MBB: Duke 110, Western Michigan 70 Post-Game Thread

[Bob Green]

Discuss the game here.

[UrinalCake]

Was I hallucinating or did Len Elmore really say that Cameron has only been a tough place to play for the past 10 or 11 years?

Nice tuneup game, nice to see us jump in and play hard after the layoff.

[DukeBlueHeart4]

Every time I see Cook play I become more convinced that this kid is going to be special. K has a knack for developing talent and if Cook develops in typical Duke fashion then we may have solved our point guard conundrum. It was nice to see all of the guys we don't normally get to see. I know this competition is a little less daunting than the competition we're going to face in the future but it's nice to know that if something happens to our starters we have guys who are willing to get in there, fight, and play their hearts out. Not that I'd expect anything else from Duke players. :D

Other than Elmore's negative droning, this was a rather enjoyable way to bring in the New Year (...in 27 hours).

[sagegrouse]

Was I hallucinating or did Len Elmore really say that Cameron has only been a tough place to play for the past 10 or 11 years?

Nice tuneup game, nice to see us jump in and play hard after the layoff.

Well, Duke lost only one home game from 1960-1964. But, of course, it wasn't Cameron then -- he was still the AD.

sage

[SMO]

Was I hallucinating or did Len Elmore really say that Cameron has only been a tough place to play for the past 10 or 11 years?

Nice tuneup game, nice to see us jump in and play hard after the layoff.

Len sure was doing Harvard proud tonight. Anyway, really enjoyed the PG audition I think I saw tonight. Both Cook & Thornton looked strong. Let's see how this plays out against better competition.

[lotusland]

Well, Duke lost only one home game from 1960-1964. But, of course, it wasn't Cameron then -- he was still the AD.

sage

What was it called before CIS?

[loldevilz]

I am definitely on the Cook bandwagon after that performance. The back to back dish to the slashing Hairston and then alley-oop to Miles were ridiculous. The kid has vision, let him play!

[Duvall]

What was it called before CIS?

Duke Indoor Stadium.

[Bob Green]

What was it called before CIS?

Duke Indoor Stadium was renamed on January 22, 1972 to honor Eddie Cameron.

[mgtr]

We had five players in double figures, and four of them are guards. Well, points is points, but I would like to see more scoring from the bigs.

[OldPhiKap]

We had five players in double figures, and four of them are guards. Well, points is points, but I would like to see more scoring from the bigs.

Miles, Mason, Ryan and Josh all played well.

[MChambers]

Did anyone else hear Mike Patrick say that Quinn is from Chicago? (Maybe that's why his last name is Cook.)

I was impressed with Seth, Austin, Silent G, and Quinn tonight. Oh, and Miles. He's really playing strong D. Maybe the Zoubek analogy isn't so flawed.

[SupaDave]

When was the last time we scored that much?

[Saratoga2]

Miles, Mason, Ryan and Josh all played well.

There was bound to be some communication issues and lapses on defense with so many combinations on the floor tonight. I thought we did fairly well defensively under the circumstances, with Miles really doing the best of the bigs. He is stronger out there and could resist the 290 pounder. I thought Mason and Ryan played okay but not outstanding defense while Hairston matched up better with this team than he would with the more athletic and big teams.

The good things tonight:
1. Seth had his shooting touch back
2. Austin continues to impress
3. Cook showed outstanding point guard skills with good floor vision, outstanding ball control and passing as well. He also is quite capable of scoring.
4. Tyler can hit the open 3's
5. A lot of people played and Michael and Hairston in particular gained experience in competition

The questionable things tonight:
1. Andre was missing in action with one or two shots
2. Mason was also not in the action offensively and only got a basket from a Cook feed
3. We gave up 70 points to this team

[Duke71]

I couldn't be happier about Miles Plumlee's rebounding performance tonight (long overdue....I hope he does a Zoobs number for us and shows up bigtime for conference play during our next championship run), but why did brother Mason essentially disappear at the same time?

Was he ailing with a flu bug or something?

[roywhite]

Duke Indoor Stadium.

Which differentiated it from Duke Outdoor Stadium, the name of our football stadium prior to being named after Wallace Wade.

[moonpie23]

maybe it's just such a different perspective being AT the game, but i felt that the team's defense was really lacking...i know that we won by a large margin, but there were shots being taken that our guys didn't even TRY to block.....WM got a lot of shots that they shouldn't have...

[1 24 90]

How many guys had career highs tonight?

Curry tied his Duke high with 22, Thornton had 12, Hairston had 13 and Cook had 16.

