PDA

View Full Version : Forde on Duke



itsmoney13
03-04-2007, 10:18 PM
Forde takes some low blows in this piece, the start of what I'm sure will be many low blows in the next few days. He does come out and say it wasn't intentional but still goes after K and Duke pretty hard.

Oh well, what can you do, if the ACC turns the suspension around Swofford will most definately get a call from Dean and thousands of other people complaining that Duke gets preferential treatment.

Did Hansbrough think they would just bow down to him and give him 2 more points? Maybe he was trying to make up for the 2 foul shots he missed a bit earlier, he needed to get those 2 back, what a classy program they run over in there. Here's to letting some frustration out on NCST on Thursday.

GTHC


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=2787890&sportCat=ncb

dukie8
03-04-2007, 10:29 PM
i don't think forde has to worry about being invited over to dinner by k. in his defense, a lot what he says is true -- that we don't have anyone who can score consistently, that this is the worst duke team since the mid 1990s and that we have a lot of fans who have a holier-than-thou attitude.

jipops
03-04-2007, 10:32 PM
Forde is another one in the long line of "sportswriters" that loves to take K's comments to a different context. Anyone who actually caught and listened to the post-game comments heard K pointing blame equally to himself if there was even to be any blame for this unfortunate incident occurring. Sure he brought up players being in the game when maybe they shouldn't be, but he included his players in that stmt as well. How could you not question it, and therefore what would be wrong with K saying that.

Fact is, the media is only going to spin this in one direction to make it a better story so there is no way you'll get an accurate account of his comments.

hurleyfor3
03-04-2007, 10:33 PM
ie have a lot of fans who have a holier-than-thou attitude.

I'll be damned if I change my stripes because some espn hack doesn't like it.

HK Dukie
03-04-2007, 10:33 PM
His email address is ESPN4D@aol.com

Please let him know what a great unbiased job he did of reporting.

Selected Quotes:

On this blood-soaked afternoon, the moral high ground was claimed by the Tar Heels

And then, rather shamefully, Kryzyzewski fired a subtle but unmistakable shot right back at Roy Williams.

There was only so much falling upon the sword Coach K could tolerate, right there in the Dean Dome after getting his head handed to him. Taking the high road is always easier when you're beating Carolina on a regular basis, which Duke isn't doing anymore.

Of course, talking about that junk at least changed the subject from the junk that Duke has become, at least in comparison to its normal self.This is clearly the worst Blue Devils team since Krzyzewski's dark period in the mid-90s when back trouble chased him off the sideline for part of the 1994-95 season.

With the Blue Devils obviously inferior to the Heels, their only chance to win this game and derail Carolina's ACC title hopes was to junk the game up and win on effort.

So Duke wakes up Monday with a fresh black eye and a fourth loss to Carolina in the past five meetings. For the image-obsessed Blue Devils, it gets no worse than being bad and being dirty.

dukelifer
03-04-2007, 10:34 PM
Forde makes it sound like Duke's game plan was to play physical with UNC and knock them all over the court because they do not have the talent to stay with UNC. GH's play at the end was example A. Of course there are no other rough fouls to point to - just the one to prove the point. Unbelievable. Oh Well- lets see how both teams respond.

Bob Green
03-04-2007, 10:52 PM
Earlier in the game DeMarcus Nelson (my favorite Blue Devil even if he is struggling lately) hit TH with a forearm to the chest. It wasn't a smart play.

There were several times when Duke players were muscled by Carolina players but i can't give a specific example.

Overall, within reason, I like it when the refs allow the players to be physical. I'm not talking about NBA physical and do not misinterpret my comment as condoning the foul committed by GH. However, those of us who were watching Duke and the ACC in the 70s and early 80s remember when the ACC was considered a "touch league" and the ACC was routinely beat in the tournament by physical teams. A specific example I remember is a highly ranked 70s UNC team (with Kupchek) that was beat up by Alabama (not 100% sure?) in a very physical inside game. Physical play is necessary to win in March/April.

Hopefully, we get another shot at Carolina this year.

Bob Green
Yokosuka, Japan

A-Tex Devil
03-04-2007, 11:12 PM
F**k Forde. I like his columns usually, but he took Hendu's remarks and turned them against him.

