That is one reason why Odom is so attractive because he can play the 3,4,5 spots. Bosh, Love, Howard and Odom can all play the 4 and 5. Blake may be a top 5 player by the end of this season and could earn a starting spot over Durant or James.

Back to Melo, I dont think he rebounds or plays enough defense. And he's just not necessary with Lebron and KD. I do like him though and think he makes it if someone else stays home injured or opts out. But you can only take 12.

Do you watch the NBA? Because Blake will not even sniff top 5 prob not even top 10:

Chris Paul, Lebron, Melo, KD, Rose, Wade, Kobe, and Dwight are significantly better than Blake. The next tier is all so close it would be tough to choose between them.

Blake is around Love, Aldridge, Westbrook, Gordon, Bosh. Not to mention he will never and I mean NEVER pass Lebron. Lebron can play pg, sg, sf and pf no problem and C if they are small enough.


Anyway I think we wont see 4 bigs considering Melo and Bron take some of the mins at the 4. If health is not an issue I think the sure fire locks are:

PG: Paul, Rose
Wings: Wade, Kobe, Melo, Bron, KD
Bigs: Howard, Love, Blake

JNort
01-11-2012, 11:13 PM
There's a pretty good chance this will sound combative, but please trust that I do not mean it to be so: What does "pure scorer" mean to you? I never understand how "pure scorer" (or, in baseball, "pure hitter") is supposed to differ from "scorer." And, in this particular case, I have difficulty imagining a definition of "pure scorer" under which Carmelo would rate higher than, say, Kevin Durant or Lebron James, both of whom score at greater volume and efficiency.

Well I must say I agree that Melo is the best pure scorer in the NBA (Actually tied with Durant). I define a good scorer from a pure scorer as someone who has the complete well rounded most balanced offensive game. Durant and Melo offensively are the greatest players in the NBA and can get their shots whenever and wherever on the court in a multitude of ways. Lebron will enter this group if he improves his post game a bit more and and gets a little more reliable as a jump shooter.

Just to clarify a pure scorer is not always the best at everything but merely great at everything offensively with not to much left to improve on that side of the ball. Both KD and Melo lack solid defense and KD lacks weight and strength and Melo could stand to become a better distributor. Also one last thing and I also do not mean to sound combative but Lebron only scores at that high of an efficiency because of how often he is around the rim and he scores as much because of his physical abilities. Once Lebron learns to expand his offensive game as a shooter and post guy he would truly be unstoppable.

dcdevil2009
01-12-2012, 12:26 AM
Anyway I think we wont see 4 bigs considering Melo and Bron take some of the mins at the 4. If health is not an issue I think the sure fire locks are:

PG: Paul, Rose
Wings: Wade, Kobe, Melo, Bron, KD
Bigs: Howard, Love, Blake

If Blake continues to develope, I'd agree that he's a lock for a spot, but I think Andrew Bynum is actually a better up and coming (if healthy) player. I doubt he plays, but his talent should dictate a spot in my mind. I think Steph curry and Deron Williams will compete for a spot. Williams is probably the better overall player, but curry fits better with the team's needs. That leaves one more spot, probably for a big, but a glue guy might be more important. Bosh? Chandler? Westbrook?

UrinalCake
01-12-2012, 12:42 AM
Something I don't see on this proposed roster is a spot-up three-point shooter, which is so valuable in the international game. The guards and wings that we've got are more slashers than pure shooters. For this reason I could see Curry having a role, even though he wasn't on the original list.

ice-9
01-12-2012, 03:12 AM
Something I don't see on this proposed roster is a spot-up three-point shooter, which is so valuable in the international game. The guards and wings that we've got are more slashers than pure shooters. For this reason I could see Curry having a role, even though he wasn't on the original list.

At first I thought you underestimated the shooting ability of the players shortlisted, but then I looked up their career 3-point percentages:

Billups: 39%
Love: 38%
Gordon: 37%
Paul: 36%
Durant: 36%
Deron: 35%
Kobe: 34%
Lebron: 33%
Iguodala: 33%
Anthony: 32%
Odom: 32%
Rose: 31%
Wade: 29%
Bosh: 29%
Westbrook: 27%

By comparison, JJ's career percentage is 39% and Curry's is 44% (wow). The numbers do make me wonder whether Chauncey is a better pick than Deron who is shooting horribly this season, and the two are roughly the same size at 6'3 and ~210 pounds. I like Love and Paul even more now, and Gordon could probably make it on the strength of his shooting.

That said, the 3-point line in the international game is closer and for some players it could make a substantial difference -- Carmelo being the primary example. Moreover, a lot of these guys are players who have to carry their teams, and thus probably shoot while more closely guarded than they would have to in the Olympics. Overall, I'm guessing they'd be better shots in the international game with their All-Star teammates creating plays for them than their NBA career percentages would suggest.

Westbrook is a freak athlete and would fit in perfectly in Coach K's aggressive perimeter, fastbreak-after-turnover defence, but he's the odd man out offensively. His jump shot isn't great and he's more of a scorer than playmaker (and the Olympic team will have the former in spades). Also, in the Thunder games I've watched, he doesn't always seem to make the best decisions. I think it's Paul and Rose and either Billups or Williams as the insurance policy.

Starter
01-12-2012, 07:17 AM
There's a pretty good chance this will sound combative, but please trust that I do not mean it to be so: What does "pure scorer" mean to you? I never understand how "pure scorer" (or, in baseball, "pure hitter") is supposed to differ from "scorer." And, in this particular case, I have difficulty imagining a definition of "pure scorer" under which Carmelo would rate higher than, say, Kevin Durant or Lebron James, both of whom score at greater volume and efficiency.

Not combative at all, those are good questions. If you get it to Carmelo on the blocks one on one, there's a real good chance he'll score. Simple as that. Durant is probably the only guy in the league you could put up against him in that regard, but late in a game, I'd take Carmelo by a hair because he's done it SO many times. (Scratch that, Kobe gives him a run for his money, with advanced age the only detraction. And Wade may actually be Carmelo's equal, when he's not banged up.) James can score big too, obviously, but it's obvious by this point it's not really his modus operandi.

Note, by the way, I am a Knicks fan, but I hate the current iteration of the team. I'm fine with Carmelo, not expecting a leopard to change his spots, but I enjoyed the prior Knicks team that had actual depth last season before the trade.

Starter
01-12-2012, 07:20 AM
There's a pretty good chance this will sound combative, but please trust that I do not mean it to be so: What does "pure scorer" mean to you? I never understand how "pure scorer" (or, in baseball, "pure hitter") is supposed to differ from "scorer." And, in this particular case, I have difficulty imagining a definition of "pure scorer" under which Carmelo would rate higher than, say, Kevin Durant or Lebron James, both of whom score at greater volume and efficiency.

By the way, as a guy who actually makes a living in baseball, pure hitter is way different than pure scorer. I'd say the baseball equivalent to "pure scorer" would be "raw power." Think Ryan Howard. A pure hitter would be Pujols or Josh Hamilton, someone who can hit it to all fields with power and has plate selection to boot. The best pure hitter I've ever seen was Bonds, for the record.

MCFinARL
01-12-2012, 07:40 AM
What's interesting to me is that from 1992 (original and "only" Dream Team) to 1996, there was excitement. Then 2000, if I recall, had much less interest. Then, the 2002 and 2004 meltdowns. Finally, in 2006, there was interest again, and especially in 2008. In 2010, all the "young ones" wanted IN, which I don't think happened before. I think the progression of the national teams (from senior down to the under-xx teams) having a lot of interest is great. Now, in 2012, there is much excitement again. I can't wait:cool: (of course, I like to think that Coach K had a big part of USA Basketball resurgence)

I think he did--along with Jerry Colangelo. What they brought to the table was the true team concept--that players would make a multi-year commitment to participate in tryouts, camps, etc. (subject to the demands of the NBA, injuries, etc.), and that they would make a commitment to team-focused play and strategy. In the meltdown years, US teams that were essentially pickup teams struggled against international teams that had experience playing together under international rules. The Colangelo-Coach K strategy was designed to counter that problem, and it succeeded admirably. That success has helped to make playing for the US seem like a special honor once again, and the feeling has filtered down to the youth teams fielded by USA Basketball, which in turn gives up-and-coming players a taste of the excitement of international competition.

superdave
01-12-2012, 07:53 AM
Do you watch the NBA? Because Blake will not even sniff top 5 prob not even top 10:

Chris Paul, Lebron, Melo, KD, Rose, Wade, Kobe, and Dwight are significantly better than Blake. The next tier is all so close it would be tough to choose between them.

Blake is around Love, Aldridge, Westbrook, Gordon, Bosh. Not to mention he will never and I mean NEVER pass Lebron. Lebron can play pg, sg, sf and pf no problem and C if they are small enough.


Anyway I think we wont see 4 bigs considering Melo and Bron take some of the mins at the 4. If health is not an issue I think the sure fire locks are:

PG: Paul, Rose
Wings: Wade, Kobe, Melo, Bron, KD
Bigs: Howard, Love, Blake

The NBA? What's that?

Blake will be starting for the West in the All-Star game and will probably be 2nd team All-NBA this year. Could sneak into the 1st team. I'd also go so far as to say he wont choke every 4th quarter the way Lebron does. Being the best player in the league the first 3 quarters is great, but leaves a little to be desired.

SilkyJ
01-12-2012, 08:34 AM
If Blake continues to develope, I'd agree that he's a lock for a spot, but I think Andrew Bynum is actually a better up and coming (if healthy) player. I doubt he plays, but his talent should dictate a spot in my mind. I think Steph curry and Deron Williams will compete for a spot. Williams is probably the better overall player, but curry fits better with the team's needs. That leaves one more spot, probably for a big, but a glue guy might be more important. Bosh? Chandler? Westbrook?


Something I don't see on this proposed roster is a spot-up three-point shooter, which is so valuable in the international game. The guards and wings that we've got are more slashers than pure shooters. For this reason I could see Curry having a role, even though he wasn't on the original list.

As someone else pointed out, Curry is not currently listed on the 19-man roster.

Gordon and Curry filled the spot-up shooter role (aka Michael Redd role) on the 2010 team. But honestly, Redd didn't really play that much in 2008. He was used situationally at best, and in the later games hardly played. He only averaged 3.1 ppg.

Curry could fill that role well, but Gordon outplayed him in 2010 and shot well from 3 (19-42) and was the 4th leading scorer at 8.6ppg (though about 6 guys averaged between 7-10ppg as Durant mainly filled it up). Not to mention Gordon's size helps him in the int'l game where handchecking, physical play on the perimeter is the norm. (The 3 pt line is about 1.5 feet shorter than the NBA line too, so that helps Gordon).

FellowTraveler
01-12-2012, 08:38 AM
By the way, as a guy who actually makes a living in baseball, pure hitter is way different than pure scorer. I'd say the baseball equivalent to "pure scorer" would be "raw power." Think Ryan Howard. A pure hitter would be Pujols or Josh Hamilton, someone who can hit it to all fields with power and has plate selection to boot. The best pure hitter I've ever seen was Bonds, for the record.

Interesting. I've heard the term "pure hitter" most often applied to guys like Wade Boggs & Tony Gwynn who hit for high average and don't strike out much and may or may not have power. See also Posnanski (http://joeposnanski.si.com/2009/10/17/best-pure-hitters/). FWIW I like your definition better; any usage of "pure hitter" that would rank Paul Molitor ahead of Barry Bonds is pretty flawed in my book. Though, to complete the circle, I wouldn't say "pure hitter," I'd just say "hitter," both to avoid confusion and because I don't think the word "pure" adds anything.

Similarly, if I read you correctly, you seem to define "pure scorer" as "guy who is most difficult to stop in his favored position." ("If you get it to Carmelo on the blocks one on one, there's a real good chance he'll score. Simple as that.") Meanwhile, JNort agrees Melo is the best pure scorer because "I define a good scorer from a pure scorer as someone who has the complete well rounded most balanced offensive game." (I assume by "offensive game" he means "scoring game.") Those are nearly opposite definitions -- well-rounded vs. possessing a dominent go-to move.

superdave
01-12-2012, 08:46 AM
Interesting. I've heard the term "pure hitter" most often applied to guys like Wade Boggs & Tony Gwynn who hit for high average and don't strike out much and may or may not have power. See also Posnanski (http://joeposnanski.si.com/2009/10/17/best-pure-hitters/). FWIW I like your definition better; any usage of "pure hitter" that would rank Paul Molitor ahead of Barry Bonds is pretty flawed in my book. Though, to complete the circle, I wouldn't say "pure hitter," I'd just say "hitter," both to avoid confusion and because I don't think the word "pure" adds anything.

Similarly, if I read you correctly, you seem to define "pure scorer" as "guy who is most difficult to stop in his favored position." ("If you get it to Carmelo on the blocks one on one, there's a real good chance he'll score. Simple as that.") Meanwhile, JNort agrees Melo is the best pure scorer because "I define a good scorer from a pure scorer as someone who has the complete well rounded most balanced offensive game." (I assume by "offensive game" he means "scoring game.") Those are nearly opposite definitions -- well-rounded vs. possessing a dominent go-to move.


Yeah, Melo is equally good on the blocks with his back to the basket as he is creating space to hit a jumper and getting by his man with a quick step. A good contrast is Kobe who is an amazing offensive player partially because he works so hard and hits a pretty good percentage of difficult, contest shots. But it all comes easier to Melo than Kobe.

As for Gwynn, Molitor and Boggs, they are great contact hitters but none of them drove the ball quite like Bonds, Pujols or Griffey.

Billy Dat
01-12-2012, 09:08 AM
I think he did--along with Jerry Colangelo. What they brought to the table was the true team concept--that players would make a multi-year commitment to participate in tryouts, camps, etc. (subject to the demands of the NBA, injuries, etc.), and that they would make a commitment to team-focused play and strategy. In the meltdown years, US teams that were essentially pickup teams struggled against international teams that had experience playing together under international rules. The Colangelo-Coach K strategy was designed to counter that problem, and it succeeded admirably. That success has helped to make playing for the US seem like a special honor once again, and the feeling has filtered down to the youth teams fielded by USA Basketball, which in turn gives up-and-coming players a taste of the excitement of international competition.

I'll add to this that Colangelo, before accepting the job, demanded, basically, unlimited financial resources which the NBA agreed to. Where, in the past, the program was run out of the Olympic training facilities or less than "pro-level" accommodations, everything is now 100% 5 star. They always hold camps in Vegas, which the players love. They stay at the Wynn. They have, literally, an army of staff to keep these guys healthy (strength coaches, massages, physical therapists) and to wait on them hand and foot. They also got out in front of the player attrition problem by inventing the Select Team that scrimmages the Senior National Team and serves as a pipeline for future players. Of the 2010 team, the vast majority of the players were select team guys in 2007, 2008 and 2009. The huge question is, who is going to take over for Colangelo and K? I think it is vital that Colangelo remain after K to ensure continuity, although I bet K remains in some kind of advisor role, and I think he's a shoe-in to one day hold Colangelo's job running the whole program, after he retires, hopefully in 2030.


Gordon and Curry filled the spot-up shooter role (aka Michael Redd role) on the 2010 team. But honestly, Redd didn't really play that much in 2008. He was used situationally at best, and in the later games hardly played. He only averaged 3.1 ppg. Curry could fill that role well, but Gordon outplayed him in 2010 and shot well from 3 (19-42) and was the 4th leading scorer at 8.6ppg (though about 6 guys averaged between 7-10ppg as Durant mainly filled it up). Not to mention Gordon's size helps him in the int'l game where handchecking, physical play on the perimeter is the norm. (The 3 pt line is about 1.5 feet shorter than the NBA line too, so that helps Gordon).

FIBA has been gradually changing it's court specs to match the NBA. They recently adopted the rectangle lane and extended the 3 point line to 22'2" (NBA varies from 22" in the corner to 23' 7" at max). I am guessing our guys have shot better from 3 in FIBA ball than they do in the NBA, but I haven't looked up the percentages. Still, at least to my eye, as others have mentioned, I don't see us needing a specialist marksman type as the standard do everything superstars that we have (Kobe, Wade, Melo) knock down that FIBA 3 with regularity.

But, like Silky, I am a huge Eric Gordon fan and he played great in 2010. This Team USA is starting to remind me of women's gymnastics - as I think about who can/will make the team, I am starting to think of guys like Chris Paul (26) and Deron Williams (27) as old compared to Gordon, Westbrook, etc.

Reilly
01-12-2012, 09:22 AM
... This Team USA is starting to remind me of women's gymnastics .....

We'll be there when K scoops up a sobbing Russel Westbrook after an ankle turn, and carries him from the court.

Billy Dat
01-12-2012, 09:25 AM
By the way, in a bit of a Team USA try-outs preview, Melo and Iguodala were GOING AT IT last night in the Knicks v Sixers game - an intense mano-a-mano that got really testy at times. They guarded each other the whole game, and were trading buckets over an intense stretch of the third. Iggy's trying to make his case!

By the way, is it too much to ask that the training camp open with a 2008 Team vs the 2010 Team game that is shown on TV?

superdave
01-12-2012, 09:55 AM
By the way, is it too much to ask that the training camp open with a 2008 Team vs the 2010 Team game that is shown on TV?

Duuuuuuuuude. We need to start a letter writing campaign!

sagegrouse
01-12-2012, 10:02 AM
The huge question is, who is going to take over for Colangelo and K? I think it is vital that Colangelo remain after K to ensure continuity, although I bet K remains in some kind of advisor role, and I think he's a shoe-in to one day hold Colangelo's job running the whole program, after he retires, hopefully in 2030.


I have always thought that the successor to Colangelo as head of USA basketball would be .............................. Coach K. I think K is a fixture with USA basketball, and I don't think he is gonna be the USA coach after this summer.

sage

Starter
01-12-2012, 10:16 AM
Interesting. I've heard the term "pure hitter" most often applied to guys like Wade Boggs & Tony Gwynn who hit for high average and don't strike out much and may or may not have power. See also Posnanski (http://joeposnanski.si.com/2009/10/17/best-pure-hitters/). FWIW I like your definition better; any usage of "pure hitter" that would rank Paul Molitor ahead of Barry Bonds is pretty flawed in my book. Though, to complete the circle, I wouldn't say "pure hitter," I'd just say "hitter," both to avoid confusion and because I don't think the word "pure" adds anything.

Similarly, if I read you correctly, you seem to define "pure scorer" as "guy who is most difficult to stop in his favored position." ("If you get it to Carmelo on the blocks one on one, there's a real good chance he'll score. Simple as that.") Meanwhile, JNort agrees Melo is the best pure scorer because "I define a good scorer from a pure scorer as someone who has the complete well rounded most balanced offensive game." (I assume by "offensive game" he means "scoring game.") Those are nearly opposite definitions -- well-rounded vs. possessing a dominent go-to move.


The last time I had my words analyzed this closely, I was on the stand. Luckily, I had a good lawyer!

To simplify it a little more, I'd define a pure scorer as someone with a scoring mentality and the ability to score a lot of points. They mostly get it to Carmelo posting up because it's easiest, then he usually immediately faces up, but I think to analyze this any more closely than that is solely to split hairs for the sake of doing so. I also thought my definition and JNort's weren't exactly mutually exclusive.

I think the definition of pure hitter has changed over the years. I don't hear Ichiro thought of in that sense nearly as much as I do someone like Pujols, who brings literally everything to the table. I'd actually agree with the majority of Posnanski's list, except for Gwynn and Boggs. This isn't to take away from Gwynn or Boggs, both of whom I liked a lot, but I mean, do they even come close to stacking up with Ted Williams? (Williams would probably be my No. 1 since 1947. It'd be very difficult to pick between Bonds and Aaron for No. 2. I think I'd have Mays fourth, though Pujols is right there.)

Billy Dat
01-12-2012, 10:28 AM
I have always thought that the successor to Colangelo as head of USA basketball would be .............................. Coach K. I think K is a fixture with USA basketball, and I don't think he is gonna be the USA coach after this summer.

sage

Agree completely...and it may be a digression for this thread, but who will coach next? You assume it would have to be one of the assistants - D'Antoni, Boeheim or McMillan - because they have the experience, along with Jay Triano who replaced D'Antoni at the 2010 Worlds. But, it's a big ask. These guys have been giving up all these summers, too. Of the existing collection, I think McMillan is a natural because he is defense focused, and has the best streak of W-L among the existing pool. D'Antoni, of course, understands the FIBA game really well, and may have some time on his hands if this season doesn't go well for the Knicks. Boeheim, I think, is not charismatic enough to be the front man. I have to think they'll keep it in the "family" of guys who have been part of this culture which rules out the other, in my mind, likely guys such as Phil Jackson or Gregg Popovich (who was part of the 2004 debacle - though it wasn't his fault). I think it's McMillan or Boeheim, and I see Jay Wright, maybe, being elevated up to the staff as he has been paying his Team USA dues for years now. But, they'll need to get other NBA coaches involved...I wonder who they will go with?

SilkyJ
01-12-2012, 10:30 AM
FIBA has been gradually changing it's court specs to match the NBA. They recently adopted the rectangle lane and extended the 3 point line to 22'2" (NBA varies from 22" in the corner to 23' 7" at max). I am guessing our guys have shot better from 3 in FIBA ball than they do in the NBA, but I haven't looked up the percentages. Still, at least to my eye, as others have mentioned, I don't see us needing a specialist marksman type as the standard do everything superstars that we have (Kobe, Wade, Melo) knock down that FIBA 3 with regularity.

