The Bowl mania

[Olympic Fan]

I confess that I hate college football's lame postseason setup -- 6-8 UCLA was a bowl team?

But dropping in on a few games today, I realized we are on the verge of a major historical breakthrough.

South Carolina hit a Hail Mary at the end of the first half to take a 16-13 lead on Nebraska. If that holds up, there's a very good chance that South Carolina -- No. 9 in the last pre-bowl rankings -- will finish in the top 10.

At the moment, South Carolina is one of two historical BCS conference teams that has never finished in the top 10 or played in a major bowl (I say historical to eliminate johnny-come-latelies like South Florida or UConn, although UConn has played in a major bowl).

If the Gamecocks break the barrier this year, that will leave NC State as the most underachioeving major college football program in history.

PS Let me say I've always admired the passion of South Carolina's fans -- no where else is such money and energy expended on such an unproductive football program.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

PS Let me say I've always admired the passion of South Carolina's fans -- no where else is such money and energy expended on such an unproductive football program.
Hey! I resemble that remark! http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/24.gif:cool:

[Wander]

Penn State vs Houston was one of the very few games I was interested in seeing - the others are Arkansas/KSU and Stanford/OSU.

Instead, Penn State and UH were relegated to ESPNU, while two teams with 3-5 conference records played each other on ESPN. To hell with the bowls.

[JasonEvans]

Curious what folks will say about what UGA coach Mark Richt did in OT.

After an interception left Michigan St scoreless on the first OT possession, UGA merely needed a field goal to win. Richt called a simple run to the left for 2 yards on 1st down. On 2nd down, his QB took a keeper to the middle of the field and kneeled, giving up the 2 yards they had gained on 1st down. They elected to kick the 43 yard FG on 3rd down even though the UGA kicker is not very good (he hit less than 2/3rds of his FGs on the season). Predictably, he missed and GA went on to lose in 3 OT.

Why even bother with the 1st down run if you are going to give the yards back on 2nd down and kick on 3rd? Why not at least attempt to get closer and try a shorter FG? Was he afraid to pass because he might get sacked and suddenly be out of FG range?

I wish OT started on the 35 or 40 yard line, or maybe even the 50, so attempting a FG without doing anything offensively was a bigger challenge and less of an option. Regardless, Richt coached like he was scared of failure instead of trying to succeed. I have not read the papers and columns today, but I bet he is being scorched.

-Jason "college OT is soooo much better than pro OT, IMO" Evans

[Bluedog]

Curious what folks will say about what UGA coach Mark Richt did in OT.

After an interception left Michigan St scoreless on the first OT possession, UGA merely needed a field goal to win. Richt called a simple run to the left for 2 yards on 1st down. On 2nd down, his QB took a keeper to the middle of the field and kneeled, giving up the 2 yards they had gained on 1st down. They elected to kick the 43 yard FG on 3rd down even though the UGA kicker is not very good (he hit less than 2/3rds of his FGs on the season). Predictably, he missed and GA went on to lose in 3 OT.

Why even bother with the 1st down run if you are going to give the yards back on 2nd down and kick on 3rd? Why not at least attempt to get closer and try a shorter FG? Was he afraid to pass because he might get sacked and suddenly be out of FG range?

I wish OT started on the 35 or 40 yard line, or maybe even the 50, so attempting a FG without doing anything offensively was a bigger challenge and less of an option. Regardless, Richt coached like he was scared of failure instead of trying to succeed. I have not read the papers and columns today, but I bet he is being scorched.