I don't usually care about gamesmanship, but if TH wants to go up in the midst of 3 Devils at that point in the game, he's gonna get fouled, and he did. It sucks that he bled, but no one on our side was looking for anything but preventing him from scoring. Forde is usually better than that and he's probably just looking for hits writing on a Sunday night. Hope he's reading around and realizing how ridiculous he's bieng about Hendu.

Lord Ash
03-04-2007, 11:13 PM
Hm, you know... to be honest, I didn't think Forde was so bad. I did think Coach K took a bit of a shot at Roy... deserved or not, it was there... but I certainly don't think it was some SHAKE THE WORLD shot that people seem to think it is. He said it was clear Gerald didn't do it on purpose. He explained the play pretty much as I saw it. Sure, it was over the top, but that is what sports writers are.

Just my two cents.

duke98
03-04-2007, 11:13 PM
I never do this, but I wrote the following letter to Pat Forde immediately upon reading his column:

Mr. Forde,

As someone who generally enjoys your columns on ESPN.com, I was disappointed by your hastily dashed-off roundup of the altercation at the end of today's Duke-UNC game.

You criticize Gerald Henderson for a hard foul (one which you admit was unintentional); you label Coach K "catty" for trying to point out, without saying the words, that Roy Williams was clearly running up the score at the end of a game that had already been decided. How, exactly, do explain your praise of Tyler "Psycho T" Hansborough's willingness to "go after" Henderson (or, as you say yourself, anyone else in a Duke uniform)? I can't quite figure out your values system, if all-out play and attempted tact are denigrated, and a blind desire for revenge receives your highest praise.

This column is nothing more than a cheap attempt to capitalize off an incident that, were it not for Hansborough's bloody nose (I hear it's not broken, by the way; nice of you to care) would have been a non-incident. Hard fouls were committed by both teams (often resulting in no-calls from the same refs who were so hasty to issue the suspension) throughout the whole game. But blood just adds that extra imagery and column fodder, doesn't it? If taking advantage of that was your goal, well then, I guess I should be congratulating you instead.

Sincerely,
Jessalynn Strauss
Duke '98
UNC '04

WiJoe
03-04-2007, 11:15 PM
don't you guys object to they way he spells Dukies (you know, the duke detractor way). This honks mee off to no end.

mehmattski
03-04-2007, 11:25 PM
I hope that Forde is just trying to be inflammatory, because otherwise he's just a terrible journalist:

"[Henderson] was ejected, and by NCAA rule will miss the Blue Devils' first (and possibly only) game in the ACC tournament Thursday against North Carolina State"

Really, Pat? Duke takes on an NCSU team that the Blue Devils beat by 23 in Raleigh. Then they would potentially play UVA, a team that Duke took to overtime before losing by two-- again, on the road. But I guess i shouldn't be assuming that people with the resources of ESPN on their side could take the time to look up little things like that before firing off junk like Forde did.

Just remember, the last time an "incident" like this occurred in the regular season finale- Duke rode the Andre Buckner's fire all the way to the tourney title. Let's go Duke!

tommy
03-04-2007, 11:28 PM
I wrote the following to Forde:

second time in about a month or so i've written an email to you -- you are one of the most irresponsible writers i've ever read. i can't believe ESPN.com can't find anybody to offer more intelligent commentary than you.

it was obvious that henderson's foul on hansbrough was not intentional. you even say so yourself in the middle of your article. so why do you then state that duke is "dirty?" if it's not intentional, then by definition it isn't dirty, right? if you want to kick duke while they are, for them, down, fine. but don't impugn the integrity of a kid, universally described as a nice, mild-mannered, classy kid, just to try to be sensationalist.

and as far as duke being, in your words, "bad," i think plenty of programs would take 22 regular season wins, playing the #3 toughest schedule in the country, including the #1 toughest schedule in the ACC, as their "off" year. jesus, what kind of standards to you hold these guys to? how is that a bad year? compared to winning a national championship or a final 4, ok, they're probably not going to do that this year. neither are an awful lot of teams -- like almost all of them. when UNC has a bad year, they go under .500 and miss the tournament. when UConn has a bad year, like this one, they miss the tournament. Duke's season, while obviously a rebuilding one with a very young team, has not measured up to recent teams. But to call it a "bad" team is absurd.

