Jabari Parker To Duke!!

[rotogod00]

I didn't see a thread exclusive to him, so decided to open one up with this "news" (nothing new and earth-shattering really, but it's still good to see us listed)

ESPN.com Recruiting Nation is saying that Parker has a list of 10 schools he will be choosing from: DePaul, Duke, Illinois, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisville, Michigan State, North Carolina, Northwestern and Ohio State

(mods: feel free to combine this into the 2013 Recruiting thread if it should be in there instead)

[-bdbd]

For those not already familliar with Jabari Parker, he hails from Coach K's home town of Chicago, is 6'7" and about 215 lbs. He is rated as the #1 SF in the 2013 class and, at least by some, as the #1 overall kid in his class. Apparently he's really shaped himself up physically in the last year. He's described as very athletic and a terrific scorer in many ways (especially off the dribble), with a still-developing mid-range game. Though he doesn't shy away from the low post, apparently he can still add some muscle. All of the biggies are interested in him - Duke, OSU, KA, MSU, U-Con, IL, etc. Sounds like an incredible prospect.

[Greg_Newton]

^He's closer to 6'9 in shoes, and more like 220-225. He's more of a PF size-wise, in that he dunks off vertical very easily, etc.

Very NBA-like game already. K is more excited about him than any recruit in a while.

[UrinalCake]

K is more excited about him than any recruit in a while.

Perhaps since the last recruit we had named Parker? :)

[dukedoc]

I didn't see a thread exclusive to him, so decided to open one up with this "news" (nothing new and earth-shattering really, but it's still good to see us listed)

ESPN.com Recruiting Nation is saying that Parker has a list of 10 schools he will be choosing from: DePaul, Duke, Illinois, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisville, Michigan State, North Carolina, Northwestern and Ohio State

(mods: feel free to combine this into the 2013 Recruiting thread if it should be in there instead)

Interesting, no Washington? I thought there were some familial connections to the school that would at least keep them on the list at this point.

[rotogod00]

Parker's top-ranked Simeon squad is facing off against the other Parker's (Tony) Miller Grove team tonite on ESPN2 @ 7pm.

Here's what ESPN has to say about Jabari in their preview of the game:

"Junior small forward Jabari Parker, 6-foot-8 and 225 pounds, is as intelligent and versatile as they come; many people believe he may be the best high school player in the country, regardless of class. Winning is his biggest priority as he is savvy beyond his years and can dominate a game without scoring the ball. However, he can also explode to put up big numbers when his team needs it."

[Bluedog]

Anybody know if Jabari is a good student? I know this is something that shouldn't be discussed in length on a public forum as it's a private matter, but it'd be nice if perhaps a coach/parent already publicized this fact and that we already knew that his grades/scores were in order so we can actually recruit him. Simeon, unfortunately, is not a very good school with only 2% of the entire class being considered "college-ready" in all subjects (defined by about a 21 composite on the ACT) and the average college GPA of Simeon students at Illinois public universities is 1.93. He looks like a great prospect, though. Hope he gets work done in the classroom too.

[Duvall]

Anybody know if Jabari is a good student?

3.7 GPA (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/09/us/the-prayerful-young-man-can-also-nail-a-jumper.html).

[Lord Ash]

Some folks consider Jabari to be one of the best prospects regardless of position or class in a NUMBER of years. Very smart kid, very good student, very hard worker, and a TON of talent. Many people seem to think we are in excellent, excellent shape with him.

[FireOgilvie]

Parker's top-ranked Simeon squad is facing off against the other Parker's (Tony) Miller Grove team tonite on ESPN2 @ 7pm.

Here's what ESPN has to say about Jabari in their preview of the game:

"Junior small forward Jabari Parker, 6-foot-8 and 225 pounds, is as intelligent and versatile as they come; many people believe he may be the best high school player in the country, regardless of class. Winning is his biggest priority as he is savvy beyond his years and can dominate a game without scoring the ball. However, he can also explode to put up big numbers when his team needs it."

That's actually on Saturday (tomorrow) night.

[Jim3k]

Another NBA son. This time the father is Sonny Parker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Parker_%28basketball%29#Professional_basketb all_career), who was the first round pick of the Warriors in 1976. Sonny played in the NBA for six years.

[Newton_14]

For those not already familliar with Jabari Parker, he hails from Coach K's home town of Chicago, is 6'7" and about 215 lbs. He is rated as the #1 SF in the 2013 class and, at least by some, as the #1 overall kid in his class. Apparently he's really shaped himself up physically in the last year. He's described as very athletic and a terrific scorer in many ways (especially off the dribble), with a still-developing mid-range game. Though he doesn't shy away from the low post, apparently he can still add some muscle. All of the biggies are interested in him - Duke, OSU, KA, MSU, U-Con, IL, etc. Sounds like an incredible prospect.

Thanks BDBD as I have never read up on this Parker. Good info.

That said, based on our current season so far, I have one burning question regarding J Parker, CAN THE GUY DEFEND?

Moving forward, I suggest that be question numero uno on any new recruit Duke goes after! :cool:

[JNort]

Yeah I have not watched to much on him yet (I like to study the next class after the first is all committed up). However I have seen people saying things like "Best prospect since Lebron James" and overall people just comparing him to James. Either way the kid seems to be a stud and I would love for him to be a Dukie!

[Greg_Newton]

Perhaps since the last recruit we had named Parker? :)

Ha... naw, K really thinks Jabari will be a great one, and has for a while. I know he always compares recruits to Grant Hill, as a sales tactic (Perry Ellis...), but he actually seems to believe that Jabari could have a similar impact. "Cross between Hill and Kobe Bryant" were the terms in which I was told K described him to a particular friend last season, who said he hadn't heard him "gush" like that about a player in a while. :p

He doesn't look to have the that level of athleticism to me, but by all accounts he has an extremely advanced overall game for his size. I'm looking forward to seeing him tomorrow.

[Bob Green]

I just finished watching Simeon defeat Miller Grove 59-56 on ESPN3. While both Parkers were impressive, Jabari Parker was really impressive. He is great in transition, can knock down the 3-pointer, play defense inside and on the perimeter, deliver assists, help break the press and so on and so on. I was impressed to say the least! At halftime, commentator Adrian Branch stated that Jabari had Grant Hill's aproach to playing the game, Dennis Scott's shooting form and Carmelo Anthony's body. That is some high praise.

[mgtr]

Sign him up! Promise him anything that the NCAA and Coach K's conscience will allow. (Oh, well, that does limit what we can offer!). Show our game tapes, and show him that we have no real small forward (or wing) so that he can see what a big opening there is for him.

[Ichabod Drain]

I think the most enticing thing about him is his attitude. From the things i've heard and read on him he has an extremely good head on his shoulders and is also very coachable. When you mix that with his natural size and athletic ability as well basketball skill you get a very rare type of player.

[UrinalCake]

I know very little about him other than what I've read in this thread, but would bringing him in be considered "recruiting over" Mike G. and Alex Murphy? They all seem to have similar size and skill sets. He sounds awesome though.

[Ichabod Drain]

I know very little about him other than what I've read in this thread, but would bringing him in be considered "recruiting over" Mike G. and Alex Murphy? They all seem to have similar size and skill sets. He sounds awesome though.

As far as recruiting over current players I can't say what you would call it. When it comes to size and skill sets though he's likely to be 6'9 225 by the time he gets to college and already has a tremendous skill set. I like both Gbinije and Murphy a lot but this kids on another level.

We're also currently recruiting Shabazz Muhammed which you could bring up the same discussion about.

[Bob Green]

I know very little about him other than what I've read in this thread, but would bringing him in be considered "recruiting over" Mike G. and Alex Murphy? They all seem to have similar size and skill sets. He sounds awesome though.

Jabari Parker is the #1 rated recruit in the Class of 2013. Bringing him in would not be "recruiting over" anyone, it would be recruiting!

[roywhite]

I just finished watching Simeon defeat Miller Grove 59-56 on ESPN3. While both Parkers were impressive, Jabari Parker was really impressive. He is great in transition, can knock down the 3-pointer, play defense inside and on the perimeter, deliver assists, help break the press and so on and so on. I was impressed to say the least! At halftime, commentator Adrian Branch stated that Jabari had Grant Hill's aproach to playing the game, Dennis Scott's shooting form and Carmelo Anthony's body. That is some high praise.

Saw a good part of the game (switching back and forth to Saints/Lions) and was overall impressed with Jabari Parker.

My quick impessions---he seems to be a legit 6'8" and I've read he's still growing. Very good athlete, but not a freak type athlete; versatile and smart. He can shoot from long range, score near the basket with finesse, handle well, and pass well. Not sure what the final numbers were, but his shooting percentage dropped off after a quick start; he was 6-17 at one point. He tended to drift outside and Simeon didn't seem to look for him as much as they might. Comparing his game to others? Some Grant Hill, maybe some Carmelo Anthony.

The announcer and analysts just raved about what a quality young man he is....very hard worker, good student, very good grasp of the game, keeps adding facets to his game (he had a very nice floater from about 8 to 10 feet that you rarely see from a guy his size). One announcer also mentioned that while Jabari has excellent pro potential, some wouldn't be surprised to see him spend more than one year in college, a la Harrison Barnes or Jared Sullinger.

Has a list of 10(!) schools that includes Duke. Some thought that he would prefer to stay in Chicago area for family and friends, but nothing definite.

Just my .02, but from his play and comments about him, Jabari seems to be a guy who could develop a very strong relationship with Coach K. Hope so.

[DUKIE V(A)]

Sign him up! Promise him anything that the NCAA and Coach K's conscience will allow. (Oh, well, that does limit what we can offer!). Show our game tapes, and show him that we have no real small forward (or wing) so that he can see what a big opening there is for him.

Just not anything Coach Cal might be willing to offer please. :)

[mgtr]

Just not anything Coach Cal might be willing to offer please. :)

I absolutely agree!

[Devilsfan]

The biggest difference I see is that Ky is a NBA prep school and Duke is an institution that develops more in a young man than athletics especially from teachers like our head basketball coach. One blown out knee at Ky and your probably taught how to correctly ask if your customer would like fries with his order. Duke make leader's. Leaders on the court (our current challenge) and just as important, leaders in our society. That's just my take for what it's worth. I'm proud of Duke! Go Devils!

[dukedoc]

I guess we should start plugging away at this thread now. I recall Nerlens was ranked behind Jabari when he was a part of the 2013 class. Now he's ahead of Bazz in 2012. Says a lot about Jabari with respect to his stature among these elite talents. Bazz can now pass the baton off to Jabari as the blue chip crush du jour.

[Greg_Newton]

I guess we should start plugging away at this thread now. I recall Nerlens was ranked behind Jabari when he was a part of the 2013 class. Now he's ahead of Bazz in 2012. Says a lot about Jabari with respect to his stature among these elite talents. Bazz can now pass the baton off to Jabari as the blue chip crush du jour.

Yup. Jabari has always been the bigger fish to K, from what I've heard, although Bazz is a great player. I also think Jabari would fill more of a need in the 2014 team (and perhaps be a better all-around fit) than Shabazz would next year, given that we already have like 17 players competing for wing spots.

[CDu]

Yup. Jabari has always been the bigger fish to K, from what I've heard, although Bazz is a great player. I also think Jabari would fill more of a need in the 2014 team (and perhaps be a better all-around fit) than Shabazz would next year, given that we already have like 17 players competing for wing spots.

I'm not sure I see your logic here. We will be very crowded at the SF spot in 2014 as well with Murphy and Gbinije being even a year older and Matt Jones replacing Dawkins. Parker seems to be just as big a target as Muhammad, and would fill the exact same role. I'd even say that we'll have even less of a need for a SF in 2014 than in 2013.

[JNort]

I'm not sure I see your logic here. We will be very crowded at the SF spot in 2014 as well with Murphy and Gbinije being even a year older and Matt Jones replacing Dawkins. Parker seems to be just as big a target as Muhammad, and would fill the exact same role. I'd even say that we'll have even less of a need for a SF in 2014 than in 2013.

Yes but, Kelly will have graduated and we will need another PF other than just Josh and I expect many PF mins to go to Alex which mean MG is the only SF.

[Greg_Newton]

I'm not sure I see your logic here. We will be very crowded at the SF spot in 2014 as well with Murphy and Gbinije being even a year older and Matt Jones replacing Dawkins. Parker seems to be just as big a target as Muhammad, and would fill the exact same role. I'd even say that we'll have even less of a need for a SF in 2014 than in 2013.

My take is that Muhammad is a 2/3, and that already have 5-6 quality players competing for those two spots this year (depending if Thornton is ever off the ball). No All-Americans, but certainly not a position of need. Parker, OTOH, is a 3/4, and we'll only have 3-4 players competing for those positions in 2014 (depending on whether or not Amile commits), and our only PF currently on board for that year is Hairston, who I'm not entirely convinced has the upside to be more than a sixth man in an ideal scenario.

I know Jabari is an NBA three, but it seems like it'd be in everybody's best interests for him to play the Deng/Battier PF position at Duke... which he could likely step right in and do.

[CDu]

My take is that Muhammad is a 2/3, and that already have 5-6 quality players competing for those two spots this year (depending if Thornton is ever off the ball). No All-Americans, but certainly not a position of need. Parker, OTOH, is a 3/4, and we'll only have 3-4 players competing for those positions in 2014 (depending on whether or not Amile commits), and our only PF currently on board for that year is Hairston, who I'm not entirely convinced has the upside to be more than a sixth man in an ideal scenario.

I know Jabari is an NBA three, but it seems like it'd be in everybody's best interests for him to play the Deng/Battier PF position at Duke... which he could likely step right in and do.

Both Muhammad and Parker are college 3s. At 6'7", I wouldn't want Parker to be primarily a PF any more than I want Murphy or Muhammad to be a SG.

[Duke79UNLV77]

Talent-wise, it sounds like both Bazz and Parker are total studs and impact players, regardless of position. With Bazz, though, if we didn't get him after UCLA took Larry Drew, had a disastrous year with empty stands, had Josh Smith play fat and disinterested, had the SI article, which, while not totally scandalous certainly didn't make Howland sound like a great leader or a likable guy, and a history of playing slow even with Westbrook, then we just weren't going to get him. Not suggesting that Bazz was insincere or played K, but he was probably leaning heavily to UCLA from the start.

By contrast, Parker has been said to be a Duke lean from the start. He's from K's old home turf in Chicago. He could bring some buzz back to Duke and may help us with Randle, too.

Could he be our most important recruit since J Will? Kyrie could have been up there had he not gotten injured. If we miss on Parker, there's no hiding that it will be a major blow from a talent and a perception standpoint.

[UrinalCake]

Could he be our most important recruit since J Will?

At the time we recruited JWill, I didn't really think of him as a "must-get" because no one expected Avery to leave after one year. But it retrospect I get what you're saying, he was critical to our team's success and gave us the electric point guard we hadn't had in a while as well as a title.

I like what I'm hearing about J. Parker. Hard to know how critical he'll be at this point; if Murphy blows up this year then maybe we won't feel like we absolutely have to have him. Obviously we wouldn't turn down his talent, but I think there's a difference between a must-get and a would-like-to-get. I don't see why a 6'7 guy with a developed physique couldn't play the 4 in our system, plus he's got another year to grow.

[CDu]

At the time we recruited JWill, I didn't really think of him as a "must-get" because no one expected Avery to leave after one year. But it retrospect I get what you're saying, he was critical to our team's success and gave us the electric point guard we hadn't had in a while as well as a title.

I like what I'm hearing about J. Parker. Hard to know how critical he'll be at this point; if Murphy blows up this year then maybe we won't feel like we absolutely have to have him. Obviously we wouldn't turn down his talent, but I think there's a difference between a must-get and a would-like-to-get. I don't see why a 6'7 guy couldn't play the 4 in our system, plus he's got another year to grow.

Yeah, it is just hard to tell what will be a "must get." It may be that Cook and Thornton aren't ever able to make the jump and we really need a PG above all else. It could be that Hairston and Marshall aren't ready to be big-time post players and we need a big man more than anything else. It is possible that we really need an athletic PF. It is doubtful that we'll need a SG with Sulaimon and Jones, but we'll see. And maybe Gbinije and Murphy develop such that SF isn't a need position.

It's just hard to say what we'll need most a year from now. My guess is that we'll be strongest at SG and SF, but that's purely a guess.

[jipops]

At the time we recruited JWill, I didn't really think of him as a "must-get" because no one expected Avery to leave after one year.

Avery left after his sophomore year.

[roywhite]

Talent-wise, it sounds like both Bazz and Parker are total studs and impact players, regardless of position. With Bazz, though, if we didn't get him after UCLA took Larry Drew, had a disastrous year with empty stands, had Josh Smith play fat and disinterested, had the SI article, which, while not totally scandalous certainly didn't make Howland sound like a great leader or a likable guy, and a history of playing slow even with Westbrook, then we just weren't going to get him. Not suggesting that Bazz was insincere or played K, but he was probably leaning heavily to UCLA from the start.

By contrast, Parker has been said to be a Duke lean from the start. He's from K's old home turf in Chicago. He could bring some buzz back to Duke and may help us with Randle, too.

Could he be our most important recruit since J Will? Kyrie could have been up there had he not gotten injured. If we miss on Parker, there's no hiding that it will be a major blow from a talent and a perception standpoint.

Is a one-and-done recruit, any one, the most important to our program?

Austin Rivers helped the team this past year, but was he as important to Duke basketball as Jon Scheyer?

[Duvall]

Yeah, it is just hard to tell what will be a "must get." It may be that Cook and Thornton aren't ever able to make the jump and we really need a PG above all else. It could be that Hairston and Marshall aren't ready to be big-time post players and we need a big man more than anything else. It is possible that we really need an athletic PF. It is doubtful that we'll need a SG with Sulaimon and Jones, but we'll see. And maybe Gbinije and Murphy develop such that SF isn't a need position.

It's just hard to say what we'll need most a year from now. My guess is that we'll be strongest at SG and SF, but that's purely a guess.

A fair point, but it seems likely that Duke will need post players even if Hairston and Marshall are ready, for depth if nothing else.

[RepoMan]

See link:

http://espn.go.com/high-school/boys-basketball/story/_/id/7804376/jabari-parker-named-gatorade-national-boys-basketball-player-year

[dcdevil2009]

Is a one-and-done recruit, any one, the most important to our program?

Austin Rivers helped the team this past year, but was he as important to Duke basketball as Jon Scheyer?

Most important to the program? No. More important to Duke's success last year than Scheyer was in years one through three? Probably. Scheyer was an All American his senior year and runner up for ACC player of the year. If Austin had been either of those things, I'd argue that he would have been more important to the team than some of the upperclassman. I just think it's tough to say a one and done isn't as important as a four year player when the four year guy's best season is better than the one and done's only season. What if it were something like Dunleavy v. Brand, where one had a higher peak, but the other was there for longer? I'm not sure if I'd give Dunleavy the nod as more important just because he stayed longer.

Having said that, if Parker can come in and play at an AA level, like Kyrie would have been without getting hurt, then I can see him or any other one and done being the most important player to the program on that year's team. Weren't Kyrie, Austin, Deng, and Maggette all the most important recruits to the program from their respective classes? Neither of them were more important than Singler, Hill, Battier, etc., but I think their contributions during their relatively short time on campus were more important to the Duke program than the contributions of many good players over the course of their entire four year careers. I'm not saying we should indiscriminately recruit one and dones, but if a guy is talented enough to be one and done and has the character to fit into the Duke family, then I support Coach K going after him and don't think it's hyperbole to say that he is the most important recruit in his class for the Duke program.

[Kedsy]

Having said that, if Parker can come in and play at an AA level, like Kyrie would have been without getting hurt, then I can see him or any other one and done being the most important player to the program on that year's team.

I think you are talking apples and oranges. Sure, a one-and-done could be the best player on the team, but that's very different than "could he be our most important recruit since J Will?" The latter implies an importance to the program over time, as opposed to just helping the team win in one particular season.

[freshmanjs]

I think you are talking apples and oranges. Sure, a one-and-done could be the best player on the team, but that's very different than "could he be our most important recruit since J Will?" The latter implies an importance to the program over time, as opposed to just helping the team win in one particular season.

Jwil himself would not have been such an important recruit if he left after one year. If a Jwil twin existed today, maybe he'd also stay for 3 years, but I kind of doubt it.

[yancem]

Most important to the program? No. More important to Duke's success last year than Scheyer was in years one through three? Probably. Scheyer was an All American his senior year and runner up for ACC player of the year. If Austin had been either of those things, I'd argue that he would have been more important to the team than some of the upperclassman. I just think it's tough to say a one and done isn't as important as a four year player when the four year guy's best season is better than the one and done's only season. What if it were something like Dunleavy v. Brand, where one had a higher peak, but the other was there for longer? I'm not sure if I'd give Dunleavy the nod as more important just because he stayed longer.

Having said that, if Parker can come in and play at an AA level, like Kyrie would have been without getting hurt, then I can see him or any other one and done being the most important player to the program on that year's team. Weren't Kyrie, Austin, Deng, and Maggette all the most important recruits to the program from their respective classes? Neither of them were more important than Singler, Hill, Battier, etc., but I think their contributions during their relatively short time on campus were more important to the Duke program than the contributions of many good players over the course of their entire four year careers. I'm not saying we should indiscriminately recruit one and dones, but if a guy is talented enough to be one and done and has the character to fit into the Duke family, then I support Coach K going after him and don't think it's hyperbole to say that he is the most important recruit in his class for the Duke program.

There are other off the court considerations as well. Irving is likely to have a longer term impact on Duke's team/recruiting then say Scheyer because he is A) likely to be an nba all-star and B) is such a dynamic personality. With Irving coming back each summer to work on his degree, he will be around the current players and at certain points potential recruits. His presence can not only impact recruits but since he will also be working out, can lead to improvement of the current players. Similarly Smith (even though less successful in the nba) is the kind of player that will be helping Duke out for years to come even though he has graduated. Some players are like magnets and will help attract other high quality players. I don't know if Parker is that kind of personality but if his game is as good as advertised, it may also lead to others following his footsteps.

[dcdevil2009]

I think you are talking apples and oranges. Sure, a one-and-done could be the best player on the team, but that's very different than "could he be our most important recruit since J Will?" The latter implies an importance to the program over time, as opposed to just helping the team win in one particular season.

I wasn't trying to imply that a one and done can be our most important recruit since anyone else, so I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. No projected one and done is ever going to be as important to the program as J Will, but it would be just as incorrect to say that a projected three to four year player is going to be our most important recruit since J Will.

Instead, I was trying to make the point that a recruit's importance to the program should be measured relative to the alternatives. I don't see the choice as between Parker and Williams, but as between Parker and other potential 2012-2014 recruits. Essentially, is Duke as a program going to be better off with a year of Parker and whoever we'd have for the next two-three years than it would be with a lesser ranked 2013 recruit for four years? If we'll be better with Parker than he alternative, then I'd argue that Parker is more important. There are certainly other measures of importance to the program than on court success, as yancem pointed out, and three to four year players will have an advantage in that aspect, but on court success is very important as well.

[JNort]

Most recent "important" recruit to me was Kyrie because people were saying Coach was slipping as a recruiter and this and that. Then next thing you know coach K bagged the number 1 recruit and Kyrie was a tremendous talent and a great representative of the school and Duke family. It also showed that K can still get the top flight players and he is going nowhere just yet.

[dukedoc]

Jabari is one of those rare players for which his highlight reels may actually be pretty accurate representations of his day to day play.

Some new highlights (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j_XqVYIbOI)

[Class of '94]

See link:

http://espn.go.com/high-school/boys-basketball/story/_/id/7804376/jabari-parker-named-gatorade-national-boys-basketball-player-year

His personality, skill, versatility and talent remind me a lot fo Grant. It's not my intention to stereotype players; but he does not come across to me as a KY-Cal type guy even if he appears to have the talent and ability to be a one and done player; he really sounds like a Duke-type player. I have to think Duke can favorably sell him the long line of successful SF/wing players like Grant, Shane, Luo, Kyle and Mike D.

[dukedoc]

His personality, skill, versatility and talent remind me a lot fo Grant. It's not my intention to stereotype players; but he does not come across to me as a KY-Cal type guy even if he appears to have the talent and ability to be a one and done player; he really sounds like a Duke-type player. I have to think Duke can favorably sell him the long line of successful SF/wing players like Grant, Shane, Luo, Kyle and Mike D.

I agree. I think he has Duke written all over him. It's almost like he's unintentionally flashy. His play is just so superb that it can't help but be flashy, but his persona is otherwise uniquely mature and business-like. Not to say the KY guys aren't mature, but Jabari has a different quality to him. It's not surprising that two of the coaches he's seriously considering are K and Izzo.

[Class of '94]

His personality, skill, versatility and talent remind me a lot fo Grant. It's not my intention to stereotype players; but he does not come across to me as a KY-Cal type guy even if he appears to have the talent and ability to be a one and done player; he really sounds like a Duke-type player. I have to think Duke can favorably sell him the long line of successful SF/wing players like Grant, Shane, Luo, Kyle and Mike D.

I apologize for the misspelling of Luol. I couldn't edit my earlier post; but getting back to JP, it will be interesting to see how his recruiting will go. I remember reading somewhere that he plans to decide in the fall, which goes back to his what appears to be a very humble individual. I love the fact that it looks like he will not be dragging out his recuitment to next spring.

