MBB: Duke 81, Georgia Tech 74 Post Game Thread

[Bob Green]

Discuss the game here.

[Jderf]

For the rest of the season, it is looking like my blood pressure is going to be about as consistent as our defense... but hey, we pulled out the win. I would not want to be at our next practice.

[rotogod00]

Sure wasn't pretty, but will take the W

[roywhite]

Well, my first reaction is relief. Whew.
Glen Rice, Jr. appears to have the early lead for the Bootsy Thornton "best performance by an opponent" award.

Ryan and Seth had a really nice second half.
It's good to see the clutch shooters come up big.

[94duke]

We needed them today for sure!

Most Free Throws Made (No Misses)

Rk Name vs. Opponent, Date FT
1. Dick Groat (Jr.) vs. Davidson, 1/29/1951 17
2. Gene Banks (Jr.) vs. N.C. State, 2/28/1980 14
J.J. Redick (Jr.) vs. Princeton, 1/5/2005 14
4. Bucky Allen (Sr.) at N.C. State, 2/11/1958 13
Mike Lewis (Jr.) at Vanderbilt, 12/13/1966 13
Steve Vandenberg (Sr.) vs. North Carolina, 3/1/1969 13
Christian Laettner (So.) vs. Maryland, 1/13/1990 13
Christian Laettner (Sr.) vs. St. John’s, 12/5/1991 13
Elton Brand (So.) vs. N.C. A&T, 12/20/1998 13
Jon Scheyer (Jr.) vs. Rhode Island, 11/16/2008 13
11. Jim Spanarkel (Jr.) vs. Davidson, 2/11/1978 12
Jim Spanarkel (Jr.) vs. Notre Dame, 3/25/1978 12
Mike Gminski (Sr.) vs. N.C. State, 2/28/1980 12
Christian Laettner (Jr.) vs. Kansas, 4/1/1991 12
Shane Battier (Jr.) vs. Davidson, 12/21/1999 12

http://www.goduke.com/fls/4200/web-docs/2011-12_Duke-MBB_Records--109-150.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=4200

[Jim3k]

Ryan Kelly is money at the line! Clutch shooting. Way to go, big fella!

[sporthenry]

For the rest of the season, it is looking like my blood pressure is going to be about as consistent as our defense... but hey, we pulled out the win. I would not want to be at our next practice.

At least we won't have that problem of peaking too early this year. Luckily, we have K so we should continue to grow but I think we are behind where we need to be probably because we have so many good players that we don't have a set rotation and our defense relies on communication which isn't there. Players like TT, Cook, G, Hairston, or now even Dre we don't have that many minutes but the difference in talent doesn't appear to be that big.

[licc85]

Man, what is going on with our defense?? Especially our rebounding . . . giving up WAY too many second chance opportunities. The free throw line rim was our best defender down the stretch. I really wonder . . . if we didn't foul every possession down the stretch, would we still have won the game? Seemed like they were getting whatever they wanted outside of free throw shooting.

[Chris Randolph]

I'm just glad that game is over. Clutch plays by Seth and Ryan. Sure wish Mason would get more looks but apparently our guards are blind and can't see the 6'11 guy working his butt off in the post calling for the ball.

Is there a way this year's team can skip playing UNC?

Time for me to go back to youtube, watch footage of the 2010 team to remind me of what hungry/willing/tough players play like.

[sporthenry]

Man, what is going on with our defense?? Especially our rebounding . . . giving up WAY too many second chance opportunities. The free throw line rim was our best defender down the stretch. I really wonder . . . if we didn't foul every possession down the stretch, would we still have won the game? Seemed like they were getting whatever they wanted outside of free throw shooting.

Come on now, Rice hit some ridiculous lay ups, one handed on the way down. And even the 3, he was coming off a screen and falling away granted it was in rhythm but still a tough shot.

[basket1544]

Much better from the line overall (especially liked seeing Mason hit 3 in a row). They also played with a higher intensity especially in the first half. Rice made some amazing shots but Austin at least was in his face for each of those shots. I can breathe a lot easier seeing them fight for loose balls and make free throws.

[roywhite]

I'm just glad that game is over. Clutch plays by Seth and Ryan. Sure wish Mason would get more looks but apparently our guards are blind and can't see the 6'11 guy working his butt off in the post calling for the ball.

Is there a way this year's team can skip playing UNC?

Time for me to go back to youtube, watch footage of the 2010 team to remind me of what hungry/willing/tough players play like.

Well, remember that 2010 team lost in Atlanta.

First conference game of the year, and on the road, can be a challenge no matter how it looks on paper going in.
Good to win, and keep working.

[SilkyJ]

Maybe its my inner Ozzie, but road ACC games are going to be tough, and I'm with the win considering we had a 6-22 shooting night from 3 and got killed -12 on the boards...not to mention them hitting a bunch of really, really tough shots and us getting what I thought were a lot of bad calls. To overcome all that means we're still a pretty good team, imo.

Also glad to see Quinn start. I've obviously been clamoring for that and I think he's earning it. He's got plenty of room for work, but I think the offense is much better with him on point.

[Edouble]

Wow-- 14 for 14 from the line?!?! That is crazy good. And on the road too. Does anyone have the statistical database handy to check for the last time a Blue Devil went 14-14 or better (15-15?)?

[td50]

I'm personally a little tired of hearing that our players aren't hungry or willing. Do you honestly believe that Coach K doesn't have these players giving it their all?

I think this is a very young team with problems on defense and with identity. And luckily for us, Coach K is very good at developing both.

[rotogod00]

Wow-- 14 for 14 from the line?!?! That is crazy good. And on the road too. Does anyone have the statistical database handy to check for the last time a Blue Devil went 14-14 or better (15-15?)?

guess you didn't read the thread

[Zeke]

Is it just me or did the announcers today and the announcers for the Temple game see to be rooting against Duke?

[FerryFor50]

Is it just me or did the announcers today and the announcers for the Temple game see to be rooting against Duke?

It's just you.

[MCFinARL]

I'm personally a little tired of hearing that our players aren't hungry or willing. Do you honestly believe that Coach K doesn't have these players giving it their all?

I think this is a very young team with problems on defense and with identity. And luckily for us, Coach K is very good at developing both.

Agreed the players all seem to be working hard--I don't get the suggestion that they are "too cool" to play tough. But they aren't always working smart--sometimes when they get beat to rebounds or loose balls it looks like it is because the other team has done a better job of anticipating where the ball will go and reacting when it does--or perhaps they aren't always quick enough.

The other thing, which has been discussed at length in other threads, is the leadership/communication piece (maybe some overlap here with identity). This team looks to me like it still has a long way to go to function consistently as a solid unit.

[burnspbesq]

@ Chris Randolph:

In fairness to the guards, Mason was getting pushed off the blocks most of the day, and given his lack of a mid-range game it doesn't make sense to throw it to him 10-12 feet our on the baseline.

[rotogod00]

Is it just me or did the announcers today and the announcers for the Temple game see to be rooting against Duke?

Announcers will generally "root" for the underdog and potential upsets to keep viewers watching

[roywhite]

Is it just me or did the announcers today and the announcers for the Temple game see to be rooting against Duke?

Brad Nessler came up doing Georgia Tech games, but, really, I think both he and Doris Burke are solid professionals.
The potential upset as a theme makes sense and that's where they went.

[MCFinARL]

Is it just me or did the announcers today and the announcers for the Temple game see to be rooting against Duke?

The announcers' job is to try to make the game they are calling seem as interesting as possible. This game was more interesting as a surprisingly close game and a potential upset. So the commentary tended to emphasize that theme. And, as a new coach, I think Brian Gregory got a lot of coverage here as well. But I don't think the announcers were rooting against Duke.

I see some other commenters beat me to it here.

[JNort]

I'm just glad that game is over. Clutch plays by Seth and Ryan. Sure wish Mason would get more looks but apparently our guards are blind and can't see the 6'11 guy working his butt off in the post calling for the ball.

Is there a way this year's team can skip playing UNC?

Time for me to go back to youtube, watch footage of the 2010 team to remind me of what hungry/willing/tough players play like.

Idk about everyone else but I have no problem playing UNC this year. I feel we matchup very very well with them.

[FerryFor50]

The good:

- Ryan Kelly's FT shooting (and the whole team, really)
- Seth Curry coming alive in the 2nd half
- sound ball handling and decision making by Quinn Cook
- Miles Plumlee's continued offensive development
- just 9 turnovers
- gutting out a win against a feisty, scrappy team

The bad:

- allowing a far inferior opponent to hang around after being up by 18 early
- sub-par defense
- not getting the bigs involved in the offense enough
- only 13 assists on 29 FGs - not terrible, but could be better

The ugly:

- teammates barking at each other and showing really poor body language
- getting outrebounded by 12 against a much smaller team
- poor shot selection by the guards

A win's a win, but there's still a lot of work to be done by this team.

[dukebluesincebirth]

I'll always take the win over the loss obviously, but wow that was frustrating to watch. I really expected a much better performance coming off of the Temple loss. If Austin's game is going to rely so much on driving into traffic, he's got to reduce turnovers and make free throws. We've got to get Mason the ball in the post consistently, and everyone has got to play harder on defense. I feel like this team has lost some confidence.

[Chris Randolph]

Well, remember that 2010 team lost in Atlanta.

First conference game of the year, and on the road, can be a challenge no matter how it looks on paper going in.
Good to win, and keep working.

Well, remember that GT team was much much better than this year's version. Were ranked #17 at the time and later played for the ACC Championship. This year's GT team can't beat Fordham and Mercer

I agree, good to win and keep getting better. If Coach K pulls off an ACC title with this team, he is better than all the credit he already gets

[Chris Randolph]

@ Chris Randolph:

In fairness to the guards, Mason was getting pushed off the blocks most of the day, and given his lack of a mid-range game it doesn't make sense to throw it to him 10-12 feet our on the baseline.

