We have our point guard

[ricks68]

I think we have our point guard. Cook has looked very comfortable out there for two games in a row now. And, as I am writing this, he just blocked a shot and recovered the ball for a steal. If the player he passed to on the resulting fast break had made the wide-open shot, he would also have had the assist. Curry has been really into the flow since he now doesn't have to run the point with Quin or Tyler in there, and is really having a great game. I think that Seth has had a lot of trouble trying to adjust running the point while still looking for his shot. Quinn has had no trouble doing both, as he is used to that position. While Tyler brings energy, I do not think there is a drop off in that department when Quinn is in there now. I must admit that I have not been too impressed with the team this year, as there appears to have been a lack of definitive leadership out there. With Quinn at the point, and Tyler as a back-up, with a few more games that way, I think we may have arrived. Oh, and by the way, as a response to some previous posts about Tyler not being know as a scorer or a 3-point shooter, I believe that he was a great scorer in high school. I thought he averaged somewhere around 25 a game his junior or senior year, but I have been unable to access his high school stats. Maybe someone out there can either confirm or refute this factoid.

ricks

[uh_no]

nothing against quinn, but I refuse to garner anything from these blowout wins. Its impossible to have any idea of his defensive prowess (or lack thereof) while playing a team so ridiculously overmatched as w-mich was tonight.

[Saratoga2]

nothing against quinn, but I refuse to garner anything from these blowout wins. Its impossible to have any idea of his defensive prowess (or lack thereof) while playing a team so ridiculously overmatched as w-mich was tonight.

Quinn did what the others weren't doing, that is that he ran the team without turnovers and he made excellent decisions with the ball. To me, the defense was raggedy out there tonight, but I thought Quinn held his side of the defense quite well. I like what he has done at point and it is something to build on.

[uh_no]

Quinn did what the others weren't doing, that is that he ran the team without turnovers and he made excellent decisions with the ball. To me, the defense was raggedy out there tonight, but I thought Quinn held his side of the defense quite well. I like what he has done at point and it is something to build on.

No doubt he did everything that was asked of him tonight: just that he may not be able to replicate that success against the teams we will need to beat to be successful by duke standards, and may not even be the best option for the team in those situations. No amount of great performances in 40+ point blowouts are going to prove the opposite.

[OldPhiKap]

Quinn, Tyler, Austin, Seth all looked good tonight.

Hope Dre's back is okay, he had a big smile whenever they showed him and he looked good when he was in.

We've got a lot of talent with various skills. Interesting puzzle for K to put together this year.

[wallyman]

Quinn was great, but Tyler wasn't too shabby either. ESPN box score had him at 4-4 from the field, all threes. 2 rebs and 3 assts. He might not set hearts on fire (outside of Maui anyway), but Quinn wasn't the only point guard who got it done today.

[UrinalCake]

I agree that we shouldn't get too excited based on the last few games against inferior competition. If Seth had been running the point tonight I think he could have put up numbers similar to Quinn's. Nevertheless, based on how Coach K has been assigning playing time and lineups it does seem like we're going to see a change.

[mkline09]

Thought Tyler and Quinn both played well. Not too bad for a team with no point guard, at least according to Len Elmore. And thanks to Mike Patrick the geography whiz who pointed out Quinn Cook is from Chicago. I had no idea, I thought he was from DC this whole time.

[Mike Corey]

While we can't actually conclude that we've found our point guard, it does appear that the experiment with Seth Curry as the point guard has ended.

[fgb]

seth has had a habit of dribbling into traffic with his head down at times when he's been the at the point, which has led to a number of turnovers; quin does a much better job of keeping his head up when he has the ball. it seems to me, at any rate.

[loldevilz]

Quinn did what the others weren't doing, that is that he ran the team without turnovers and he made excellent decisions with the ball. To me, the defense was raggedy out there tonight, but I thought Quinn held his side of the defense quite well. I like what he has done at point and it is something to build on.

The defense was questionable at times, but I don't think it can't be improved. Frankly, the way we were playing on offense with Cook in the game, the other team couldn't have beaten us if they had the offensive game of their lives. Quinn found the open guy on every possession. More than anything it was just beautiful basketball on offense which was a pleasure to watch.

[roywhite]

While we can't actually conclude that we've found our point guard, it does appear that the experiment with Seth Curry as the point guard has ended.

Yeah, seems that way.

Seth sure looked relaxed and comfortable with his more familiar role.
What a great looking stroke he has when he's on.
We really don't want to lose that in an attempt to squeeze him into the PG role.

[Newton_14]

Yeah, seems that way.

Seth sure looked relaxed and comfortable with his more familiar role.
What a great looking stroke he has when he's on.
We really don't want to lose that in an attempt to squeeze him into the PG role.

In fairness though, Seth played the point for the first 7 games, and shot the ball extremely well. His slump started with the OSU game and then the games that followed when he was moved off the ball. A lot of people seem to have forgotten just how well Seth played and shot the ball in those 7 games while playing the point against strong competition. Tonight was actually the first really good offensive game he has had since the switch was made.

Seth, Quinn, Tyler, and Austin, all had really strong games tonight. Nice to see the balance, and the high level of play from all of them. That' two good games in a row from Quinn. It will be interesting to see if he can sustain that level of play as the competition stiffens. I liked his defense tonight as well.

Although Penn is not a really strong team, they do have a really good backcourt, so Sunday will be a test for Tyler, Quinn, and the SG's. Which is good. Will only serve to prepare them for conference play.

[BD80]

While we can't actually conclude that we've found our point guard, it does appear that the experiment with Seth Curry as the point guard has ended.

Uh oh. Does that mean we are exploiting Seth since he needs to be a point at the next level? [Heavy Sarcasm]

I don't see this team as a puzzle, but more as an arsenal of weapons for Coach K to deploy. It is a fun team to watch except when Mason is at the line.

A weak conference this year is going to hurt this team; I think we would do better if we had a few more bloody noses - figuratively speaking - to see who steps up in the face of adversity.

[Kedsy]

nothing against quinn, but I refuse to garner anything from these blowout wins. Its impossible to have any idea of his defensive prowess (or lack thereof) while playing a team so ridiculously overmatched as w-mich was tonight.

Spot on. Quinn played very well on offense tonight, especially his passing, which was supurb. But it's hard to take too much from a game like this. Personally, I wasn't particularly impressed with our perimeter defense tonight, by anybody. Although I will say I didn't see much difference between Tyler and Quinn on the defensive end, and if that continues, it bodes well for Quinn.