[gam7]

I apologize for the misspelling of Luol. I couldn't edit my earlier post; but getting back to JP, it will be interesting to see how his recruiting will go. I remember reading somewhere that he plans to decide in the fall, which goes back to his what appears to be a very humble individual. I love the fact that it looks like he will not be dragging out his recuitment to next spring.

From all indications, he does appear to be a good, humble kid, but I'm not sure his plans to decide in the Fall are an indication that he is good and humble. Just as a lot of these kids get too much criticism for doing things that make them look arrogant or like boneheads, I think at times they get too much credit for doing or saying things that others think make them seem like good, smart, well grounded kids.

[Class of '94]

From all indications, he does appear to be a good, humble kid, but I'm not sure his plans to decide in the Fall are an indication that he is good and humble. Just as a lot of these kids get too much criticism for doing things that make them look arrogant or like boneheads, I think at times they get too much credit for doing or saying things that others think make them seem like good, smart, well grounded kids.

True....But I was tryinig to contend that by JP making his college decision in the fall rather than next spring appears to show that he's not the type of person that wants drag things out or create some dramatic spot light for himself. If he holds true to what he has said, then he obviously is not worried about or looking to see who will stay or leave on any particular team; and his decision will be based on what he considers to be the best fit for him, regardless of who may or may not be at a particular school in the 2013-14 season. And this is by no means a slam or criticism of Bazz; I simply appreciated JP's willingness to make a decision sooner rather than later. Plus, it allows him to focus on enjoying all facets of his senior year by making a decision in the fall.

[rotogod00]

New Jabari Parker article from ESPN RecruitingNation (w a K reference to boot):

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/recruiting/basketball/mens/story/_/id/7964581/jabari-parker-no-1-espn-100-rare-recruit

[Ichabod Drain]

New Jabari Parker article from ESPN RecruitingNation (w a K reference to boot):

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/recruiting/basketball/mens/story/_/id/7964581/jabari-parker-no-1-espn-100-rare-recruit

He also mentions a connection with Johnny Dawkins. I would love for Parker to come to Duke but if he goes somehwere else it would be really cool to see Dawkins and Stanford get a big time recruit like Jabari (though i don't think it's very likely).

[roywhite]

Jabari Parker yet to narrow list (http://espn.go.com/chicago/story/_/id/8001443/the-nation-top-basketball-recruit-jabari-parker-chicago-less-media-exposure)


Sonny said all the attention has gotten to his son.

"It's overwhelming," Sonny said. "It could be a distraction sometimes because he still has to stay in the same routine. I think the distractions sometimes can get overwhelming.

"He doesn't like a lot of attention. He's managing.

[oldnavy]

He seems like the kind of kid that wants to be a kid and not an icon or a brand. That I like.... best of luck to him wherever he lands (hopefully at Duke)!

[budwom]

Seems to me an easy way to avoid all the nonsense on YouTube and Twitter (referring to the front page story) is to simply not go there.
Unplugging from all that crap has its benefits.

[UrinalCake]

Good for Parker and his parents for setting some limits on contact from coaches. I remember Battier did something similar - he told all of the coaches recruiting him that there were certain windows of time when they could contact him, and outside of those times he asked to have his privacy. Rick Pitino, then the coach of Kentucky, ignored this and called him during a dead period, and Shane promptly crossed them off of his list.

I can't imagine how much more overwhelming it is now with so many more forms of communication. And really, is there anything a coach can say over hundreds of text messages that would sway a kid's decision? Can't he get all the information he needs about a school during his official visit and a handful of additional conversations?

[DukieTiger]

Good for Parker and his parents for setting some limits on contact from coaches. I remember Battier did something similar - he told all of the coaches recruiting him that there were certain windows of time when they could contact him, and outside of those times he asked to have his privacy. Rick Pitino, then the coach of Kentucky, ignored this and called him during a dead period, and Shane promptly crossed them off of his list.

I can't imagine how much more overwhelming it is now with so many more forms of communication. And really, is there anything a coach can say over hundreds of text messages that would sway a kid's decision? Can't he get all the information he needs about a school during his official visit and a handful of additional conversations?

You'd think in-home visits, watching teams play, unofficial and/or official visits and maybe some other conversations via phone would be more than enough for a kid to decide once he was a Senior. Truth is, a lot of recruiting seems to be about keeping up with other schools in showing attention to the players: at best simply emphasizing that they are a priority; at worst, feeding the player's ego.

[UrinalCake]

Yeah, it seems like players are drawn to a.) the first coach that shows them interest, and b.) the coach that continues to show them the most interest. This doesn't make any sense to me, but then again I'm not a 17-year old kid with the world at his beck-and-call. Parker seems to be going about it the right way though.

[UrinalCake]

Parker cuts list (http://espn.go.com/chicago/ncb/story/_/id/8158431/jabari-parker-nation-top-basketball-recruit-considering-10-schools-possible-landing-spots) to 10 schools, including Duke. As stated previously, he hopes to make a decision in the fall, thus ensuring the length of this thread will fall well short of the John Wall and Shabazz Muhammad recruiting threads ;)

[FerryFor50]

Did not realize this, but Parker is Mormon.

That means he may have to take his sabbatical when he's 19....

Not that it matters. Just found it interesting.

[gam7]

Did not realize this, but Parker is Mormon.

That means he may have to take his sabbatical when he's 19....

Not that it matters. Just found it interesting.

Just about every article written about him discusses his Mormon faith at length. You might take a look at some of those links (including the Sports Illustrated cover story). He's talked about the possibility of his going on a mission, and he's undecided. Regardless, he'll almost certainly be one-and-done as a college basketball player.

[luvdahops]

Did not realize this, but Parker is Mormon.

That means he may have to take his sabbatical when he's 19....

Not that it matters. Just found it interesting.

Not an expert on Mormon matters, but from what I understand, there is no hard requirement that you do a mission, nor is there a specific age/window for doing it if you choose to. Most Mormons do choose to do a mission (although Steve Young and, I believe, Danny Ainge are among those who didn't), and doing so in their college years usually makes sense from a practical standpoint. That is not the case with someone who is on a professional sports fast track, though.

[muzikfrk75]

Illinois didn't make the list...but DePaul did?

[CDu]

Illinois didn't make the list...but DePaul did?

He's from Chicago. DePaul is the local school. Illinois is out in the middle of cornfields. For what it's worth, I don't expect either DePaul or Illinois to end up with him, so it doesn't really matter.

[FerryFor50]

Just about every article written about him discusses his Mormon faith at length. You might take a look at some of those links (including the Sports Illustrated cover story). He's talked about the possibility of his going on a mission, and he's undecided. Regardless, he'll almost certainly be one-and-done as a college basketball player.

Yea but has it been discussed in this thread? :)

[FerryFor50]

Not an expert on Mormon matters, but from what I understand, there is no hard requirement that you do a mission, nor is there a specific age/window for doing it if you choose to. Most Mormons do choose to do a mission (although Steve Young and, I believe, Danny Ainge are among those who didn't), and doing so in their college years usually makes sense from a practical standpoint. That is not the case with someone who is on a professional sports fast track, though.

Yea, that's why I said "may have to"...

I suspect he won't, but did read that he wasn't commenting, which I think is appropriate.

[FerryFor50]

Illinois didn't make the list...but DePaul did?

He ruled out Illinois after Bruce Weber got canned, likely.

[Newton_14]

Yea but has it been discussed in this thread? :)

Actually yeah. :) Dude you must have been sleeping under a rock on this one. :) Ha. Just giving you a hard time bud, so don't sweat it.

Back to being serious, Parker said he has not decided yet on the mission. It is a possibility, but so is being a one and done. He seems very serious about his faith, so I would not be shocked if he went on the mission, but I think the pull of the NBA will be strong as well. Especially if he plays his way into the Number 1 pick after his freshman year.

Either way I hope he comes. He is a great kid and appears to be the real deal on the court as well. He would be a great addition to the Duke family.

[FerryFor50]

Actually yeah. :) Dude you must have been sleeping under a rock on this one. :) Ha. Just giving you a hard time bud, so don't sweat it.

Back to being serious, Parker said he has not decided yet on the mission. It is a possibility, but so is being a one and done. He seems very serious about his faith, so I would not be shocked if he went on the mission, but I think the pull of the NBA will be strong as well. Especially if he plays his way into the Number 1 pick after his freshman year.

Either way I hope he comes. He is a great kid and appears to be the real deal on the court as well. He would be a great addition to the Duke family.

Dang, I even searched for "mormon" in the browser find. Must have been discussed as "mission" or something else.

My apologies! (back to my rock)

[devildeac]

Interesting read from the Raleigh N&O today:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/07/12/2195146/unc-duke-in-the-mix-again-this.html

Interesting quote from ol' roy when asked if he was afraid to recruit head-to-head against K:

“I went to freakin’ Ames, Iowa [to recruit Barnes] 11 times and his [butt] went twice,” Williams said. “… Don’t tell me I ain’t going to go head-to-head.”

11 trips to Ames? WTH? That's gotta be some kind of NCAA recruiting violation.

Wonder if any of his players learned to speak Swahili while he was absent so much...

:rolleyes:

[oldnavy]

Interesting read from the Raleigh N&O today:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/07/12/2195146/unc-duke-in-the-mix-again-this.html

Interesting quote from ol' roy when asked if he was afraid to recruit head-to-head against K:

“I went to freakin’ Ames, Iowa [to recruit Barnes] 11 times and his [butt] went twice,” Williams said. “… Don’t tell me I ain’t going to go head-to-head.”

11 trips to Ames? WTH? That's gotta be some kind of NCAA recruiting violation.

Wonder if any of his players learned to speak Swahili while he was absent so much...

:rolleyes:

Well I'd say that was about 9 visits too many. Glad you got the Black Falcon as it turned out. Congrats, you got one of the most overrated high school ballers to ever to play the game.

But if there wasn't any let's call it "concern vice fear" why make 11 trips if K is only going twice? Maybe fear is not the right word, but you sure were worried about something to make 11 trips to IOWA of all places.... now if he lived in Miami or Hawaii maybe I could see an alternative reasons, but Ames Iowa, 11 times.... yea, you were sweating it pretty hard.

[DrPhilTheThrill]

Any word on his decision to go on his mission or not?

[NSDukeFan]

Any word on his decision to go on his mission or not?

Do you mean his mission to lead Duke to a second consecutive national championship or a Mormon mission? I believe he hasn't decided about either yet.

[jaredv]

Did anyone notice in his tweet of schools, MSU was in lower case? Don't know about you, but that stood out to me.

[Class of '94]

Did anyone notice in his tweet of schools, MSU was in lower case? Don't know about you, but that stood out to me.

Just curious and do not mean any harm when I say this; but are you serious or just trying to be funny and sarcastic with your comment?

If you are serious, who does MSU being in lower case stand out to you?

[jaredv]

Just curious and do not mean any harm when I say this; but are you serious or just trying to be funny and sarcastic with your comment?

If you are serious, who does MSU being in lower case stand out to you?


Mostly being stupid....I just noticed that michigan state was the only school in lower case in his tweet. Just me being dumb and reading between the lines...?

[Class of '94]

Mostly being stupid....I just noticed that michigan state was the only school in lower case in his tweet. Just me being dumb and reading between the lines...?

Got it....You're not being stupid or dumb; you're just giving your thoughts on this. No worries......I'll leave it to the posters that are more in the know; but you could be right because it's hard to tell what kids his age are thinking. Personally, I don't think you can read too much into any HS kid's tweets unless he or she comes out and verbally commits to a school; and even then it could be a joke (or someone hacked that person's twitter :D). The good news is that we should know sooner rather than later where Mr Parker is going if he sticks to what he's said before and commits sometime in November/fall.

[BD80]

Minor injury, but will miss the rest of the AAU circuit:

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/16/nuts-no-jabari-parker-andrew-wiggins-peach-jam-showdown/related/

Article says he played through a stress fracture, tough kid.

I think he is taking the rest of the summer off so he can watch his future coach guide the Olympic team.

[licc85]

Not 100% how credible this is, but an article by Larry Vaught quotes Adam Zagoria (from zagsblog) saying:

"He(Parker) has strong relationships with coaches at Duke and Michigan State. Academics are very important to his family, and that helps Duke,” Zagoria said. “I have even had sources close to Calipari tell me that he believes Duke is the favorite. I honestly don’t think Jabari Parker goes to Kentucky(!!!!!!!!).”

http://www.centralkynews.com/amnews/sports/amn-vaughts-views-zagoria-sees-potential-for-huge-recruiting-class-for-kentucky-in-2013-20120731,0,7413728.story

I feel pretty awesome about this if Coach Cal thinks we're gonna get him :)

And even in the horrible scenario that we don't land him, I'd much rather it be MSU than UK. At least it won't become a complete disaster.

[BD80]

Not 100% how credible this is, but an article by Larry Vaught quotes Adam Zagoria (from zagsblog) saying:

"He(Parker) has strong relationships with coaches at Duke and Michigan State. Academics are very important to his family, and that helps Duke,” Zagoria said. “I have even had sources close to Calipari tell me that he believes Duke is the favorite. I honestly don’t think Jabari Parker goes to Kentucky(!!!!!!!!).”

http://www.centralkynews.com/amnews/sports/amn-vaughts-views-zagoria-sees-potential-for-huge-recruiting-class-for-kentucky-in-2013-20120731,0,7413728.story

I feel pretty awesome about this if Coach Cal thinks we're gonna get him :)

And even in the horrible scenario that we don't land him, I'd much rather it be MSU than UK. At least it won't become a complete disaster.

Its funny that I think more highly of a kid when it appears his choices are between coaches/schools that I respect. I never begrudged Greg Monroe his choice of Georgetown.

[UrinalCake]

Sounds like we're in excellent shape with him. I don't think it'd be a "horrible scenario" if we don't get him, as our 2013-2014 team is looking awesome already. But man, it's nice to dream.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Sounds like we're in excellent shape with him. I don't think it'd be a "horrible scenario" if we don't get him, as our 2013-2014 team is looking awesome already. But man, it's nice to dream.

Concur. Parker is an amazing player, but he is luxury for the 2013-2014 team with Hood, Murphy, and Jefferson already on board. Randle, on the other hand, fits a much more pressing need.

I understand that Parker is seen as the better player (barely, though. They are both so talented) but, gun to my head, I'd rather have Randle.

[-bdbd]

Concur. Parker is an amazing player, but he is luxury for the 2013-2014 team with Hood, Murphy, and Jefferson already on board. Randle, on the other hand, fits a much more pressing need.

I understand that Parker is seen as the better player (barely, though. They are both so talented) but, gun to my head, I'd rather have Randle.

Don't disagree. Parker is generally ranked number one, and Randle #2 (or 1a?). They are both very, very talented. And I really agree that we will have a huge interior need starting in 2013-14. BUT let's keep in mind that it would be WONDERFUL to just get EITHER of them. Nothing is guaranteed, for sure. Nice to be one of the very few who can actually be in the conversation with both of these studs. Special, talented kids, both.

:D

[gam7]

Concur. Parker is an amazing player, but he is luxury for the 2013-2014 team with Hood, Murphy, and Jefferson already on board. Randle, on the other hand, fits a much more pressing need.

I understand that Parker is seen as the better player (barely, though. They are both so talented) but, gun to my head, I'd rather have Randle.

Kind of weird that someone would put a gun to your head for an answer to that question.

It's not an either/or proposition with these guys, and both would start from Day 1. Hood is often listed as a guard and Jefferson is without question a front court player, so "luxury" is understating how much Parker would contribute to the program.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Kind of weird that someone would put a gun to your head for an answer to that question.

It's not an either/or proposition with these guys, and both would start from Day 1. Hood is often listed as a guard and Jefferson is without question a front court player, so "luxury" is understating how much Parker would contribute to the program.

I would have to disagree. Gun to my head (:)), it is an either/or proposition. These are the two highest profile players in the country for 2013. They will be option 1 wherever they go. You rarely see teams that have the consensus 1 and 2 player in the country (UK possibly being the exception). On top of that, while their games are different, there is slight overlap between the two (Parker could be a silky smooth 4 and Randle could be a super strong 3). IMO, if one commits to a school, I will happily put money that the other doesn't commit to that school (even with terrible odds). In most schools where there are great recruiting classes (like UCLA this year, Duke last year), there are rarely two players ranked in the two 5. And that makes sense - if you are Parker or Randle-type talent, don't you want to be the focus on the team? Why not get more exposure?

Secondly, we have the most number of players who can play the 3 in 2013-2014 (Hood, Jefferson, Murphy, Sulaimon). It is a position where there isn't true need. Also, we have no idea about Jefferson right now. He may have a skillset that fits the 4 better, but he can't play the 4 in the ACC right now due to weight issues. I suspect that everyone listed above (minus Hood, of course) will play some 3 this year.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

In most schools where there are great recruiting classes (like UCLA this year, Duke last year), there are rarely two players ranked in the two 5. And that makes sense - if you are Parker or Randle-type talent, don't you want to be the focus on the team? Why not get more exposure?
I know you said rarely, but it does happen...

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=jn-tophoopsclasses052909

Fab Five (1991) - 1, 3, 6, 9, 84
Killer B's (1997) - arguably... 1, 1, 1 (+ Avery)

I can't find accurate old rankings but I would not be surprised if there are other examples. It does happen. You never know.

[JasonEvans]

I know you said rarely, but it does happen...

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=jn-tophoopsclasses052909

Fab Five (1991) - 1, 3, 6, 9, 84
Killer B's (1997) - arguably... 1, 1, 1 (+ Avery)

I can't find accurate old rankings but I would not be surprised if there are other examples. It does happen. You never know.

2011 - Anthony Davis (1), MKG (3), Teague (7)
2009 -John Wall (2), Demarcus Cousins (3)
2006 - Brandon Wright (3), Ty Lawson (5), Wayne Ellington (8)
2002- Ray Felton (3), Rashad McCants (4), Sean May (9)

It happens a lot more often than you might think.

-Jason "plenty of folks had JWill and Boozer both in the top 5 in 1999 as well... and Dunleavy was regarded as top 10 by some too" Evans

[Class of '94]

2011 - Anthony Davis (1), MKG (3), Teague (7)
2009 -John Wall (2), Demarcus Cousins (3)
2006 - Brandon Wright (3), Ty Lawson (5), Wayne Ellington (8)
2002- Ray Felton (3), Rashad McCants (4), Sean May (9)

It happens a lot more often than you might think.

-Jason "plenty of folks had JWill and Boozer both in the top 5 in 1999 as well... and Dunleavy was regarded as top 10 by some too" Evans

But interestingly enought, only four of those examples (including Dr Rosenrosen's) won a NC. And except for the KY class with Davis, it took the other two teams three years of playing together to win a NC. Goes to show that even with a recuriting cllass having multiple players ranked in the top 10, NC is not guaranteed and it normally takes time to win one if you are fortunate to do so.

[Jderf]

But interestingly enought, only four of those examples (including Dr Rosenrosen's) won a NC. And except for the KY class with Davis, it took the other two teams three years of playing together to win a NC. Goes to show that even with a recuriting cllass having multiple players ranked in the top 10, NC is not guaranteed and it normally takes time to win one if you are fortunate to do so.

Which really just goes to show how unlikely winning a NC is in any given year.

[licc85]

I would have to disagree. Gun to my head (:)), it is an either/or proposition. These are the two highest profile players in the country for 2013. They will be option 1 wherever they go. You rarely see teams that have the consensus 1 and 2 player in the country (UK possibly being the exception). On top of that, while their games are different, there is slight overlap between the two (Parker could be a silky smooth 4 and Randle could be a super strong 3). IMO, if one commits to a school, I will happily put money that the other doesn't commit to that school (even with terrible odds). In most schools where there are great recruiting classes (like UCLA this year, Duke last year), there are rarely two players ranked in the two 5. And that makes sense - if you are Parker or Randle-type talent, don't you want to be the focus on the team? Why not get more exposure?

Secondly, we have the most number of players who can play the 3 in 2013-2014 (Hood, Jefferson, Murphy, Sulaimon). It is a position where there isn't true need. Also, we have no idea about Jefferson right now. He may have a skillset that fits the 4 better, but he can't play the 4 in the ACC right now due to weight issues. I suspect that everyone listed above (minus Hood, of course) will play some 3 this year.

Ehhh, I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with the idea that we need Randle over Parker. First of all, in my opinion Parker is a better player, no question. There's no 1 and 1a. (In fact, Scout.com already rates Andrew Harrison ahead of Randle) Parker is clearly #1 in my mind. He's got a complete offensive game, which is something you can't say for Randle. Most of all, his jumper is silky smooth, he's got guard-like handles, and he's got a pretty decent post up game. Before Nerlens Noel reclassified, he was still #2 behind Parker in the class of 2013. I mean, people are saying he's the best high school player since LeBron. That's pretty unbelievable praise. There's been some pretty dang good players since LeBron. (Anthony Davis, Kyrie Irving, Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, KEVIN DURANT?) If Parker is better than those guys, are you freakin kidding me? Sign me up NOW. If this guy is as good as people think he is, he's gonna do soooo much good for Duke when he's dominating in the NBA.

Second, Randle is not Elton Brand. I'm sorry, but every video that I've seen him in and every article I've read about him says little about his low post game. In fact, I don't think it really exists yet. I'm not saying he can't develop one, especially with his size and strength, but to me, he looks like he wants to be a perimeter player who takes people off the bounce, and when he starts playing with college level guards, his handle will not be strong enough to do this. His college coaches are going to want him to operate mainly down low.

Now don't get me wrong, I'd love to get Randle as well as Parker, but to me, Parker is far and away the superior player, and will help our team much more in the hunt for a national title. He's a go-to scorer . . he reminds me a little of Kevin Durant almost, but with a higher ceiling on the defensive end. So yeah, to me, I think Parker over Randle is a no-brainer, and I'm shocked that anyone would prefer to get Randle over him, especially considering that Parker is perfectly capable of playing the 4 in college.

Another thing, why does everyone keep saying Amile Jefferson can play the 3?? I've seen nothing that suggests he is capable of doing so. At least not yet. He played the 4 pretty much exclusively in high school. So now all of a sudden he has the perimeter skills to play the 3 in college? Amile is a natural 4 imo, similar to Lance Thomas, but with better offensive skills. He just needs to get stronger. With that in mind, I think Parker would fit in just fine with the roster we have projected for 2013-14. He is capable playing and defending 3 positions (2, 3, and 4), and with Parker, Hood, Dawkins, Sulaimon, Murphy, and Jones we would have the deadliest collection of wing players in the nation for sure. I think a lineup of Cook/Sulaimon/Murphy/Parker/Randle would be able to dominate like no team anyone's seen in recent memory, especially when you consider that we would also have Andre Dawkins, Rodney Hood, Amile Jefferson, Matt Jones, Tyler Thornton, Marshall Plumlee, and possibly another top recruit freshman sitting on the bench as well.

Would we be slightly undersized without Randle? Sure, I guess. We may have to start Marshall at the 5, which wouldn't be terrible. I think as a rebounder and post defender, he should be just fine, considering it would be his 3rd year in the program at that point. He wouldn't need to be relied on at all for offense, which I think is a good thing, but he should get a few put backs and alley oops every game anyway, which would be icing on the cake. My point is, it would still be a dominant team without Randle. We would still be really, really good without Parker, but it wouldn't be the same. Parker is special. He's a once in a generation type player that we would be blessed to have on our team. However, if we got both guys, it would be the most talented, deepest Duke team since 1999. There might be 5 NBA first rounders on that team, maybe 2 of the top 3 picks. I'm getting giddy just thinking about it.

[Starter]

I caught Parker on a bad day for him, when Findlay smothered him at Hoophall. He was obviously really good, but didn't strike me as like off the charts special. Like I said, I probably just caught him on a bad day, and it was the one time I'd seen him live. But the best since LeBron comments are hyperbole for sure. Off the top of my head, I could run off like 7 high school guys easily better than Parker since LeBron came out. (Our guy, Kyrie, is one of those.)

Mind you, I'm not saying Parker's not really good. He is, and Duke would be fortunate to have him. But LeBron James would have made virtually any team in America a Final Four team just by virtue of being there. I don't get the feeling Parker's like that. His game kind of reminds me of Luol Deng's -- which isn't a slight -- and I'd think his impact would be about the same; if you have a good team already, he'll put you over the top to elite. In that sense, the people who are saying they'd rather have Randle, I can't knock it. It'd be nice to see Duke again have a no-question elite big man. The last time they had one, or even a reasonable facsimile of one, they won a National Title. I trust they'll have wings/guard play, you know?

[licc85]

I caught Parker on a bad day for him, when Findlay smothered him at Hoophall. He was obviously really good, but didn't strike me as like off the charts special. Like I said, I probably just caught him on a bad day, and it was the one time I'd seen him live. But the best since LeBron comments are hyperbole for sure. Off the top of my head, I could run off like 7 high school guys easily better than Parker since LeBron came out. (Our guy, Kyrie, is one of those.)

Mind you, I'm not saying Parker's not really good. He is, and Duke would be fortunate to have him. But LeBron James would have made virtually any team in America a Final Four team just by virtue of being there. I don't get the feeling Parker's like that. His game kind of reminds me of Luol Deng's -- which isn't a slight -- and I'd think his impact would be about the same; if you have a good team already, he'll put you over the top to elite. In that sense, the people who are saying they'd rather have Randle, I can't knock it. It'd be nice to see Duke again have a no-question elite big man. The last time they had one, or even a reasonable facsimile of one, they won a National Title. I trust they'll have wings/guard play, you know?