But, like Silky, I am a huge Eric Gordon fan and he played great in 2010. This Team USA is starting to remind me of women's gymnastics - as I think about who can/will make the team, I am starting to think of guys like Chris Paul (26) and Deron Williams (27) as old compared to Gordon, Westbrook, etc.

Minor nitpick: the NBA line is actually 23'9" at the max (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-point_field_goal), so like I said, about 1.5 ft shorter than the max of 22'2" for FIBA...though as you point out, in the corners its the same.

I don't know if our guys actually do knock down a higher % from 3 in int'l competition. My guess is yes, but the ball is also slightly smaller, which would theoretically help, but only after the guys have had time to adjust to it. Shooting is so much muscle memory that when you initially start using a smaller ball your shots are long and it takes a bit to compensate.

All that said, having a specialist on the bench for when we get zoned or on a cold shooting night is definitely a good thing. And Gordon is pretty athletic too, much more so than Redd was, and can contribute better defensively and in other ways on offense.

jv001
01-12-2012, 10:32 AM
Well, we didn't have 4 in 2008 and we didn't have 4 in 2010. We had 3 in both cases. In 2008 is was Boozer, Bosh, Howard, and in 2010 it was Odom, Chandler and Love.



Odom's versatility is largely irrelevant b/c he will never find himself playing the 3, or even the 4. We're just too stacked on the wing. In 2010, he played basically all of his minutes at the 5. ALL of them.



Blake is so good and has so much upside right now that its hard to know where he'll end up, but displacing Durant or James?! Methinks not.

I agree with WK, above. Blake will be used as a post player and he's a bit undersized so not sure if he makes it. I'm honestly not sure who makes it into that 2nd 3rd post player spot, but I think Love would be a great asset to this team and I like Chandler as well for his D, rebounding and general athleticism.

Maybe he could get James's minutes in the closing stages of the game. LaBrick doesn't close games very well. GoDuke!

Billy Dat
01-12-2012, 11:31 AM
Minor nitpick: the NBA line is actually 23'9" at the max (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-point_field_goal), so like I said, about 1.5 ft shorter than the max of 22'2" for FIBA...though as you point out, in the corners its the same.

I don't know if our guys actually do knock down a higher % from 3 in int'l competition. My guess is yes, but the ball is also slightly smaller, which would theoretically help, but only after the guys have had time to adjust to it. Shooting is so much muscle memory that when you initially start using a smaller ball your shots are long and it takes a bit to compensate.

All that said, having a specialist on the bench for when we get zoned or on a cold shooting night is definitely a good thing. And Gordon is pretty athletic too, much more so than Redd was, and can contribute better defensively and in other ways on offense.

You are selling me on Gordon as I am remembering how his role grew in 2010 over the course of the tournament. I think it is he or Westbrook - why am I so down on Deron Williams? I am not sure why I am writing him off so quickly. If we look at the 2008 PGs, the depth chart really was Paul, Williams, Kidd (with Kidd getting the starting role as a Captain and Leader). In 2010, it was Rose, Westbrook, Gordon but Westbrook and Gordon were really coming on. Gordon is probably the best combo of PG skills, size and shooting of any of them. Rose and Williams are just as big and strong, Williams is probably the second best shooter, Paul is the best PG in terms of running a team, Gordon is probably the best shooter, Westbrook is the best athlete - even better than Rose which is saying something. What a competition that will be.

JNort
01-12-2012, 01:14 PM
The NBA? What's that?

Blake will be starting for the West in the All-Star game and will probably be 2nd team All-NBA this year. Could sneak into the 1st team. I'd also go so far as to say he wont choke every 4th quarter the way Lebron does. Being the best player in the league the first 3 quarters is great, but leaves a little to be desired.

I am starting to think you may just be a Lebron hate. You do realize he has been one of the most efficient and dominant players in the 4th quarter right? Just because of 2 series you should not forget his 8 other years worth of games. I am not sure I understand your point on Blake either?

superdave
01-12-2012, 01:42 PM
I am starting to think you may just be a Lebron hate. You do realize he has been one of the most efficient and dominant players in the 4th quarter right? Just because of 2 series you should not forget his 8 other years worth of games. I am not sure I understand your point on Blake either?

Well, it is fun to hate on LeBron. I do admit that. But he's a choker. He earned that title in the NBA Finals last year. That performance will follow him the rest of his career. More Karl Malone than Michael Jordan.

I think Blake is a lock for 2nd Team All-NBA this year and could make the 1st Team, more likely over Durant this season than over James. But he's getting better and better at a trajectory that suggests he'll be a top 5 player in the league for a while. Would you disagree with that statement?

Wheat/"/"/"
01-12-2012, 07:40 PM
Blake Griffin has to have a spot on the team. I'd say only Durant, LaBron, Howard, Kobe and maybe Wade are ahead of him in the pecking order for this olympics.

He has one of the brightest futures of any NBA player. USA basketball knows it too.

Coach K will unleash him on an unsuspecting world and it will be ugly.

UrinalCake
01-12-2012, 07:48 PM
Seems like an appropriate place to put this. Probably the greatest dunk ever. The French commentary makes this video even better.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMrPjl-927Q

Wheat/"/"/"
01-12-2012, 07:54 PM
Seems like an appropriate place to put this. Probably the greatest dunk ever. The French commentary makes this video even better.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMrPjl-927Q

Does anyone doubt that there's not something similar if not better in store for some flat footed european when Blake takes the floor for team USA?

Starter
01-12-2012, 08:46 PM
Does anyone doubt that there's not something similar if not better in store for some flat footed european when Blake takes the floor for team USA?

Just like it took a guy with some pretty amazing hops to make that happen, there is only one Frederic Weis. Probably my least favorite Knick of all time, which says a lot given that they traded for Larry Hughes and Chris Wilcox in one day.

blazindw
01-12-2012, 09:01 PM
Seems like an appropriate place to put this. Probably the greatest dunk ever. The French commentary makes this video even better.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMrPjl-927Q

I was a freshman at Duke when this happened. We were watching it live in our dorm...I've never been louder for a dunk in my life.

UrinalCake
01-12-2012, 10:25 PM
I love when the commentator calls Weiss a "mouton" (sheep). And that people are still commenting on the clip in YouTube, six years later.

Billy Dat
01-12-2012, 11:16 PM
I love when the commentator calls Weiss a "mouton" (sheep). And that people are still commenting on the clip in YouTube, six years later.

Is there any doubt that this is the greatest dunk in the history of basketball - not for time and circumstance (that may be Lorenzo Charles) - but for the pure essence of what a dunk is supposed to be - namely - "#%^$@ yo Mama!"

Dev11
01-13-2012, 11:26 AM
Is there any doubt that this is the greatest dunk in the history of basketball - not for time and circumstance (that may be Lorenzo Charles) - but for the pure essence of what a dunk is supposed to be - namely - "#%^$@ yo Mama!"

I think the great part is watching the view from above, where clearly the defender is in a position to take a charge and Vince easily has three other dudes in blue to pass to...and doesn't. Draw that one on a white board and try to explain the logic of his choice, it would be impossible. The only thing you can do is watch the footage.

Nasty.

Billy Dat
01-13-2012, 11:42 AM
I think the great part is watching the view from above, where clearly the defender is in a position to take a charge and Vince easily has three other dudes in blue to pass to...and doesn't. Draw that one on a white board and try to explain the logic of his choice, it would be impossible. The only thing you can do is watch the footage.

Nasty.

The other thing I love is that this dunk is, without doubt, the high water mark of Vince Carter's basketball career. It is, by far, the most prominent POSITIVE thing that will ever be remembered about his on court career. The list of negatives is quite long. A truly vapor-thin zenith for a "had the talent to be an All Timer but didn't have the drive/heart" player. Not that I am likely to get much push-back on this board, but I say all of the above because Vince is fun to poke fun at. Obviously, his career has been fine, but he had a chance to be Hall of Fame good.

CDu
01-13-2012, 12:28 PM
The other thing I love is that this dunk is, without doubt, the high water mark of Vince Carter's basketball career. It is, by far, the most prominent POSITIVE thing that will ever be remembered about his on court career. The list of negatives is quite long. A truly vapor-thin zenith for a "had the talent to be an All Timer but didn't have the drive/heart" player. Not that I am likely to get much push-back on this board, but I say all of the above because Vince is fun to poke fun at. Obviously, his career has been fine, but he had a chance to be Hall of Fame good.

There was a time, early in both of their careers, when there was legitimate discussion to be had as to whether Vince Carter or Kobe Bryant was "the next Michael Jordan." Carter sort of plateaued though, and never made that next jump.

Part of it was that he was never surrounded by the talent that Kobe was. He played on some bad Toronto teams, and then on a decent but not great New Jersey team with Kidd and a young Jefferson. And by the time he was finally paired with another elite superstar in Orlando, he was well past his prime. Kobe, on the other hand, had Shaq early and Gasol/Odom/Bynum late.

But yes, he had all the talent to be every bit as good as Kobe Bryant (in fact, their stat lines are fairly similar), but the combination of being on the wrong team and not having that killer instinct made the difference.

UrinalCake
01-13-2012, 03:08 PM
Other things to love about this video:

- Garnett almost getting punched in the face, then trying to "out-crazy" Carter in his reaction even while the French team is inbounding the ball.
- The commentators giggling like school girls while describing their own player being humiliated
- The crowd reaction after the last replay, which must have coincided with it being shown on the jumbotron

JNort
01-13-2012, 04:00 PM
Well, it is fun to hate on LeBron. I do admit that. But he's a choker. He earned that title in the NBA Finals last year. That performance will follow him the rest of his career. More Karl Malone than Michael Jordan.

I think Blake is a lock for 2nd Team All-NBA this year and could make the 1st Team, more likely over Durant this season than over James. But he's getting better and better at a trajectory that suggests he'll be a top 5 player in the league for a while. Would you disagree with that statement?

I disagree, after they win this year and if Lebron does really really well during the finals he will lose that stupid perception. I do not see why people hate Lebron in the first place but that is not a good topic for this thread.

Anywhooo... Blake could make 2nd or 1st team all NBA yes but more likely because of his highlight reel dunks than actual stats. I also disagree that he projects as a top 5 guy. He will never and I do mean never pass until they retire or get washed up: Kobe, Melo, Wade, Bron, Paul, Durant, Howard, Rose. He still is also not better than Pau Gasol, Amare, Deron Williams, Andrew Bynum (this years version), Rondo (If he keeps up his scoring), and Dirk. He is in that 2nd group I listed but better than none. Also the young up and coming guys could have a say so: Monroe, Cousins, Kyrie, Rubio, and Knight all are having stellar starts but just because they do not dunk all the time like Blake does not mean they are not better basketball players (again not saying they are but they could become better).

If Blake never develops his post game, rebounding, mid-range and overall defense then he will never amount to elite status. He will age like everyone else does and will lose his athleticism then he will become a below average player just like what happened to Tracy Mcgrady. Adding to your game is how Kobe is still tearing people up and players like T-Mac and Vince Carter have tapered off. I hope he does add to the fundamentals cause I would love to see what he could become.

Starter
01-13-2012, 07:07 PM
I disagree, after they win this year and if Lebron does really really well during the finals he will lose that stupid perception. I do not see why people hate Lebron in the first place but that is not a good topic for this thread.

Anywhooo... Blake could make 2nd or 1st team all NBA yes but more likely because of his highlight reel dunks than actual stats. I also disagree that he projects as a top 5 guy. He will never and I do mean never pass until they retire or get washed up: Kobe, Melo, Wade, Bron, Paul, Durant, Howard, Rose. He still is also not better than Pau Gasol, Amare, Deron Williams, Andrew Bynum (this years version), Rondo (If he keeps up his scoring), and Dirk. He is in that 2nd group I listed but better than none. Also the young up and coming guys could have a say so: Monroe, Cousins, Kyrie, Rubio, and Knight all are having stellar starts but just because they do not dunk all the time like Blake does not mean they are not better basketball players (again not saying they are but they could become better).

If Blake never develops his post game, rebounding, mid-range and overall defense then he will never amount to elite status. He will age like everyone else does and will lose his athleticism then he will become a below average player just like what happened to Tracy Mcgrady. Adding to your game is how Kobe is still tearing people up and players like T-Mac and Vince Carter have tapered off. I hope he does add to the fundamentals cause I would love to see what he could become.

Blake averaged 23 and 12 in his first full season. He's obviously not a finished product, but... doesn't that make him seem even better? He's not a perfect player, but health permitting, there's no reason not to expect him to be one of the absolute best players in basketball for years to come.

JNort
01-13-2012, 07:47 PM
Blake averaged 23 and 12 in his first full season. He's obviously not a finished product, but... doesn't that make him seem even better? He's not a perfect player, but health permitting, there's no reason not to expect him to be one of the absolute best players in basketball for years to come.

Yes true but T-mac and Vince are/were the same way. I just do not think he can be considered elite until he can become a threat in some other way than just being athletic. But yes I do expect him to become one of the best and improve in some of those areas but I also realize he may not do that. I want to see some effort and hopefully having Chris Paul does not make him less motivated to improve because Chris right now is the one creating the opportunities and he wont be there forever.

Starter
01-13-2012, 09:32 PM
Yes true but T-mac and Vince are/were the same way. I just do not think he can be considered elite until he can become a threat in some other way than just being athletic. But yes I do expect him to become one of the best and improve in some of those areas but I also realize he may not do that. I want to see some effort and hopefully having Chris Paul does not make him less motivated to improve because Chris right now is the one creating the opportunities and he wont be there forever.

True, time will tell. I think it bodes well for Blake that he put up massive numbers last year as a rookie with an out of shape malcontent as his point guard half the year and Mo Williams the other. I've seen no evidence that he lacks in motivation or attitude, quite the opposite in fact. And the free throws are an issue, but it's not like Tim Duncan (for example) has been the second coming of Rick Barry.

I don't think either McGrady or Vince coasted on their athleticism, by the way -- the cousins both developed lethal midrange jump shots. McGrady was first-team All-NBA twice and second team three times. I'd say he was elite. And honestly, I thought McGrady got a bad rap because of his droopy facial expressions projecting an air of aloofness and some dumb comments about having a private jet. I'm not sure Vince was elite, per se, and he obviously gave up on the Raptors at the end there, but he did score 20 ppg every season for a decade. Not easy to do.

UrinalCake
01-13-2012, 09:50 PM
McGrady also had injuries throughout his career, so he does have that as a justifiable excuse. Honestly he seems to me like a guy who would have benefitted from a year or two of college. I remember reading an article about him during his rookie year where he said all he did off the court was sit in his hotel and play video games. Perhaps with a more mature perspective of the world he'd have found a little more joy and inner drive.

The truly elite superstars have something innate in them that drives them to always get better. Other guys are content to be pretty good, rest on their talents and still make a lot of money. Honestly if I had the skills to be an NBA player I'd probably fall into this category.

Starter
01-13-2012, 10:18 PM
McGrady also had injuries throughout his career, so he does have that as a justifiable excuse. Honestly he seems to me like a guy who would have benefitted from a year or two of college. I remember reading an article about him during his rookie year where he said all he did off the court was sit in his hotel and play video games. Perhaps with a more mature perspective of the world he'd have found a little more joy and inner drive.

The truly elite superstars have something innate in them that drives them to always get better. Other guys are content to be pretty good, rest on their talents and still make a lot of money. Honestly if I had the skills to be an NBA player I'd probably fall into this category.

It's bad luck, too. McGrady never got to play with a healthy Grant Hill on Orlando, and Houston couldn't keep Yao Ming on the court. McGrady had to do it himself a lot of the time, and it wore him down, especially in the playoffs. By the time they had that team with Battier that won 20 in a row, T-Mac was broken down. I just feel he got a bit of a bad rap considering how totally awesome he was. I just feel like, video games or not, how do you average 32/6.5/5.5 in a season if you're coasting?

SilkyJ
01-16-2012, 01:14 PM
Bump. Official 20 man roster out today from USA basketball (http://www.usabasketball.com/mens/national/12_Moly_Finalists.html). Only difference b/w this and the 19 man roster Sheridan reported is the addition of Rudy Gay, which makes sense.

Unfortunately for Rudy, he plays the most crowded position on the team out on the wing where Lebron, Durant and Melo all play SF not to mention Kobe, Wade, and Iguodola. If Kobe or Wade don't play bc of injury, then that opens up a spot for Gay potentially, but otherwise hard to see him making the final cut. He didn't play a ton in 2010, we're completely stacked on the wing, and I think the team will have more than enough offensive firepower so if K did want to bump an extra wing onto the team to fill the 11/12th man spot it would be Iguodala b/c of his defense.

-bdbd
01-16-2012, 07:33 PM
Bump. Official 20 man roster out today from USA basketball (http://www.usabasketball.com/mens/national/12_Moly_Finalists.html). Only difference b/w this and the 19 man roster Sheridan reported is the addition of Rudy Gay, which makes sense.

Unfortunately for Rudy, he plays the most crowded position on the team out on the wing where Lebron, Durant and Melo all play SF not to mention Kobe, Wade, and Iguodola. If Kobe or Wade don't play bc of injury, then that opens up a spot for Gay potentially, but otherwise hard to see him making the final cut. He didn't play a ton in 2010, we're completely stacked on the wing, and I think the team will have more than enough offensive firepower so if K did want to bump an extra wing onto the team to fill the 11/12th man spot it would be Iguodala b/c of his defense.



Gosh, I just love having K's photo at the top of that article talking about the 2012 US Olympic BB team. I love our chances (and it is all bad for Duke either...:rolleyes:).

Here's another link:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/us-chooses-20-player-mens-olympic-basketball-pool-adds-griffin-aldridge/2012/01/16/gIQAwmSY3P_story.html


Just can't wait to see them in action. I sure hope the chemistry is there, as this group could be as good as the original dream team I think!

WOW! Paul, Kobe, Wade, Lebron, Durant, Bosh, Mello, Howard or Griffin
... that will be real tough selecting just 5 starters!
Can their second 5 play for the Silver???
:rolleyes:
The Americans announced the 20 players who will be candidates for the London Games, adding Blake Griffin of the Clippers and LaMarcus Aldridge of Portland to the 18 holdovers from either the 2008 Olympics or 2010 world championship who have said they wish to be considered again.

The 12-man roster and alternates for the Olympics will be chosen from the new player pool in June.

Returning from the team that won gold in Beijing are: Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Carmelo Anthony, Dwight Howard, Chris Paul and Deron Williams. Back from the reigning world champions are: Kevin Durant, Derrick Rose, Tyson Chandler, Eric Gordon, Rudy Gay, Kevin Love, Lamar Odom, Chauncey Billups, Russell Westbrook and Andre Iguodala.

Newton_14
01-16-2012, 08:58 PM
There was a time, early in both of their careers, when there was legitimate discussion to be had as to whether Vince Carter or Kobe Bryant was "the next Michael Jordan." Carter sort of plateaued though, and never made that next jump.

Part of it was that he was never surrounded by the talent that Kobe was. He played on some bad Toronto teams, and then on a decent but not great New Jersey team with Kidd and a young Jefferson. And by the time he was finally paired with another elite superstar in Orlando, he was well past his prime. Kobe, on the other hand, had Shaq early and Gasol/Odom/Bynum late.

But yes, he had all the talent to be every bit as good as Kobe Bryant (in fact, their stat lines are fairly similar), but the combination of being on the wrong team and not having that killer instinct made the difference.

Just my take, but I can't go with the bad team argument with Carter. Guys with his talent should dominate night in and night out no matter how good or bad the team is. Look how long Jordan dominated before finally getting some help. I think the argument has merit in some cases (Laettner for example, due to having to play out of position).

With Carter though, he just never had the desire to put in the work required to reach the level he should have reached. Guy had talent in droves. Imagine if he worked as hard as JJ for example..

He had the tools.. all of them...

superdave
01-17-2012, 10:40 AM
No new news though (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/sam_amick/01/16/2012.us.olympic.finalists/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_wr_a4).

superdave
01-31-2012, 08:58 AM
Check out (http://deadspin.com/5880763/blake-griffin-just-dunked-on-the-entire-perkins-family-tree) the Blake Griffin dunk on Kendrick Perkins. I hope Blake makes the trip to London so he can bump the Vince Carter Olympic dunk from the top spot.

COYS
01-31-2012, 09:06 AM
Check out (http://deadspin.com/5880763/blake-griffin-just-dunked-on-the-entire-perkins-family-tree) the Blake Griffin dunk on Kendrick Perkins. I hope Blake makes the trip to London so he can bump the Vince Carter Olympic dunk from the top spot.

