Polls 1/2/12

[Olympic Fan]

Both polls are out today (Jan. 2) and there's an interesting disagreement between the coaches and the writers.

Both polls agree: No. 1 Syracuse and No. 2 Kentucky.

After that, it gets funky.

The coaches poll has Duke No. 3, UNC No. 4, Baylor No. 5, Ohio State No. 6 and Missouri No. 7.

The writers poll has UNC No. 3, Baylor No. 4, Duke No. 5, Missouri No. 6 and Ohio State No. 7.

It's funny that both sets of voters would punish Ohio State for its two losses (one of which was without Sullinger) so much more than UNC is punished for its two losses. An I would suggest that OSU's victory over Duke is far more significant than anything UNC has achieved.

Although I do admit that it's strange to see Duke ranked ahead of the Ohiio State team that mauled it.

[MCFinARL]

Both polls are out today (Jan. 2) and there's an interesting disagreement between the coaches and the writers.

Both polls agree: No. 1 Syracuse and No. 2 Kentucky.

After that, it gets funky.

The coaches poll has Duke No. 3, UNC No. 4, Baylor No. 5, Ohio State No. 6 and Missouri No. 7.

The writers poll has UNC No. 3, Baylor No. 4, Duke No. 5, Missouri No. 6 and Ohio State No. 7.

It's funny that both sets of voters would punish Ohio State for its two losses (one of which was without Sullinger) so much more than UNC is punished for its two losses. An I would suggest that OSU's victory over Duke is far more significant than anything UNC has achieved.

Although I do admit that it's strange to see Duke ranked ahead of the Ohiio State team that mauled it.

It is funny--maybe what OSU is being punished for is that it is apparently so dependent on one player for success, whereas UNC is seen as a team with more options that just had a couple of off games in the early season? But I agree it's strange to see Duke ranked ahead of OSU--polls are bizarre.

[loran16]

Both polls are out today (Jan. 2) and there's an interesting disagreement between the coaches and the writers.

Both polls agree: No. 1 Syracuse and No. 2 Kentucky.

After that, it gets funky.

The coaches poll has Duke No. 3, UNC No. 4, Baylor No. 5, Ohio State No. 6 and Missouri No. 7.

The writers poll has UNC No. 3, Baylor No. 4, Duke No. 5, Missouri No. 6 and Ohio State No. 7.

It's funny that both sets of voters would punish Ohio State for its two losses (one of which was without Sullinger) so much more than UNC is punished for its two losses. An I would suggest that OSU's victory over Duke is far more significant than anything UNC has achieved.

Although I do admit that it's strange to see Duke ranked ahead of the Ohiio State team that mauled it.

I think the argument is that UNC's UNLV loss may be close to the Indiana loss, but that its loss to UK is far better than the OSU loss to KU. Of course KU was facing OSU w/out Sullinger.

It's also a matter of recency - the team that loses more recently is further back of the team that lost a while ago, even if it was to the same team.

[jv001]

I know very little when it comes to RPI. Just how are the rankings compiled? Syracuse is ranked #1 and deservedly so. Their Strength of Schedule is #3. Duke is #2 with SOS 6. Strangely Seton Hall is #4(SOS 13). I didn't know they were that good. I do have some head scratchers; Long Beach St. is #14 with a record of 5-6, Wisconsin which is #1 in Ken Poms ratings at #52, unc at #12. Good to see Tommy Amaker and Harvard at #20. Temple our next opponent is at #27. GoDuke!

[NSDukeFan]

I know very little when it comes to RPI. Just how are the rankings compiled? Syracuse is ranked #1 and deservedly so. Their Strength of Schedule is #3. Duke is #2 with SOS 6. Strangely Seton Hall is #4(SOS 13). I didn't know they were that good. I do have some head scratchers; Long Beach St. is #14 with a record of 5-6, Wisconsin which is #1 in Ken Poms ratings at #52, unc at #12. Good to see Tommy Amaker and Harvard at #20. Temple our next opponent is at #27. GoDuke!

I believe the names are thrown into a hat and pulled out at random, with NCAA bids in the balance. At least it's better than the BCS system. Or, something to do with win-loss records of the teams you have played and the teams they have played.

[jv001]

I believe the names are thrown into a hat and pulled out at random, with NCAA bids in the balance. At least it's better than the BCS system. Or, something to do with win-loss records of the teams you have played and the teams they have played.

OK now that explains it, lol. I agree with your opinion of the BCS system. I'm glad it's not that way in basketball. GoDuke!

[alteran]

It's funny that both sets of voters would punish Ohio State for its two losses (one of which was without Sullinger) so much more than UNC is punished for its two losses. .

I cannot overstate how unsurprised I am that UNC is getting a break in the polling. :cool:

I will also not be surprised when UNC gets a slap on the wrist from the NCAA for having an agent runner as their assistant head football coach.

I AM surprised to see Duke ranked next to Ohio State after they dropped the bomb on us, though. Wouldn't mind seeing them in the tournament, however. It's going to be awful hard for them to get their minds in the right place if they play us again after man-handling us so thoroughly.

[Surfsideron]

The reason UNC is ahead in the writers poll is because many of them are UNC grads. That's a fact, folks.

UNC has a very good journalism school and graduates many would-be sports writers. Unfortuantely they can't keep their loyalty to their alma mater n their back pocket when they are voting.