His initial post up is good and in a good position, but it seems the guards hold it and don't get it to him right away which leads to him being fronted or pushed up higher. Even then, his face up game from 12-15 ft (not jumper but his drive either hand, jump stop lay up/dunk or spin and jump hook) has been effective this year

[Chris Randolph]

Idk about everyone else but I have no problem playing UNC this year. I feel we matchup very very well with them.

I really want to be wrong on this and with another month of practice/games and improvements maybe we will match up better. But our bigs have not come close to stopping Henson/Zeller consistently in past matchups, Marshall will drive by our pressure D and idk who tries to guard Barnes. But that is for another thread down the road....

Back to the GT game, just looked at the box score and once again Quinn Cook with more assists than turnovers. 5 to 1. I really like the player he is becoming, hope he continues to improve his shooting and consistency. He could be that X factor late in the year when it comes time to win championships!

[Steven43]

Idk about everyone else but I have no problem playing UNC this year. I feel we matchup very very well with them.

You are just kidding, right?

[JNort]

Defense: Yes once again it was not that great but it looked imo much better. GT (Rice in particular) just hit some nice shots (lucky is what I should say), I don't remember who it was but Josh was covering them in the post and hid d was perfect but the guy hit the shot anyway, several 3's were contested or had at least avg d on them but they fell anyway. Overall I thought our d looked improved but still needing work particularly on switches.

Rebounding: This is what I thought was killing us and sadly I think the easiest of all our problems to fix! Mason, Miles and Ryan are doing just fine rebounding (Ryan could be better though) the problem I see is our guards are not boxing their men out and those are the guys doing the damage getting second chance points or causing them. It is a big enough job for our bigs to box out their own guys let alone having to contend with opposing wings flying in with running starts. Today our guards combined for 7 rebounds while GT guards combined for 20! It shouldn't be so hard for our guards to through a hip into their man after a shot.

Offense: Looked good with Cook at the point and about like I thought they would overall. Really could have used Rivers more this game but he seemed to struggle a bit.

[JNort]

You are just kidding, right?

No I am actually not :cool:. This is the GT post game thread so I do not want to hijack it to talk about UNC. Wait a few more weeks then the discussion will be on :D

[dukelifer]

Unlike the last game, Duke had moments where they took control of the game. Unfortunately, they are not able to keep the pressure on and they keep making bad mistakes at the wrong time. Key example- Duke up by 10 - need to play good D- make 2 dumb fouls- Tech ends up scoring 6 in a row and the game is close. Duke makes the stop and goes up 12 and perhaps Tech never gets back in it. Still Duke learned more about itself in the close win than if the game was a blowout. First, guys had to make plays at the end. Kelly was great from the line- Cook showed poise and Rivers had a good play after two bad ones. Even though Tech scored- they did so because Rice was unbelievable. But if one ACC team gets another within a bucket with three minutes to go at home- the game is going to come down to wire and which team makes plays. Duke hit their throws- Tech did not and that was the game. I am still very concerned about Duke's D. The lack of length in the back court coupled with lack of great speed at any position- really does not bode well for this season. There was one shot where we saw cook next to Rivers and I swear there was a 6 inch difference in height. Cook is playing very well- but he is a very small guy as is Seth. For Duke to win, they need to minimize mistakes and make free throws. They did part of that today and that was a big positive. Even Mason hit his free throws. Duke has a very tough game at home coming up- but it is at home and they have played well there this season. Will be a big test, regardless.

[gwlaw99]

What I found odd is that they called every little touch foul against someone guarding the man with the ball, but they did not make a call most of the time when our shooters were held trying to get open.

[JNort]

I really want to be wrong on this and with another month of practice/games and improvements maybe we will match up better. But our bigs have not come close to stopping Henson/Zeller consistently in past matchups, Marshall will drive by our pressure D and idk who tries to guard Barnes. But that is for another thread down the road....

Back to the GT game, just looked at the box score and once again Quinn Cook with more assists than turnovers. 5 to 1. I really like the player he is becoming, hope he continues to improve his shooting and consistency. He could be that X factor late in the year when it comes time to win championships!

They said a few times during the game that he led the country (Maybe they said just ACC, already forgetting) in Assist/Turnover ratio

[Chris Randolph]

They said a few times during the game that he led the country (Maybe they said just ACC, already forgetting) in Assist/Turnover ratio

Yes, I heard that as well. Leading the nation. Very impressive for a frosh, especially considering he got a late start with the knee injury!

[davekay1971]

A few thoughts:

1) We are in the processing of transitioning to Quinn Cook as our main point guard. Early in the season, due to injury, conditioning, and defensive issues that he readily admits to, he got very little PT. Transitioning to a new, freshman, PG midway through the season, particularly one who is still working on conditioning and just now seeing major minutes, is going to be a rocky process. I love Q's game, and he's going to be special. I suspect our offensive flow and efficiency will be much better in March than it is now.

2) We finally have a trio of really good bigs (granted that RK is more of a perimeter player on offense). I think we'd all like to see them used more efficiently and consistently. I have hope that, directly related to point number 1, we'll be seeing that happen as we move through the season.

3) Nearly blowing an 18 point lead on the road to an inferior, but highly motivated, opponent, is a sign of the youth/lack of leadership issues we've seen all season. What is encouraging is that, unlike our inability to step up and make plays down the stretch against Temple, we found ways to do it today. That, and RK's free throw shooting, of course...

4) The bottom of the ACC may suck, but a road win in conference is always a good thing.

To clarify point 1: I am not in any way accusing Q of being the cause of any lack of offensive flow or efficiency. Whenever you change the guy with the ball primarily in his hands, it takes time for the other four guys on the court to adjust to the inevitable changes in the rhythm and timing of the offense.

[Channing]

it seems at times our O just completely shuts down. We came out of the gates quick and then went on a nonslaught. This team doen't play good enough D to do that and win against even average teams.

This is a BAD GT team - not an average, not a mediocre, but a BAD team. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't seen them play this year (I have seen them on local broadcasts this year) and is just trying to make excuses for our poor play. They made a few tough shots, but they also had a lot of wide open looks, and drive and pull ups that were poorly defended. I was at the game, so I didn't get to see a replay, but the last play of the half TT got beat off the dribble and then Hairston just stepped out of the driver's way. The driver missed the layup but the offensive rebound was an easy bucket. That was very indicative of the whole game.

[buddy]

This is not a young team. Even though we have only one senior, we have a redshirt junior and three regular juniors in the rotation, along with two sophomores, and three freshmen. However, this is a new team, and an inexperienced team. There is no natural leader, no Scheyer, Singler, Smith or Irving. There may be some people who think they should be leaders, but no one has proven that yet. Our rotation, at nine players (not counting silent G, who may or may not get playing time) is a little longer than in recent years. We have changed the starting line up several times. Roles do not seem to be defined, which sometime leads to confusion on both ends of the court. I love Quinn at point, but putting him at this point seems to negate some of the value of the China experience. (That is neither a knock on Quinn, nor an opinion that he should not be at point, just observing that since he didn't play in China, putting him in now requires an offensive adjustment that the staff probably hoped wouldn't be necessary.) There are still two months to go before the NCAA Tournament, and the best coach in college basketball to get this team ready.

This team doesn't appear to be tough enough yet, although Ryan certainly made clutch shots today. Part of the lack of toughness is the lack of leadership. I don't know how this gets solved, but I think we need a little better chemistry to achieve our expected success. Now on to UVA, which will be a very difficult game.

[Edouble]

guess you didn't read the thread

Only 3 posts were up when I started typing mine, believe it or not. Timing overlap.

[Kfanarmy]

Come on now, Rice hit some ridiculous lay ups, one handed on the way down. And even the 3, he was coming off a screen and falling away granted it was in rhythm but still a tough shot. On the last two it appeared in real time and replay that his foot touched down before the ball was completely out of his hand....wish I had a recording I could look at closely, but especially the last one looked like a travel.

[td50]

it seems at times our O just completely shuts down. We came out of the gates quick and then went on a nonslaught. This team doen't play good enough D to do that and win against even average teams.

This is a BAD GT team - not an average, not a mediocre, but a BAD team. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't seen them play this year (I have seen them on local broadcasts this year) and is just trying to make excuses for our poor play. They made a few tough shots, but they also had a lot of wide open looks, and drive and pull ups that were poorly defended. I was at the game, so I didn't get to see a replay, but the last play of the half TT got beat off the dribble and then Hairston just stepped out of the driver's way. The driver missed the layup but the offensive rebound was an easy bucket. That was very indicative of the whole game.

Not enough people have mentioned our offensive troubles. Our defense has been bad, but it was our offense that was getting us by tough opponents earlier in the year. But Rivers seems to disappear for entire halves, Dawkins can't buy a basket, and Curry has been inconsistent at best. And while Mason hasn't been playing badly, he doesn't seem to be getting the ball as much as he was earlier in the year.

[Chris Randolph]

I'm personally a little tired of hearing that our players aren't hungry or willing. Do you honestly believe that Coach K doesn't have these players giving it their all?

I think this is a very young team with problems on defense and with identity. And luckily for us, Coach K is very good at developing both.

In my opinion, a team that has more talent and is tough, hungry and has a will to win doesn't let a team like Temple or GT outwork them on the boards or to loose balls. Teams that possess a strong willingness to win do all the little mental and physical things to win and sacrifice there own good for the team. I do think we have guys who do those things but not some of the key cogs.

And my thought on "too cool" is more of a societal thing in basketball today, not so much how you play the game but how you carry yourself. In today's game being rugged, a team player, fundamentally good is not that cool. Being smooth, hip, fancy and self promotion is cool. I don't see our guys promoting themselves but I don't see much ruggedness, toughness (voiced by many fans and coaches). This team needs more bruises, cuts, black eyes!!!!

