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juise
12-13-2011, 11:53 PM
I wanted to post this blurb about Nolan and Armon Johnson in Blazers training camp (http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/index.ssf/2011/12/nolan_smith_armon_johnson_comp.html)and it doesn't seem to fit with the other current NBA topics (free agents and Shane to Miami), so I thought I'd get this thread started for the season.

Anyway, it seems that Nolan's play, and specifically his basketball IQ, have impressed his teammates... including Ray Felton. I noticed on Nolan's twitter that he's been spending time off the court with Elliott Williams and Armon Johnson. Nolan is the ultimate teammate. I bet that by next summer he will be successfully recruiting free agent the way he drew high school players to Duke.

Oriole Way
12-14-2011, 01:10 AM
I wanted to post this blurb about Nolan and Armon Johnson in Blazers training camp (http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/index.ssf/2011/12/nolan_smith_armon_johnson_comp.html)and it doesn't seem to fit with the other current NBA topics (free agents and Shane to Miami), so I thought I'd get this thread started for the season.

Anyway, it seems that Nolan's play, and specifically his basketball IQ, have impressed his teammates... including Ray Felton. I noticed on Nolan's twitter that he's been spending time off the court with Elliott Williams and Armon Johnson. Nolan is the ultimate teammate. I bet that by next summer he will be successfully recruiting free agent the way he drew high school players to Duke.

Really good to hear. Nolan is consistently beloved by everyone he comes across. Not surprising for any of us here on DBR, but it's cool to see his NBA teammates appreciating him as well (although Lawson and Elliot obviously know Nolan and his great personality from Oak Hill and Duke, respectively).

I really hope Jamal Crawford doesn't sign with Portland - that would ensure more minutes for Nolan, who I'm sure will capitalize on them.

juise
12-14-2011, 11:14 PM
Speaking of Dukie's getting playing time, it looks like Kyrie will get a lot of run this season, with the Cavs using the amnesty clause to ship off Baron Davis (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7354164/cleveland-cavaliers-use-amnesty-clause-waive-baron-davis). That basically leaves Ramon Sessions and Daniel Gibson as the only other PG's on the Cavs' roster.



(although Lawson and Elliot obviously know Nolan and his great personality from Oak Hill and Duke, respectively)

Just a minor correction, the Blazers got Felton from Denver (not Lawson), so the connection is not quite as strong... just rivals. :)

juise
12-15-2011, 12:53 AM
Here's a five-minute video interview with Nolan (http://video-embed.oregonlive.com/services/player/bcpid619299290001?bctid=1328188958001) talking about his summer, being locked out, and his training camp experience.

Oriole Way
12-15-2011, 03:04 PM
Just a minor correction, the Blazers got Felton from Denver (not Lawson), so the connection is not quite as strong... just rivals. :)

Yeah don't know what I was thinking there, confused Felton with Lawson. Those speedy UNC points.


Here's a five-minute video interview with Nolan (http://video-embed.oregonlive.com/services/player/bcpid619299290001?bctid=1328188958001) talking about his summer, being locked out, and his training camp experience.

Sort of unfortunate for both Nolan and Elliot Williams that Jamal Crawford signed with the Blazers. Crawford will push Wesley Matthews to the bench, but Matthews is a better player than Crawford, so while Crawford will make them better overall by creating more depth, I don't think promising him the starting job was wise. Obviously it causes more of an obstacle for PT for Nolan, but I'm sure he'll still make the best of it.

Oriole Way
12-16-2011, 08:19 PM
Lance Thomas drew the start tonight for the Hornets, and he has acquitted himself well, scoring 7 points and grabbing 3 rebounds and 2 steals in steady minutes. The Hornets roster is depleted, but even when they get Landry suited up, they will still need some depth at the small forward spot. Hope he earns himself a roster spot, that would be quite an impressive feat.

ArkieDukie
12-17-2011, 05:24 AM
Lance Thomas drew the start tonight for the Hornets, and he has acquitted himself well, scoring 7 points and grabbing 3 rebounds and 2 steals in steady minutes. The Hornets roster is depleted, but even when they get Landry suited up, they will still need some depth at the small forward spot. Hope he earns himself a roster spot, that would be quite an impressive feat.

I was going to post the same thing. His stat line was pretty good IMO. Correction, though: he had 8 rebounds (3 offensive, 5 defensive) in addition to 7 pts, 2 steals, 1 block, 1 turnover, and only 2 personal fouls in 37 min of play. Granted, I don't follow the NBA that closely, but it seems likely to me that he'd earn a roster spot with this kind of play. Hopefully he'll keep it up. Go LT!

ice-9
12-17-2011, 08:46 AM
Congrats to Lance Thomas! I for one didn't expect him to play in the NBA before Zoubek, Singler or Scheyer.

SilkyJ
12-17-2011, 09:43 AM
Congrats to Lance Thomas! I for one didn't expect him to play in the NBA before Zoubek, Singler or Scheyer.

Just the preseason, but looks like lance started, played 37 mins, and had 7 pts and 8 boards last night.

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=311216029

Acymetric
12-17-2011, 10:50 AM
Just the preseason, but looks like lance started, played 37 mins, and had 7 pts and 8 boards last night.

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=311216029

I don't see any reason why he shouldn't be on a team's bench this year.

gwlaw99
12-17-2011, 03:15 PM
Anyone know what Zoubs is doing this year?

arnie
12-17-2011, 04:57 PM
Hill
Brand
Battier
Maggette
Dunleavy
Boozer
Duhon
Jones, Dante
Deng
Redick
Williams, Shelden
McRoberts
Henderson
Irving
Smith, Nolan

Possibly Lance and Singler if he does change his mind.

Do the 15 first names have secure roster spots this year? Did I leave out anyone? Relatively sure we've never had this many NBA players. Would be curious as to the alltime high from any school in the NBA at the same time.

basket1544
12-18-2011, 02:53 PM
I'm relatively certain that UCLA had 17 players on NBA teams 2 or 3 years ago, but I'm going to have to do some research to back that up because I don't keep up with UCLA on a regular basis.

theAlaskanBear
12-18-2011, 07:48 PM
It's just preseason, but the Heat just brutalized the Orlando Magic, winning by 33points.

Shane Battier did not play for the Heat, but JJ Redick was leading scorer for Orlando at 22 points on 6-11 shooting and a perfect 7-7 from the line. Duhon got almost 20 minutes of action and hit a 3 going 1-2 for the game. We are going to see a bigger role for JJ this season -- it will be great if he can start off hot.

Yesterday Dunleavy had a solid game with a Bucks but took a loss. He scored 16 points on 50% shooting and lead the team with 5 assists.

juise
12-19-2011, 11:30 AM
I might as well be just post a feed to the Oregonion website. Here's another update on Nolan, this about his mentor/mentee relationship with Felton (http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/index.ssf/2011/12/trail_blazers_the_magic_of_mentoring.html). The local press seems to have quickly gained an appreciation for Nolan. How could you not?

Bluedog
12-19-2011, 11:48 AM
Anyone know what Zoubs is doing this year?

