Maryland geography for $2,000

[Johnboy]

This quote from the most recent ACC roundup was striking to me:

This always seemed like a goofy name, not least of all because it’s actually closer to the Chesapeake Bay than it is to the Atlantic. However, Maryland of course has three shores. We’ve never had any conception of where it actually is until we looked it up. How about Maryland-Middle Shore? Makes more sense.

Maryland-Middle Shore is the goofy suggestion, but it's an honest mistake grown out of ignorance of local parlance. Allow me to attempt a correction. In Maryland (at least, in the most populated Eastern portion of Maryland), the Chesapeake Bay is the dominant geographical feature. In local terms, the Bay has a Western Shore (that's where Annapolis is located, for example) and an Eastern Shore. Accordingly, the term "Eastern Shore" refers to the Eastern Shore of the Chesapeake Bay. Residents of those portions of Maryland and Virginia that surround the Bay all refer to the Eastern Shore in this way. It has nothing to do with the geography of the entire state, but of the Chesapeake Bay. The suggestion of "Middle Shore" is, well, nonsense (not "more sense") to people familiar with Maryland, because the Bay only has two shores.

It takes some chutzpah to suggest to people who live in a place that their own place names are "goofy". If you want "goofy" place names, consider this interesting North Carolina phenomenon: the City of Beaufort is the County seat of Carteret County; the City of Washington is the County seat of Beaufort County; the City of Plymouth is the County seat of Washington County; the City of Lenoir is the County Seat of Caldwell County and the City of Kinston is the County seat of Lenoir County. So when you say "Lenoir" you might mean the County down east or you might mean the City over 250 miles away in the mountains. I won't say this is goofy, but it can be confusing. Where is Beaufort Regional Health System located? Washington, of course!

[DU82]

When I saw the title of this thread, in deference to Gary, I figured the correct response would be: What is Alaska.

[OldPhiKap]

When I saw the title of this thread, in deference to Gary, I figured the correct response would be: What is Alaska.

I thought it was, "Where's the riot?"

[Wander]

If you want "goofy" place names, consider this interesting North Carolina phenomenon: the City of Beaufort is the County seat of Carteret County; the City of Washington is the County seat of Beaufort County; the City of Plymouth is the County seat of Washington County; the City of Lenoir is the County Seat of Caldwell County and the City of Kinston is the County seat of Lenoir County. So when you say "Lenoir" you might mean the County down east or you might mean the City over 250 miles away in the mountains. I won't say this is goofy, but it can be confusing. Where is Beaufort Regional Health System located? Washington, of course!

I think I went my entire freshman year at Duke thinking that Wake Forest University was in the town of Wake Forest, 30ish miles east of Durham.

[hurleyfor3]

It takes some chutzpah to suggest to people who live in a place that their own place names are "goofy". If you want "goofy" place names, consider this interesting North Carolina phenomenon: the City of Beaufort is the County seat of Carteret County; the City of Washington is the County seat of Beaufort County; the City of Plymouth is the County seat of Washington County; the City of Lenoir is the County Seat of Caldwell County and the City of Kinston is the County seat of Lenoir County. So when you say "Lenoir" you might mean the County down east or you might mean the City over 250 miles away in the mountains. I won't say this is goofy, but it can be confusing. Where is Beaufort Regional Health System located? Washington, of course!

Oh, you can do this with a lot more counties in NC.

Graham isn't in Graham County. Henderson isn't in Henderson County. Cherokee isn't in Cherokee County. Franklin isn't in Franklin County. Rockingham isn't in Rockingham County. Davidson isn't in Davidson County. Columbus isn't in Columbus County. Asheville isn't in Ashe County, Mooresville isn't in Moore County and neither Greensboro nor Greenville are in Greene County (and at least Asheville/Ashe and Greensboro/Greenville/Greene have the same namesake). I know of no vampires that live in Transylvania County, nor any vampire movies set there.

Also, Southampton County, Virginia borders Northampton County, NC. But Southampton is the one further north.