[Greg_Newton]

Spot on. Quinn played very well on offense tonight, especially his passing, which was supurb. But it's hard to take too much from a game like this. Personally, I wasn't particularly impressed with our perimeter defense tonight, by anybody. Although I will say I didn't see much difference between Tyler and Quinn on the defensive end, and if that continues, it bodes well for Quinn.

Both K and Quinn alluded to a two-headed monster approach postgame; 4 minutes of Quinn playing all out, 4 minutes of Tyler, etc. I still think we should put the ball in Rivers' hands, as I've posted in the "Phase" thread, but it's an interesting idea; Quinn plays some ferocious defense in stretches, when he's really going nuts and basically doing the machine-gun drill. He got beat at times tonight, but other times he was really getting after the ballhandler, talking to him, getting after him, which was great. If he even learn to do that for 4 minutes at a time - then maybe we play a slower, more post-centric game while Thornton's in for his 4 - that would be great.

Of course, like you say, we're getting excited about games against overmatched, undersized opponents that Cook should play well against; looking forward in early December, we predicted this would happen, based on the schedule. Will he still be able to do what he does against the 6'3-6'4 PGs on Temple and NCSU? How will he fare against solid, veteran PGs like Miami's Grant or Clemson's Young?

We're sure fun to watch while he's in, though.

[DUKIE V(A)]

I think we have our point guard. Cook has looked very comfortable out there for two games in a row now. And, as I am writing this, he just blocked a shot and recovered the ball for a steal. If the player he passed to on the resulting fast break had made the wide-open shot, he would also have had the assist. Curry has been really into the flow since he now doesn't have to run the point with Quin or Tyler in there, and is really having a great game. I think that Seth has had a lot of trouble trying to adjust running the point while still looking for his shot. Quinn has had no trouble doing both, as he is used to that position. While Tyler brings energy, I do not think there is a drop off in that department when Quinn is in there now. I must admit that I have not been too impressed with the team this year, as there appears to have been a lack of definitive leadership out there. With Quinn at the point, and Tyler as a back-up, with a few more games that way, I think we may have arrived. Oh, and by the way, as a response to some previous posts about Tyler not being know as a scorer or a 3-point shooter, I believe that he was a great scorer in high school. I thought he averaged somewhere around 25 a game his junior or senior year, but I have been unable to access his high school stats. Maybe someone out there can either confirm or refute this factoid.

ricks

I agree that we have our point guard(s) in Cook (and Thornton). I believe TT averaged just short of 15 a game his junior and senior years at Gonzaga. Gonzaga plays in probably the toughest high school league in the country and his teams had many quality scorers on it. Had he played for his public high school (I have heard South Lakes in Reston, Va but I am not sure if this is accurate) he likely would have been asked to score more.


more.

[hillsborodevil]

Spot on. Quinn played very well on offense tonight, especially his passing, which was supurb. But it's hard to take too much from a game like this. Personally, I wasn't particularly impressed with our perimeter defense tonight, by anybody. Although I will say I didn't see much difference between Tyler and Quinn on the defensive end, and if that continues, it bodes well for Quinn.

I really dont care if the competition was subpar - QC still outplayed TT overall.

QC is quicker, has a better handle, better driving ability, court vision, passing skills, tons of swagger, and the young man can hit FT's. The entire team is more fluid with QC at PG.

The only thing that could stop QC from starting is his knee - hopefully no swelling Saturday.

[MChambers]

And thanks to Mike Patrick the geography whiz who pointed out Quinn Cook is from Chicago. I had no idea, I thought he was from DC this whole time.
I guess he's from Cook County. Or maybe he's from there solely for voting purposes.

[OldPhiKap]

I guess he's from Cook County. Or maybe he's from there solely for voting purposes.

There's a little bit of Chicago in all of us.

[mcches]

Regardless of the competition, I like what I see from Quinn Cook. Duke just seems more up-tempo, explosive, and dynamic with Cook. As tenacious as Tyler is, he fouls alot and gets beat on the dribble drive. With both Tyler and Seth at PG, Duke just seems slower and more methodical and neither is the great passer that Quinn is. Though he still has room for improvement, I think Quinn Cook is our man at PG with significant relief from Tyler. Fortunately, both are natural leaders, just what we need at PG.

[roywhite]

Alternating point guards of Tyler Thornton and Quinn Cook seems to be the strategy for now, and it looks promising. Seth and Austin still will make plays or do some ball handling, but it will be primarily Quinn and Tyler operating at a high tempo for stretches of approx. 4 minutes each. Coach K wants to push the pace and use our depth.

If one of the two would emerge as a clear choice, perhaps the rotation will change. But for now, this seems to make a lot of sense.

[MarkD83]

One of the comments I keep hearing on TV is that "By Duke standards, Duke does not have......."

This year it appears that these comments are mostly directed at the point guard position and most of it subconciously may be due to the fact that Kyrie could be a sophomore at Duke.

Quinn and Tyler are a great pair of point guards to have. They are also much more of the prototype PG from 10 years ago: play defense, distribute the ball and don't turn it over. They don't need to score and any points that they get makes it harder to defend Duke. Even 3-5 years ago we as Duke fans would have loved to have either Quinn or Tyler on the roster to play PG.

I for one am enjoying the return to a back court that has a PG that distributes and shoots to keep the defense honest (Quinn or Tyler) and a group of scorers ( Seth, Austin and Andre) who can't be left alone on the perimeter, which leaves the middle open for our bigs. (I think Mason benefits the most from this because he does not appear to be double teamed that much.) In addition, there are plenty of bodies in case someone is having an off night or is in foul trouble.

[Truth]

Spot on. Quinn played very well on offense tonight, especially his passing, which was supurb. But it's hard to take too much from a game like this. Personally, I wasn't particularly impressed with our perimeter defense tonight, by anybody. Although I will say I didn't see much difference between Tyler and Quinn on the defensive end, and if that continues, it bodes well for Quinn.

This.

Once Quinn can regularly exercise defensive efforts similar to Tyler... game on!

[-jk]

One of the comments I keep hearing on TV is that "By Duke standards, Duke does not have......."

This year it appears that these comments are mostly directed at the point guard position and most of it subconciously may be due to the fact that Kyrie could be a sophomore at Duke.