I dunno . . . I mean, I media types like to use hyperbole to hype up their own stories, but I think these people actually believe he's the best since Lebron, I mean, I just googled Jabari, and here's a few articles that make the "best since Lebron" argument, including a Sports Illustrated article literally titled "Jabari Parker Is...THE BEST HIGH SCHOOL BASKETBALL PLAYER SINCE LEBRON JAMES"

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/prep-prep-rally/jabari-parker-top-recruit-since-lebron-james-isn-154124631.html

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1198498/index.htm

http://thegrio.com/2012/05/16/high-school-basketball-star-jabari-parker-touted-best-since-lebron/

http://www.themarsreel.com/2012/05/si-says-jabari-parker-is-the-best-prep-star-since-lebron-james/

You have to realize, this kid has been considered the #1 high school player in the nation 2 years in a row, and he's still got another year to go. Only 4 players have been named Gatorade player of the year before their senior year: LeBron James, Greg Oden, Brandon Knight, and Jabari Parker. His game isn't flashy, and I'm not sure when you saw him play, (maybe his injury was a factor?) but I think you might be underselling him. You just don't get this type of hype if you aren't the real deal.

Heck, even Coach K is on the hype train, check this out:

". . .in a recent conversation with Duke Coach Mike Krzyzewski, he was given some mighty praise by a man who knows a thing or two about hoops.
“He compared me to Kobe Bryant and he compared me to Grant Hill,” the 6-foot-7, 220-pound Parker said Wednesday at the Peach Jam."

I'll take a Kobe or Grant. Gimme that please.

[Greg_Newton]

“He compared me to Kobe Bryant and he compared me to Grant Hill,” the 6-foot-7, 220-pound Parker said Wednesday at the Peach Jam."

I'll take a Kobe or Grant.

He's also compared Julius Randle to Lebron James. Playing-style comparisons do not equal "as good as".

There's also the fact that Randle dominated their only head-to-head matchup this summer, with Matt Jones shutting down Parker.

Also, the fact that media outlets say something doesn't mean it's not hyperbole. In fact, it's usually the contrary...

In any case, both are great players and I'd love to have either one at the 4 alongside JR Cook and 2 of RS-SO Hood, RS-SO Murphy and SO Sulaimon on the wing. Zaf could play center and we'd still win 30+ games.

[licc85]

He's also compared Julius Randle to Lebron James. Playing-style comparisons do not equal "as good as".

There's also the fact that Randle dominated their only head-to-head matchup this summer, with Matt Jones shutting down Parker.

Also, the fact that media outlets say something doesn't mean it's not hyperbole. In fact, it's usually the contrary...

In any case, both are great players and I'd love to have either one at the 4 alongside JR Cook and 2 of RS-SO Hood, RS-SO Murphy and SO Sulaimon on the wing. Zaf could play center and we'd still win 30+ games.

Actually . . I think that's exactly what it means. I actually remember when he compared Randle to James, and it wasn't a straight up comparison, I believe he was only comparing their size and aggressiveness in attacking the paint off the dribble. Suggesting that Randle's ball skills even approach Lebron's is laughable.

You wouldn't compare two players directly with no stipulations (as K did with Jabari and Kobe/Grant) if they weren't in the same general stratosphere of talent. For example, how many players are compared to Michael Jordan? Probably only Kobe and LeBron. Beside how can you say playing style comparisons doesn't equal "as good as"? It's impossible to have a remotely similar playing style as those guys unless you are unbelievably talented. Nobody is comparing Harrison Barnes to Larry Bird (because he's nowhere near as talented), and I'd argue they have similar playing styles. On the other hand, people are having no problem comparing Anthony Davis to Bill Russell. Why? Because he's really really good.

Regardless, I'm just not as high on Randle as you guys are. Randle's absolute ceiling is Elton Brand, (Similar size, more athletic, but has a MUCH smaller wingspan and is much less skilled), while Jabari has the potential to be just as good as, or maybe better than Grant Hill.

[licc85]

Actually, I think a more accurate NBA comp for Jabari would be Paul Pierce. He's a more explosive, quicker version of Paul Pierce, or perhaps a slightly less athletic Grant Hill with a jumper.

[BD80]

... a slightly less athletic Grant Hill with a jumper.

You mean the current version of Grant rather than the college version?

[Ichabod Drain]

Actually, I think a more accurate NBA comp for Jabari would be Paul Pierce. He's a more explosive, quicker version of Paul Pierce, or perhaps a slightly less athletic Grant Hill with a jumper.

I see him more as a spicy fusion between J.R. Smith, Kurt Rambis, and a dash of Kyrie Irving. Wait... maybe i'm thinking of Marshall.

[Jderf]

It'd be nice to see Duke again have a no-question elite big man. The last time they had one, or even a reasonable facsimile of one, they won a National Title.

Mason Plumlee.


You just don't get this type of hype if you aren't the real deal.

Harrison Barnes.

[Starter]

Mason Plumlee.




Nah, you know that's not what I mean. Mason was a very good player last season, but I think it's a big stretch to call him elite. I'm talking about an Anthony Davis, Thomas Robinson type player, one that changes the scope of games and forces other teams to adjust. The much ballyhooed Brand-Boozer-Landlord trio, that's what I'm talking about from a Duke perspective. What we thought we'd get from McRoberts and Shav Randolph. For a while, Zoubek was playing at what I consider to be an elite level in terms of defense and rebounding, and I thought that team wouldn't have even sniffed the Final Four if he wasn't playing like that.

If Mason reaches that elite level next year, mind you, that'd be terrific. I personally just think he'll probably add a few more wrinkles to his already very good arsenal. But I can't see him completely and totally dominating games when he hasn't really shown that so far.




You have to realize, this kid has been considered the #1 high school player in the nation 2 years in a row, and he's still got another year to go. Only 4 players have been named Gatorade player of the year before their senior year: LeBron James, Greg Oden, Brandon Knight (wtf?), and Jabari Parker. His game isn't flashy, and I'm not sure when you saw him play, (maybe his injury was a factor?) but I think you might be underselling him. You just don't get this type of hype if you aren't the real deal.


I saw him in January, his foot was presumably fine, I think? Like I said, I caught him on a bad day. But I mean, LeBron James didn't have bad days in high school. Doesn't have many now. I acknowledge that Parker is obviously a very good player based on some of the online things I've seen, I'm not saying he isn't.

I'm just saying, is Jabari a better high school player than Dwight Howard, Durant, Rose or Kyrie? How about Oden? How about Nerlens Noel, who I thought was incredible when I saw him? Anthony Davis? Wall? I saw Michael Kidd-Gilchrist play a whole lot in person, and he was amazing. Kevin Love? Heck, Andrew Wiggins? Shabazz? That guy was an absolute force when I saw him in the same tournament. All I'm saying is, you call a guy the best since LeBron, you're going to have guys like me being skeptical, especially when I've seen some very, very good high school players. He might be better than all of them were, but if you give me the side of "Not the best guy since LeBron," I like my odds there, especially having seen him live and not been blown away. If he's in the Top 10 since LeBron, of course, and he has a pretty decent chance at that, I think that's nothing to sneeze at.

[Kedsy]

It'd be nice to see Duke again have a no-question elite big man. The last time they had one, or even a reasonable facsimile of one, they won a National Title.

Are you calling Brian Zoubek a reasonable facsimile of an elite big man? That's certainly not what people thought at the time. And despite Z's incredible defense, screen-setting, and offensive rebounding in 2010, I'd argue Mason last year was more of an "elite big man" than Z ever was.

If you're not talking about Zoubek, then I don't understand your statement. We had Carlos Boozer in 2002 and Shelden Williams from 2003 to 2006, plus Josh McRoberts in 2007-2008, who coming out of high school was considered at least as elite as Julius Randle is now.

EDIT: I see you clarified in your latest post. Still, I disagree. Zoubek played great down the stretch in 2010. That didn't make him an "elite big man" in the sense we're talking about now. Also, the ballyhooed Brand-Boozer-Landlord trio played 9 seasons for us and won one championship (although they did make 3 Final Fours). And in that one championship, Boozer was the 3rd or maybe even 4th option on offense (and wasn't that great a defender, either).


Nobody is comparing Harrison Barnes to Larry Bird (because he's nowhere near as talented), and I'd argue they have similar playing styles.

In what way is Barnes's playing style like Bird's? Larry Bird was an incredible passer and great defender who made his teammates better and could score any way he pleased. His best attributes were his court vision and uncanny understanding of the game. So far, at least, Barnes is basically a good shooter. I'd argue people don't make that comparison because the players are nothing alike.

[Jderf]

Nah, you know that's not what I mean. Mason was a very good player last season, but I think it's a big stretch to call him elite. I'm talking about an Anthony Davis, Thomas Robinson type player, one that changes the scope of games and forces other teams to adjust. The much ballyhooed Brand-Boozer-Landlord trio, that's what I'm talking about from a Duke perspective. What we thought we'd get from McRoberts and Shav Randolph. For a while, Zoubek was playing at what I consider to be an elite level in terms of defense and rebounding, and I thought that team wouldn't have even sniffed the Final Four if he wasn't playing like that.

If Mason reaches that elite level next year, mind you, that'd be terrific. I personally just think he'll probably add a few more wrinkles to his already very good arsenal. But I can't see him completely and totally dominating games when he hasn't really shown that so far.

Yeah, I know, I know. It was a very simplistic response, and I was mostly just having a little fun. Also I was definitely stating it in the forward-looking sense, being wildly hopeful about next season. My refrain for this off-season:

Get. Mason. The ball.

[Starter]

Are you calling Brian Zoubek a reasonable facsimile of an elite big man? That's certainly not what people thought at the time. And despite Z's incredible defense, screen-setting, and offensive rebounding in 2010, I'd argue Mason last year was more of an "elite big man" than Z ever was.

If you're not talking about Zoubek, then I don't understand your statement. We had Carlos Boozer in 2002 and Shelden Williams from 2003 to 2006, plus Josh McRoberts in 2007-2008, who coming out of high school was considered at least as elite as Julius Randle is now.


From Valentine's Day through April 2, Zoubek absolutely played at an elite level. I thought that at the time; I couldn't have been alone? I'd take that version of Zoubek over last year's version of Mason Plumlee, hands-down. And no need to send me scoring statistics; I'm talking about influence over games and importance to a team's success, juxtaposed with how much success that team had.

McRoberts in no way was an elite college player, though you're obviously right that he was considered elite coming out of high school. So was Shav. Obviously, I have higher hopes for Randle based on what I've seen and heard, is what I'm saying. (Shelden Williams was indeed elite in college, but it's been six years.)

[Class of '94]

Here is the link: http://espn.go.com/chicago/story/_/id/8228055/top-recruit-jabari-parker-not-commit-spring .

Don't know if this bodes well or bad for any team although my instincts tell me that it favors teams like KY, Kansas, or other school that might not be as a high on his favorites list (assuming one believes that Duke and MSU are in the lead).

[Kedsy]

From Valentine's Day through April 2, Zoubek absolutely played at an elite level. I thought that at the time; I couldn't have been alone? I'd take that version of Zoubek over last year's version of Mason Plumlee, hands-down. And no need to send me scoring statistics; I'm talking about influence over games and importance to a team's success, juxtaposed with how much success that team had.

McRoberts in no way was an elite college player, though you're obviously right that he was considered elite coming out of high school. So was Shav. Obviously, I have higher hopes for Randle based on what I've seen and heard, is what I'm saying. (Shelden Williams was indeed elite in college, but it's been six years.)

I'm not putting Zoubek down. I was one of his biggest boosters, even before Valentine's day. Yes, he played great down the stretch in 2010. Yes, we would not have made the Final Four without his fabulous play. But I think when people talk about "elite" big men they're talking about a more rounded, offensively dominant type of player than Z was ever capable of being. Certainly Julius Randle is not going to play like Zoubek.

Also, it's easy to say McRoberts wasn't an elite college player, because he wasn't. But at the same stage of his career as Julius Randle is now, he was at least as elite as Randle, if not a bit more.

[Starter]

I'm not putting Zoubek down. I was one of his biggest boosters, even before Valentine's day. Yes, he played great down the stretch in 2010. Yes, we would not have made the Final Four without his fabulous play. But I think when people talk about "elite" big men they're talking about a more rounded, offensively dominant type of player than Z was ever capable of being. Certainly Julius Randle is not going to play like Zoubek.

Also, it's easy to say McRoberts wasn't an elite college player, because he wasn't. But at the same stage of his career as Julius Randle is now, he was at least as elite as Randle, if not a bit more.

All fair points, and I can't pretend my affinity for his game didn't mostly begin on Valentine's Day! So I'll give you props there. I thought Zoubek was in rarefied air for the college game with his defense and rebounding, sort of like a very, very poor man's Bill Russell. (He was the best offensive rebounder in the country, very efficient on offense.) But no, you're absolutely right, definitely not elite in the conventional sense, I get the distinction.

You're 100 percent right about McRoberts. Even after his freshman year at Duke, people thought he'd be a world beater. I'll hold off before putting Randle in the Hall of Fame. But I do think he'll be a stud, for what it's worth, would love to have him.

[UrinalCake]

If we don't get Randle or any other big men, our 4-5 rotation will consist of Marshall Plumlee and a bunch of guys who are for now defined as 3/4's (Jefferson, Murphy, Hairston, possibly Hood but probably not). Even if you presume that Plumlee develops into a legit starting center and Jefferson is able to play the 4 full-time, that's still a pretty shallow frontcourt. This is why people (myself included) perceive Randall as being more important than Parker. Parker may be the better player, the extent to which is debatable, but we just don't have any inside scoring and very little inside depth and we've seen that tune played out so many times before.

It's kind of similar to the argument that Tony Parker would have been a bigger get than Shabazz Muhammad (this was before we knew that Mason was coming back). Sorry to tear open that wound...

[Starter]

It's kind of similar to the argument that Tony Parker would have been a bigger get than Shabazz Muhammad (this was before we knew that Mason was coming back). Sorry to tear open that wound...

If this matters, and it very well might not, I thought Tony Parker was extremely underwhelming when I saw him live, and that he needed a lot of work to get to where he needs to be as a Division 1 athlete. (This, also, was in January.) Jabari at least scored 24 points when I saw him, though most of those came in garbage time. Again, he was good, I was just holding him up to the standard everyone else had set, with the unique backstory and whatnot.

[NSDukeFan]

If we don't get Randle or any other big men, our 4-5 rotation will consist of Marshall Plumlee and a bunch of guys who are for now defined as 3/4's (Jefferson, Murphy, Hairston, possibly Hood but probably not). Even if you presume that Plumlee develops into a legit starting center and Jefferson is able to play the 4 full-time, that's still a pretty shallow frontcourt. This is why people (myself included) perceive Randall as being more important than Parker. Parker may be the better player, the extent to which is debatable, but we just don't have any inside scoring and very little inside depth and we've seen that tune played out so many times before.

It's kind of similar to the argument that Tony Parker would have been a bigger get than Shabazz Muhammad (this was before we knew that Mason was coming back). Sorry to tear open that wound...

I don't really disagree with you, but I do presume that Plumlee will develop into a legit center by 2013-14 (his third year at Duke) and that Jefferson, Hairston and Murphy will be solid at the 4 and 5. I certainly hope that Duke can get Randle, but if the team instead lands Parker (Jabari that is), I will not be disappointed.

With Amile and Rodney having committed, I don't feel any kind of wound with respect to Tony Parker and Shabazz. I think the staff did the right thing by staying in both recruitments until the end, but Duke will be just fine with Amile (who is rated higher, #21 to #24 in RSCI, than T. Parker) and Hood (almost as good a prospect as Shabazz.)

I am optimistic about the front court players the team already has and their development as well as the possibility of Duke landing another front court player should Randle decide to go somewhere else.

[licc85]

In what way is Barnes's playing style like Bird's? Larry Bird was an incredible passer and great defender who made his teammates better and could score any way he pleased. His best attributes were his court vision and uncanny understanding of the game. So far, at least, Barnes is basically a good shooter. I'd argue people don't make that comparison because the players are nothing alike.


That's exactly my point . . . you can't just compare a player to a legendary player based on the fact that a few aspects of their games are similar. I was waiting on someone to jump on this. Barnes has a good jumper, hes a pretty smart player, and he's about 6'8". . that's basically all I based that comparison on. My point was, you dont compare jabari parker to kobe bryant and grant hill unless hes REALLY freakin good. And I didn't make that comparison, Coach K did.

[dcar1985]

I don't really disagree with you, but I do presume that Plumlee will develop into a legit center by 2013-14 (his third year at Duke) and that Jefferson, Hairston and Murphy will be solid at the 4 and 5. I certainly hope that Duke can get Randle, but if the team instead lands Parker (Jabari that is), I will not be disappointed.

With Amile and Rodney having committed, I don't feel any kind of wound with respect to Tony Parker and Shabazz. I think the staff did the right thing by staying in both recruitments until the end, but Duke will be just fine with Amile (who is rated higher, #21 to #24 in RSCI, than T. Parker) and Hood (almost as good a prospect as Shabazz.)

I am optimistic about the front court players the team already has and their development as well as the possibility of Duke landing another front court player should Randle decide to go somewhere else.


I know its great to say that because he's at Duke but Hood is/was nowhere near the prospect that Shabazz was/is. Hood was rated #27 to Shabazz' #1 rate...Hood had a decent year a Miss St, averaged 10 pts a game, Shabazz is expect to change the direction of UCLA's program next year. I think Hood will be pretty good for us when he finally suits up but he's not Shabazz

[dcar1985]

FWIW Give me Jabari and then go after a guy like Austin Nichols who would give us another post option...everything I've heard says UK leads for Randle right now plus Randle isn't that elite big man we're looking for. The comparisons to Lebron are based off playing style, I've seen him play a few times now and he's always played point-forward, handled the ball a lot, iso'd his defender and basically went one on one to finish or find an open man. We wouldn't need that from Randle. I haven't seen much if any desire to work down on the low block. I remember people saying we stopped pursuing Alex Poythress b/c he wanted to strictly play the perimeter, are we sure thats not the case with Randle?

[NSDukeFan]

I know its great to say that because he's at Duke but Hood is/was nowhere near the prospect that Shabazz was/is. Hood was rated #27 to Shabazz' #1 rate...Hood had a decent year a Miss St, averaged 10 pts a game, Shabazz is expect to change the direction of UCLA's program next year. I think Hood will be pretty good for us when he finally suits up but he's not Shabazz

I was basing my comment on some draft prediction sites that had predicted Hood as a lottery pick which, admittedly, is probably pretty flimsy evidence at this point. At least he is also a lefty?

[jimsumner]

There certainly is some wiggle room in the word "elite."

But in 2006, Duke started a 6-9, 240-pound senior center. This player averaged 18.8 points, 10.7 rebounds and 3.8 blocks per game, while shooting .577 from the field and .744 from the line.

In doing so, he became Duke's career leader in rebounds and blocked shots. And he had his jersey retired.

He was first-team All-America for a team that lost only four times. Unfortunately, one of those losses was in the NCAAs. So, Duke did not win an NCAA title the last time it had an undisputably elite big man.

But I would be very surprised if a a freshman Randle equals what the senior Shelden Williams accomplished.

[Starter]

He was first-team All-America for a team that lost only four times. Unfortunately, one of those losses was in the NCAAs. So, Duke did not win an NCAA title the last time it had an undisputably elite big man.

But I would be very surprised if a a freshman Randle equals what the senior Shelden Williams accomplished.

Yeah, I explained what I was saying above, in case you missed it; I asserted that Zoubek was playing at an elite level during the final month and a half of the 2010 title run. I still believe that particular version of Zoubek was far and away better than anything else we've had in the pivot besides Williams in the decade since Carlos Boozer left.

As for Randle equaling a senior Shelden Williams, that would very pleasantly surprise me as well. If he showed up and provided some sort of similar impact to what the relatively unrefined but still potent freshman or sophomore versions of Shelden offered, I'd be fine with that.

[gumbomoop]

I do presume that Plumlee will develop into a legit center by 2013-14 (his third year at Duke) and that Jefferson, Hairston and Murphy will be solid at the 4 and 5.

With Amile and Rodney having committed, I don't feel any kind of wound with respect to Tony Parker and Shabazz.

I am optimistic about the front court players the team already has and their development as well as the possibility of Duke landing another front court player should Randle decide to go somewhere else.

Having excised the overenthusiastic comparison of Hood to Muhammad, I agree with all the rest of NSDukeFan's points here. I, too, presume that we'll be almost as pleased with Marshall by 2013-'14 as K will be, and possibly Marshall himself. [Unless, that is, Marshall needles Mason so mercilessly that Mason loses it, punches out Marshall severely, leading to Marshall missing the 2013-'14 season.]

Jefferson is commonly thought to be [1] a 4-who-only-looks-like-a-3, [2] only temporarily, because necessarily, a backup 3 for 2012-'13, and [3] a major-minute guy at the 4 by 2013-'14. Murphy is big and versatile enough to play some 4. Hairston is pretty clearly a 4, and will be an experienced senior by 2013-'14.

The obvious concern would be the 5. I'm perhaps the only person [although one might parse NSDukeFan's "solid" as including Hairston for some minutes at the 5] who would be perfectly comfortable with Marshall and an undersized Hairston manning the 5 in 2013-'14; obviously another frontcourt frosh would help. But absent a highly rated such frontcourt frosh, it strikes me that Hairston might simply be the logical backup 5 anyway, based on experience and strength.

Even taking the worst-case, if highly, highly unlikely, scenario -- absolutely no more recruits from the HS class of 2013 -- Duke would have enough talent in 2013-'14 to be preseason top 10.

PG - Cook, Thornton, Sulaimon in a pinch
Wing SG - Dawkins, Hood, Sulaimon, Jones
Wing SF - Murphy, Hood, Jones, in a pinch
PF - Jefferson, Hairston, Murphy in a pinch
C - Plumlee, Hairston, Jefferson in a pinch

We're in high cotton, pretty much every season. Otherwise, we wouldn't be the Entitled. But we are the Entitled. We don't deserve it, but then neither do UNC and UK, curses upon them.

[NSDukeFan]

Having excised the overenthusiastic comparison of Hood to Muhammad, I agree with all the rest of NSDukeFan's points here. I, too, presume that we'll be almost as pleased with Marshall by 2013-'14 as K will be, and possibly Marshall himself. [Unless, that is, Marshall needles Mason so mercilessly that Mason loses it, punches out Marshall severely, leading to Marshall missing the 2013-'14 season.]

Jefferson is commonly thought to be [1] a 4-who-only-looks-like-a-3, [2] only temporarily, because necessarily, a backup 3 for 2012-'13, and [3] a major-minute guy at the 4 by 2013-'14. Murphy is big and versatile enough to play some 4. Hairston is pretty clearly a 4, and will be an experienced senior by 2013-'14.

The obvious concern would be the 5. I'm perhaps the only person [although one might parse NSDukeFan's "solid" as including Hairston for some minutes at the 5] who would be perfectly comfortable with Marshall and an undersized Hairston manning the 5 in 2013-'14; obviously another frontcourt frosh would help. But absent a highly rated such frontcourt frosh, it strikes me that Hairston might simply be the logical backup 5 anyway, based on experience and strength.

Even taking the worst-case, if highly, highly unlikely, scenario -- absolutely no more recruits from the HS class of 2013 -- Duke would have enough talent in 2013-'14 to be preseason top 10.

PG - Cook, Thornton, Sulaimon in a pinch
Wing SG - Dawkins, Hood, Sulaimon, Jones
Wing SF - Murphy, Hood, Jones, in a pinch
PF - Jefferson, Hairston, Murphy in a pinch
C - Plumlee, Hairston, Jefferson in a pinch

We're in high cotton, pretty much every season. Otherwise, we wouldn't be the Entitled. But we are the Entitled. We don't deserve it, but then neither do UNC and UK, curses upon them.

You can count me in as perfectly comfortable with redshirt sophomore Marshall and a senior Hairston manning the 5 in 2013-14. (I am optimistically hoping for plenty of improvement from both of them before then.)

I also agree that the line-ups you have shown in a 'worst-case' scenario constitutes a top 10 team. A couple minor quibbles I might have is that I would expect Murphy to perhaps be playing a big forward spot more than in a pinch and if Dawkins is playing (hopefully), I would expect him to get some minutes as the bigger wing, with a PG + Sulaimon.

I am excited for 2013-14, but am really looking forward to this year as well. Things are definitely looking good for the near future.

[jimsumner]

Having excised the overenthusiastic comparison of Hood to Muhammad, I agree with all the rest of NSDukeFan's points here. I, too, presume that we'll be almost as pleased with Marshall by 2013-'14 as K will be, and possibly Marshall himself. [Unless, that is, Marshall needles Mason so mercilessly that Mason loses it, punches out Marshall severely, leading to Marshall missing the 2013-'14 season.]

Jefferson is commonly thought to be [1] a 4-who-only-looks-like-a-3, [2] only temporarily, because necessarily, a backup 3 for 2012-'13, and [3] a major-minute guy at the 4 by 2013-'14. Murphy is big and versatile enough to play some 4. Hairston is pretty clearly a 4, and will be an experienced senior by 2013-'14.

The obvious concern would be the 5. I'm perhaps the only person [although one might parse NSDukeFan's "solid" as including Hairston for some minutes at the 5] who would be perfectly comfortable with Marshall and an undersized Hairston manning the 5 in 2013-'14; obviously another frontcourt frosh would help. But absent a highly rated such frontcourt frosh, it strikes me that Hairston might simply be the logical backup 5 anyway, based on experience and strength.