That said, I agree with your original complaint.

[Newton_14]

I think I went my entire freshman year at Duke thinking that Wake Forest University was in the town of Wake Forest, 30ish miles east of Durham.

Well, originally it was, so you were just a few years late in being correct.:)

[sagegrouse]

In Maryland, DC, Virginia and Delaware, the Eastern Shore means the eastern shore of the Chesapeake Bay and the lands between it and the Atlantic. It's the Delmarva Peninsula, an invented word that is also descriptive. The Eastern Shore of Maryland and Virginia is a different place entirely from the rest of the two states -- flat lands with marshes on both sides and dominated by waterman, wildlife, agriculture and beach resorts.

Is there a better name name? Maybe. How about East Chesapeake? Bit it isn;t going to catch on. Eastern Shore may not be clear to DBR, but I have never heard anyone in the Mid-Atlantic States raise a question. And, moreover, some of the other good names have already been taken -- Tidewater in Virginia and the Lowcountry in South Carolina for littorals (oooohhh!!) with similar features.

sagegrouse

[Reilly]

Believe there was a "Murder She Wrote" where the criminal was caught b/c he didn't know "Down East" referred to Maine ... that crafty Angela Landsbury ...

Delmarva Shorebirds ... one of the better minor league team names, in my opinion ...

[OldPhiKap]

Believe there was a "Murder She Wrote" where the criminal was caught b/c he didn't know "Down East" referred to Maine ... that crafty Angela Landsbury ...

Delmarva Shorebirds ... one of the better minor league team names, in my opinion ...

Are they still low-A ball?

[Reilly]

Apparently the lowest of low-A ball (last place last year):

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/standings/index.jsp?lid=116

[roywhite]

Always thought the Delmarva Peninsula (http://www.bnblist.com/md/riverhouse/delmarva.gif) would have made sense as a separate state.

Of course, I didn't see much point in having two Dakotas, so what do I know.

[Reilly]

Always thought the Delmarva Peninsula (http://www.bnblist.com/md/riverhouse/delmarva.gif) would have made sense as a separate state.....

Apparently Eastern Shore secession was discussed in 1998 in the Maryland General Assembly:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Shore_of_Maryland

[sagegrouse]

Always thought the Delmarva Peninsula (http://www.bnblist.com/md/riverhouse/delmarva.gif) would have made sense as a separate state.

Of course, I didn't see much point in having two Dakotas, so what do I know.

Well, the Delmarva peninsula has six senators -- two each from Del., Md, and Va. I don't see a movement forming to reducing the number to two. The rationale, if there were one, would be that Delaware thrives on being the state of registry of virtually all large companies, earning fees that allow it to operate without a sales or income tax. Of course, doubling the population (or whatever) may spread those benefits a little thin.

Actually, while a few of our plains states are fairly homogeneous geographically, most states are quite varied within their borders. Western Maryland, for example, is in the Canadian zone for plants and animals.

sagegrouse

[callmecrazy]

Having lived on Maryland’s Eastern Shore and Attending University of Maryland Eastern Shore for my first two years of college this thread certainly caught my eye. The name Middle Shore is ridiculous. The bay bridge is the gateway to the eastern shore. In the south, the bay bridge (the much longer bridge) is the gateway to Virginia’s Eastern Shore. There are certainly interesting names in this region such as Assawoman and Mardela, (similar to Delmarva). I grew up in Pocomoke City located in the very southern tip of the eastern shore. I can tell you it is a place with good people and some good Duke fans! Whatever the name or location of the area IMO it is one of the most beautiful places anywhere. The water still provides a living for many who live a simple life. They are proud of their area and proud to live by the bay.

Sorry this was more of my own thoughts than any real intellectual contribution to the conversation:D. GO DUKE!

[jimsumner]

This is what one game in two weeks does. It reduces us to discussing Maryland's geography.