Quinn and Tyler are a great pair of point guards to have. They are also much more of the prototype PG from 10 years ago: play defense, distribute the ball and don't turn it over. They don't need to score and any points that they get makes it harder to defend Duke. Even 3-5 years ago we as Duke fans would have loved to have either Quinn or Tyler on the roster to play PG.

I for one am enjoying the return to a back court that has a PG that distributes and shoots to keep the defense honest (Quinn or Tyler) and a group of scorers ( Seth, Austin and Andre) who can't be left alone on the perimeter, which leaves the middle open for our bigs. (I think Mason benefits the most from this because he does not appear to be double teamed that much.) In addition, there are plenty of bodies in case someone is having an off night or is in foul trouble.

Um, I think we had Jason Williams about ten years ago.

-jk

[Duvall]

Um, I think we had Jason Williams about ten years ago.

-jk

We're working on Elmore Time - everything was 10-15 years ago.

[wilko]

This.

Once Quinn can regularly exercise defensive efforts similar to Tyler... game on!

I thought it was funny when Elmore mentioned that Quinn would have to be a better defender.... Quin gets a steal off a shot he JUST blocked.. Then Elmore backtracks and says against "better competition" or some such..

It was a heck of a play - let the guy have his moment.

[COYS]

I thought it was funny when Elmore mentioned that Quinn would have to be a better defender.... Quin gets a steal off a shot he JUST blocked.. Then Elmore backtracks and says against "better competition" or some such..

It was a heck of a play - let the guy have his moment.

There's always a caveat from Len when praising a Duke player, haha. I just expect that, now. He's quickly taking up Billy Packer's mantle as the "Scrooge" of color commentators in the ACC.

I do wish people would do their research before commenting on Quinn and the rest of the Duke team, though. They constantly say silly stuff like "Seth Curry is so much better off the ball" when, until last night, he had actually been much better when he had the ball in his hands more at the point guard spot. Or they say something like "It's so surprising to see Quinn score in double figures since he averaged only 4.4 ppg coming in" when if they had done their research they'd know that he was coming off a knee injury which kept him out of action until October and therefore put him behind the curve compared to the rest of the team. Now that he's getting healthy, it's clear why he was one of the top point guards in his recruiting class (and he would have been rated higher if his injury hadn't held him back a bit during his senior season in high school).

Finally, Len repeats over and over that Duke is not as athletic as most recent Duke teams and relies on it's skill and execution to win. It IS true that in Tyler, Quinn, and Seth, Duke has not yet found someone who can stop the ball consistently at the point of attack. It is also true that with Dawkins in the lineup, we give up a lot of size against some teams at the three. However, I actually think Duke has plenty of athletic talent and working to blend that talent with skill is the real challenge. Mason's footwork on hedges and rotations is still lacking a little bit. He has a lot of wasted motion which slows him down. Austin Rivers is as quick off the dribble as anyone in the nation. He's developing his court vision and diversifying his scoring moves (i.e. improving his skills) as he adjusts to the college game. Andre has yet to fully utilize his explosive leaping ability and strength on the offensive end (getting to the rim) and on the defensive end (rebounding). Quinn very quick with the ball but is learning how to translate that quickness into playing lock-down defense. Mike G has the size and athletic ability to play with the best small forwards, but his skills are still raw on both sides of the ball.

Honestly, really only Seth and Ryan fit Len's description of players who's skills are ahead of their athletic ability. Duke has a high ceiling if Mason develops better team defense skills, Andre learns how to better use his athletic ability to his advantage on both sides of the ball, Austin continues to improve his efficiency, and Quinn and MikeG continue to develop their skills on both sides of the ball. I really think Len is backward on his perception of Duke. We might not have Nolan Smith, Elliott Williams, Sean Dockery, or Chris Duhon locking down opposing point guards, but there's more than enough athleticism to go around. The players just need to develop their skills both individually and collectively to improve the team defense and refine an already potent offensive attack.

[Wildcat]

findng the astonishing features of Quinn Cook's game. He's okay; but he appears very average with skills similar to the other players we have. I am almost sickenned by our plethora of three-point shooters. I don't see anything too much different. It's borng to watch, beause you know against top talent it dissappears. That's why i hope we cultivate "other looks," from a starting five perspective. The Cook kid hasn't shown me that much to get overly excited about him yet. And AR seems to have one gear: fast, hard and strong.

[Gthoma2a]

findng the astonishing features of Quinn Cook's game. He's okay; but he appears very average with skills similar to the other players we have. I am almost sickenned by our plethora of three-point shooters. I don't see anything too much different. It's borng to watch, beause you know against top talent it dissappears. That's why i hope we cultivate "other looks," from a starting five perspective. The Cook kid hasn't shown me that much to get overly excited about him yet. And AR seems to have one gear: fast, hard and strong.

You sound like you want every player to be Kyrie. It isn't going to disappear anymore than Kendall Marshall disappears against top talent. Quinn is a pure PG. He isn't a huge scoring PG. That is who he is and how he plays. He can and will take shots if someone isn't open, but he learned during his time at Oak Hill (leading that team) that what is good for his stat line isn't always best for the team. Kyrie wowed us last year during the tournament with point production. Even in our last game that we got blown out in, but he was having to call his own number like a pure scorer over and over instead of playing a PG role. I want a guy who plays within the flow of the team more this year since we have depth and options. That is who Quinn is. We have lost one game, admittedly badly (he didn't play much in that game). I hardly see the reason to be so melancholy this early. I also don't think, even UNC, is going to be better than us by the time we get to them. Come tournament time, we will be fine against anyone.

If you are looking for us to be an NBA team, you will find that cheering for Kentucky is more your speed, but they still lose come tournament time.

[airowe]

8-0 assist to turnover ratio in this game with 2 steals. Quinn's impact on this game was tremendous, even if it was against inferior competition.

[tele]

It's early days...Nice to see Cook get to play some extended minutes and play well. All the Guards played well, Andre excepted. It will be good to have depth in the backcourt against tough competition in crunch time when the games really count. I still think experience will count the most then, and barring injury, doubt that Duke will start two freshmen in the backcourt. Doesn't mean they won't play two freshmen at times, but I still would expect the ball to be in Curry's hands when the games are on the line late in the season; Whether he's the true and annointed point or not. It would be nice if one of the potential points could break their defender down with the dribble and get to the basket, only Rivers does this consistently.