Susan
03-04-2007, 11:29 PM
don't you guys object to they way he spells Dukies (you know, the duke detractor way). This honks mee off to no end.

Uh, yeah. That's pretty much what I wrote to him before anyone posted links to this article tonight. I've NEVER written a response to any of the authors of the many "Let me tell you how much I hate Duke" articles that have been posted to this BBS before, but Forde's use of "Goody goody d...ies" really annoyed me this time. (Gee, I wonder why my blood was boiling already?) I wrote him a quick response telling him he might as well have called UNC our favorite nickname as well, and that his credibility as a journalist just MIGHT be greater if he managed to use the proper nicknames for schools in his articles. Since he hails from the land of the Kentucky Wildcats, where so many seem to despise all things Duke, it may be too hard for him to even try to be objective...

zingit
03-04-2007, 11:34 PM
I hope that Forde is just trying to be inflammatory, because otherwise he's just a terrible journalist:

"[Henderson] was ejected, and by NCAA rule will miss the Blue Devils' first (and possibly only) game in the ACC tournament Thursday against North Carolina State"

Really, Pat? Duke takes on an NCSU team that the Blue Devils beat by 23 in Raleigh. Then they would potentially play UVA, a team that Duke took to overtime before losing by two-- again, on the road. But I guess i shouldn't be assuming that people with the resources of ESPN on their side could take the time to look up little things like that before firing off junk like Forde did.


Hold on, now. It is not inconceivable that we could lose to State. Remember that we played them before when Engin Atsur was out, and now he's in--and State is simply a different team with Atsur running the point. And also remember that State beat UNC once and trailed them only by one at halftime in the second game before Sidney Lowe had to go to the hospital. They are not a bad team, and I for one think that their season might have been better had they had Atsur the whole time.

And moreover, this has been such a crazy year for the ACC (and really, around the rest of the country too) that I truly believe that any ACC team can beat any other team in the league on any given night.

So while I think we can, should, and WILL win on Thursday, I am not counting my chickens before they hatch, and I don't think that Forde was wrong to point out that we could potentially lose on Thursday. I sure hope that Coach K and the team don't have the same attitude you have and realize that this game is not a gimme. We have to bring it on every possession in every game from here on out.

WiJoe
03-04-2007, 11:41 PM
this forde nob used to work at the louisville courier-journal. My educated guess is that he still lives there. All the crap that goes on in that state with Louisville and Kentucky, and he has the nerve to pick on Duke. Really, talk about two bandit schools. And save your breath kentucky fans, you'll need it to blow up your girlfriends.

zingit
03-04-2007, 11:50 PM
don't you guys object to they way he spells Dukies (you know, the duke detractor way). This honks mee off to no end.

OK, I must be blind, because I reread the article twice and I still can't find his use of this term. Is it possible that ESPN edited it after they put it up? Or maye I am just overlooking it. Could you please find a quote of it? Thanks.

Susan
03-05-2007, 12:01 AM
Hee hee--it WAS edited! WOW!

"Goody Goody Dukies" in para 6 was spelled differently initially.

shangtr0n
03-05-2007, 12:40 AM
forde's been hating on duke for years, this column is nothing new.

he does it in his own ostensibly subtle, but pathetically transparent, way. but there's always a snideness to anything he writes about duke. a snipe at the fans here, a swat at coach K there, followed usually by some sort of wholesale accusation that they aren't as good as people think they are.

i don't know where he gets it (i had always assumed he had a soft spot for UNC, as he treats them with kid gloves in his columns), but i don't even really care much to inquire. any pretense of objectivity he brought to ESPN has long since dissipated in my eyes, and when i read his columns, it's more out of a quest for laughs than it is out of any expectation to encounter "journalism."

Sir Stealth
03-05-2007, 12:57 AM
While there were definitely some cheapshots in this column and past Forde columns that riled me up, I don't think that he is a "Duke hater" in the mold of some others in the media and (seemingly) millions of fans. From reading his columns on both college football and basketball, it seems like he tries to capture the intensity of college sports while poking fun at the way that many fans follow their teams.

