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jimsumner
12-24-2011, 11:10 AM
Kind of surprising. A sophomore, in the rotation for a nationally-ranked team.

From Virginia press release.

"Virginia men’s head basketball coach Tony Bennett announced on Friday (Dec. 23) that sophomore guard KT Harrell (Montgomery, Ala.) is leaving the Cavaliers’program.

“I was informed by KT and his parents today (Friday, Dec. 23) that he is planning to transfer,” Bennettsaid. “I was disappointed by his decision to leave Virginia. I was hoping hew ould stay, but I appreciate his contributions to our program and wish him the best in the future.”

The 6-4 Harrell has played in all 11 of Virginia’s games this season and started the first five. He is averaging 4.7 points and 1.0 rebound a game, while shooting 31.5 percent(17-54) from the field and 70.0 percent (14-20) from the free-throw line.

“I’m grateful for my experience at Virginia and for my teammates and coaches,” Harrell said. “They were very kind and good to me. I wish them the best.”

As a freshman during the 2010-11 season, Harrell played in all 31 of Virginia’s games and started 15 of them. He averaged 8.0 points and 2.1 rebounds a game. Harrell shot 42.3 percent(91-215) from the field, including 42.1 percent (24-57) from three-point range,and 64.2 percent (43-67) from the free-throw line."

gw67
12-24-2011, 11:26 AM
You never know about non-basketball issues, but Harrell is losing minutes to a freshman, Brogdon, who is a fine player. I suspect that he didn't want to sit behind the returning guards/wings (Evans, Harris and Brogdon) for the next two years although he would likely get plenty of minutes spelling those players.

gw67

jimsumner
12-24-2011, 11:36 AM
You never know about non-basketball issues, but Harrell is losing minutes to a freshman, Brogdon, who is a fine player. I suspect that he didn't want to sit behind the returning guards/wings (Evans, Harris and Brogdon) for the next two years although he would likely get plenty of minutes spelling those players.

gw67

Likely true. Then again, he could have fought for his PT, worked to improve his game, not accepted the status quo.

airowe
12-24-2011, 11:45 AM
With Evan Nolte and Justin Anderson coming in, the wing position for the Cavs was going to get very crowded. An interesting decision on the surface, for sure, but UVA won't miss him too much in the years to come.

jimsumner
12-24-2011, 12:26 PM
With Evan Nolte and Justin Anderson coming in, the wing position for the Cavs was going to get very crowded. An interesting decision on the surface, for sure, but UVA won't miss him too much in the years to come.

Sure. But he would be a junior, trying to hold off freshmen. A built-in advantage, if leveraged properly.

Duke's response to transfers is to wish them well and get on with the next play. I suspect Bennett feels the same way. Why want an unhappy player around?

I had a conversation once with Bill Foster (the Duke one). Like his successor at Duke, Foster didn't like to have overly large rosters of recruited players. In fact, he once had two one-player classes in a three-year period.

The conversation went something like this. "I needed more players to practice then I could play in games. So, at the end of the bench, I could have recruited players not playing, who weren't happy about it and whose unhappiness impacted the rest of the team. Or I could have walk-ons, who were happy to be there and whose happiness impacted the rest of the team."

Foster had lots of walk-ons. Bruce Bell, Rob Hardy,Rick Mainwaring, Larry Linney, Geoff Northrup, probably a few others, I've forgotten.

Foster's lack of depth hurt him when injuries started piling up, e.g. mid-1980 when Dennard and Sudduth were hurt. But it saved him headaches.

A digression for which I hope to be forgiven. But it does show that the problem of allocating 200 player-minutes per game without hurting people's feelings is not a new one.

CDu
12-24-2011, 12:41 PM
Likely true. Then again, he could have fought for his PT, worked to improve his game, not accepted the status quo.

Not everyone wants to fight to earn back their playing time. Adversity isn't always met with a positive response.

jimsumner
12-24-2011, 12:49 PM
Not everyone wants to fight to earn back their playing time. Adversity isn't always met with a positive response.

Absolutely. Mike Chappell and Chris Carrawell were classmates. With the exception of strength, Chappell was Carrawell's superior in every basketball measurable. He was taller, quicker, could jump higher, shoot better, dribble better, pass better.

Carrawell played more as a freshman, 1997. That was the year Domzalski had a knee injury and Greg Newton imploded at mid-season. So, Duke needed help inside. Chappell was 6-8 but skinny. So, the 6-6 Carrawell played inside, out of position.