-Jason "college OT is soooo much better than pro OT, IMO" Evans

I agree and do not understand the tentativeness of coaches when in non-gimme field goal range. The same thing happened in the Stanford vs. OSU game. Stanford marched down the field easily in like 50 seconds, stretching 60+ yards. Then once they got to the 20, they just wasted the last 50 seconds by running it towards the middle of the field. A 35-yarder is certainly not guaranteed, even with a good kicker like Stanford's. Why not continue to march down the field with a few more plays and make it easier on your kicker? I realize you don't want to turn the ball over, so obviously the play calling should be less risky. But you have Andrew Luck for a reason - he's a smart guy and knows if somethings not there, he won't force it. The Cardinal decided to be conservative and simply wait for the clock to dwindle down and then subsequently missed the FG by a ton. TRY TO MAKE IT EASIER ON YOUR KICKER.

Unless you have a FG within 25 yards or an NFL FG kicker and line it up directly in the middle of the field (the college hash marks make for some more difficult angles), then I don't understand the complete fear of trying to get more yards. Yes, obviously a turnover is the worst thing that can happen. But you should have trust in your team that ultimate ball security is the most important thing. They just gained 60+ yards in 50 seconds, and you think the best use of the last 50 seconds is simply to run backwards towards the middle of the field? Maddening to me, but it seems like this is common strategy among coaches.

Definitely some entertaining games yesterday.

Edit: Just looking back at the drive, Stanford didn't actually run the ball backwards. They did attempt to gain a few more yards by rushing it up the middle and gained about 8 yards. But still, obviously, they decided to not pass and weren't very concerned with getting another first down with their rushing either.

Edit 2: Another thing is the snap and hold for the Stanford kicker in OT was horrid. Not really the kicker's fault when the ball placement and laces are all in the wrong place. It hooked for that reason most likely. The hold at the end of regulation looked okay though.

[sagegrouse]

Curious what folks will say about what UGA coach Mark Richt did in OT.

After an interception left Michigan St scoreless on the first OT possession, UGA merely needed a field goal to win. Richt called a simple run to the left for 2 yards on 1st down. On 2nd down, his QB took a keeper to the middle of the field and kneeled, giving up the 2 yards they had gained on 1st down. They elected to kick the 43 yard FG on 3rd down even though the UGA kicker is not very good (he hit less than 2/3rds of his FGs on the season). Predictably, he missed and GA went on to lose in 3 OT.

Why even bother with the 1st down run if you are going to give the yards back on 2nd down and kick on 3rd? Why not at least attempt to get closer and try a shorter FG? Was he afraid to pass because he might get sacked and suddenly be out of FG range?

I wish OT started on the 35 or 40 yard line, or maybe even the 50, so attempting a FG without doing anything offensively was a bigger challenge and less of an option. Regardless, Richt coached like he was scared of failure instead of trying to succeed. I have not read the papers and columns today, but I bet he is being scorched.

-Jason "college OT is soooo much better than pro OT, IMO" Evans

Stanford's strategy was equally puzzling. Driving for the winning score with 52 seconds left in regulation and at least two timeouts, coach David Shaw called two consecutive runs to set up a 35-yard FG, which shaky freshman kicker Jordan Williamson promptly hooked. I mean, for heaven's sakes! Andrew Luck was 27 for 31! There was time for 4-5 more plays and a good bet for a TD.

Then, of course, Williamson missed a 40+ yarder in OT, and OSU won by three.

sage

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Stanford's strategy was equally puzzling. Driving for the winning score with 52 seconds left in regulation and at least two timeouts, coach David Shaw called two consecutive runs to set up a 35-yard FG, which shaky freshman kicker Jordan Williamson promptly hooked. I mean, for heaven's sakes! Andrew Luck was 27 for 31! There was time for 4-5 more plays and a good bet for a TD.

Then, of course, Williamson missed a 40+ yarder in OT, and OSU won by three.

sage
With each Williamson miss I thought about Will Snyderwine and his early and late season misses. Of course, Will was hurt early and we didn't know it. Just goes to show, once again, it's not as easy as it looks. Olindo Mare missed two game tying or winning FG's for the Panthers this year, and he's a former All Pro kicker.

