Hoosiers (Indiana 74, tOSU 70)

[Gthoma2a]

For the first time in years, I am starting to think Indiana is a pretty scary team. They are looking like they are up to beating Ohio State here. Cody Zellar is better than his brother IMO. Plus, Jordan Hull plays out of his head in big games. Their record and their performance against Kentucky don't look to be anomalies.

On a side note from this thread, why couldn't we have played Ohio State like this? I know we have the personnel.

[Bob Green]

On a side note from this thread, why couldn't we have played Ohio State like this?

I'll reverse the question. Why couldn't Ohio State have played like this against us? The Buckeyes were 3-11 on 3-pointers against Indiana. Against us, they were 8-14. Perhaps Indiana's defense deserves the credit, but I watched big chunks of this game and saw Ohio State miss on wide open looks.

[Newton_14]

I'll reverse the question. Why couldn't Ohio State have played like this against us? The Buckeyes were 3-11 on 3-pointers against Indiana. Against us, they were 8-14. Perhaps Indiana's defense deserves the credit, but I watched big chunks of this game and saw Ohio State miss on wide open looks.

I watched most of the game. Great ball game. March worthy in fact. Two really good teams, with size, quickness, leapers (That Thompson kid on OSU must be related to David Thompson. That one handed slam off the inbounds alleyoop pass was incredible.

I thought homecourt is what swung it Indiana's way and allowed them to pull the upset. I still believe OSU is the clear cut best team in the country. They can be beat of course, as tonight showed, but they are really good. UNC, Kentucky, and Syracuse would all have a tough time beating OSU on a neutral court.

Glad to see Indiana back among the best of college hoops. They had hit rock bottom with "text-gate". It took a year or two longer than people thought it would, but congrats to Crean for building the program back to where they can once again compete with anyone. They have a lot of talent themselves. Zeller is the real deal (thank God he did not go to UNC), and they have several other good players. The Hull kid was impressive today.

Very enjoyable game to watch.

[Gthoma2a]

I'll reverse the question. Why couldn't Ohio State have played like this against us? The Buckeyes were 3-11 on 3-pointers against Indiana. Against us, they were 8-14. Perhaps Indiana's defense deserves the credit, but I watched big chunks of this game and saw Ohio State miss on wide open looks.

That's a good point. I just hate the bad taste that game left. I know we are better than that. We will just have to wait to show it. Seeing them beaten by Kansas didn't mean so much without Jared, but this gave me a little more hope for us getting revenge come March.

[Class of '94]

I watched most of the game. Great ball game. March worthy in fact. Two really good teams, with size, quickness, leapers (That Thompson kid on OSU must be related to David Thompson. That one handed slam off the inbounds alleyoop pass was incredible.

I thought homecourt is what swung it Indiana's way and allowed them to pull the upset. I still believe OSU is the clear cut best team in the country. They can be beat of course, as tonight showed, but they are really good. UNC, Kentucky, and Syracuse would all have a tough time beating OSU on a neutral court.

Glad to see Indiana back among the best of college hoops. They had hit rock bottom with "text-gate". It took a year or two longer than people thought it would, but congrats to Crean for building the program back to where they can once again compete with anyone. They have a lot of talent themselves. Zeller is the real deal (thank God he did not go to UNC), and they have several other good players. The Hull kid was impressive today.

Very enjoyable game to watch.

How can you think OSU is the clear cut best team in the country and that teams like UNC, Kentucky and Syracuse would have a tough time beating OSU when OSU is 1-2 outside of Columbus, OH (and easily could be 0-3 if not for pulling out the victory against South Carolina late in the game)? I never thought OSU was the most talented team but I thought up until the injury to Sullinhger that OSU was playing the best basketball of any team in the country. Lately, though, I don't think they've been playing the best basketball. Maybe most or all of it is due to Sullinger being hurt; and if that is the case, I question how far OSU can go being so dependent on one player to make their team go. And if they don't improve their play on the road, I also wonder if they can make it to the final 4.

As far as the Hoosiers, I think they are a dangerous but still young team that plays better at home than on the road against good competition (they lost earlier this week against Mich State on the road); and if they are going to do any damage in the tournament, they too will have to learn how to bring to road games the intensity they play with at home.