Good job guys, keep it up!

[stillcrazie]

There was bound to be some communication issues and lapses on defense with so many combinations on the floor tonight. I thought we did fairly well defensively under the circumstances, with Miles really doing the best of the bigs. He is stronger out there and could resist the 290 pounder. I thought Mason and Ryan played okay but not outstanding defense while Hairston matched up better with this team than he would with the more athletic and big teams.

The good things tonight:
1. Seth had his shooting touch back
2. Austin continues to impress
3. Cook showed outstanding point guard skills with good floor vision, outstanding ball control and passing as well. He also is quite capable of scoring.
4. Tyler can hit the open 3's
5. A lot of people played and Michael and Hairston in particular gained experience in competition

The questionable things tonight:
1. Andre was missing in action with one or two shots
2. Mason was also not in the action offensively and only got a basket from a Cook feed
3. We gave up 70 points to this team

Excellent post. Another good thing, I thought, was the crowd did a decent job filling in for the crazies. As far as Mason goes, a friend of mine thinks that when Mason gets yelled at, he shuts down. I did notice Coach K admonish Mason early in the game (I was standing in a spot with a good view of the bench) but am not sure if this guy is right or not. I trust K to know how to talk to his players, but it would not surprise me if Mason was a bit overly sensitive.

[Newton_14]

I thought the guys looked good tonight considering it was the first game after the long break. Thankfully I got to see it in person and did not have to listen to Elmore and Patrick, as it sounds like they were lost at sea with their comments.

The offensive outburst was fun to watch. We shot the ball incredibly well obviously but it wasn't just that. The flow was good and we had our best night fast breaking in a long time. Nice. From the "Great Teammate Department": Shout out to Alex Murphy. After both of Gbinije's 3's, Murph jumped up off the bench cheering loudly. Nice to see as they likely kill each other in practices.

I actually thought the defense was good for large stretches of the first half. The perimeter guys were applying good pressure and taking away the 3 Ball weapon from WMU. That was one of the focal points of the game plan and it worked well. The interior defense was good when Miles and Josh were in. I thought Mason and Ryan both had off nights on both ends. Ryan hit the two open three's but seemed off with other parts of his game. Those two guys were the only players that I thought showed rust from the layoff. Hopefully both can bounce back on Sunday.

Quinn was extremely good on both ends. He is really improving quickly which is awesome, and helps the team play faster. Tyler also played well. 28 points 11 assists and I believe 1 turnover from the 2 PG's. I will take that all day long.

Austin is also improving game over game. Saw a first from him tonight, as he brought it up with the defense back and waiting in a semi-break situation, and in a situation where he has been determined to drive it, he faked the drive and hit Seth with a cross court pass to the corner for the open 3 which Seth nailed. It may seem insignificant, but 3 weeks ago, he does not even realize Seth is in the corner.

Seth was actually my man of the match tonight. I thought he set the tone early, hunting his shot much better than recent games, and once the first 2 or 3 dropped for him, he started seeing a big basket and took off. He is a lethal shooter, and when his shots are coming in rhythm vs forced, he is just deadly. Fun to watch.

Once the lead got into the 40-50ish range the defense laxed and got ragged as Saratoga noted. Hard to stay intense on defense when the lead is that big, but it just gives K a teaching point to keep them grounded.

Can't wait to see them again on Sunday and at the rate the Ivy League is kicking the ACC's collective butts, I take nothing for granted. The guys need to come out focused and ready to play.

[Bigdukeboi22]

From My experience at the Duke game, It is clear that Quinn Cook should start at Point Guard. I mean everybody saw how much better UNC got when they made Kendall Marshall their point guard. It's the same way here. Duke is so much more explosive and a way better offensive threat with Quinn Cook at PG. Tyler Thorton would be an excellent back up and I hope Coach K makes the switch.

[PallasAthena]

Very, very good crowd tonight. The placed was packed upstairs and down. Even though it seemed like there were a lot of visitors, folks seemed to know what to do -- even without cheerleaders. The Blue Devil was present. And the alumni band also. And almost no one left until the very end of the game, despite the lopsided score. Thanks!!

Our "new" announcer attempted a kind of weak "Here Comes Duke!" followed by a nice tribute to Dr. Art Chandler, followed by a moment of silence.

Does anyone know why the PA volume in Cameron is about three times too loud? It is almost unbearable in our seats (section 3). This is a fairly recent (last 2-3 years) development. And why does the "new" PA announcer say "The foul has been charged to Duke and to Joe Basketball," rather than a simple "charging foul on Joe Basketball, his first." He sounds so darn pompous, and repetitive.