He's working for a mobile tech startup company in Durham. Using those smarts!

superdave
12-20-2011, 09:11 AM
Kobe to McRoberts (http://www.nba.com/video/games/lakers/2011/12/19/0011100014_lac_lal_play3.nba/)

CameronBornAndBred
12-20-2011, 09:19 AM
I was looking at Nolan's stats from the front page link (http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=311219022) and noticed that Elliot Williams is on the Trail Blazers too. Both had 12 minutes of time, in which Nolan put up four points while Elliot put up 13. To have more points than minutes is pretty impressive.

nocilla
12-21-2011, 07:49 AM
Just browsing the boxscores for Dukies in preseason action last night;

K. Irving played 25 minutes and shot 5-12 for 11 pts with 2 reb, 3 ast, and 2 stl.
E. Brand scored 8 with 5 reb, 4 ast, and 1 blk.
D. Jones had 4 points and 2 ast in 16 minutes.
C. Boozer with 24 pts, 7 reb, 3 ast, and 2 stls.
L. Deng with 14 pts, 7 reb, 2 ast, 1 stl, and 1 blk.

COYS
12-21-2011, 08:53 AM
Just browsing the boxscores for Dukies in preseason action last night;

K. Irving played 25 minutes and shot 5-12 for 11 pts with 2 reb, 3 ast, and 2 stl.
E. Brand scored 8 with 5 reb, 4 ast, and 1 blk.
D. Jones had 4 points and 2 ast in 16 minutes.
C. Boozer with 24 pts, 7 reb, 3 ast, and 2 stls.
L. Deng with 14 pts, 7 reb, 2 ast, 1 stl, and 1 blk.

That Bulls team is really deep, now. Deng, Boozer, Rose, Noah, and Hamilton with Rip/Noah as the 4th and 5th options can really score and defend. I'm still doubtful they can get past the Heat, but if any team has a chance, it's the Bulls. In a somewhat ironic twist from what was going on in the 90's, it is very possible that the Bulls could be the Indiana Pacers or Ewing's Knicks while the Heat play the role of Michael Jordan's Bulls. The Bulls will be very good for the next couple of seasons . . . certainly capable of winning the championship. However, I think their path will be blocked each year by the super trio in Miami.

_Gary
12-21-2011, 08:58 AM
However, I think their path will be blocked each year by the super trio in Miami.

You mean the super quartet, don't you. :)

COYS
12-21-2011, 09:00 AM
You mean the super quartet, don't you. :)

Ha! Good point. To be honest, Battier is the only reason the prospect of the Heat being the best from the East year in and year out isn't horribly depressing to me.

_Gary
12-21-2011, 10:12 AM
Ha! Good point. To be honest, Battier is the only reason the prospect of the Heat being the best from the East year in and year out isn't horribly depressing to me.

We think alike. Scary thought, isn't it. :D

wgl1228
12-23-2011, 09:04 PM
He is still listed on their website but out of 17 players. They may waive a few before Monday's game.

gwlaw99
12-24-2011, 12:28 AM
He is still listed on their website but out of 17 players. They may waive a few before Monday's game.

Not according to this (http://www.nba.com/bobcats/player_profiles.html) :(

Greg_Newton
12-24-2011, 12:38 AM
Not according to this (http://www.nba.com/bobcats/player_profiles.html) :(

That's because that was the Bobcats page. http://www.nba.com/hornets/roster/

theAlaskanBear
12-24-2011, 09:27 AM
The Hornets Roster lists 16 players after the signing of F Gustavo Ayon (Mex) from the Spanish League. New Orleans is definitely forward heavy, and I have a hard time seeing how Thomas will break into the roster after just two preseason games....he played 8 minutes last game and scored 0 points. The presence of Dajuan Summers is going to hurt Lance -- Summers is a 6-8 SF/PF who can do a lot of the same things as Lance and is a more dangerous scorer.

I hope I can eat my words.

Brian913
12-24-2011, 11:08 AM
The Hornets Roster lists 16 players after the signing of F Gustavo Ayon (Mex) from the Spanish League. New Orleans is definitely forward heavy, and I have a hard time seeing how Thomas will break into the roster after just two preseason games....he played 8 minutes last game and scored 0 points. The presence of Dajuan Summers is going to hurt Lance -- Summers is a 6-8 SF/PF who can do a lot of the same things as Lance and is a more dangerous scorer.

I hope I can eat my words.

I read on some Hornets message board that Summers injury was worse than expected and he may be out 4-6 weeks. If true, that should help Thomas.

wgl1228
12-24-2011, 04:30 PM
Hornets cut someone else today and the roster is down to 15 which is the max. Only 13 can dress and with a few injuries and a suspension Lance should be able to call himself and NBA player for at least a few days.

PumpkinFunk
12-24-2011, 09:10 PM
LT has officially made the Hornets roster. The word is all around Twitter.

hq2
12-24-2011, 09:43 PM
Congrats to LT! What an improvement in 2 years! Seeing him back then, never would have thought he'd be
an NBA player. But, hey, Shavlik pulled it off too. As for the Bulls, it's hard to say. Hamilton's not known as a
great defensive player, but he's still a pretty good shooter. Anyone who saw the series last year could see
that lack of scoring from the 2 spot was a major problem for the Bulls. If Hamilton can give them 15 or so a game,
that might be enough to make the difference, if Wade doesn't drop 35 on him at the other end. We'll see what
happens in the playoffs. Here's hoping for Carlos and Luol.

CrazieDUMB
12-24-2011, 10:34 PM
LT has officially made the Hornets roster. The word is all around Twitter.

link:

http://www.crazie-talk.com/2011/12/24/the-promised-land-lance-thomas-makes-the-cut/

moonpie23
12-24-2011, 11:09 PM
that;s just awesome!!!!!!! congrats lance.....

arnie
12-25-2011, 07:39 AM
that;s just awesome!!!!!!! congrats lance.....

Didn't think he had a chance to do this - hope he can stick. So do we have 16 ex-Dukies on NBA rosters now?

sagegrouse
12-25-2011, 08:18 AM
Didn't think he had a chance to do this - hope he can stick. So do we have 16 ex-Dukies on NBA rosters now?

Here's a list of 16 and 1 --




Grant Suns 1994
Elton Sixers 1999
Magg'te Bobcats 1999
Battier Heat 2001
Boozer Bulls 2002
Dunl'vy Bucks 2002
Dahntay Pacers 2003
Duhon Magic 2004
Deng Bulls 2004
Shelden Nets 2006
JJ Magic 2006
McBob Lakers 2007
Gerald Bobcats 2009
Lance Hornets 2010
Smith Blazers 2011
Kyrie Pistons 2011

And 1
EWill Blazers 2009



Merry Christmas -

sagegrouse

arnie
12-25-2011, 08:54 AM
Here's a list of 16 and 1 --




Grant Suns 1994
Elton Sixers 1999
Magg'te Bobcats 1999
Battier Heat 2001
Boozer Bulls 2002
Dunl'vy Bucks 2002
Dahntay Pacers 2003
Duhon Magic 2004
Deng Bulls 2004
Shelden Nets 2006
JJ Magic 2006
McBob Lakers 2007
Gerald Bobcats 2009
Lance Hornets 2010
Smith Blazers 2011
Kyrie Pistons 2011

And 1
EWill Blazers 2009



Merry Christmas -

sagegrouse

Thanks for the list! Most we've ever had and if Singler does come home for some reason, it could be 17 this year. I think someone earlier thought 17 was the record for any school - would be good to see a national news organization point this out!

sagegrouse
12-25-2011, 10:47 AM
Thanks for the list! Most we've ever had and if Singler does come home for some reason, it could be 17 this year. I think someone earlier thought 17 was the record for any school - would be good to see a national news organization point this out!

