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View Full Version : Jon Scheyer "exploited" by Coach K



SeattleIrish
12-16-2011, 04:43 PM
http://www.csnchicago.com/preps/news/Was-Jon-Scheyer-exploited?blockID=613482&feedID=629

A csnchicago.com article - not sure if any of you are more connected to the Chicago scene than am I, but this guy has some strong opinions on how Scheyer, and white players in general, is/are treated.

s.i.

moonpie23
12-16-2011, 04:52 PM
hey jon......whaddya think about what this guy said? did coach k "exploit" you?

COYS
12-16-2011, 04:58 PM
http://www.csnchicago.com/preps/news/Was-Jon-Scheyer-exploited?blockID=613482&feedID=629

A csnchicago.com article - not sure if any of you are more connected to the Chicago scene than am I, but this guy has some strong opinions on how Scheyer, and white players in general, is/are treated.

s.i.

I saw this article and almost laughed. Apparently all white players can shoot while all black players are only athletic slashers. Someone needs to tell Mason that he and Andre should switch skin tones. Apparently Jon was moved to the point because, otherwise he couldn't get his shot off against better players. Shockingly Jon was already going to get very close to 2,000 points playing any position on the court. Also, apparently Jon couldn't drive or get to the line, which is funny since he had a higher free throw rate than his "slasher athlete" backcourt mate Nolan smith. Also, apparently Jon was a terrible defender even though he consistently shut down opposing wings, notable the heralded Wayne Ellington who actually fits the stereotype the author and this scout guy attribute to all white players. Apparently Jon couldn't pass, even though he averaged almost 5 apg his senior season playing a ridiculously slow pace. Honestly, Jon was a horrible choice for this article because the only thing he didn't actually do very consistently was shoot well from three. He was very good but streaky. Nevertheless, he did so many other things well he was always effective even when his shot wasn't falling. Oh well. I guess they wanted a provocative title to attract some attention to an otherwise worthless article.

House G
12-16-2011, 05:02 PM
Who is Don Konopacz? I've heard of Krzyzewski.

Bluedog
12-16-2011, 05:08 PM
Who is Don Konopacz? I've heard of Krzyzewski.

Here's the first google hit I get:


Don Konopacz 1975 graduate of Jefferson Middle School in Villa park, IL

hahaha. Obviously, not somebody to take seriously.


[Konopacz] blames the NCAA for installing a very short three-point line "because white players weren't having much impact in the NCAA tournament and the cheating for black athlete was getting out of hand." uhhhh

That's one of the most ridiculous articles I've read in a while.

OZZIE4DUKE
12-16-2011, 05:13 PM
This article was linked in an email I got from Bleacher Report. When I tried to read it, it totally crashed my AOL software/browser. I only use AOL for email, but I wonder what kind of malware that vitriol includes that it's messing with my computer? Not going to click on the link above with my Firefox browser. I am going to (have to) reboot my computer before restarting AOL again.

Rebooting wasn't necessary, but I'll skip trying to read that article.

77devil
12-16-2011, 05:23 PM
This article was linked in an email I got from Bleacher Report. When I tried to read it, it totally crashed my AOL software/browser. I only use AOL for email, but I wonder what kind of malware that vitriol includes that it's messing with my computer? Not going to click on the link above with my Firefox browser. I am going to (have to) reboot my computer before restarting AOL again.

For what it's worth Ozzie, I opened the link in Firefox without incident. But given the nature of the article, you might be better off leaving it unopened.

As you can tell from the OPs, it's just more Duke/Coach K bashing masquerading as journalism.

jimsumner
12-16-2011, 05:24 PM
I especially liked the part where Scheyer was going be the next Jerry West before Krzyzewski messed him up.

Because I thought that Brett Nelson was the next Jerry West.

FWIW, Vasquez was the ACC POY in 2010, not Scheyer. But why bother with pesky little facts when you've such keen insights to impart?

Duvall
12-16-2011, 05:27 PM
It's an interesting time for Chicago-area high school basketball writers to be giving voice to poorly-reasoned criticism of Duke and Mike Krzyzewski.

DUKIE V(A)
12-16-2011, 05:28 PM
Oh to have been exploited by Coach K the way Jon Scheyer was...

HaveFunExpectToWin
12-16-2011, 05:38 PM
Wait, wait... I want to hear more about what some random racist dude has to say. This is important.

SmartDevil
12-16-2011, 05:46 PM
I hope Jon promptly shoots down this nonsense with an emphatic public disavowal.