[Duke76]

had good seat down low so could see the intensity and I'll have to say the
perspective is so different than when you are watching on tv....the guys i thought played really hard,,,it
was a fast paced game or seemed so in person. Quinn needs to be the point guard based on what I saw and I believe he
played the most. The difference is he can penetrate the lane, meaning he can get by his man which
Tyler and Curry have a big problem doing. Tech had a couple of big guys that took up space and played
pretty well defensively so our bigs didn't get many touches as I would have liked but it seemed when they
did they made strong moves.

Our biggest weakness is our lateral quickness which has been discussed but evident in person as much as
on tv...our guards just don't seem to be able move their feet enough to keep opponents guards from getting
past them...just gotta keep working on it.....but I thought the guys actually played pretty and very hard..
Tech was better than I expected....just amazing how even weak teams can rise to the occasion and play
out of their body and minds against us.

i was down after the Temple game and even though this one was close I was proud of the boys and their attitudes...
thought the chemistry was good and even when Rivers and Plumlee fought over the rebound they
slapped hands a minute later over it....

[ncexnyc]

In my opinion, a team that has more talent and is tough, hungry and has a will to win doesn't let a team like Temple or GT outwork them on the boards or to loose balls. Teams that possess a strong willingness to win do all the little mental and physical things to win and sacrifice there own good for the team. I do think we have guys who do those things but not some of the key cogs.

And my thought on "too cool" is more of a societal thing in basketball today, not so much how you play the game but how you carry yourself. In today's game being rugged, a team player, fundamentally good is not that cool. Being smooth, hip, fancy and self promotion is cool. I don't see our guys promoting themselves but I don't see much ruggedness, toughness (voiced by many fans and coaches). This team needs more bruises, cuts, black eyes!!!!
I think the rebounding numbers suggest we're getting plenty of bruises, cuts, and black eyes. I think you meant to say, "We should be inflicting more bruises, cuts, and black eyes.":)

[Kfanarmy]

In my opinion, a team that has more talent and is tough, hungry and has a will to win doesn't let a team like Temple or GT outwork them on the boards or to loose balls. Teams that possess a strong willingness to win do all the little mental and physical things to win and sacrifice there own good for the team. I do think we have guys who do those things but not some of the key cogs.

And my thought on "too cool" is more of a societal thing in basketball today, not so much how you play the game but how you carry yourself. In today's game being rugged, a team player, fundamentally good is not that cool. Being smooth, hip, fancy and self promotion is cool. I don't see our guys promoting themselves but I don't see much ruggedness, toughness (voiced by many fans and coaches). This team needs more bruises, cuts, black eyes!!!! While I do think there is some hussle missing, diving on the floord for loose balls--refusing to give up on a rebound; I don't want to see a team lose site of the rules while they bump and bully their way to wins.

[Devilsfan]

Again, no wiser words were ever spoken in sports than, "it's not the SIZE of the dog in the fight, it's the SIZE of the FIGHT in the dog". This may be especially true when our current three front court guys have left.

[arnie]

had good seat down low so could see the intensity and I'll have to say the
perspective is so different than when you are watching on tv....the guys i thought played really hard,,,it
was a fast paced game or seemed so in person. Quinn needs to be the point guard based on what I saw and I believe he
played the most. The difference is he can penetrate the lane, meaning he can get by his man which
Tyler and Curry have a big problem doing. Tech had a couple of big guys that took up space and played
pretty well defensively so our bigs didn't get many touches as I would have liked but it seemed when they
did they made strong moves.

Our biggest weakness is our lateral quickness which has been discussed but evident in person as much as
on tv...our guards just don't seem to be able move their feet enough to keep opponents guards from getting
past them...just gotta keep working on it.....but I thought the guys actually played pretty and very hard..
Tech was better than I expected....just amazing how even weak teams can rise to the occasion and play
out of their body and minds against us.

i was down after the Temple game and even though this one was close I was proud of the boys and their attitudes...
thought the chemistry was good and even when Rivers and Plumlee fought over the rebound they
slapped hands a minute later over it....


I also don't think it an intensity problem - I think its a simple as our guards just aren't good defenders. Lack of size and quickness does that to you. This team's gonna have to win games on offense. I will also second what everyone else is posting - Cook will be a difference maker.

[Saratoga2]

I wasn't able to watch the game on TV so had to revert to Game Tracker. It is hard to draw any conclusions about defense from that but just watching the play by play brought up some questions that you who watched could probably answer.

1. Did GT go into a zone of some sort part way into the game? The reason I ask is that we seemed to go to a large number of 3 point shots as the game wore on. Obviously, we were not hitting many of those.

2. Was this first ACC game rougher than our previous games? Trying to explain the lack of rebounding and also the number of turnovers by Austin and also Seth.

3. I was surprised when Mason was left in to play for a long stretch with 4 fouls. Was his presence that important, especially since his typical free throw shooting has been so weak in the past.

4. Was Andre's defense good enough to warrant him being in the game after having such a cold shooting night? I was expecting a substitution by Michael and that never occurred. His length and quickness seems like a natural fit when the person he substitutes for was not having such a good game.

5. I would have thought Quinn would have gotten in for the final couple of minutes. His ball handling skill and free throw shooting is good. Just seemed like a natural place for him to be put in. What K did worked well since Ryan got foulded and sealed the deal.

I would appreciate your thoughts about these 5 questions.

[mkirsh]

It will be interesting to see how this team continues to develop across the course of the season. It has a lot of physical attributes to be successful - quality bigs who can score or pass from the block, rebound, and protect the rim; guards who can shoot the lights out; at least one elite level penetrator to break down the defense. What seems to be missing is a mid range game (which frankly almost everyone in college hoops is lacking), someone who can move the ball with the pass, (most of our offense is dribbling and dribble handoffs (Cooks is our best passer, but even he pounds the rock into the floor)), and perimeter defense. Feels like we have enough strengths to be a legit FF contender, and I have confidence the coaching staff can find ways to tactically minimize our weaknesses.

The mental side of the game seems to be very up and down for this team however. Not sure what you want to call it - intensity, desire, motivation, killer instinct, swagger, confidence, fire in the belly, etc - but this team seems to have spurts where they build a big lead and let their foot off the gas, or expect the other team to just roll over because we are Duke. Not sure if it is leadership, chemistry, or just the personality of this team, but would love to see the team that is aggressive for 40 minutes, the team that wants to make a 15 point lead a 25 point lead, a 25 point lead a 35 point lead, etc. Ultimately I think this, not the X's and O's, will determine how far this team goes in march. Hope they figure it out soon.

[Greg_Newton]

I alluded to this in the Phase thread, but two issues prevented us from blowing out a terrible GT team today: size and quickness on the perimeter. Consider:

1. Udofia (PG) and Rice (SF) combined to score 47 points on 61% shooting, with 12 rebounds.

2. We were outrebounded 35-23. The difference? A staggering 22-7 rebounding advantage from the PG, SG, and SF spots in favor of GT.

If you watch the game, Udofia got by Cook numerous times, and simply shot over him numerous other times. Rice (a big, freakishly long 6-5) scored most of his 28 almost exclusively by shooting over the top of Rivers and Dawkins.

At some point, who cares about assists and offensive efficiency? If we're going to make those kinds of sacrifices on defense and the boards by playing an undersized, slower-footed perimeter, we need to have them absolutely dominate on the offensive end for it even out. And that's asking a LOT.

How would the two above points look the matchups had been Rivers-Udofia and Gbinije-Rice all game?

[Newton_14]

I wasn't able to watch the game on TV so had to revert to Game Tracker. It is hard to draw any conclusions about defense from that but just watching the play by play brought up some questions that you who watched could probably answer.

1. Did GT go into a zone of some sort part way into the game? The reason I ask is that we seemed to go to a large number of 3 point shots as the game wore on. Obviously, we were not hitting many of those.

2. Was this first ACC game rougher than our previous games? Trying to explain the lack of rebounding and also the number of turnovers by Austin and also Seth.

3. I was surprised when Mason was left in to play for a long stretch with 4 fouls. Was his presence that important, especially since his typical free throw shooting has been so weak in the past.

4. Was Andre's defense good enough to warrant him being in the game after having such a cold shooting night? I was expecting a substitution by Michael and that never occurred. His length and quickness seems like a natural fit when the person he substitutes for was not having such a good game.

5. I would have thought Quinn would have gotten in for the final couple of minutes. His ball handling skill and free throw shooting is good. Just seemed like a natural place for him to be put in. What K did worked well since Ryan got foulded and sealed the deal.

I would appreciate your thoughts about these 5 questions.

1. Tech never went zone. The 3's we took were good looks that just did not fall. Road game blues I suppose
2. The rebound advantage was more about Tech being quicker to the ball, and spreading us out. Plus their guards out-rebounding our guards.
3. Never trust game-tracker. Miles sat out the last several minutes with 4 fouls, but Mason never had 4 fouls. Mason finished with 3 fouls and played well down the stretch
4. SilentG was a DNP. I feel this is K attempting to shorten the rotation while also trying to get Andre going. Andre's defense was solid. Not great but not terrible either. He had a couple of good drives as well drawing fouls
5. Quinn played well on offense, but struggled at times on defense. Still a work in progress. He had just played a 4/5 minute stretch when Tyler came in to close it out. That was likely for defense and experience in a conference road game.

Hope this helps

[lotusland]

Well I missed the game and just pulled up ESPN3 to watch the replay only to find it's not available which is a bummer even though it doesn't sound like it was a great effort by the good guys today.

Just curious - how did Miles play today after his good showing against Temple?

[Duvall]

Just curious - how did Miles play today after his good showing against Temple?

Strong start was derailed by foul trouble.