The date is the "last Duke year." -- sage

Saratoga2
12-25-2011, 11:35 AM
Thanks for the list! Most we've ever had and if Singler does come home for some reason, it could be 17 this year. I think someone earlier thought 17 was the record for any school - would be good to see a national news organization point this out!

Good for Duke recruiting to have so many players learn their craft at Duke and make the NBA later. I too though Thomas was not going to make the NBA. He must hae continued to work very hard and certainly his defense must have helped him.

SilkyJ
12-25-2011, 02:10 PM
1st Dukie taking the floor today as Shane just subbed in for the heat.

By my count we've got Luol, Boozer, JJ and Duhon left to play today. Looking forward to both Bulls/Lakers and Magic/Thunder.

Acymetric
12-25-2011, 02:45 PM
1st Dukie taking the floor today as Shane just subbed in for the heat.

By my count we've got Luol, Boozer, JJ and Duhon left to play today. Looking forward to both Bulls/Lakers and Magic/Thunder.

McRoberts plays for the lakers as well.

SilkyJ
12-25-2011, 03:31 PM
McRoberts plays for the lakers as well.

Good call. McRoberts stands to see some run with Bynum serving a few game suspension for his close line on Barea in the Lakers last game last year. Not sure where he stands on the depth chart relative to Troy Murphy but he could conceivably play quite a bit...

doctorhook
12-25-2011, 03:32 PM
Thanks for the list! Most we've ever had and if Singler does come home for some reason, it could be 17 this year. I think someone earlier thought 17 was the record for any school - would be good to see a national news organization point this out!

I know it is just a typo, but Kyrie with the Cavs.

sagegrouse
12-25-2011, 03:49 PM
Grant Suns 1994
Elton Sixers 1999
Magg'te Bobcats 1999
Battier Heat 2001
Boozer Bulls 2002
Dunl'vy Bucks 2002
Dahntay Pacers 2003
Duhon Magic 2004
Deng Bulls 2004
Shelden Nets 2006
JJ Magic 2006
McBob Lakers 2007
Gerald Bobcats 2009
Lance Hornets 2010
Smith Blazers 2011
Kyrie Cavs 2011

And 1
EWill Blazers 2009 Merry Christmas -



Thanks for the corrections. Any others?

sage

Aditya
12-25-2011, 04:33 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=Ausu9ijj28T.AhMji_AYFFK8vLYF?gid=201 1122513

McBob is starting

SilkyJ
12-25-2011, 07:13 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=Ausu9ijj28T.AhMji_AYFFK8vLYF?gid=201 1122513

McBob is starting

I watched most of the game (it was a great one, btw) and he played well. Also seemed to be ahead of Troy Murphy in the rotation, so I'd expect him to see good minutes even once Bynum comes back.

Luol had a great steal with about 10 seconds left that led to a Rose floater, which put the bulls up 1 and sealed the game. Great game to watch as someone who didn't really have much skin in the game.

Looking forward to watching JJ next.

doctorhook
12-25-2011, 07:36 PM
I watched most of the game (it was a great one, btw) and he played well. Also seemed to be ahead of Troy Murphy in the rotation, so I'd expect him to see good minutes even once Bynum comes back.

Luol had a great steal with about 10 seconds left that led to a Rose floater, which put the bulls up 1 and sealed the game. Great game to watch as someone who didn't really have much skin in the game.

Looking forward to watching JJ next.

Luol also had the three point play prior to that and the block on Kobe to win the game.

Acymetric
12-25-2011, 09:01 PM
I know he was limited today during injury, but how will Shane fit into the Heat's lineup competing for minutes at forward with Lebron?

SilkyJ
12-26-2011, 07:55 AM
I know he was limited today during injury, but how will Shane fit into the Heat's lineup competing for minutes at forward with Lebron?

Shane is versatile enough to play the 2-4, so I'm sure they'll find a way to get him some minutes, but I don't think he's going to play a ton if all the players ahead of him stay healthy. Call it ~15-18mpg (I wouldn't be surprised if it was less, actually), and less in close games (i.e. playoffs) where the starters play more. Wade will play 35+ at the 2, Lebron 38+ at the 3, and Haslem will play a lot at the 4 as well. Add in James Jones to the mix, who is a solid player and great shooter and its going to be tough to see a ton of minutes. But I do think he'll spell all 3 of those guys at times (Wade, Bron, Haslem) and if/when folks get injured and/or in foul trouble, Battier should be an early option for minutes.

SilkyJ
12-26-2011, 09:17 AM
Luol also had the three point play prior to that and the block on Kobe to win the game.

Indeed he did. Didn't realize he got the block at first as I thought he got beat and then Noah got the block when he came over to help. This clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTHcxYX8Uz8) shows that Luol actually blocked it.

3 clutch plays by Luol in the final 10 seconds!

hq2
12-26-2011, 02:56 PM
Also seemed to be ahead of Troy Murphy in the rotation

Not saying much these days....

JasonEvans
12-26-2011, 03:23 PM
If you want to make the NBA, play for Duke first
Good for Duke recruiting to have so many players learn their craft at Duke and make the NBA later. I too though Thomas was not going to make the NBA. He must hae continued to work very hard and certainly his defense must have helped him.

We really need to be careful about that message. Kentucky is likely to blow past us the next couple years in terms of total NBA players. They are specifically catering to the kid who wants to spend as little time in school as possible on their way to the NBA. Duke has never been about that path.

The better message is that guys like Lance, who did not seem to posess the skill set or athletic gifts to make himself much of an NBA prospect, learned to play the game in such a way at Duke that he was able to make himself into an NBA player. Whether you have "ready for the NBA" skills right now or whether you need to develop them, Duke will teach you and make your game better and give you a better shot at NBA success.

And, if you happen to miss making the NBA, we do a darn nice job of placing guys in prominent overseas programs as well as among the coaching fraternity.

-Jason "I would not want to be an NBA factory-- I like having kids who 'unpack their bags' at Duke" Evans

OldPhiKap
12-26-2011, 03:32 PM
We really need to be careful about that message. Kentucky is likely to blow past us the next couple years in terms of total NBA players. They are specifically catering to the kid who wants to spend as little time in school as possible on their way to the NBA. Duke has never been about that path.

The better message is that guys like Lance, who did not seem to posess the skill set or athletic gifts to make himself much of an NBA prospect, learned to play the game in such a way at Duke that he was able to make himself into an NBA player. Whether you have "ready for the NBA" skills right now or whether you need to develop them, Duke will teach you and make your game better and give you a better shot at NBA success.

And, if you happen to miss making the NBA, we do a darn nice job of placing guys in prominent overseas programs as well as among the coaching fraternity.

-Jason "I would not want to be an NBA factory-- I like having kids who 'unpack their bags' at Duke" Evans

JJ had a great interview in this week's Inside Basketball with Coach K. He said that he did not see himself as an NBA player when he came to Duke, but gave Coach and the staff credit with working with him and making him into a pro. Worth watching.