In many ways, this was a better Dunk than the VC dunk, as awesome as the VC dunk was. Perkins is a big bodied defender who is known for blocking shots and blocking the rim at all costs. This was not a ticky-tack foul. Perkins hit Griffin pretty hard. This is also different than the defender on VC's dunk who was trying to draw a charge and had his hands down before moving his head to avoid any additional contact. Perkins was literally blocking Blake's path to the basket while jumping with hands outstretched, bringing his considerable strength to bear on Griffin. Despite all of that, Griffin was able to dunk rather easily after taking off from outside the lane! That's just ridiculous. Personally, I'm not impressed enough with Blake's defense or his outside shot to think he sees a big role on the roster THIS year, even if he makes it. I actually still prefer Bosh for his shooting and length even though Blake has eclipsed Bosh in many ways. However, I'm with superdave in that it would be awesome to bring him along if only because something like this dunk will happen to someone from an opposing team and that can only add to the public interest in Olympic basketball, which is a good thing.

toooskies
01-31-2012, 09:46 AM
For saying that Blake Griffin is "athletic" isn't giving him much credit. There have been plenty of freak athletes who simply don't make it in the NBA. Most players in the league would kill for a season averaging 20/10. For him to do it as a rookie, the man has to have some basketball skill.

UrinalCake
01-31-2012, 12:59 PM
I still prefer Carter's dunk. Both were awesome, and I see your point that Griffin's was against a bigger dude who was playing better defense... but it wasn't a pure dunk, it was more like he threw it through the bucket from really close. Carter went over the guy and slammed it down right on top of him, which I think was more humiliating.


Lebron had a pretty big dunk a couple days ago that has garnered some attention, though I wouldn't put it in the same class as these other two. Lebron's was against a 5'11" guy who switched on him after a good back screen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvjjEtjwKHE

NSDukeFan
01-31-2012, 01:13 PM
In many ways, this was a better Dunk than the VC dunk, as awesome as the VC dunk was. Perkins is a big bodied defender who is known for blocking shots and blocking the rim at all costs. This was not a ticky-tack foul. Perkins hit Griffin pretty hard. This is also different than the defender on VC's dunk who was trying to draw a charge and had his hands down before moving his head to avoid any additional contact. Perkins was literally blocking Blake's path to the basket while jumping with hands outstretched, bringing his considerable strength to bear on Griffin. Despite all of that, Griffin was able to dunk rather easily after taking off from outside the lane! That's just ridiculous. Personally, I'm not impressed enough with Blake's defense or his outside shot to think he sees a big role on the roster THIS year, even if he makes it. I actually still prefer Bosh for his shooting and length even though Blake has eclipsed Bosh in many ways. However, I'm with superdave in that it would be awesome to bring him along if only because something like this dunk will happen to someone from an opposing team and that can only add to the public interest in Olympic basketball, which is a good thing.

I agree Griffin's dunk may be more impressive, but I agree with tooskies in that you may be shortchanging Griffin's basketball abilities because of his outstanding athleticism. This guy is a very good basketball for a second year guy and if he keeps improving, could be a major rotation guy for the Olympic team this year.

COYS
01-31-2012, 01:49 PM
I agree Griffin's dunk may be more impressive, but I agree with tooskies in that you may be shortchanging Griffin's basketball abilities because of his outstanding athleticism. This guy is a very good basketball for a second year guy and if he keeps improving, could be a major rotation guy for the Olympic team this year.

Hey, I don't discount his basketball ability. He's amazing! I know K likes him, too (Duke made overtures in recruiting with him but there wasn't much mutual interest). It's just the PF/C position on the Olympic team is STACKED with talent, especially if you count guys like Melo and Lebron as 3/4's in K's scheme. I know the lane will switch from the trapezoid to the NBA lane, which will make things a bit better for the big USA bigs, but in 2008 even though Howard started, a lot of the US Team's best sequences came when Bosh played the five with some combo Lebron, Melo, Kobe, Wade, Paul, and D Will filling the other spots. The Bosh was much better suited to follow 5's to the perimeter, which happens a lot in international ball, and the other positions were covered with sheer athleticism. All of those guys will be in the mix for a spot this year along with Durant, who could even play shooting guard in a ridiculously athletic and tall lineup with, say, Paul, Durant, Lebron, and Melo. Bosh fits into a lineup like that (or one that substitutes one of those four for Wade or Kobe) because he can stretch the defense with his midrange game and his mobility on the perimeter makes him useful on defense. We're splitting hairs, at this point, but unless Griffin can consistently knock down 12-15 ft. jumpers and improve his defense, especially when guarding opposing bigs on the perimeter (which you have to do a lot of in international ball), I still see Bosh as a better fit. If Griffin goes, I wouldn't be surprised to see him fill the role that Boozer filled last time around, where he gets some burn early, but as the games tighten up K goes with the experienced skill of Bosh/Howard rather than the potential of Griffin.

I guess at the end of the day we both agree. Griffin has a chance to make the team right now even if he doesn't improve. However, I have him below Bosh on the international pecking order until Griffin proves otherwise. If he keeps improving, there is no doubt that Griffin could be a much better fit than Bosh in the near future. I would bet that won't happen this year (even if Griffin makes the team), but may very well happen very soon afterwards.

Billy Dat
02-01-2012, 10:24 AM
Simmons weighs in:
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7525589/20-questions-part-2

20. What's been the most entertaining under-the-radar subplot of the 2011-12 season?

Even if it's another topic that needs to be blown out into its own column, let's quickly address the shadow of the 2012 Olympics and the three sub-questions it has spawned:

• Which 12 players are getting picked?
• Which five players are starting?
• Why are we pretending this doesn't matter to every NBA star when it clearly does?

We know LeBron, Wade, Kobe, Howard, Rose, Paul, Carmelo, Durant and Love are making the team; we know LeBron and Howard are definitely starting; and that's all we know. That means three roster spots and three starting spots are up for grabs, a juicy little subplot that hangs over the court like a thought bubble every time LaMarcus Aldridge and Blake Griffin battle this season, or Kobe and Wade, or Durant and Carmelo, or Paul and Rose, or Paul and Westbrook, or Aldridge and Griffin …

Here's the best example from this season (that I've witnessed, anyway): When Chicago played the Clippers right after Christmas, Rose and Paul traded punches like heavyweights for three quarters. At least five or six times after Paul made a play, Rose demanded the inbounds pass and tore down the court to answer him. You could tell Rose had something to prove — that he was the reigning MVP, that he owned a starting spot in London, that maybe a month of "Where's Chris Paul going?" hype shouldn't have mattered as much as it did. He torched the Clippers down the stretch, put away the game, then left room for one last ankle-breaking crossover in garbage time (finished with a gorgeous alley-oop pass for a Gibson dunk) before getting pulled and defiantly stomping back to Chicago's bench. If you were there, you knew this went deeper than basketball. Derrick Rose did everything short of standing on the scorer's table and holding up his point guard world championship belt.

Anyway, London's starting five looks like Rose, Kobe (the "token veteran" starter who also happens to be outplaying Wade right now), Durant (a heavy favorite after Carmelo's early swoon),9 LeBron (locked in) and Howard (locked in). Note to everyone who loves Spain in an upset pick: Rose-Kobe-Durant-LeBron-Howard double as our first-team All-NBA squad if the season ended today. It's the most loaded USA Hoops starting lineup of all time. Just remember that when you're talking yourself into betraying the country with a "Spain +600" gold medal pick.

As for Coach K's all-important second unit (remember, he plays 10 guys internationally), it's looking like Paul, Carmelo, Wade, Love and Tyson Chandler would be the favorites barring something crazy happening (like an injury, or Carmelo playing himself off this team). That leaves two more spots available for Griffin (the people's choice), LaMarcus Aldridge (a bigger body and a more logical choice than Griffin), Andre Iguodala (defense defense defense), Deron Williams (backcourt depth), Westbrook (ditto), Curry (long-range shooting), Chauncey Billups (veteran leadership) and Dr. Renaldo Balkman (chemist). If we're picking a basketball team and making sure we're covering every potential situation, then Aldridge and Iguodala should probably make it. If we're picking an All-Star team, then Westbrook and Griffin should go if only for their athleticism and garbage-time heroics (and the distinct possibility of Griffin trumping the Carter/Weis dunk). There's no easy answer, just like there's no easy answer with anything about this team.

In 1992, we knew the hierarchy: Michael leading the way, Charles and Scottie flanking him, Larry and Magic as the veterans, everyone else falling in line. In 2008, same thing: Kobe leading the way, LeBron and Wade flanking him, Kidd as the veteran, everyone else falling in line. There's a different feel to 2012, with everyone constantly battling for territory, turf and respect. Even watching that Clippers-Oklahoma City game on Monday, as Paul and Westbrook traded haymakers, I found myself thinking about London again. Is there more going on here? Are there telepathic messages being sent? Maybe it's a bad omen for our 2012 gold medal hopes, but that ongoing competitive edge — an Olympian one-upsmanship, if you will — is the cherry on the hot fudge sundae of an already compelling NBA season. Good times.

superdave
02-01-2012, 10:51 AM
Simmons weighs in:
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7525589/20-questions-part-2


We know LeBron, Wade, Kobe, Howard, Rose, Paul, Carmelo, Durant and Love are making the team; we know LeBron and Howard are definitely starting; and that's all we know. That means three roster spots and three starting spots are up for grabs, a juicy little subplot that hangs over the court like a thought bubble every time LaMarcus Aldridge and Blake Griffin battle this season, or Kobe and Wade, or Durant and Carmelo, or Paul and Rose, or Paul and Westbrook, or Aldridge and Griffin …

As for Coach K's all-important second unit (remember, he plays 10 guys internationally), it's looking like Paul, Carmelo, Wade, Love and Tyson Chandler would be the favorites barring something crazy happening (like an injury, or Carmelo playing himself off this team). That leaves two more spots available for Griffin (the people's choice), LaMarcus Aldridge (a bigger body and a more logical choice than Griffin), Andre Iguodala (defense defense defense), Deron Williams (backcourt depth), Westbrook (ditto), Curry (long-range shooting), Chauncey Billups (veteran leadership) and Dr. Renaldo Balkman (chemist). If we're picking a basketball team and making sure we're covering every potential situation, then Aldridge and Iguodala should probably make it. If we're picking an All-Star team, then Westbrook and Griffin should go if only for their athleticism and garbage-time heroics (and the distinct possibility of Griffin trumping the Carter/Weis dunk). There's no easy answer, just like there's no easy answer with anything about this team.


Simmons has LeBron, Kobe, Wade, Paul, Rose, Howard, Melo, Durant and Love as definites. That's 9 guys.

Taking what Simmons says and going a step further, there will be three roster spots open for the following battles:

Blake Griffin vs. Lemarcus Aldridge vs. Tyson Chandler (2 of 3 could be chosen)

Deron Williams vs. Russell Westbrook vs. Steph Curry vs. Andre Igoudala (2 of 4 could be chosen)

I personally think an injury or two among the first 9 will open up another spot for this group. Could be Paul's or Kobe's knees, could be something we dont know about.

The other wildcard is if someone shows up to camp not sufficiently buying into the Coach K/Colangelo system. Apparently LeBron had that issue in 2008 and was forced to send his entourage packing or be sent home himself. Could Dwight Howard be that guy this summer, with his NBA future unsettled?

If I am forced to choose from the 7 wild cards above, I'm picking Blake and Westbrook because we'll need them on the team in 2016 when Kobe, Wade, Paul are not up to playing in the offseason any more. That leaves one pick (and two if one of the first 9 drops out). With Durant and James, you dont need Igoudala. With Howard and Love, you could use Chandler to protect the rim over Aldridge who is more scorer than defender/rebounder. I like Steph Curry but think he's undersized to guard the 2 and cannot play D anyway. So I think Simmons is omitting two people we need to think about - first is Eric Gordon who is a bigger and stronger Steph Curry. Second is Greg Monroe who could be our Tyson Chandler of the future and could be a really good offensive cog in international play too. In his 2nd year in the league, Monroe is averaging 16 and 10.

SilkyJ
02-01-2012, 11:30 AM
Simmons has LeBron, Kobe, Wade, Paul, Rose, Howard, Melo, Durant and Love as definites. That's 9 guys.

Taking what Simmons says and going a step further, there will be three roster spots open for the following battles:

Blake Griffin vs. Lemarcus Aldridge vs. Tyson Chandler (2 of 3 could be chosen)

Deron Williams vs. Russell Westbrook vs. Steph Curry vs. Andre Igoudala (2 of 4 could be chosen)

As Billy Dat pointed out much earlier, Steph Curry is not on the roster. I'm not sure how Simmons threw him on there and left off Gordon. But anyway, Gordon is a candidate, but as of now Curry is not on the training camp roster...(unless there was a change recently that I missed?)



For those who keep adding names as potentially invited to the tryout (e.g. Steph Curry), I think this list represents the final tryout list. There will only be chances for additions based on injuries or other withdrawals.



I personally think an injury or two among the first 9 will open up another spot for this group. Could be Paul's or Kobe's knees, could be something we dont know about.

Agreed here. Throw in Wade to Paul and Kobe and you never know who's going to roll an ankle or bust up a knee late in the season...and with this condensed sked there is still a lot of unknowns here.



The other wildcard is if someone shows up to camp not sufficiently buying into the Coach K/Colangelo system. Apparently LeBron had that issue in 2008 and was forced to send his entourage packing or be sent home himself. Could Dwight Howard be that guy this summer, with his NBA future unsettled?

I never heard that about Lebron in 2008...link? I really, really, really doubt this happens. All but I think Aldridge and Griffin were on the 08 or 10 teams, so they know the deal.



If I am forced to choose from the 7 wild cards above, I'm picking Blake and Westbrook because we'll need them on the team in 2016 when Kobe, Wade, Paul are not up to playing in the offseason any more.

Are you saying if YOU were making the calls you would pick these guys or this is what you expect K & Co. to pick? B/c K isn't going to pick guys for the final roster thinking "oh we'll need them in 4 years." He's going to pick the best team for this tournament right now.

I agree with Simmons on the 9 locks as I stated earlier, and I contended that K picked 3 PGs 6 Wings and 3 Bigs in both 08 and 10 so I'd expect him to do the same. Not a guarantee, but its a logical formula and since he's done it before its a reasonable place to start.

In the 9 locks we have 2 PGs, 5wings and 2Bigs, so we need to add 1 to each spot theoretically. You added Westbrook and Griffin, I'd say its a toss up b/w Griffin and Chandler and I give the edge to Chandler...Griffin's offensive game does not suit the int'l game that well, and Chandler can fill the rebounder/defender role well.

For the PG spot I also think it could be a tossup b/w D-Williams and Westbrook, but I'll lean to Williams ever so slightly b/c he's a better shooter and Westbrook has had some chemistry issues in the past.



That leaves one pick (and two if one of the first 9 drops out). With Durant and James, you dont need Igoudala. With Howard and Love, you could use Chandler to protect the rim over Aldridge who is more scorer than defender/rebounder. I like Steph Curry but think he's undersized to guard the 2 and cannot play D anyway. So I think Simmons is omitting two people we need to think about - first is Eric Gordon who is a bigger and stronger Steph Curry. Second is Greg Monroe who could be our Tyson Chandler of the future and could be a really good offensive cog in international play too. In his 2nd year in the league, Monroe is averaging 16 and 10.

1st of all: Where in the world did you come up with Greg Monroe? Unless I missed some major announcement, he's not on the roster. 2nd of all, with Howard, Love, Griffin/Chandler we don't need a 4th big body. To complete the formula we need a wing, and I agree with you here: I think it goes to Gordon. He will also fill the designated zone breaker/shooter role.

Iguodala and Gay will be in the mix: Iggy for his defending and Gay for his shooting, but I think they are largely made redundant by Bron, Melo, and Durant, whereas we could use a designated shooter out there.

Ichabod Drain
02-01-2012, 11:40 AM
Are you saying if YOU were making the calls you would pick these guys or this is what you expect K & Co. to pick? B/c K isn't going to pick guys for the final roster thinking "oh we'll need them in 4 years." He's going to pick the best team for this tournament right now.



I could honestly see K and co. doing this. I'm not saying they will pick players solely based on youth or anything like that but with the last few guys on the roster it's really a coin flip for who is the best. Any combination could be picked and you could find a legitimate argument for why that combination is the best. Coach K has said numerous times he is interested in establishing a solid US basketball program that can continue to the next coach and group of players. I'm not saying that he will pick the younger players for that reason, but I wouldn't completely rule it out either.

mkirsh
02-01-2012, 11:44 AM
Simmons has LeBron, Kobe, Wade, Paul, Rose, Howard, Melo, Durant and Love as definites. That's 9 guys.

Taking what Simmons says and going a step further, there will be three roster spots open for the following battles:

Blake Griffin vs. Lemarcus Aldridge vs. Tyson Chandler (2 of 3 could be chosen)

With Howard and Love, you could use Chandler to protect the rim over Aldridge who is more scorer than defender/rebounder. I like Steph Curry but think he's undersized to guard the 2 and cannot play D anyway.

I think Simmons is leaving out Chris Bosh, who I would expect to have a very good shot to make the team, likely ahead of Griffin or Chandler, based on his versatility (can guard on the perimeter and switch all screens which Coach K likes to do in international play), and prior experience.

Billy Dat
02-01-2012, 11:45 AM
Silky - here's the Adrian Wojnarowski article that talks about Lebron almost getting booted off Team USA - this is the only time I have ever seen this written.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-heatfreeagency071610

superdave
02-01-2012, 12:22 PM
As Billy Dat pointed out much earlier, Steph Curry is not on the roster. I'm not sure how Simmons threw him on there and left off Gordon. But anyway, Gordon is a candidate, but as of now Curry is not on the training camp roster...(unless there was a change recently that I missed?)

Agreed here. Throw in Wade to Paul and Kobe and you never know who's going to roll an ankle or bust up a knee late in the season...and with this condensed sked there is still a lot of unknowns here.

I never heard that about Lebron in 2008...link? I really, really, really doubt this happens. All but I think Aldridge and Griffin were on the 08 or 10 teams, so they know the deal.

Are you saying if YOU were making the calls you would pick these guys or this is what you expect K & Co. to pick? B/c K isn't going to pick guys for the final roster thinking "oh we'll need them in 4 years." He's going to pick the best team for this tournament right now.

I agree with Simmons on the 9 locks as I stated earlier, and I contended that K picked 3 PGs 6 Wings and 3 Bigs in both 08 and 10 so I'd expect him to do the same. Not a guarantee, but its a logical formula and since he's done it before its a reasonable place to start.

In the 9 locks we have 2 PGs, 5wings and 2Bigs, so we need to add 1 to each spot theoretically. You added Westbrook and Griffin, I'd say its a toss up b/w Griffin and Chandler and I give the edge to Chandler...Griffin's offensive game does not suit the int'l game that well, and Chandler can fill the rebounder/defender role well.

For the PG spot I also think it could be a tossup b/w D-Williams and Westbrook, but I'll lean to Williams ever so slightly b/c he's a better shooter and Westbrook has had some chemistry issues in the past.

1st of all: Where in the world did you come up with Greg Monroe? Unless I missed some major announcement, he's not on the roster. 2nd of all, with Howard, Love, Griffin/Chandler we don't need a 4th big body. To complete the formula we need a wing, and I agree with you here: I think it goes to Gordon. He will also fill the designated zone breaker/shooter role.

Iguodala and Gay will be in the mix: Iggy for his defending and Gay for his shooting, but I think they are largely made redundant by Bron, Melo, and Durant, whereas we could use a designated shooter out there.

Yeah, I think Simmons was sloppy in his assessment. He leaves out Eric Gordon and Chris Bosh. I also agree with you that it's likely to be 3 pgs, 6 wings, 3 bigs.

But I think that we should not assume the roster that came out a month ago is final. Someone will drop off almost surely. And they will be replaced for the tryouts and we have a few spots up for grabs. Perhaps it's a good exericise to predict the 4-5 people most like not to show up for tryouts:

1. Wade has missed games this year and is somewhat fragile.
2. Paul and his knees might be a no go.
3. Kobe's knees, wrist and fingers often have trouble. But if he can jog, he's there. He lives for the big stage.
4. Dwight Howard. I dont know why but he's just acting peculiarly and his contract stuff could keep him home.
5. Tyson Chandler has missed 8, 31 and 37 games his last three seasons.
6. Billups is not very good anymore and could bow out under the assumption he would not make it.

If you were to add people to the larger roster to attend tryouts:
PGs: Rondo, Irving, Wall
Wings: You dont really need additional wings with Gay and Iggy attending tryouts.
Bigs: Greg Monroe, Joakim Noah, JaVale McGee, DeAndre Jordan

SilkyJ
02-01-2012, 01:18 PM
Silky - here's the Adrian Wojnarowski article that talks about Lebron almost getting booted off Team USA - this is the only time I have ever seen this written.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-heatfreeagency071610

What a GREAT article. Don't know how I ever missed that one. Thanks.


Yeah, I think Simmons was sloppy in his assessment. He leaves out Eric Gordon and Chris Bosh. I also agree with you that it's likely to be 3 pgs, 6 wings, 3 bigs.

But I think that we should not assume the roster that came out a month ago is final. Someone will drop off almost surely. And they will be replaced for the tryouts and we have a few spots up for grabs. Perhaps it's a good exericise to predict the 4-5 people most like not to show up for tryouts:

1. Wade has missed games this year and is somewhat fragile.
2. Paul and his knees might be a no go.
3. Kobe's knees, wrist and fingers often have trouble. But if he can jog, he's there. He lives for the big stage.
4. Dwight Howard. I dont know why but he's just acting peculiarly and his contract stuff could keep him home.
5. Tyson Chandler has missed 8, 31 and 37 games his last three seasons.
6. Billups is not very good anymore and could bow out under the assumption he would not make it.