-jk
12-16-2011, 05:49 PM
This gem (blogs.suntimes.com/lockerroom/2010/03/leonard_better_than_cross.html) showed up early in the 2010 tourney (in the comments):

"White players tend to be rated higher than they really should be. I.e.: Jon Scheyer probably won't even be Jeff Hornacek. But everybody had Scheyer as the next Jerry West. Get my drift."

He's at least consistent.

(that's all I was able to tease out of the Google on a quick search)

-jk

mgtr
12-16-2011, 05:50 PM
Coach K is supposed to develop players for the NBA? No, that is Coach Calimari. Coach K has one primary objective -- to win games and titles. Incidentally, he has more players in the NBA than any other coach. He also develops players into successful persons, regardless of their basketball futures.
This article is nutty George!

Verga3
12-16-2011, 06:47 PM
I hope Jon promptly shoots down this nonsense with an emphatic public disavowal.

If I were Jon, I wouldn't even dignify it.

jimsumner
12-16-2011, 06:51 PM
Scheyer was the consensus #28 recruit in 2006. The idea that anyone was seriously projecting him to be a Jerry West analog is absolute nonsense.

phaedrus
12-16-2011, 07:02 PM
The idea that anyone was seriously projecting him to be a Jerry West analog is absolute nonsense.

Well, maybe Jumbo.

Greg_Newton
12-16-2011, 07:16 PM
I still don't even get the point of his argument. As others have basically said, Scheyer went from a relatively one-dimensional player to the most complete players in the country under Krzyzewski, which you can back up with either statistics or the eye test. What am I missing here?

devildeac
12-16-2011, 07:19 PM
I still don't even get the point of his argument. As others have basically said, Scheyer went from a relatively one-dimensional player to the most complete players in the country under Krzyzewski, which you can back up with either statistics or the eye test. What am I missing here?

Just another iteration of this, I guess:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iVKPUNoeI4

(language alert)

pfrduke
12-16-2011, 07:23 PM
I still don't even get the point of his argument. As others have basically said, Scheyer went from a relatively one-dimensional player to the most complete players in the country under Krzyzewski, which you can back up with either statistics or the eye test. What am I missing here?

This guy obviously wasn't paying attention, given that this is how the article concludes:


They asked Jon Scheyer to do one thing--shoot--and the rest of his game got rusty

I don't think anyone who watched Duke play could conclude that all Jon was asked to do on offense was shoot.

Verga3
12-16-2011, 07:25 PM
I still don't even get the point of his argument. As others have basically said, Scheyer went from a relatively one-dimensional player to the most complete players in the country under Krzyzewski, which you can back up with either statistics or the eye test. What am I missing here?

You are not missing anything. Taylor Bell is obviously missing plenty....hopefully we don't give his crock too much credence.

weezie
12-16-2011, 09:19 PM
Who is Don Konopacz?

I think he's a minor windbag of unknown origins.

cspan37421
12-16-2011, 10:26 PM
I hope my boy gets good enough to be so exploited by Coach K ... and I bet I'm not alone!

As for Scheyer and rust on the non-shooting part of his game ... didn't he make a championship-saving* block on a Butler fast break? Key steal and assist?

*as it turned out

This rebuttal was unnecessary. Why?

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence" - Christopher Eric Hitchens, 1949-2011

[hey, that's also good advice for those who get worked up about what's spewed forth at IC]

biscuit30
12-16-2011, 11:22 PM
This article was linked in an email I got from Bleacher Report. When I tried to read it, it totally crashed my AOL software/browser. I only use AOL for email, but I wonder what kind of malware that vitriol includes that it's messing with my computer? Not going to click on the link above with my Firefox browser. I am going to (have to) reboot my computer before restarting AOL again.

Rebooting wasn't necessary, but I'll skip trying to read that article.

I had the same problem. Nothing to do with AOL. Just kept saying there was a problem. Gave up after the second time and now after reading above comments, realized I was wasting my time.

newBlue23
12-17-2011, 02:18 AM
Players like Scheyer, who wasn't selected in the NBA draft after his senior season, a rarity for an ACC Player of the Year.

On the bright side, congratulations to Scheyer, who somehow managed to win the ACC Player of the Year. And here I was, thinking
that Greivis Vasquez had won that award.

Edouble
12-17-2011, 02:45 AM
I read the article, and I still don't get it. What of Scheyer's did Coach K exploit exactly? His "whiteness"? If the author wants to make his "point" (albeit he doesn't really have one), shouldn't he say that Scheyer was "underdeveloped" or "misused"?