Point guard is the ultimate role player, and who plays the position will be largely a matter of trust by the coach in the players ability to fit the role the way the coach wants and expects, that usually takes some time and comes with experience. Even ol' Roy held Kendall out of the starting spot until a couple of games shy of half way through the conference season last year, giving Marshall time to gain experience before opposing coaches got to focus on trying to deconstruct his game.

This part of the season is also a good time to show opposing coaches different looks so they have to prepare for different things, like 3/4 court traps, and 2 3 zones etc, or even freshman point guards instead of the guy who you will really be going to when the game is on the line, imho curry or possibly even Rivers.

[Scorp4me]

I mentioned last night how great it was to have 3 point guards who all bring such different looks to the table. My wife (who knows all the players by name) kept asking why wasn't the second string in last night late in the game, to which I had to reply...they are, they're just good. I love what Quinn brings to the game off the bench and I love starting the game with Tyler's experience, but I also am loving the rotation K has worked out. He has brought order and created an advantage to something that many thought (and some still do, such as the announcers last night) was a weakness.

Of course, I would have been shocked...and I do mean shocked...to have not seen a thread like this on the board today. Tyler's gotta wake up and just go, man what do I gotta do...I mean, if he read message boards lol.

[Gthoma2a]

The truth is that it is something that Tyler can't do... have a higher ceiling than Quinn. Tyler is an awesome player coming into being comfortable shooting, but the offense just doesn't seem to come as natural to him as it does Quinn right now. Quinn hits people in stride over and over and over, sets up the offense well and handles the ball with ease while looking up court for the next move. Quinn looked great on the breaks and that one handed bounce pass to Austin was a thing of beauty.

[Kedsy]

I really dont care if the competition was subpar - QC still outplayed TT overall.

QC is quicker, has a better handle, better driving ability, court vision, passing skills, tons of swagger, and the young man can hit FT's. The entire team is more fluid with QC at PG.

The only thing that could stop QC from starting is his knee - hopefully no swelling Saturday.

Quinn will start ahead of Tyler when Quinn's defense is as good as Tyler's (or at least very close). He looked really good on offense last night, but that's the less important aspect at this point in time.

[wilko]

Tyler's gotta wake up and just go, man what do I gotta do...I mean, if he read message boards lol.

Tyler sure seems like a cool dude.
But he came in with Kyrie and is playing along with Quinn. We had some interest from Myck Kabongo should Quinn not have been up to a return to playing this yr. No disrespect for TT, but I think he knows his role by now. He brings a lot to the table; as a change of pace guy.

Maybe by His Sr yr... who knows.

[Bob Green]

No disrespect for TT, but I think he knows his role by now. He brings a lot to the table; as a change of pace guy.

Maybe by His Sr yr... who knows.

I don't understand your post. Perhaps you are being funny or sarcastic and it is going over my head (that happens to me a lot), but seeing as Tyler Thornton is our starting point guard, when you say, "Maybe by His Sr yr...who knows" what point are you actually trying to communicate?

[wilko]

I don't understand your post. Perhaps you are being funny or sarcastic and it is going over my head (that happens to me a lot), but seeing as Tyler Thornton is our starting point guard, when you say, "Maybe by His Sr yr...who knows" what point are you actually trying to communicate?


In TT's class we brought in Kyrie. This yr we bring in another top PG recruit in Quinn. He's competing against these guys for playing time. Most guys in that position wouldn't be as amenable to the situation. I'm not dissing TT, not intentionally. I think that the more burn QC gets the harder it will be to keep him off the court.

I happen to think that TT is closer to Andre Buckner than William Avery. QC reminds me a tad of WA. from this limited sample survey. No Shame; Andre is one of our guys and I'm happy for his contributions and wish him well in the future. I'll do the same for TT when he's on the court for Duke and beyond.

But I really don't feel TT is the guy to most effectively run the team. That could easily change in a game or 2, but right now I Quinn his due.

[CDu]

I don't understand your post. Perhaps you are being funny or sarcastic and it is going over my head (that happens to me a lot), but seeing as Tyler Thornton is our starting point guard, when you say, "Maybe by His Sr yr...who knows" what point are you actually trying to communicate?

I would word this slightly differently. Thornton is starting, but I wouldn't say he is our starting PG. He is a starting perimeter player, but the PG duties (in terms of bringing the ball up court and initiating the offense) have still primarily belonged to Curry and Rivers, with Cook taking an expanded role as well.

[turnandburn55]

I happen to think that TT is closer to Andre Buckner than William Avery. QC reminds me a tad of WA. from this limited sample survey. No Shame; Andre is one of our guys and I'm happy for his contributions and wish him well in the future. I'll do the same for TT when he's on the court for Duke and beyond.

Andre Buckner? Really?? IIRC correctly, Buckner was an emergency recruit we grabbed at the last second due to losing 4 underclassmen and having no other options at PG beyond J-Will. Buckner was a great teammate and a terrific practice player, but the dude scored fewer points in his entire career than Thornton has already.

If you want a comparison, Sean Dockery may be a bit more apt. The master plan was supposed to go from Duhon to Livingston, with Dockery filling in as a useful backup. He gradually became a capable player and occasional starter, even a very good defender and hit a memorable three-pointer or two... but we were always looking elsewhere for "the answer" at PG whether it be senior Daniel Ewing or freshman Greg Paulus. Tyler Thornton's career arc will likely be similar.

[uh_no]

Spot on. Quinn played very well on offense tonight, especially his passing, which was supurb. But it's hard to take too much from a game like this. Personally, I wasn't particularly impressed with our perimeter defense tonight, by anybody. Although I will say I didn't see much difference between Tyler and Quinn on the defensive end, and if that continues, it bodes well for Quinn.

Certainly, but as others have pointed out, Tyler isn't going down without a fight. Ultimately one of these guys is gonna win the spot, and they're both putting their best out there, and for sure, whoever wins it will be most deserving. And the guy who doesn't "win" is still going to be enormously important to the success of this team, both this year and down the road.

We should be lucky we have two phenomenal guys here.

Seeing all the good games these past few days makes me lick my chops for ACC season!

[Steven43]

Andre Buckner? Really?? IIRC correctly, Buckner was an emergency recruit we grabbed at the last second due to losing 4 underclassmen and having no other options at PG beyond J-Will. Buckner was a great teammate and a terrific practice player, but the dude scored fewer points in his entire career than Thornton has already.