Brand, Burgess and Battier arrived the next season and CC and Chappell moved outside. Chappell started much of the season at the 3. Carrawell fought as hard as he could to regain his starting spot, making Chappell's life miserable in practice, never taking a play off.

Duke went to Chapel Hill ranked No.1 and got their heads handed to them. Chappell started and was awful. Carrawell came off the bench and was Duke's best player.

K made the switch. Carrawell started and Chappell went into a shell. He didn't fight for his starting spot and his PT diminished. He transferred to Michigan State, where he came off the bench for two seasons.

There's an old boxing saying, "everyone has a plan until they get hit in the face." Carrawell and Chappell had very different responses to being hit in the face.

It should be obvious that my sympathies tend to lie with the guys who stick around and fight it out.

Edouble
12-25-2011, 01:14 AM
Absolutely. Mike Chappell and Chris Carrawell were classmates. With the exception of strength, Chappell was Carrawell's superior in every basketball measurable. He was taller, quicker, could jump higher, shoot better, dribble better, pass better.

I love this story, as I was an undergrad during this time. I just have one problem with the semantics. I would say that Chappell was Carrawell's superior in every "athletic" measure, perhaps... but it was two basketball measures that Chappell was not superior in, playing defense and rebounding, that pushed Chris ahead of him into the starting lineup.

Rebounding and playing defense are both heavily grounded in desire, which is the whole point of the story, pretty much. But they are also measures of basketball ability, hence my issue with semantics. Chappell was certainly the more gifted athlete (Carrawell could not raise his arms above his head all the way when he got to Duke!), but Carrawell was the better basketball player, specifically for what Duke needed at the time.

JasonEvans
12-25-2011, 09:58 AM
Jim's brilliant and wonderful post should be made into a story that is told to every kid moping about his lack of playing time... although I would add one thing to it.


Carrawell started and Chappell went into a shell. He didn't fight for his starting spot and his PT diminished. He transferred to Michigan State, where he... ...continued to be a bench player. Carrawell, despite now having secured his place as a starter and key player, continued to work hard at improving his game. 2 years later, he was not just Duke's best player, but the best player in the entire ACC.

-Jason "great story, Jim" Evans

Huh?
12-25-2011, 12:46 PM
Hoo is Harrell?

gw67
12-25-2011, 01:40 PM
A couple of thoughts:


Working harder may not remedy the situation for a player. The player may have been recruited over as appears to be the case for Harrell or the coach may want you to play a positiion that you don't want to play which appears to be the case for Johnson. Changing schools does not necessarily mean that the youngsters don't want to compete. I believe Baron (who entered with Harrell and Johnson) wanted to play for his dad. There are lots of reasons for changing schools/coaches. I remember a couple of Lefty's first recruits that he was counting on to be his backcourt, Jo Jo Hunter and another whose name I can't remember, transferred and blossomed at their new schools. It also seems that coaches recruit over players more than they did years ago.
Four of the six recruits from Bennett's first recruiting class are gone. This may be an indication that he didn't recruit to match his coaching style. I suspect that he figured Johnson and Regan were his big men starting in 2012. Now he is left with two undersized forwards for next year and neither has shown that they are ACC quality players. I see a four guard lineup for Virginia next year. Not necessarily a good sign for a team that doesn't run much.


gw67

gumbomoop
12-27-2011, 01:19 AM
Bennett still has 7 guys who can compete in most ACC games. He's got 3 bigs [Scott, plus good size and some rebounds from Sene and Mitchell] to split 40 mpg, and 4 perimeter guys [Evans, Zeglinski, Harris, Brogdon] to split 120. As long as those 7 suffer no significant injuries, the Cavs should still be pretty solid this season.

As for the future......


With Evan Nolte and Justin Anderson coming in, the wing position for the Cavs was going to get very crowded.


Now he [Bennett] is left with two undersized forwards for next year and neither has shown that they are ACC quality players. I see a four guard lineup for Virginia next year.

...... it seems likely that the Cavs will struggle some in 2012-'13. They'll surely have to depend on 3 frosh [promising center Mike Tobey, to go along with Nolte and Anderson] in their top 7 guys. Maybe not exactly a 4-guard lineup, but certainly heavy on the 6'4"-6'7" wings. I'd guess Justin Anderson will be pressed into service to play big minutes [pun intended] and defend the 4. He's a strong kid, athletic leaper, fierce player, and probably enthusiastic for such a challenge.