"Exploited"?

Indoor66
12-17-2011, 07:52 AM
I read the article, and I still don't get it. What of Scheyer's did Coach K exploit exactly? His "whiteness"? If the author wants to make his "point" (albeit he doesn't really have one), shouldn't he say that Scheyer was "underdeveloped" or "misused"?

"Exploited"?

I think your questions contain the answers. The author fails to understand the meaning of his words.

Jderf
12-17-2011, 08:33 AM
I think your questions contain the answers. The author fails to understand the meaning of his words.

It think it is actually just an astonishing experiment in semantics. It's an incredibly long string of words, linked together with correct grammar, yet when taken as a whole it has no connection to reality or any meaning whatsoever. Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.

killerleft
12-17-2011, 09:34 AM
I hope Jon promptly shoots down this nonsense with an emphatic public disavowal.

I don't think that is necessary. It would take a real sourpuss not to laugh out loud at that poor coach. The writer, though... you reckon this story will be on his resume? I hope so.

Lord Ash
12-17-2011, 09:44 AM
It's an interesting time for Chicago-area high school basketball writers to be giving voice to poorly-reasoned criticism of Duke and Mike Krzyzewski.

This. Thankfully the Chicago area basketball players we are recruiting are smart enough to ignore this nonsense.

Devilsfan
12-17-2011, 02:30 PM
Liked reading this article. Fiction is usually fun to read. But I think I will stop waisting my time reading the B. Report.

dukelifer
12-17-2011, 02:43 PM
When is Coach K going to get it. His job is not to win but to make sure his kids get to the NBA. Coaches should only be judged by how many millions their kids make in the pros. Scheyer was a victim in all this. All he got out of the deal was a a few ACC championships, a National Championship and a Duke degree. He drank the NCAA koolaid that winning in college and getting a degree are actually valuable. I weep for Scheyer and all those Duke kids whose lives were destroyed by one man who only cared about winning college basketball championships- particularly, when it took forcing a shooting guard play point to do it. Sad.

G man
12-17-2011, 04:02 PM
I didn't know players ranked in the 70's in High School are projected to be NBA legends. I think the Duke staff did a tremendous job of developing his talent into a tremendous player.

Rivals 71

Jarhead
12-17-2011, 04:10 PM
When is Coach K going to get it. His job is not to win but to make sure his kids get to the NBA. Coaches should only be judged by how many millions their kids make in the pros. Scheyer was a victim in all this. All he got out of the deal was a a few ACC championships, a National Championship and a Duke degree. He drank the NCAA koolaid that winning in college and getting a degree are actually valuable. I weep for Scheyer and all those Duke kids whose lives were destroyed by one man who only cared about winning college basketball championships- particularly, when it took forcing a shooting guard play point to do it. Sad.

dukelifer, I will withhold judgment on your post in hopes of some evidence that it is in jest. What you say in your post aside, the folks who browse these DBR forums come from all over the country, or world, but not all are accustomed to the sarcastic styles of some of us. The Duke haters will just eat this up, and that is not fair to the people in our basket ball program who work so hard with/for these young men, not necessarily for the NBA, but for life lessons in general.

77devil
12-17-2011, 04:25 PM
dukelifer, I will withhold judgment on your post in hopes of some evidence that it is in jest. What you say in your post aside, the folks who browse these DBR forums come from all over the country, or world, but not all are accustomed to the sarcastic styles of some of us. The Duke haters will just eat this up, and that is not fair to the people in our basket ball program who work so hard with/for these young men, not necessarily for the NBA, but for life lessons in general.

Having read plenty of thoughtful posts from dukelifer over the years, you can be assured that tongue was firmly in cheek.

Jarhead
12-17-2011, 05:29 PM
Having read plenty of thoughtful posts from dukelifer over the years, you can be assured that tongue was firmly in cheek.

Thank you. I kinda' thought that, but I wasn't sure. I'm still not totally sure. I wonder if we'll see a link to some other neighborhood quoting dukelifer as a means to ring your bell and mine.

moonpie23
12-17-2011, 09:11 PM
the board should have an 'over-the-top-omg-that's-sarcasm-at-it's-finest" font, or color....

Verga3
12-17-2011, 09:19 PM
the board should have an 'over-the-top-omg-that's-sarcasm-at-it's-finest" font, or color....