[roywhite]

We thought our difficulties in guarding a good SF would show up perhaps aginst Harrison Barnes and UNC. Turns out we saw that today with Glen Rice, Jr., who I have to admit seemed to be channeling Carmelo Anthony on some of his offensive moves. Austin Rivers frequently played good postional defense against him, but just didn't quite have the size or reach to stop him.

I wasn't surprised that Coach K didn't use Silent G today; first conference game on the road is usually where he strongly favors using the veterans. I do think if we can work Silent G in for some minutes, it could help our defense.

I see some references to Georgia Tech being a bad team; I really haven't seen them play much, and I'm aware of their record, but they were not a bad team today.

[Newton_14]

First, Congrats to Quinn for getting his first career start! Thought that overall he did a good job out there, with it being a conference road game, and coming off a bad loss. He is still very much a work in progress, especially on defense, but a solid start.

2nd, I found it strange watching a "well-coached Ga Tech team". It has been a long while since we saw that. He had his guys well prepared. I know some were surprised by the 11.5 point spread, and more surprised the game went to the wire, but things do not happen in a vacuum. You have to factor in that conference opponents know you and play you better, and conference road wins are hard to come by even with the difference in overall talent. While Ga Tech may have played mediocre so far this year in non-conference games, they do have talent, and they did not play mediocre today. They stepped up their games, and the two vets (Rice and Udofia) played outstanding games. Both guys if you will recall, torched the Heels last year in the 20 point beatdown they put on those guys. I thought Tech played good, smart basketball, and made shots.

Coach K said something interesting in the post game. He spoke on our guys not being mature (he emphasized he does not mean that negatively). He said what he means is, a mature player like a Nolan, Scheyer, or Singler, does not let missing a shot on offense impact their defense on the ensuing possession. They forget the miss, do not dwell on it, and focus on getting a stop. With this team, he said the guys have not learned that. They let the miss impact their defense, and end up not concentrating just enough to allow Tech for example to get a good shot. He then spoke about how Tech took advantage. They made a few, then started seeing a big basket due to the confidence gained which leads to making shots even when you are heavily contested. K felt that is exactly what happened out there today, but he was very proud of the guys, their efforts, and the toughness they showed to overcome it and get the win. He was very pleased.

That makes sense. We went cold for a stretch in both halves and then struggled to get stops. I thought the defense and rotations was much better today than the Temple game, but there were still a few lapses, and Tech shot the ball really well.

I was hoping for a beat down, but actually with this team, it may serve them better that it went to the wire. They made enough plays down the stretch to get the win. One other thing K harped on was the great play Mason made on the semi-bad alley oop pass from Seth. He said he felt Mason made an incredibly great play there to have the presence of mind to make the catch off the glass and still finish. He felt that play was a turning point that helped lead to the win.

[Devilsfan]

I think we lack the larger, quick wing we've almost always had in the past. We truly miss a Kyle Singler more than anyone else on last years team even though Nolan was terrific.

[HateCarolina]

Is it just me or did the announcers today and the announcers for the Temple game see to be rooting against Duke?

I believe Doris Burke actually has a little Brian Gregory crush. I do agree with the other comments though that they were not necessarily rooting against us, but they were certainly rooting for GT. Remember each time Morris dunked it was a "game changer". Never really seemed to be when you look at the scoring flow, but Doris and Nessler were quick to say it was.

Glad we got the W and now I'm ready for them to get out of here and back to Durham for the Hoos on Thursday.

[Greg_Newton]

I see some references to Georgia Tech being a bad team; I really haven't seen them play much, and I'm aware of their record, but they were not a bad team today.

Perhaps. Although we didn't do much to contribute to their futility after a fast start. They were coming off of a 3-game losing streak to Mercer, Fordham and Alabama (the latter being 73-48 whupping). That's a low-mid-major caliber couple of weeks.

[MartyClark]

It seems odd to say this for a 13-2 team but this team looks a little lost. At least in recent games, this is a pretty somber bunch of guys. They don't seem relaxed or confident. They certainly don't seem to be having much fun. Under any circumstance, I don't think this team is capable of greatness but I'm puzzled by the apparent lack of cohesion.

[roywhite]

Official Boxscore (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205357375)

Some of this has been mentioned already:

Ga. Tech out-rebounded Duke 38 to 26
Tech had 15 second-chance points to our 6
Rice and Udofia shot very well
Quinn Cook continued his impressive turnover/assist ratio with 5 assists and 1 turnover
Ryan was 14-14 from the line, and we needed it.

[cspan37421]

Went to the game. Terrible 200-level seats via DAA (row H, 2nd to last in Mezzanine - don't ever sit there, the overhang blocks the scoreboard view!). Made friends with an usher who kindly let us move down to help fill the corner in the 100 levels.

Many thoughts, starting with bad defense, bad rebounding. But from the top:

Mason got 2 quick fouls and sat much of the first half. I think one was a ridiculous touch foul, but we can't really afford for that to happen, and it seems to happen too frequently. Miles later passed him up joining the fun on the bench. Our bigs - incl. Kelly - need to box out more. A couple times GT came through with an OR that should never have been there if we weren't flat-footed.

Hairston didn't have much PT but someone earlier was correct in pointing out that a GT guy hit a jumper over him despite perfect defense. He had a hand in his face and was really close. However, a number of GT guys hit shots over our guards with much less than perfect D. I think at some point we have to stop using as a crutch "every team brings their best effort against Duke" and realize that our defense is just not up to usual Duke standards. Perhaps it is height, but I think we're a step slow ... almost two.

Kelly was spectacular ... from the line. He took all of 2 three-pointers - I know he missed one, I don't even remember the other. He's getting rather few shots lately. On defense, he got blown by a lot. Perhaps it was a mismatch - some quick guard or SF, but they played replay after replay of him doing a matador impersonation.

Austin - I have to tread carefully on this board ... I think critical words are seen as threatening our chances to get the Next Stud One-And-Done Player. To me, he's a can't-live-with-him, can't-live-without-him guy. Today it seemed more the former. Sure, he made a couple great plays ... but he also made some ones (on D of course) that got him yanked. He missed 2 FT late (didn't that happen vs. Temple too?) and forgot about his man a couple of times (K's presser comments may allude to that inability to put a mistake behind you and immediately focus on getting a stop). Body language - oy. The effect of his great plays is mitigated by his propensity to turn the ball over and not be as attentive as he should be on defense. But on offense, few rival his intensity, and he did collect a couple spectacular defensive rebounds, leaping way, way up to get them

Quinn handled the point quite well, though on defense he's not getting steals or anything. I also didn't care for his woofing later in the 2nd when the lead was slipping away and he helped get us back to 7 from 5. (BTW, it was directed in the face of a GT player, up close, not just a scream of "yeah" to himself or the Duke bench). Some here will say "I like that intensity" but I would aver that you would be all over him for it if he played for another team.

Seems to me we have a lot of individual talent but no chemistry. And even then, no small amount of our individual talent is quite streaky. Seth and Andre have not been shooting that great lately, particularly Andre. But even with Seth shooting better, he needs to improve his ballhandling and cut down on the turnovers. The same could be said for Austin - and that's 3/5 of our backcourt. (Interesting that K doesn't have it down to a 7 man rotation yet).

Much room for improvement on this team. If we don't do it soon, we'll have the luxury of playing with diminished expectations.

[Chris Randolph]

Good post cspan, very good observations.

Austin Rivers gives me a headache. Aside from his individualism; his turnovers, lack of defense, forced shots drive me crazy. But I understand he has great ability so you have to live with some of his mistakes, I guess. For all the talk of him being an "elite penetrator/finisher" he sure seems to turn the ball over/force shots/miss shots as a penetrator therefore making him not so elite. I understand his shake and crossover look good but lately he isn't just blowing by his man as easy as some people think he can. And in the process the above mentioned mistakes/misplays are happening more

[-jk]

On the last two it appeared in real time and replay that his foot touched down before the ball was completely out of his hand....wish I had a recording I could look at closely, but especially the last one looked like a travel.

I think it's in our best interest to not ask the refs to look too closely for traveling calls this year.

-jk

[cspan37421]

Austin Rivers gives me a headache. Aside from his individualism; his turnovers, lack of defense, forced shots drive me crazy. But I understand he has great ability so you have to live with some of his mistakes, I guess. For all the talk of him being an "elite penetrator/finisher" he sure seems to turn the ball over/force shots/miss shots as a penetrator therefore making him not so elite. I understand his shake and crossover look good but lately he isn't just blowing by his man as easy as some people think he can. And in the process the above mentioned mistakes/misplays are happening more

I have great hopes for him (it's more in the hope stage now than expectation stage) but I think he could truly benefit from the coaching Duke has to offer. And obviously so could our team.

One thing I've noticed lately is that the crossover/drive/finish of the early part of the season has largely turned into crossover/drive/block+foul or crossover/drive/turnover. He's not getting the bucket in the end at nearly the pace he did earlier. And with a non-deadly FT%, it's probably not a bad strategy for opponents to really go after him (even more so for Mason - I'm waiting for the hack-a-Shaq to kick in on him - but boy if he didn't bounce in a couple today! Better arc on one of them, too - and FWIW my son noticed his FT shot had tons of backspin).

I am all for his intensity and drive to win. We've had that before in guys like Laettner, Battier, JWill, etc. But they also were leaders on the team in terms of communication - something K really values. Talking to your teammates about what you're seeing, encouraging them, etc. Granted, we don't need 5 vocal leaders on the floor at the same time. But right now we need someone, and I think it would be great if it could be him. I realize that may not be his personality, but if earlier posts regarding in-game friction between him and Mason are true, I think it would serve him well to not appear to be aloof to the other 4 on the floor.

[Kfanarmy]

I think it's in our best interest to not ask the refs to look too closely for traveling calls this year.

-jk why?

[FerryFor50]

why?

Because Duke guards travel a lot this season?