If you want a comparison, Sean Dockery may be a bit more apt. The master plan was supposed to go from Duhon to Livingston, with Dockery filling in as a useful backup. He gradually became a capable player and occasional starter, even a very good defender and hit a memorable three-pointer or two... but we were always looking elsewhere for "the answer" at PG whether it be senior Daniel Ewing or freshman Greg Paulus. Tyler Thornton's career arc will likely be similar.

Tyler Thornton appears to be a better player right now than Andre Buckner ever was. I think the comparisons with Sean Dockery are mostly accurate, though I think Sean was quicker and a better defender while Tyler is stronger, tougher and more clutch. Overall, I prefer Tyler.

When comparing Tyler and Quinn, though, it is clear to me that Quinn is much the superior ball-handler, passer, penetrator, floor general and scorer. I think their defensive abilities are perhaps a wash with Tyler being taller, stronger, and a better rebounder while Quinn stays in front of his man better and is more apt to get a steal or get his hand on the ball. Tyler is a nice player, but Quinn has all-ACC potential.

[wilko]

Tyler is a nice player, but Quinn has all-ACC potential.

Comparison exercises aside... THIS is primary point I was trying to make.

[Saratoga2]

Certainly, but as others have pointed out, Tyler isn't going down without a fight. Ultimately one of these guys is gonna win the spot, and they're both putting their best out there, and for sure, whoever wins it will be most deserving. And the guy who doesn't "win" is still going to be enormously important to the success of this team, both this year and down the road.

We should be lucky we have two phenomenal guys here.

Seeing all the good games these past few days makes me lick my chops for ACC season!

Coach K has indicated that for now he plans to use both our point guards, keeping them fresh. Both have a lot to offer out there and we are kind of bullet proof at that position, having Curry and even Austin as backups. I like what Quinn can do with the ball, his floor vision, passing and even his scoring. Tyler does bring a toughness and probably will bring more scoring as time passes. Both are good floor leaders from what the coaches are saying. It really doesn't matter who starts when they are both likely to get a lot of PT out there.

[Devilsfan]

Quinn gets my vote. He is a natural point guard. Seth seams to look down when pushing the ball up the court in my opinion. He is a streaky shooter and when his threes are dropping I have to admit I'm a big fan of his (Seth's), but I like him off the ball best. Hope Quinn turns out to be our Marshall.

[Mike Corey]

"Guys like playing with Quinn, because he passes. He sees you in places other people have a hard time seeing you.” - Coach K, after tonight's game

[ricks68]

Well, it looks like the more Quinn plays, the more he seems to impress. He had 9 assists and 0 turnovers to go with his 8 assists and 0 turnovers from the last game. If you figure in the actual minutes he played, I would conservatively imagine that his assist totals probably would have even been considerably higher had he played the game as the primary point guard. I like what K has done, however, as it appears that with the platooning it has inspired Tyler to elevate his own offensive game, also. Oh, and by the way, it now appears that we have 2 players that can drive to the hoop with success: both Quinn and Austin. I like it. I like our new style of play a lot. Kudos to Coach K, as usual.

Additional comment for another thread: The one bright spot about Mason's lack of free throw success and his newfound ability this year to pass the ball away to opposing players on crosscourt passes in the backcourt, is that if he keeps this up, he may end up staying another year due to a possible drop in his draft ranking. Seriously.

ricks

[Mike Corey]

One more quote from Coach K: "[The offense is] a little more open when Quinn’s in.”

[mkline09]

I for one like having two point guards on this team. They are different players but both capable of contributing in their own ways. I'm really happy that Quinn has turned his game on of late. Nine assists to 0 turnovers is really impressive and 17 assists and 0 turnovers in the last two games is just flat out phenomenial. Tyler is the better defender and a smart player. Quinn is the better passer and offensive threat but both are top shelf kids and we are lucky to have either one on the court at a time.

[Gthoma2a]

Am I theonly one who thinks that Quinn is at least just as good on defense? I see Tyler getting lost about as much and fouling routinely. Quinn's fouls are usually to make up for a problem happening on offense (Austin threw a pass behind Quinn that turned out to be a pass on a Penn fastbreak). It was a small thing, but he was just trying to contest the shot instead of just giving up a basket.

[Wander]

Am I theonly one who thinks that Quinn is at least just as good on defense?

I think Quinn is just as good as Tyler at on-ball, lock-down type defense, but I still think Tyler is better at off-ball and general peskiness.

[jv001]

Coach K has indicated that for now he plans to use both our point guards, keeping them fresh. Both have a lot to offer out there and we are kind of bullet proof at that position, having Curry and even Austin as backups. I like what Quinn can do with the ball, his floor vision, passing and even his scoring. Tyler does bring a toughness and probably will bring more scoring as time passes. Both are good floor leaders from what the coaches are saying. It really doesn't matter who starts when they are both likely to get a lot of PT out there.

Quinn had 22 minutes tonight and Tyler had 17 minutes. It looks like Quinn is earning more playing time and has gained Coach K's trust. I like the fact we have two players that are productive at the pg position. GoDuke!

[sagegrouse]

Tyler and Quinn combining for 40 minutes a game before the season started? Is this the biggest surprise so far?

sage

[OldPhiKap]

Quinn had 22 minutes tonight and Tyler had 17 minutes. It looks like Quinn is earning more playing time and has gained Coach K's trust. I like the fact we have two players that are productive at the pg position. GoDuke!

Not wholly sure that we can tell a lot about minutes given that most of the game was mop-up. But I expect both to get good minutes, and both will be big contributors.

[Devilsfan]

Quinn ONLY had nine more assist than turnovers in his limited 22 minutes. I don't there is even a slight reason to have this discussion. The stats speak volumes.

[elvis14]

Quinn ONLY had nine more assist than turnovers in his limited 22 minutes. I don't there is even a slight reason to have this discussion. The stats speak volumes.

Actually, for me it's less about stats and more about the flow of the game, and more specifically, the flow of our offense. I just like they way our team plays with QC in the lineup. I also like QC's court vision and decision making. Note, that's nothing negative towards TT. I like them both and they both have strengths (like Tyler's help defense and nose for the ball).