Nah, too much fun to just guess. This one was pretty obvious to me that dukelifer was joshing, even having never read his/her old posts for a clue...still haven't looked. I'm not concerned at all that the dukelifer post could be misconstrued/misused by haters. Go for it, haters.

mapei
12-17-2011, 10:00 PM
First of all, I find it odd that this guy no one has ever heard of gets treated like a basketball sage worthy of journalistic reporting.

Beyond that, he seems like a bitter guy whose main gripe is the 3-point line and Just. Can. Not. Let. It. Go. Sounds like he needs to get a life, or at least a girlfriend. He chose Jon kind of randomly as a white guy people in Illinois know about. The facts? No need to check, since this guy's opinion was fixed about 20 years ago.

dukelifer
12-17-2011, 11:48 PM
dukelifer, I will withhold judgment on your post in hopes of some evidence that it is in jest. What you say in your post aside, the folks who browse these DBR forums come from all over the country, or world, but not all are accustomed to the sarcastic styles of some of us. The Duke haters will just eat this up, and that is not fair to the people in our basket ball program who work so hard with/for these young men, not necessarily for the NBA, but for life lessons in general.

Written with supreme sarcasm. I thought it was too over the top to be taken too seriously by anyone- but then again you never know.

Dukeface88
12-18-2011, 03:33 AM
Written with supreme sarcasm. I thought it was too over the top to be taken too seriously by anyone- but then again you never know.

Welcome to Poe's Law. For those who don't know, Poe's Law says that it is impossible to create an internet parody that won't be mistaken by someone for sincere belief.

Jderf
12-18-2011, 10:25 AM
Welcome to Poe's Law. For those who don't know, Poe's Law says that it is impossible to create an internet parody that won't be mistaken by someone for sincere belief.

That's why it is important to use sarcasm HTML tags.

Roy Williams is just a regular, honest, down-to-earth, southern boy -- who just happens to be one of the best darn coaches of all time. It amazes me that he has never let it get to his head.

mapei
12-18-2011, 10:26 PM
Actually, it is not sarcasm but irony.

Jderf
12-19-2011, 07:24 AM
Actually, it is not sarcasm but irony.

This is sarcasm, right? ... case in point, I guess.

RelativeWays
12-19-2011, 08:50 AM
This is little more than Illini propoganda. That fanbase is incredibly angry and bitter they lost Scheyer to Duke they will do anything to discredit his career there in hopes no other Illinois HS prospects go there. When someone tells me what Bruce Weber could have done differently with Scheyer, that would have increased his likelihood of getting drafted sure would be interesting. Anyonw who says Scheyer was just a 3 point chucker never watched him play for Duke.

Ranidad
12-19-2011, 09:17 AM
The argument that Coach K stunted Scheyer's NBA potential is moot anyway because of the freak eye injury that occurred post-Duke. While you can point to the draft as an assessment of his NBA potential that is all you will ever have due to the injury.

Adding that to the inaccuracies and ramblings makes it hard to finish reading the article. Another case in point below

"I believe players like Hornacek, Chris Mullin and Mark Price became NBA All-Stars because they played without a short three-point line on the court...."

Mark Price did in fact have a ridiculously short 3 point line his freshman year at GT and made 44% of his 166 attempts from beyond the arc.

HateCarolina
12-19-2011, 12:02 PM
Who is Don Konopacz? I've heard of Krzyzewski.

It's funny b/c I googled this "scout" Don Konopacz and all I could find was him saying the same junk about Scheyer in the comments section of an article written by this same author:

http://blogs.suntimes.com/lockerroom/2010/03/leonard_better_than_cross.html

By Don Konopacz on March 15, 2010 1:44 AM
Leonard's team won 2A. Not 4A, or even 3A. Looks like another 7-foot stiff to me. Sorry T. Bell. I loved reading your columns in the Dailey News and Sun-Times, but I have to disagree with you. White players tend to be rated higher than they really should be. I.e.: Jon Scheyer probably won't even be Jeff Hornacek. But everybody had Scheyer as the next Jerry West. Get my drift. Jeff Hornacek had no publicity in high school and was a walk-on at Iowa State. Scheyer was annointed as superman and went on to "Duuuuuke!" Scheyer still can't take his man off the dribble, create for himself or create for others and he plays with other H.S. All-Americans that make him look as good as he is. Derrick Rose shut him down in the 2006 IHSA state tournment. (Which reminds me, tell Scheyer to give the 2006 Mr. Illinois Basketball Award to Rose, he deserved it by far. While were at it, tell Julian Wright to give his Mr. IL BB Award to Rose also, because he was the best player even as a sophomore.) But Scheyer was overrated, like Brian Sloan, Eric Anderson, Len Berilini, Ryan Hogan, Chuck Verderber, . . . and Leonard Meyers. Oh, I'm sorry, Meyers Leonard. If you want me to get excited about this kid from the "sticks" in Illinois, tell me he is the next Dan Issel or Jack Sikma. Otherwise, my blood pressure remains at 120 over 80. P.S. T. Bell, I loved your articles on Mark Aguirre and Isiah Thomas back in the day. I have your books, their great!