Greg_Newton
12-26-2011, 03:33 PM
Grant Suns 1994
Elton Sixers 1999
Magg'te Bobcats 1999
Battier Heat 2001
Boozer Bulls 2002
Dunl'vy Bucks 2002
Dahntay Pacers 2003
Duhon Magic 2004
Deng Bulls 2004
Shelden Nets 2006
JJ Magic 2006
McBob Lakers 2007
Gerald Bobcats 2009
Lance Hornets 2010
Smith Blazers 2011
Kyrie Cavs 2011

And 1
EWill Blazers 2009 Merry Christmas -



Thanks for the corrections. Any others?

sage

Looks good; plus, it looks likely that Kyle and Shav will join the ranks next year, with Rivers and Mason also more likely than not. If none of the old men retire, we could be looking at 20 NBA Players :eek:

(Not a bad young starting 5 either with Kyrie-Austin-Gerald-McBob-Mason...)

JasonEvans
12-26-2011, 08:27 PM
Looks good; plus, it looks likely that Kyle and Shav will join the ranks next year, with Rivers and Mason also more likely than not. If none of the old men retire, we could be looking at 20 NBA Players :eek:

(Not a bad young starting 5 either with Kyrie-Austin-Gerald-McBob-Mason...)

Well, I dunno about Shav. He has had trouble sticking with an NBA team the past couple years. He is doing quite nicely with his Puerto Rican team so far, 18.5 ppg, 12.5 rpg. He may find that getting significant playing time with an international club suits him better than trying to find a NBA team that has a bench spot he can occupy. Of course, by getting more playing time, his game may improve and he might be able to get more than a deep bench role in the NBA... you never know.

-Jason "I hope Mason and Rivers are not in the NBA next year... Miles has a decent shot though" Evans

theAlaskanBear
12-26-2011, 08:57 PM
Here are some of the results for the early NBA games tonight:

Henderson had 18points, 9rebs and Maggette had 12points, 7rebs in a 1 point Charlotte win over the Milwaukee Bucks. Dunleavy had 13 points in the losing effort.
Redick had a great game: 20points on 8-12 shooting including 3-4 from downtown. Duhon had 5 points on 2-4 shooting in 17minutes.
Kyrie had a less than stellar game: 2-12 with 6 points in 26 minutes but did manage 7 assists. He took a loss to the Raptors.
Dahntay Jones had 7 points in 12minutes with 3-6 shooting as Indiana took down Detroit.
Shelden Williams scored 0 points in 8 minutes with the Nets in a win over the Wizards.

Gthoma2a
12-26-2011, 09:52 PM
I am not saying that this is the case after one real game and a couple of exhibitions, but does anyone think that there is a possibility that Kyrie's best piece of luck was playing so few games in college? He was great as a college player, but we didn't see him enough to see how great he was. He played extremely well early, but when he came back, he was lucky enough to avoid criticism due to his layoff. Could it be possible that we could have just assumed that he was ready since he was the hero and missing piece that he was more developed than he really was? Obviously, he would be there at some point no matter, so don't get me wrong. I just want other peoples' thoughts.

-jk
12-26-2011, 10:33 PM
I am not saying that this is the case after one real game and a couple of exhibitions, but does anyone think that there is a possibility that Kyrie's best piece of luck was playing so few games in college? He was great as a college player, but we didn't see him enough to see how great he was. He played extremely well early, but when he came back, he was lucky enough to avoid criticism due to his layoff. Could it be possible that we could have just assumed that he was ready since he was the hero and missing piece that he was more developed than he really was? Obviously, he would be there at some point no matter, so don't get me wrong. I just want other peoples' thoughts.

I'm sorry, but I really don't get what you're trying to get at with this post.

-jk

Gthoma2a
12-26-2011, 10:45 PM
Could the limited number of games played for Kyrie fooled people into thinking he was more developed than he is? I am not saying it is for sure the case, but does anybody else get the feeling that he will have to work more than people thought?

I feel like his athleticism is there, and he will no doubt be a very good pro, but could we have started to imagine him as being better than he was because we missed him so much over the season? It is like Tim Tebow. He was a great college player, but his fan base makes him out to be something that he isn't. The injury kept us from seeing weaknesses last season. In Kyrie's instance, it isn't the weaknesses we saw, but what we didn't see that may have built our own image of Kyrie that wasn't real. My point being, he will be a good pro, but could we have been wrong in thinking he was already on that level? Didn't he even have limited workouts for scouts? I get the nagging feeling that he could have used a full season to develop. He was a great player, but you can only grow so much in a few games. Wall had a full season, as do most first overall picks. Kyrie had a long layoff, and, while he hedged his bets by taking the money quick, he may have to learn on the job with some bigger bumps along the way.

Analogy of what I am asking, isn't it hard to analyze a prizefighter who only has a hand full of fights?

-bdbd
12-27-2011, 12:26 AM
Here are some of the results for the early NBA games tonight:

Henderson had 18points, 9rebs and Maggette had 12points, 7rebs in a 1 point Charlotte win over the Milwaukee Bucks. Dunleavy had 13 points in the losing effort.
Redick had a great game: 20points on 8-12 shooting including 3-4 from downtown. Duhon had 5 points on 2-4 shooting in 17minutes.
Kyrie had a less than stellar game: 2-12 with 6 points in 26 minutes but did manage 7 assists. He took a loss to the Raptors.
Dahntay Jones had 7 points in 12minutes with 3-6 shooting as Indiana took down Detroit.
Shelden Williams scored 0 points in 8 minutes with the Nets in a win over the Wizards.

Some added notes for tonight in the NBA for "Duke guys:"


Luol Deng (CHI) - Led all CHI scorers (by a lot) with 22 pts (10 of 15 shooting), 10 reb, in 39 min.
Carlos Boozer (CHI) - Also started for CHI, in the close loss to GS played 25 min, scored 6 pts (3 of 5 shooting), with 3 Reb's.
Elton Brand (PHI) - Started and played 27 min., scoring 10 pts and 8 reb's in a close loss.
Grant Hill (PHX) - Started and played 23 min., scoring 6 pts and 7 reb's in the Phoenix loss.
McBob (LAL) - Started and played 21 minutes, scoring just 2 points (0-2 shooting) and 5 reb's for the Lakers losing to Sac.
Nolan Smith (POR) - For the winning Trailblazers speelled starting PG Ray "God" Felton for just 3 pts in 3 minutes of play.
Shaun Livingston (MIL) - Always a Dukie in my heart, seems to be coming back nicely from that horribleiknee injury5 years ago, as the 6th man for Milw., playing 35 minutes (!!) and scoring 14 pts, with 6 assists and 4 reb's in their close loss to Charlotte. (Kinda fun seeing two guys who coulda easily have been Duke teammates playing together in the pro's - SL and Mike Dun.)
Chris Duhon (Orl) - Back-up PG Chris D. plays 18 min and scores 5 pts (2-4) with 2 assists. Of note, he outscored starting PG Nelson in slightly more than half the minutes. If Nelson keeps playing like this expect to see Chris playing many more minutes...)

OVERALL NOT A BAD "OPENING" NIGHT FOR NBA DUKIES - ESP. Henderson, Deng, Maggette, Dunleavy, Reddick, and Brand. And I expect Kyrie to settle in nicely after some initial jitters. He's a core piece of the Cav's future for a long time.

BTW, Jason, I understand/agree with your point about the message Duke can truthfully emphasize to recruits, but it sure is hard to fit that "on a bumper sticker." It would be really key to see a superstar develop to carry the Duke flag in the league, maybe from among Kyrie, Deng, Reddick, Boozer, Henderson....