[Greg_Newton]

^Watch Rivers catch, turn and go in slow-mo. It's actually quite amusing. :p

[Kfanarmy]

Because Duke guards travel a lot this season? sorry have only seen three games...but havn't seen that much travelling

[devildeac]

why?


Because Duke guards travel a lot this season?

Mason and Miles have been a bit prone to have "happy feet," too. Mind you, not quite to the hanstravel level of perfection but the Plumlee shuffle has been noted in chat and by the refs on a few occasions this year.

[FerryFor50]

sorry have only seen three games...but havn't seen that much travelling

I've seen a few uncalled on Seth and Austin... but hey, I'll take it!

[dukeballboy88]

All teams give Duke their best shot. I was all over Dayton +7 today at Temple in wich Dayton won 87-77. Thats going to help out because Santa took my last check.

ACC road games, survive, go home and get ready for the next one.

[Scorp4me]

This is the second game in a row where the opposing team made almost every ridiculous shot they could. I mean really, go back and look at some of those shots. Circus shots, shots with hands in their faces...it got us against Temple, this time we had just enough. Sometimes you have those games, but dang it sucks.

With the line up changes I saw a lot of the same...with all the clamoring for "changes" I expected better. Although it appears I'm in the minority.

[Duvall]

Austin Rivers gives me a headache.

I wonder how long the Spoiled By Kyrie Effect is going to last. Will Duke fans have unrealistic expectations for highly-rated freshmen for just a few years, or for the foreseeable future?

[Jderf]

I wonder how long the Spoiled By Kyrie Effect is going to last. Will Duke fans have unrealistic expectations for highly-rated freshmen for just a few years, or for the foreseeable future?

I know right? It utterly amazes me that Austin has faced so much criticism from our fanbase when, by all accounts, he is having an absolutely historic freshman season. By Duke standards, that is. And I've heard that those are some pretty good standards.

[gam7]

One thing I noticed that falls under the chemistry category was that the entire bench, including redshirts, stood up and greeted players who were subbed out. Definitely coach-mandated. Looked like something you'd see at the high school level. I liked it. That is all.

[ACCBBallFan]

Here are the lineup combos by minutes played. The starting lineup was the most effective but only played together as a combo at start of each half.

Swap in Ryan for Miles and it goes from +8 to -5, but of course Ryan's FT's sealed the win.

The only other combination outside the -3 to +3 range was a -4 by Seth-Austin-Dre-Mason-Ryan

Those critical of Ausitn need to note that his +/- was +11 second only to Miles +12. Since I started tracking +/- in the Davidson game Austin is +131 with Tyler next best at +106 and Ryan third 92. Miles is fourth at 72.

Technically Austin had the best numbers overall, but I voted for Ryan as player of game due to his clutch FTs

Duke GA T +/- Metrics Total Duke MIN

65 (54) 11 41 52 Austin Rivers, G 29
50 (50) 00 50 50 Ryan Kelly, F 27

57 (57) 00 49 49 Mason Plumlee, F 29
51 (45) 06 39 45 Quinn Cook, G 27
59 (62) (3) 44 41 Seth Curry, G 29

41 (29) 12 23 35 Miles Plumlee, F 17

44 (42) 02 26 28 Andre Dawkins, G 21
27 (21) 06 16 22 Tyler Thornton, G 13

11 (10) 01 09 10 Josh Hairston, F 8


The column labeled Metrics is the sum of all positive stats like points, rebounds etc. minus turnovers minus fouls.

Min Duke Opp. +/-

6.4 14 6 8 Seth-Austin-Mason-Miles-Quinn *2

4.8 6 11 (5) Seth-Austin-Mason-Ryan-Quinn *3

3.9 9 9 0 Seth-Dre-Mason-Ryan-Quinn *2
3.7 7 9 (2) Seth-Dre-Ryan-Miles-Quinn *2

2.8 8 6 2 Seth-Austin-Mason-Ryan-Tyler *2
2.8 7 4 3 Austin-Dre-Mason-Ryan-Tyler
2.3 3 5 (2) Seth-Austin-Mason-Tyler-Josh

1.8 4 3 1 Austin-Dre-Mason-Quinn-Josh
1.7 4 4 0 Seth-Austin-Ryan-Miles-Quinn
1.7 4 2 2 Austin-Dre-Ryan-Tyler-Josh

1.6 0 4 (4) Seth-Austin-Dre-Mason-Ryan

1.5 2 0 2 Austin-Dre-Ryan-Miles-Quinn
1.1 2 0 2 Austin-Dre-Ryan-Miles-Tyler
1.0 3 4 (1) Seth-Austin-Dre-Mason-Miles
1.0 3 3 0 Austin-Dre-Mason-Ryan-Quinn

0.9 0 2 (2) Seth-Dre-Mason-Miles-Tyler
0.8 0 0 0 Seth-Ryan-Tyler-Quinn-Josh
0.3 2 0 2 Seth-Ryan-Miles-Tyler- Quinn
0.2 3 2 1 Seth-Austin-Dre-Ryan-Tyler
40.0 Game totals

[DukeWarhead]

1. From being a team that was putting the final pieces together to a team that is moving backward in both performance and attitude. Can we get a do-over?

2. Looking at the team now, I'm wondering just how good it really is, or can be, and that makes me ask what has been Duke's best win thus far? Given how Kansas and Michigan St. are playing, it might be one of those. The first half against Washington? The second half against Davidson? It's hard to tell how far we've come and how far we have to go, but I'm sincerely hoping we will see some stronger performances this next week.

3. Lastly, when are we going to finally get rid of the black unis? No way we win that game today if we were in the blacks. The blue unis saved us today. :)

[Kedsy]

Not enough people have mentioned our offensive troubles. Our defense has been bad, but it was our offense that was getting us by tough opponents earlier in the year.

Totally disagree with this. Our offensive efficiency is #4 in the country (according to Pomeroy). Our O wasn't good against either Ohio State or Temple, but our D in those games was downright terrible (and really pretty bad all season, at least by Duke standards: #50 in the country according to KenPom). If our D even approached the efficiency of our O, we'd be in great shape right now.

As far as our offense now vs. our offense in the first seven games, I believe our adjusted offensive efficiency has increased since we got back from Hawaii, even including Ohio State (though I'm not entirely sure about that; but if it hasn't increased it certainly hasn't gone down).

In my opinion, our occasional struggles are all about defense.

[Jim3k]

Austin Rivers gives me a headache. Aside from his individualism; his turnovers, lack of defense, forced shots drive me crazy. But I understand he has great ability so you have to live with some of his mistakes, I guess. For all the talk of him being an "elite penetrator/finisher" he sure seems to turn the ball over/force shots/miss shots as a penetrator therefore making him not so elite. I understand his shake and crossover look good but lately he isn't just blowing by his man as easy as some people think he can. And in the process the above mentioned mistakes/misplays are happening more

Remember, this is the sort of freshman/sophomore year that DeMarcus Nelson had. He was notorious for driving to the bucket only to miss, be swiped or be blocked. It took him time to become crafty enough to overcome those issues. Austin will get past this.

[77devil]

Remember, this is the sort of freshman/sophomore year that DeMarcus Nelson had. He was notorious for driving to the bucket only to miss, be swiped or be blocked. It took him time to become crafty enough to overcome those issues. Austin will get past this.

Good comparison except that Austin may not stick around long enough.

[Saratoga2]

1. Tech never went zone. The 3's we took were good looks that just did not fall. Road game blues I suppose
2. The rebound advantage was more about Tech being quicker to the ball, and spreading us out. Plus their guards out-rebounding our guards.
3. Never trust game-tracker. Miles sat out the last several minutes with 4 fouls, but Mason never had 4 fouls. Mason finished with 3 fouls and played well down the stretch
4. SilentG was a DNP. I feel this is K attempting to shorten the rotation while also trying to get Andre going. Andre's defense was solid. Not great but not terrible either. He had a couple of good drives as well drawing fouls
5. Quinn played well on offense, but struggled at times on defense. Still a work in progress. He had just played a 4/5 minute stretch when Tyler came in to close it out. That was likely for defense and experience in a conference road game.

Hope this helps

Game tracker was indeed wrong about the number of fouls on Mason. They also had a kid from GT with 5 fouls and still playing. They showed Quinn with 5 assists and a steal but the officials stats are different. Thanks for the input. I would much rather see the game in person, but use game tracker if nothing else is available.

[Saratoga2]

Good post cspan, very good observations.

Austin Rivers gives me a headache. Aside from his individualism; his turnovers, lack of defense, forced shots drive me crazy. But I understand he has great ability so you have to live with some of his mistakes, I guess. For all the talk of him being an "elite penetrator/finisher" he sure seems to turn the ball over/force shots/miss shots as a penetrator therefore making him not so elite. I understand his shake and crossover look good but lately he isn't just blowing by his man as easy as some people think he can. And in the process the above mentioned mistakes/misplays are happening more

Perhaps Austin will not be ready for the NBA at the end of this season as we all seem to have concluded. If he stays, what does that mean for our recruiting?

[_Gary]

^Watch Rivers catch, turn and go in slow-mo. It's actually quite amusing. :p

But it's nothing in comparison with what Hansblahblah used to get away with. Now there was a kid that knew how to travel. He will forever be unparalleled in taking an extra 2, 3, or 4 steps. And he did it over a four year span! :eek:

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I saw the second half of the Temple game and just caught the second half of the tech game and it was my first look at Duke since late November. I have had a chance to see several other games and teams, and there are some teams playing very well out there. (I have not seen UNC at all since November).
Anyways...

Issues?