He has previously ridiculed the way in which opposing fanbases will always claim that the other lacks "class." You have to admit that he has a point. No matter what rivalry or sport, fans will always be pointing at the other side and claiming superior class. Now, I actually do believe that Duke's program and fans do have greater class than fans of rival programs (e.g., I am certain that Duke would have kicked the ball back out to a guard at the end of this game so time couldd run down). However, after taking a step back, it is sort of absurd that two fanbases can look at something in completely opposite ways while both claiming objectivity. In this case, the vast majority of Duke fans believe that UNC was more to blame than Henderson than this, while UNC backers and other Duke haters act like G might as well have pulled out brass knuckles and clocked TH in the nuts.

Basically, I think that he's trying to show just how passionate the Duke-UNC rivalry is while focusing on the ways that the two fanbases react. Because Duke-UNC is a rivalry unmatched in intensity, its fans are going to react like intense, partisan college basketball fans to the highest degree. I hate his cheapshots, but he'll do it to any program, and I am guilty of ripping on and arguing with every UNC fan I know about across the country tonight over this game. Unfortunately, sending him angry e-mails is only going to fuel the fire. He'll pick out the most rashly written, unreasonable, profane one and post it in his next article to make fun of Duke fans who think their program and fanbase are the "classiest." But that's just the way it goes.

ChiDevil
03-05-2007, 01:19 AM
I think it is very flattering.

I take heat for Duke's "bad" year every day at work (i.e., when a partner suggested I take a depo for him in NYC because it would be during the NIT and I could catch a Duke game). I had to remind him that Duke was still ranked in the top 25 . . . you just never hear that part of the story!

I like this team a lot. They play with heart. They often don't play with as much skill as we're used to seeing, but that will come. And, as for GH's run-in with TH . . . I think it was totally unintentional and unfortunate, but a good thing for this young team to show they're not afraid to play tough.

GO DUKE!!!!

zingit
03-05-2007, 01:27 AM
I haven't read that many of Forde's columns so I don't really know what his history is, but I do know that I loved his long article about J.J. Redick last year. It was fair and even complimentary, if I remember correctly.

devildownunder
03-05-2007, 06:36 AM
i don't think forde has to worry about being invited over to dinner by k. in his defense, a lot what he says is true -- that we don't have anyone who can score consistently, that this is the worst duke team since the mid 1990s and that we have a lot of fans who have a holier-than-thou attitude.

His criticisms of the team for its weaknesses don't bother me; however, he is implying, and not subtly, that K was playing thugball today to try to beat a superior opponent. That's a bunch of garbage and I've already emailed him about it.

devildownunder
03-05-2007, 06:40 AM
Forde is another one in the long line of "sportswriters" that loves to take K's comments to a different context. Anyone who actually caught and listened to the post-game comments heard K pointing blame equally to himself if there was even to be any blame for this unfortunate incident occurring. Sure he brought up players being in the game when maybe they shouldn't be, but he included his players in that stmt as well. How could you not question it, and therefore what would be wrong with K saying that.

Fact is, the media is only going to spin this in one direction to make it a better story so there is no way you'll get an accurate account of his comments.



I don't buy forde's implications that K played thugball. I've already sent him an angry email about them. The article was fair, though, in the sense of how he characterized K's words -- IMO, of course.

HS Dukie
03-05-2007, 07:36 AM
Based on the post-game quotes, Coach K did not single out UNC for keeping their starters in with a 12 point lead and 17 seconds left:
Krzyzewski also says it’s “unfortunate those players were in the game.” He adds, “We probably both should have had our walk-ons in.”
It seems the media are taking his statement out of context, to the extent of omitting the second sentence about the walk-ons. They appear to have even set up Roy in his press conference by misrepresenting what K said.

It was a hard foul, but not intentional IMO. I sure hope G doesn't have plans to visit Chapel Hill any time soon, based on the insanity on the IC boards today.

feldspar
03-05-2007, 07:45 AM
Really, Pat? Duke takes on an NCSU team that the Blue Devils beat by 23 in Raleigh. Then they would potentially play UVA, a team that Duke took to overtime before losing by two-- again, on the road. But I guess i shouldn't be assuming that people with the resources of ESPN on their side could take the time to look up little things like that before firing off junk like Forde did.