If you were to add people to the larger roster to attend tryouts:
PGs: Rondo, Irving, Wall
Wings: You dont really need additional wings with Gay and Iggy attending tryouts.
Bigs: Greg Monroe, Joakim Noah, JaVale McGee, DeAndre Jordan

A touch exercise to go through, b/c its complete guesswork but everything you say makes sense, except WRT Billups. Chauncey will be at the tryouts if he's healthy. He's a competitor and a veteran and K will ask him to come if only to show these guys the ropes. He may also get the 3rd PG spot even if he's not the most skilled guy for the job b/c K does believe in the value of leadership and having a chemistry guy like that on the team.

WRT to your replacements: Rondo seemed to have issues last go round so don't know if he'd be an addition or not...I'm certainly not an insider at USA bball but felt like there were some issues there. Irving yes, Wall maybe...but I don't think he's ready. Still, he could get a tryout invite.

Agree on the Wings mostly, but Curry could get an invite, if he counts as a SG/wing. All those bigs make sense, and don't rule out Perkins or Bynum, both of whom might be even higher up.


I could honestly see K and co. doing this. I'm not saying they will pick players solely based on youth or anything like that but with the last few guys on the roster it's really a coin flip for who is the best. Any combination could be picked and you could find a legitimate argument for why that combination is the best. Coach K has said numerous times he is interested in establishing a solid US basketball program that can continue to the next coach and group of players. I'm not saying that he will pick the younger players for that reason, but I wouldn't completely rule it out either.

If you really think that, then you're demonstrating how little you know about Coach K, imo. You're right coach has said he wants to establish a solid program and imo he's already that.

Nonetheless, establishing a program means creating pride and a winning mentality for a program that makes young kids and NBA stars want to be associated with the USA bball brand. You need lots of players to make a team and lots of interest to get those players. So it doesn't mean catering to just one or two players. It does not mean giving a 12th roster spot to an up-and-comer just to appease him in the hopes that he'll play a bigger role 4 years later. Coach K doesn't play games. He picks a squad to WIN. All he cares about is winning and winning the right way. No catering to egos. I mean just read the article I quoted at the top of this: he almost cut Lebron james from the 08 team b/c he was too much of a hassle.

If a guy gets a spot its b/c K thinks he's earned it, deserves it, and it will help this team win.

Ichabod Drain
02-01-2012, 01:28 PM
If you really think that, then you're demonstrating how little you know about Coach K, imo. You're right coach has said he wants to establish a solid program and imo he's already that.

Nonetheless, establishing a program means creating pride and a winning mentality for a program that makes young kids and NBA stars want to be associated with the USA bball brand. It does NOT mean giving a 12th roster spot to an up-and-comer just to appease him in the hopes that he'll play a bigger role 4 years later. Coach K doesn't play games. He picks a squad to WIN. All he cares about is winning and winning the right way. No catering to the egos of these NBA players. Read the article I quoted at the top of this: he almost cut Lebron james from the08 team b/c he was too much of a hassle.

So yea, I think I can completely rule it out.

The point is he wouldn't be sacrificing anything to choose a younger player for the 12th spot. All of the players listed as trying out are considered the best in the world. The 12th man on this roster is not going to be the difference between silver and gold. It's like looking at two resumes that are almost identical, you have to find some way to differentiate them.

SilkyJ
02-01-2012, 01:38 PM
The point is he wouldn't be sacrificing anything to choose a younger player for the 12th spot. All of the players listed as trying out are considered the best in the world. The 12th man on this roster is not going to be the difference between silver and gold. It's like looking at two resumes that are almost identical, you have to find some way to differentiate them.

The point is that what you're suggesting runs counter to K's philosophy. K (and colangelo's) philosophy is to select the best team to win this tournament. Period. They're not thinking about appeasing some guy for something that might happen 4 years down the road.

Ichabod Drain
02-01-2012, 01:51 PM
Obviously if an older player is a better player and a better fit for the team he will be selected, I'm no arguing that. I'm talking about when it comes down to selecting between players that it's very difficult to say which one will perform better for the team. It doesn't hurt to take a look at it from an off the court perspective. I don't think that in any way contradicts coach K's win now philosophy.

superdave
02-01-2012, 02:11 PM
I'm not sure that adding an up and comer like Wall/Irving over a guy like Billups would be to appease the young guy. I'd think a younger guy might contribute more than Chauncy at this point. Same for a DeAndre Jordan, JaVale McGee or Greg Monroe over Tyson Chandler. But you would have the added benefit in 2014 and 2016 of having a experience among your younger guys.

We've also not discussed Lamar Odom who played really well in 2010.

rsvman
02-01-2012, 03:47 PM
Check out (http://deadspin.com/5880763/blake-griffin-just-dunked-on-the-entire-perkins-family-tree) the Blake Griffin dunk on Kendrick Perkins. I hope Blake makes the trip to London so he can bump the Vince Carter Olympic dunk from the top spot.

I could be wrong, but it sure seems to me that the last 8-12 inches of elevation on that dunk came because Griffin pushed down on Perkins's shoulders in order to elevate himself high enough for the dunk. Physics argues against a leap off the floor that displays a change in speed of the rise about halfway between the floor and the apex of the jump.

Dev11
02-01-2012, 04:01 PM
I don't think any guys get chosen because they might anchor the team in 2016. If that's the thought, then those guys will get chosen in 2014, when the preparation for 2016 begins. 2012 is a culmination of the work that began in the summer of 2010, and I'll be surprised if more than 1 or 2 roster spots are filled by guys who don't already have medals from 2008 or 2010.

One of K and Colangelo made the comment back in 2006 that the Senior Team should be a 3 year commitment, from the Worlds to the Olympics, in each cycle. K is going to step down from the head coach's role after this summer, and some other coach (Boeheim, maybe?) will take over and begin to evaluate talent for 2014. Speaking of which, I wouldn't be surprised if the guys who lead the 2014 team aren't on the Olympic team this time around, the way Durant led the 2010 team and wasn't on the 2008 team. Griffin would be a prime example for this role. Hopefully Kyrie gets a big shot, too.

SilkyJ
02-01-2012, 07:41 PM
We've also not discussed Lamar Odom who played really well in 2010.

Good point. I've been thinking the last big spot is b/w Chandler/Griffin with the edge to Chandler...but Odom started ahead of Chandler in '10 at Center so maybe we should be giving him more credit...for some reason my gut just says I'd rather have Chandler as an anchor in the middle, but its not my gut that's making the decision.

SilkyJ
02-07-2012, 08:54 PM
Billups could be out for a while (http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/7549163/los-angeles-clippers-lose-chauncey-billups-achilles-injury-victory) with an achilles. While I didn't originally having him making the team over D-will or Westbrook (assuming Rose and Paul are locks), the more I thought about it the more I could see him making it. He would be a key leader and locker room guy, something K would value strongly.

No timetable yet on his return and no word on how severely he hurt his achilles, but I don't think an achilles injury is a quick thing to recover from, no matter how severe.

Check that: Billups is out for the year. (http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/7552138/los-angeles-clippers-chauncey-billups-season-torn-achilles)

As superdave pointed out, injuries were bound to play in here. Have to continue to keep an eye and see who gets added to the list as well...and really we won't fully know the deal until June when the playoffs are over.

SilkyJ
02-10-2012, 10:12 PM
should we add Jeremy Lin to the mix?

NSDukeFan
02-11-2012, 10:59 AM
should we add Jeremy Lin to the mix?

or Austin Rivers?

superdave
02-14-2012, 11:26 AM
If Carmelo thinks he's been grandfathered into the Olympic team or something, he's kidding himself — Coach K will absolutely cut his arse unless he steps it up. That will be a fun subplot in July.

link
(http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7562176/the-sports-guy-nba-all-star-team#footnote3)

SilkyJ
02-14-2012, 11:33 AM
If Carmelo thinks he's been grandfathered into the Olympic team or something, he's kidding himself — Coach K will absolutely cut his arse unless he steps it up. That will be a fun subplot in July.

link
(http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7562176/the-sports-guy-nba-all-star-team#footnote3)

I think if he brings his a-game, and energy, to the tryouts then he'll have a spot. Even if he has a lackluster regular season...but we shall see!

MCFinARL
02-14-2012, 12:19 PM
Yeah, I think Simmons was sloppy in his assessment. He leaves out Eric Gordon and Chris Bosh. I also agree with you that it's likely to be 3 pgs, 6 wings, 3 bigs.

But I think that we should not assume the roster that came out a month ago is final. Someone will drop off almost surely. And they will be replaced for the tryouts and we have a few spots up for grabs. Perhaps it's a good exericise to predict the 4-5 people most like not to show up for tryouts:

1. Wade has missed games this year and is somewhat fragile.
2. Paul and his knees might be a no go.
3. Kobe's knees, wrist and fingers often have trouble. But if he can jog, he's there. He lives for the big stage.
4. Dwight Howard. I dont know why but he's just acting peculiarly and his contract stuff could keep him home.
5. Tyson Chandler has missed 8, 31 and 37 games his last three seasons.
6. Billups is not very good anymore and could bow out under the assumption he would not make it.

If you were to add people to the larger roster to attend tryouts:
PGs: Rondo, Irving, Wall
Wings: You dont really need additional wings with Gay and Iggy attending tryouts.
Bigs: Greg Monroe, Joakim Noah, JaVale McGee, DeAndre Jordan

Kind of shocking to see two players from the hapless Wizards on your list of possible add ons.

It's true McGee was a late addition to the tryouts last time when folks were injured--but that didn't turn out too well. Bottom line, he seems to be kind of a knucklehead--a lot of potential but not very coachable and not always a good decision maker on the court. Not sure they'd be eager to give him another shot.

Wall seems like someone who would be open to some good coaching and could really benefit from it (shoulda picked Duke! ;)). But I think I agree with the commenter who said he doesn't seem ready--not sure there is time to make up for what he hasn't learned with the Wiz.

gam7
02-14-2012, 12:52 PM
If Carmelo thinks he's been grandfathered into the Olympic team or something, he's kidding himself — Coach K will absolutely cut his arse unless he steps it up. That will be a fun subplot in July.

link
(http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7562176/the-sports-guy-nba-all-star-team#footnote3)

Not so much a matter of whether he is grandfathered, as much as it is a matter of the Boeheim connection. Coach K won't cut him without Boeheim's sign-off, and my guess is that Boeheim, like K, will treat the try-outs as a meritocracy.

One thing we do know: Kevin Love is going all out to make the team - it was transparent with his Scola face-stomp. He might as well have been saying, "C'mon Coach, I can play like your boy, Laettner. Let's do this!" http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2012/02/kevin_love_suspended_after_stepping_on_luis_scola_ face.php

I kid.

g-money
03-18-2012, 10:40 AM
The early loss in the NCAAs gives Coach K more time to prepare for the Olympics. Unfortunately though, it has not exactly been a banner year for any of the coaches:

Coach K - early loss in the NCAA tournament - as much as it sucks for Duke fans, it pales in comparison with the plights of the assistants.
Nate McMillan - let go in Portland
Mike D'Antoni - resigns in NY
Jim Boehiem - multiple scandals in Syracuse

Will any of these developments lead to a shakeup of the coaching staff? Also, can D'Antoni and Carmelo coexist on the same team?

Coach K and Jerry Colangelo will have their work cut out for them.

Johnny Chill
03-18-2012, 12:26 PM
I dont think Carmelo should be on the Olympic team. Durant will replace him as a starter. Also Durant and Carmelo's skills are similar on offense, what does Carmelo bring on the defensive side?

Roster:

PG: Rose, Paul, Williams
SG: Kobe, Wade, Westbrook
SF: James, Durant
PF: Bosh, Griffin or Love for the last spot.
Center: Howard, Chandler


Just missing the cut:

Melo, Iggy, Gay, Aldridge

superdave
04-09-2012, 10:11 PM
Odom is parting ways (http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/_/id/7791431/dallas-mavericks-lamar-odom-sever-ties-immediately) with the Mavs. It seems that playing for a non-coastal team hurts his feelings because it hurts his wife's reality tv career, sadly.

This most likely means Odom will not be a part of the larger Team USA roster and attend tryouts. However, it could mean he is rested and ready for tryouts. But I'm leaning towards him not being there.

This would create space for another invitee (Greg Monroe?), and it would provide an advantage to some guys for making the team (Chandler, Aldridge, Blake).

Ichabod Drain
04-10-2012, 07:35 AM
I dont think Carmelo should be on the Olympic team. Durant will replace him as a starter. Also Durant and Carmelo's skills are similar on offense, what does Carmelo bring on the defensive side?

Roster:

PG: Rose, Paul, Williams
SG: Kobe, Wade, Westbrook
SF: James, Durant
PF: Bosh, Griffin or Love for the last spot.
Center: Howard, Chandler


Just missing the cut:

Melo, Iggy, Gay, Aldridge

You have four point guards that's a little overkill considering you also have players like Wade and James who can handle the ball. Also I do think Durant is better than Carmello but it's not like Durant has an awesome defensive game either, he can be pretty soft on D.

pfrduke
04-11-2012, 04:35 PM
Not directly related to roster selection, but there's some agitation for pay for play (http://espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/story/_/id/7801502/nba-olympians-compensated) in the Olympics. As far as I'm concerned, if you don't want to play for your country unless you get paid to do so, you can spend your August relaxing on the beach somewhere.

dcdevil2009
04-11-2012, 04:51 PM
Not directly related to roster selection, but there's some agitation for pay for play (http://espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/story/_/id/7801502/nba-olympians-compensated) in the Olympics. As far as I'm concerned, if you don't want to play for your country unless you get paid to do so, you can spend your August relaxing on the beach somewhere.

I saw it more as Wade saying that if all the sponsors are using the USA basketball team to make money, then the players should be able to get a share of those profits. Just because you're willing to represent your country for free doesn't mean you should be expected to represent Nike, Gatorade, et al. for free as well.

Johnny Chill
04-11-2012, 05:11 PM
Not directly related to roster selection, but there's some agitation for pay for play (http://espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/story/_/id/7801502/nba-olympians-compensated) in the Olympics. As far as I'm concerned, if you don't want to play for your country unless you get paid to do so, you can spend your August relaxing on the beach somewhere.

The scheduling is tough for players that are on teams that make deep playoff runs, year after year.

But there are a lot of players that want to be on the National team. The international exposure alone will help a player make money. Being in international competition and playing against the NBA elite in practice will help make a player better. See all the players that played in Turkey in 2010, Durant, Rose, Westbrook, Love, Gay, Gordon, Chandler, etc. a majority of them had careers season, their teams got better because of their play. Rose won MVP. Chandler won the NBA Championship and got a new fat contract. Odom won 6th man of the year.

The players benefit from being on the team in more ways that just direct pay.

uh_no
04-11-2012, 06:25 PM
I saw it more as Wade saying that if all the sponsors are using the USA basketball team to make money, then the players should be able to get a share of those profits. Just because you're willing to represent your country for free doesn't mean you should be expected to represent Nike, Gatorade, et al. for free as well.

I think that's key....they should be getting a cut of jerseys and other promotional material.

gam7
04-12-2012, 05:42 PM
LaMarcus Aldridge is done for the season because of torn cartilage in his hip. Seems unlikely that he would be ready to compete at full strength in a couple of months. This would seem to strengthen Love's and Griffin's chances to make the Olympic roster.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/story/2012-04-12/LaMarcus-Aldridge-Corey-Maggette-done-for-season/54222842/1

jipops
04-12-2012, 05:49 PM
I would think that Kevin Love is a much more ideal fit than Griffin. In addition to being a monster on the boards he's a major threat from the perimeter which would make the US team that much more difficult to defend. Though he lacks Griffin's explosiveness (few don't), I don't think he would be anymore of a liability on defense.

J4Kop99
04-12-2012, 06:13 PM
Here's my ideal U.S. Olympic roster

Chris Paul- Perfect combo of scoring ability and passing... does not need to score unlike Rose. Knows how to get people going and can play great defense.

Kobe- He led the team when they needed him during the '08 campaign. Also, I think he fits better into the style of European play than Wade does. Oh, and he's Kobe Bryant.

LeBron James- He will play one of the forward position alongside Durant. I think they can co-exist well considering LeBron does not need to score to be effective. Especially with the talent that will be surrounding him.

Kevin Durant- No other teams have the overall size the US team COULD have but I don't think the US team needs its size advantage that badly. I think Durant and LeBron can easily cover the 3/4 positions out on the court. Durant has a solid back to the basket game and can also stretch the floor. LeBron can run the offense, slash, get down in the post, and rebound. They would mesh very well together IMO. Also, Durant can be that 3 pt threat if necessary.

Kevin Love- He is the PERFECT big man to play the European Style. No need for Dwight down low. (Obviously Dwight will be on the team and will most likely start, but if it was up to me, I wouldn't take him) Love is a dominant rebounder. He has turned into a dynamic offensive player as well who can go outside just as easily as he can go inside. As I said, the overall size from the competition isn't anything to worry about, so even though Love isn't a true, 7-foot center, he can easily handle his own down low. Also, Chandler off the bench can be that defensive stopper when necessary.

For my bench:

Deron Williams, Westbrook

Wade

Carmelo, Rudy Gay as the 12 man

Bosh (*Alridge as my 12th if he is healthy but most likely not)

Chandler (Maybe Bynum but he has been acting like a complete jacka-- recently and isn't even on the list to begin with)

UrinalCake
04-12-2012, 08:46 PM
So now Wade has backed off from his comments about getting paid, claiming that HE doesn't need to be paid, but his earlier statement was in response to a question about Olympians being paid and he meant it more in general terms. Talk about backpedaling. No doubt his agent/publicist had something to do with this retraction after all the negative publicity he must have garnered.

I wouldn't really have a problem with the players getting a portion of the jersey sales. I think logistically it would be difficult to implement, but in theory I'd be fine with it. I am also curious if the players get a portion of sales of their regular NBA jerseys. And when it comes to paying the guys just for playing, not only does this completely go against the spirit of the Olympics, but you'd have to wonder where they expect this money to come from?

superdave
04-13-2012, 08:31 AM
Here's my ideal U.S. Olympic roster

Chris Paul- Perfect combo of scoring ability and passing... does not need to score unlike Rose. Knows how to get people going and can play great defense.

Kobe- He led the team when they needed him during the '08 campaign. Also, I think he fits better into the style of European play than Wade does. Oh, and he's Kobe Bryant.

LeBron James- He will play one of the forward position alongside Durant. I think they can co-exist well considering LeBron does not need to score to be effective. Especially with the talent that will be surrounding him.

Kevin Durant- No other teams have the overall size the US team COULD have but I don't think the US team needs its size advantage that badly. I think Durant and LeBron can easily cover the 3/4 positions out on the court. Durant has a solid back to the basket game and can also stretch the floor. LeBron can run the offense, slash, get down in the post, and rebound. They would mesh very well together IMO. Also, Durant can be that 3 pt threat if necessary.

Kevin Love- He is the PERFECT big man to play the European Style. No need for Dwight down low. (Obviously Dwight will be on the team and will most likely start, but if it was up to me, I wouldn't take him) Love is a dominant rebounder. He has turned into a dynamic offensive player as well who can go outside just as easily as he can go inside. As I said, the overall size from the competition isn't anything to worry about, so even though Love isn't a true, 7-foot center, he can easily handle his own down low. Also, Chandler off the bench can be that defensive stopper when necessary.

For my bench:

Deron Williams, Westbrook

Wade

Carmelo, Rudy Gay as the 12 man

Bosh (*Alridge as my 12th if he is healthy but most likely not)

Chandler (Maybe Bynum but he has been acting like a complete jacka-- recently and isn't even on the list to begin with)

Duuuude. You cannot leave Dwight Howard off the roster. The guy will start and rule the paint on the defensive end. Yeah, he's immature. But he's the best big man on the planet.

Chicago 1995
04-13-2012, 08:41 AM
Rose should be on there ahead of Westbrook.

Love growth and shooting ability makes him (1) a lock and (2) the US team a lot tougher come London.

Kobe will be there, but he's so beat up, I wonder how much we can count on him.

And I agree with the poster above that even for all his faults, Howard's probably on the team because of his defensive ability. I'd rather see Chandler and Howard and bump Gay or Bosh.


Here's my ideal U.S. Olympic roster

Chris Paul- Perfect combo of scoring ability and passing... does not need to score unlike Rose. Knows how to get people going and can play great defense.

Kobe- He led the team when they needed him during the '08 campaign. Also, I think he fits better into the style of European play than Wade does. Oh, and he's Kobe Bryant.

LeBron James- He will play one of the forward position alongside Durant. I think they can co-exist well considering LeBron does not need to score to be effective. Especially with the talent that will be surrounding him.

Kevin Durant- No other teams have the overall size the US team COULD have but I don't think the US team needs its size advantage that badly. I think Durant and LeBron can easily cover the 3/4 positions out on the court. Durant has a solid back to the basket game and can also stretch the floor. LeBron can run the offense, slash, get down in the post, and rebound. They would mesh very well together IMO. Also, Durant can be that 3 pt threat if necessary.