It would seem a little disingenuous to me that T Bell is now using this same idiot's quotes in this article, but as stated by someone else this guy is a wind bag.

hurleyfor3
12-19-2011, 01:27 PM
This is little more than Illini propoganda. That fanbase is incredibly angry and bitter they lost Scheyer to Duke they will do anything to discredit his career there in hopes no other Illinois HS prospects go there. When someone tells me what Bruce Weber could have done differently with Scheyer, that would have increased his likelihood of getting drafted sure would be interesting. Anyonw who says Scheyer was just a 3 point chucker never watched him play for Duke.

I really needed this post, as it had been a whole four or five days since I had come up with a new reason to be happy I no longer lived in Chicago.

UofI fans are really funny. They think one Final Four in 22 years qualifies as being some sort of national powerhouse. They're like the Wake of the B1G, except there are exponentially more of them.

They hate Kansas more than they hate us, though, for losing Bill Self.

jimsumner
12-19-2011, 03:54 PM
The argument that Coach K stunted Scheyer's NBA potential is moot anyway because of the freak eye injury that occurred post-Duke. While you can point to the draft as an assessment of his NBA potential that is all you will ever have due to the injury.

Adding that to the inaccuracies and ramblings makes it hard to finish reading the article. Another case in point below

"I believe players like Hornacek, Chris Mullin and Mark Price became NBA All-Stars because they played without a short three-point line on the court...."

Mark Price did in fact have a ridiculously short 3 point line his freshman year at GT and made 44% of his 166 attempts from beyond the arc.

I always kinda thought that Hornacek, Mullin and Price became NBA All-Stars because they were pretty good basketball players.

Silly me.

luvdahops
12-19-2011, 04:14 PM
I really needed this post, as it had been a whole four or five days since I had come up with a new reason to be happy I no longer lived in Chicago.

UofI fans are really funny. They think one Final Four in 22 years qualifies as being some sort of national powerhouse. They're like the Wake of the B1G, except there are exponentially more of them.

They hate Kansas more than they hate us, though, for losing Bill Self.

I have lived in the Chicagoland area for most of my adult life, and follow high school hoops and recruiting fairly closely. I have NEVER heard of Don Konopacz. I am familiar with Taylor Bell, who used to write about area prep sports frequently - though rarely insightfully - in the Chicago Sun-Times, whose sports page is far less widely read than that of the Tribune (true for the papers as a whole as well). He is definitely an Illini sympathizer (hates Northwestern, too).

I couldn't agree more about Illinois fans/alums. Their attitude about hoops is entirely in keeping with the general inferiority complex that seems to pervade that university - in their view, no one ever gives them the respect they deserve, whether in sports or academics.

luvdahops
12-19-2011, 04:20 PM
I always kinda thought that Hornacek, Mullin and Price became NBA All-Stars because they were pretty good basketball players.

Silly me.

Jim, check me if I am wrong, but wasn't the 3-point line originally an ABA innovation? That league was not exactly known for an "unathletic" brand of ball.

jimsumner
12-19-2011, 05:02 PM
Jim, check me if I am wrong, but wasn't the 3-point line originally an ABA innovation? That league was not exactly known for an "unathletic" brand of ball.

I believe the American Basketball League actually pioneered the 3-point shot. This was a short-lived, early '60s attempt to horn in on the NBA monopoly. Didn't last long. Former Georgia Tech star Roger Kaiser was one of the ABL's great bombers.

The ABA included such unathletic players as Julius Erving, David Thompson, Joe Caldwell, Ron Boone, Billy Cunningham and Connie Hawkins.

I'm not sure I understand the belief that the 3-point shot somehow rescued unathletic white guys from a life of obscurity. Reggie Miller, Dell Curry, Craig Hodges, Glen Rice, Chuck Person, Ray Allen, Dale Ellis, Byron Scott and many other African American shooters had their games and careers enhanced by the 3-point shot. It's difficult to see this innovation as some sort of racist conspiracy.

mapei
12-19-2011, 07:38 PM
When was it introduced in international play? It's been part of international rules as long as I can remeber.