Speaking of fouls, if WMU had kept up the pace from the first 10 minutes, they wouldn't have had enough players for the second half.

[DukieInBrasil]

How many guys had career highs tonight?

Curry tied his Duke high with 22, Thornton had 12, Hairston had 13 and Cook had 16.

Hairston's career high is 14, last year. Still, nice to see such good production from guys who haven't produced a whole lot of scoring so far ('cept of course, Curry).

[stillcrazie]

Does anyone know why the PA volume in Cameron is about three times too loud?

Because we're old?

[dukeballboy88]

I like how Rivers is letting the game come to him.

Cook plays with alot of swagger.

Im ready for Silent G to start.

[loran16]

By my count, I think this was a 77 possession game, meaning giving up 70 points means simply giving up .91 points per possession - Right in line with our seasonal average. It's not great but we weren't rolling our regulars all game.

They scored 70 not because of bad D, but because we played extremely fast.

[Kedsy]

Im ready for Silent G to start.

Who do you think he'll start ahead of?

[UrinalCake]

Who do you think he'll start ahead of?

The only lineup that would make sense in my mind would be moving Seth to the bench. So we'd start with Cook, Rivers, G, Kelly and Mason. That gives us a more "conventional" lineup with a ton of firepower waiting to come in. But I don't think that puts our best 5 players on the floor. People seem to be down on Curry with all this talk about what Quinn and Tyler do better, but let's not forget he's an incredible scorer on a team that's still figuring out everyone's roles.

[devildeac]

Was I hallucinating or did Len Elmore really say that Cameron has only been a tough place to play for the past 10 or 11 years?

Nice tuneup game, nice to see us jump in and play hard after the layoff.

I think you are confused. You are the lucid one hearing Smellmore say that and he was the one hallucinating. I guess one gets oxygen deprived at that level in CIS and the fumes from his broadcast partner partially overcome him also:rolleyes:.

[devildeac]

maybe it's just such a different perspective being AT the game, but i felt that the team's defense was really lacking...i know that we won by a large margin, but there were shots being taken that our guys didn't even TRY to block.....WM got a lot of shots that they shouldn't have...


That was our perception from Section 21, too. Glad you were able to attend.

[OldPhiKap]

That was our perception from Section 21, too. Glad you were able to attend.

That was my first game in Section 21, enjoyed it tremendously.

I'm not terribly worried about the D. We were up by so many points, and had so many different combinations on the floor, I think it was kind of expected. WM added some points at real junk time too in order to close the gap.

Ryan and Mase did not see a lot of floor time after the first 40 seconds of the second half, either. I would not have wanted to be in that huddle during K's time-out. Yeesh.

[Saratoga2]

By my count, I think this was a 77 possession game, meaning giving up 70 points means simply giving up .91 points per possession - Right in line with our seasonal average. It's not great but we weren't rolling our regulars all game.

They scored 70 not because of bad D, but because we played extremely fast.

I agree that more possessions mean more points for the opponent as well. That does not mean that we should have been giving up easy baskets in the second half, but we were. I attribute those more to the many lineups that we had in the game, particularly in the second half. They scored a lot of points in the paint, meaning easy entry passes and a relaxed interior defense.

[Saratoga2]

Who do you think he'll start ahead of?

Do you mean Michael ahead of Andre in the lineup? I think that coach K made it clear in his quotes from last nights game that we are deep at all positions, with two point guards (neither being Curry), several shooting guards and up to 4 interior players.

Quinn is coming on strongly as the best offensive point guard with Tyler a tough defender who may turn out to be a better scorer than he at first seemed.

Miles is also asserting himself and seems best against a big front line. He still makes mental errors out there which seems to me to be related to his ability to process what is happening on the court quickly.

Seth has his shooting touch back making his injury seem like it was hurting his release and maybe quickness. He still is turnover prone at times and is better at the shooting guard position.

Depending on the matchups, our best lineup may be Seth, Quinn, Austin, Mason and Ryan. If that lineup is too small against some opponents, it creates a problem, since we will still need either Tyler or Quinn on the floor, so who do you sit? I don't expect coach K to use Austin as the PG, which seems like the only other reasonable alternative if we have to go bigger. My guess is we will work with a smaller guard lineup regardless.

[House G]

Was I hallucinating or did Len Elmore really say that Cameron has only been a tough place to play for the past 10 or 11 years?

Nice tuneup game, nice to see us jump in and play hard after the layoff.