Kevin Love- He is the PERFECT big man to play the European Style. No need for Dwight down low. (Obviously Dwight will be on the team and will most likely start, but if it was up to me, I wouldn't take him) Love is a dominant rebounder. He has turned into a dynamic offensive player as well who can go outside just as easily as he can go inside. As I said, the overall size from the competition isn't anything to worry about, so even though Love isn't a true, 7-foot center, he can easily handle his own down low. Also, Chandler off the bench can be that defensive stopper when necessary.

For my bench:

Deron Williams, Westbrook

Wade

Carmelo, Rudy Gay as the 12 man

Bosh (*Alridge as my 12th if he is healthy but most likely not)

Chandler (Maybe Bynum but he has been acting like a complete jacka-- recently and isn't even on the list to begin with)

flyingdutchdevil
04-13-2012, 10:12 AM
Rose should be on there ahead of Westbrook.

Love growth and shooting ability makes him (1) a lock and (2) the US team a lot tougher come London.

Kobe will be there, but he's so beat up, I wonder how much we can count on him.

And I agree with the poster above that even for all his faults, Howard's probably on the team because of his defensive ability. I'd rather see Chandler and Howard and bump Gay or Bosh.

Bosh and Melo are unique players - they strive better in FIBA than they do in the NBA. Melo loves international ball and, IMO, will start at the 4. He is big, can rebound, and hit a mid-range jump shot better than anyone on the team (including Kobe).

Howard needs to be on this team because of his ability to rebound, defend, and hit put-backs. He'll start too. My team of 12 with a brief description of why:

Starting 5:
-Chris Paul: distribution, jump shot, great teammate
-Kobe Bryant: still has it, greatest competitor on this team
-LeBron James: It's LeBron
-Carmelo Anthony: strives in the international game, is actually a 4 in FIBA call, can rebound
-Dwight Howard: best defensive player, amazing rebounder

Bench (in order that they come off the bench):
-Kevin Durant: instant offense off the bench
-Dwayne Wade: another great teammate and scorer
-Kevin Love: 2nd best rebounder on the team, can play both the 4 or 5, can hit a jump shot
-Derrick Rose: penetrate at will, decent distributor
-Chris Bosh: Hustle player who is incredibly smart and can hit the mid-range
-Deron Williams: can play the 1 perfectly and can also move to the 2. Since 3pt range
-Tyson Chandler: another big with great D

Notable omissions:
-Blake Griffin: his athleticism is off the charts, but he can't defend well and can't hit a mid-range jump shot
-Rudy Gay: too many better players who can already play the 3 (LBJ, Melo, Durant)
-Westbrook: can he do anything that a combination of Rose, Paul, and Williams can't?
-Curry: This isn't a great 3pt shooting team, but it doesn't need to be with the ability of players to hit the mid-range and the absurd defensive ability of this team

dcdevil2009
04-13-2012, 11:58 AM
Bosh and Melo are unique players - they strive better in FIBA than they do in the NBA. Melo loves international ball and, IMO, will start at the 4. He is big, can rebound, and hit a mid-range jump shot better than anyone on the team (including Kobe).

Howard needs to be on this team because of his ability to rebound, defend, and hit put-backs. He'll start too. My team of 12 with a brief description of why:

Starting 5:
-Chris Paul: distribution, jump shot, great teammate
-Kobe Bryant: still has it, greatest competitor on this team
-LeBron James: It's LeBron
-Carmelo Anthony: strives in the international game, is actually a 4 in FIBA call, can rebound
-Dwight Howard: best defensive player, amazing rebounder

Bench (in order that they come off the bench):
-Kevin Durant: instant offense off the bench
-Dwayne Wade: another great teammate and scorer
-Kevin Love: 2nd best rebounder on the team, can play both the 4 or 5, can hit a jump shot
-Derrick Rose: penetrate at will, decent distributor
-Chris Bosh: Hustle player who is incredibly smart and can hit the mid-range
-Deron Williams: can play the 1 perfectly and can also move to the 2. Since 3pt range
-Tyson Chandler: another big with great D

Notable omissions:
-Blake Griffin: his athleticism is off the charts, but he can't defend well and can't hit a mid-range jump shot
-Rudy Gay: too many better players who can already play the 3 (LBJ, Melo, Durant)
-Westbrook: can he do anything that a combination of Rose, Paul, and Williams can't?
-Curry: This isn't a great 3pt shooting team, but it doesn't need to be with the ability of players to hit the mid-range and the absurd defensive ability of this team

I think this lineup is pretty close to what the team is going to end up being. I might argue for Russell Westbrook over Deron Williams, but it would be close and I'd probably make the same justification for Williams being left off that you made for Westbrook (doesn't really do anything that a combination of Rose, Paul and Westbrook can't). Williams is a slightly better shooter, but in my opinion Westbrook is a better defender. I'm pretty sure FIBA is still using a slightly shooter than NBA three-point line, so that mitigates Williams advantage a little bit. Having played in 2008 might justify giving the nod to Williams, but Westbrook played in 2010 and Williams' free agency might impact the choice as well. Also, if Durant and Westbrook are both going to be coming off the bench, I can see their familiarity playing with each other could make Westbrook a more appealing choice. But choosing between those two is definitely one of those good problems to have when putting together a team.

I'm sure this will seem blasphemous, but this team might be as good as the original Dream Team. That's not to say that the players on the Dream Team weren't better at their peaks than this year's team, but a lot of them were at the tail ends of their careers, while Kobe and maybe Paul are the only players this year that aren't at or entering their peaks. I think this year's team is definitely deeper, but the Dream Team had the best player of all time and a big edge offensively in the front court.

Billy Dat
04-13-2012, 12:53 PM
RE: Roster
I think the forge of the NBA playoffs will determine a lot of the borderline roster spots so I am going to hold off with my predictions for a while. But, CNNSI.com has a few new Olympic BBall articles up and, unless he was quoted out of context, there is a new piece of info I'd never seen before:
http://www.cnnsi.com/2012/writers/ian_thomsen/04/12/usa.basketball/index.html

"It will be a blend -- it might be 50-50 or 60-40 regarding this roster," Colangelo said. "Our staff is going to meet May 1 for a couple of days to go over all of the details in terms of our schedule and our plans. The unusual circumstance is that we are going to have to select our team before we go to camp, and that's because of the dates that are required by the Olympic committee. We may go ahead and select our 12-man roster around June 1, that's what I'm thinking. And we will have some alternates.

"We will also have to select players we want to invite for our 'select' team," said Colangelo of the USA team that will challenge the Olympic team in practices and scrimmages. "Those players will then represent us in the Worlds in 2014 in Spain. That's how this thing works."

In the past, he has never said that the Select Team would automatically be the World Championship Squad. I wonder if that's what he truly meant? That would assume that no one from the 2012 Olympic Team would be on the 2014 Worlds Team - I find that hard to believe. Obviously, that's what happened in 2008/2010, and the team won gold, so maybe that's the new model. If you do well in the Worlds, you have a shot at making the Olympics next time around. Pretty interesting.

As for Wade and his comments about being paid, I don't think it's that big a deal. It's part of the age old amateurism debate - who makes money off of the unpaid? In that same CNNSI article, Colangelo says that the money they make off of the Senior Men's team basically allows USA Basketball to break even. We know that the NBA kicks in heavy funding support for the team, too.

Johnny Chill
04-13-2012, 09:59 PM
Westbrook and Griffin will be on the team.

sagegrouse
04-19-2012, 08:41 PM
Howard will undergo surgery (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7834605/agent-says-orlando-magic-dwight-howard-back-surgery) to repair a herniated disk and be lost for the rest of the season plus the summer Olympics.

sagegrouse

superdave
04-20-2012, 08:45 AM
This strengthens the position of Tyson Chandler, who may be NBA DPOY this season. I think Howard's absence and Lamarcus Aldridge's hip surgery also means we need to add another big to the roster.

Here's the guys from the 20-man roster who will not be around this summer in all likelihood-

Dwight Howard
Lamarcus Aldrudge
Chauncy Billups
Lamar Odom


Here's the # of missed games this season for some other guys on the roster -

Dwyane Wade 13
Derrick Rose 26
Kobe 7
Eric Gordon 55

The big men will probably be Chandler, Bosh, Love and Griffin with Carmelo and Durant playing the 4 as necessary. They will probably need to add another big man or two for tryout and practice purposes though, so they do not get caught flat-footed in the event of another injury. Ideally the big man would be able to protect the rim and be versatile enough to guard away from the basket too, since international bigs tend to be skilled.

Greg Monroe (averaging 15.6 and 9.5) is the best example of a versatile big. Joakim Noah seems to replicate a lot of what Chandler does already. Andrew Bynum is turning into a stud at 18.9 and 12.1, but he's immature to the 3rd degree. JaVale McGee had a good tryout two summers ago, but he's the definition of knucklehead. Roy Hibbert might be too soft.

My guess is one or two additional bigs come to tryouts, but do not make the team. If Coach K and Colangelo are truly worried about the big man situation with Howard and Aldridge gone, bringing in a veteran like Garnett or Duncan could also be a solid move.

sagegrouse
04-20-2012, 09:21 AM
Joakim Noah seems to replicate a lot of what Chandler does already. .


C'est vrai, malheureusement, que Joakim Noah, le fils de Yannick Noah, soit francais.

sage

flyingdutchdevil
04-20-2012, 10:35 AM
Howard may seem like an awful human being, but he is a phenomenal center and defender (at least the best that the US has). This seems that Chandler will definitely be on the team. I'd like to see Bynum as well, who is extremely talented and only half a notch below Howard. I really don't like the idea of Griffin on the team as he doesn't bring much to the table except for the opportunity for another Vinsanity "tea bag" incident.

Dev11
04-20-2012, 10:42 AM
C'est vrai, malheureusement, que Joakim Noah, le fils de Yannick Noah, soit francais.

sage

According to Wikipedia, he was born in New York City, so no problem. (I will not stoop to your use of a language that wins no wars when we are discussing the Olympics)

Dukehky
04-20-2012, 10:42 AM
K is not going to keep Lamar Odom after what he just pulled this season. I also think that Bynum should probably get a shot here along with Chandler. No body has a front line that can bang with Bynum if you have a 7 minute stretch in every game when he gets the ball. Other than that I want this squad run and gun, but a short stretch of the game where you let the big boy bang can only be a good thing.

phaedrus
04-20-2012, 10:46 AM
C'est vrai, malheureusement, que Joakim Noah, le fils de Yannick Noah, soit francais.

sage

Mais il n'est pas un citoyen Americain aussi? A-t-il deja joue pour la france?

BlueDevilBaby
04-20-2012, 10:50 AM
C'est vrai, malheureusement, que Joakim Noah, le fils de Yannick Noah, soit francais.

sage

Bien dit, sagegrouse!

sagegrouse
04-20-2012, 10:56 AM
According to Wikipedia, he was born in New York City, so no problem. (I will not stoop to your use of a language that wins no wars when we are discussing the Olympics)


Mais il n'est pas un citoyen Americain aussi? A-t-il deja joue pour la france?

Ici sont les jouers pour l'equipe national de France (2011):



# Name Ht. Club
4 Noah, Joakim 2.11 m (6 ft 11 in) Chicago Bulls
5 Batum, Nicolas 2.03 m (6 ft 8 in) Portland Trail Blazers
6 Seraphin, Kevin 2.06 m (6 ft 9 in) Washington Wizards
7 Albicy, Andrew 1.78 m (5 ft 10 in) Paris-Levallois Basket
8 Lombahe-Kahudi, Charles 1.99 m (6 ft 6 in) Le Mans Sarthe Basket
9 Parker, Tony 1.88 m (6 ft 2 in) San Antonio Spurs
10 Traore, Ali 2.05 m (6 ft 9 in) BC Lokomotiv–Kuban Krasnodar
11 Piétrus, Florent 2.02 m (6 ft 8 in) Valencia BC
12 De Colo, Nando 1.96 m (6 ft 5 in) Valencia BC
13 Diaw, Boris (C) 2.03 m (6 ft 8 in) San Antonio Spurs
14 Tchicamboud, Steed 1.93 m (6 ft 4 in) ÉS Chalon-sur-Saône
15 Gelabale, Mickaël 2.00 m (6 ft 7 in) ASVEL Basket


Don't think we will see Messrs. Noah, Batum, Seraphin, Parker or Diaw in the stars and stripes.

sagegrouse

superdave
04-20-2012, 10:59 AM
K is not going to keep Lamar Odom after what he just pulled this season. I also think that Bynum should probably get a shot here along with Chandler. No body has a front line that can bang with Bynum if you have a 7 minute stretch in every game when he gets the ball. Other than that I want this squad run and gun, but a short stretch of the game where you let the big boy bang can only be a good thing.

Yeah, but Bynum is more of a headcase than Odom.
Remember how he exited the playoffs last season?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLxGm3El1cI
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLxGm3El1cI)
Remember him sulking this season and undermining his coach? We cannot have someone with little character representing the United States.

burnspbesq
04-20-2012, 11:38 AM
C'est vrai, malheureusement, que Joakim Noah, le fils de Yannick Noah, soit francais.

sage

Quel dommage.

FerryFor50
04-20-2012, 11:40 AM
Quel dommage.

quel fromage!

burnspbesq
04-20-2012, 11:41 AM
Allez a l'enfer, Carolina!

Indoor66
04-20-2012, 05:24 PM
According to Wikipedia, he was born in New York City, so no problem. (I will not stoop to your use of a language that wins no wars when we are discussing the Olympics)

It's OK. All you have to do is speak in reverse.

MCFinARL
04-20-2012, 06:40 PM
C'est vrai, malheureusement, que Joakim Noah, le fils de Yannick Noah, soit francais.

sage

Wow, is that subjunctive? Zut alors!

Dev11
04-21-2012, 02:58 PM
http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/7838991/los-angeles-lakers-andrew-bynum-probably-play-us-olympic-basketball-team

Bynum's not interested in the stars and stripes with his knee problems. The US front court is looking less formidable this week.

Greg_Newton
04-21-2012, 03:13 PM
http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/7838991/los-angeles-lakers-andrew-bynum-probably-play-us-olympic-basketball-team

Bynum's not interested in the stars and stripes with his knee problems. The US front court is looking less formidable this week.

K's going to miss out on all the top big men and have convince a 2004 veteran like Tim Duncan to play again. :p

PumpkinFunk
04-21-2012, 04:26 PM
K's going to miss out on all the top big men and have convince a 2004 veteran like Tim Duncan to play again. :p

I feel like Duncan or Garnett (both good choices) are gonna say no because of age, which leaves us with: Roy Hibbert, Greg Monroe, and... Anthony Davis as the best American big men? Is there really any other somewhat-competent center in the League? (If JaVale McGee somehow makes the team, I will actually start crying) I dunno, but I like the chances of Anthony Davis at least getting a call from Coach K and Team USA. I'm sure he's watching a ton of NBA tape now to figure out who to pick to take the big man/center role that Dwight's surgery has opened up. With a potential game against Spain, we need a solid big man, and we just don't quite have one.

Greg_Newton
04-21-2012, 06:25 PM
I feel like Duncan or Garnett (both good choices) are gonna say no because of age, which leaves us with: Roy Hibbert, Greg Monroe, and... Anthony Davis as the best American big men? Is there really any other somewhat-competent center in the League? (If JaVale McGee somehow makes the team, I will actually start crying) I dunno, but I like the chances of Anthony Davis at least getting a call from Coach K and Team USA. I'm sure he's watching a ton of NBA tape now to figure out who to pick to take the big man/center role that Dwight's surgery has opened up. With a potential game against Spain, we need a solid big man, and we just don't quite have one.

I was joking, but yeah, Aldridge's surgery doesn't help either.

I'd guess we're looking at Love, Chandler and Bosh as locks, with Griffin as a possibility. Don't really need to worry about the second big spot with Durant and LBJ on the roster...

DukeFanSince1990
04-21-2012, 06:33 PM
quel fromage!

I think there is a setting messed up on my browser......

Newton_14
04-21-2012, 06:38 PM
I was joking, but yeah, Aldridge's surgery doesn't help either.

I'd guess we're looking at Love, Chandler and Bosh as locks, with Griffin as a possibility. Don't really need to worry about the second big spot with Durant and LBJ on the roster...

I think Chandler and Love are the only 2 we need to be honest. K is going to play 4 perimeter players with 1 big anyway. I think Chandler and Love can hold down the 5 spot with no problem.

Greg_Newton
04-21-2012, 06:59 PM
I don't know, Bosh is pretty good in international games, and we had 3 true bigs on the 2008 team. Only two in 2010, but we also had Odom who played the 5 at times. My best guess at this point:

Paul
Bryant
James
Durant
Chandler

Bench guards: Westbrook, Williams
Wings/Forwards: Anthony, Wade, Gay
Bigs: Love, Bosh

With maybe Griffin or a shooter like Curry having a chance to beat out Gay or Bosh.

I don't think Howard's injury is a huge deal, honestly. Chandler has been very good in international play, and has completely bought into the "Zoubek role" in the past.

Dukehky
04-21-2012, 07:17 PM
I think Bosh is a lock for this spot. I don't see Blake beating out Bosh or Love because he can't shoot a lick and he's not a great defender, he can just rebound pretty well because of what a freak he is athletically. I'd like to see Noah get a look here and wouldn't be surprised if he ended up making the team. I hated him at Florida just as much as the next guy, and maybe since I like the bulls I'm biased here, but he's the type of no-nonsense, little things player that I really like.

I don't see Gay on this team really, but the more I think about it the more I don't see anybody else to take his spot. I think Rose would get the nod over Westbrook IF he were going to play, but I doubt that he would even attempt it after the injury bug bit him hard this season. I also think that after the season Rondo has had, he'd get another real hard look, but after the last attempt at this, I'm just not sure.


Where's the patented Dukie on this team? Gotta have one. Dunleavy, Redick? What's the point of having your coach in charge if he's not going to be incredibly biased!!!!

sagegrouse
04-21-2012, 08:07 PM
I think Bosh is a lock for this spot. I don't see Blake beating out Bosh or Love because he can't shoot a lick and he's not a great defender, he can just rebound pretty well because of what a freak he is athletically. I'd like to see Noah get a look here and wouldn't be surprised if he ended up making the team. I hated him at Florida just as much as the next guy, and maybe since I like the bulls I'm biased here, but he's the type of no-nonsense, little things player that I really like.
!!!

The thread has dealt with Noah extensively -- he's on the French national team!

sage

Dukehky
04-21-2012, 08:09 PM
The thread has dealt with Noah extensively -- he's on the French national team!

sage

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Sorry, got lazy and didn't read the whole thing. Ok then I think that the bigs should be Love Chandler and Bosh. Bang, done.

Still think we should bring in Dunleavy or Redick though.

Norman Pfyster
04-22-2012, 09:16 AM
Don't forget that LeBron James routinely guards the 4 position in the NBA and is frequently being mentioned as a potential defensive player of the year. Saying that the team will be four perimeter guys and one middle guy does not do this team justice (although I do think that Howard's injury makes Tyson Chandler pretty much a lock for the team).

Jderf
04-23-2012, 09:11 AM
K's going to miss out on all the top big men and have convince a 2004 veteran like Tim Duncan to play again. :p

I've begun thinking that there is actually nothing wrong with any of the prospective centers for the Olympic team. Between all these players "recovering from injuries" or choosing to play for other countries, I'm starting to realize the true underlying problem: Coach K just can't recruit big men. :rolleyes:

CDu
04-23-2012, 09:40 AM
Don't forget that LeBron James routinely guards the 4 position in the NBA and is frequently being mentioned as a potential defensive player of the year. Saying that the team will be four perimeter guys and one middle guy does not do this team justice (although I do think that Howard's injury makes Tyson Chandler pretty much a lock for the team).

Actually, James rarely guards the PF spot in the NBA. That responsibility falls to Haslem and Bosh, and occasionally Battier (with Anthony, Pittman, and whomever else the Heat want to run out there playing C). James guards anyone from PG to SF on a regular basis. Only in rare occasions does he guard the PF spot.

That said, he's perfectly capable of doing it, especially in the international game.

I'd expect Chandler, Love, and perhaps Bosh to make the team and play C.

SilkyJ
04-23-2012, 12:55 PM
Don't really need to worry about the second big spot with Durant and LBJ on the roster...


Actually, James rarely guards the PF spot in the NBA. That responsibility falls to Haslem and Bosh, and occasionally Battier (with Anthony, Pittman, and whomever else the Heat want to run out there playing C). James guards anyone from PG to SF on a regular basis. Only in rare occasions does he guard the PF spot.

That said, he's perfectly capable of doing it, especially in the international game.

I'd expect Chandler, Love, and perhaps Bosh to make the team and play C.

Chandler, Love and Bosh seem to the be the natural guys here as all 3 played Center on their respective previous USA teams. Love and Bosh's size and style of play is more ideal for the 4 spot, but on this team there isn't room for them to play the 4 so they'll be centers.

I'd feel ok with any/all of them on the team as backup center options, or occasional PF options, but the lack of a top tier true center on the team may hurt us in the later rounds when we play teams like Spain and Brazil that have 1st class frontlines.