--- BD- "unfortunately that seems to be what kids notice more" -BD

juise
12-27-2011, 12:31 AM
Could the limited number of games played for Kyrie fooled people into thinking he was more developed than he is? I am not saying it is for sure the case, but does anybody else get the feeling that he will have to work more than people thought?

I think that the sample size of Kyrie's NBA career has shielded more of his true ability than the sample size of Kyrie's college career. K has worked with several NBA-caliber guards and a handful of world-class guards (team USA). He was as complementary of Kyrie's abilities as anyone.

Kyrie will be more than fine. He'll be one of the best three rookies in the league this year. Even elite talents struggle early in their careers (this was J-Will's third game (http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=221102001)... pretty similar to Kyrie's tonight.)

zoroaster
12-27-2011, 01:33 AM
Not sure if someone has posted this before, but Cavaliers coach Byron Scott had some words about Kyrie a few days ago (and as the article points out, Scott knows something about good point guards, having played with Magic Johnson and coached Jason Kidd and Chris Paul). Hope this isn't too long a quote:


“Every day I see glimpses of what this kid can do,” Scott said. “Then maybe 10 minutes later, he’ll show me he’s still a rookie. It brings a smile to my face, though, because we’ve got a good one.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/point-man-cavaliers-counting-on-rookie-guard-kyrie-irving-to-lead-them-back-to-nba-relevance/2011/12/20/gIQAGX8Q7O_story.html

dukelifer
12-27-2011, 11:38 AM
Could the limited number of games played for Kyrie fooled people into thinking he was more developed than he is? I am not saying it is for sure the case, but does anybody else get the feeling that he will have to work more than people thought?

I feel like his athleticism is there, and he will no doubt be a very good pro, but could we have started to imagine him as being better than he was because we missed him so much over the season? It is like Tim Tebow. He was a great college player, but his fan base makes him out to be something that he isn't. The injury kept us from seeing weaknesses last season. In Kyrie's instance, it isn't the weaknesses we saw, but what we didn't see that may have built our own image of Kyrie that wasn't real. My point being, he will be a good pro, but could we have been wrong in thinking he was already on that level? Didn't he even have limited workouts for scouts? I get the nagging feeling that he could have used a full season to develop. He was a great player, but you can only grow so much in a few games. Wall had a full season, as do most first overall picks. Kyrie had a long layoff, and, while he hedged his bets by taking the money quick, he may have to learn on the job with some bigger bumps along the way.

Analogy of what I am asking, isn't it hard to analyze a prizefighter who only has a hand full of fights?

Kyrie has a lot to learn as does every rookie player who comes into the league. Kyrie played two preseason games- against the same team and had very little practice time with his team- a team which is really not that good. His main weakness is lack of experience. He also lacks a great player on the team that demands attention. He will figure it out and learn to learn how to use his tools effectively. I expect some struggles early.

jimsumner
12-27-2011, 01:14 PM
Can we please spell Redick's name correctly?

Others may disagree but I've never considered Livingston a part of the Duke family.



Some added notes for tonight in the NBA for "Duke guys:"


Luol Deng (CHI) - Led all CHI scorers (by a lot) with 22 pts (10 of 15 shooting), 10 reb, in 39 min.
Carlos Boozer (CHI) - Also started for CHI, in the close loss to GS played 25 min, scored 6 pts (3 of 5 shooting), with 3 Reb's.
Elton Brand (PHI) - Started and played 27 min., scoring 10 pts and 8 reb's in a close loss.
Grant Hill (PHX) - Started and played 23 min., scoring 6 pts and 7 reb's in the Phoenix loss.
McBob (LAL) - Started and played 21 minutes, scoring just 2 points (0-2 shooting) and 5 reb's for the Lakers losing to Sac.
Nolan Smith (POR) - For the winning Trailblazers speelled starting PG Ray "God" Felton for just 3 pts in 3 minutes of play.
Shaun Livingston (MIL) - Always a Dukie in my heart, seems to be coming back nicely from that horribleiknee injury5 years ago, as the 6th man for Milw., playing 35 minutes (!!) and scoring 14 pts, with 6 assists and 4 reb's in their close loss to Charlotte. (Kinda fun seeing two guys who coulda easily have been Duke teammates playing together in the pro's - SL and Mike Dun.)
Chris Duhon (Orl) - Back-up PG Chris D. plays 18 min and scores 5 pts (2-4) with 2 assists. Of note, he outscored starting PG Nelson in slightly more than half the minutes. If Nelson keeps playing like this expect to see Chris playing many more minutes...)

OVERALL NOT A BAD "OPENING" NIGHT FOR NBA DUKIES - ESP. Henderson, Deng, Maggette, Dunleavy, Reddick, and Brand. And I expect Kyrie to settle in nicely after some initial jitters. He's a core piece of the Cav's future for a long time.

BTW, Jason, I understand/agree with your point about the message Duke can truthfully emphasize to recruits, but it sure is hard to fit that "on a bumper sticker." It would be really key to see a superstar develop to carry the Duke flag in the league, maybe from among Kyrie, Deng, Reddick, Boozer, Henderson....

--- BD- "unfortunately that seems to be what kids notice more" -BD

DukieInBrasil
12-27-2011, 01:26 PM
Others may disagree but I've never considered Livingston a part of the Duke family.

Correct. He never stepped foot on campus as a student, never played a game in a Duke uni. Putting SL in the Duke family is identical to putting Kris Humphries in the family, which i don't hear anyone clamoring for.
I too am pleased to see that he is recovering well from such a horrible injury, but he does not belong in the Duke Alum list.

JasonEvans
12-28-2011, 12:36 AM
Correct. He never stepped foot on campus as a student, never played a game in a Duke uni. Putting SL in the Duke family is identical to putting Kris Humphries in the family, which i don't hear anyone clamoring for.
I too am pleased to see that he is recovering well from such a horrible injury, but he does not belong in the Duke Alum list.

Hang on a sec. I agree that Livingston does not belong on the alum list, but to put him in the same boat as Hump... well, that just ain't fair.

One kid committed to Duke; wanted to come here; but was presented with an incredible opportunity to advance directly to the NBA (as a high lottery pick) with a massive guaranteed contract and took it.

The other kid committed to Duke; tried to get a playing time commitment out of Coach K; decided that if he was going to have to "earn" his playing time, he was going to play somewhere else; and then arranged to not say mean things about Duke in exchange for us helping him to get immediately eligible at Minnesota (where he barely unpacked his bags before heading directly to the NBA as a mid first-round pick).

I don't see them nearly the same. Livingston wanted to play at Duke. Humphries wanted to use Duke and, when we refused to be used, he went elsewhere.

-Jason "I've always rooted for SL in the pros... and felt like he was a Dukie at heart" Evans

SilkyJ
12-28-2011, 07:35 AM
Shane is versatile enough to play the 2-4, so I'm sure they'll find a way to get him some minutes, but I don't think he's going to play a ton if all the players ahead of him stay healthy. Call it ~15-18mpg (I wouldn't be surprised if it was less, actually), and less in close games (i.e. playoffs) where the starters play more. Wade will play 35+ at the 2, Lebron 38+ at the 3, and Haslem will play a lot at the 4 as well. Add in James Jones to the mix, who is a solid player and great shooter and its going to be tough to see a ton of minutes. But I do think he'll spell all 3 of those guys at times (Wade, Bron, Haslem) and if/when folks get injured and/or in foul trouble, Battier should be an early option for minutes.