Steady, lads. It will be over soon.:)

[ricks68]

Are any of you aware that the city of Rolla, Texas is named after one of their treasured citizens that helped to found the town? He came from a city that comprises one of the points of the Research Triangle. Hint: It ain't Derm nor be it Chappaheeyah, y'all.

ricks

[devildeac]

I think I went my entire freshman year at Duke thinking that Wake Forest University was in the town of Wake Forest, 30ish miles east of Durham.


Well, originally it was, so you were just a few years late in being correct.:)

I know this kind of stuff. They don't call me devildeac for naught.

"The history of Wake Forest University divides naturally into three main periods:- (1) from the beginning of the institution in the early 1830's to the early 1860's, when the Civil War forced its temporary closing; (2) from 1865 to the early 1950's, when the movement of the college campus from Wake Forest, North Carolina, to Winston-Salem, North Carolina, was organized and carried out; and (3) from 1956, when the school began operation in Winston-Salem, to the present. The institution has seen difficult times and gone through hard struggles; but in each of the three periods the movement toward greater diversity and excellence of academic life was and continues to be steadily maintained. Now, as throughout its history, the guiding purpose of the University is to be found in the simple motto on the University seal: Pro Humanitate."

From: http://www.wfu.edu/history/HST_WFU/perry.html

[devildeac]

Are any of you aware that the city of Rolla, Texas is named after one of their treasured citizens that helped to found the town? He came from a city that comprises one of the points of the Research Triangle. Hint: It ain't Derm nor be it Chappaheeyah, y'all.

ricks

And, a bit of history about our fair city:

http://www.northcarolinahistory.org/encyclopedia/13/entry

"The city was named “Raleigh” in honor of the sixteenth-century English explorer and nobleman Sir Walter Raleigh."

2217

[Johnboy]

Oh, you can do this with a lot more counties in NC.

Graham isn't in Graham County. Henderson isn't in Henderson County. Cherokee isn't in Cherokee County. Franklin isn't in Franklin County. Rockingham isn't in Rockingham County. Davidson isn't in Davidson County. Columbus isn't in Columbus County. Asheville isn't in Ashe County, Mooresville isn't in Moore County and neither Greensboro nor Greenville are in Greene County (and at least Asheville/Ashe and Greensboro/Greenville/Greene have the same namesake). I know of no vampires that live in Transylvania County, nor any vampire movies set there.

Also, Southampton County, Virginia borders Northampton County, NC. But Southampton is the one further north.

That said, I agree with your original complaint.

Mine was not intended as a complete list, just examples from off the top of my head - you strengthened my argument - thanks!

Incidentally, I don't think I've ever heard "Western Shore" used except in contrast to the Eastern Shore (e.g., Q: "Is Galesville on the Eastern Shore?" A: "No, it's on the Western shore."). Wikipedia agrees with me (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Shore_of_Maryland).

[OldPhiKap]

I don't think I've ever heard "Western Shore" used except in contrast to the Eastern Shore (e.g., Q: "Is Galesville on the Eastern Shore?" A: "No, it's on the Western shore."). Wikipedia agrees with me (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Shore_of_Maryland).

"On we sweep
with threshing oar
Our only goal will be
the western shore."

[snowdenscold]

Mine was not intended as a complete list, just examples from off the top of my head - you strengthened my argument - thanks!

Incidentally, I don't think I've ever heard "Western Shore" used except in contrast to the Eastern Shore (e.g., Q: "Is Galesville on the Eastern Shore?" A: "No, it's on the Western shore."). Wikipedia agrees with me (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Shore_of_Maryland).

Whenever I tell people where Galesville is (which isn't too infrequent, since my dad and his twin brother keep their sailboat there), I usually say "It's on the Bay a little south of Annapolis". Not sure I've used the phrase Western Shore, but I suppose it works.

[Johnboy]

Whenever I tell people where Galesville is (which isn't too infrequent, since my dad and his twin brother keep their sailboat there), I usually say "It's on the Bay a little south of Annapolis". Not sure I've used the phrase Western Shore, but I suppose it works.