Even taking the worst-case, if highly, highly unlikely, scenario -- absolutely no more recruits from the HS class of 2013 -- Duke would have enough talent in 2013-'14 to be preseason top 10.

PG - Cook, Thornton, Sulaimon in a pinch
Wing SG - Dawkins, Hood, Sulaimon, Jones
Wing SF - Murphy, Hood, Jones, in a pinch
PF - Jefferson, Hairston, Murphy in a pinch
C - Plumlee, Hairston, Jefferson in a pinch

We're in high cotton, pretty much every season. Otherwise, we wouldn't be the Entitled. But we are the Entitled. We don't deserve it, but then neither do UNC and UK, curses upon them.

I believe this depth chart way under-values Sulaimon.

[gumbomoop]

I believe this depth chart way under-values Sulaimon.

You're right, my bad. I didn't mean Sulaimon wouldn't start in 2013-'14, though I'm not absolutely certain he will. It's all waaay in the future, but I assume Sulaimon wouldn't start ahead of Cook at PG. Nor do I assume - even in this clearly worst-case-depth-wise scenario - that K will start a 3-guard lineup, though it seems likely that in this scenario he would have to go with 3-guards at times.

So, I guess Sulaimon and Murphy might well start at the wings, with Hood and Dawkins off the bench. But others might guess - in this worst-case-anyway-guessing-game - that Hood might start, with several super-6th-men off the bench [Sulaimon, Dawkins, Jefferson, even Thornton].

While my list, again, looks like it undervalues Sulaimon, let me be clear that whether he starts [probably] or not [maybe], I fully agree with your point that he will play a major role, and major minutes.

ETA -- The way the list looks: I'd have no problem listing Sulaimon first at Wing SG. That would appear to value his likely contribution more. But it wouldn't actually change the substance of my view, which is that in this [silly, actually] unlikely scenario, 9 guys will be fully in the rotation [Jones, don't know]. And Sulaimon might well play 30 mpg.

[g-money]

Here is the link: http://espn.go.com/chicago/story/_/id/8228055/top-recruit-jabari-parker-not-commit-spring .

Don't know if this bodes well or bad for any team although my instincts tell me that it favors teams like KY, Kansas, or other school that might not be as a high on his favorites list (assuming one believes that Duke and MSU are in the lead).

Great. Guess that means I needn't check this thread again until February.

Try not to spray too much mud with those spinning wheels, folks. :p

[Starter]

Great. Guess that means I needn't check this thread again until February.

Try not to spray too much mud with those spinning wheels, folks. :p

Nonsense! I'm already practicing to analyze his body language, attire and facial expressions when he comes to watch Duke-Carolina.

[JasonEvans]

If Mason reaches that elite level next year, mind you, that'd be terrific. I personally just think he'll probably add a few more wrinkles to his already very good arsenal. But I can't see him completely and totally dominating games when he hasn't really shown that so far.

Bolding by me.

Yeah, what would be great would be to see Mason do something like going for 17pts and 12rebs in a really big game against one of the elite big men in the country. *

Or maybe if he could do something dominant like go for 23 and 12 in an ACC road game. **

It would be great if we could count on him to do something like 16 and 13 or 15 and 17 in nationally televised games against big time non-conference opponents. ***

It would be really nice if we could get a line like 19 and 12 out of him in an NCAA tourney game too. ****

*- like he did against Kansas in the Maui championship versus Thomas Robinson
**- like he did at Maryland
***- like he did at Temple and versus St John's
****- like he did against Lehigh

Ok, sarcasm mode off.

Folks, I don't mean to divert a threat about Jabari Parker (don't even get me started on the absurdity of the "luxury recruit" comment) but Mason deserves more love. I watched him in person at some Duke games last year and he was working his tail off for position and not getting rewarded very much by our guards. I think that if we used him more, as I expect we will this coming season, he would consistently put up the kind of dominating numbers he showed us glimpses of in many games last year.

--Jason "important caveat about this post-- I generally agree with pretty much everything Starter says. This post is a real outlier" Evans

[JasonEvans]

That's exactly my point . . . you can't just compare a player to a legendary player based on the fact that a few aspects of their games are similar. I was waiting on someone to jump on this. Barnes has a good jumper, hes a pretty smart player, and he's about 6'8". . that's basically all I based that comparison on. My point was, you dont compare jabari parker to kobe bryant and grant hill unless hes REALLY freakin good. And I didn't make that comparison, Coach K did.

Worth noting-- K did not publicly make this comparison (he is not allowed to comment in public about a recruit). He made it when talking to Jabari. In that context, it must be viewed as part of K's "recruiting pitch" to the kid. "Come here and I could see you developing into another Grant Hill or, another kid who really wanted to play for me and who I have enjoyed coaching on the Olympic team, Kobe Bryant."

Now, I don't doubt that Jabari is a heck of a good ballplayer and I am not saying that K way lying or exaggerating when he made those comparisons to the kid. But, I doubt anyone pitches an elite prospect by saying, "Come here and you could be another Daniel Ewing or Chris Carrawell." Dan and Chris both had fine careers and I am huge fans of what they did here, but when you are pitching a top tier recruit you are talking about making them into an NBA star and dangling images of lottery pick/max contract money in front of them.

So, just sayin', maybe we take the Grant and Kobe comparisons with a tiny grain of salt.

--Jason "then again, from what I have heard/read/youtube'd comparing Jabari to future NBA HOFamers is not at all unreasonable" Evans

[jimsumner]

Nonsense! I'm already practicing to analyze his body language, attire and facial expressions when he comes to watch Duke-Carolina.

Oh, that's so basic.

We need to start analyzing his tweets. That's where the meat it.

Maybe we can get Ryan Seacrest to help us out.

[lotusland]

Are you calling Brian Zoubek a reasonable facsimile of an elite big man? That's certainly not what people thought at the time. And despite Z's incredible defense, screen-setting, and offensive rebounding in 2010, I'd argue Mason last year was more of an "elite big man" than Z ever was.

If you're not talking about Zoubek, then I don't understand your statement. We had Carlos Boozer in 2002 and Shelden Williams from 2003 to 2006, plus Josh McRoberts in 2007-2008, who coming out of high school was considered at least as elite as Julius Randle is now.

EDIT: I see you clarified in your latest post. Still, I disagree. Zoubek played great down the stretch in 2010. That didn't make him an "elite big man" in the sense we're talking about now. Also, the ballyhooed Brand-Boozer-Landlord trio played 9 seasons for us and won one championship (although they did make 3 Final Fours). And in that one championship, Boozer was the 3rd or maybe even 4th option on offense (and wasn't that great a defender, either).



In what way is Barnes's playing style like Bird's? Larry Bird was an incredible passer and great defender who made his teammates better and could score any way he pleased. His best attributes were his court vision and uncanny understanding of the game. So far, at least, Barnes is basically a good shooter. I'd argue people don't make that comparison because the players are nothing alike.
This nit picking a little but Bird was an average defender at best. He compensated pretty well for his lack of quickness by rebounding well and playing the passing lanes but he had problems staying with athletic small forwards. I remember McHale would actually guard Worthy and Bird would play off Perkins when they played the Lakers.

[Kedsy]

But I do think he'll be a stud, for what it's worth, would love to have him.

For what it's worth, me too. I think the most important thing we can do at this point for 2013-14 is recruit another player who can defend the 5 and contribute good minutes there. If Randle can do that and Parker can't, then I think Randle's the more important recruit. If neither (or both) can do that, then I'll take either (or both) and gut it out at the 5 with Marshall and whoever's able to back him up.

[Kedsy]

This nit picking a little but Bird was an average defender at best. He compensated pretty well for his lack of quickness by rebounding well and playing the passing lanes but he had problems staying with athletic small forwards. I remember McHale would actually guard Worthy and Bird would play off Perkins when they played the Lakers.

I agree that Bird lacked defensive quickness, but I always thought he most made up for it with his superior court savvy. I almost didn't mention his defense in my original post, but to me Bird was a better defender than Barnes will ever be, so I went with it. Having said that, I will accept your nit and apologize for overstating Bird's defensive prowess.

To insert a modicum of thread relevance, I hope and believe that Jabari Parker could be a much better defender than either of them.

[magjayran]

I agree that Bird lacked defensive quickness, but I always thought he most made up for it with his superior court savvy. I almost didn't mention his defense in my original post, but to me Bird was a better defender than Barnes will ever be, so I went with it. Having said that, I will accept your nit and apologize for overstating Bird's defensive prowess.

To insert a modicum of thread relevance, I hope and believe that Jabari Parker could be a much better defender than either of them.

I think it was Charles Barkley who said something to the effect of, "I always like playing against Larry because then I knew I wouldn't be the worst defender on the floor."

Bird did make some memorable plays on the defensive end but I don't see any reason why Barnes couldn't end up being better.

[licc85]

Another reason I think Jabari is such an important recruit is for the marketing potential he could swing for Duke Basketball. I don't think it's any stretch to say that he could be the most marketable Duke player Since Grant Hill. Everything you hear about him screams "likeable." He's humble, he's a hard worker, a good student, a devout mormon, and generally a fun loving kid who doesn't particularly care for the spotlight. Oh, and he's also REALLY good at basketball. He's like a mormon Derrick Rose.

I mean, don't get me wrong, my favorite player in the NBA is Kyrie Irving, and I don't think there's a more likable player in the league right now, but Kyrie only only played 11 games for us, and I'm not 100% sure that Duke is the first thing people think when they see Kyrie. Furthermore, Kyrie did not win a national championship or participate in the ACC tournament for us.

My point is, if Jabari Parker comes to Duke, has a short, but visibile career here and wins a NC, and then goes on the dominate the NBA for 13+ years, I just think it would even further secure our brand as the premier basketball program in the country. I mean, how many signature guys do we have that are/were stars at the next level and most people, regardless of their affiliations can't help but like? I think the list is pretty short: Grant Hill, Kyrie Irving. That's about it really. I mean, I think Nolan Smith could be in this category, but he just doesn't project to be an All-Star at the next level. UNC will always have Jordan, and probably about 5 or 6 other guys in that category. Heck, MJ's probably the ONLY reason they were able to steal Barnes away from us. This make wonder every day what it would have been like if we had gotten Kobe for a year.

I realize Duke will probably be fine either way, but having a potential future NBA hall of famer (and I know this is unbelievably premature, but it's all speculation anyways) play a year at Duke is only going to help us immensely in the future, especially after Coach K retires. All the kids who watch Jabari in the NBA will know in the back of their mind that he's a Duke product, and it may swing a couple of elite recruits our way. I'm thinking long term here.

[Starter]

EDIT: I see you clarified in your latest post. Still, I disagree. Zoubek played great down the stretch in 2010. That didn't make him an "elite big man" in the sense we're talking about now. Also, the ballyhooed Brand-Boozer-Landlord trio played 9 seasons for us and won one championship (although they did make 3 Final Fours). And in that one championship, Boozer was the 3rd or maybe even 4th option on offense (and wasn't that great a defender.


I mean, obviously it's cool if we disagree. Just ask my fiancée! I maintain Zoubek - an excellent rebounder and shot blocker, the best offensive rebounder in the country, an efficient offensive complement and a crucial piece to a championship team - was playing at an elite level. You don't. It's all good in the hood, people define eliteness differently. I, for one, would not put Mason there. Here's hoping I can next year.

Here's the thing: When you have an elite talent down low, you may not win a championship - kind of a high bar - but you're always legitimately in the mix. Those teams with Brand, I mean, both of them could have - should have! - won. (I still contend that if he hadn't broken his foot in '98, they win that year.) Boozer was a key part of one title team, and they had a legit shot the year after when he led the country in fg%, but they suffered a massive upset. Duke had a very real shot to win a title at least 2 of Sheldon's seasons at Duke - his foul troubles after Okafor picked up his 2 still haunt me. And Duke made the move from good but not great, to championship caliber when Zoubek made the leap himself.

I'm not saying Randle is unequivocally on that level with all those guys. But he's good, and on the off chance he fills in about 20 pounds or so and becomes that player, Duke doesn't have that element going forward. It'd be nice to, is all.

Sorry to do all this in a Jabari thread, by the way. I'd totally take that guy too.

[Kedsy]

My point is, if Jabari Parker comes to Duke, has a short, but visibile career here and wins a NC, and then goes on the dominate the NBA for 13+ years, I just think it would even further secure our brand as the premier basketball program in the country.

Not asking for much, are we?



Also, I have to ask: why'd you pick 13+ instead of some other number?


I realize Duke will probably be fine either way, but having a potential future NBA hall of famer (and I know this is unbelievably premature, but it's all speculation anyways) play a year at Duke is only going to help us immensely in the future, especially after Coach K retires.

I think we should let the kid finish high school before we induct him into the Hall of Fame.

That aside, I'm not sure I agree with your logic. Grant Hill played ten years after Jordan, was an All Star and possible potential NBA hall of famer, and is even still in the League, and I don't feel like we have a current recruiting bump because of him.

Jordan still helps UNC because many consider him the best player ever and he developed a very strong brand more or less apart from his basketball greatness. The other greats from Jordan's era, Bird (Indiana State), Magic (Michigan State), Olajuwon (Houston), Barkley (Auburn), etc., don't seem to be drawing high school studs to their teams after all these years. I don't think it's reasonable to think that Jabari Parker will be so good that 30 years from now kids will want to go to Duke to "be like Jabari."

[licc85]

Not asking for much, are we?

I said "if," didn't I? The important part is that he's visible (unlike Kyrie) and we win a lot of games while he's here. With the team that we could potentially have in 2 years, I don't think a NC is being unrealistic.


Also, I have to ask: why'd you pick 13+ instead of some other number?

I dunno, most hall of fame caliber players play at an all-star level in the league for about 10-14 years and then their body breaks down. That's just what happens. What do you want me to say, 20+ years?



That aside, I'm not sure I agree with your logic. Grant Hill played ten years after Jordan, was an All Star and possible potential NBA hall of famer, and is even still in the League, and I don't feel like we have a current recruiting bump because of him.


Coach K is currently using Grant Hill's status as a former Duke player to recruit this guy named Jabari Parker. He's pretty good.

[luvdahops]

I think it was Charles Barkley who said something to the effect of, "I always like playing against Larry because then I knew I wouldn't be the worst defender on the floor."

Bird did make some memorable plays on the defensive end but I don't see any reason why Barnes couldn't end up being better.

Bird was not a good man to man defender. Worthy often abused him in the great Lakers-Celtics matchups of the 80s. But Bird wasn't bad off the ball, as his court sense and anticipation led to a decent number of steals, some in very clutch situations. He was also an outstanding defensive rebounder for a SF.

I think Barnes has a chance to be a better man to man defender than Bird if he commits to it. But I can't see him ever being as good off the ball or on the boards.

[luvdahops]

Coach K is currently using Grant Hill's status as a former Duke player to recruit this guy named Jabari Parker. He's pretty good.

I live in the Chicago area and have seen Jabari play several times and have read and heard much about his personality, both on and off the court.

He is very similar to Grant in many respects. On the court, Jabari is extremely versatile, fluid and unselfish. He sometimes needs prodding to take games over. He is not flashy but will periodically make breathtaking plays. Jabari is also very bright, personable and articulate. Sound familiar? I think there was a little more to K invokng Grant with Jabari than with other recruits, even one as talented as, say, Rodney Hood.

I agree that calling him the best HS player since LeBron was likely an exaggeration. But he is a great player and great kid who would be a huge asset for Duke no matter how long he stays, and no matter who else is on the roster with him.

[dukemsu]

I live in the Chicago area and have seen Jabari play several times and have read and heard much about his personality, both on and off the court.

He is very similar to Grant in many respects. On the court, Jabari is extremely versatile, fluid and unselfish. He sometimes needs prodding to take games over. He is not flashy but will periodically make breathtaking plays. Jabari is also very bright, personable and articulate. Sound familiar? I think there was a little more to K invokng Grant with Jabari than with other recruits, even one as talented as, say, Rodney Hood.

I agree that calling him the best HS player since LeBron was likely an exaggeration. But he is a great player and great kid who would be a huge asset for Duke no matter how long he stays, and no matter who else is on the roster with him.

Agree with all of the above. I have also seen Jabari play on multiple occasions and have heard a ton about him and his family from the high school, Duke, and Michigan State perspectives.

Honestly I think he has some Carmelo in his game, but it's very hard to not think of Grant when you watch him play. Tremendous kid and whichever program is fortunate enough to add him will add a new "face of the program" even though he's likely to be there only a year.

dukemsu

[Jderf]

Bolding by me.

Yeah, what would be great would be to see Mason do something like going for 17pts and 12rebs in a really big game against one of the elite big men in the country. *

Or maybe if he could do something dominant like go for 23 and 12 in an ACC road game. **

It would be great if we could count on him to do something like 16 and 13 or 15 and 17 in nationally televised games against big time non-conference opponents. ***

It would be really nice if we could get a line like 19 and 12 out of him in an NCAA tourney game too. ****

*- like he did against Kansas in the Maui championship versus Thomas Robinson
**- like he did at Maryland
***- like he did at Temple and versus St John's
****- like he did against Lehigh

Ok, sarcasm mode off.

Folks, I don't mean to divert a threat about Jabari Parker (don't even get me started on the absurdity of the "luxury recruit" comment) but Mason deserves more love. I watched him in person at some Duke games last year and he was working his tail off for position and not getting rewarded very much by our guards. I think that if we used him more, as I expect we will this coming season, he would consistently put up the kind of dominating numbers he showed us glimpses of in many games last year.

--Jason "important caveat about this post-- I generally agree with pretty much everything Starter says. This post is a real outlier" Evans

Get. Mason. The ball.

[Starter]

Bolding by me.

Yeah, what would be great would be to see Mason do something like going for 17pts and 12rebs in a really big game against one of the elite big men in the country. *

Or maybe if he could do something dominant like go for 23 and 12 in an ACC road game. **

It would be great if we could count on him to do something like 16 and 13 or 15 and 17 in nationally televised games against big time non-conference opponents. ***

It would be really nice if we could get a line like 19 and 12 out of him in an NCAA tourney game too. ****

*- like he did against Kansas in the Maui championship versus Thomas Robinson
**- like he did at Maryland
***- like he did at Temple and versus St John's
****- like he did against Lehigh

Ok, sarcasm mode off.

Folks, I don't mean to divert a threat about Jabari Parker (don't even get me started on the absurdity of the "luxury recruit" comment) but Mason deserves more love. I watched him in person at some Duke games last year and he was working his tail off for position and not getting rewarded very much by our guards. I think that if we used him more, as I expect we will this coming season, he would consistently put up the kind of dominating numbers he showed us glimpses of in many games last year.

--Jason "important caveat about this post-- I generally agree with pretty much everything Starter says. This post is a real outlier" Evans

Just saw this. Good post, strong numbers to back it up. You're right, Mason most certainly has the capability to dominate games. I was glad to see him return, and as the guy whose picture somehow ended up on his Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mason_Plumlee), I look forward to seeing what he has in store for us this season. I'm completely and totally with you in terms of not being rewarded as much as he should have been by our guards after busting his tail to get position, and I'm hoping things will be a little better for him next year -- if Cook ascends, it'll help the cause. I still remember how amazing he looked before Irving went down, and that was as a sophomore. And as you said, he had some big spots last year where he was a game-changer.

Please note, by the way, you're dead-on to correct me, but though I'm not sure how I was coming off with this, I like Mason a great deal. (If for nothing more than he once complimented my sneakers!) And he's a darn good player; you don't basically average a double double if you're not. I just think at 11 points per game, he has a little ways to go before being called "elite," though it's not to say he can't get there. He had a stretch last year where his scoring dropped completely off the table, though like we said, that's not all completely on him and he was a solid rebounder throughout. He also had a fairly decent streak of double-doubles before that. If we can get him to where he's a consistent scoring presence, I see no reason, with his talent, that he shouldn't at least approach the numbers Robinson had last year for Kansas. Then we're talking about a team with an absolutely legit shot at a Final Four, followed by a well-deserved lottery pick for Mason. But as Jason correctly assessed, the physical tools and precedent are there.

Edit: Uh... here's a picture (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chamberoffear/6716323735/in/photostream) I took of Jabari Parker. (In a desperate attempt to keep myself on topic!)

[dcar1985]

Multiple sources saying Jabari has narrowed his list to Mich St, Duke, and Kansas...with it really being a two team race and Kansas a distant third...

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/222793/Jabari_Parker_Likely_To_Choose_Between_Michigan_St ate_Duke

http://www.freep.com/article/20120804/SPORTS07/120804021/1055/sports07

[Greg_Newton]

For what it's worth, me too. I think the most important thing we can do at this point for 2013-14 is recruit another player who can defend the 5 and contribute good minutes there. If Randle can do that and Parker can't, then I think Randle's the more important recruit. If neither (or both) can do that, then I'll take either (or both) and gut it out at the 5 with Marshall and whoever's able to back him up.

Thing is, Randle doesn't want to do that, and I don't really blame him.

It's a tricky situation, because there really aren't any immediate-impact centers in the 2013 class. Of the three we bigs we're pursuing, Nichols is probably the closest, and he's more of a PF than a C. Lee and Damian Jones are nice prospects, I highly doubt any would be better than Marshall in his third year, but hopefully one could contribute backup minutes... but then, would they really jump SR Hairston or SO Jefferson as the 4th big in the rotation anyway?

I'd be curious what situation K is selling to Randle.

[licc85]

Thing is, Randle doesn't want to do that, and I don't really blame him.

It's a tricky situation, because there really aren't any immediate-impact centers in the 2013 class. Of the three we bigs we're pursuing, Nichols is probably the closest, and he's more of a PF than a C. Lee and Damian Jones are nice prospects, I highly doubt any would be better than Marshall in his third year, but hopefully one could contribute backup minutes... but then, would they really jump SR Hairston or SO Jefferson as the 4th big in the rotation anyway?

I'd be curious what situation K is selling to Randle.

Yeah, Randle will definitely be asked to play and defend the center position for us if he commits here (Assuming Marshall is a backup). I think he has the versatility and the build to pull it off on offense, but nothing that I've seen or heard about him suggests that he is an adequate post defender. He has an average wingspan for his size, and I don't think his standing vertical is good enough to make up for it. Again, he's not Elton Brand. Ideally, he would play the 4 with Marshall in the lineup, but with our anticipated plethora of talented combo forwards (esp. if Jabari commits), I think Randle would spend a lot of time at the 5. Still, with a ridiculous front court of Randle, Parker, and Murphy, it might be good enough on offense that the lack of a true post defender might not matter. I mean, that's 3 guys in the FRONT COURT who can all take their man off the dribble. With a 5 man lineup who all have above average ball handling for their position, I think it would be a scary good team on offense.

[Greg_Newton]

I don't think it's even worth speculating what would happen if we land both of them, because the chance is so slim. I think the question is whether Cook-Sulaimon-Hood-Murphy-Randle is better than Cook-Sulaimon/Hood/Murphy-Randle-Marshall (with one of the three wings as a "6th starter", and whether it's worth playing two guys out of position in positions they do not want to play (Murphy at 4, Randle at 5).

But all that's really putting the cart before the horse - IMO, we'd have a hard time winning the Randle sweepstakes if our pitch to him is coming in and playing center. However, I doubt Coach K would knowingly lie to him, thus my curiosity about what the pitch is and my assumption that Marshall would be starting in the middle.

[Kedsy]

I think the question is whether Cook-Sulaimon-Hood-Murphy-Randle is better than Cook-Sulaimon/Hood/Murphy-Randle-Marshall (with one of the three wings as a "6th starter", and whether it's worth playing two guys out of position in positions they do not want to play (Murphy at 4, Randle at 5).

Well, that's sort of the question but I don't think it really is. Even best case, Marshall won't be playing 40 minutes. Probably closer to 20, which means somebody else has to play 15 to 20 minutes at C. If Randle is on the team, I'd assume it would be him and he'd play the rest of his time at PF. Alex and Amile can play PF but C would seem to be a stretch. You'd think the same for Josh, although he's probably closer than the other two to be ready to play backup C.

Also, when Randle would (hypothetically, of course) play C for Duke, he wouldn't have to play back-to-the-basket on offense. Kyle didn't play traditional C on offense in 2008; he just had to defend the other team's C. My guess is Randle might not have that big an issue with that sort of arrangement (and same for Alex at PF), but obviously I don't know for sure.

[gumbomoop]

Even best case, Marshall won't be playing 40 minutes. Probably closer to 20, which means somebody else has to play 15 to 20 minutes at C. If Randle is on the team, I'd assume it would be him and he'd play the rest of his time at PF. Alex and Amile can play PF but C would seem to be a stretch. You'd think the same for Josh, although he's probably closer than the other two to be ready to play backup C.

Also, when Randle would (hypothetically, of course) play C for Duke, he wouldn't have to play back-to-the-basket on offense. Kyle didn't play traditional C on offense in 2008; he just had to defend the other team's C. My guess is Randle might not have that big an issue with that sort of arrangement (and same for Alex at PF), but obviously I don't know for sure.

I agree with this analysis, every word of it. Including, either explicitly or [I think, but Kedsy may need to correct me] implicitly:

When Marshall's not in the game, and Randle is paired with either Hairston or Jefferson as the "bigs," Randle would still be the PF on O, and guard the opposing C only intermittently on D.
Josh, a solidly-built, experienced senior, even though undersized, would get minutes as backup C.
K will presumably "sell" Randle on Randle's being a key cog in a "fluid" offense, especially fluid when Marshall is not on the court, i.e., pretty close to half the game.
Thus, Randle will be a "big" who will get plenty of opportunities to display a variety of O-talents, and will not be the primary C-defender.