Shane played 17 mins last night against the Celtics and while its only one game, it was against a top tier opponent and it was close so could be a decent proxy for what we can expect in terms of how many minutes he'll play.

I didn't see the game, but I went through the play-by-play and attempted to track subs/lineups and it looks like he subbed in for Wade mostly and played the 2 more than the 3 (possibly b/c he needed to guard Ray Allen vs Paul Pierce who didn't play). Lebron and Wade played 36 mins each, Bosh 37 and Haslem 31, so even with those guys getting lots of minutes, he still managed 17 mins, which is about what I expected. Just one game, so we'll see where he averages out, but I think this is a good amount for him and he should be the first wing sub off the bench.

Bunch of Dukies played last night (with this crammed sked, seems like a bunch of guys will play every night) and I didn't see any really notable stat lines. McBob had 6 and 6 in 20mins, and Dunleavy had 8 assists, but shot 2-9. Glad to see Nolan played 7 mins last night, but its going to be tough for him to see a bunch of time with Jamal Crawford also coming off the bench.

DukieInBrasil
12-28-2011, 08:22 AM
Hang on a sec. I agree that Livingston does not belong on the alum list, but to put him in the same boat as Hump... well, that just ain't fair.

One kid committed to Duke; wanted to come here; but was presented with an incredible opportunity to advance directly to the NBA (as a high lottery pick) with a massive guaranteed contract and took it.

The other kid committed to Duke; tried to get a playing time commitment out of Coach K; decided that if he was going to have to "earn" his playing time, he was going to play somewhere else; and then arranged to not say mean things about Duke in exchange for us helping him to get immediately eligible at Minnesota (where he barely unpacked his bags before heading directly to the NBA as a mid first-round pick).

I don't see them nearly the same. Livingston wanted to play at Duke. Humphries wanted to use Duke and, when we refused to be used, he went elsewhere.

-Jason "I've always rooted for SL in the pros... and felt like he was a Dukie at heart" Evans

Neither belongs in the Duke family, that was my point, not to point out any personal defects or desire to play somewhere else. SL wanted to play in the NBA more than he wanted to play at Duke. Great. KH wanted to play in the NBA more than he wanted to play at Duke, and chose to be an a***ole about it.
I guess i'm kinda miffed at SL b/c he backed out after committing and cost us a chance to recruit someone for that spot and after Deng left we had no one in that class. That's not really his fault, but it hurt the Duke program for a while. Actually, with the way things shook out, even if KH and SL had come to Duke along with Deng, it's quite possible that all 3 would have been 1-and-done players, leaving Duke w/o a Sr. class anyway.

JBDuke
12-28-2011, 09:27 AM
...McBob had 6 and 6 in 20mins...

Two of those points came on an alley-oop dunk courtesy of a Steve Blake pass. Check it out at the 0:50 second mark on the game highlight video:

http://www.nba.com/tvc/index.html?gamecode=20111227/UTALAL&brand=TNT

nocilla
12-28-2011, 09:37 AM
Two of those points came on an alley-oop dunk courtesy of a Steve Blake pass. Check it out at the 0:50 second mark on the game highlight video:

http://www.nba.com/tvc/index.html?gamecode=20111227/UTALAL&brand=TNT

Best part might be the announcer saying "Josh McRoberts - all he does is make highlights."

jimsumner
12-28-2011, 01:14 PM
Deng and Livingston were not in the same class. Humphries was in Deng's class. Livingston was in the same class as DeMarcus Nelson and David McClure.


Neither belongs in the Duke family, that was my point, not to point out any personal defects or desire to play somewhere
else. SL wanted to play in the NBA more than he wanted to play at Duke. Great. KH wanted to play in the NBA more than he wanted to play at Duke, and chose to be an a***ole about it.
I guess i'm kinda miffed at SL b/c he backed out after committing and cost us a chance to recruit someone for that spot and after Deng left we had no one in that class. That's not really his fault, but it hurt the Duke program for a while. Actually, with the way things shook out, even if KH and SL had come to Duke along with Deng, it's quite possible that all 3 would have been 1-and-done players, leaving Duke w/o a Sr. class anyway.

DukieInBrasil
12-28-2011, 01:22 PM
Deng and Livingston were not in the same class. Humphries was in Deng's class. Livingston was in the same class as DeMarcus Nelson and David McClure.
Right. Thanks for the correction. Perhaps i should rethink that Livingston situation, although i stand by my assertion that SL does not deserve to be considered "family" by Duke fans.

jimsumner
12-28-2011, 01:49 PM
Right. Thanks for the correction. Perhaps i should rethink that Livingston situation, although i stand by my assertion that SL does not deserve to be considered "family" by Duke fans.

The 2007 situation was a direct result of the NCAA's short-lived, much-maligned and unmourned 5/8 rule, which limited a school to a maximum of five recruits in one season and eight over two consecutive seasons.

Duke brought in six players from the h.s. class of 2002. J.J. Redick, Shelden Williams, Michael Thompson and Sean Dockery were the first four.

Duke was still recruiting Shavlik Randolph and Lee Melchionni. Mel wanted to take that fifth scholarship. Duke accepted with one proviso. Should Randolph also want to come to Duke, Melchionni's family would pay Lee's way for one and only one season.

That's what happened, of course. [Note than Lee's recruited status means he was never a walk-on.]

That left Duke with only two scholarships for the following class. Duke only recruited three players from that class, Deng, Humphries and Ebi. The idea was to get Deng and one of the other two.

That's also what happened. Until Duke pulled the plug on Humphries, too late to fill the class with a second player.

Now, none of Deng, Humphries or Ebi was going to be around in 2007. So, K warrants some blame for this. The best move would have been to redshirt Melchionni as a freshman. He played all of 71 minutes that season. Duke could have traded that 2003 season for a 2007 season, in which Melchionni would have been a fifth-year senior, ready to contribute on the court, while providing the veteran leadership that team so desperately needed.

There's an even more tantalizing possibilty. Shav went to the NBA following the 2005 season in part because he wasn't sure he would start the following season, with McRoberts joining Williams. Imagine Randolph coming back in 2006 but redshirting and playing in 2007 as a fifth-year senior.

I suspect Shav was ready to get out of Dodge after 2005, so this scenario likely is the product of a fevered imagination. But the Melchionni scenario seems plausible and possible to me.

But we all know what they say about hindsight.

MChambers
12-28-2011, 07:22 PM
Watched the first few minutes of Irving and four other guys wearing Cavs uniforms (including an ancient Jamison) against four guys wearing Pistons uniforms. Irving looked great: three quick assists and two buckets.

Can't say much about watching the NBA, however. I really wonder how the players feel in a game like this. Not much real excitement.

Bluedog
12-28-2011, 09:15 PM
Gerald had a huge game for the Bobcats, scoring 21 points and hitting a super clutch three to put his team up one over the Heat with 12 seconds left...But ended up on the losing end after Wade hit the game winner with 2.9 seconds. Kyrie ended up having a solid game in a 16 point victory at Detroit, netting 14 points on 5-9 shooting and dishing out 7 assists. Brandon Knight tallied 23 points and 6 assists for the Pistons.

moonpie23
12-28-2011, 09:17 PM
hey , does anyone have a new link that gives us the dukies in the nba totals each night...?


it used to be
http://huckleberry.mhc.edu/devilStats.html

that doesn't seem to work...


thx

theAlaskanBear
12-29-2011, 09:11 AM
Dahntay Jones was 2-6 with 4 points in 16 minutes in an Indiana win.