[jimsumner]

Stanford's strategy was equally puzzling. Driving for the winning score with 52 seconds left in regulation and at least two timeouts, coach David Shaw called two consecutive runs to set up a 35-yard FG, which shaky freshman kicker Jordan Williamson promptly hooked. I mean, for heaven's sakes! Andrew Luck was 27 for 31! There was time for 4-5 more plays and a good bet for a TD.

Then, of course, Williamson missed a 40+ yarder in OT, and OSU won by three.

sage

And then in the OT, Stanford ran the ball twice, had a penalty and only had Luck pass on third-and-long. Talk about leaving bullets in your chamber.

Take the best pure passer of his generation and turn him into an afterthought. A real head-scratcher.

[johnb]

Curious what folks will say about what UGA coach Mark Richt did in OT.
-Jason "college OT is soooo much better than pro OT, IMO" Evans

This is one answer (and, yep, it's critical):

http://atlanta.sbnation.com/georgia-bulldogs/2012/1/3/2678758/mark-richt-georgia-football-2012-outback-bowl-michigan-state

[jimsumner]

Even though it worked, look at Oklahoma State's strategy in OT. They had first down from about a half-yard out, against a reeling Stanford D and they played for the field goal.

I don't have a data base on this but I suspect they had a greater chance of a missed or blocked field goal then losing a fumble from that distance.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

The current form of OT certainly produces some strange strategies and sometimes even stranger results.

[OldPhiKap]

Even though it worked, look at Oklahoma State's strategy in OT. They had first down from about a half-yard out, against a reeling Stanford D and they played for the field goal.

I don't have a data base on this but I suspect they had a greater chance of a missed or blocked field goal then losing a fumble from that distance.

They were pretty close though, IIRC. You could argue that there is a better chance of a turn-over if you run a play (especially when everyone on the defense is going for a strip) than of missing a chip shot.

Like with any sport, though, it depends on knowing your personnel.

[Matches]

The bowls have completely lost me, I'm afraid. Even on New Year's Day I forgot they were on.

Can you imagine if we decided who would be in the Super Bowl by having a poll at the end of the regular season?

[94duke]

The bowls have completely lost me, I'm afraid. Even on New Year's Day I forgot they were on.

Can you imagine if we decided who would be in the Super Bowl by having a poll at the end of the regular season?

Does anyone know if it is normal to not have ANY bowl games on Jan 1, when it falls on a Sunday?

[A-Tex Devil]

Does anyone know if it is normal to not have ANY bowl games on Jan 1, when it falls on a Sunday?

Yes. For 2 reasons.

Historically the tournament of Rises parade, and thus the game, wasn't on Sunday because it blocked people's ability to get in and out of church. Other bowls more or less followed suit. Don't know if it was over time or not though.

But the more relevant reason is that no one wants to compete with the NFL. It's been this way for as long as I can remember.

[sagegrouse]

Does anyone know if it is normal to not have ANY bowl games on Jan 1, when it falls on a Sunday?

I scanned the history of the Rose Bowl, and it appears that it was never played on Sunday, going back to 1922, when it was played on Monday, January 2.

The old reasons had to do, as mentioned on the Rose Parade telecasts, had to do with the noise and kerfuffle interrupting church services. Today, the NFL owns Sunday football. And since Monday, January 2, is always a holiday, it is just as easy to play then.

sagegrouse

[davekay1971]

Even though it worked, look at Oklahoma State's strategy in OT. They had first down from about a half-yard out, against a reeling Stanford D and they played for the field goal.

I don't have a data base on this but I suspect they had a greater chance of a missed or blocked field goal then losing a fumble from that distance.

As Tuesday Morning Quarterback frequently points out, coaches are very, very bad at statistics.

[CameronBornAndBred]

If the Gamecocks break the barrier this year, that will leave NC State as the most underachioeving major college football program in history.

Here's an interesting footnote to that statement.