Obviously, Mr. Elmore has a short memory. I was also at this game and Cameron was every bit as tough a place to play back then as it is now IMO:
http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?814-Greatest-game-I-ever-witnessed-Duke-Maryland-1972-73-season

[DukieInBrasil]

Hairston's career high is 14, last year. Still, nice to see such good production from guys who haven't produced a whole lot of scoring so far ('cept of course, Curry).
Oops, sorry, it was 12 vs SLU, so yes, he did set a career high last night. Good work Josh, plus a solid night on FTs (both in getting there and then making them).

[Dopeshop]

The best thing about the W. MI game is that Mason RAISED his FT percentage ! 1 for 2....

[jimsumner]

Obviously, Mr. Elmore has a short memory. I was also at this game and Cameron was every bit as tough a place to play back then as it is now IMO:
http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?814-Greatest-game-I-ever-witnessed-Duke-Maryland-1972-73-season

Duke also beat Maryland in Cameron in 1972. It was the only home game I missed in four years at Duke. [grad boards]

So, Maryland was 1-2 at Duke when Elmore was there.

The idea that Duke has only been a tough place to play in the last 10-15 years is beyond ludicrous.

[devildeac]

Duke also beat Maryland in Cameron in 1972. It was the only home game I missed in four years at Duke. [grad boards]

So, Maryland was 1-2 at Duke when Elmore was there.

The idea that Duke has only been a tough place to play in the last 10-15 years is beyond ludicrous.

That's Elmore for you. Must have been oxygen deprivation and/or fumes from the broadcast booth for old Len:rolleyes:.

[hustleplays]

From My experience at the Duke game, It is clear that Quinn Cook should start at Point Guard. I mean everybody saw how much better UNC got when they made Kendall Marshall their point guard. It's the same way here. Duke is so much more explosive and a way better offensive threat with Quinn Cook at PG. Tyler Thorton would be an excellent back up and I hope Coach K makes the switch.

A number of us have been pushing for Quinn to get more minutes, and we're glad that he is, and that he is already showing his great talent, particularly on offense. I noticed that Coach in post-game referred to Quinn's injury and his not having had much practice time earlier in the season. But over the last month, Quinn and Tyler have been running the offense in practice, and Quinn's comfort level seems to be increasing steadily. 8 assists, no turnovers, plus good shooting. I think that he and Seth are getting more adjusted to each other, and that will be fun to see -- Seth hunting for his shot, being the great 2 guard scorer that we know he is. With Austin in there, getting better and better as driver, shooter and disher, what a great backcourt!

[ncexnyc]

We've got a 7 page thread titled, "Tyler Thornton's Offense" and a 2 page and counting thread titled, "We have our PG" and people are upset with Elmore's comment about us not having a PG.:confused:

A very nice game last night, loved the up tempo game Quinn brings as the PG. Love Tyler's hustle when he saved the block made by Miles by diving out of bounds and knocking the ball to a teamate a play which resulted in a basket. That's what an intangible is!

[OldPhiKap]

We've got a 7 page thread titled, "Tyler Thornton's Offense" and a 2 page and counting thread titled, "We have our PG" and people are upset with Elmore's comment about us not having a PG.:confused:

A very nice game last night, loved the up tempo game Quinn brings as the PG. Love Tyler's hustle when he saved the block made by Miles by diving out of bounds and knocking the ball to a teamate a play which resulted in a basket. That's what an intangible is!

Elmore is a Harvard Law grad, and the best coach Harvard has had in generations is a Duke grad.

Must piss him off royally.

Heh.

[Kedsy]

Do you mean Michael ahead of Andre in the lineup?

No, I don't mean anything of the kind. I believe Michael will be reduced to playing just a few minutes a game except in blowouts, starting next week. I was responding to a post where the poster said he was "ready" for Michael to start, and I was wondering who, among our current starters, he could possibly think Michael would start ahead of.

I'm hoping Quinn's strong play means we'll have an 8-man rotation this year (rather than 7), but I still believe 9 or 10 is too much to hope for.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Which differentiated it from Duke Outdoor Stadium, the name of our football stadium prior to being named after Wallace Wade.
If I may play amateur historian here, I remember hearing it called Indoor Stadium without Duke in the name. People outside Duke may have added that nomenclature for their own purposes.

I had the impression that the name was selected, at least in part, because money from the first Rose Bowl appearance was a significant source of funding which made it possible to build an arena for basketball, an arena sometimes described as being the finest south of the Palestra.