[Newton_14]

How can you think OSU is the clear cut best team in the country and that teams like UNC, Kentucky and Syracuse would have a tough time beating OSU when OSU is 1-2 outside of Columbus, OH (and easily could be 0-3 if not for pulling out the victory against South Carolina late in the game)? I never thought OSU was the most talented team but I thought up until the injury to Sullinhger that OSU was playing the best basketball of any team in the country. Lately, though, I don't think they've been playing the best basketball. Maybe most or all of it is due to Sullinger being hurt; and if that is the case, I question how far OSU can go being so dependent on one player to make their team go. And if they don't improve their play on the road, I also wonder if they can make it to the final 4.

As far as the Hoosiers, I think they are a dangerous but still young team that still plays better at home than on the road; and if they are going to do any damage in the tournament, they too will have to learn how to bring to road games the intensity they play with at home.

I have seen them play 4 times now. They are anything but a one man team. They lost a tough conference road game today against a Top 15 team, and still had a great chance with the lead and the ball with less than a minute to go. There is no shame at all in that loss today, and I see no shame in losing at Kansas without Sullinger.

They are a darn good basketball team with lots of weapons, and balance. Great PG, great center, with really good wings that are tall, have great length, and can defend. I just like all of their pieces more than the other top teams. Kentucky is really good, but depend on freshman and sophomores. UNC is really good, but have question marks with perimeter defense, and toughness.

All can be beat of course, but based on what I have seen so far, I would pick OSU to beat any of those top teams right now on a neutral court. That could change moving forward of course, but just how I see it right now.

Indiana is no slouch themselves. It's going to be a fun year of hoops.

[OldPhiKap]

How can you think OSU is the clear cut best team in the country and that teams like UNC, Kentucky and Syracuse would have a tough time beating OSU when OSU is 1-2 outside of Columbus, OH (and easily could be 0-3 if not for pulling out the victory against South Carolina late in the game)? I never thought OSU was the most talented team but I thought up until the injury to Sullinhger that OSU was playing the best basketball of any team in the country. Lately, though, I don't think they've been playing the best basketball. Maybe most or all of it is due to Sullinger being hurt; and if that is the case, I question how far OSU can go being so dependent on one player to make their team go. And if they don't improve their play on the road, I also wonder if they can make it to the final 4.

As far as the Hoosiers, I think they are a dangerous but still young team that plays better at home than on the road against good competition (they lost earlier this week against Mich State on the road); and if they are going to do any damage in the tournament, they too will have to learn how to bring to road games the intensity they play with at home.

I am not smart enough to separate one from five, but the game we played against tOSU convinced me that they're pretty damn good.

As far as being less than stellar on the road, I seem to remember that our 2010 team couldn't win it all because we struggled on the road.

I would love another shot at them, but they can certainly win it all. (as can a dozen other teams, Duke certainly included)

[mgtr]

How can you think OSU is the clear cut best team in the country and that teams like UNC, Kentucky and Syracuse would have a tough time beating OSU when OSU is 1-2 outside of Columbus, OH (and easily could be 0-3 if not for pulling out the victory against South Carolina late in the game)?

This is the killer point - Kentucky, OSU, and Indiana are great at home, but not so great in true road games. Then again, we have played only one true road game, and got killed. This may become a strange season.

[uh_no]

I'll reverse the question. Why couldn't Ohio State have played like this against us? The Buckeyes were 3-11 on 3-pointers against Indiana. Against us, they were 8-14. Perhaps Indiana's defense deserves the credit, but I watched big chunks of this game and saw Ohio State miss on wide open looks.

In all fairness, OSU could have shot 1-14 against us and still won the game (obviously we could have not guarded the line as tightly.....and perhaps defended better inside....but it wasn't JUST good shooting)

[Newton_14]

How can you think OSU is the clear cut best team in the country and that teams like UNC, Kentucky and Syracuse would have a tough time beating OSU when OSU is 1-2 outside of Columbus, OH (and easily could be 0-3 if not for pulling out the victory against South Carolina late in the game)?


This is the killer point - Kentucky, OSU, and Indiana are great at home, but not so great in true road games. Then again, we have played only one true road game, and got killed. This may become a strange season.