NC State coach Tom O’Brien has had great success in bowl games, going 7-2. According to ESPN's Stats & Info department, O'Brien is one of 31 coaches in FBS history to win at least seven bowl games. Only John Robinson and Urban Meyer can claim a better winning percentage among that group.
http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/56402/obrien-among-nations-best-in-bowls

[Olympic Fan]

I scanned the history of the Rose Bowl, and it appears that it was never played on Sunday, going back to 1922, when it was played on Monday, January 2.

The old reasons had to do, as mentioned on the Rose Parade telecasts, had to do with the noise and kerfuffle interrupting church services. Today, the NFL owns Sunday football. And since Monday, January 2, is always a holiday, it is just as easy to play then.

sagegrouse

Duke's last bowl win was played on Monday, Jan. 2 -- back when the Cottom Bowl was one of the four major bowls.

In addition, Duke's first bowl trip -- the 1939 Rose Bowl (when the unbeaten, untied, unscored on Devils lost to Southern Cal 7-3 on a touchdown in the final seconds), was played on Monday, Jan. 2.

The major bowls have never played on Sunday. That predates the NFL.

[jimsumner]

Duke's last bowl win was played on Monday, Jan. 2 -- back when the Cottom Bowl was one of the four major bowls.

In addition, Duke's first bowl trip -- the 1939 Rose Bowl (when the unbeaten, untied, unscored on Devils lost to Southern Cal 7-3 on a touchdown in the final seconds), was played on Monday, Jan. 2.

The major bowls have never played on Sunday. That predates the NFL.

There was a time when colleges would have blanched at the idea of having any athletic competition on a Sunday. The ACC Tournament always ended on Saturday night. Until the nice TV folks, with their checkbooks, suggested an alternative.

[jv001]

There was a time when colleges would have blanched at the idea of having any athletic competition on a Sunday. The ACC Tournament always ended on Saturday night. Until the nice TV folks, with their checkbooks, suggested an alternative.

Now what does God's word(Bible) say about the love of money? Something about the root of evil? GoDuke!

[-bdbd]

'am pretty disappointed in the ACC this year. Though we finally achieved two BCS berths (I say achieved as opposes to earned...) Clemson was favored over WVU in the Orange, and VT had a great opportunity in a close one in the Sugar. The rest of the ACC had acquitted itself relatively well to this point. Then VT just GIVES the game to M ichigan - a game where they generally outplayed the Wolverines - with some terrible coaching decisions, and a marginal ref call (overthrowing a TD reception in OT), and Clemson sets records for the size of the egg they lay in the Orange Bowl. Ouch!

Same 'ole ACC.... :mad:

[A-Tex Devil]

Big XII, Past, Present and Future has gone 8-1, with a chance at 9-1 if KSU can upset Arkansas. Only loss was Iowa St. at New Yankee Stadium to Rutgers.

One other thing I'd point out -- I wish we could get more Big XII-SEC matchups. There is only 1 (the Cotton Bowl). The Independence Bowl used to be, but that changed. There's nothing more boring and generally preordained then the early afternoon butt-whooping the SEC puts on the Big Ten every year on January 1 (or, this year, on January 2) in the Outback, Gator and Capital One bowls.

Would love to see the fighting Bill Snyders win the Cotton Bowl. That is the best job of coaching in America this year by far (imho) and Colin Klein is the most underrated player.

[Reilly]

Liberty, transitioning to FBS, signs bowl tie-in:

https://www.liberty.edu/flames/index.cfm?PID=36963&newsID=20457&teamID=9

[budwom]

Liberty, transitioning to FBS, signs bowl tie-in:

https://www.liberty.edu/flames/index.cfm?PID=36963&newsID=20457&teamID=9

Archaeology award to Reilly for digging up a thread buried for six and a half years!

[Indoor66]

Archaeology award to Reilly for digging up a thread buried for six and a half years!

Break out the Gold Shovel.

[OldPhiKap]

Archaeology award to Reilly for digging up a thread buried for six and a half years!