Um, we're not playing nearly as well right now as we were when we beat State in Raleigh. Plus, we don't have our best offensive player.

Just thought I'd point that out.

SMO
03-05-2007, 07:54 AM
You continue to say the most bizarre things. By what metric is GH Duke's best offensive player?? Sure, Duke could lose to State but not because GH is the best offensive player on the team.


Um, we're not playing nearly as well right now as we were when we beat State in Raleigh. Plus, we don't have our best offensive player.

Just thought I'd point that out.

feldspar
03-05-2007, 08:00 AM
You continue to say the most bizarre things. By what metric is GH Duke's best offensive player?? Sure, Duke could lose to State but not because GH is the best offensive player on the team.

As has been said before by several posters, GH is really the only one on this team right now capable of creating his own shots and creating offense off the dribble. Greg is probably our best scorer, but he is dependent on the offense, which hasn't been playing it's best over the last few games.

I would venture to guess that the reason my statements seem bizarre to you is only because you disagree with them.

KyDevilinIL
03-05-2007, 08:52 AM
I've never had a problem with Forde. He's despised by UK fans, for the most part, because in his long tenure at the Courier-Journal in Louisville he simply called things like he saw them. I never got the impression he said things just to get a rise out of fans -- which, when it comes to a columnist, is about all you can ask for.

He's been even-handed with Duke for a long time, in my observation. He did, several years ago, write a bit of a hit piece on K for the C-J, anchored largely on statements Chris Burgess's father made after Burgess transferred. That's the only time I recall him blatantly feeding the anti-Duke hunger of the UK bottomfeeders.

As for his current piece, I don't have an issue with most of it. We don't like hearing some of that, but a lot of it is -- if not verifiable fact -- then at least open for debate.

Classof06
03-05-2007, 08:55 AM
The only question I have is who the hell is Pat Forde, anyway? They should have had someone like Andy Katz (most senior CBB writer) or even better Jay Bilas (someone who knows the rivalry) comment on the incident. Instead, they pick Forde, who's bashed Duke all year to begin with. Not impressed. . .

oso diablo
03-05-2007, 08:58 AM
there's a thread on Forde just below yours. why start a new one?

Classof06
03-05-2007, 09:00 AM
Is there? My fault, I didn't see it...

SMO
03-05-2007, 09:04 AM
Actually, here's why you seem a little off:

PLAYER PPG
DeMarcus Nelson 14.2
Josh McRoberts 12.6
Jon Scheyer 12.3
Greg Paulus 11.2
Gerald Henderson 6.8

I think GH is a great guy with huge potential but one would think a team's best offensive player would not be 5th in scoring.



As has been said before by several posters, GH is really the only one on this team right now capable of creating his own shots and creating offense off the dribble. Greg is probably our best scorer, but he is dependent on the offense, which hasn't been playing it's best over the last few games.

I would venture to guess that the reason my statements seem bizarre to you is only because you disagree with them.

feldspar
03-05-2007, 09:05 AM
Actually, here's why you seem a little off:

PLAYER PPG
DeMarcus Nelson 14.2
Josh McRoberts 12.6
Jon Scheyer 12.3
Greg Paulus 11.2
Gerald Henderson 6.8

I think GH is a great guy with huge potential but one would think a team's best offensive player would not be 5th in scoring.

One would also think that with a team as...um...let's say erratic...as Duke is on offense, it's certainly possible, if not probable that during the course of a season, the "best" offensive player might happen to change.

Also, you rely way too much on stats to prove your argument. Especially stats relating to ppg.

Duvall
03-05-2007, 09:38 AM
Um, we're not playing nearly as well right now as we were when we beat State in Raleigh. Plus, we don't have our best offensive player.

Just thought I'd point that out.

Really? You think so? I think it's much more likely that Duke is playing better teams than they were when they beat State in Raleigh.

I think the winning and losing streaks are a bit misleading, and that Duke's aggregate level of play has been fairly constant throughout the season.