The first obvious thing is the chemistry. It's not working. Those two halfs I saw were the most unorganized play I can recall from a Duke team over the past ten years. They are not working together as a well oiled machine. I'm not talking about personalities, I have no clue how they get along off the court, I'm talking about on the court. They don't seem to have a "feel" for each others intentions. There's a lot of standing around and half hearted picks from the wings, especially.
Somehow Coach K has to figure out how to get Curry more involved. Rivers and him are just not intuitive with each other.
Kelly can't seem to find his role. Is he a wing? Too slow off the dribble but can hit the face up, kick out J.
Active in the post? Not really. He basically picks up gargage points if he gets any inside and he can't seem to really guard either spot. He's a nice player, but not one a team has to adjust for.

Strength.

This appears to be a weak Duke team when you look around at other top teams in the country. Outside of Mason and Miles, who are essentially the same sort of player, there is no strength in the line up and it shows.
If the team was really moving the ball, cutting hard, using their quickness and multiple passes untill the right shot pesented itself...the lack of strength would be hidden and not that big a deal on offense.
Defensively, the way the games are being called these days, brute force is coming as the games get more intense and physical. Duke is going to be facing much stronger inside players where fouls on Mason and Miles are going to hurt.

Post offense?

I still don't see a real threat inside from anyone that would help open the wings so that Duke can get more open looks to the shooters, the teams real strength. Mason has gotten better and has shown a few nice moves when given some space, but Duke's offense inside is followups and transition. I think coach K is trying to go there more in the half court, but nobody is worried that Duke is going to beat them from the inside out.

[superdave]

^Watch Rivers catch, turn and go in slow-mo. It's actually quite amusing. :p

This video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdhTvK_ZRpg) of Austin is quite amusing.

[superdave]

I was hoping for a beat down, but actually with this team, it may serve them better that it went to the wire. They made enough plays down the stretch to get the win. One other thing K harped on was the great play Mason made on the semi-bad alley oop pass from Seth. He said he felt Mason made an incredibly great play there to have the presence of mind to make the catch off the glass and still finish. He felt that play was a turning point that helped lead to the win.

I voted for Seth for player of the game because a light bulb went off in his head in the 2nd half yesterday. I thought he willed a few plays down the stretch. He just decided what he was going to do and went and made it happen. I think Miles has had a similar change of perspective the last few weeks. Hope both can build on it and become better leaders and big play guys for us. Today was also important because saw that you can still contribute even when your shot is not falling. A road win in conference is always important.

[moonpie23]

Idk about everyone else but I have no problem playing UNC this year. I feel we matchup very very well with them.

you should prolly get a ct scan. I'm afraid it's gonna be ugly.

[moonpie23]

Good comparison except that Austin may not stick around long enough.

I really don't think he's going anywhere. admittedly, he has nba contacts, but I don't think he's ready for the league. jmho

[wilko]

I really don't think he's going anywhere. admittedly, he has nba contacts, but I don't think he's ready for the league. jmho

I agree with this thought.... as of today anyway...
If AR cant dominate with his go-to move in college, the grown men in the NBA will be less agreeable to allowing him to score.

AR is still a frosh - His only sin is that he not ready to be "Kyrie V2". He'll get there.
I'm not sure why folks want to refer to his body language as frosty/un-involved/or selfish.. hes trying to develop his go-to move with consistency. Honing the killer instinct so that when you KNOW its coming, it cant be stopped.. He strikes me from afar as being a very intense focused young man. No more no less..

I'm sure the shot-charters are boiling down some stats as I type this. GT hit some crazy hard shots. I'd like to see how shots were made just by going up and shooting over our Guards. It struck me in the 2nd half that AR's man kept going at him and making buckets..... not that AR was playing matador or anything... he looked to be maybe a hair-length away from blocking 3 or 4 shots...

I think it was Kedsy I that were chatting with in another thread about giving Michael Gbinije some burn to disrupt the opposing PG with his length and quickness. We were speculating IF he could carve a role on this team doing that.. It would have been interesting to see him get some traction vs GT to disrupt.

[bird]

you should prolly get a ct scan. I'm afraid it's gonna be ugly.

I've been waiting for a major turnaround on defense and have not seen it. Unless there is a dramatic change on the defensive end, UNC is going to score 1.2+ points per possession and win by 20+ points. We'll score the ball OK, but right now the Duke defense seems tailor made for this UNC squad. Ball pressure - still weak. Help defense to deal with penetration - still weak. Perimeter defense against the 3 - notably weak. Transition defense - at times weak. Rebounding, interior defense and general scrappiness is good at times, but interior defense and rebounding and scrappiness may be moot when we are watching a dunk parade on the break and open 3s a draining.

This is the weakest Duke defense I have seen in more than a decade, and absent improvement maybe ends up as one of the two or three weakest defensive squads in the K era.

[arnie]

This video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdhTvK_ZRpg) of Austin is quite amusing.

Thought I was watching MJ.

[Duvall]

you should prolly get a ct scan. I'm afraid it's gonna be ugly.

Yeah, but some of you guys are always afraid of playing UNC.

Still waiting for this UNC team to turn in the kind of dominant performance against a quality team that is supposed to inspire fear. Granted, their horrible schedule hasn't given them too many chances in that regard.

[Newton_14]

I saw the second half of the Temple game and just caught the second half of the tech game and it was my first look at Duke since late November. I have had a chance to see several other games and teams, and there are some teams playing very well out there. (I have not seen UNC at all since November).
Anyways...

Issues?

The first obvious thing is the chemistry. It's not working. Those two halfs I saw were the most unorganized play I can recall from a Duke team over the past ten years. They are not working together as a well oiled machine. I'm not talking about personalities, I have no clue how they get along off the court, I'm talking about on the court. They don't seem to have a "feel" for each others intentions. There's a lot of standing around and half hearted picks from the wings, especially.
Somehow Coach K has to figure out how to get Curry more involved. Rivers and him are just not intuitive with each other.
Kelly can't seem to find his role. Is he a wing? Too slow off the dribble but can hit the face up, kick out J.
Active in the post? Not really. He basically picks up gargage points if he gets any inside and he can't seem to really guard either spot. He's a nice player, but not one a team has to adjust for.

Strength.

This appears to be a weak Duke team when you look around at other top teams in the country. Outside of Mason and Miles, who are essentially the same sort of player, there is no strength in the line up and it shows.
If the team was really moving the ball, cutting hard, using their quickness and multiple passes untill the right shot pesented itself...the lack of strength would be hidden and not that big a deal on offense.
Defensively, the way the games are being called these days, brute force is coming as the games get more intense and physical. Duke is going to be facing much stronger inside players where fouls on Mason and Miles are going to hurt.

Post offense?

I still don't see a real threat inside from anyone that would help open the wings so that Duke can get more open looks to the shooters, the teams real strength. Mason has gotten better and has shown a few nice moves when given some space, but Duke's offense inside is followups and transition. I think coach K is trying to go there more in the half court, but nobody is worried that Duke is going to beat them from the inside out.

I've always found that trying to judge how good a college team is by watching one game on TV leaves one terribly misled just about every time. Someone watching Florida, Georgetown, and Louisville for the first time in weeks yesterday would come away thinking none are teams to be feared, while someone watching Clemson, Wake, and Notre Dame would come away thinking those teams are much better than they actually are.

Unless you follow a college team closely and watch every game they play it's just about impossible to determine how good or bad they are. That's just the nature of the beast that is college hoops. Duke is 13-2 against one of the tougher schedules in the country while still working out the kinks, and searching for the right mix and rotation. Offensively they can hurt you in multiple ways, both inside and out. The data over the entire 15 games clearly shows that. Very balanced on offense. The issues to be worked out are on defense.

Haven't seen anyone write the words "Hates it Physical" about any of Duke's 4 post players either...:)

[greybeard]

@ Chris Randolph:

In fairness to the guards, Mason was getting pushed off the blocks most of the day, and given his lack of a mid-range game it doesn't make sense to throw it to him 10-12 feet our on the baseline.

Touches are crucial! You catch it, the defender must move and guard; he gives you space within 12-13 feet, you MUST take that shot. Mason, I believe, has the ability to make a high percentage of them with the following caveats: you can't ask him to be fighting for position 90 percent of the time on offense and expect him to make the one or two tries that he gets from short range: and, assuming you are geared to have an offense that involves much more movement and results in short jump shot catches with the receiver on balance and in, or able to create, rhythm (there must be tons of offensive approaches/set plays/rotations that do that), you can't be mad if he might miss a couple.

I understand that 3's lead to percentage computations that are central to Dukes strategy on offense. That said, I'd have to think that integrating the bigs more in the offense to score more inside and have more easy movement and touches in the offense would be a considerable, and perhaps even necessary, part of the offense. Having the littles all positioned outside the three and making almost all their catches there makes pass penetration to places inside or a step or two outside the paint from where Mason, Miles, Ryan, and Harrison (yes I'd deploy the latter two there much more often than it seems Duke currently does) can hurt people, is much more difficult proposition, or so it seems, if the opposition is deployed to take the 3-shot away.

Somebody was going to crunch these numbers, keep count of touches, and make reports, at least as I recall.

Right now it seems that defenses might be geared to making the 3-game difficult and that Duke has no meaningful approach to creating an inside game to counteract that. If you catch it anywhere within 12 feet with a bit of advantage, which almost necessarily means off the move (except when the help on the strong side leaves an open big on the weak side) you should be a very difficult person to stop. If the range needs to be closer, say 10 feet or 8, then you gear for that. It seems to me that passing from outside the three line for smaller sized guards who are outside the 3 and pressured by larger and athletic defenders makes pass-penetration offense a difficult proposition.