Break out the Gold Shovel.

“Indiana Reilly and the Bowl Thread of Doom.”

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Liberty, transitioning to FBS, signs bowl tie-in:

https://www.liberty.edu/flames/index.cfm?PID=36963&newsID=20457&teamID=9

Shouldn't they go to the Liberty Bowl?

[Reilly]

Archaeology award to Reilly for digging up a thread buried for six and a half years!

I recalled a thread about the expansion of the number of bowls in the past two months or so. I believe BigWayne started it or posted in it. After looking five pages back and not finding it, I searched "bowl" and got twenty pages of hits (which is twenty pages more of hits than I usually get with the search function). I paged through them front and back and stumbled on this thread. So, I used it. During this archaeological dig, I almost gave up and I was *this* close to starting a whole, brand new thread ... but decided I didn't want to die today. I know I shouldn't think of starting a new thread much less type out loud about it, but sometimes I get these urges, and, I don't know, it seems sort of natural to me to want to do, even though I know it's wrong.

[budwom]

"My name's Reilly, and I almost started a thread today."

[rsvman]

"My name's Reilly, and I almost started a thread today."

"Hi, Reilly!"


;)

[devildeac]

"My name's Reilly, and I almost started a thread today."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkG4oIPT7tU

Well, close. Maybe? :o

[chrishoke]

I miss Olympic Fan.

[OldPhiKap]

I miss Olympic Fan.

Me too, even though we once got a thread locked for PPB reasons for arguing over the relative merits, or lack of merits, of the Woodrow Wilson presidency.

Fun times.

Agree or disagree with Oly -- he always had an opinion and was always more than happy to defend it.

[BigWayne]

I recalled a thread about the expansion of the number of bowls in the past two months or so. I believe BigWayne started it or posted in it. After looking five pages back and not finding it, I searched "bowl" and got twenty pages of hits (which is twenty pages more of hits than I usually get with the search function). I paged through them front and back and stumbled on this thread. So, I used it. During this archaeological dig, I almost gave up and I was *this* close to starting a whole, brand new thread ... but decided I didn't want to die today. I know I shouldn't think of starting a new thread much less type out loud about it, but sometimes I get these urges, and, I don't know, it seems sort of natural to me to want to do, even though I know it's wrong.

You recall correctly. It was this one (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?38977-The-ACC-and-The-Bowl-Games), which was about ACC teams and bowl games and was only partly related to what I posted, but was as close as I could find. It was only two years old, so no archeology award for me.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Now what does God's word(Bible) say about the love of money? Something about the root of evil? GoDuke!

Well it's often slightly misquoted, but in a standard translation it is "the love of money is A root of all kinds of evil..."
Not THE root of ALL evil.

[Indoor66]

Well it's often slightly misquoted, but in a standard translation it is "the love of money is A root of all kinds of evil..."
Not THE root of ALL evil.

If you check the Book of Timothy in the Bible you will find that the LOVE of money is the root.

[OldPhiKap]

If you check the Book of Timothy in the Bible you will find that the LOVE of money is the root.

If you check Dark Side of the Moon you will find that money, so they say, is the root of all evil today.

And, you’ll find it in 7:4 time which is rare.

[jimsumner]

If you'll check the Book of Barret Strong, you'll find that you can keep all that free stuff for the birds and bees. He wants money. That's what he wants.

And the Beatles agreed.

Then again, the Fab Four also argued that they didn't care too much for money, it not being able to buy them love and all.

Then again, redux, Randy Newman maintained that money can't buy love but it will get you drugs, young women and a long limousine on a Saturday night.

So, I'm just all confused.

[OldPhiKap]

While Kanye wouldn’t call her a gold digger per se, he recognized that she wasn’t messing with no brokey broke.

Warren Zevon, of course, knew the three things you need in any jam — lawyers, guns and money.

As far as I’m concerned — more money, more problems.