[NSDukeFan]

Well, it looks like the more Quinn plays, the more he seems to impress. He had 9 assists and 0 turnovers to go with his 8 assists and 0 turnovers from the last game. If you figure in the actual minutes he played, I would conservatively imagine that his assist totals probably would have even been considerably higher had he played the game as the primary point guard. I like what K has done, however, as it appears that with the platooning it has inspired Tyler to elevate his own offensive game, also. Oh, and by the way, it now appears that we have 2 players that can drive to the hoop with success: both Quinn and Austin. I like it. I like our new style of play a lot. Kudos to Coach K, as usual.

Additional comment for another thread: The one bright spot about Mason's lack of free throw success and his newfound ability this year to pass the ball away to opposing players on crosscourt passes in the backcourt, is that if he keeps this up, he may end up staying another year due to a possible drop in his draft ranking. Seriously.

ricks
I think the bolded point is important. Quinn is someone who can consistently get into the lane to create offense. This team can score without dribble penetration, and the rest of the top 6 (now top 8?) have shown some ability to create some offense for themselves in one-on-one situations, but having someone else who can consistently get into the lane in addition to Rivers is big offensively. TT does still bring some leadership and off the ball defense that may still warrant a starting spot, but it is nice to have that addition to the team offensively. Hopefully, the defense (especially perimeter) continues to improve.

Tyler and Quinn combining for 40 minutes a game before the season started? Is this the biggest surprise so far?

sage

Close but, unfortunately for me, it would be Alex not playing. I was really looking forward to seeing what he could do and am certainly excited to see him next year.

[OldPhiKap]

Right from the bosses' mouth after the game yesterday, regarding playing Tyler and Quinn at the point:

“We had a chance to make that change just before the Christmas holidays for Tyler. I think we played two games that way, maybe three. Then over the Christmas holidays we evaluated and Quinn physically is better able to do that than he was even at the start of the regular season. He’s gotten stronger. His knees are better. He’s in better shape. He’s had more reps. So we wanted in these two games to take a look at alternating them. When we keep a fresh guy there we can push the ball and pressure the ball. Against these two opponents it worked well and we’ll see if it continues to work well. It is a different take than we’ve had the last few years. Although we’ve had three 30-win seasons in a row. I think what you have to do is you have to adjust to your personnel and we’re trying to learn about our personnel. But Quinn is playing great. Tyler is playing really well too. Quinn is a natural point guard. Tyler can play both. Tyler is just a really good leader. The guys like playing with Quinn because he passes and when he passes he sees you in places where other people have a hard time seeing you. I mean he has 17 assists and no turnovers for two games. I don’t care who you’re playing against and he’s playing against a really good guard. That’s impressive, very impressive.”


Looks like we will keep seeing both, which is good for me.


(Actually, a lot about Quin and Tyler and more: http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205354613 )

[pamtar]

I think the bolded point is important. Quinn is someone who can consistently get into the lane to create offense. This team can score without dribble penetration, and the rest of the top 6 (now top 8?) have shown some ability to create some offense for themselves in one-on-one situations, but having someone else who can consistently get into the lane in addition to Rivers is big offensively. TT does still bring some leadership and off the ball defense that may still warrant a starting spot, but it is nice to have that addition to the team offensively. Hopefully, the defense (especially perimeter) continues to improve.

Totally agree here. Ill add that QC has not only gotten into the lane but has tried to prove he can finish (two up and unders last night), and more importantly, has shown he can find the open man off the bounce. The old drive and kick has been somewhat absent from our offense. When your overloaded with good shooters its crucial to have someone who can draw the D and push it back out. Someone quoted K the other day saying "we shot a lot of three, but they were good threes." I think QC had a lot to do with that assessment.

I'll also agree that we should probably let this play out a bit more before anointing him the next (hate to say it but they play so similar) Kendall Marshall. FWIW though, it takes a lot for me to post these days. This is my first of the season. I think everyone is grinning about how Quinn, and this team, are shaping up!

[DUKIE V(A)]

The play of Quinn and Tyler is very exciting indeed. I also see Hairston and Silent G stepping up and being able to provide valuable minutes when called upon. Miles is also really playing well of late. Man this team is deep (and talented). Very underrated in terms of consideration with the best teams in the country. Seems as though the team chemistry is improving by the game and the shooting is deep and strong. The Assist to Turnover ratio is beginning to get fixed....

Next steps in the progression IMO...Dre being more aggressive offensively and Austin consistently passing out to open three point shooters on his killer dribble drives (he can still finish plenty on his own)...If Quinn continues to develop and Dre and Austin make these improvements, good luck to anyone knocking our boys off in March and April. This team is starting to build something that could be pretty special.

[BluDvlsN1]

Seems to me there is a considerable amount of discusssion on "who starts"!'
While it may provide some entertainment value, discussion on how high is high could do the same!
K knows better that anyone, who did what in practice, who progressed in what areas in their personal development profile...but beyond these points, the game also has a lot more to do with matchups!

Silent G starting over who ?
Quinn starting point guard?
Are Amoung some of the questions posed recently,on this thread and others....

I posted on 11/24/11 after Mauii, in part..."(Quinn.. Really like his game a ton..think he will be a consistent solid contributor before its said and done!!)"

Really makes little difference, under the broad umbrella of a coaching perspective, understanding that it's highly unlikely anyone can play for 40 minutes at the pace we want to play on both ends of the court..

What has happened is what we all had hoped would take place and that these guys would develop enough to be solid contributors by conference time, now our depth chart has expanded considerably and who starts is a less important factor than who matches up with an opposing lineup, who plays best in which lineup, and how deep can we go in the bench. And in which games if not all games!

The plan it appears is to play quick which makes perfect sense with the number of ball handlers we have,
The if and whats come down to perimeter defensive matchups, controlling the boards (think MP1) also here,
Free throw percentage and.. I know this is just another short learning curve, Austin just adjusting to this
Format !

Given any scenario, this, as always is a Duke team in development, and do we ever have a guy doing the developing... This is gonna be a lot of fun to watch..

Now that discussion and 5 bucks will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks!
Just one guys perspective !!