We might well see a different type deployment from Duke when confronted with defenses geared to stopping the 3-ball, unless, as is entirely possible, K finds away of defeating that pressure and getting the type of 3 looks that he wants in some other fashion. The one thing that the current crop of 3 shooters face is that they often are outsized by the guys defending them, making pass penetration difficult, especially when the bigs are set low with a defender positioned to slide and intercept, knock it away, or prevent the receiver from having the room/ability to maneuver. The one good sized 3-shooter Duke has, Dre, is not the best passer. He also is not the best at creating some room by gaining advantage on the bounce, controlling the ball in the mid range, and thus demanding help that leaves another shooter open. Neither have any of the other littles shown that game--the beat-your-man, hesitation to shoot the mid, posssibly continue to dujmp it inside from much closer range, or, having drawn a defender or two inside to help, to kick it for a three. Somehow, teams have figured out how to keep Rivers and Curry from getting to the rim when they begin from the 3 line, inside help, and often cutting off a good drop-off to a big for an easy two. Cook, against Temple, threw one up over his back shoulder, over the big help to someone who met it at the rim. Great play but not what you want to have to get.

It will be interesting. It seems to me that Duke has an issue that must be solved. K and some players interviewed on his show suggested that Duke would be lloking to defend much more closely on the exterior and look to create an amped up running game. That does not seem to have worked thus far. We'll see what develops. I like the idea of more high-low game, but think that the other three players on the court must be part of it--there must be more mid range scoring, movement, and passing by them, to make that game work optimally. Maybe not. Miles made a really nice go-get-the-ball to Mason that led to s score a few games ago. I'd like to see Ryan there. Also, if the object was to get the ball to a big playing closer to the basket but geared to catching it on the move, Ryan might well be a very interesting option when Mason is out, perhaps when he is in as well. Nothing stops there from being a little high low rotation that might create easy catches with the type of advantage/space that Ryan seems optimally suited to exploit.

But, hey, I ain't the coach, and this is just a regular joe kicking it at the local pub . K is the best in the business; it should be interesting to see how this plays out.

[MCFinARL]

This video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdhTvK_ZRpg) of Austin is quite amusing.

Think this says a lot about how tightly the Mcdonald's All-Star game is called. ;)

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I've always found that trying to judge how good a college team is by watching one game on TV leaves one terribly misled just about every time. Someone watching Florida, Georgetown, and Louisville for the first time in weeks yesterday would come away thinking none are teams to be feared, while someone watching Clemson, Wake, and Notre Dame would come away thinking those teams are much better than they actually are.

Unless you follow a college team closely and watch every game they play it's just about impossible to determine how good or bad they are. That's just the nature of the beast that is college hoops. Duke is 13-2 against one of the tougher schedules in the country while still working out the kinks, and searching for the right mix and rotation. Offensively they can hurt you in multiple ways, both inside and out. The data over the entire 15 games clearly shows that. Very balanced on offense. The issues to be worked out are on defense.

Haven't seen anyone write the words "Hates it Physical" about any of Duke's 4 post players either...:)

Not trying to judge the whole Duke season there, just some observations that I think are valid from the last two games i saw as compared to other teams I've been watching.


PS: The "hates it physical" was probably a good scouting report. Overmatched teams often resort to mugging UNC players to compensate for the size and skill levels, it's the main reason why UNC usually goes to the line more aften than other teams, along with the fact that UNC actually does feed the post to score, not just to kick it back out. :)

[burns15]

I think we lack the larger, quick wing we've almost always had in the past. We truly miss a Kyle Singler more than anyone else on last years team even though Nolan was terrific.

We do have that guy, he just didn't play... Michael Gbinije

[tommy]

This is the second game in a row where the opposing team made almost every ridiculous shot they could. I mean really, go back and look at some of those shots. Circus shots, shots with hands in their faces...it got us against Temple, this time we had just enough. Sometimes you have those games, but dang it sucks.

With the line up changes I saw a lot of the same...with all the clamoring for "changes" I expected better. Although it appears I'm in the minority.

In reviewing the game closely as I charted our defense (see other thread) what I saw was that yes, GT indeed hit a lot of tough shots. Not "ridiculous" shots. Tough shots, with a hand in the face, highly contested. Our defensive numbers would've looked a lot better had a more typical number of those difficult shots gone in, as opposed to the % that did go in. Hats off to them, that's all. It wasn't luck.

[MCFinARL]

Not trying to judge the whole Duke season there, just some observations that I think are valid from the last two games i saw as compared to other teams I've been watching.


PS: The "hates it physical" was probably a good scouting report. Overmatched teams often resort to mugging UNC players to compensate for the size and skill levels, it's the main reason why UNC usually goes to the line more aften than other teams, along with the fact that UNC actually does feed the post to score, not just to kick it back out. :)

What, you mean UNC doesn't get all the calls? ;)

[UrinalCake]

I still don't see a real threat inside from anyone that would help open the wings so that Duke can get more open looks to the shooters, the teams real strength. Mason has gotten better and has shown a few nice moves when given some space, but Duke's offense inside is followups and transition. I think coach K is trying to go there more in the half court, but nobody is worried that Duke is going to beat them from the inside out.

I agree with this (unfortunately) and I think both Temple and GT have figured out that the book on Duke is to shut down the perimeter (not too hard for everyone except Rivers) and use single coverage on the big guys. Even when the Plumlees are scoring seemingly at will, we seem unwilling to pound it inside every time.

BTW I agree with those that said we match up well with UNC. I think they're the better team and should win, but head-to-head I think we stand a better chance than our discrepancy in talent level would suggest.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I agree with this (unfortunately) and I think both Temple and GT have figured out that the book on Duke is to shut down the perimeter (not too hard for everyone except Rivers) and use single coverage on the big guys. Even when the Plumlees are scoring seemingly at will, we seem unwilling to pound it inside every time.

BTW I agree with those that said we match up well with UNC. I think they're the better team and should win, but head-to-head I think we stand a better chance than our discrepancy in talent level would suggest.

I also agree that Duke matches up well with UNC and it will be a dangerous game for the Heels, as always.

Duke will have to impose their will off the dribble, which is easier said than done, but a quick team that can shoot it from deep and at least hold it's own on the boards can beat them on a hot shooting night.

That said, I don't think UNC has shown much of the defense it will be bringing as the intensity level increases. I think this UNC team is a very good defensive team.

I will grant they have shown a terrible habit of playing to the level of their opponents, always have it seems and it drives me nuts, but it is hard to score on them when they play with focus.

[davekay1971]

Since this is the Ga Tech post-game thread and UNC comprises 2 (with the obvious possiblity of more in post-season play) games on the remainder of our schedule, I'm not concerning myself much with how we match up against the Heels...at least, not until February!

Some of the previous posts about Duke's post play (especially Wheat's) are great and highlight one area where there is tremendous room to improve our offensive efficiency (which is already very, very good). Granted that Miles and Mason have not shown enough for other teams to commit to doubling down on them or packing the paint. However, they are both capable at finishing when guarded one on one. I would love to see more of our half-court sets move through the post, as Seth and Andre would benefit TREMENDOUSLY from receiving the ball in position to shoot on kick-outs. Let's say we have Quinn feeding the post, with Kelly, Seth, and Austin all getting themselves well spaced on the perimeter. If Mason or Miles is guarded one on one, they have a good chance to score or (egads, in the case of Mase) get fouled. If a perimeter defender drops down on them, those guys should be able to find one of those three excellent three point shooters for an open look. Even Quinn and Tyler can nail 3s reasonably well, so ultimately we could have four guys ready to knock down a 3 IF the ball goes through the post.

Neither Seth nor Andre is particularly adept at creating their own shot off the dribble, so that kind of inside-outside motion is crucial. Austin CAN create that with his penetration-and-kick, and he's getting better at looking for it. Quinn looks like he may be able to get some good penetation-and-kick going as well. Neither Miles nor Mason is the passer from the post that Zoubs was, but they certainly aren't black holes, either. One of my hopes, in the first half of ACC play, is to see us start incorporating the post play more regularly. We started the season focusing on it, have gotten away from it at times, and I'm hopeful to see it re-emphasized.

Of course, our bigger problem is improving defensive efficiency. I still have no great solutions there. Part of me is starting to gestate on the idea of a 3-2 zone (or some mutant offspring of it like the Amoeba defense or the Boeheim Befuddler). But, given that I've been watching Duke hoops as long as K has been there, I know that's not going to happen. So I'm left wondering what tweak of aggressive half-court man-to-man will get our defensive efficiency up to top 10 where we're used to seeing it...without sacrificing our top 10 offensive efficiency. Maybe K can pull a Deano and substitute Tyler and Silent G in after every Duke made basket, and substitute Quinn and Andre in after opponent made basket.

[Newton_14]

Neither Miles nor Mason is the passer from the post that Zoubs was, but they certainly aren't black holes, either. One of my hopes, in the first half of ACC play, is to see us start incorporating the post play more regularly. We started the season focusing on it, have gotten away from it at times, and I'm hopeful to see it re-emphasized.


Only disagree with this one point. Mason is a great passer from the post. He was last year and is again this year. We ran one play a lot last season that we have occasionally ran this year, where Mason posts on the left block, spins left into the lane, then hits Andre, who cuts from the right wing towards the top of the key. Andre makes that shot almost every time. I wish we would run that more often. Going back over the last 15 years or more, Duke has hit a large percentage of 3's when the shooter catches the pass from a post guy who has kicked out, or from a wing driver who drove to the middle of the lane then kicks out to the other wing. The make percentage from those two types of passes has been incredibly high over that time.

I was poking at Wheat a little, but Duke has gotten away from feeding the post the last two or 3 games and that needs to change. Like I said in the Temple thread, I fully believe Miles could have went for 25+ in the Temple game had he gotten 30+ minutes and more touches. Mason could have easily joined him with 20+.

We did not try hard enough in the Tech game to get those 2 the ball either. Should have posted Ryan more in both games as well. We have one of the best front lines in the country and need to use it more.

Factoid of The Week: Ryan Kelly scored 21 points on 3, count'em 3 Shot Attempts in the Tech Game. That has to be some kind of record nationally in college hoops!