Chandler is a true center, but played the second fewest minutes on the 2010 team competing with Lamar Odom and Love for minutes at Center. That's not terribly encouraging. His play the last 2 NBA seasons though make me optimistic that he can perform well, though.

It also wouldn't shock me to see LBJ guard the 4 or even 5 spots occasionally/situationally, i.e. late game with 5 foul shooters out there or maybe due to foul trouble, etc. Don't think we'll see much of it, but I don't think I'd have a problem with it being used occasionally.

Johnny Chill
04-23-2012, 03:01 PM
Don't forget that LeBron James routinely guards the 4 position in the NBA and is frequently being mentioned as a potential defensive player of the year. Saying that the team will be four perimeter guys and one middle guy does not do this team justice (although I do think that Howard's injury makes Tyson Chandler pretty much a lock for the team).


Actually, James rarely guards the PF spot in the NBA. That responsibility falls to Haslem and Bosh, and occasionally Battier (with Anthony, Pittman, and whomever else the Heat want to run out there playing C). James guards anyone from PG to SF on a regular basis. Only in rare occasions does he guard the PF spot.

That said, he's perfectly capable of doing it, especially in the international game.

I'd expect Chandler, Love, and perhaps Bosh to make the team and play C.

I seen Lebron play the 4 and guard the 4 plenty this season.

superdave
04-24-2012, 11:37 AM
Simmons wrote (http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7836691/welcome-back-mailbag) about the Olympic team in his mailbag last Friday.

He's got the following as locks - LeBron, Wade, Durant, Kobe, Rose, Paul, Love, Carmelo and Tyson Chandler. He adds Westbrook as a near lock. That makes 10. Then he debates the merits of the final two spots for big men, centered around the argument that we have to be able to stop the Gasols and Ibaka in the gold medal game vs. Spain.

Blake, Bynum, Bosh, Lamarcus, Garnett and Duncan are the candidates, plus Anthony Davis.

Worth the read.

Dukehky
04-24-2012, 12:17 PM
Simmons wrote (http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7836691/welcome-back-mailbag) about the Olympic team in his mailbag last Friday.

He's got the following as locks - LeBron, Wade, Durant, Kobe, Rose, Paul, Love, Carmelo and Tyson Chandler. He adds Westbrook as a near lock. That makes 10. Then he debates the merits of the final two spots for big men, centered around the argument that we have to be able to stop the Gasols and Ibaka in the gold medal game vs. Spain.

Blake, Bynum, Bosh, Lamarcus, Garnett and Duncan are the candidates, plus Anthony Davis.

Worth the read.

It'd be cool to see Davis out there, I like the kid, but if he's worried about the Gasols and Ibaka, how on God's green earth is Anthony Davis going to defend any of them in the post? You can't play weak side defense in a man to man to help yourself... But he'd be about as useful as Laettner was on the Dream Team, neat to see a college aged kid out there though.

Obvsiously there's a little bias here towards KG, but I would certainly not complain if he were to join in. I think that Garnett and Bosh would be situation K would probably be happiest with, even though KG hasn't been with this crew.

I think Bosh is a lock. He played well in the last olympics and has a good international game. Colangelo and K know what they're doing though.

superdave
04-24-2012, 01:12 PM
It'd be cool to see Davis out there, I like the kid, but if he's worried about the Gasols and Ibaka, how on God's green earth is Anthony Davis going to defend any of them in the post? You can't play weak side defense in a man to man to help yourself... But he'd be about as useful as Laettner was on the Dream Team, neat to see a college aged kid out there though.

Obvsiously there's a little bias here towards KG, but I would certainly not complain if he were to join in. I think that Garnett and Bosh would be situation K would probably be happiest with, even though KG hasn't been with this crew.

I think Bosh is a lock. He played well in the last olympics and has a good international game. Colangelo and K know what they're doing though.

You and I could combine for more rebounds than Bosh. It's like he's allergic to rebounding.

Bosh is #61 in rebounds per 48 minutes (http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/rebounds/sort/avg48Rebounds/count/41), behind Jason Maxiell and Channing Frye. We have enough scorers on this team, so we should get someone who can crash the boards and play D. In other words, probably not Bosh. I'd rather have Kendrick Perkins, actually.

CDu
04-24-2012, 01:39 PM
I seen Lebron play the 4 and guard the 4 plenty this season.

Bosh, Haslem, and Anthony have averaged a combined 76 mpg at PF and C for the Heat this year (taking into account that Bosh has missed 5 games). In addition, guys like Pittman, Gladness, Howard, and Turiaf have combined for another 14 mpg. That leaves less than 6 mpg for other folks to play PF, and those minutes are split between James and Battier. So I stand by my comment that James rarely plays SF, but that he can certainly do it if needed.

Johnny Chill
04-24-2012, 01:55 PM
Simmons wrote (http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7836691/welcome-back-mailbag) about the Olympic team in his mailbag last Friday.

He's got the following as locks - LeBron, Wade, Durant, Kobe, Rose, Paul, Love, Carmelo and Tyson Chandler. He adds Westbrook as a near lock. That makes 10. Then he debates the merits of the final two spots for big men, centered around the argument that we have to be able to stop the Gasols and Ibaka in the gold medal game vs. Spain.

Blake, Bynum, Bosh, Lamarcus, Garnett and Duncan are the candidates, plus Anthony Davis.

Worth the read.


Of those guys, only Griffin and Bosh are among the current players that will be considered. I think they make it. Bosh has the experience being on the team, and Griffin is pretty much going to dunk his way on the team.

The other guys:
Aldridge is injured, not going to make it back in time.
Duncan and Garnett are old. Doubt they would consider playing or even candidates.
Davis, could be invite to be a part of the Select team that practices against the National team. Doubt he is considered for the Olympic roster.
Bynum, could use the summers getting his knees rest. Would be a good replacement for Howard, maybe Kobe could talk him into it, if asked.

Dont forget Deron Williams. He is a free agent this summer, but its going to be hard to leave him off the roster. I wouldnt be surprised to see 4 PGs on the Olympic team.

BTW: Simmons is a tool. He's just a tabloid writer, looking to stir things up in sports.

superdave
04-24-2012, 02:11 PM
Of those guys, only Griffin and Bosh are among the current players that will be considered. I think they make it. Bosh has the experience being on the team, and Griffin is pretty much going to dunk his way on the team.

The other guys:
Aldridge is injured, not going to make it back in time.
Duncan and Garnett are old. Doubt they would consider playing or even candidates.
Davis, could be invite to be a part of the Select team that practices against the National team. Doubt he is considered for the Olympic roster.
Bynum, could use the summers getting his knees rest. Would be a good replacement for Howard, maybe Kobe could talk him into it, if asked.

Dont forget Deron Williams. He is a free agent this summer, but its going to be hard to leave him off the roster. I wouldnt be surprised to see 4 PGs on the Olympic team.

BTW: Simmons is a tool. He's just a tabloid writer, looking to stir things up in sports.

If you take Deron Williams, you probably leave off Westbrook. I'd rather have Westbrook now to groom him for 2016 when Wade and Paul and Kobe are gone.

I dont think Bynum makes the team. As Simmons points out in what you point as essentially a tabloid, Bynum says he does not want to play, that he'd rather rest his knees. And I doubt Coach K would take someone with serious character flaws.

So if you want another true center, who is an American and enjoys rebounding, you have the olds guys - Garnett, Duncan - or the young guys - Monroe, Davis.

Finally, Blake and Bosh may or may not make the team. I dont think either guy fills a niche that is not already filled. So I disagree with you. I think both have a 50% or less chance of going to London.

Johnny Chill
04-24-2012, 02:39 PM
If you take Deron Williams, you probably leave off Westbrook. I'd rather have Westbrook now to groom him for 2016 when Wade and Paul and Kobe are gone.

I dont think Bynum makes the team. As Simmons points out in what you point as essentially a tabloid, Bynum says he does not want to play, that he'd rather rest his knees. And I doubt Coach K would take someone with serious character flaws.

So if you want another true center, who is an American and enjoys rebounding, you have the olds guys - Garnett, Duncan - or the young guys - Monroe, Davis.

Finally, Blake and Bosh may or may not make the team. I dont think either guy fills a niche that is not already filled. So I disagree with you. I think both have a 50% or less chance of going to London.

I'm glad someone disagrees with me.

Chandler, Bosh at Center
Love, Griffin at PF

Of those 4, Griffin is the least likely to be on the team, since he has no experience with Team USA. But his All Star status and Star Power will give me a edge for the Monroe and Davis.

What makes you think Bosh may or not make the team? His game is perfect for international play. He has been on 2 Olympic teams already, and playing with James and Wade gives him an edge over any 2nd year player or soon to be rookie.



Its going to be hard to keep Westbrook off the team. His game is very similar to Wade, and they way K used him in the World Championship was similar too.

I rather have Deron Williams, a PG that can shoot the 3, than another guy that's skill is similar to Wade. But like I said, Williams is a free agent this summer, that might play into his decision to be on the team.

But lets say Williams does want to be on the team, what makes you think its either Westbrook or Williams? or are you just going off of what Simmons said, because I didnt care to click on his link.

superdave
04-24-2012, 02:56 PM
I'm glad someone disagrees with me.

Chandler, Bosh at Center
Love, Griffin at PF

Of those 4, Griffin is the least likely to be on the team, since he has no experience with Team USA. But his All Star status and Star Power will give me a edge for the Monroe and Davis.

What makes you think Bosh may or not make the team? His game is perfect for international play. He has been on 2 Olympic teams already, and playing with James and Wade gives him an edge over any 2nd year player or soon to be rookie.

Its going to be hard to keep Westbrook off the team. His game is very similar to Wade, and they way K used him in the World Championship was similar too.

I rather have Deron Williams, a PG that can shoot the 3, than another guy that's skill is similar to Wade. But like I said, Williams is a free agent this summer, that might play into his decision to be on the team.

But lets say Williams does want to be on the team, what makes you think its either Westbrook or Williams? or are you just going off of what Simmons said, because I didnt care to click on his link.

Bosh brings shooting to the table, but cannot really slide up and play the 5. He's too soft. I just think his rebounding is too weak. I'd rather have a versatile 4-5 who can shoot and rebound, like Love.

Griffin can rebound, but cannot hit a jumper. He's the opposite of Bosh in that regard. So I dont think either guy is a great fit. I'd rather have Monroe than either of them.

I would not put Davis on team. He's too skinny. I'd go with Garnett or Duncan over him. Or even Camby. But I do like Greg Monroe the best. He's versatile, a solid passer, can crash the boards and block shots. Monroe is 17th in rebounds per 48 (http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/rebounds/sort/avg48Rebounds), compared to Bosh at 61st.

Dev11
04-24-2012, 02:57 PM
I'd rather have Westbrook now to groom him for 2016 when Wade and Paul and Kobe are gone.

I understand that Kobe and Wade would be highly doubtful for 2016, but Paul would still be young enough to compete, knees notwithstanding.

Not disagreeing, just pointing out that grooming Westbrook may not be critical until 2016, as he and Paul could both be on the squad.

Johnny Chill
04-24-2012, 03:00 PM
Bosh brings shooting to the table, but cannot really slide up and play the 5. He's too soft. I just think his rebounding is too weak. I'd rather have a versatile 4-5 who can shoot and rebound, like Love.

Griffin can rebound, but cannot hit a jumper. He's the opposite of Bosh in that regard. So I dont think either guy is a great fit. I'd rather have Monroe than either of them.

I would not put Davis on team. He's too skinny. I'd go with Garnett or Duncan over him. Or even Camby. But I do like Greg Monroe the best. He's versatile, a solid passer, can crash the boards and block shots. Monroe is 17th in rebounds per 48 (http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/rebounds/sort/avg48Rebounds), compared to Bosh at 61st.


Monroe isnt even on the list of candidates. He could be on the Select team.
Garnett, Duncan, Camby arent even thinking about the Olympics.

You gonna have to accept that Bosh and Griffin both being on the Olympic team is pretty high, much higher than the 50% you give them. Because everyone you name isnt even in consideration, I dont understand what point your trying to make.

J4Kop99
04-24-2012, 03:07 PM
I don't know, Bosh is pretty good in international games, and we had 3 true bigs on the 2008 team. Only two in 2010, but we also had Odom who played the 5 at times. My best guess at this point:

Paul
Bryant
James
Durant
Chandler

Bench guards: Westbrook, Williams
Wings/Forwards: Anthony, Wade, Gay
Bigs: Love, Bosh

With maybe Griffin or a shooter like Curry having a chance to beat out Gay or Bosh.

I don't think Howard's injury is a huge deal, honestly. Chandler has been very good in international play, and has completely bought into the "Zoubek role" in the past.

this looks almost identical to a post I saw a few pages back...


I just had Love start instead of Chandler. Also, I don't think Rose fits on this team at all. Too much of a scorer. Paul is the perfect fit and Williams is the perfect back up. Rose is too good to be the 3rd man, so leave him off the team and throw westbrook in as the 3rd. Rose and Rondo just don't seem to fit with this team.

We don't need ridiculous size to win. Love, Chandler, Bosh, LeBron, Melo and Durant should be fine. Melo and LeBron can play the 4 position in Euroball with relative ease.

Johnny Chill
04-24-2012, 03:08 PM
Bosh, Haslem, and Anthony have averaged a combined 76 mpg at PF and C for the Heat this year (taking into account that Bosh has missed 5 games). In addition, guys like Pittman, Gladness, Howard, and Turiaf have combined for another 14 mpg. That leaves less than 6 mpg for other folks to play PF, and those minutes are split between James and Battier. So I stand by my comment that James rarely plays SF, but that he can certainly do it if needed.

You did a great job looking up the stats for minutes played. But I just watch the games. I seen James guard Dirk, Pau Gasol, Griffin, Taj Gibson, Boozer. And it wasnt on rotation or switch.

superdave
04-24-2012, 03:15 PM
Monroe isnt even on the list of candidates. He could be on the Select team.
Garnett, Duncan, Camby arent even thinking about the Olympics.

You gonna have to accept that Bosh and Griffin both being on the Olympic team is pretty high, much higher than the 50% you give them. Because everyone you name isnt even in consideration, I dont understand what point your trying to make.

My point is the list is not complete. A 20-man list that loses half the big men on it is not longer a worthwhile 20-man list. If we want to compete in London that list and not expand it, then we'll compete in London with one true center (Chandler) and that's it. Not wise.

I think you can get by with only Chandler and Howard if they are both on your roster. But with Howard gone, I think Chandler's proven fragile enough over the years that I want two more bigs who can play the 5 if necessary. To do that, you have to address the fact that your 20-man roster has 15 players on it today due to injury. Love can play the 5. But I would not trust Bosh to play the 5 against anyone over 190lbs. I want more size, so I'd go out and find it. Monroe's my guy.

Remember that JaVale (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizardsinsider/2010/08/javale-mcgee-and-jeff-green-of.html) almost made the 2010 team...and Lamar Odom (http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/feed/2010-08/fiba-worlds/story/coach-k-puts-golden-touch-on-team-usa) started at center. So strange things can and will happen on the way to London.

Dev11
04-24-2012, 03:30 PM
Monroe isnt even on the list of candidates. He could be on the Select team.

Probably not, as the Select Team is comprised of college players, not young pros. Kyle and Nolan were on it two years ago.

(I'm only here to nitpick, not offer any opinions)

Greg_Newton
04-24-2012, 04:17 PM
But I would not trust Bosh to play the 5 against anyone over 190lbs. I want more size, so I'd go out and find it.

Bosh did pretty well as Howard's backup at C in 2008. I don't see why he couldn't fill that role again in 2012, with Love and Chandler on the squad to brawl with the Marc Gasols of the world, if necessary.

Also, I think it's far from a given that Rose will play this year, given his health. I would think we'd take both Williams and Westbrook, in that case.

superdave
04-24-2012, 05:28 PM
Bosh did pretty well as Howard's backup at C in 2008. I don't see why he couldn't fill that role again in 2012, with Love and Chandler on the squad to brawl with the Marc Gasols of the world, if necessary.

Also, I think it's far from a given that Rose will play this year, given his health. I would think we'd take both Williams and Westbrook, in that case.

Without Howard on the roster, I would not want Chandler as much my only true center and PFs Bosh and Love as makeshift centers. I want another true center. I think Chandler is fragile, Love is too short and Bosh is too thin.

I agree on Rose. It will be interesting to see how he fares in the playoffs.

SilkyJ
04-24-2012, 05:40 PM
but the lack of a top tier true center on the team may hurt us in the later rounds when we play teams like Spain and Brazil that have 1st class frontlines.



Without Howard on the roster, I would not want Chandler as much my only true center and PFs Bosh and Love as makeshift centers. I want another true center. I think Chandler is fragile, Love is too short and Bosh is too thin.

I completely agree, as I stated in my previous post. In 2008, we got away with having 1 true center who was dominant, and two PFs who could sub in at times (Bosh and Boozer). Chandler as our lone true center may be servicable, but certainly isn't dominant, and I think it may hurt us if we don't sign another top tier guy.



Blake, Bynum, Bosh, Lamarcus, Garnett and Duncan are the candidates, plus Anthony Davis.


Bynum is the only real option here. Lamarcus Aldrdige is out with an injury. Neither Griffin nor Garnett are true centers (and Garnett hasn't been involved with USA basketball since he won gold in 2000). Duncan was born in the 14th century and hasn't been involved with USA basketball since 2004. My guess is he's monitoring his mileage, but maybe he could be convinced...given Tim's game and his character, I would have thought Coach K would have approached him the first time around in 2006/2008. Don't know whether he was approached or not, but if he was and he declined I don't see him saying yes now either.

Without a 1st class, true center to man the paint for 20-25mpg, this team would appear flawed when paired against a spain or brazil (other teams with great frontlines?), but then again they won the worlds in 2010 with the "B" team and Lamar Odom starting at Center (they played and beat brazil but did not play spain), so K can probably figure it out.

Dukehky
04-24-2012, 05:46 PM
I completely agree, as I stated in my previous post. In 2008, we got away with having 1 true center who was dominant, and two PFs who could sub in at times (Bosh and Boozer). Chandler as our lone true center may be servicable, but certainly isn't dominant, and I think it may hurt us if we don't sign another top tier guy.



Bynum is the only real option here. Lamarcus Aldrdige is out with an injury. Neither Griffin nor Garnett are true centers (and Garnett hasn't been involved with USA basketball since he won gold in 2000). Duncan was born in the 14th century and hasn't been involved with USA basketball since 2004. My guess is he's monitoring his mileage, but maybe he could be convinced...given Tim's game and his character, I would have thought Coach K would have approached him the first time around in 2006/2008. Don't know whether he was approached or not, but if he was and he declined I don't see him saying yes now either.

Without a 1st class, true center to man the paint for 20-25mpg, this team would appear flawed when paired against a spain or brazil (other teams with great frontlines?), but then again they won the worlds in 2010 with the "B" team and Lamar Odom starting at Center (they played and beat brazil but did not play spain), so K can probably figure it out.


I thought I remembered hearing that Timmy really didn't like Coach K and really doesn't want to play for him in any facet. Please correct me if this is wrong, I honestly thought I remembered that though.

Regardless of whether there is some animosity towards K from Duncan's perspective, I would be truly shocked to see Duncan play in the Olympics.

A-Tex Devil
04-24-2012, 07:43 PM
Westbrook>Rose in the international game. The World Championsips showed that, although maybe time will make a difference.

US is in a real bind for post players and Chandler is a must, simply to guard Spain. Simmons' Garnett idea isn't as far fetched as it sounds from a practicality standpoint but I am afraid USBA isn't that creative. Blake Griffin will sit the bench and/ or be a disaster. We don't need the offense and he can't play defense. The first time he gets called for an offensive foul for using his non ball arm to clear out the defender will ruin him for the international game.

Greg_Newton
04-24-2012, 08:52 PM
Bynum is the only real option here.

He won't be playing (http://articles.latimes.com/2012/apr/20/sports/la-sp-lakers-fyi-20120421).

awhom111
04-26-2012, 08:02 PM
Here is some information on Monday's draw:
http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fc/news/lateNews/p/newsid/51419/arti.html

Soon we will get to think about our actual opponents in the first round.


Here is also an article covering the topic that has been discussed here recently:
http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fc/news/lateNews/p/newsid/51404/arti.html

SilkyJ
04-26-2012, 10:01 PM
He won't be playing (http://articles.latimes.com/2012/apr/20/sports/la-sp-lakers-fyi-20120421).


Here is some information on Monday's draw:
http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fc/news/lateNews/p/newsid/51419/arti.html

Soon we will get to think about our actual opponents in the first round.


Here is also an article covering the topic that has been discussed here recently:
http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fc/news/lateNews/p/newsid/51404/arti.html

Looks like it'll be Chandler, Bosh and Love. Griffin is obviously a superstar in the league so I'll give him a shot, but his offensive game isn't a fit at all, and I don't think he's exactly a stalwart on defense, though he could be with the right focus. The people who make the team to play the 5 will be the guys willing to play defense and rebound.

NSDukeFan
04-27-2012, 08:08 AM
Looks like it'll be Chandler, Bosh and Love. Griffin is obviously a superstar in the league so I'll give him a shot, but his offensive game isn't a fit at all, and I don't think he's exactly a stalwart on defense, though he could be with the right focus. The people who make the team to play the 5 will be the guys willing to play defense and rebound.