But how many tournament games are true road games?:) In my original post, I specifically stated "on a neutral court". You certainly need to be able to win true road games in conference play to achieve the goal of finishing first in the Regular Season, but given that both conference and NCAA tournaments are exclusively on neutral courts, it is much more important to be able to win on neutral courts than it is to be able to win true road games. That's my humble opinion anyway..

[Gthoma2a]

But how many tournament games are true road games?:) In my original post, I specifically stated "on a neutral court". You certainly need to be able to win true road games in conference play to achieve the goal of finishing first in the Regular Season, but given that both conference and NCAA tournaments are exclusively on neutral courts, it is much more important to be able to win on neutral courts than it is to be able to win true road games. That's my humble opinion anyway..

I could be mistaken, but didn't we win a national championship without winning a single true road game in 2010?

[Bigdukeboi22]

Ohio State is a great team with experience. They have struggled on the road and are very vulnerable to an early exit in the NCAA Tournament just like last season. When they are on their game(like when they played Duke) , they look like the best team in the country, but other times they seem to amaze me how Duke lost so humiliatingly to them. Of course, playing in Assembly Hall is never easy for any team. But the student section was not there and if there ever was an easier game against Indiana in Assembly Hall, this was it. Yes, a lot of calls did not go Ohio States way, and losing by a small margin while stuck in foul trouble isn't the worst, but I still think a loss to Indiana still a year away from absolute greatness is poor. I expect a couple more losses for Ohio State down the road and end the season 26-5. I expect them to possibly win the Big Ten Tournament and then I see another Sweet 16 or Elite 8 early exit(by their expectations for the season). This could change, but as of right now I think they are too vulnerable for an upset.

[Bigdukeboi22]

I might add though, that the Duke team in 2010 started ugly on the road and came back to win the National Championship, so things could get fixed for Ohio State. But Coach K is also Coach K and Thad Matta is no where close to Coach K's coaching abilities.

[Bob Green]

I could be mistaken, but didn't we win a national championship without winning a single true road game in 2010?

You're mistaken. We won five true road games in 2010 including a 64-54 win over Carolina in Chapel Hill.

[OldPhiKap]

But how many tournament games are true road games?:) In my original post, I specifically stated "on a neutral court". You certainly need to be able to win true road games in conference play to achieve the goal of finishing first in the Regular Season, but given that both conference and NCAA tournaments are exclusively on neutral courts, it is much more important to be able to win on neutral courts than it is to be able to win true road games. That's my humble opinion anyway..

True, but some sure come close:


Baylor, 2010.

Butler, 2010.

Whatever year we had to play at Rupp.

Any pod that we share with the Heels.

[Gthoma2a]

You're mistaken. We won five true road games in 2010 including a 64-54 win over Carolina in Chapel Hill.

That's right. I don't know how I could have forgotten that. I just remembered Wisconsin, and then State, thinking "maybe we just aren't capable of winning on the road with this team."

[Class of '94]

But how many tournament games are true road games?:) In my original post, I specifically stated "on a neutral court". You certainly need to be able to win true road games in conference play to achieve the goal of finishing first in the Regular Season, but given that both conference and NCAA tournaments are exclusively on neutral courts, it is much more important to be able to win on neutral courts than it is to be able to win true road games. That's my humble opinion anyway..

You've made good points in regards to OSU; but I still think OSU is vulnerable right now away from Columbus, whether they play on a neutral site or a true road game. Again, there are no bad losses when you lose close games to Kansas and Indiana on the road (although the close win at South Carolina on the road could be a little alarming for OSU fans). OSU's performances away from Columbus compared to at home are significantly different imo. OSU has experience and they are really good; but they have a worse record away from Columbus compared to UNC, Kentucky (although KY hasn't played that many games away from Lexington either) and Syracuse (as well as Duke for that matter). I think OSU could've benefitted more from playing additional games away from home at this point as opposed to playing mostly home games up to this point. That said, with conference play beginning for both OSU and Indiane, they will have the opportunities to improve their road performances in preparation of NCAA tournament time.

[Wander]

This is the killer point - Kentucky, OSU, and Indiana are great at home, but not so great in true road games. Then again, we have played only one true road game, and got killed. This may become a strange season.