[UrinalCake]

My guess is Randle might not have that big an issue with that sort of arrangement (and same for Alex at PF), but obviously I don't know for sure.

If I'm Randle and this is what's being pitched to me, I don't think I'd want to come. Why would a face-up 4 who projects to play the 4 at the next level want to spend half of his minutes playing center? Why not go to a school that already has the center position locked up? I think if I'm Coach K I have to sell him on the notion that we'll bring in another recruit to fill the backup C role. I don't see Hairston playing C at all, I mean he's already undersized at the 4. No way is he going to guard a seven footer. But I do think that Marshall will play more than 20 minutes, hopefully closer to 30.

I also find it kind of interesting that these hypothetical lineups we're envisioning are kind of similar to the Olympic team roster, with Marshall playing the Tyson Chandler role.

[BD80]

If I'm Randle and this is what's being pitched to me, I don't think I'd want to come. Why would a face-up 4 who projects to play the 4 at the next level want to spend half of his minutes playing center? Why not go to a school that already has the center position locked up? I think if I'm Coach K I have to sell him on the notion that we'll bring in another recruit to fill the backup C role. I don't see Hairston playing C at all, I mean he's already undersized at the 4. No way is he going to guard a seven footer. But I do think that Marshall will play more than 20 minutes, hopefully closer to 30.

I also find it kind of interesting that these hypothetical lineups we're envisioning are kind of similar to the Olympic team roster, with Marshall playing the Tyson Chandler role.

The NBA wants its "bigs" trained to play down low, particularly to defend in the post. It would make great sense (& cents?) for a player to come to Duke to play the 5 even though his pro ambitions lie at the 4. It would highlight his "face-up" skills when defended by opposing 5s away from the basket. Danny Ferry anyone?

Not a big fan of predicting minutes, but history should be some guide. Not many bigs at Duke get 30 mpg.

Hairston will play the 5. How many 7' centers does Duke encounter during a season? Out of 35+ games, we may face a 7 footer 6-10 times? And how many times will the back-up center be 7'?

[licc85]

I also find it kind of interesting that these hypothetical lineups we're envisioning are kind of similar to the Olympic team roster, with Marshall playing the Tyson Chandler role.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

Marshall = Chandler
Jabari = Lebron
Sulaimon = Kobe/Westbrook
Cook = Paul
Murphy = KD
Amile = The Brow

Hood = Melo/Iggy? (This is where the similarities kind of end)
Dawkins/Jones = Harden?

Long story short, lots of awesome wing players and guards, but only 1 real big man (who is probably a foul magnet), just like team USA, albeit scaled down to a college talent level (obviously). At least Coach K will already know what to do :p

[Kedsy]

I think if I'm Coach K I have to sell him on the notion that we'll bring in another recruit to fill the backup C role.

I'm not sure how practical that is. We already have 10 scholarships committed for 2013-14 (assuming Andre comes back). Unless the other big man recruit is a top ten prospect, when the rotation tightens down to 8 (maybe even 7), if Randle is on the team he'd almost have to play a fair amount of minutes at C.

And if by some miracle we snagged both Randle and Jabari Parker (this is a Jabari Parker thread after all), we'd have 12 scholarships committed before finding another big man recruit. When was the last time Duke carried 13 recruited scholarship players?

[Greg_Newton]

I'm not sure how practical that is. We already have 10 scholarships committed for 2013-14 (assuming Andre comes back). Unless the other big man recruit is a top ten prospect, when the rotation tightens down to 8 (maybe even 7), if Randle is on the team he'd almost have to play a fair amount of minutes at C.

I agree with this. I mean, a second big man prospect is certainly a major goal in this class, but I don't see how any remaining uncommitted C's in 2013 he would make the regular rotation.

OTOH, I'm pretty confident that the prospect of playing center is not a non-factor in this recruitment, unless he's pulled a 180 recently. Randle doesn't even really play PF for his AAU team, he's trying to transition into a more point-forward, LBJ role. And while PF will likely be his NBA position, he's not going to be an All-Star playing in the post - he's simply not vertical enough. Remember, while he's 6'9, he has extremely short arms. We're not talking about Elton Brand going up against college centers here, we're talking about someone who's effectively ~4" shorter. He already struggles against long post players in HS.

Also, I'm not exactly sure how putting him on the floor with a pure PF yet not asking him to play center would make sense - we'd be putting Amile/Josh on centers in that scenario, just because we said we would when we were recruiting Randle? I'm also not sure how he would effectively play the LBJ/Webber hybrid role on offense with that spacing; I guess we could put Amile or Josh the in the "offensive center" role, even though that's not really ideal. Hopefully it would be something more effective than the 5-guys-standing-on-the-3-point-line offense we've seen with the 4-forward lineup in the Olympics.

Barring a disappointing trajectory, I'm of the opinion that Marshall will be getting as many minutes in the Tyson Chandler role in 2014 as he can handle. He should be ready to play that role in his third year, and we'll need him to, IMO.

[Monmouth77]

I agree with this. I mean, a second big man prospect is certainly a major goal in this class, but I don't see how any remaining uncommitted C's in 2013 he would make the regular rotation.

OTOH, I'm pretty confident that the prospect of playing center is not a non-factor in this recruitment, unless he's pulled a 180 recently. Randle doesn't even really play PF for his AAU team, he's trying to transition into a more point-forward, LBJ role. And while PF will likely be his NBA position, he's not going to be an All-Star playing in the post - he's simply not vertical enough. Remember, while he's 6'9, he has extremely short arms. We're not talking about Elton Brand going up against college centers here, we're talking about someone who's effectively ~4" shorter. He already struggles against long post players in HS.

Also, I'm not exactly sure how putting him on the floor with a pure PF yet not asking him to play center would make sense - we'd be putting Amile/Josh on centers in that scenario, just because we said we would when we were recruiting Randle? I'm also not sure how he would effectively play the LBJ/Webber hybrid role on offense with that spacing; I guess we could put Amile or Josh the in the "offensive center" role, even though that's not really ideal. Hopefully it would be something more effective than the 5-guys-standing-on-the-3-point-line offense we've seen with the 4-forward lineup in the Olympics.

Barring a disappointing trajectory, I'm of the opinion that Marshall will be getting as many minutes in the Tyson Chandler role in 2014 as he can handle. He should be ready to play that role in his third year, and we'll need him to, IMO.

I also think it's worth observing that true college centers are a rarity and that having Marshall on the floor for most of the game gives us a size advantage at the position against even other top programs. Having Amile or Josh or Alex (or Randle) defend an opponent's best post player for some portion of a ballgame does not strike me as highly problemmatic. Sometimes an athletic wing with size is a better post defender than a "center."

Randle seems like a unique talent who would be well worth having on the roster. If he's anything like Royce White, who I got to see play last year in Lousiville during the Tournament (when he scored on MKG and Davis with ease on more than a few possessions), I'd be happy to add him and figure out how things fit together later. Sounds like a good problem to have.

[Greg_Newton]

I also think it's worth observing that true college centers are a rarity and that having Marshall on the floor for most of the game gives us a size advantage at the position against even other top programs. Having Amile or Josh or Alex (or Randle) defend an opponent's best post player for some portion of a ballgame does not strike me as highly problemmatic. Sometimes an athletic wing with size is a better post defender than a "center."

I'm not so sure that's true; in the ACC alone, that's talking about having those forwards bang with 6'10 280 Joell James (UNC), 7'ers Mike Tobey, Steven Adams and Carson Desrosiers (UVA, Pitt, WFU), 6'11 260 Daniel Miller (GT), 6'8 280 Dajuan Coleman (Cuse) and 6'8 280 Shaquille Cleare (MD) in 2014. Probably a few more I'm not aware of.

Randle would probably be able to hold his own, at least for stretches, but he'd be giving up significant length and/or weight to all of them and have to use a ton of energy; why plan for an unnecessary disadvantage when we've got a 3rd-year 7-footer to plug in?

Plus... I'm just not sure Randle would be crazy about that idea when he's got other blue bloods who would let him play his natural, stretch forward position while someone else takes the brunt of the dirty work inside.

[Olympic Fan]

I'm not so sure that's true; in the ACC alone, that's talking about having those forwards bang with 6'10 280 Joell James (UNC), 7'ers Mike Tobey, Steven Adams and Carson Desrosiers (UVA, Pitt, WFU), 6'11 260 Daniel Miller (GT), 6'8 280 Dajuan Coleman (Cuse) and 6'8 280 Shaquille Cleare (MD) in 2014. Probably a few more I'm not aware of.

Not to dispute your point, but Carson Desrosiers has transferred to Providence. He won't be in the ACC in 2014. Dennis Clifford of BC might be a better example.

And you do list a lot of unproven big men -- Joell James, Steven Adams and/or Shaquille Cleare may be good, but none is a sure-fire star -- in fact, of the freshmen big men who will be playing in the ACC next season, pretty sure that Marshall Plumlee is the only McDonald's All-American among them.

[licc85]

I'm gonna get back to the whole reason why Randle is being discussed so heavily in this thread:


Parker is an amazing player, but he is luxury for the 2013-2014 team with Hood, Murphy, and Jefferson already on board. Randle, on the other hand, fits a much more pressing need.

I understand that Parker is seen as the better player (barely, though. They are both so talented) but, gun to my head, I'd rather have Randle.

I'm not sure we ever REALLY addressed this, purely from an on-the-court perspective. This is what I got, and I'll try to be as fair as I can be:

Jabari Parker

Outstanding characteristics: Basketball IQ, ideal build for an NBA SF, great feel for the game, unselfishness, versatility, plays extremely hard

Strengths on offense: Can score from long range/mid range/high post/low post (basically anywhere), doesn't force the issue, can take a similar sized or bigger defender off the dribble, can post up smaller defenders, excellent passer, good ball handler for his size

Strengths on defense: Good rebounder, excellent length, can defend 3 positions

Weaknesses: Has trouble defending quicker perimeter players, needs to add strength, needs to improve handle to beat intense ball pressure

Julius Randle

Outstanding characteristics: Outstanding motor and strength, plays extremely hard, plays aggressively all the time

Strengths on offense: Great touch around the rim, can begin a drive to the rim from just about anywhere with enough space, tough to stop when he's going to the rim with momentum, has counter moves and power moves to get inside, can take other big men off the dribble

Strengths on defense: Good rebounder, has the ability to leap multiple times in succession to challenge shots and/or fight for rebounds

Weaknesses: Jump shot needs work, decent ball handler for his size, but will have a lot of trouble driving to the paint from the perimeter against college defenders, not a good shot blocker, somewhat of a ball stopper when utilizing his face up game, average length for his size, can only play 1 position

Now, with that said, let's look at our current projected roster for 2013-14:

Centers:
Marshall Plumlee

Forwards:
Alex Murphy
Amile Jefferson
Josh Hairston
Rodney Hood

Guards:
Quinn Cook
Andre Dawkins
Rasheed Sulaimon
Tyler Thornton
Matt Jones

Out of those players, how many of them could potentially become a go-to scorer with the ability to create their own shot? I think out of this group, 3 players stand out to me as potential playmakers: Sulaimon, Murphy, and Cook. I think asking a sophomore Sulaimon or Alex Murphy to take on that role would be a bit of a stretch. Therefore, we would be relying quite a bit on Quinn Cook to create shots for our team, which I don't doubt that he can. However, are we 100% comfortable with Quinn Cook being our go-to guy in the clutch? I dunno . . . it's too early to tell.

However, I think I'd be 100% comfortable with giving the ball to Jabari Parker down 1 with 10 seconds to go. Not only is the guy capable of scoring from just about anywhere, he's got the vision and the passing skills to make plays for others. He's the perfect go-to guy. He could be for us exactly what LeBron is to team USA. Not necessarily the leading scorer, but the guy who has the ball when things are tight, and we need a bucket. He definitely has the ability to create a scoring opportunity for himself, or set up someone else (one of our shooters, take your pick: Dawkins, Jones, Sulaimon, Hood, Murphy, Cook). It's really almost the perfect team for someone like Jabari, who has the ball skills to get in the paint, and has the space to do so because he is surrounded by good shooters, many of whom are also able to make plays. The key here is that Jabari is a good ball handler and passer.

Could I say the same for Julis Randle? Yeah, some of that helps him. Having shooters around a good interior player is always a good thing, but I definitely wouldn't feel great about trying to get the ball to Randle in the final seconds of a big game. Jabari can just come to the ball on the perimeter and get a hand off. It would be a nightmare trying to feed a post player as our go-to guy in a tight game. Also, I don't feel great about Randle's ability to pass out from the post, or his ball handling against tight defense.

Bottom line is, even though the team will lack size, I'd argue Jabari is a way more important player for our needs than Randle. Randle brings maybe 1 or 2 things that the rest of our team doesn't already have, that being a big, tough rebounder, and perhaps a big guy with some perimeter skills. Not to mention, he doesn't fit very well with our roster as it is, and would need to play significant minutes at center, which he is not ideally suited for. Jabari brings about 4 or 5 things that we need, that can't be replaced by anyone else on the team, and I just think he fits our system better. All that said, I'd still rather get them both, but if I had to pick 1, it's Jabari, and it's not close.

[Greg_Newton]

Not to dispute your point, but Carson Desrosiers has transferred to Providence. He won't be in the ACC in 2014. Dennis Clifford of BC might be a better example.

And you do list a lot of unproven big men -- Joell James, Steven Adams and/or Shaquille Cleare may be good, but none is a sure-fire star -- in fact, of the freshmen big men who will be playing in the ACC next season, pretty sure that Marshall Plumlee is the only McDonald's All-American among them.

Ah - I assume RSCI top 25 2012 C Robert Carter would fill his spot then, who's a smaller but still hefty 6'9 245. And while Marshall was the only one to play in the McD's game, I count at least 5 centers in that group who were ranked higher than him in their respective classes.

I wasn't meaning to imply that they would all be stars, merely that they're all odds-on favorites to be starting or seeing big minutes at C in the ACC 2013-2014 (unless Adams goes pro). So, stars or not, asking Josh, Alex or Amile to battle around the rim all game against those guys would be giving them a fairly substantial and unnecessary (and bruising) challenge, IMO. That's what we recruited Marshall to do.

[CDu]

Out of those players, how many of them could potentially become a go-to scorer with the ability to create their own shot? I think out of this group, 3 players stand out to me as potential playmakers: Sulaimon, Murphy, and Cook. I think asking a sophomore Sulaimon or Alex Murphy to take on that role would be a bit of a stretch. Therefore, we would be relying quite a bit on Quinn Cook to create shots for our team, which I don't doubt that he can. However, are we 100% comfortable with Quinn Cook being our go-to guy in the clutch? I dunno . . . it's too early to tell.

I would add Hood to the mix of guys who can become a go-to scorer with the ability to create his own shot. And having 3-4 guys who can do that is more than enough, especially when you can toss in weapons like Jones and Jefferson who can make things happen off the ball. So I don't think the "need for a go-to player" argument is the best argument for Parker at Duke. That's not to say that Parker might not still be the preferred target - just that I don't think we'll suffer from a lack of go-to options without him.

[ChillinDuke]

I'm gonna get back to the whole reason why Randle is being discussed so heavily in this thread:



I'm not sure we ever REALLY addressed this, purely from an on-the-court perspective. This is what I got, and I'll try to be as fair as I can be:

Jabari Parker

Outstanding characteristics: Basketball IQ, ideal build for an NBA SF, great feel for the game, unselfishness, versatility, plays extremely hard

Strengths on offense: Can score from long range/mid range/high post/low post (basically anywhere), doesn't force the issue, can take a similar sized or bigger defender off the dribble, can post up smaller defenders, excellent passer, good ball handler for his size

Strengths on defense: Good rebounder, excellent length, can defend 3 positions

Weaknesses: Has trouble defending quicker perimeter players, needs to add strength, needs to improve handle to beat intense ball pressure

Julius Randle

Outstanding characteristics: Outstanding motor and strength, plays extremely hard, plays aggressively all the time

Strengths on offense: Great touch around the rim, can begin a drive to the rim from just about anywhere with enough space, tough to stop when he's going to the rim with momentum, has counter moves and power moves to get inside, can take other big men off the dribble

Strengths on defense: Good rebounder, has the ability to leap multiple times in succession to challenge shots and/or fight for rebounds

Weaknesses: Jump shot needs work, decent ball handler for his size, but will have a lot of trouble driving to the paint from the perimeter against college defenders, not a good shot blocker, somewhat of a ball stopper when utilizing his face up game, average length for his size, can only play 1 position

Now, with that said, let's look at our current projected roster for 2013-14:

Centers:
Marshall Plumlee

Forwards:
Alex Murphy
Amile Jefferson
Josh Hairston
Rodney Hood

Guards:
Quinn Cook
Andre Dawkins
Rasheed Sulaimon
Tyler Thornton
Matt Jones

Out of those players, how many of them could potentially become a go-to scorer with the ability to create their own shot? I think out of this group, 3 players stand out to me as potential playmakers: Sulaimon, Murphy, and Cook. I think asking a sophomore Sulaimon or Alex Murphy to take on that role would be a bit of a stretch. Therefore, we would be relying quite a bit on Quinn Cook to create shots for our team, which I don't doubt that he can. However, are we 100% comfortable with Quinn Cook being our go-to guy in the clutch? I dunno . . . it's too early to tell.

However, I think I'd be 100% comfortable with giving the ball to Jabari Parker down 1 with 10 seconds to go. Not only is the guy capable of scoring from just about anywhere, he's got the vision and the passing skills to make plays for others. He's the perfect go-to guy. He could be for us exactly what LeBron is to team USA. Not necessarily the leading scorer, but the guy who has the ball when things are tight, and we need a bucket. He definitely has the ability to create a scoring opportunity for himself, or set up someone else (one of our shooters, take your pick: Dawkins, Jones, Sulaimon, Hood, Murphy, Cook). It's really almost the perfect team for someone like Jabari, who has the ball skills to get in the paint, and has the space to do so because he is surrounded by good shooters, many of whom are also able to make plays. The key here is that Jabari is a good ball handler and passer.

Could I say the same for Julis Randle? Yeah, some of that helps him. Having shooters around a good interior player is always a good thing, but I definitely wouldn't feel great about trying to get the ball to Randle in the final seconds of a big game. Jabari can just come to the ball on the perimeter and get a hand off. It would be a nightmare trying to feed a post player as our go-to guy in a tight game. Also, I don't feel great about Randle's ability to pass out from the post, or his ball handling against tight defense.

Bottom line is, even though the team will lack size, I'd argue Jabari is a way more important player for our needs than Randle. Randle brings maybe 1 or 2 things that the rest of our team doesn't already have, that being a big, tough rebounder, and perhaps a big guy with some perimeter skills. Not to mention, he doesn't fit very well with our roster as it is, and would need to play significant minutes at center, which he is not ideally suited for. Jabari brings about 4 or 5 things that we need, that can't be replaced by anyone else on the team, and I just think he fits our system better. All that said, I'd still rather get them both, but if I had to pick 1, it's Jabari, and it's not close.

I look at that lineup of players, and I'm just embarrassed that we are discussing what the #1 recruit in the country will add to that team.

That lineup as it stands is already an imposing, versatile group with a ton of play-making potential, IMHO.

Carry on...

- Chillin

[Kedsy]

I look at that lineup of players, and I'm just embarrassed that we are discussing what the #1 recruit in the country will add to that team.

That lineup as it stands is already an imposing, versatile group with a ton of play-making potential, IMHO.

Carry on...

I agree, there's a lot of firepower on that team. To me, the only thing the roster lacks is a second player who can defend the center position. That's why I think this debate between Parker and Randle has legs. On the other hand, if neither Parker nor Randle can meet that need, then perhaps neither of them would be our most important recruit. Having said that, putting the #1 or #2 recruit on the above roster would really give us something. And I'm not sure there's an impact big man out there we could recruit. It will be interesting to see how K handles all this.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I would add Hood to the mix of guys who can become a go-to scorer with the ability to create his own shot. And having 3-4 guys who can do that is more than enough, especially when you can toss in weapons like Jones and Jefferson who can make things happen off the ball. So I don't think the "need for a go-to player" argument is the best argument for Parker at Duke. That's not to say that Parker might not still be the preferred target - just that I don't think we'll suffer from a lack of go-to options without him.

Exactly. Plus, hasn't Duke disproved the notion of having a player who can "create his own shot"? You only need to look at the 2010 season to see how you can win without having that type of player. I am not disputing the notion of a go-to scorer (we had the fortune of having 3 of them in 2010), but in a year from now, we'll have plenty: Cook, Hood, Sulaimon (TBD), Murphy, and Dawkins. Next year (and this year), I really don't see scoring as an issue. It's defense and versatility. In 2012-2013, we'll be extremely diverse from the 1-3 (possibly the 4 as well), but the 5 (and maybe the four) will need to be beefed up. That's why I value Randle more than Parker. Having the best player in the country will undoubtedly make your team better, but adding the missing piece, IMO, is vastly more important to winning the NC-Double-A.

[licc85]

I would add Hood to the mix of guys who can become a go-to scorer with the ability to create his own shot. And having 3-4 guys who can do that is more than enough, especially when you can toss in weapons like Jones and Jefferson who can make things happen off the ball. So I don't think the "need for a go-to player" argument is the best argument for Parker at Duke. That's not to say that Parker might not still be the preferred target - just that I don't think we'll suffer from a lack of go-to options without him.

I mean, I didn't say we didn't have enough go-to options. It's a good team, obviously. I'm just saying Parker does so many things well that he would easily be the best go-to player on the roster if we had him. I'm not completely clear what your logic is here. So you're saying we're good enough without the best possible player that we are recruiting, so it doesn't matter if we don't get him? I thought we were going for national championships here. Parker makes a final four team a title contender immediately.

[COYS]

Exactly. Plus, hasn't Duke disproved the notion of having a player who can "create his own shot"? You only need to look at the 2010 season to see how you can win without having that type of player. I am not disputing the notion of a go-to scorer (we had the fortune of having 3 of them in 2010), but in a year from now, we'll have plenty: Cook, Hood, Sulaimon (TBD), Murphy, and Dawkins. Next year (and this year), I really don't see scoring as an issue. It's defense and versatility. In 2012-2013, we'll be extremely diverse from the 1-3 (possibly the 4 as well), but the 5 (and maybe the four) will need to be beefed up. That's why I value Randle more than Parker. Having the best player in the country will undoubtedly make your team better, but adding the missing piece, IMO, is vastly more important to winning the NC-Double-A.

I thought Nolan's ability to create his own shot played a very important role in making the 2010 team click. Scheyer was underrated at creating his own shot, as well, but there were many times late in the shot clock when Nolan made something out of nothing.

Otherwise, I totally agree. The key will be how much our defense improves. It certainly seems that we'll be strong on the perimeter, just as you say, but depending on how Marshall develops, we might need a little more help in the post on defense.

[licc85]

That's why I value Randle more than Parker. Having the best player in the country will undoubtedly make your team better, but adding the missing piece, IMO, is vastly more important to winning the NC-Double-A.

I'm using the exact argument as you, I just think Parker fills more holes than Randle because he just does so many things well, whereas Randle does like 3-4 things well. I mean, Parker is undoubtedly the better defensive player, so that argument is moot. Both of them can play the 4. Parker has a longer wingspan too, I don't even think Randle is a significantly better rebounder. Parker is 6'8" and jumps higher . . so he's just chopped liver in the post on D? I mean, he's the EXACT same size as Lance Thomas. Just because he's labeled as a 3 doesn't mean he can't defend the post. Parker is a better offensive player as well. I really don't see how Randle supposedly is "the missing piece." Just because he's about an inch taller and weighs about 20 pounds more? Size isn't everything.

[UrinalCake]

I really don't see how Randle supposedly is "the missing piece." Just because he's about an inch taller and weighs about 20 pounds more? Size isn't everything.

First off, there's inherently a lot of unknowns as we're discussing what our team could look like 14 months from now. High school ratings must always be taken with a grain of salt, and we have a lot of young guys on our team that have a whole season of development ahead. Guys can leave early. So none of us really knows for sure exactly what each of these guys can do or what our needs will be. We're all just making educated guesses.

I like your breakdown of our team and how Parker could be used in our offense, the way LeBron is used in the Olympic team. I do think that we have other guys that could fill that role too, if Parker were to go elsewhere. Murphy seems like the most likely candidate to me due to his versatility, but again we've never actually seen him play (except for like 30 seconds in China). Murphy, Hood, Jefferson, and Rasheed all seem to have the ability to do the kinds of things you're talking about - being the guy with the ball in his hands and the go-to guy in the clutch, scoring and distributing. It may very well be that Parker is better at these things than any of our guys, but we don't know that. In the case of Randle though, his strengths don't seem to overlap as much with the guys we already have, so I think that's why some of us see him as the so-called "missing piece."

[licc85]

First off, there's inherently a lot of unknowns as we're discussing what our team could look like 14 months from now. High school ratings must always be taken with a grain of salt, and we have a lot of young guys on our team that have a whole season of development ahead. Guys can leave early. So none of us really knows for sure exactly what each of these guys can do or what our needs will be. We're all just making educated guesses.

I like your breakdown of our team and how Parker could be used in our offense, the way LeBron is used in the Olympic team. I do think that we have other guys that could fill that role too, if Parker were to go elsewhere. Murphy seems like the most likely candidate to me due to his versatility, but again we've never actually seen him play (except for like 30 seconds in China). Murphy, Hood, Jefferson, and Rasheed all seem to have the ability to do the kinds of things you're talking about - being the guy with the ball in his hands and the go-to guy in the clutch, scoring and distributing. It may very well be that Parker is better at these things than any of our guys, but we don't know that. In the case of Randle though, his strengths don't seem to overlap as much with the guys we already have, so I think that's why some of us see him as the so-called "missing piece."