[Kedsy]

I had the impression that the name was selected, at least in part, because money from the first Rose Bowl appearance was a significant source of funding which made it possible to build an arena for basketball, an arena sometimes described as being the finest south of the Palestra.

And which (if I'm not mistaken) was designed by the same architect who designed the Palestra.

[jimsumner]

If I may play amateur historian here, I remember hearing it called Indoor Stadium without Duke in the name. People outside Duke may have added that nomenclature for their own purposes.

I had the impression that the name was selected, at least in part, because money from the first Rose Bowl appearance was a significant source of funding which made it possible to build an arena for basketball, an arena sometimes described as being the finest south of the Palestra.

It was called Duke Indoor Stadium to distinguish it from the Outdoor Stadium, now known as Wallace Wade.

[Indoor66]

If I may play amateur historian here, I remember hearing it called Indoor Stadium without Duke in the name. People outside Duke may have added that nomenclature for their own purposes.

I agree with on the calling it the Indoor Stadium. I believe the official name was Duke Indoor Stadium but those at Duke and in the area called it the Indoor Stadium.

[sagegrouse]

And which (if I'm not mistaken) was designed by the same architect who designed the Palestra.

Not true, although the interior is virtually identical to the Palestra. The Palestra opened in 1927 and was designed by Charles Klauder, a Philadelphia architect (1872-1938). The similarity to Cameron (opened in 1940) is not as obvious now after the paneling and other accoutrements added after 1992.

The listed architects are Horace Trombauer and Julian Abele (1881-1950). Trumbauer was the nominate partner in the law firm, and Julian Abele, an African-American, was the chief designer for the firm for 20 years. Abele is credited as the designer of the entire Duke West Campus, and specifically recognized for the Duke Chapel. He was the first A-A graduate of the Penn School of Architecture and studied extensively in Europe. One display on Abele I saw on the Penn campus 15 years ago claimed that he never visited the Duke campus. Yikes!

sagegrouse

[jimsumner]

Not true, although the interior is virtually identical to the Palestra. The Palestra opened in 1927 and was designed by Charles Klauder, a Philadelphia architect (1872-1938). The similarity to Cameron (opened in 1940) is not as obvious now after the paneling and other accoutrements added after 1992.

The listed architects are Horace Trombauer and Julian Abele (1881-1950). Trumbauer was the nominate partner in the law firm, and Julian Abele, an African-American, was the chief designer for the firm for 20 years. Abele is credited as the designer of the entire Duke West Campus, and specifically recognized for the Duke Chapel. He was the first A-A graduate of the Penn School of Architecture and studied extensively in Europe. One display on Abele I saw on the Penn campus 15 years ago claimed that he never visited the Duke campus. Yikes!

sagegrouse

Several experts told Duke that they were crazy to build a basketball facility seating 9,000. Way too large. No way college basketball in the South would ever draw that many people.

[uh_no]

And which (if I'm not mistaken) was designed by the same architect who designed the Palestra.

though not the architecht (as someone pointed out) I believe he took many architectural ideas from the palestra while designing cameron. (no citation)

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

It was called Duke Indoor Stadium to distinguish it from the Outdoor Stadium, now known as Wallace Wade.

I attended Duke in the '60s (when Duke was the top football team in the ACC). Until reading this thread, I never heard the stadium referred to as the "Outdoor Stadium." It was always "Duke Stadium" before being renamed "Wallace Wade."

[Jim3k]

I attended Duke in the '60s (when Duke was the top football team in the ACC). Until reading this thread, I never heard the stadium referred to as the "Outdoor Stadium." It was always "Duke Stadium" before being renamed "Wallace Wade."

A member of the Class of '64 agrees.

[Duvall]

Now I'm wondering why the football stadium is Wallace Wade Stadium, but the basketball stadium was never called Edmund Cameron Indoor Stadium.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Now I'm wondering why the football stadium is Wallace Wade Stadium, but the basketball stadium was never called Edmund Cameron Indoor Stadium.

Rule book limits names of sports venues to three words.

[Duke71]

Rule book limits names of sports venues to three words.

Love that analysis. The three word rule rules. Edmund just doesn't have a good ring to it, does it?

[Indoor66]

Love that analysis. The three word rule rules. Edmund just doesn't have a good ring to it, does it?

Maybe 'cause he was always Eddy?

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Maybe 'cause he was always Eddy?

He was "Eddie."

[Indoor66]

He was "Eddie."

Sorry about that, I was up too early.... :cool:

[OldPhiKap]

He was "Eddie."

Which is also why it's not historic "John" Coombs Field.