My (late) grandfather's place is in Shady Side (it's still in the family), where we went every summer and every Thanksgiving when I was growing up. I still have family in the area, including Galesville and Annapolis. I'm from Virginia, but everyone from the Chesapeake Bay region knows where the Eastern Shore is.

I just couldn't resist responding to the comment calling UM-Eastern Shore a "goofy name" - not if you know where it is!

OldPhiKap - I never realized Page and Plant were referring to the Chesapeake Bay! <grin>

[hughgs]

Well, the Delmarva peninsula has six senators -- two each from Del., Md, and Va. I don't see a movement forming to reducing the number to two. The rationale, if there were one, would be that Delaware thrives on being the state of registry of virtually all large companies, earning fees that allow it to operate without a sales or income tax. Of course, doubling the population (or whatever) may spread those benefits a little thin.

sagegrouse

DE has had income taxes since at least 1979 (when I filed for the first time). As for the lack of sales tax, while individuals don't pay a sales tax it was a wide-spread belief when I was growing up that the businesses paid a sales tax. There were plenty of times we would go into PA, MD, or heaven forbid, NJ to get items because they were cheaper.

As for representation, I think it's hyperbole to argue that the residents of Delmarva are represented by 6 senators. Maybe they are from a strict definition, since they get to vote on them. But, I find it hard to accept the idea that the residents of the Delmarva peninsula see substantial benefits from those 6 senators. From a strictly proportional point of view there are only 9 of 23 MD counties and 2 of 95 VA counties on the peninsula. And maybe you could argue that the Eastern Shore is important enough for the MD senators to make the area a top priority. But, I think you would be hard-pressed to argue that the VA senators make the residents of the Delmarva peninsula a top priority.

[tele]

So after reading this thread, could one say that it just depends on the question? The fellow in this article is from Northern Delaware and is good at jeopardy: http://www.npr.org/2011/11/20/142569472/how-one-man-played-moneyball-with-jeopardy

It really makes me wonder if Ken Jennings, the previous jeopardy record setter, used similar methods but just didn't reveal them.

[snowdenscold]

So after reading this thread, could one say that it just depends on the question? The fellow in this article is from Northern Delaware and is good at jeopardy: http://www.npr.org/2011/11/20/142569472/how-one-man-played-moneyball-with-jeopardy

It really makes me wonder if Ken Jennings, the previous jeopardy record setter, used similar methods but just didn't reveal them.

I know we're getting a little off-topic now, but I watched the game that is in the embedded youtube clip in that link. Incredibly and ballsy.

Here's the direct link for those who are interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRwK8SyVeJE

[sagegrouse]

DE has had income taxes since at least 1979 (when I filed for the first time). As for the lack of sales tax, while individuals don't pay a sales tax it was a wide-spread belief when I was growing up that the businesses paid a sales tax. There were plenty of times we would go into PA, MD, or heaven forbid, NJ to get items because they were cheaper.

As for representation, I think it's hyperbole to argue that the residents of Delmarva are represented by 6 senators. Maybe they are from a strict definition, since they get to vote on them. But, I find it hard to accept the idea that the residents of the Delmarva peninsula see substantial benefits from those 6 senators. From a strictly proportional point of view there are only 9 of 23 MD counties and 2 of 95 VA counties on the peninsula. And maybe you could argue that the Eastern Shore is important enough for the MD senators to make the area a top priority. But, I think you would be hard-pressed to argue that the VA senators make the residents of the Delmarva peninsula a top priority.

Good. I learned something. The marginal tax rate in Delaware is 6.95%, higher than Virgina, Colorado and other states.

My point on the six senators and on the typical diverse lands and people within states is that it is not at all common for like people in the very same region to constitute a state, and there are good reasons why not. WRT the six senators, when you want to build a bridge or two or three over the broad Chesapeake Bay to the Atlantic littoral on the Eastern shore, it "shore" helps to have six interested US Senators.

sage