I guess everyone entitled to their own opinions, but I just feel a bit strange having to defend the best player in the country (and possibly the best prospect in several years) in his own recruiting thread, especially considering neither Parker nor Randle have given any indication that their commitments to Duke are mutually exclusive. I just think it's a bit outrageous that people on this board seem almost indifferent as to whether or not we land Parker. I still stand by the opinion that Parker gives Duke the best chance of any single recruit to carry the program to another national title in 2014, but it's so far from now, I guess it pointless to waste any more effort arguing.

[CDu]

I guess everyone entitled to their own opinions, but I just feel a bit strange having to defend the best player in the country (and possibly the best prospect in several years) in his own recruiting thread, especially considering neither Parker nor Randle have given any indication that their commitments to Duke are mutually exclusive. I just think it's a bit outrageous that people on this board seem almost indifferent as to whether or not we land Parker. I still stand by the opinion that Parker gives Duke the best chance of any single recruit to carry the program to another national title in 2014, but it's so far from now, I guess it pointless to waste any more effort arguing.

I think you may be misunderstanding some of us. I don't think anyone would be indifferent toward getting Parker. Getting Parker would be absolutely fabulous. It's just that, positionally, Randle fills more of a need than Parker. We have two guys (Murphy and Hood) who should be able to play Parker's position at an elite level. They aren't as good as Parker, but they are likely to still be elite. The lack of options that can guard the PF/C spots are much more glaring.

It would be incredible to get either of them, and getting both would put us in unbelievable shape. It's just that in terms of roster dynamics, Randle is the better fit.

[jimsumner]

I think you may be misunderstanding some of us. I don't think anyone would be indifferent toward getting Parker. Getting Parker would be absolutely fabulous. It's just that, positionally, Randle fills more of a need than Parker. We have two guys (Murphy and Hood) who should be able to play Parker's position at an elite level. They aren't as good as Parker, but they are likely to still be elite. The lack of options that can guard the PF/C spots are much more glaring.

It would be incredible to get either of them, and getting both would put us in unbelievable shape. It's just that in terms of roster dynamics, Randle is the better fit.

Why would Jabari Parker not be able to guard the 4? He's 6-8, 225, about the same size as Roshown McLeod, Shane Battier, Luol Deng, Kyle Singler and Lance Thomas, all of whom managed to find a way to guard college 4s.

Given the way Mike Krzyzewski has used stretch 4s, Parker is practically made for Duke. And playing power forward at Duke didn't seem to hurt the NBA prospects of Grant Hill, Battier, Mike Dunleavy or Deng, among others.

[CDu]

Why would Jabari Parker not be able to guard the 4? He's 6-8, 225, about the same size as Roshown McLeod, Shane Battier, Luol Deng, Kyle Singler and Lance Thomas, all of whom managed to find a way to guard college 4s.

Oh, he could absolutely guard the 4. In fact, that would almost certainly be his position at Duke. But we already have several guys (Murphy, Jefferson, Hairston) who will be able to guard the 4. None of those guys are suited to guard the 5 (only Plumlee fits that bill). My point was that Randle could guard BOTH PF and C, and that fills a need area.


Given the way Mike Krzyzewski has used stretch 4s, Parker is practically made for Duke. And playing power forward at Duke didn't seem to hurt the NBA prospects of Grant Hill, Battier, Mike Dunleavy or Deng, among others.

Yes, Parker would be an absolutely fabulous fit at Duke. And playing the PF spot would certainly not hurt his NBA prospects (that was never even a consideration of mine). But AGAIN, when talking about filling a need rather than "fit", Randle more accurately fills a need (as a second guy capable of defending 5s) more than Parker. This is not in any way a question about Parker's talents. It's merely a reflection of what we have (and don't have) on the team.

Again, I'd absolutely LOVE to get Parker. He'd be better than any of our options at SF or PF. But I'd also LOVE to get Randle (who can guard both 4s and 5s). They're 1a and 1b. And on just about any other team, Parker would likely be the #1 target. But in terms of fitting Duke's "needs", Randle fits a little more.

[jimsumner]

Both Parker and Randle have been somewhat fluid in their committment time-lines. But it does seem quite possible that Parker will sign this fall, while Randle waits until spring 2013.

Randle might make more sense than Parker. Might not. But Duke cannot possibly take the gamble of backing off Parker and hoping for Randle. Duke loves Parker and he is the highest priority. They feel the same way about Randle. But if Parker is ready to go, then you go.

No offense to Murphy or Hairston or Jefferson but Parker appears to be at another level. Some have described Parker as a "luxury" recruit for Duke. That's like saying Kobe Bryant was a luxury recruit in 1996 because Duke already had Chris Carrawell, Mike Chappell and Ricky Price, all pretty good college wings.

Jabari Parker has the potential to be at that level. Pull out all the stops.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Both Parker and Randle have been somewhat fluid in their committment time-lines. But it does seem quite possible that Parker will sign this fall, while Randle waits until spring 2013.

Randle might make more sense than Parker. Might not. But Duke cannot possibly take the gamble of backing off Parker and hoping for Randle. Duke loves Parker and he is the highest priority. They feel the same way about Randle. But if Parker is ready to go, then you go.

No offense to Murphy or Hairston or Jefferson but Parker appears to be at another level. Some have described Parker as a "luxury" recruit for Duke. That's like saying Kobe Bryant was a luxury recruit in 1996 because Duke already had Chris Carrawell, Mike Chappell and Ricky Price, all pretty good college wings.

Jabari Parker has the potential to be at that level. Pull out all the stops.

Jim, I understand that Parker has the ability to be THE impact player and may be the best player on our team from Day 1. And, as CDu has stated, many of us, including myself, would be ecstatic to get Parker. He is probably more talented than Randle (although I've been reading a lot of praise for Randle as of late). But when you look at our team in 2013-2014 (assuming no early entrants or transfers), that team is both stacked and talented at the 2-4. If Sulaimon is expected to be the next Nolan, Hood is a lottery pick despite taking a mandatory red-shirt year, Murphy fits so well into our system, Jones is supposed to be the best shooter in his class, Dawkins is one of the best shooters in the NCAA, and Jefferson is pure, raw talent that - with bulk and practice - can be such an impact player, I personally feel that we'll have the best balance of 2-4 in the country. If Cook works out this year, he'll be an elite junior PG for Duke with two years experience. If he doesn't work out, Thornton has the leadership and defense to guide this team in the right direction (and if Thornton doesn't work out, there is Nolan 2.0 to take the reigns). We have 1 true center in Marshall, who may be as raw as Jefferson (this isn't a bad thing at all. Raw centers have worked out in the past. See Zoubek, Chef Brian) and not much bulk. For pure need, Randle makes more sense. He is a true "4," knows the inside-and-outs of that position, and can help relieve pressure for our bigs. Parker is a true "3" and will certainly add value, but he doesn't help to address the big man issue.

And lastly, with no offense to Carrawell, Chappell, and Price, but our wings in 2013 have both more upside and talent than the three you listed. A better analogy would be adding Thomas Robinson to our big men last year. He would have vastly improved post offense and defense, but he wouldn't have solved our main concern (perimeter defense). Had we added a healthy PG who could defend with attitude, distribute with effectiveness, and lead with authority, this year would probably have been different.

[CDu]

Both Parker and Randle have been somewhat fluid in their committment time-lines. But it does seem quite possible that Parker will sign this fall, while Randle waits until spring 2013.

Randle might make more sense than Parker. Might not. But Duke cannot possibly take the gamble of backing off Parker and hoping for Randle. Duke loves Parker and he is the highest priority. They feel the same way about Randle. But if Parker is ready to go, then you go.

No offense to Murphy or Hairston or Jefferson but Parker appears to be at another level. Some have described Parker as a "luxury" recruit for Duke. That's like saying Kobe Bryant was a luxury recruit in 1996 because Duke already had Chris Carrawell, Mike Chappell and Ricky Price, all pretty good college wings.

Jabari Parker has the potential to be at that level. Pull out all the stops.

Well OBVIOUSLY we should try to get both of them. I don't know that anyone is actually suggesting we should back off Parker in hopes of getting Randle. Instead, I may have hinted (in another thread maybe?) that we back off of some of the lesser targets (i.e., the other SF and PF under consideration) in hopes of eventually landing Randle. The only "either/or" under discussion here is a hypothetical "if we can only get one, who fills the bigger need?" question. That doesn't mean we are actually in an either/or position, and it certainly doesn't mean we should back off of Parker.

This is what I was getting at when I said folks were misunderstanding each other. At no point was I suggesting we shouldn't go after Parker, and I'm guessing there aren't many (if any) others who were suggesting that, either.

[jimsumner]

Well OBVIOUSLY we should try to get both of them. I don't know that anyone is actually suggesting we should back off Parker in hopes of getting Randle. Instead, I may have hinted (in another thread maybe?) that we back off of some of the lesser targets (i.e., the other SF and PF under consideration) in hopes of eventually landing Randle. The only "either/or" under discussion here is a hypothetical "if we can only get one, who fills the bigger need?" question. That doesn't mean we are actually in an either/or position, and it certainly doesn't mean we should back off of Parker.

This is what I was getting at when I said folks were misunderstanding each other. At no point was I suggesting we shouldn't go after Parker, and I'm guessing there aren't many (if any) others who were suggesting that, either.

Okay, let me ask you and others a perhaps hypothetical question.

Assume Parker and Randle are mutually exclusive.

Assume Parker signs in the fall, Randle next spring.

Parker wants to commit to Duke. That may well close the door on Randle.

I take Parker and take my chances with Randle.

What would you do?

BTW, in my earlier example, Carrawell turned out to be ACC POY, while Price was All-ACC as a soph. Not chopped liver.

But Price and Chappell were significant underachievers, after showing great early promise. An indication of why this is as much art as science and why the coaches get paid the big bucks to figure it all out.

[-bdbd]

Both Parker and Randle have been somewhat fluid in their committment time-lines. But it does seem quite possible that Parker will sign this fall, while Randle waits until spring 2013.

Randle might make more sense than Parker. Might not. But Duke cannot possibly take the gamble of backing off Parker and hoping for Randle. Duke loves Parker and he is the highest priority. They feel the same way about Randle. But if Parker is ready to go, then you go.

No offense to Murphy or Hairston or Jefferson but Parker appears to be at another level. Some have described Parker as a "luxury" recruit for Duke. That's like saying Kobe Bryant was a luxury recruit in 1996 because Duke already had Chris Carrawell, Mike Chappell and Ricky Price, all pretty good college wings.

Jabari Parker has the potential to be at that level. Pull out all the stops.


Well OBVIOUSLY we should try to get both of them. I don't know that anyone is actually suggesting we should back off Parker in hopes of getting Randle. Instead, I may have hinted (in another thread maybe?) that we back off of some of the lesser targets (i.e., the other SF and PF under consideration) in hopes of eventually landing Randle. The only "either/or" under discussion here is a hypothetical "if we can only get one, who fills the bigger need?" question. That doesn't mean we are actually in an either/or position, and it certainly doesn't mean we should back off of Parker.

This is what I was getting at when I said folks were misunderstanding each other. At no point was I suggesting we shouldn't go after Parker, and I'm guessing there aren't many (if any) others who were suggesting that, either.

Honestly this seems like a kinda silly discussion. If you you have a shot at a couple of top-2 very special players, then you go after BOTH of them full-throttle. There is no 1a and 1b. They are both #1 as far as the staff (and the kids) are concerned. Just because a team happens to have more wing players at the moment than 4/5 guys in no way should affect their recruitment. Randle and Parker are special, special talents. And, historically, that is how are staff has approached these situations. "Needs" be damned, if you have a shot with an incredible once-in-a-few-years talent like a Parker, or a Randle, then you go after 'em like there's no tomorrow. And while nobody has actually SAID we should go after Randle and not Parker, what else is to be inferred from repeated statements about Randle filling a bigger need for us or being "a more imporatant get" for Duke?? Getting either one would be a game-changer for this program, and if you want to ask "Do we take a Parker over a top-10 Center recruit (other than Randle) if it comes down to our final schollarship," then I say, "IN A HEARTBEAT!"

As good as we seem to be doing for the 2013 class - how exciting is that?!? - it appears that we may actually expect to use up ALL of the available schoolarships for this roster this time (contrary to K's normal practice of leaving 1-2 unused). Don't leave any bullets in your gun belt cowboy!! :D

[flyingdutchdevil]

Okay, let me ask you and others a perhaps hypothetical question.

Assume Parker and Randle are mutually exclusive.

Assume Parker signs in the fall, Randle next spring.

Parker wants to commit to Duke. That may well close the door on Randle.

I take Parker and take my chances with Randle.

What would you do?

BTW, in my earlier example, Carrawell turned out to be ACC POY, while Price was All-ACC as a soph. Not chopped liver.

But Price and Chappell were significant underachievers, after showing great early promise. An indication of why this is as much art as science and why the coaches get paid the big bucks to figure it all out.

Considering that for us to get either of these players is probably less than 50%, you definitely take Parker and, as you stated, take your chances on Randle. From a strategic point of view, that gets you the best odds and will lead to the highest chance of getting one player.

But in the hypothetical world where you can only choose one player, I'd choose Randle for team needs.

And lastly, does anyone think that our chances of getting both players is equivalent is unconditional probability? Me thinks that if the probability of getting each is 33% (NOTE: this is an example, not my actual thought on the odds), then the probability of getting both is significantly less than 11% (33% * 33%). I think its completely conditional, so that the odds of getting one severely reduces the odds of getting both. With such a stacked Duke team already, I just don't see it. Call me a pessimist.

[CDu]

Okay, let me ask you and others a perhaps hypothetical question.

Assume Parker and Randle are mutually exclusive.

Assume Parker signs in the fall, Randle next spring.

Parker wants to commit to Duke. That may well close the door on Randle.

I take Parker and take my chances with Randle.

What would you do?

BTW, in my earlier example, Carrawell turned out to be ACC POY, while Price was All-ACC as a soph. Not chopped liver.

But Price and Chappell were significant underachievers, after showing great early promise. An indication of why this is as much art as science and why the coaches get paid the big bucks to figure it all out.

Obviously you take the bird in the hand over the slightly-more-need-filling bird in the bush. No hesitation in that hypothetical - it shouldn't even be debatable. But that's an entirely separate point of discussion than what I was discussing. Again, I was never suggesting we spurn Parker in favor of Randle. I HOPE WE GET BOTH OF THEM!!! I was merely stating that Randle happens to fill more of a need.

The hypothetical I was discussing would more accurately be one in which we had an equal shot at both and they both decide on the same day, I think Randle fits the team's needs more than Parker. But if it came down to choosing between the certainty of getting Parker or waiting on the possibility of Randle (I absolutely hope we aren't stuck in this situation, and I suspect we won't be), you take Parker and never look back. Then, you hope that Hairston is good enough as a backup C for that season, or you hope that Randle decides to come anyway.

[CDu]

And while nobody has actually SAID we should go after Randle and not Parker, what else is to be inferred from repeated statements about Randle filling a bigger need for us or being "a more important get" for Duke??

Contrary to your suggestion here, there is actually quite a bit of room between "one guy fills more of a need" and "don't go after the other guy." There's no reason the only inference should be that we should go after Randle and not Parker. As I said (and you said), we should be going after BOTH. The only point of discussion is that, in the hypothetical where we could only get one and there was an equal probability of each and similar timing of decision, Randle fits more of a need. So in that purely hypothetical scenario (and ONLY in that scenario), yes, the inference would be to go after Randle and not Parker. But obviously that hypothetical is unlikely to play out, as (a) we should have scholarships available to both, (b) they'll decide at different times, and (c) there's no reason to assume they have equivalent interest in Duke. So there's no reason not to go for both.

But again, there's absolutely no reason that the only inference one could obtain is that we're suggesting we go after Randle and not Parker. That's just poor reasoning of what was written.

[Greg_Newton]

From recent rumblings (example (http://espn.go.com/chicago/story/_/id/8228055/top-recruit-jabari-parker-not-commit-spring)), it seems Jabari is pretty unlikely to commit before the Spring period anyway. Good news for Duke, IMO, and makes the debate (non-debate?) below even less of an issue. For now, at least.

[jimsumner]

From recent rumblings (example (http://espn.go.com/chicago/story/_/id/8228055/top-recruit-jabari-parker-not-commit-spring)), it seems Jabari is pretty unlikely to commit before the Spring period anyway. Good news for Duke, IMO, and makes the debate (non-debate?) below even less of an issue. For now, at least.

A number of folks more clued in to recruiting than me continue to tell me they still expect a fall decision from Parker.

We'll see.

But there's a very real possibility Duke will enter the spring with only one scholarship left.

Let's go to the scorecard.

Duke currently has ten committed scholarships for 2013-14.

By class

Seniors-Dawkins, Thornton, Hairston
Juniors-Cook
Sophomores-Murphy, Plumlee, Hood, Sulaimon, Jefferson
Freshmen-Jones

That leaves three scholarships.

Now let's deal with Dawkins. I have no idea if he comes back or when he decides. Not trying to drop any wink-wink, nudge-nudge hints here.
But until and unless he categorically tells Duke he's not coming back, Duke has to hold a scholarship for him.

I can't see anyone leaving early for the NBA after this season and I don't think we can assume other attrition. Can't rule it out but sure can't count on it.

So, we still have three available scholarships.

Duke wants a big other than Randle. Actionable offers are out to Marcus Lee and Austin Nichols and Duke is at least kicking the tires on Damion Jones.

Duke wants a wing other than Parker. Duke has offers out to Semi Ojeleye, Robert Hubbs, Al Freeman and Ishmail Wainwright.

Everything I have heard indicates Duke very much wants a fall LOI from one of group A and one of group B.

So, you can do the math as well as me.

[luvdahops]

A number of folks more clued in to recruiting than me continue to tell me they still expect a fall decision from Parker.

We'll see.

But there's a very real possibility Duke will enter the spring with only one scholarship left.

Let's go to the scorecard.

Duke currently has ten committed scholarships for 2013-14.

By class

Seniors-Dawkins, Thornton, Hairston
Juniors-Cook
Sophomores-Murphy, Plumlee, Hood, Sulaimon, Jefferson
Freshmen-Jones

That leaves three scholarships.

Now let's deal with Dawkins. I have no idea if he comes back or when he decides. Not trying to drop any wink-wink, nudge-nudge hints here.
But until and unless he categorically tells Duke he's not coming back, Duke has to hold a scholarship for him.

I can't see anyone leaving early for the NBA after this season and I don't think we can assume other attrition. Can't rule it out but sure can't count on it.

So, we still have three available scholarships.

Duke wants a big other than Randle. Actionable offers are out to Marcus Lee and Austin Nichols and Duke is at least kicking the tires on Damion Jones.

Duke wants a wing other than Parker. Duke has offers out to Semi Ojeleye, Robert Hubbs, Al Freeman and Ishmail Wainwright.

Everything I have heard indicates Duke very much wants a fall LOI from one of group A and one of group B.

So, you can do the math as well as me.

One other thing that needs to be considered is what the coaching staff expects from Amile in terms of physical maturation over the next year+. Those who have seen him live at the Pro Am suggest that Amile is already a legit 6-9, and possibly 6-10. IF (and I recognize that this is a very big IF) he can put on ~20-25 pounds of lean muscle, he could very well be able to defend the 5 as a sophomore. If so, a primary post rotation of Parker, Plumlee and Jefferson sounds pretty good to me.

[gumbomoop]

Duke currently has ten committed scholarships for 2013-14.

By class

Seniors-Dawkins, Thornton, Hairston
Juniors-Cook
Sophomores-Murphy, Plumlee, Hood, Sulaimon, Jefferson
Freshmen-Jones

That leaves three scholarships.

Now let's deal with Dawkins.... Until and unless he categorically tells Duke he's not coming back, Duke has to hold a scholarship for him.

I can't see anyone leaving early for the NBA after this season and I don't think we can assume other attrition. Can't rule it out but sure can't count on it.

So, we still have three available scholarships.

Duke wants a big other than Randle. Actionable offers are out to Marcus Lee and Austin Nichols and Duke is at least kicking the tires on Damion Jones.

Duke wants a wing other than Parker. Duke has offers out to Semi Ojeleye, Robert Hubbs, Al Freeman and Ishmail Wainwright.

Everything I have heard indicates Duke very much wants a fall LOI from one of group A and one of group B.

So, you can do the math as well as me.

This is a very useful post [and I realize jimsumner doesn't really need any praise from me.....] I appreciate the use of the word "big" for 4s/5s, and "wing" for 2s/3s.

Most intriguing to me are the 2 statements re "other than Randle" and "other than Parker," both of which imply - doing the math, as suggested - that the staff are willing to hold one scholarship until spring 2014 in hopes of securing either Parker or Randle, but do not prefer to hold 2 scholarships until spring 2014. Further, the staff's preference for a Fall 2013 LOI from one wing and one big "other than...." helps explain the pretty obvious wide, wide net being cast already in terms of "actionable offers."

And this ...


One other thing that needs to be considered is what the coaching staff expects from Amile in terms of physical maturation over the next year+. Those who have seen him live at the Pro Am suggest that Amile is already a legit 6-9, and possibly 6-10. IF (and I recognize that this is a very big IF) he can put on ~20-25 pounds of lean muscle, he could very well be able to defend the 5 as a sophomore.

... is pretty intriguing, too! I continue to believe that for 2013-'14, Josh, not possible Fr Randle nor possible frosh Lee, will be the main backup C [esp on D, which seems to be the main concern]. I don't deny that a Randle or a Lee might log a few minutes defending the 5. And the prospect of a stronger, not to mention longer, Jefferson is tantalizing, for in HS he certainly seems to have defended the 5 willingly, regularly, and competently.

We're gold.

[Kedsy]

backup C [esp on D, which seems to be the main concern]

Personally, I think it's the only concern in this discussion. With the kind of talent we're amassing, we don't need a backup back-to-the-basket offensive player. We just need to make sure we can defend all five positions for 40 minutes.

[ChillinDuke]

Personally, I think it's the only concern in this discussion. With the kind of talent we're amassing, we don't need a backup back-to-the-basket offensive player. We just need to make sure we can defend all five positions for 40 minutes.

My take, exactly.

And we already have this! Between MP3, Josh, and Amile, we definitely have the bodies to guard the tallest dudes in Div I basketball for 40 minutes. Not to mention our wings could probably chip in as well if we really needed it. After all, they are 6'8".

We have height and versatility already. That's why I'm not really buying into the whole "position of need" discussion. We want both. We'll take either.

And more importantly, as Jim Sumner has already emphasized, the coaching staff has already extended offers to big men other than Parker and Randle which seems to mitigate the relevance of Randle filling a position of need.

- Chillin

[Greg_Newton]

Hate to keep being a Debbie Downer on this thread, but we really don't have anyone than Marshall who has given us reason to believe that they can effectively defend the 5. Jefferson was forced to defend the 5 in HS; he also struggled doing it. When he played Tarczewski's team, he was pretty thoroughly dominated on the defensive end, physically, and he's said himself that his frame isn't one that will allow him to add major weight. Hairston is bulkier, but is a short-armed 6'7 with very little vertical explosion. When he's guarded centers thus far, they've simply shot right over him.

[-bdbd]

Contrary to your suggestion here, there is actually quite a bit of room between "one guy fills more of a need" and "don't go after the other guy." There's no reason the only inference should be that we should go after Randle and not Parker. As I said (and you said), we should be going after BOTH. The only point of discussion is that, in the hypothetical where we could only get one and there was an equal probability of each and similar timing of decision, Randle fits more of a need. So in that purely hypothetical scenario (and ONLY in that scenario), yes, the inference would be to go after Randle and not Parker. But obviously that hypothetical is unlikely to play out, as (a) we should have scholarships available to both, (b) they'll decide at different times, and (c) there's no reason to assume they have equivalent interest in Duke. So there's no reason not to go for both.

But again, there's absolutely no reason that the only inference one could obtain is that we're suggesting we go after Randle and not Parker. That's just poor reasoning of what was written.

Despite the assertion otherwise (twice), the word "only" appears nowhere in my post. That's just poor reading of what was written.
"And while nobody has actually SAID we should go after Randle and not Parker, what else is to be inferred from repeated statements about Randle filling a bigger need for us or being "a more imporatant get" for Duke??"
And it is pretty clearly AN inference, if one feels compelled to wax on about which of the two recruits is more important to us -- ultimately it is to choose in the "hypothetical" circumstance of only having one schollie and having BOTH superstars wanting to accept. That's the whole point of prioritizing usually, one as "1a" and the other as "1b." The reason I think it is a silly discussion is simply b/c the odds of such a situation occuring are essentially nil - where we've used up all other scholarships, AND both kids want to commit here, AND we have no other outs (such as convincing another player to go off scholarship for a year, etc). K and staff are just way too deliberate in their recruiting process for this alignment of disparate stars would ever be allowed to occur.

I think a bit more likely scenrio, if we have to do hypotheticals, would be whether to hold a (final) scholarship for Randle if, say, we still are one of five schools still in play and another interior super-recruit, such as Lee wants to commit now. But these decisions are never made in a vaccuum, and I think there is always a third or fourth path that could be created (such as telling the Randle-type recruit the slot is his IF he takes it before X date, OR getting another kid to go off-scholarship for a year, or something else...). Hell, Calipari's method was just to refuse to renew the scholarships of some existing upper-classmen players. Problem solved! (at least at KY)

I like Jim Sumner's summation:
we still have three available scholarships.