[uh_no]

well connecticut dropped another one....wouldn't want to be on that team when calhoun gets back tomorrow....they ought to drop to about 20th.....have yet to see a truly impressive game out of them....clueless tonight against the zone

kudos to SHU...they should be ranked next week

[jv001]

well connecticut dropped another one....wouldn't want to be on that team when calhoun gets back tomorrow....they ought to drop to about 20th.....have yet to see a truly impressive game out of them....clueless tonight against the zone

kudos to SHU...they should be ranked next week

SHU is ranked #4 in this weeks RPI. Maybe there is something to that poll. GoDuke!

[hurleyfor3]

Harvard lost too tonight, to Fordham. :(

[sagegrouse]

The reason UNC is ahead in the writers poll is because many of them are UNC grads. That's a fact, folks.

UNC has a very good journalism school and graduates many would-be sports writers. Unfortuantely they can't keep their loyalty to their alma mater n their back pocket when they are voting.

Do you have any data that suggest that UNC Journalism grads favor UNC? Grad students typically identify only with their school or department and not the larger university. In fact, a lot of grad students HATE the teams of their graduate university, esp. if they went to competitor schools. At best, it's a mixed bag.

sage
'Yes, I know that DBR has been well-served by grad students like Mullet Man, Viking Ed Vinit, Speedo Guy, and Throatybeard (although I have no idea where they were undergrads)'

[CDu]

Do you have any data that suggest that UNC Journalism grads favor UNC? Grad students typically identify only with their school or department and not the larger university. In fact, a lot of grad students HATE the teams of their graduate university, esp. if they went to competitor schools. At best, it's a mixed bag.

sage
'Yes, I know that DBR has been well-served by grad students like Mullet Man, Viking Ed Vinit, Speedo Guy, and Throatybeard (although I have no idea where they were undergrads)'

You're assuming that these sportswriting voters got graduate degrees rather than "simply" a bachelors. But is that an accurate assumption? I was sort of under the impression that this was not the case, but I'm definitely not certain about it.

Note: I also don't subscribe to the idea that UNC is ahead in the polls because of institutional affiliation of the voters, so it's sort of a moot point I guess. I would, however, believe that argument in a vote among ACC sports writers.

[hurleyfor3]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/files/specials/interactives/_sports/top25_basketball/voters/men.html?SITE=AP

Figure out who went where yourself. Two high-profile Duke alumni, though. How the hell someone at the Boulder Daily Camera got a vote is beyond me.

[moonpie23]

love it......first time since 01 for them


Seton Hall...

[UrinalCake]

Awesome! And let's give them the respect of spelling their name correctly 8-)

Kentucky was down at half to lowly Arkansas Little-Rock before putting them away. It appears that nobody is invincible this year.

[uh_no]

love it......first time since 01 for them


Seton Hall...

pretty sure the uconn players'll have wished they'd been declared academically ineligible after what happens at practice tomorrow....

[sagegrouse]

I think the argument is that UNC's UNLV loss may be close to the Indiana loss, but that its loss to UK is far better than the OSU loss to KU. Of course KU was facing OSU w/out Sullinger.

It's also a matter of recency - the team that loses more recently is further back of the team that lost a while ago, even if it was to the same team.

Your last comment is very perceptive. IMHO (where the H is always silent), most of the voters understand that, before mid-January, they have no real idea of the true strength of the teams being ranked. Accordingly, poll esults are fairly mechanical and may be explained by the following processes (algorithm?):

1. Teams are ranked at the beginning of the year primarily on last year's results with some adjustment due to departures. (Consider that when UNC lost the top 4 or 5 players off its championship team, it was still ranked in the top ten at the beginning of the 2010 season but ended up near the bottom of the ACC.)

2. When teams lose, they move down.

3. Teams move up for two reasons: primarily because teams ahead of them lose and secondarily when a loss is followed by a series of wins that suggests the loss was "a bad night." (E.g, Duke vs. Ohio State.) A rare occurrence is when an unranked team beats a ranked team and jumps into the rankings (like Harvard after beating FSU).

sagegrouse

[mkline09]

I for one think polls are only in existence to give fans and writers something to talk and debate about between the beginning of the season to the NCAA Tournament. You don't need a poll to see who the best teams are, you know by watching them. Polls help bridge the viewing/knowledge gap between East, West, North and South. It basically tells writers and fans who else to watch beside their favorite team, because the little number beside their name is associated with some value. We all agree, I think that preseason polls are a mute point. You don't know much until January and with injuries and other issues that pop up a team can change with the drop of a hat or the sprain/break/unidentified injury of a toe. If it were up to me I'd not have a poll until right before the NCAA tournament to give the selection committee and fans something to start off their assessment of who should get in and who shouldn't.

As far as the writer bias angle, there is some truth to it. I've witnessed it first hand. I've been in a number of newsrooms of different newspapers across this state and a good number of the reporters, both sports and otherwise are UNC-J-school grads. One editor sent me to a seminar at, you guessed it, UNC. Great J-school and it cranks out a lot of writers. Those that I worked with were usually die-hard UNC fans and those that were sports writiers clearly couldn't, at least in the newsroom, hold their opinions to themselves. But I also worked with some State grads and at least one Maryland grad. One thing they all had in common was a strong dislike of Duke. Whether or not that translated into their writing I cannot say with any accuracy and to my knowledge none of them had any votes in any significant polls.