Gerald Henderson had a big game -- 21 points 4ast and 3reb on 10-19 in a last second loss to Miami. He hit a go-ahead 3 with 12 seconds but Dwayne Wade hit a buzzer beater. Maggette had a rough game finishing with just 6-points but added 8rebs. Battier was 0-2 in 19 minutes but blocked 3 shots and grabbed 2 boards for the winning team.

Irving had a much better game tonight, 14points 7ast, and 4rebs as the Cavs beat the Pistons.

Grant Hill had 14points on 4-12 shooting in a PHX loss to PHI. Brand had 4points and 9rebs.

Think I caught all the Dukies in action, but...

COYS
12-29-2011, 09:20 AM
Dahntay Jones was 2-6 with 4 points in 16 minutes in an Indiana win.

Gerald Henderson had a big game -- 21 points 4ast and 3reb on 10-19 in a last second loss to Miami. He hit a go-ahead 3 with 12 seconds but Dwayne Wade hit a buzzer beater. Maggette had a rough game finishing with just 6-points but added 8rebs. Battier was 0-2 in 19 minutes but blocked 3 shots and grabbed 2 boards for the winning team.

Irving had a much better game tonight, 14points 7ast, and 4rebs as the Cavs beat the Pistons.

Grant Hill had 14points on 4-12 shooting in a PHX loss to PHI. Brand had 4points and 9rebs.

Think I caught all the Dukies in action, but...

Gerald is really starting off hot this year. He might be next in line after Battier to become the best Duke defender in the NBA. His offense is looking much better, too. If he can figure out a way to reduce his turnovers a bit and get to the free throw line a little more, he just might turn himself into the total package. His defense against Wade on the game winning shot was excellent. Honestly, there's not much else he could have done. He stayed in front of Wade, didn't let him overpower him once he got close to the basket, stayed on the ground following Wade's pump fake, and contested the fade-away jumper as well as you could hope for. If the shot had not gone in, Gerald would've gotten even more acclaim for his all around game against what might be the best team in the league.

hq2
12-29-2011, 11:15 AM
He's starting to show why we knew he would eventually be a good NBA player. His shooting range wasn't
quite in the 2 guard range in college, but I think he's fixed that. Glad he's stepping up now.

Bluedog
12-29-2011, 12:03 PM
hey , does anyone have a new link that gives us the dukies in the nba totals each night...?


it used to be
http://huckleberry.mhc.edu/devilStats.html

that doesn't seem to work...


thx

You can try these links, which are from an NBA fantasy league with teams separated by college attended set up by someone on another board:
Stats Today (http://basketball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/nba/80032/1/team?stat1=S&stat2=D)
Season Averages (http://basketball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/nba/80032/1/team?stat1=AS)

Alternatively, you can go to to click on the players from this ESPN link:
http://espn.go.com/nba/players/_/college/150

jimsumner
12-29-2011, 12:44 PM
Elton Brand's decline is apparent and sad. At 32, it looks like all the injuries may have finally caught up with him. The Sixers are paying him a boatload of money for those 7 points per game. Not sure if his salary makes him unmoveable or not.

I suspect his all-star days are behind him. Hopefully, he'll warm up as the season progresses and became a solid player.

Acymetric
12-29-2011, 01:29 PM
Elton Brand's decline is apparent and sad. At 32, it looks like all the injuries may have finally caught up with him. The Sixers are paying him a boatload of money for those 7 points per game. Not sure if his salary makes him unmoveable or not.

I suspect his all-star days are behind him. Hopefully, he'll warm up as the season progresses and became a solid player.

Achilles injuries are so tough to overcome. I had a friend in college who tore his achilles playing soccer...it took him almost a full year after the injury before he could walk without a limp, let alone exercise. Hopefully he can adapt his game and stick around the league for a while even if he isn't one of the top post players anymore.

DukieInBrasil
12-29-2011, 02:02 PM
Elton Brand's decline is apparent and sad. At 32, it looks like all the injuries may have finally caught up with him. The Sixers are paying him a boatload of money for those 7 points per game. Not sure if his salary makes him unmoveable or not.

I suspect his all-star days are behind him. Hopefully, he'll warm up as the season progresses and became a solid player.
Yeah, that was apparent last year too as his numbers were down significantly. He is still a good rebounder, as his girth and space-eating ability in the lane haven't diminished. He may not have adjusted his offensive game to fit his new limitations. Perhaps a jump-hook or fade-away jumper would help him stay effective on the offense as it looks like his FG% is what has really taken a hit.

_Gary
12-29-2011, 02:49 PM
One of Elton's great strengths was his explosiveness. Before the Achilles injury he had the ability to catch an entry pass and just explode upward for a thunderous dunk right in his opponent's face. That aspect of his game is clearly gone now, so it's no shock his scoring in particular is going to diminish. It's a real shame his entire career has basically been spent on poor teams. He helped the Clips early on during his tenure there, but he never had the pieces around him. The three things I always wish for Dukies in the NBA are that they get to play on solid, playoff bound teams, that they are given legitimate shots to earn plenty of PT, and of course that they stay healthy. Elton only had one of those three happen for him (the PT), imho. It's a pity because he was always one of my favorite Duke players and I was hoping he'd be able to play for a championship team and pick up a ring or two during his time in the League. Doesn't look like that's going to happen now. :(

sagegrouse
12-29-2011, 02:52 PM
Yeah, that was apparent last year too as his numbers were down significantly. He is still a good rebounder, as his girth and space-eating ability in the lane haven't diminished. He may not have adjusted his offensive game to fit his new limitations. Perhaps a jump-hook or fade-away jumper would help him stay effective on the offense as it looks like his FG% is what has really taken a hit.


One of Elton's great strengths was his explosiveness. Before the Achilles injury he had the ability to catch an entry pass and just explode upward for a thunderous dunk right in his opponent's face. That aspect of his game is clearly gone now, so it's no shock his scoring in particular is going to diminish. It's a real shame his entire career has basically been spent on poor teams. He helped the Clips early on during his tenure there, but he never had the pieces around him. The three things I always wish for Dukies in the NBA are that they get to play on solid, playoff bound teams, that they are given legitimate shots to earn plenty of PT, and of course that they stay healthy. Elton only had one of those three happen for him (the PT), imho. It's a pity because he was always one of my favorite Duke players and I was hoping he'd be able to play for a championship team and pick up a ring or two during his time in the League. Doesn't look like that's going to happen now. :(

I wouldn't give up so quickly on Elton. Last year's numbers were affected by his Achilles tendon injury (24 months ago). We'll see what he brings this year. The early-season games would be preseason games in years past.

sage

SilkyJ
12-29-2011, 02:56 PM
His defense against Wade on the game winning shot was excellent. Honestly, there's not much else he could have done. He stayed in front of Wade, didn't let him overpower him once he got close to the basket, stayed on the ground following Wade's pump fake, and contested the fade-away jumper as well as you could hope for. If the shot had not gone in, Gerald would've gotten even more acclaim for his all around game against what might be the best team in the league.