Duke wants a big other than Randle. Actionable offers are out to Marcus Lee and Austin Nichols and Duke is at least kicking the tires on Damion Jones.

Duke wants a wing other than Parker. Duke has offers out to Semi Ojeleye, Robert Hubbs, Al Freeman and Ishmail Wainwright.

Everything I have heard indicates Duke very much wants a fall LOI from one of group A and one of group B.

And I suppose nobody here knows, but with all of those outstanding scolarships, are any of them conditional (??) and what happens if two kids from the same group - sich as Semi Ojeleye and Robert Hubbs - call up K and say "we want to commit together." Once you get into these hypotheticals, any number of scenarios become imaginable I guess, though some obviously more possible than others...

:rolleyes:

[dcar1985]

Hate to keep being a Debbie Downer on this thread, but we really don't have anyone than Marshall who has given us reason to believe that they can effectively defend the 5. Jefferson was forced to defend the 5 in HS; he also struggled doing it. When he played Tarczewski's team, he was pretty thoroughly dominated on the defensive end, physically, and he's said himself that his frame isn't one that will allow him to add major weight. Hairston is bulkier, but is a short-armed 6'7 with very little vertical explosion. When he's guarded centers thus far, they've simply shot right over him.

Agree completely...having bodies doesn't mean they can actually defend

[licc85]

Agree completely...having bodies doesn't mean they can actually defend

The same could be said of Julius Randle. I just looked on ESPN, they have him listed at 6'9" 225. Scout.com has him at 6'8" 215. He's literally like maybe an inch taller than Jabari and maybe 5 pounds heavier. I just don't get it. Label a guy a power forward, and he's automatically capable of defending centers? So the "bigger need" on our team is a someone who is less skilled, slower, with shorter arms, and less athletic, but is just slightly larger?

[CDu]

Despite the assertion otherwise (twice), the word "only" appears nowhere in my post. That's just poor reading of what was written.
"And while nobody has actually SAID we should go after Randle and not Parker, what else is to be inferred from repeated statements about Randle filling a bigger need for us or being "a more imporatant get" for Duke??"

The words "what else is to be inferred" seems to clearly suggest that you felt your inference was the only reasonable inference. That's what I inferred from your quote, hence my use of the word "only."

Now, I may be biased here, but it would seem that my inference from your quote makes MUCH more sense than your inference from my quotes:
- There are LOTS of reasonable scenarios in which "one guy fills a bigger need" does not imply "we should go after that guy and not go after the other guy." Especially, since, as we both have stated, we have scholarships available for BOTH. And also especially since I have also stated in multiple places that I want to get BOTH.
- There appears to be only one reasonable way to take your quote, and that is that you don't see another alternative way to read my post and are asking me to provide another alternative.

The rest of your post is irrelevant, because I don't think we actually disagree on most of the hypothetical scenarios.

But to be clear, if we had only one scholarship to offer, we had an equal chance to get both, we had the exact same team needs as we currently do, and both were to decide at the same time, then yes: I'd rather have Randle because he fills a bigger need. But the hypothetical "one scholarship available" situation is almost certainly not going to play out, and it's basically the only scenario in which we'd be in a "go after one guy and not the other" situation. So we get to my point that jumping to your inference makes little sense.

[dcar1985]

The same could be said of Julius Randle. I just looked on ESPN, they have him listed at 6'9" 225. Scout.com has him at 6'8" 215. He's literally like maybe an inch taller than Jabari and maybe 5 pounds heavier. I just don't get it. Label a guy a power forward, and he's automatically capable of defending centers? So the "bigger need" on our team is a someone who is less skilled, slower, with shorter arms, and less athletic, but is just slightly larger?

Yea I've already pretty much said that earlier in this thread....Nothing I've seen from Randle says he can or wants to play the 5 on O or D...He doesn't play the 5 for his AAU squad or at Prestonwood...He's slightly bigger than Jabari, I would argue that he's more athletic though..But besides the fact that hes very physical when going to the cup I really don't see what about his game necessarily fills a "need" at Duke. Having said that I'd love to have him at Duke BUT in the hypothetical "we only have one scholly, who does it go too game?" Give me Parker all day.

[CDu]

Yea I've already pretty much said that earlier in this thread....Nothing I've seen from Randle says he can or wants to play the 5 on O or D...He doesn't play the 5 for his AAU squad or at Prestonwood...He's slightly bigger than Jabari, I would argue that he's more athletic though..But besides the fact that hes very physical when going to the cup I really don't see what about his game necessarily fills a "need" at Duke. Having said that I'd love to have him at Duke BUT in the hypothetical "we only have one scholly, who does it go too game?" Give me Parker all day.

If he really can't play the 5, then I would agree. Parker would be the better option when looking at a 3/4 player. My entire rationale for saying he fills more of a need is that, for a year, he could be a 4/5 player. But if he's really "just" a 4, then my opinion would lean back toward Parker in that hypothetical "one scholly" situation. I am basing my "need" argument on the fact that he is bigger, more physical, and more athletic. As such, he would seem more capable of handling a part-time (i.e., 10-15 mpg) role at the 5 in addition to being the primary 4 man. But yes, if he can't play the 5, then the calculus changes.

The one constant being that it would be great to get either or both.

[Li_Duke]

Both Parker and Randle have been somewhat fluid in their committment time-lines. But it does seem quite possible that Parker will sign this fall, while Randle waits until spring 2013.

Randle might make more sense than Parker. Might not. But Duke cannot possibly take the gamble of backing off Parker and hoping for Randle. Duke loves Parker and he is the highest priority. They feel the same way about Randle. But if Parker is ready to go, then you go.

No offense to Murphy or Hairston or Jefferson but Parker appears to be at another level. Some have described Parker as a "luxury" recruit for Duke. That's like saying Kobe Bryant was a luxury recruit in 1996 because Duke already had Chris Carrawell, Mike Chappell and Ricky Price, all pretty good college wings.

Jabari Parker has the potential to be at that level. Pull out all the stops.

Going back to your early analogy, that year we had Trajan Langdon, Ricky Price, Chris Carrawell, Mike Chappell, and Nate James (highest rated of the 3 recruits) - as promising a group of 2-4s as we have now. And we had as big a dearth of big men then as we do now (Greg Newton, Taymon Domzalski). I think we would still have taken Kobe even if it was mutually exclusive with taking whoever was the best big man back then (Jermaine O'Neal?).

I'd love to get Parker and Randle both, but if we can only get one - I'd rather have Parker over Randle (and get a guy like Nichols). I'm also happy getting whomever commits first.

[ChillinDuke]

If he really can't play the 5, then I would agree. Parker would be the better option when looking at a 3/4 player. My entire rationale for saying he fills more of a need is that, for a year, he could be a 4/5 player. But if he's really "just" a 4, then my opinion would lean back toward Parker in that hypothetical "one scholly" situation. I am basing my "need" argument on the fact that he is bigger, more physical, and more athletic. As such, he would seem more capable of handling a part-time (i.e., 10-15 mpg) role at the 5 in addition to being the primary 4 man. But yes, if he can't play the 5, then the calculus changes.

The one constant being that it would be great to get either or both.

Does the calculus change if Parker can play/guard the 5?

Not trying to gang up on you, but I think this is the crux of what others are saying. Neither Parker nor Randle is really a 5 and neither has evidenced his likelihood of becoming/playing a 5. So why is Randle the bigger "need"? Your view seems to stem from Randle being/playing the 5 which has not been brought to my attention to this point in his recruitment.

Note: I don't like forcing a player into a number.

- Chillin

[jimsumner]

Going back to your early analogy, that year we had Trajan Langdon, Ricky Price, Chris Carrawell, Mike Chappell, and Nate James (highest rated of the 3 recruits) - as promising a group of 2-4s as we have now. And we had as big a dearth of big men then as we do now (Greg Newton, Taymon Domzalski). I think we would still have taken Kobe even if it was mutually exclusive with taking whoever was the best big man back then (Jermaine O'Neal?).

I'd love to get Parker and Randle both, but if we can only get one - I'd rather have Parker over Randle (and get a guy like Nichols). I'm also happy getting whomever commits first.

As an aside, Jason Collier was the big guy Duke missed on from that class.

[CDu]

Does the calculus change if Parker can play/guard the 5?

Yes. Do you think Parker can play/guard the 5? I don't. I happen to think that Randle can. You are free to disagree.


Not trying to gang up on you, but I think this is the crux of what others are saying. Neither Parker nor Randle is really a 5 and neither has evidenced his likelihood of becoming/playing a 5. So why is Randle the bigger "need"? Your view seems to stem from Randle being/playing the 5 which has not been brought to my attention to this point in his recruitment.

First, I take no offense to someone disagreeing with me and I take no issue with a good healthy debate. I don't view Randle as a starting 5, or even primarily a 5. I view him as a 4 who can play some 5. My view stems from Randle being more capable of playing the 5 for 10-15 mpg than Parker, and the fact that we have other pretty good options at the 3. Again, that's not to say that Parker wouldn't dramatically upgrade the SF position (or PF position for that matter). Just saying that I think Randle would upgrade the PF position and the backup C position, and that's where the bigger need currently lies.


Note: I don't like forcing a player into a number.

This is not forcing a player into a number. It's noting what positions a player can reasonably defend. In my opinion, the "Coach K doesn't believe in positions" thing has been taken way too far by some on DBR (not saying you're guilty of that). Coach K simply doesn't want players to pigeonhole themselves unnecessarily, but positions DO matter insomuch as he isn't going to put a guy in a position that the player can't defend. For example, Zoubek would never play anywhere but C except on VERY temporary switches. Same for Marshall Plumlee. Conversely, Cook isn't going to be asked to guard C. Nor was Dockery, Irving, Wojo, Hurley, or Smith.

So as I said above, my view stems from the fact that I think Randle is more capable of defending the C position for 10-15 mpg than Parker, and his upgrade in value at PF and backup C is slightly more of a need than Parker's upgrade at SF (where we have pretty good options) and PF. Again, if you disagree with that assessment, that's perfectly fine. What I won't accept is folks who incorrectly take my viewpoint and pigeonhole it as though I'm suggesting we go after Randle and not Parker. I view their roles as separate entities, and I want both of them.

[UrinalCake]

The only way I could see this being an either/or situation where we have to choose one of the two would be

a.) we run out of scholarships and can only offer one of them
b.) the players decide that they don't want to go to the same school because they overlap in skills too much or because they both want to be "the man"
c.) our coaching staff has a limited amount of resources and they would be spread too thin to try and recruit both players, so they have to choose one

I don't see a.) being an issue. It's possible, but we worry about this almost every year and it seldomly comes into play. I also don't see c.) being an issue. No reason we can't pull out all the stops for more than one player, even with Coach K off doing his thing with the National Team right now. So b.) would be the only real reason to not go after Parker in hopes of increasing our chances at landing Randle. And nothing that I've seen would indicate that this is even a consideration for him. So I agree with others that this is a fun debate to have but really not one we have to lose any sleep over.

[CDu]

The only way I could see this being an either/or situation where we have to choose one of the two would be

a.) we run out of scholarships and can only offer one of them
b.) the players decide that they don't want to go to the same school because they overlap in skills too much or because they both want to be "the man"
c.) our coaching staff has a limited amount of resources and they would be spread too thin to try and recruit both players, so they have to choose one

I don't see a.) being an issue. It's possible, but we worry about this almost every year and it seldomly comes into play. I also don't see c.) being an issue. No reason we can't pull out all the stops for more than one player, even with Coach K off doing his thing with the National Team right now. So b.) would be the only real reason to not go after Parker in hopes of increasing our chances at landing Randle. And nothing that I've seen would indicate that this is even a consideration for him. So I agree with others that this is a fun debate to have but really not one we have to lose any sleep over.

Totally agree. Well said.

[ChillinDuke]

My last post and then I'll call it. Promise.


Yes. Do you think Parker can play/guard the 5? I don't. I happen to think that Randle can. You are free to disagree.

As good as Randle can. If not, negligibly worse (his athleticism/length makes up for the 1" or so). My point being neither can/should guard the 5. At least in the sense that Tyler Zeller (or an equivalent 7'-er) is a true 5.



First, I take no offense to someone disagreeing with me and I take no issue with a good healthy debate. I don't view Randle as a starting 5, or even primarily a 5. I view him as a 4 who can play some 5. My view stems from Randle being more capable of playing the 5 for 10-15 mpg than Parker, and the fact that we have other pretty good options at the 3. Again, that's not to say that Parker wouldn't dramatically upgrade the SF position (or PF position for that matter). Just saying that I think Randle would upgrade the PF position and the backup C position, and that's where the bigger need currently lies.

Well said. Again, my view is this is negligible.



This is not forcing a player into a number. It's noting what positions a player can reasonably defend. In my opinion, the "Coach K doesn't believe in positions" thing has been taken way too far by some on DBR (not saying you're guilty of that). Coach K simply doesn't want players to pigeonhole themselves unnecessarily, but positions DO matter insomuch as he isn't going to put a guy in a position that the player can't defend. For example, Zoubek would never play anywhere but C except on VERY temporary switches. Same for Marshall Plumlee. Conversely, Cook isn't going to be asked to guard C. Nor was Dockery, Irving, Wojo, Hurley, or Smith.

I agree with you insofar as Quinn Cook shouldn't guard centers. My point being, again, that we are nitpicking between who can guard 5s when they are about 6'8" / 6'9". This is not Quinn Cook guarding centers. It's a tall 3/4 guarding a 5. Again negligible / unproven difference between the two.



So as I said above, my view stems from the fact that I think Randle is more capable of defending the C position for 10-15 mpg than Parker, and his upgrade in value at PF and backup C is slightly more of a need than Parker's upgrade at SF (where we have pretty good options) and PF. Again, if you disagree with that assessment, that's perfectly fine. What I won't accept is folks who incorrectly take my viewpoint and pigeonhole it as though I'm suggesting we go after Randle and not Parker. I view their roles as separate entities, and I want both of them.

Absolutely. 100%.


- Chillin

[-bdbd]

The only way I could see this being an either/or situation where we have to choose one of the two would be

a.) we run out of scholarships and can only offer one of them
b.) the players decide that they don't want to go to the same school because they overlap in skills too much or because they both want to be "the man"
c.) our coaching staff has a limited amount of resources and they would be spread too thin to try and recruit both players, so they have to choose one

I don't see a.) being an issue. It's possible, but we worry about this almost every year and it seldomly comes into play. I also don't see c.) being an issue. No reason we can't pull out all the stops for more than one player, even with Coach K off doing his thing with the National Team right now. So b.) would be the only real reason to not go after Parker in hopes of increasing our chances at landing Randle. And nothing that I've seen would indicate that this is even a consideration for him. So I agree with others that this is a fun debate to have but really not one we have to lose any sleep over.

Absolutely agree UC. Thanks for summarizing. The point is that, in any realistic universe, if these two kids would have us - we should be so lucky (!) - then Duke will certainly find ways to accommodate both young men. No doubt whatsoever. Which for me, at least, makes the "hypothetical" so incredibly unrealistic as not to merit time discussiong (I'm much more of a mindset to discusss scenarios that actually COULD bear out in some real world eventuality (such as the one I mentioned above where a "lesser" recruit who fills a clear need is ready to commit, the example was a Center like Lee, but a superstar with whom we only have a 20% (?) chance wants to wait until Sping....) I'm sure coaches deal with those situations frequently.


The words "what else is to be inferred" seems to clearly suggest that you felt your inference was the only reasonable inference. That's what I inferred from your quote, hence my use of the word "only."

Now, I may be biased here, but it would seem that my inference from your quote makes MUCH more sense than your inference from my quotes:
- There are LOTS of reasonable scenarios in which "one guy fills a bigger need" does not imply "we should go after that guy and not go after the other guy." Especially, since, as we both have stated, we have scholarships available for BOTH. And also especially since I have also stated in multiple places that I want to get BOTH.
- There appears to be only one reasonable way to take your quote, and that is that you don't see another alternative way to read my post and are asking me to provide another alternative.

The rest of your post is irrelevant, because I don't think we actually disagree on most of the hypothetical scenarios.


Whatever. Please try to have some broader perspective, as you are not the only reader on this board. A post intended for a broader group discussion is not solely aimed at you. So while a post may be "irrelevant" to you and your focus on a single, totally unrealistic "hypothetical," it IS still relevant to everyone else (for whom it was intended).
Contrary to your description, nobody on here ever said anything contrary to the characterization re "one guy fills a bigger need," nor did anybody here state that that statment implies "we should go after that guy and not go after the other guy." What WAS stated was that by ranking one guy above the other, AND by stating that the interior guy was the more important get, AND by proposing a "hypothetical" that we might have to choose between the two of them (and that you would then choose the interior-oriented superstar over the Wing one)... then you ARE, pretty clearly, stating that IN SOME UNIVERSE you would take Randle over Parker. But, again, the point I make is simply THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN. The points are not as far apart as I think you want to portray, other than how outlandish the hypothetical is (and hence how worthy of discussion it is/isn't). That's all.



BTW, on the grammar discussion you raise, "what else is to be inferred from X" is often used in literature as a surrogate for "how could you not infer Y from X..." though I can see how someone focused on a literal word-by-word read might misinterpret same. Perhaps I betray some of my English heritage/literary interests... :rolleyes:

[CDu]

BTW, on the grammar discussion you raise, "what else is to be inferred from X" is often used in literature as a surrogate for "how could you not infer Y from X..." though I can see how someone focused on a literal word-by-word read might misinterpret same. Perhaps I betray some of my English heritage/literary interests... :rolleyes:

Yes, I understand what the phrase means. And "how can you not infer Y from X" is basically the same thing as "Y is the reasonable inference one should take from X." When in fact, in this case, Y is most certainly NOT what most (if not all) were implying with the statement X. Almost everyone I've read in the Randle thread has openly stated that WE WANT BOTH GUYS! If most (if not all) of the folks who have said that they think Randle fills more of a need ALSO want both of these guys, doesn't that also suggest that perhaps your inference (Y) isn't the appropriate inference from the original statement (X)?

So forgive me for using the word "only." There may be a very subtle difference between "only" and what I wrote in the above paragraph. Your inference is absolutely a possible inference, but it is far from the logical extension of X. But there is nothing about X that necessitates Y. And in this case, your inference was not the correct one.

So, how could one NOT infer Y from X? Maybe by simply understanding that (a) there is more than one scholarship, (b) the two play different positions, and (c) there's no evidence that the two are mutually exclusive in any other way? The logical extension of X in this case is "I want Randle a bit more than I want Parker." That's a logically different statement. The only way for that Y to equal your Y would be if there is some reason that the two players are mutually exclusive. And as has been noted numerous times, that's not the case.

As for my "lack of broader perspective", whatever. Your last several posts in this thread are direct replies to my post. So forgive me for thinking that (in this case) your response was intended for me.

[Greg_Newton]

This is not forcing a player into a number. It's noting what positions a player can reasonably defend.

I think it's also worth adding that when we're talking about post players, it's not just defending, it's rebounding. Randle is much stronger, more athletic, and more physical than Jabari, and is a better rebounder; he's not ideally suited for the 5, but is certainly more so than Jabari.

[CDu]

I think it's also worth adding that when we're talking about post players, it's not just defending, it's rebounding. Randle is much stronger, more athletic, and more physical than Jabari, and is a better rebounder; he's not ideally suited for the 5, but is certainly more so than Jabari.

Agreed. I'm certainly willing to at least entertain the possibility that Parker can handle the 5 as well as Randle can. But only if it is in the "neither guy can do it" sense. I think that Randle's advantage in size, strength, athleticism, and physical style make him more capable to handle the backup 5 minutes than Parker. Folks are more than welcome to disagree with that, but I think it's a reasonable argument.

In any case, here's hoping we get both players. If we do, we'll be a HEAVY HEAVY favorite to win yet another ACC title and make yet another Final Four.

[UrinalCake]

According to Duke Hoop Blog (http://www.dukehoopblog.com/2012/08/08/post-july-duke-prospect-rankings/#utm_source=feed&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=feed), the recruiting service called "24/7 Sports" has Randle ranked ahead of Parker. Parker is #4, which is really surprising. The other services shown (ESPN, Rivals, and Scout) have Parker at 1 and Randle between 2-4.

Also all over the map is Matt Jones, who is ranked anywhere from 26 to 53. Again the 24/7 Sports list seems to be the outlier, the other three all have him between 26 and 33.

[licc85]

According to Duke Hoop Blog (http://www.dukehoopblog.com/2012/08/08/post-july-duke-prospect-rankings/#utm_source=feed&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=feed), the recruiting service called "24/7 Sports" has Randle ranked ahead of Parker. Parker is #4, which is really surprising. The other services shown (ESPN, Rivals, and Scout) have Parker at 1 and Randle between 2-4.

Also all over the map is Matt Jones, who is ranked anywhere from 26 to 53. Again the 24/7 Sports list seems to be the outlier, the other three all have him between 26 and 33.

I hadn't heard of 24/7 sports until I read that blog post yesterday. If you google it, it's primarily a football recruiting site. I'm not sure how credible their bball scouts are . . . I'm not sure I'm going to take their rankings very seriously . . . Maybe they are ranking how good these bball players would be if they played football?

[Greg_Newton]

I hadn't heard of 24/7 sports until I read that blog post yesterday. If you google it, it's primarily a football recruiting site. I'm not sure how credible their bball scouts are . . . I'm not sure I'm going to take their rankings very seriously . . . Maybe they are ranking how good these bball players would be if they played football?

Jerry Meyer is in charge of their bball scouting, so they should be somewhat credible.

[COYS]

According to Duke Hoop Blog (http://www.dukehoopblog.com/2012/08/08/post-july-duke-prospect-rankings/#utm_source=feed&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=feed), the recruiting service called "24/7 Sports" has Randle ranked ahead of Parker. Parker is #4, which is really surprising. The other services shown (ESPN, Rivals, and Scout) have Parker at 1 and Randle between 2-4.

Also all over the map is Matt Jones, who is ranked anywhere from 26 to 53. Again the 24/7 Sports list seems to be the outlier, the other three all have him between 26 and 33.

Jabari probably suffers a bit because of his recent injury, whether fair or unfair. His injury combined with Randle's excellent play during the summer circuit probably leaves a lot of scouts with a slightly better impression of Randle. That being said, while being ranked number 1 is nice, any recruit in the top 5 is likely to be an instant impact player. As we all know, Barnes was #1 in 2010 when it was Kyrie who established himself as the clear-cut choice for best recruit out of that class.

[Ichabod Drain]

According to Duke Hoop Blog (http://www.dukehoopblog.com/2012/08/08/post-july-duke-prospect-rankings/#utm_source=feed&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=feed), the recruiting service called "24/7 Sports" has Randle ranked ahead of Parker. Parker is #4, which is really surprising. The other services shown (ESPN, Rivals, and Scout) have Parker at 1 and Randle between 2-4.

Also all over the map is Matt Jones, who is ranked anywhere from 26 to 53. Again the 24/7 Sports list seems to be the outlier, the other three all have him between 26 and 33.

For another perspective Max Preps, run by CBS sports, has Jabari all the way down at #5. On a bright note though it has Matt Jones at #10. It's pretty impossible to judge credibility of these rankings. Even someone credible like Telep can muff stuff up. It's just interesting to see how they all vary.

http://www.maxpreps.com/news/llDKBonpdkuLF1WNKddlIw/harrison-twins-top-post-summer-basketball-class-of-2013-top-100.htm

[gam7]

For another perspective Max Preps, run by CBS sports, has Jabari all the way down at #5. On a bright note though it has Matt Jones at #10. It's pretty impossible to judge credibility of these rankings. Even someone credible like Telep can muff stuff up. It's just interesting to see how they all vary.

http://www.maxpreps.com/news/llDKBonpdkuLF1WNKddlIw/harrison-twins-top-post-summer-basketball-class-of-2013-top-100.htm

I've seen Parker and Jones play in person (albeit for limited periods of time - certainly not as extensively as a recruiting site like MaxPreps), and I would say that a ranking that has Parker and Jones only five spots apart either underrates Jabari or overrates Jones. That's not a knock on Jones. It's just that Jabari seemed better in all facets, except spot up shooting.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I've seen Parker and Jones play in person (albeit for limited periods of time - certainly not as extensively as a recruiting site like MaxPreps), and I would say that a ranking that has Parker and Jones only five spots apart either underrates Jabari or overrates Jones. That's not a knock on Jones. It's just that Jabari seemed better in all facets, except spot up shooting.

So he's the anti-Barnes? Come to Duke, Jabari!

[slower]

Sigh. It's bad enough that we have to read links to the idiots at Bleacher Report, but do we REALLY have to be subjected to the lameness of some tool named Eric D. Graham at blackathlete.net? My kids could write better than that when they were in elementary school. Really, this is like reading the illiterate comments that invariably accompany any story on major sites. Pathetic.

[moonpie23]

pretty bold tho........without venturing into PPB, and bad writing aside, he is definitely calling Parker out on this subject...

[wilko]

Sigh. It's bad enough that we have to read links to the idiots at Bleacher Report, but do we REALLY have to be subjected to the lameness of some tool named Eric D. Graham at blackathlete.net? Pathetic.