This is the rule, not the exception. Kentucky, Florida and Duke are undefeated at home/neutral and winless on the road. Ohio State and UNC are undefeated at home/neutral and winless on the road against half-decent teams. Syracuse and Missouri are undefeated but have only played one road game. Basically all the ranked teams are great at home, not so great in true road games (is Georgetown the only ranked team with a true road win over a really good team?).

[uh_no]

True, but some sure come close:


Baylor, 2010.

Butler, 2010.

Whatever year we had to play at Rupp.

Any pod that we share with the Heels.

add our game against arizona last year, and uconn's games against both san diego st, and arizona

[sagegrouse]

You're mistaken. We won five true road games in 2010 including a 64-54 win over Carolina in Chapel Hill.

Duke was 5-3 in the ACC; lost at Wisconsin and at Georgetown. I like being undefeated at home (17-0), but I really love being 13-0 at neutral sites!

sage

[miramar]

Duke was 5-3 in the ACC; lost at Wisconsin and at Georgetown. I like being undefeated at home (17-0), but I really love being 13-0 at neutral sites!

sage

It's hard to forget the 14 point loss at State on January 20 followed by the 22 point blowout at Georgetown 10 days later. Even when Zoubs stepped up and Duke started winning on the road, there were some relatively close games against less than stellar opponents (BC +3, Miami +7, UNC +10).

But that 13-0 record more than made up for it. What a team!

[NSDukeFan]

I have seen them play 4 times now. They are anything but a one man team. They lost a tough conference road game today against a Top 15 team, and still had a great chance with the lead and the ball with less than a minute to go. There is no shame at all in that loss today, and I see no shame in losing at Kansas without Sullinger.

They are a darn good basketball team with lots of weapons, and balance. Great PG, great center, with really good wings that are tall, have great length, and can defend. I just like all of their pieces more than the other top teams. Kentucky is really good, but depend on freshman and sophomores. UNC is really good, but have question marks with perimeter defense, and toughness.

All can be beat of course, but based on what I have seen so far, I would pick OSU to beat any of those top teams right now on a neutral court. That could change moving forward of course, but just how I see it right now.

Indiana is no slouch themselves. It's going to be a fun year of hoops.

I agree with a lot of your post, but don't see much reason to be high on OSU, if you are less high on UK because they depend on freshmen and sophomores. If you think OSU may be better because they depend on one very good senior and mostly sophomores vs. UK depending mostly on two very good sophs and mostly freshmen then that would make more sense. I agree with the DBR front page that Kidd-Gilchrist is fun to watch, especially when he is outplaying the small forward at UNC.

[Newton_14]

I agree with a lot of your post, but don't see much reason to be high on OSU, if you are less high on UK because they depend on freshmen and sophomores. If you think OSU may be better because they depend on one very good senior and mostly sophomores vs. UK depending mostly on two very good sophs and mostly freshmen then that would make more sense. I agree with the DBR front page that Kidd-Gilchrist is fun to watch, especially when he is outplaying the small forward at UNC.

Fair counterpoint, and FWIW, I don't feel there is a large gap between any of these teams. I just feel OSU is better as of right now. Kentucky has a freshman PG and center, where OSU has soph at those two slots. I do feel the experience from last year helps Craft and Sully, whereas Teague and Davis are experiencing all this for the first time.
I do love Gilchrists game and he does not play like a freshman. Really good player. Offensively though, OSU seems to have better balance and a little bit more firepower than UK. If they played today on a neutral court, I would pick OSU to win.

That's today. A month or two from now, things could change.

[CoachJ10]

OSU led the NCAA with the fewest fouls per game last season...and have been getting similar treatment this season. Sullinger is the main beneficiary of this Hansborough-esque reffing. I've seen plenty of Big 10+2 games to cement this observation He consistently gets favorable calls on the bigs of his opponents (see Mason in our game vs OSU - how different is that first half if Mase doesn't pick up 2 early ones...or if Sullinger had been called for 2 early ones like he should have).

Hearing Gottlieb complain at halftime against IU about the officiating going against OSU was one of the sillier things he has said (and we all know how long that list is).

OSU has some talented players...but they have had some very favorable treatment lately. And the facts (unlike the myths perpetuated about Duke and reffing) bears that out...