[ncexnyc]

Right from the bosses' mouth after the game yesterday, regarding playing Tyler and Quinn at the point:

“We had a chance to make that change just before the Christmas holidays for Tyler. I think we played two games that way, maybe three. Then over the Christmas holidays we evaluated and Quinn physically is better able to do that than he was even at the start of the regular season. He’s gotten stronger. His knees are better. He’s in better shape. He’s had more reps. So we wanted in these two games to take a look at alternating them. When we keep a fresh guy there we can push the ball and pressure the ball. Against these two opponents it worked well and we’ll see if it continues to work well. It is a different take than we’ve had the last few years. Although we’ve had three 30-win seasons in a row. I think what you have to do is you have to adjust to your personnel and we’re trying to learn about our personnel. But Quinn is playing great. Tyler is playing really well too. Quinn is a natural point guard. Tyler can play both. Tyler is just a really good leader. The guys like playing with Quinn because he passes and when he passes he sees you in places where other people have a hard time seeing you. I mean he has 17 assists and no turnovers for two games. I don’t care who you’re playing against and he’s playing against a really good guard. That’s impressive, very impressive.”


Looks like we will keep seeing both, which is good for me.


(Actually, a lot about Quin and Tyler and more: http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205354613 )

Thanks for posting the link. It's a very interesting read and one, which I'd hope more people would take a look at and take the time to comprehend.

I knew one of the coaches strenghts was his ability to adapt his style of play to the pieces he has available to him, but it was also interesting to find out that even after all this time he's looking to tinker with something that may seem so minor as bench communication. No moss growing under K's feet.

Glad to see Coach K shoot down some of the, "but it's against lesser competition" arguements that have been floated on this board about Quinn's stellar play. I also hope some people understand K's points about what each PG brings to the table. It seems many folks around here are being seduced by our throughbred PG and neglecting our war horse PG. There's a time and place for both of them, but I do cheerfully concede I too love seeing those long bounce passes and crosscourt skip passes to wide open 3 ball shooters:D

[OZZIE4DUKE]

The real winner in the "battle" between Quinn and Tyler is Duke! While I think that Quinn will be the eventual starter and brings true PG talents to the battle, Tyler's change of pace and strength really knocks opponents back and forces them to adjust their defense to a change in our style. Although last night I saw both a pass and a drive from Tyler that I didn't know he could make, so he's learning from Quinn, too! And his well timed and opportunistic three point shooting is getting better and better!

[COYS]

The real winner in the "battle" between Quin and Tyler is Duke! While I think that Quin will be the eventual starter and brings true PG talents to the battle, Tyler's change of pace and strength really knocks opponents back and forces them to adjust their defense to a change in our style. Although last night I saw both a pass and a drive from Tyler that I didn't know he could make, so he's learning from Quin, too! And his well timed and opportunistic three point shooting is getting better and better!

Yeah, Duke fans can't be anything but excited about how the point guard situation is working out. Seth has taken a more active role in setting up the offense when Tyler is in the game and the team seems to have recommitted to getting Seth open looks, which addresses one of the main concerns this board has with Tyler running the offense. Tyler is shooting well right now, which if he can keep that up, makes him more of a threat on the offensive end and allays some of the fears that the defense will be able to leave him open to double up on Seth and/or someone else. We often talk about Tyler as if he's a static player, but he has improved since the beginning of the season.

On the other hand, Quinn really looks the part of a special player. He was underrated coming out of high school because of his injury and then lost in the early shuffle as he was working his way back. However, it is obvious why the staff didn't give in to the overtures from Myck Kabongo. It is clear that Quinn has a ton of gifts on offense. He can pass and handle with the best, especially for a frosh, is quick with the ball and makes good decisions. He is very smart about where he goes to receive outlet passes so he can push the ball. Even more impressive to me is how he doesn't force the transition game even though he's always looking to run. He also doesn't waste time getting the offense moving in the half-court. He just seems to have a great intuitive feel for how the offense should work. I know that he has yet to play like this against stiff competition, but there aren't too many freshman who missed all of the preseason who could play this mistake-free even against over-matched opponents (and it might be a stretch to call UPenn over-matched, as they've their own against some pretty good teams).

Quinn's defense is improving, too even if it's not perfect. Coach K mentions that it's nice to be able to put two guys out there who can pressure the ball and keep each other fresh. I think this might be the mantra for the rest of the season in terms of our perimeter defense. None of Seth, Tyler, Quinn, or Austin are lockdown defenders, but if they can all stay fresh for the moments when they need to apply on ball pressure, it will dramatically improve their ability to stop opposing guards. Rosen is no slouch. That Quinn and Tyler combined to limit him is an accomplishment and something that I'm not sure either would have been able to do on their own for 40 minutes.

[Bob Green]

The real winner in the "battle" between Quinn and Tyler is Duke!

You hit the nail on the head with this post. A few words but a big, powerful message. Good job!


Coach K mentions that it's nice to be able to put two guys out there who can pressure the ball and keep each other fresh.

The ability to pressure the ball allows the defense to force the opponent to initiate their offense further from the basket than normal, which disrupts their offensive flow. It's a big advantage when you can force the opponent out of their comfort zone.

[CarmenWallaceWade]

Love Cook's motor and energy he brings to the game. He's been a favorite player of mine since he stepped onto the court. I think he can be the same type of consistent playmaker that other school a few miles down the road has. Quinn also plays with his head up, can thread the long pass, drive and either dish or score. A dangerous combination. Just as important is his positive attitude. He's eventually going to be a leader for this program!

[BD80]

I guess he's from Cook County. Or maybe he's from there solely for voting purposes.

He's dead?


This is not like a QB controversy, where the team that has 2 starting QBs actually has none. It helps being able to rotate PGs, allowing us to apply more defensive pressure and push the ball harder in transition. Further, Coach K loves to use multiple ball-handlers that can hit FTs to take the air out of the ball when up in game end situations. How many times have you heard pundits proclaim that guards win championships?

The most important aspect is that these are two YOUNG players who are learning and developing. Quinn is recovering from a knee injury and improving physically. Having the two available to practice against each other is making them both better. Their skill sets are different, which can be a good thing, as Coach K can deploy them to best attack an opponent.

All that said, Quinn will be our starter by tournament time. The ability to break down defenses is incredibly valuable. Even if Quinn were just a little better at penetration, he would deserve to start. He is significantly better. When you have shooters like Seth, Andre and Ryan, and a team that spaces so well, penetration is by far the easiest way to generate offense.

Coach K is not rushing Quinn into the starting line-up, making him earn the job, and acknowledging the aspects that Tyler brings to the game.

Duke has a great set of guards this year, and they are improving.

[BD80]

... The ability to pressure the ball allows the defense to force the opponent to initiate their offense further from the basket than normal, which disrupts their offensive flow. It's a big advantage when you can force the opponent out of their comfort zone.


More than that, ball pressure can neutralize an opponent's post offense. Teams get used to uncontested entry passes, and can struggle if those passes are contested at the source.