If Bennett can recruit a PG and another big, the Cavs can return to top half of ACC in 2013-'14.

jv001
12-27-2011, 09:59 AM
Jim's brilliant and wonderful post should be made into a story that is told to every kid moping about his lack of playing time... although I would add one thing to it.

...continued to be a bench player. Carrawell, despite now having secured his place as a starter and key player, continued to work hard at improving his game. 2 years later, he was not just Duke's best player, but the best player in the entire ACC.

-Jason "great story, Jim" Evans

I agree with Jim and Jason in this incident. Carrawell was one of the hardest workers to ever play at Duke. It was great to see Chris get the awards handed him later in his career. This made me think of another Duke player that transferred. That would be Bill McCaffrey a guard on Duke's 1990-1991 team. He played 25 mins per game, 11.6pg, shot 83% from the free throw line. That team had Laettner, T. Hill, Hurley, Grant and Brian Davis. All but Davis avged 20+ mins per game with Christian 30mpg. Bill was a good player that looked like he would even be better the next season. Duke returned most of the players the following year without Bill the same group of guys averaged over 30 mins per game. They had Antonio Lang(8mins) and Cherokee Parks(13mins) coming off the bench. I think the reason Bill transferred to Vanderbilt was so he could play pg. He knew with Hurley at Duke, he would not get that opportunity. As good as we were in '92 we may have been better with Bill in the rotation. But who knows, maybe we might not have gotten by Kentucky either. Those closer to the program probably know more about this situation than I do. GoDuke!

JasonEvans
12-28-2011, 01:18 AM
A key difference in the stories cited above is that Billy McCaffrey did not leave Duke because he could not handle the competition and, in fact, he clearly worked on his game and became a much better player after leaving Duke. He was an All-American and SEC Player of the Year at Vandy. No, he never realized his dream of making the NBA as a PG, but (as he correctly surmized), it seems unlikely that he would have been able to do that had he remained at Duke anyway.

I wish he had remained at Duke, but I respect the choices Billy McCaffery made and admired the way he played the game.

-Jason "maybe he coulda taken a redshirt in 1992 so he could have been the PG in 1994... Grant Hill could have used his help" Evans

VAGentleman05
12-28-2011, 12:37 PM
Four of the six recruits from Bennett's first recruiting class are gone. This may be an indication that he didn't recruit to match his coaching style. I suspect that he figured Johnson and Regan were his big men starting in 2012. Now he is left with two undersized forwards for next year and neither has shown that they are ACC quality players. I see a four guard lineup for Virginia next year. Not necessarily a good sign for a team that doesn't run much.
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gw67

I think a big part of Johnson's transfer was Mike Scott's returning for the unexpected 5th year. Take him out of the rotation this season, and Johnson would've been getting a lot more minutes from the start, which was surely what he expected when he signed with UVA and agreed to the redshirt season.

In any case, I'm disappointed that it didn't work out with KT, because he's a good kid with a great basketball upside, but I don't think it will hurt us much this season (if the remaining guys can stay healthy), and I do think there are more talented players who better fit Bennett's system coming in next year.

A bit off topic, but I wish the NCAA would re-examine its mid-year transfer rules. The fact that you can transfer in December and then be eligible to play mid-year the next season seems to encourage these kinds of decisions for guys who might otherwise fight through, compete for minutes, and end up in a better spot at their original school.

jimsumner
12-28-2011, 02:05 PM
My understanding is that Johnson did not "agree" to redshirt last season, but requested it.

Mike Scott and Assane Sene are seniors this season. Johnson could have come back next season as a redshirt sophomore and presumptive starter.

Johnson was the consensus #58 player out of high school. I've never actually had a chance to see him play. But it seems like he either isn't as good as people thought or he just doesn't want to compete at the ACC level.





I think a big part of Johnson's transfer was Mike Scott's returning for the unexpected 5th year. Take him out of the rotation this season, and Johnson would've been getting a lot more minutes from the start, which was surely what he expected when he signed with UVA and agreed to the redshirt season.

In any case, I'm disappointed that it didn't work out with KT, because he's a good kid with a great basketball upside, but I don't think it will hurt us much this season (if the remaining guys can stay healthy), and I do think there are more talented players who better fit Bennett's system coming in next year.

A bit off topic, but I wish the NCAA would re-examine its mid-year transfer rules. The fact that you can transfer in December and then be eligible to play mid-year the next season seems to encourage these kinds of decisions for guys who might otherwise fight through, compete for minutes, and end up in a better spot at their original school.