Would Josh Smith get a look for a big man spot? (Not the guy besides the Wears that Tony Parker is backing up.) (Not the Tony Parker who was married to Eva Longoria.) (Not the Evan Longoria who plays for the Tampa Bay Rays.)

SilkyJ
04-27-2012, 08:16 AM
Would Josh Smith get a look for a big man spot? (Not the guy besides the Wears that Tony Parker is backing up.) (Not the Tony Parker who was married to Eva Longoria.) (Not the Evan Longoria who plays for the Tampa Bay Rays.)

Per the article linked above (and here again (http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fc/news/lateNews/p/newsid/51404/arti.html)) they won't be inviting anymore people to the training camp. So no.

(BTW At first I definitely thought you were talking about the 300lb monster who ate Larry Drew at UCLA...then couldn't figure it out, then realized you were talking about the ATL Hawks PF. Personally, not a bad idea imo, but I don't think he's the type of guy K and Colangelo are looking for. Either way its moot, the guys that are on the roster now, i.e. the roster that was announced a few months ago, are the ones they are moving forward with)

NSDukeFan
04-27-2012, 08:31 AM
Per the article linked above (and here again (http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fc/news/lateNews/p/newsid/51404/arti.html)) they won't be inviting anymore people to the training camp. So no.

(BTW At first I definitely thought you were talking about the 300lb monster who ate Larry Drew at UCLA...then couldn't figure it out, then realized you were talking about the ATL Hawks PF. Personally, not a bad idea imo, but I don't think he's the type of guy K and Colangelo are looking for. Either way its moot, the guys that are on the roster now, i.e. the roster that was announced a few months ago, are the ones they are moving forward with)

Thanks for sharing that. I hadn't noticed it before. That does make it a little nicer in that there aren't as many cuts that have to be made.

throatybeard
04-28-2012, 12:40 AM
Duncan was born in the 14th century and hasn't been involved with USA basketball since 2004.

Dude is tough. He survived the plague.

Johnny Chill
04-28-2012, 03:13 AM
Probably not, as the Select Team is comprised of college players, not young pros. Kyle and Nolan were on it two years ago.

(I'm only here to nitpick, not offer any opinions)

The Select Team will have NBA players on it. Young Pros.

SilkyJ
04-28-2012, 03:01 PM
Dude is tough. He survived the plague.

Might have even fought in some of the later crusades?


My best guess at this point:

Paul
Bryant
James
Durant
Chandler

Bench guards: Westbrook, Williams



I think Rose would get the nod over Westbrook IF he were going to play, but I doubt that he would even attempt it after the injury bug bit him hard this season.

You guys have Derrick Rose, the reigning MVP who started on the 2010 team (the year before he won MVP) not making the team or barely making the team? I'm gonna say you guys aren't giving him nearlyenough credit. I think he not only makes the team, but he's my pick to start at this point. He's got a great attitude, K loves the kid and he's added a legit jumper to his game over the last two years, which puts him over the top imo. Did I mention he's the MVP?

SilkyJ
04-28-2012, 03:03 PM
Omg I think i killed derrick rose. (sry I'm watching the playoffs on DVR delay)

Greg_Newton
04-28-2012, 03:39 PM
Omg I think i killed derrick rose. (sry I'm watching the playoffs on DVR delay)

Haha wow, you really did.

BTW, Chandler and Bosh look absolutely terrible today. I'm rethinking my stance on Bosh being a legitimate NBA player, not to mention a member of the national team.

PumpkinFunk
04-28-2012, 05:41 PM
Haha wow, you really did.

BTW, Chandler and Bosh look absolutely terrible today. I'm rethinking my stance on Bosh being a legitimate NBA player, not to mention a member of the national team.

Bosh was one of those "good player on mediocre team" who looked better because of the team he was on. Last season, he was pretty solid. This year, he's fallen off the map. I think because LeBron is playing better, Bosh has lost it. Defensively, Bosh isn't that great. Offensively, he's been bad. He's not a great rebounder, either. Chandler is an offensive black hole and Bosh is risky. I'm very concerned about how our front line can go up against the Gasol brothers. We have mismatches at the 1-3 positions, but we're totally outclassed by the Gasol brothers (and potentially Serge Ibaka, who is on the Spanish national team, too). Gonna be one of the big issues Coach K has to deal with.

Johnny Chill
04-28-2012, 06:13 PM
Rose is done.
Deron Williams has said that he wants to sign before the Olympics, if he doesn't he won't go.

This is a homer pick but I would love to see Kyrie as the PG to make it if Williams doesn't go. Paul would be the only true PG on the team w/o Williams. Westbrook is more of a combo.

Greg_Newton
04-28-2012, 06:49 PM
Seems like Paul/Westbrook/Williams would be locks for the PG spot if Williams can settle his contract, but it definitely does get murkier after that. I'd have to assume that Rondo would be up before Kyrie, but it's certainly not a ridiculous suggestion...

SilkyJ
04-28-2012, 08:09 PM
Seems like Paul/Westbrook/Williams would be locks for the PG spot if Williams can settle his contract, but it definitely does get murkier after that. I'd have to assume that Rondo would be up before Kyrie, but it's certainly not a ridiculous suggestion...

They;ve said they wont add anyone, but i guess if people keep going down you might be forced to. Still, you're probably fine even if you take only two of Paul/WBrook/Williams as Kobe, Wade, and Lebron are all more than capable of playing I]and guarding[/I] the PG position.

If we only take 2 PGs, I would think that a lineup of Kobe, Wade, Lebron, Durant + a post player might be our best or 2nd best lineup and I won't be surprised to see it a fair amount.

gep
04-28-2012, 10:54 PM
This is a homer pick but I would love to see Kyrie as the PG to make it if Williams doesn't go. Paul would be the only true PG on the team w/o Williams. Westbrook is more of a combo.

Yes... staying with the homer picks... what about Kyle, who has been in Spain the last year?

Johnny Chill
04-28-2012, 11:40 PM
Yes... staying with the homer picks... what about Kyle, who has been in Spain the last year?

You think he will make the Spanish National Team?

subzero02
04-29-2012, 01:40 AM
Let's hope no one else gets hurt during the playoffs... Kyrie might get his chance earlier than anyone thought. It is not a stretch to see Chris Paul decide to skip the Olympics if he gets too banged up in the playoffs.

SilkyJ
04-29-2012, 09:52 AM
Per the frontpage, "all bets are off" and K&Colangelo may look to add someone. Link. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/sam_amick/04/28/usa.basketball.injuries/)

They specifically mention the PG & Center positions as areas where they'll have to look, no surprise, and the only player they mention by name here Demarcus Cousins, who was being considered for the select team, but don't mention anyone else other than the select team in general. The writer mentions Bynum, who has said he won't be available due to knee therapy.

Another interesting item that I had forgotten about: 12-man final rosters are due on June 1. Playoffs aren't over til June 28, and Colangelo hinted they may try and request more time...no idea if that'll actually work. I had forgotten that they're submitting rosters without any sort of tryout, that makes the selection process even more difficult.


Let's hope no one else gets hurt during the playoffs... Kyrie might get his chance earlier than anyone thought.

I doubt it, but i'll give it a 10% chance given Colangelo's comments. I think Paul, Westbrook and Williams will all make the team over him given their commitment and involvement for several years. That's part of what K & Colangelo ask for from the players, and its something I'm sure they'll put some emphasis on when picking the team. Kyrie is actually the best shooter of the bunch, which will help him, and it wouldn't surprise me if Kyrie outplayed, by a little, westbrook and williams in a tryout--but there won't be any tryouts. While K knows Kyrie well and really likes him, given that he's less established given he's a rookie, his inexperience overall (though he certainly plays beyond his year), some of his holes on defense, and the other guys' longer term commitment to the national team, I think those 3 guys will all make it over him.

Its a very similar situation to 2008 when Durant almost made the team after his rookie year, but didn't quite make the cut and K gave preference to some guys who had been committed for several years and could play a specific role like Tayshaun Prince.

But the injury bug is out there and if it bites and/or if D-Will can't get his free agency dealt with in a timely manner than Kyrie may be pressed into service (though free agency doesn't start til July 1...so that's another quirk K&Co have to deal with--what if they put D-Will on the roster, and come late July he still hasn't signed with a team and has to skip?? Now they're down to 11 players before even getting to London!). Still, let's say only two of Paul/Westbrook/Williams are available in a month, it wouldn't shock me to see K&Co. only take those two, leaving Kyrie off, given the glut of players on the wing, and the number of those guys that can handle the ball. Wade, Lebron and even Kobe are all capable of being our 3rd PG in a pinch (realistically we're talking a few minutes/game...unless someone gets injured in London...).

While I had Rose starting for this team, I'm less worried about our PG situation than our C situation. At the end of the day, we still have 4 of the best 5 or 6 players in the game with Wade, Lebron, Kobe and Durant who will all command the ball, and b/w paul/williams/westbrook I think we'll be just fine at PG. What we really need is someone to be serviceable in the post in terms of rebounding and defense. I think we can manage, but I'm curious to see if we add someone...the hardest part is how do you add someone who hasn't really been a part of the program, and who won't even have a workout/tryout? Especially a headcase like Demarcus Cousins?

Starter
04-29-2012, 12:34 PM
Not for nothing, Chris Bosh isn't a bad player. Good numbers this year, Top 50 in efficiency, slightly better than Chandler. He's not a banger, but he can play for my team any time. He's just not scoring 24 points per game anymore since he's on a team with two much better basketball players.

My feeling is that you'd see me play for Team USA before you see Rondo play there after the weirdness two years ago.

Cousins is an interesting case. He'd make sense skills- and needs-wise, but Krzyzewski and Co. would have to be convinced he'd be on his best behavior, and I think similar concerns arose with Rondo a couple years ago, legit or not. That said, he'd be an asset for depth alone, much less his high level of talent, and I'd love to see him on the team. Perhaps they spin it that he has an opportunity to learn in a structured environment with a great coaching staff and teammates. Which is all true.

SilkyJ
04-29-2012, 05:12 PM
Cousins is an interesting case. He'd make sense skills- and needs-wise, but Krzyzewski and Co. would have to be convinced he'd be on his best behavior, and I think similar concerns arose with Rondo a couple years ago, legit or not. That said, he'd be an asset for depth alone, much less his high level of talent, and I'd love to see him on the team. Perhaps they spin it that he has an opportunity to learn in a structured environment with a great coaching staff and teammates. Which is all true.

Agree 100%. Makes sense in terms of the team's needs, but he seems to have some serious baggage. W/O a tryout opportunity to see how he meshes with the players, accepts his role, etc. its hard to even get a read on whether the structure and veteran mentoring he'd get would actually keep that baggage in check. Arenas and Rondo are examples where the tryouts brought out the fact that the baggage would be too much. In both cases those guys were more established than Demarcus is, so Cousins' age and inexperience in the leauge might mean he's more open to receiving mentoring, but I think its a big gamble to put him on the team w/o the opportunity to at least see how he meshes in a tryout environment. Throw in the fact that he's not likely to start and would need to fully embrace a 2nd or 3rd string role, something he's never had to do, and its even dicier.

Wheat/"/"/"
04-29-2012, 10:55 PM
Somebody might want to think about giving Ty Lawson a look if they decide another point guard is needed to replace Rose.

SilkyJ
04-30-2012, 08:42 AM
Somebody might want to think about giving Ty Lawson a look if they decide another point guard is needed to replace Rose.

How's Ty's D and how does he deal with larger, more physical PGs? He's definitely a really solid PG and very quick offensively, but the int'l game favors bigger, more physical PGs. Ty is definitely strong, but he's a little on the small side, especially for int'l ball, and I don't recall him being great defensively in general or against bigger PGs, but that could have easily changed. He has become a pretty good shooter, which would be a plus for him.

CDu
04-30-2012, 08:52 AM
Somebody might want to think about giving Ty Lawson a look if they decide another point guard is needed to replace Rose.

Lawson is several spots down the pecking order at PG. We have Paul, Williams, Westbrook, and Rondo (if he and Coach K could put the past behind them) as the top 4 remaining options at PG. Lawson would be in a pack with Wall, Conley, and Jennings as the next tier of PG.

UrinalCake
04-30-2012, 10:02 AM
I'd love to see Kyrie play for the US, but I don't think it will happen this year for a number of reasons

- experience, both in terms of lack of playing time and being further down the pecking order behind guys who have more seniority
- Kyrie is a scoring guard, and this team needs more of a distributor
- his turnovers are still kind of high
- the international game lends itself towards big, physical guards. Kyrie is incredibly quick and crafty but not as physical as guys like Rose, Williams, even Rondo.

Of course I still love the guy and I expect him to be in the conversation the next time around.

mkirsh
04-30-2012, 11:40 AM
Still, let's say only two of Paul/Westbrook/Williams are available in a month, it wouldn't shock me to see K&Co. only take those two, leaving Kyrie off, given the glut of players on the wing, and the number of those guys that can handle the ball. Wade, Lebron and even Kobe are all capable of being our 3rd PG in a pinch (realistically we're talking a few minutes/game...unless someone gets injured in London...).



With the injury to Rose, I wouldn't be surprised if K asked Jason Kidd to come back to provide depth and leadership at the PG spot (in limited minutes of course).

superdave
04-30-2012, 12:03 PM
With the injury to Rose, I wouldn't be surprised if K asked Jason Kidd to come back to provide depth and leadership at the PG spot (in limited minutes of course).

Fortunately the U.S. has plenty of depth at point. Paul, Deron Williams and Westbrook can all play it and are not aging in dog years like Kidd. Also, Deron and Westbrook can play the 2 spot.

I think the biggest concern is going to be the big guys.

Billy Dat
04-30-2012, 01:35 PM
RE: The Select Team
A Colangelo said a few weeks back, they are trying to pick the Select Team with a vision of it being the 2014 World Championship Team. I guess they understand that it is unrealistic to expect most of the guys to give up their summers every other year. So, the Worlds serve as kind of a tryout for the Olympic Team and the Olympic teams winds up being a mix of the prior Olympic team and the Worlds team. Had the US not won the World gold in 2010, that may not have become the blueprint but I think it is sound.

RE: Kyrie and Lawson
I'd hope both would get serious consideration for the Select Team. Kyrie has a decent amount of USA Basketball already under his belt. As for Lawson, who better than K knows how good that guy is? He has really impressed me in the pros. As for his stature, Lawson is pretty thick and strong, I don't worry about him getting punked around. Chris Paul is slight and has done well in FIBA competition.

RE: Rondo
I agree with those who say his Team USA days are over. The story seems to be that it was Rondo v Rose and Rose prevailed, and Rondo is too proud (I don't blame him) to keep coming back and being potentially rejected. I think Agent Zero, too, just wasn't good enough. But, I don't blame him for getting pissed that they had him fly all the way to Japan for 2-3 days only to send him home.

RE: Cousins
I think the presence of so many established Superstars prevents any young buck from acting out. While Cousins did get his coach fired, he also played his butt off since that firing. It's a risk, but one that I think is worth taking. I also think these kids need a chance to grow up and shouldn't forever be labeled by what they did when they were 20 and 21. If he's smart, he'd jump at the chance.

There are a lot of playoff games to be played and the risk of injury is huge. I don't know if we have the chance to add players as injuries occur after the final roster is submitted? If so, the guys on the Select Team will be that much more important.

UrinalCake
04-30-2012, 02:49 PM
Anyone else catch the Stern interview on the Colin Cowherd show this morning? He was asked about a number of topics, and at one point said they would consider going to the model that they use in soccer and only allow players 23 and under to compete. I'm not entirely sure what the rationale for this is (didn't catch the whole interview), nor did I hear him say if this would open the door to college players getting a shot. At that point in the discussion they had been talking about all of the injuries this season and whether the compressed schedule had anything to do with it, and that led to a discussion of guys who also play in the Olympics, and then he brought up the under 23 idea. So maybe he thinks younger guys can handle playing the extra games.

Going back a little, when professional athletes were first allowed to compete in the Olympics, he said there was a lot of discussion about what to do with NBA players. The international players in the NBA were going to be playing for their home countries, and it would be hard to stop them from doing so, so it wouldn't make sense to only prevent American NBA players from playing for the USA. I wonder if this will be a similar issue moving forward if the under-23 rule comes into play. NBA players who are over 23 could still play for other countries, presumably. I guess it depends if it's an NBA rule or a USA Basketball rule. And does the NBA have any jurisdiction over players who play for different countries, unless it's specifically included in their contract?

awhom111
04-30-2012, 03:20 PM
I am little bit surprised that nobody has linked up the results of this morning's group draw yet:
http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fc/news/presRele/p/newsid/51452/presReleArti.html

The United States gets Argentina, France, Tunisia, and the top two qualifiers in the final tournament. The other group is Spain, Australia, China, Brazil, Great Britain, and the last qualifier from the final tournament. The top 4 teams in each group move on to the next round.

It is hard to tell right now how tough our group is. Argentina's stars are probably looking at this tournament as being one final opportunity together while France is a pretty solid team, but one we probably match up with better than some other teams. Drawing the top qualifiers good make things pretty tough with the possibility of a Russia in addition to either Greece or Lithuania, although I would not count out the other teams from the Americas with the tournament being held in Venezuela and Macedonia will look to recapture their magic from last summer.

On the other hand, Geno was basically handed one of the easiest possible groups for his team.

A-Tex Devil
04-30-2012, 03:38 PM
Anyone else catch the Stern interview on the Colin Cowherd show this morning? He was asked about a number of topics, and at one point said they would consider going to the model that they use in soccer and only allow players 23 and under to compete. I'm not entirely sure what the rationale for this is (didn't catch the whole interview), nor did I hear him say if this would open the door to college players getting a shot. At that point in the discussion they had been talking about all of the injuries this season and whether the compressed schedule had anything to do with it, and that led to a discussion of guys who also play in the Olympics, and then he brought up the under 23 idea. So maybe he thinks younger guys can handle playing the extra games.

Going back a little, when professional athletes were first allowed to compete in the Olympics, he said there was a lot of discussion about what to do with NBA players. The international players in the NBA were going to be playing for their home countries, and it would be hard to stop them from doing so, so it wouldn't make sense to only prevent American NBA players from playing for the USA. I wonder if this will be a similar issue moving forward if the under-23 rule comes into play. NBA players who are over 23 could still play for other countries, presumably. I guess it depends if it's an NBA rule or a USA Basketball rule. And does the NBA have any jurisdiction over players who play for different countries, unless it's specifically included in their contract?

I would be fine with this idea, which I think may be a FIFA rule and not an Olympics rule. Have FIBA require an all under 23 team with 2 exceptions. Although the exceptions would have a much bigger impact, I think, in basketball than it does on soccer.

I think, even with K and Colangelo, there tends to be a a bit of group think and deference for deference's sake when the US teams are finally picked. By having this "under 23" rule, there is a freshness to it every 4 years that I think could be worthwhile. The only reason the Dream Team existed is because, as someone stated upthread, in 1988, we were the only country not playing its professionals, and it showed. If every team has to follow the same rules, we are still on an even playing field.

Johnny Chill
04-30-2012, 04:02 PM
RE: Cousins
I think the presence of so many established Superstars prevents any young buck from acting out. While Cousins did get his coach fired, he also played his butt off since that firing. It's a risk, but one that I think is worth taking. I also think these kids need a chance to grow up and shouldn't forever be labeled by what they did when they were 20 and 21. If he's smart, he'd jump at the chance.

There are a lot of playoff games to be played and the risk of injury is huge. I don't know if we have the chance to add players as injuries occur after the final roster is submitted? If so, the guys on the Select Team will be that much more important.

Great points.
I wanted to focus mainly Cousins. I watch him play a lot. His offensive game is legit for a 2nd year player. He is so talented, I think he is a better player than Blake Griffin. But he has one of the worst personalities on the court I ever seen and he isnt the only one on the Kings like that. Losing must suck or has he always been like this? Team USA doesnt need a guy with that horrible personality on the team.

BUt if given the chance to compete for a spot on the Olympic team, I think he would beat out the likes of Greg Monroe, or any other big man that isnt already on the National team. Being on the Olympic team, and practicing against some future hall of famers, all stars, NBA champions, and being coach by K, would be a huge stepping stone for his career. We all saw how the guys from the 2010 World Championships teams are doing now.

With that said, I still rather see a guy like Zach Randolph, Boozer, even Greg Monroe than Cousins on the team.

BD80
04-30-2012, 07:29 PM
Great points.
I wanted to focus mainly Cousins. I watch him play a lot. His offensive game is legit for a 2nd year player. He is so talented, I think he is a better player than Blake Griffin. But he has one of the worst personalities on the court I ever seen and he isnt the only one on the Kings like that. Losing must suck or has he always been like this? Team USA doesnt need a guy with that horrible personality on the team.

BUt if given the chance to compete for a spot on the Olympic team, I think he would beat out the likes of Greg Monroe, or any other big man that isnt already on the National team. Being on the Olympic team, and practicing against some future hall of famers, all stars, NBA champions, and being coach by K, would be a huge stepping stone for his career. We all saw how the guys from the 2010 World Championships teams are doing now.

With that said, I still rather see a guy like Zach Randolph, Boozer, even Greg Monroe than Cousins on the team.