[duke09hms]

I was poking at Wheat a little, but Duke has gotten away from feeding the post the last two or 3 games and that needs to change. Like I said in the Temple thread, I fully believe Miles could have went for 25+ in the Temple game had he gotten 30+ minutes and more touches. Mason could have easily joined him with 20+.

We did not try hard enough in the Tech game to get those 2 the ball either. Should have posted Ryan more in both games as well. We have one of the best front lines in the country and need to use it more.

Factoid of The Week: Ryan Kelly scored 21 points on 3, count'em 3 Shot Attempts in the Tech Game. That has to be some kind of record nationally in college hoops!

Actually it was 4 shots, but yeah, it's still pretty awesome. However, the fact that Kelly only got 4 shots continues to point out Duke's stubborn desire year-after-year to be a perimeter-dominated offense even when our personnel does not fit. Miles/Mason/Ryan need more touches.

[Newton_14]

Actually it was 4 shots, but yeah, it's still pretty awesome. However, the fact that Kelly only got 4 shots continues to point out Duke's stubborn desire year-after-year to be a perimeter-dominated offense even when our personnel does not fit. Miles/Mason/Ryan need more touches.

The radio report this morning said 3, but I did not check the boxscore. Like you said, either way it's still amazing. And I agree 100% about all 3 needing more touches...

[ncexnyc]

Only disagree with this one point. Mason is a great passer from the post. He was last year and is again this year. We ran one play a lot last season that we have occasionally ran this year, where Mason posts on the left block, spins left into the lane, then hits Andre, who cuts from the right wing towards the top of the key. Andre makes that shot almost every time. I wish we would run that more often. Going back over the last 15 years or more, Duke has hit a large percentage of 3's when the shooter catches the pass from a post guy who has kicked out, or from a wing driver who drove to the middle of the lane then kicks out to the other wing. The make percentage from those two types of passes has been incredibly high over that time.

I was poking at Wheat a little, but Duke has gotten away from feeding the post the last two or 3 games and that needs to change. Like I said in the Temple thread, I fully believe Miles could have went for 25+ in the Temple game had he gotten 30+ minutes and more touches. Mason could have easily joined him with 20+.

We did not try hard enough in the Tech game to get those 2 the ball either. Should have posted Ryan more in both games as well. We have one of the best front lines in the country and need to use it more.

Factoid of The Week: Ryan Kelly scored 21 points on 3, count'em 3 Shot Attempts in the Tech Game. That has to be some kind of record nationally in college hoops!
It was indeed disappointing to see us not feed Miles time and time again in the Temple game, when Temple had no clue on how to stop Miles. It also seems as if we've stopped making the feed into the post a priority. The only explaination that I can come up with is that Coach K is realizes we can now do these things and has decided to work on the other pieces of the puzzle.

[elvis14]

It was indeed disappointing to see us not feed Miles time and time again in the Temple game, when Temple had no clue on how to stop Miles. It also seems as if we've stopped making the feed into the post a priority. The only explaination that I can come up with is that Coach K is realizes we can now do these things and has decided to work on the other pieces of the puzzle.

I thought the same thing. Miles was making it look easy. I thought that K would adjust his substitution rotation to keep Miles going and was surprised when he didn't. And then we just stopped feeding the post when Temples strength was on the perimeter. Usually by this time of year I think I have the team figured out. In some ways I don't have this team figured out yet. It seems like we have enough talent to be a top team. I'm enjoying all the DBR discussions on the different ways the team might come together.

[SMO]

A couple other top teams' conference road results are making this one look better. How many people think OSU and Louisville would trade last night's results for a conference road win by 7 having never trailed?

[Billy Dat]

I wasn't able to watch the game until last night so I obviously knew the outcome. It's clearly a less stressful way to watch a close win and allows for more analysis as you aren't emotionally clouded.

I fully agree with those who point out that we are still adjusting to a constantly changing rotation and starting line-up - that has a major impact on our team play at both ends. The Tech game featured a new starting PG and Miles replacing Kelly. This is a far cry from opening day with Curry at the point alongside Rivers, Andre, Kelly and Mason. Austin and Mason are the only two guys playing the same role for all 15 games. Everyone else is in flux, and the rotations are different. It's going to take a while for this to be figured out. I don't think accounts of Duke's "struggles" are taking that into strong enough consideration. But, it tells me we can still get a lot better, especially because Cook looks really good. I also agree with those who said we played hard, that the bigs need more touches on offense and that Tech hit some crazy shots that were well defended. I agree that our core problem as a team is defense, but I think it will get better if and when the coaches can find a starting line-up and rotation that is a little more set.

A couple of things I didn't see mentioned that I wanted to add:
-When we built that lead, we looked GREAT! So what if it was only "the 1st Quarter", it showed our upside potential.
-Despite our offensive efficiency, the eye test told me that it was poor offensive execution that let Tech back in the game. First off, we missed a bunch of very clean looks from 3, at least 3-4. Second, we botched 2 fast breaks that we should have converted, at least one of which led to a quick bucket on the other end. Also, in the "second quarter", there were a series of exchanges where we took some bad rushed 3s. If we executed better on O, we could have kept that lead at double digits.
-I thought Rivers did a nice job dishing, he only had two assists but he set up guys for open looks that they just did knock down.

In the post game presser, K summed up the team well, "There's no overlooking or anything. We're not that good. We're good, but we're not that good to overlook anybody. We'll be in sad shape if we start overlooking anybody."

Big game tomorrow.

[siestadogz]

Duke began the season with wins over Tennessee, Michigan, Michigan state, and Kansas before losing to Ohio state. After the loss to a hot Ohio state team on their home court, Duke moved Seth Curry from the point. I feel that Duke has not played as well since. Was this move an overreaction to a bad loss or a good long term idea?

[Bluealum]

Duke began the season with wins over Tennessee, Michigan, Michigan state, and Kansas before losing to Ohio state. After the loss to a hot Ohio state team on their home court, Duke moved Seth Curry from the point. I feel that Duke has not played as well since. Was this move an overreaction to a bad loss or a good long term idea?

This has been mentioned a couple of times and I think it is not only a good idea, it was essential for this team to maximize it's potential even if it means a few losses and more Gary like sweating for the fanbase in close games.

With Andre and Seth in the lineup, we only have 1 penetrating guard on the floor. This means that the other two can be closely defended to both prevent 3's as well as easy entry passes to our under-utilized bigs. They aren't big enough to pass over defenders or quick enough to make them pay for this approach. This really stifles our offense. Once teams figure this out we become easy to defend, and with Duke, such weaknesses are exposed early and quite publicly. Those same teams playing against our old lineup would approach us differently if they knew then what they know now. This is why continued evolution is critical as we look to build an offense that is multi-dimensional and a defense that can adjust to different styles and personnel.

This is also why I believe that having Quin and Austin on the floor together makes us so much more dangerous offensively. They immediately make a defense pay for guarding too closely and once the defense is reacting and compensating, the jump shooting acumen of guys like Andre, Ryan, and to a lessor extent Seth (because he can also shoot off the dribble) become bigger assets.

I also agree with posters that suggest that good offense can help our defense, which is an area of weakness. While several have noted that our offensive efficiency is very good, for the GT game in particular, all of the long 3 point misses created run out opportunities allowing them to operate against our defense when it was not completely set. As we are not a great defensive team, this is a major concern against good and quick teams.

Having the ball go inside more often has several benefits and I will summarize many posters on this.

1.) Kickouts result in better 3's
2.) We have very good interior rebounders, and we take advantage of that when the rebounding opportunities are off short misses rather than long 3's.
3.) The offensive capabilities of all 3 of our big's have vastly improved and we can capitalize on this to a greater extent.
4.) When the defense rebounds a short miss, we are in a much better position to get back as our guards are on the perimeter and defenders aren't as likely to run out when they are concerned about helping on the boards against our interior size.

We have debated, and will continue debating lineup choices for the remainder of the season with the group we have. In my view, our best lineups will have both Quin and Austin on the floor with 2 of the bigs and 1 of Seth or Andre with them. When Quin or Austin is not in, Seth should be as he is our third best penetrator and having him with 1 of the other two is better than having Tyler or Michael in with just 1 of the above as we then become very stagnant and prone to long range contested jump shots against a set defense.

[Kedsy]

With Andre and Seth in the lineup, we only have 1 penetrating guard on the floor. This means that the other two can be closely defended to both prevent 3's as well as easy entry passes to our under-utilized bigs. They aren't big enough to pass over defenders or quick enough to make them pay for this approach. This really stifles our offense.

I hear what you're saying, but disagree. Having Andre and Seth in the lineup requires their men to guard them closely. This leaves Mason and Austin in one-on-one coverage, and both of them will score more often than not in such scenarios. If help comes, both of them can kick it out to a deadly shooter (Andre, Seth, or Ryan). The only evolution we needed from those early games was for Austin to learn when to kick out, which I think he's learning. So while I agree Quinn is a better ballhandler than either Seth or Andre, I don't necessarily think the Quinn/Seth/Austin perimeter is better offensively than Seth/Austin/Andre.


I also agree with posters that suggest that good offense can help our defense, which is an area of weakness.

It's been a much more glaring area of weakness with Quinn (and to a lesser extent Tyler) on the court with Seth at SG and Austin at SF. That's a very small perimeter (in addition to not being great at staying in front of their man) and teams have been making us pay. Going into Ohio State, I believe Pomeroy rated our defense somewhere between 10th and 15th. Now it's 52nd. A big part of that drop has been the lineup change.

Presumably K knows this and believes the short term pain will pay off in long term gain. Hopefully, he's right.

[Sgt. Dingleberry]

It makes me feel a little bit better watching Rice and GT roll over State in the first half in Raleigh. 40-29 at the half. Glen Rice Jr is picking up right where he left off.