I'm not sure that was really about Jabari. I think he was using Jabari to launch his attack on Mormonism. He seems more anxious in the article to grind his axe about the religion and point out what HE BELIEVES a black man should be.

Unfortunately writing about Young Mr Parker was just a vehicle to do that.

[slower]

I'm not sure that was really about Jabari. I think he was using Jabari to launch his attack on Mormonism. He seems more anxious in the article to grind his axe about the religion and point out what HE BELIEVES a black man should be.

Unfortunately writing about Young Mr Parker was just a vehicle to do that.

Honestly, I didn't read very much of the article. His writing is SO terrible that I just couldn't bear to continue.

[oldnavy]

pretty bold tho........without venturing into PPB, and bad writing aside, he is definitely calling Parker out on this subject...

Moonpie, I have to pick a nit with your use of the word BOLD, it sound complimentary. I can’t agree with complimenting this person’s attack on JP’s (or anyone’s) religious beliefs.

I get real tired of seeing people blasted by other people because they hold different beliefs. Why does this person care where JP goes to church or how he chooses to worship. What difference does it make to him or anyone else?

Ok, the writer has a problem with the history of the Mormon Church and religion in general. I have a very simple solution for him, don’t go to church. If you feel the need to attack those institutions then limit your attack to the institution. But what an individual chooses to believe in or worship is none of his business and I for one do not care nor do I care what the writer thinks about that individual’s choice, so I must confess as to not reading the entire article, I needed to stop about two paragraphs in.

This may cross over into PPB, and if so please strike it, but the writer of this article must be one unhappy person. I think that as long as he is looking back at history he is going to be very depressed and unhappy with just about every nation, religion, political party, etc.. Why not choose to celebrate the gains and changes that have occurred and continue to build on those rather than wallow in the sins of the past?

[moonpie23]

well, i meant "bold" in the sense that he KNEW he was putting up a lightning rod for his comments......and did so anyway....


and yes, if you disagree with that church's religion "in general" you can just not attend that church.....i think that he was pointing out the Mormonism "view" of blacks in general......he was taking it personally.

[oldnavy]

well, i meant "bold" in the sense that he KNEW he was putting up a lightning rod for his comments......and did so anyway....

I guessed as much. Your posts are always enjoyable and I have a hard time finding anything to disagee with you on.

I think the guy is just full of bitterness and would take any chance at all to express that. Sad.

[DukeBlueHeart4]

I think the guy is just full of bitterness and would take any chance at all to express that. Sad.

I completely agree. His was clearly looking for any avenue to spew his idiotic beliefs.

As I read the article I kept waiting for him ask "How can any black athlete play for a Southern university given the South's racist past?" That argument would hold about as much water as the one he made.

Either way, as a history teacher, I feel more proud of what I accomplish in my classroom with my students in terms of facing the ugly truths of our past and exploring the amazing changes that we as a nation have undergone simply because I feel confident that my students are much more aware of the complexities of life than Mr. Graham seems to be.

[G man]

Moonpie, I have to pick a nit with your use of the word BOLD, it sound complimentary. I can’t agree with complimenting this person’s attack on JP’s (or anyone’s) religious beliefs.

I get real tired of seeing people blasted by other people because they hold different beliefs. Why does this person care where JP goes to church or how he chooses to worship. What difference does it make to him or anyone else?

Ok, the writer has a problem with the history of the Mormon Church and religion in general. I have a very simple solution for him, don’t go to church. If you feel the need to attack those institutions then limit your attack to the institution. But what an individual chooses to believe in or worship is none of his business and I for one do not care nor do I care what the writer thinks about that individual’s choice, so I must confess as to not reading the entire article, I needed to stop about two paragraphs in.

This may cross over into PPB, and if so please strike it, but the writer of this article must be one unhappy person. I think that as long as he is looking back at history he is going to be very depressed and unhappy with just about every nation, religion, political party, etc.. Why not choose to celebrate the gains and changes that have occurred and continue to build on those rather than wallow in the sins of the past?

I felt this was totally of base. I agree he clearly has an issue with the Mormon church and white Christians in general. He is completely within rights to write about this issue. I just feel he should leave the young man out of it. What makes the author an expert on what ALL african american men should believe? Young people have enough struggles without having fight a religious battle as well.

[dukedoc]

Coach K will have an in-home with Jabari tonight. Hopefully K brings his gold medals, championship rings, and Jabari's favorite rapper.

On another note, apparently Jabari has added UConn to his list. Kind of an odd move given their recent academic troubles and his strong academic abilities (and desires). Long way to go on this one it seems.

[Greg_Newton]

Coach K will have an in-home with Jabari tonight. Hopefully K brings his gold medals, championship rings, and Jabari's favorite rapper.

Luckily, TJ Fredette (http://www.npr.org/2011/03/11/134367236/the-other-fredette-proud-brother-aspiring-rapper)'s appearance fee is much lower than Drake's. :p

[Class of '94]

Coach K will have an in-home with Jabari tonight. Hopefully K brings his gold medals, championship rings, and Jabari's favorite rapper.

On another note, apparently Jabari has added UConn to his list. Kind of an odd move given their recent academic troubles and his strong academic abilities (and desires). Long way to go on this one it seems.

Does anyone (without passing any specific information from pay sites or breaking confidentiality) have any idea on how the in-home visit went with Jabari and Coach K?

[killerleft]

However, in the triangle basketball is a "religion" to some fans just a few miles down the road from Durham....

As a true believer, baska-tized during the Freddie Lind Game (I'll always remember it for the oneness I felt with the universe), I assure you that the beautiful blue has its idolaters, too.:)

Go with Duke!!

[Native]

The Chronicle (http://sports.chronicleblogs.com/2012/09/25/jabari-parker-to-officially-visit-duke-october-27/) is reporting that Jabari will visit Duke on October 27th.

[NSDukeFan]

Does anyone (without passing any specific information from pay sites or breaking confidentiality) have any idea on how the in-home visit went with Jabari and Coach K?

Without knowing anything about the actual visit, I can probably assure you that the visit went very well, coach K outlined how Jabari would fit in at Duke, coach K is a great communicator and it was great for Jabari and his family to speak with him and they had some good food.

[dukemsu]

Without knowing anything about the actual visit, I can probably assure you that the visit went very well, coach K outlined how Jabari would fit in at Duke, coach K is a great communicator and it was great for Jabari and his family to speak with him and they had some good food.

I heard that the in-home went well and that K compared Jabari with Deng. Sounds like it was a very good visit.

Jabari gave an interview that said he's not sure why everyone thinks Duke and MSU are out in front, he likes them but he likes all his schools. Visiting MSU this weekend, as posted above, Duke 10/27.

Florida appears to be making some headway here as well.

dukemsu

[TWRX5284]

Not sure if anyone saw this: http://www.kentucky.com/2012/09/25/2350031/jabari-parker-off-uk-basketballs.html#storylink=rss

[-bdbd]

Not sure if anyone saw this: http://www.kentucky.com/2012/09/25/2350031/jabari-parker-off-uk-basketballs.html#storylink=rss

Interesting. So KY appear out of the J. Parker sweepstakes. Kinda funny to see their fans' comments at the bottom - "we never really wanted him anyhow..."
and..."our other recruits are better."

Out of curiosity, given Duke's interior needs coming up, does anyone know why we are not in play for (Scout-rated) no. 1 Center from 2013, Kennedy Meeks from Charlotte? He's 6'9" and 260+ lbs. Seems like we'd want in on a kid so close to home. He just had a supposedly great in-home with NC, and the KY fans really seem to think that he's theirs for the taking. His schools include: KY, NC@ch and Ohio State. Are we still actively after other big-time C's this year, such as Lee from CA?

[ChillinDuke]

Interesting. So KY appear out of the J. Parker sweepstakes. Kinda funny to see their fans' comments at the bottom - "we never really wanted him anyhow..."
and..."our other recruits are better."

Out of curiosity, given Duke's interior needs coming up, does anyone know why we are not in play for (Scout-rated) no. 1 Center from 2013, Kennedy Meeks from Charlotte? He's 6'9" and 260+ lbs. Seems like we'd want in on a kid so close to home. He just had a supposedly great in-home with NC, and the KY fans really seem to think that he's theirs for the taking. His schools include: KY, NC@ch and Ohio State. Are we still actively after other big-time C's this year, such as Lee from CA?

The word around here is that Austin Nichols is the main 2013 big-man target at this time. [For 2014 it's Jahlil Okafor.]

Apparently between us and Vandy for Nichols. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

- Chillin

[dukedoc]

The word around here is that Austin Nichols is the main 2013 big-man target at this time. [For 2014 it's Jahlil Okafor.]

Apparently between us and Vandy for Nichols. Please correct me if I'm wrong. - Chillin


And of course Mr. Randle as well, although there's been more hubbub surrounding Kentucky, at least recently, in terms of his recruitment. Long way to go in that one, though.

I'm pretty sure Tennessee is also strong with Austin Nichols due to Robert Hubbs committing to them recently and Austin's sister's affiliation.

[roywhite]

Just my take from reading and watching some videos, but seems like Jabari Parker as a freshman would be somewhat similar to, and perhaps not as good as, Rodney Hood.

With versatile players for the 2013-14 roster like redshirt sophomore Alex Murphy, 2nd year player Amile Jefferson, and an experienced transfer in Hood, how much do we need a possible one-and-done like Parker in that same size range?

[Mike Corey]

Jabari Parker is a sensational talent. He starts anywhere he goes.

[Monmouth77]

Just my take from reading and watching some videos, but seems like Jabari Parker as a freshman would be somewhat similar to, and perhaps not as good as, Rodney Hood.

With versatile players for the 2013-14 roster like redshirt sophomore Alex Murphy, 2nd year player Amile Jefferson, and an experienced transfer in Hood, how much do we need a possible one-and-done like Parker in that same size range?

Perhaps in the same way that a team that had Brian Davis, Thomas Hill, and Antonio Lang, found a way to use Grant Hill. :)

[roywhite]

Jabari Parker is a sensational talent. He starts anywhere he goes.


Perhaps in the same way that a team that had Brian Davis, Thomas Hill, and Antonio Lang, found a way to use Grant Hill. :)

You make good points. A very talented, versatile player is an asset.

I'm just not hanging on the Jabari Parker recruitment....lots of schools involved, probably a one year player, and there are other talented players in the same size range.

Austin Nichols IMO is a more important, and desirable recruit.

[Greg_Newton]

The thing about Parker is that, like Randle, he would play PF if he came to Duke, for all intents and purposes (read: defense and rebounding), which he has indicated he'd has no problem doing.

So, it's not like he'd really be competing with Murphy/Hood/Sulaimon for those wing minutes as much as Jefferson/Hairston for PF minutes, in all likelihood. And as loaded as we'll be that year, I'm not sure if we have a classic, #1 scoring option just yet.

[JasonEvans]

Just my take from reading and watching some videos, but seems like Jabari Parker as a freshman would be somewhat similar to, and perhaps not as good as, Rodney Hood.

With versatile players for the 2013-14 roster like redshirt sophomore Alex Murphy, 2nd year player Amile Jefferson, and an experienced transfer in Hood, how much do we need a possible one-and-done like Parker in that same size range?

I'm just not hanging on the Jabari Parker recruitment....lots of schools involved, probably a one year player, and there are other talented players in the same size range.

Austin Nichols IMO is a more important, and desirable recruit.

I love ya Roy, but I can assure you that K does not share your opinion... at least from what I hear.

And, I might add, you are sorta dissing a kid who was on the freaking cover of SI while still in high school?!?! I want Austin Nichols a great deal and think his skills are a very nice fit for what Duke needs, but Parker is a legend in the making. He is that good.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2012-05/69960100.jpg

-Jason "yup, he's that good" Evans

[thenameisbond]

The word around here is that Austin Nichols is the main 2013 big-man target at this time. [For 2014 it's Jahlil Okafor.]

Apparently between us and Vandy for Nichols. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

- Chillin

UT is in the thick of things for Nichols too.

[jimsumner]

UT is in the thick of things for Nichols too.

Depending on who you believe, Nichols is favoring Duke and Vandy, Duke and UT, Duke, Vandy and UT; Duke, Vandy and Virginia; Duke, UT and Virginia or Duke and a player-to-be-named later.

You'll notice the constant.

[Lord Ash]

Depending on who you believe, Nichols is favoring Duke and Vandy, Duke and UT, Duke, Vandy and UT; Duke, Vandy and Virginia; Duke, UT and Virginia or Duke and a player-to-be-named later.

You'll notice the constant.

That when you discuss "Austin" being a Blue Devil people remind you that he already graduated?

Oh, you mean Duke. Never mind.

[English]

That when you discuss "Austin" being a Blue Devil people remind you that he already graduated?

Oh, you mean Duke. Never mind.

I'm sure there have been plenty of Austins that have graduated from Duke, but if we're thinking of the same one of MBB note (Rivers), he certainly didn't graduate. Not unless he took some summer classes at UNC that somehow counted toward the Duke degree.

[Lord Ash]

I'm sure there have been plenty of Austins that have graduated from Duke, but if we're thinking of the same one of MBB note (Rivers), he certainly didn't graduate. Not unless he took some summer classes at UNC that somehow counted toward the Duke degree.

Sorry, of course I meant "went to the NBA." I forget at times that everyone who leaves isn't necessarily a graduate.

[airowe]

Depending on who you believe, Nichols is favoring Duke and Vandy, Duke and UT, Duke, Vandy and UT; Duke, Vandy and Virginia; Duke, UT and Virginia or Duke and a player-to-be-named later.

You'll notice the constant.

He'll get to watch Duke and Virginia next weekend when he's in town. Hopefully, he'll see Duke Football going to 5-1 for the first time in? :cool:

[dcar1985]

Nothing breaking but Jabari is officially down to 5....Duke, Mich St, Stanford, Florida, and BYU.
Put me in the group who sees it as a two horse race between us and Sparty

[Duke09]

Nothing breaking but Jabari is officially down to 5....Duke, Mich St, Stanford, Florida, and BYU.
Put me in the group who sees it as a two horse race between us and Sparty

its a credit to dawkins for Stanford to be in that list

[Cameron]

I love ya Roy, but I can assure you that K does not share your opinion... at least from what I hear.

And, I might add, you are sorta dissing a kid who was on the freaking cover of SI while still in high school?!?! I want Austin Nichols a great deal and think his skills are a very nice fit for what Duke needs, but Parker is a legend in the making. He is that good.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2012-05/69960100.jpg

-Jason "yup, he's that good" Evans

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/002/163/483/SebastianTelfair_display_image.jpg?1335270801

Just sayin'. But, I agree with you and almost everyone here. I want Jabari Parker. From all accounts, he is definitely that good. And I have no doubt that he has the talent to make an enormous splash on the college level, even if just for a year. A legend in the making he may or may not be, but that's impossible to know this early on -- Dujaun Wagner once scored 100 points in a high school game and was anointed the next Iverson; he went missing in Poland in 2006 and no one, to my knowledge, has seen him since.

I hope Duke gets him. If we don't. Well, we've won championships the year after losing out on must-have, phenom players before (i.e. John Wall 2009), so I won't kill myself. It will be a letdown, though, no doubt.

[JasonEvans]

Bassie was better as a soph in high school than he was as a senior. His hype was rapidly fading throughout his career. Heck, few even had him as a top 5 recruit by the time he graduated and went to the NBA.

That said, it is not like he has been a horrible bust in the NBA. He has been a starter a good bit over the course of his career and a valuable contributor throughout his now 9 year old career in The League. He hasn't been a legend, that is for sure, but everyone knew he would not be by this time during his senior season in high school.

Parker, both in attitude and in career arc, appears to be a very different story.

-Jason "all that said, Duke would eagerly welcome a kid with Bassie's talents (though not his head) to the team next year!" Evans

[Kedsy]

Bassie was better as a soph in high school than he was as a senior. His hype was rapidly fading throughout his career. Heck, few even had him as a top 5 recruit by the time he graduated and went to the NBA.

Well, as a senior he was #6 in the RSCI, so he was pretty close to a top 5 recruit. I'm not sure at the time it was as cut and dried as you've made it out to be.

[UrinalCake]

I would be remiss if I did not mention the gold standard of overhyped high schoolers.

2847

[superdave]

I would be remiss if I did not mention the gold standard of overhyped high schoolers.

2847

Dude, Harrison Barnes. Please.

[JNort]

Dude, Harrison Barnes. Please.

While Barnes was very over-hyped he still had an outstanding 2 year career.

[JNort]

Jabari narrowed his list to 5 five and we are still in!!! Uk, Unc, Uconn all dropped (as well as Gtown and Kansas)

[oldnavy]

While Barnes was very over-hyped he still had an outstanding 2 year career.

"Outstanding"? We must have different definitions of the word. His last year, I would say he might have been the third best player on his team behind Marshall, Zeller and may have been the fourth best depending on how you feel about Henson. He was a very solid and very good player. Outstanding?? Without Marshall he was barely all ACC material and I think I am being generous...

If you define outstanding by the awards he was "given" by an adoring press corps, then I would agree, he had an outstanding two years, but I think that a lot of people would say that he was given those awards more based on hype than actual performance.

Don't get me wrong, he was a solid player, but he was also a big disappointment to the UNC faithful, that is if you can find one that will give you an honest answer to that question...

[nickjyd]

Hi everyone,

I am not a gator fan at all and actually pull against them in all sports. My parents went to Duke, I've been going to Duke games since I was 6 or 7 years old and I went to Vandy and Northwestern for my degrees. I do want to say in regard to Jabari Parker's list that UF has the finest academic reputation of any school in Florida. They have the highest admission standards. I hope Jabari comes to Duke but I do think Florida being on his list is not the weirdest thing in the world. They have great history in their basketball program and a fine academic reputation in the region (although not nationally as high as Duke or Stanford's of course). Just my 2 cents.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Hi everyone,

I am not a gator fan at all and actually pull against them in all sports. My parents went to Duke, I've been going to Duke games since I was 6 or 7 years old and I went to Vandy and Northwestern for my degrees. I do want to say in regard to Jabari Parker's list that UF has the finest academic reputation of any school in Florida. They have the highest admission standards. I hope Jabari comes to Duke but I do think Florida being on his list is not the weirdest thing in the world. They have great history in their basketball program and a fine academic reputation in the region (although not nationally as high as Duke or Stanford's of course). Just my 2 cents.
Having grown up in FL, I would say at the absolute minimum, folks who attended UM would have something to say about that comment. It's a heck of a school and actually more highly regarded.

[JasonEvans]

Hi everyone,

I am not a gator fan at all and actually pull against them in all sports. My parents went to Duke, I've been going to Duke games since I was 6 or 7 years old and I went to Vandy and Northwestern for my degrees. I do want to say in regard to Jabari Parker's list that UF has the finest academic reputation of any school in Florida. They have the highest admission standards. I hope Jabari comes to Duke but I do think Florida being on his list is not the weirdest thing in the world. They have great history in their basketball program and a fine academic reputation in the region (although not nationally as high as Duke or Stanford's of course). Just my 2 cents.

Worth noting that DBR did not call out Florida for its academics. They merely said that the others on the list made more sense to them. But, seeing as you brought up academics, I figured I would further defend your point --

Florida - USN&WR ranking - #54, acceptance rate - 42%, student-faculty ratio 21:1
Stanford - USN&WR ranking - #6, acceptance rate - 7%, student-faculty ratio 5:1
Duke - USN&WR ranking - #8, acceptance rate - 14%, student-faculty ratio 7:1
BYU - USN&WR ranking - #68, acceptance rate - 63%, student-faculty ratio 21:1
Mich St. - USN&WR ranking - #72, acceptance rate - 73%, student-faculty ratio 16:1

I know the criteria can be debated, but a solid case can be made that Florida is the #3 academic school on Jabari's list and is in no way an academic outlier. I know that you can get a fine education at any of these schools but if academics are an important part of the equation, Duke and Stanford stick out in a very big way.

Just for the sake of comparison, the other truly competitive basketball programs* that excel at academics as well would be--

Notre Dame - USN&WR ranking - #17, acceptance rate - 24%, student-faculty ratio 11:1
Vanderbilt - USN&WR ranking - #17, acceptance rate - 16%, student-faculty ratio 8:1
Georgetown - USN&WR ranking - #21, acceptance rate - 18%, student-faculty ratio 12:1
California - USN&WR ranking - #21, acceptance rate - 21%, student-faculty ratio 17:1
UCLA - USN&WR ranking - #24, acceptance rate - 25%, student-faculty ratio 17:1
So. Cal. (USC) - USN&WR ranking - #24, acceptance rate - 23%, student-faculty ratio 9:1
Virginia - USN&WR ranking - #24, acceptance rate - 33%, student-faculty ratio 16:1

Wake (#27), Michigan (#29), UNC (#30), BC (#31), and Ga Tech (#36) are the only other major nation basketball programs in the top 40.

* - I am excluding Penn, Princeton, Cornell, and Harvard from the Ivy league, each of which has been good enough in basketball in the past decade or so to be legit NCAA tournament teams but, due to scholarship restrictions, none of which can assemble a roster that could make the Final Four.

-Jason "you can see why Notre Dame picked the ACC... our conference and the Pac 10/12/14/16?? are in a whole different area code from the rest of major sports when it comes to academics" Evans

[Cameron]

Bassie was better as a soph in high school than he was as a senior. His hype was rapidly fading throughout his career. Heck, few even had him as a top 5 recruit by the time he graduated and went to the NBA.

That said, it is not like he has been a horrible bust in the NBA. He has been a starter a good bit over the course of his career and a valuable contributor throughout his now 9 year old career in The League. He hasn't been a legend, that is for sure, but everyone knew he would not be by this time during his senior season in high school.

Parker, both in attitude and in career arc, appears to be a very different story.

-Jason "all that said, Duke would eagerly welcome a kid with Bassie's talents (though not his head) to the team next year!" Evans

Fair enough. I guess I just proceed with caution nowadays with regard to prep phenoms due to the massive influx of hyped high school stars over the last decade (beginning primarily with LeBron) and how many of them never seem to be as big as originally advertised. (LeBron, of course, being one of the major exceptions. That is an understatement, to be sure.)

Guys like Wagner, Telfair, Tamir Goodman (SI dubbed Goodman the "Jewish Jordan"; I still have that issue somewhere), OJ Mayo (while he's been a very productive scorer at certain points in his NBA career, I think it is apparent that he will never become the Hall-of-Famer that he was believed to be as an eighth-grader at Rose Hill Academy in Kentucky), Kwame Brown, and even Tyson Chandler (even though he's been a legitimate NBA role guy and superb rebounder at certain points of his career, he was featured in SI and SLAM magazine as the next "basketball god" at Dominguez High in Cali).

Color me cynical, but I just don't believe much of anything anymore. But I am rooting for Jabari, and really hope he chooses Duke, because with all of the hype surrounding him, the kid seems to have his priorities in perspective and would be the perfect kind of player to learn from and grow under Coach K.

[Indoor66]

Fair enough. I guess I just proceed with caution nowadays with regard to prep phenoms due to the massive influx of hyped high school stars over the last decade (beginning primarily with LeBron) and how many of them never seem to be as big as originally advertised. (LeBron, of course, being one of the major exceptions. That is an understatement, to be sure.)

Guys like Wagner, Telfair, Tamir Goodman (SI dubbed Goodman the "Jewish Jordan"; I still have that issue somewhere), OJ Mayo (while he's been a very productive scorer at certain points in his NBA career, I think it is apparent that he will never become the Hall-of-Famer that he was believed to be as an eighth-grader at Rose Hill Academy in Kentucky), Kwame Brown, and even Tyson Chandler (even though he's been a legitimate NBA role guy and superb rebounder at certain points of his career, he was featured in SI and SLAM magazine as the next "basketball god" at Dominguez High in Cali).

Color me cynical, but I just don't believe much of anything anymore. But I am rooting for Jabari, and really hope he chooses Duke, because with all of the hype surrounding him, the kid seems to have his priorities in perspective and would be the perfect kind of player to learn from and grow under Coach K.

I am with you Cameron. The Over Hype of the latest "phenom" has, seemingly, become a cottage industry. There are very few Chamberlains, Robertsons, Jabbars, Magics, Jordans or LaBrons in the history of the game. Many good players, few super stars. IMO, these kids are done an injustice when such lofty expectations are placed on them. The need to excell exceeds the need to succeed. It appears, in many instances, the burden cannot be carried and the expectations met. Maybe a little restraint by the writers and pundits is in order.

[jimsumner]

RE: Harrison Barnes as over-hyped.

I admit to having real mixed-feelings about Barnes. He certainly never lived up to expectations. Normally, this is where I side with the player, something along the lines of "Brian Zoubek never claimed to be the next Gminski, so it's not fair to compare him to Gminski because of something Vitale said."

But Barnes did bring a lot of this on himself, giving himself a nickname, the over-the-top-Skype announcement, talking like a CEO about his brand. Be careful what you wish for.

That said, he certainly shouldn't be on any short list of most disappointing players ever. He was good enough to be ACC Rookie of the Year, an All-ACC player, an NBA lottery pick. Compare that career with that of Jerod Ward, the consensus number one player in the class of 1994.

You're probably saying "Jerod who" about this time, which proves my point. But Ward went to Michigan before Twitter, Facebook, message boards and Skype, so his burden of expectations was lower.

It's the world we've created. We seem to have a once-in-a-generation talent every year or so and the hype machine just chews up everything in its path. Jabari Parker seems like a bright, grounded kid, so he's quite aware of this. If he were afraid of the hype machine, he wouldn't have Duke, Michigan State and Florida on his short list.