[BluDvlsN1]

More than that, ball pressure can neutralize an opponent's post offense. Teams get used to uncontested entry passes, and can struggle if those passes are contested at the source.

Bob's post and yours right on the mark....
As I was walking into the UNLV/NC game, I was chatting with my sons friend and said..
The one chance they have is to pressure Marshall,and constantly be in his face...

That can be said about most teams..
Really good analysis guys..

[OZZIE4DUKE]

What we've got developing here is the two-headed PG monster! :cool:

[devildeac]

What we've got developing here is the two-headed PG monster! :cool:

Kinda like the two-headed Plumlee. Or the three-headed Boozer replacement;).

[Scorp4me]

All that said, Quinn will be our starter by tournament time.

I love having two point guards that bring such different games to the floor. Leads me to hope if we run into a situation where one isn't working the other might. I suppose I'd rather have that one Jason Williams or JJ Reddick, cause let's face it you can only put 5 on the floor at a time. But it's nice when both are so talented.

As for completely and total assuredness that Quinn will eventually be our starter...count me as one who likes the rotation as is, even if Quinn plays more.

[jimsumner]

I love having two point guards that bring such different games to the floor. Leads me to hope if we run into a situation where one isn't working the other might. I suppose I'd rather have that one Jason Williams or JJ Reddick, cause let's face it you can only put 5 on the floor at a time. But it's nice when both are so talented.

As for completely and total assuredness that Quinn will eventually be our starter...count me as one who likes the rotation as is, even if Quinn plays more.

Redick. One d. Please.

[Marcus]

Man... I've been telling people all along that we were better with Quinn in the game! I Like Tyler a whole lot, he's got a great work ethic so I hear.. but You have to play whose dishing the ball better baby... he's had 19 straight assists without a blessid turnover and he's got 29 assists versus only 6 turnovers for the season... My god thats nearly more than Austin Rivers for the season. HAHA.

[BluDvlsN1]

This could be an interesting time to resurrect this topic!
Having read some posts on other threads, there seems to be a wide range of thoughts regarding who should be the primary ball handler!

The range is QC at point, to QC/TT shared, back to AR on ball,im sure there is more!

Personally, I think it's maybe premature because of this loss to overreact,
This team is so young in those key spots, it's going to take some bumps and brusies, with some seasoning to have it settle in!

My mindset is that I still would like to see AR off ball( he is still adjusting) but certainly with the offense going through him and the post players!

My bigger concern was the lack of physicality and intensity as a unit in this game, We were not prepared to play!
Which brings me to MP1, Even in a loss, and I stated this on another thread, we need him to step up ala Zoubek only earler in the season...he is doing that,
His determination and confidence are just what we needed from him, though he was lite on the boards,
We need his prescence..he asserted himself in fine fashion!

Thoughts?

[jv001]

What I like with Quinn is that the ball moves around more and we usually get a good shot. With Seth and Austin, there is a lot of dribbling going on and it looks like they're mainly looking for their shot and not what the defense gives them. GoDuke!

[Kedsy]

What I like with Quinn is that the ball moves around more and we usually get a good shot. With Seth and Austin, there is a lot of dribbling going on and it looks like they're mainly looking for their shot and not what the defense gives them. GoDuke!

Except last night that was not the case for Quinn. I don't know if the zone confused him or it was the height/length of the person defending him, but he dribbled more than usual and seemed to have trouble finding someone to pass to. A couple times he was caught with the ball as the shot clock wound down and had to throw up a prayer (although one of those prayers went in). Hopefully, it's all part of the freshman learning curve and he'll continue to improve.

[hustleplays]

Except last night that was not the case for Quinn. I don't know if the zone confused him or it was the height/length of the person defending him, but he dribbled more than usual and seemed to have trouble finding someone to pass to. A couple times he was caught with the ball as the shot clock wound down and had to throw up a prayer (although one of those prayers went in). Hopefully, it's all part of the freshman learning curve and he'll continue to improve.

As one who has been advocating for Quinn, because, rightly or wrongly, I see exceptional PG talent, I also was disappointed in Quinn's play against Temple. And I agree with and appreciate Kedsy's eyeball assessment, versus stats.
:-) [I like stats too, and appreciate Kedsy's quant perspectives.] From a stat point of view, Quinn's play wasn't too bad. He played just twelve minutes, had 5 points [on 2 of 6 shooting], with 2 assists, 1 turnover and a rebound. He made a great driving J to save one possession. But, yes, he looked out of rhythm, not in flow. I do wish he had been given more minutes to -- possibly -- work it out. It wasn't a conference game and we will need Quinn in order to be our best.

I don't think that the size of Temple's guards was the main problem. Our entire offense didn't seem to flow. One time I saw our PG [honestly can't remember whether it was TT or Quinn] and all four of our other players were just standing along the base line and they didn't move! Often there would be just stoppage, like a jerky old film. Other times, we didn't quickly come to the ball to help out the guy who had stopped his dribble.

GT will be interesting to see how our PGs do.

[jv001]

Except last night that was not the case for Quinn. I don't know if the zone confused him or it was the height/length of the person defending him, but he dribbled more than usual and seemed to have trouble finding someone to pass to. A couple times he was caught with the ball as the shot clock wound down and had to throw up a prayer (although one of those prayers went in). Hopefully, it's all part of the freshman learning curve and he'll continue to improve.

Kedsy, you are correct that Quinn did look out of sync against Temple. Like you say, I don't know if it was the Temple zone, their height/length or the physical play. Matter of fact all our guards were out of sync. I look for a big turnaround from the guards tomorrow. GoDuke!

[devilsadvocate85]

Kedsy, you are correct that Quinn did look out of sync against Temple. Like you say, I don't know if it was the Temple zone, their height/length or the physical play. Matter of fact all our guards were out of sync. I look for a big turnaround from the guards tomorrow. GoDuke!

Maybe I am not recalling correctly, but I don't think Temple played zone more than 8-10 possessions the entire game. Most of our guard troubles occurred with lazy passes, ill-advised attempts to dribble in traffic, through double teams, etc. It kind of felt to me like we weren't strong or aggressive enough on offense to execute what we wanted against a pretty athletic and big backcourt.

[JBDuke]

If you haven't read it yet, I'll direct you to Al Featherston's latest for the DBR Main Page (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=43234), which has much to say on this subject.