I think Monroe would make a good choice for the international competition. He has good size, so he can defend the post fairly well, and is as mobile as any big man. He is a very skilled passer, and should execute nicely in the larger lane. He will rebound, defend and facilitate offense nicely as a 5 in Coach K's scheme.

Newton_14
04-30-2012, 09:04 PM
How's Ty's D and how does he deal with larger, more physical PGs? He's definitely a really solid PG and very quick offensively, but the int'l game favors bigger, more physical PGs. Ty is definitely strong, but he's a little on the small side, especially for int'l ball, and I don't recall him being great defensively in general or against bigger PGs, but that could have easily changed. He has become a pretty good shooter, which would be a plus for him.

Yeah, he would get killed on the high Pick and Roll. Great guy to have on offense, but would likely be a liability on defense. I would rather have one of the bigger PG's on the depth chart.

Starter
05-01-2012, 12:55 AM
I think Monroe would make a good choice for the international competition. He has good size, so he can defend the post fairly well, and is as mobile as any big man. He is a very skilled passer, and should execute nicely in the larger lane. He will rebound, defend and facilitate offense nicely as a 5 in Coach K's scheme.

Couldn't agree more. Monroe seems like he'd be very good in the international game.

BD80
05-01-2012, 07:10 AM
Monroe will also be well rested, no playoffs to wear him down.

superdave
05-01-2012, 07:45 AM
Great points.
With that said, I still rather see a guy like Zach Randolph, Boozer, even Greg Monroe than Cousins on the team.


I think Monroe would make a good choice for the international competition. He has good size, so he can defend the post fairly well, and is as mobile as any big man. He is a very skilled passer, and should execute nicely in the larger lane. He will rebound, defend and facilitate offense nicely as a 5 in Coach K's scheme.


Yeah, he would get killed on the high Pick and Roll. Great guy to have on offense, but would likely be a liability on defense. I would rather have one of the bigger PG's on the depth chart.


Couldn't agree more. Monroe seems like he'd be very good in the international game.


Monroe will also be well rested, no playoffs to wear him down.

Welcome to the fan club, you all. I think Monroe is a 20-10 guy with Euro style passing skills. If he really starts knocking down the elbow and baseline jumper with consistency, watch out. He'd be a great fit for the US team in the high post.

Johnny Chill
05-01-2012, 09:48 AM
Welcome to the fan club, you all. I think Monroe is a 20-10 guy with Euro style passing skills. If he really starts knocking down the elbow and baseline jumper with consistency, watch out. He'd be a great fit for the US team in the high post.

Yes, Monroe would be a better option to represent Team USA, because he doesnt have the negative baggage. But Cousins is the better player. Hopefully both get invited to practice against the team and even challenge for a spot. I wouldnt bet against Cousins.
Cousins can be a 24-12 guy.

Billy Dat
05-01-2012, 09:57 AM
Considering that Jerry Colangelo said that the 2012 Select Team will be formed with an eye toward it competing in the 2014 World Championships, and because the injury bug keeps hitting the 2012 Olympic team, and because the top alternates for the Olympic Team will likely come from the Select Team, I think we should waste some time trying to figure out who will be on the Select Team.

The first place to look for potential Select Team members are guys who played in the 2010 Worlds but aren’t expected to make the 2012 Olympic Team. We’ll forget Lamar Odom (personal issues) and Chauncey Billups (age). For this summer, because of injuries, we also have to ignore Steph Curry and Eric Gordon. If we assume Derrick Rose, Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, Kevin Love and Tyson Chandler are all Olympic hopefuls, that leaves; Rudy Gay, Andre Iguodala and Danny Granger.

The next place to looks is anyone we haven’t yet mentioned who was part of the officially announced 2010-2012 Senior National Team Pool of players. That group included the following players that we haven’t mentioned as part of the Olympic Team or 2010 Worlds Team; Carlos Boozer, Tyreke Evans, Jeff Green, Al Jefferson, David Lee, Brook Lopez, Robin Lopez, OJ Mayo, Kendrick Perkins, Tayshaun Prince, Rajon Rondo, Amar’e Stoudemire, Gerald Wallace. Based on recent play, injury issues or past Team USA bad experience, I think the only players with a shot at the Select Team out of this group are Evans, Jefferson and Mayo.

So who remains? Here’s my list of potentials aside from those bolded above:

Centers:
Greg Monroe, Roy Hibbert, Spencer Hawes, Anthony Davis

Forwards:
Paul Milsap, Demarcus Cousins, Kenneth Faried, Ryan Andersen, Josh Smith, Derrick Favors, Thad Young, Taj Gibson, Brandan Wright, Kawhi Leonard, Steve Novak

Guards:
Kyrie Irving, Lou Williams, Jeremy Lin, John Wall, Mike Conley, Brandon Jennings, Kyle Lowry, James Harden, Joe Johnson (give him another shot), Monta Ellis, Paul George, George Hill, Gordon Hayward, Tony Allen, Arron Afflalo

What do you guys think?

CDu
05-01-2012, 10:17 AM
Considering that Jerry Colangelo said that the 2012 Select Team will be formed with an eye toward it competing in the 2014 World Championships, and because the injury bug keeps hitting the 2012 Olympic team, and because the top alternates for the Olympic Team will likely come from the Select Team, I think we should waste some time trying to figure out who will be on the Select Team.

The first place to look for potential Select Team members are guys who played in the 2010 Worlds but aren’t expected to make the 2012 Olympic Team. We’ll forget Lamar Odom (personal issues) and Chauncey Billups (age). For this summer, because of injuries, we also have to ignore Steph Curry and Eric Gordon. If we assume Derrick Rose, Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, Kevin Love and Tyson Chandler are all Olympic hopefuls, that leaves; Rudy Gay, Andre Iguodala and Danny Granger.

The next place to looks is anyone we haven’t yet mentioned who was part of the officially announced 2010-2012 Senior National Team Pool of players. That group included the following players that we haven’t mentioned as part of the Olympic Team or 2010 Worlds Team; Carlos Boozer, Tyreke Evans, Jeff Green, Al Jefferson, David Lee, Brook Lopez, Robin Lopez, OJ Mayo, Kendrick Perkins, Tayshaun Prince, Rajon Rondo, Amar’e Stoudemire, Gerald Wallace. Based on recent play, injury issues or past Team USA bad experience, I think the only players with a shot at the Select Team out of this group are Evans, Jefferson and Mayo.

So who remains? Here’s my list of potentials aside from those bolded above:

Centers:
Greg Monroe, Roy Hibbert, Spencer Hawes, Anthony Davis

Forwards:
Paul Milsap, Demarcus Cousins, Kenneth Faried, Ryan Andersen, Josh Smith, Derrick Favors, Thad Young, Taj Gibson, Brandan Wright, Kawhi Leonard, Steve Novak

Guards:
Kyrie Irving, Lou Williams, Jeremy Lin, John Wall, Mike Conley, Brandon Jennings, Kyle Lowry, James Harden, Joe Johnson (give him another shot), Monta Ellis, Paul George, George Hill, Gordon Hayward, Tony Allen, Arron Afflalo

What do you guys think?

I'd note that Rose is not going to be an Olympic hopeful anymore. The torn ACL is likely to keep him out of action well into next NBA season.

As for your list, I'd say that Lee and Brook Lopez will be back in a month or two, so they may be ready in time for the Select team. If they are, they'll be there. I'd agree with Evans and Jefferson as well. Not sure about Mayo.

From the list of others, I'd say Anderson, Monroe, and Davis could join the frontcourt mix with Lee and Lopez. For the perimeter guys, Granger, Iguodala, and Gay make sense. So do Evans, Irving, and Lawson as PG. The question then is do we have enough shooters? If not, guys like Johnson, Hardin, or Hayward make sense on the wings.

Billy Dat
05-01-2012, 10:24 AM
So do Evans, Irving, and Lawson as PG.

Good catch, after lauding his play on my last note I left him off my list.

superdave
05-01-2012, 10:48 AM
Yes, Monroe would be a better option to represent Team USA, because he doesnt have the negative baggage. But Cousins is the better player. Hopefully both get invited to practice against the team and even challenge for a spot. I wouldnt bet against Cousins.
Cousins can be a 24-12 guy.

Cousins (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/couside01.html) vs. Monroe (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/monrogr01.html)

Points per 36 - 21.4 vs. 17.6
Rebounds per 36 - 13.0 vs. 11.0
Assists per 36 - 1.9 vs. 2.6
Blocks per 36 - 1.4 vs. 0.8
FG % - .448 vs. .521
Rebound rate - 19.8% vs. 18.3%
Usage Rate - 29.7% vs. 23.6%
Win Shares per game - .104 vs. .161
PER - 21.72 vs. 22.09

I would argue that Cousins dominates the ball too much for Team USA. We already have Lebron, KD, Kobe etc, we need a guy to play defense, hit the boards and set screens. I dont see Boogie being happy doing that. Zach Randolph either. Monroe fits much better into both the team concept and the Euro style game.

Additionally, if you look at the stats above, the usage rate shows how much more Cousins dominates the ball to get his points. He shoots a much lower % as well. I'd argue for Monroe because he's more efficient and does not need the ball in his hands to be effective.

BD80
05-01-2012, 10:53 AM
Cousins (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/couside01.html) vs. Monroe (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/monrogr01.html)

Points per 36 - 21.4 vs. 17.6
Rebounds per 36 - 13.0 vs. 11.0
Assists per 36 - 1.9 vs. 2.6
Blocks per 36 - 1.4 vs. 0.8
FG % - .448 vs. .521
Rebound rate - 19.8% vs. 18.3%
Usage Rate - 29.7% vs. 23.6%
Win Shares per game - .104 vs. .161
PER - 21.72 vs. 22.09

I would argue that Cousins dominates the ball too much for Team USA. We already have Lebron, KD, Kobe etc, we need a guy to play defense, hit the boards and set screens. I dont see Boogie being happy doing that. Zach Randolph either. Monroe fits much better into both the team concept and the Euro style game.

Additionally, if you look at the stats above, the usage rate shows how much more Cousins dominates the ball to get his points. He shoots a much lower % as well. I'd argue for Monroe because he's more efficient and does not need the ball in his hands to be effective.

I think the size of the international lane would greatly impact Cousins' efficiency.

superdave
05-01-2012, 11:14 AM
Some of these guys just are not good enough and we wont see them get better - so I'd leave off older guys like Josh Smith, Thad Young, Taj, Tony Allen, Afflalo. Other guys dont really seem like a good fit for the team first concept, so I'd exclude Monta, Cousins, Jennings,.

I'd go with the following -

Bigs - Monroe, Hibbert, Davis, Favors, Anderson, Faried
Wings - Kawhi, Granger, Gay, Igoudala, Johnson
Guards - Harden, Wall, Irving

Some of these guys may get a shot at the Olympic team depending on injuries and additions in the coming months.

Bluedog
05-01-2012, 11:43 AM
I think the size of the international lane would greatly impact Cousins' efficiency.

I thought the international lane is now the same size as the NBA's...

2010:

[FIBA] abandon[ed] the trapezoid lane in favor of an NBA-sized rectangular lane
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/olybb/news/story?id=5549848

Or maybe it's now a rectangle, but a slightly different size?

Johnny Chill
05-01-2012, 12:22 PM
Some of these guys just are not good enough and we wont see them get better - so I'd leave off older guys like Josh Smith, Thad Young, Taj, Tony Allen, Afflalo. Other guys dont really seem like a good fit for the team first concept, so I'd exclude Monta, Cousins, Jennings,.

I'd go with the following -

Bigs - Monroe, Hibbert, Davis, Favors, Anderson, Faried
Wings - Kawhi, Granger, Gay, Igoudala, Johnson
Guards - Harden, Wall, Irving

Some of these guys may get a shot at the Olympic team depending on injuries and additions in the coming months.

I cant believe I forgot about Hibbert as a Center replacement. I would have him in over Cousins and Monroe. He is already an All-Star on a playoff team. The other 2 guys still learning how to win.

Gay is already among the list of players that are being considered.

Billy Dat
05-01-2012, 03:12 PM
Some of these guys just are not good enough and we wont see them get better - so I'd leave off older guys like Josh Smith, Thad Young, Taj, Tony Allen, Afflalo.

Dang, Superdave, are you a fan of "Logan's Run? Most of the guys you name are only 27 years old! That's NBA prime. :p

I think all of the guys you mention have gotten better as they have gotten older, especially Smith who may be an All NBA 3rd teamer this year (there's a chance). Many of these guys are also lock-down defenders which is why I included them.

BD80
05-01-2012, 03:44 PM
Dang, Superdave, are you a fan of "Logan's Run? Most of the guys you name are only 27 years old! That's NBA prime. :p

I think all of the guys you mention have gotten better as they have gotten older, especially Smith who may be an All NBA 3rd teamer this year (there's a chance). Many of these guys are also lock-down defenders which is why I included them.

The team will be eating soylent green during training: just don't ask what happened to Chauncey Billups.

superdave
05-01-2012, 04:02 PM
Dang, Superdave, are you a fan of "Logan's Run? Most of the guys you name are only 27 years old! That's NBA prime. :p

I think all of the guys you mention have gotten better as they have gotten older, especially Smith who may be an All NBA 3rd teamer this year (there's a chance). Many of these guys are also lock-down defenders which is why I included them.

These guys I'd bounce are good, but they should be trying out for the Olympic roster not the Select (meaning junior) roster. I'd rather than let the young'uns who are 18-25 try out for the Select roster now and give them a chance for Team USA in 2014 and 2016.

To put it bluntly, Josh Smith is no Griffin/Aldridge/Melo/Howard. He's a really good player, but if he's not been competing with his peers the last 4-6 years for a spot on Team USA, I'd move on. The rest of those guys are the same - good players, but fully baked at this point in their careers.

unexpected
05-01-2012, 04:34 PM
I might have missed it in a previous post, but I think Andrew Bynum (especially with his recent play) will get strong consideration as well.

Bluedog
05-01-2012, 04:52 PM
I might have missed it in a previous post, but I think Andrew Bynum (especially with his recent play) will get strong consideration as well.

Bynum has pulled himself out of consideration. Says he needs to rehab his knee and is planning on some procedure over the summer as well as rest.
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/apr/20/sports/la-sp-lakers-fyi-20120421

Brian913
05-01-2012, 08:06 PM
Considering that Jerry Colangelo said that the 2012 Select Team will be formed with an eye toward it competing in the 2014 World Championships, and because the injury bug keeps hitting the 2012 Olympic team, and because the top alternates for the Olympic Team will likely come from the Select Team, I think we should waste some time trying to figure out who will be on the Select Team.

The first place to look for potential Select Team members are guys who played in the 2010 Worlds but aren’t expected to make the 2012 Olympic Team. We’ll forget Lamar Odom (personal issues) and Chauncey Billups (age). For this summer, because of injuries, we also have to ignore Steph Curry and Eric Gordon. If we assume Derrick Rose, Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, Kevin Love and Tyson Chandler are all Olympic hopefuls, that leaves; Rudy Gay, Andre Iguodala and Danny Granger.

The next place to looks is anyone we haven’t yet mentioned who was part of the officially announced 2010-2012 Senior National Team Pool of players. That group included the following players that we haven’t mentioned as part of the Olympic Team or 2010 Worlds Team; Carlos Boozer, Tyreke Evans, Jeff Green, Al Jefferson, David Lee, Brook Lopez, Robin Lopez, OJ Mayo, Kendrick Perkins, Tayshaun Prince, Rajon Rondo, Amar’e Stoudemire, Gerald Wallace. Based on recent play, injury issues or past Team USA bad experience, I think the only players with a shot at the Select Team out of this group are Evans, Jefferson and Mayo.

So who remains? Here’s my list of potentials aside from those bolded above:

Centers:
Greg Monroe, Roy Hibbert, Spencer Hawes, Anthony Davis

Forwards:
Paul Milsap, Demarcus Cousins, Kenneth Faried, Ryan Andersen, Josh Smith, Derrick Favors, Thad Young, Taj Gibson, Brandan Wright, Kawhi Leonard, Steve Novak

Guards:
Kyrie Irving, Lou Williams, Jeremy Lin, John Wall, Mike Conley, Brandon Jennings, Kyle Lowry, James Harden, Joe Johnson (give him another shot), Monta Ellis, Paul George, George Hill, Gordon Hayward, Tony Allen, Arron Afflalo

What do you guys think?


There aren't any "alternates" for the Olympic roster.

Gay and Iguodala are already on the Olympic roster.

Evans has said he won't be participating in any way this year.

Greg_Newton
05-01-2012, 10:46 PM
I think Harden would be a great fit for the national team; hope he ends up on the Select squad. He's pretty much the perfect complementary player.

superdave
05-02-2012, 07:59 AM
I think Harden would be a great fit for the national team; hope he ends up on the Select squad. He's pretty much the perfect complementary player.

Yeah, if Kobe or Wade cannot go this summer, I'd love Harden to go to London. That guys is a wrecking ball. He goes hard every game and does a lot of the dirty work a team needs.

Billy Dat
05-02-2012, 08:23 AM
There aren't any "alternates" for the Olympic roster.

Gay and Iguodala are already on the Olympic roster.

Evans has said he won't be participating in any way this year.

RE: alternates
"The final 12-man roster and six alternates must be submitted June 18, before the NBA Finals will be complete. But all 18 names have to be given to the U.S. Olympic Committee by the end of January to be placed in the drug program."
http://espn.go.com/olympics/basketball/story/_/id/7434133/usa-basketball-announce-18-roster-candidates-january-18

RE: Gay and Iguodala
Based on all the discussion on this thread, many of us feel that Gay and Iguodala won't make the Final 12 man, 6 alternate roster. That would make them potential Select Team players. So, while they are part of the pool being considered, they are not on the Olympic roster because that list won't be made public until late June.

RE: Evans
I didn't know that, thanks for setting me straight.

BD80
05-02-2012, 01:07 PM
Davis selected for one of five openings. Cousins on select squad, Monroe and Jefferson being considered for London. So is Lamar Odom?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/sam_amick/05/02/davis.team.usa/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a2&eref=sihp

superdave
05-02-2012, 02:05 PM
Davis selected for one of five openings. Cousins on select squad, Monroe and Jefferson being considered for London. So is Lamar Odom?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/sam_amick/05/02/davis.team.usa/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a2&eref=sihp

I am surprised Lamar Odom is still under consideration. I'm also surprised Eric Gordon is still on the list after only playing 9 games this season.

Anthony Davis would probably be a much better Select Team guy this year. I do not think he's ready. I dont think we should have a "college" spot on Team USA either.

Greg Monroe and Al Jefferson would both be good choices to try out. I think Monroe can do more things without the ball in his hands.

It would not be a shock to see another injury or two as the playoffs move along.

SilkyJ
05-02-2012, 04:24 PM
Davis selected for one of five openings. Cousins on select squad, Monroe and Jefferson being considered for London. So is Lamar Odom?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/sam_amick/05/02/davis.team.usa/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a2&eref=sihp

Thanks, BD. Can someone help me out here: right now what's the point of announcing who's a "finalist" vs who's on the select team when there won't even be a tryout. Why is there only "one more spot" open for a verbal list. Its not like these guys are going to be trying out right? Or am I missing something? I guess what I'm saying is, why not just add ALL of Monroe, Jefferson, Cousins, and Davis to the "finalist" list for now since they're going to pare the list down without a tryout anyway?

Brian913
05-02-2012, 06:58 PM
RE: alternates
"The final 12-man roster and six alternates must be submitted June 18, before the NBA Finals will be complete. But all 18 names have to be given to the U.S. Olympic Committee by the end of January to be placed in the drug program."
http://espn.go.com/olympics/basketball/story/_/id/7434133/usa-basketball-announce-18-roster-candidates-january-18

RE: Gay and Iguodala
Based on all the discussion on this thread, many of us feel that Gay and Iguodala won't make the Final 12 man, 6 alternate roster. That would make them potential Select Team players. So, while they are part of the pool being considered, they are not on the Olympic roster because that list won't be made public until late June.

RE: Evans
I didn't know that, thanks for setting me straight.

I was wrong about the alternates - but Gay and Igoudala are in the Olympic roster from which the selection will be made. They both performed very well in the 2010 World Championship and I think it's unlikely they don't make the final cut.

Billy Dat
05-02-2012, 10:33 PM
I was wrong about the alternates - but Gay and Igoudala are in the Olympic roster from which the selection will be made. They both performed very well in the 2010 World Championship and I think it's unlikely they don't make the final cut.

OK, assuming we take 3 bigs (Chandler, Love, Bosh), which of the following 9 are you leaving home?

Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, Chris Paul, Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, Russell Westbrook, Deron Williams, Blake Griffin

My point is simply that I don't think Gay and Iggy are givens. In fact, I think there is no way both make it unless injuries further decimate the field, and I think it's long odds that either of them make it.

Johnny Chill
05-03-2012, 12:31 AM
OK, assuming we take 3 bigs (Chandler, Love, Bosh), which of the following 9 are you leaving home?

Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, Chris Paul, Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, Russell Westbrook, Deron Williams, Blake Griffin

My point is simply that I don't think Gay and Iggy are givens. In fact, I think there is no way both make it unless injuries further decimate the field, and I think it's long odds that either of them make it.

That's very likely the Olympic team right there.