I wouldn't call it excellent by any means, but it wasn't bad, maybe "solid." He shifted his body to force Wade left, and when he did that Wade immediately went left and got by him easily. Gerald recovered and cut him off, but Wade was already 8 feet away. While he didn't go for the pump fake, by not jumping at all to contest the shot he allowed Wade, an elite leaper, to rise over him and shoot from about 8 feet...

So I'd say he played solid D, but not "excellent" D. Excellent would have been preventing from getting so close, forcing a pass, or getting up and really contesting the jumper (holding a hand up and not jumping isn't going to do much against an elite leaper and scorer like Wade).

I'm probably being a little too critical, but I remember seeing the play and immediately thinking that Gerald had let Wade get by him, so when I saw your descriptor "excellent" I had to chime in. Still, good to see G starting and playing well overall.

grad_devil
12-29-2011, 03:56 PM
hey , does anyone have a new link that gives us the dukies in the nba totals each night...?

it used to be
http://huckleberry.mhc.edu/devilStats.html

that doesn't seem to work...

thx

Hi Guys!

I'm the one who wrote the script that keeps the Dukies in the NBA page going -- and I plan to do it again this year (same URL)! Long story short, my school has recently switched ISPs, and the NetAdmin is still configuring all of the firewall rules, one of which will open port 80 (HTTP traffic) to huckleberry.

We're on break currently, but staff returns next week; I hope that it's back up and running by the end of that week. I'll post again to let you all know!

Thanks,

grad_devil

dcdevil2009
12-29-2011, 11:31 PM
Elton was on Dan LeBatard's tv show a few days ago (12/26?) and admitted that he didn't have the same explosiveness as he did pre-injuries. All in all I thought it was a pretty interesting interview as Le Batard tends to focus more on personality and not necessarily sports related topics. In addition to Elton's injury history, Elton talked about his decision to go pro and the pseudo-controversy surrounding the reaction to it. Here (http://sports.espn.go.com/espnradio/podcast/archive?id=6962629) is a link to the podcast of the show.

theAlaskanBear
12-30-2011, 09:07 AM
NBA Rundown:

JJ Redick had 15 points on 6-11 shooting and added 3ast and 2reb in a Magic win.
Chris Duhon had 9 points, hitting three 3s and playing 28minutes as Jameer Nelson has been ineffective with injury.
Shelden Williams had 2 points and 5 boards in 16 minutes in the NJN loss to ORL.
Carlos Boozer had 16 points and 15rebs on 8-16 shooting in a Bulls win.
Luol Deng was 4-9 with 12pts 4asts and 6rebs.
Josh McRoberts had a well rounded game -- 10pts 6rebs 3st and 2bs.

Neither Nolan Smith nor Elliot Williams saw any PT for the Trailblazers as they only played 8 deep in the win.

SilkyJ
12-30-2011, 03:29 PM
NBA Rundown:

JJ Redick had 15 points on 6-11 shooting and added 3ast and 2reb in a Magic win.
Chris Duhon had 9 points, hitting three 3s and playing 28minutes as Jameer Nelson has been ineffective with injury.
Shelden Williams had 2 points and 5 boards in 16 minutes in the NJN loss to ORL.
Carlos Boozer had 16 points and 15rebs on 8-16 shooting in a Bulls win.
Luol Deng was 4-9 with 12pts 4asts and 6rebs.
Josh McRoberts had a well rounded game -- 10pts 6rebs 3st and 2bs.

Neither Nolan Smith nor Elliot Williams saw any PT for the Trailblazers as they only played 8 deep in the win.

I watched the Magic game and JJ played really well as did Duhon. They played a lot together, particularly after Jameer went down and he JJ hit a variety of shots including a couple layups on fastbreaks where he Duhon ran the 2v1 to perfection. The announcers were praising both of them, and had a lot of positive things to say about JJ.

Many people, myself included, often said JJ needed to get out of Orlando, but he has blossomed into an excellent player there.

(BTW for those who don't know, NBA league pass is usually free for the first week or two of the season so you can watch any/all of the games to catch our guys in action, just need to find the channels your provider puts those games on)

hq2
12-30-2011, 04:13 PM
Many people, myself included, often said JJ needed to get out of Orlando, but he has blossomed into an excellent player there.

Yes, the heavy comp at guard forced him to improve to a higher NBA level. Now, I think this coming year will be his best. Look for him to drop 15-20 per game
on 30 minutes a night this year.

_Gary
12-30-2011, 08:44 PM
Ugh. Kyrie blows what might be the easiest buzzer beater he will ever see in his career by missing a bunny layup after a great drive to the basket! Darn it! As the Cleveland announcer said, those are the times when legends are born and Kyrie missed out. While I'm sure he'll get more chances in his career (possibly in OT), that one really was a shame to miss because it came right at the buzzer and it was a relatively easy lefty layup.

theAlaskanBear
12-31-2011, 12:15 PM
Yesterdays rundown:

Deng had 19pts and 8reb, while Boozer had 10pts and 6reb in a Chicago win over the Clippers. I have to say, Hamilton makes them a much more balanced, and dangerous team because they have a second guard option after Rose. Defenders have to play more honest. Rose was more aggressive last night and had 16ast, one off his career high. Noah had his breakout game this year with 19pts.

Elton Brand had 12pts and 7reb in a PHI loss to UTAH.

Dunleavy had 13pts and 5reb in a MIL win.

Battier was 0-5 and had 3reb and 3stl in 23 minutes. He's in a terrible slump -- only shooting 10% -- but the Heat continue to win. LeBron went nuts again 34pts 10ast and 8reb in the win over MIN. Btw, I was a Rubio sceptic, but he is going to be a great PG.

Grant Hill scored 10 as the Suns picked up their first win against the Hornets. Lance Thomas played only 1:30 in the game and was statless. He is averaging only 2 minutes per game -- hopefully he will see some 5-10 minute games.

Shelden Williams was 2-2 with 4pts and 2reb in 8 minutes and the Nets lost to the Hawks.

Kyrie Irving had 20pts 4ast and 5reb in CLE loss to IND in OT. Dahntay Jones had 4pts in limited minutes.

Duhon had 2 points and Redick chipped in 11 in an ORL win over the CHA Jordans. Maggette had 20pts and 7reb and Gerald Henderson struggled shooting but had 8pts 5reb and 3ast. ORL has a pretty weak schedule the next few games -- I think you will continue to see them win with Nelson injured. Duhon/Turkoglu seem to be doing fine initiating the offense.

Acymetric
12-31-2011, 02:29 PM
Yesterdays rundown:

Deng had 19pts and 8reb, while Boozer had 10pts and 6reb in a Chicago win over the Clippers. I have to say, Hamilton makes them a much more balanced, and dangerous team because they have a second guard option after Rose. Defenders have to play more honest. Rose was more aggressive last night and had 16ast, one off his career high. Noah had his breakout game this year with 19pts.

Elton Brand had 12pts and 7reb in a PHI loss to UTAH.

Dunleavy had 13pts and 5reb in a MIL win.

Battier was 0-5 and had 3reb and 3stl in 23 minutes. He's in a terrible slump -- only shooting 10% -- but the Heat continue to win. LeBron went nuts again 34pts 10ast and 8reb in the win over MIN. Btw, I was a Rubio sceptic, but he is going to be a great PG.

Grant Hill scored 10 as the Suns picked up their first win against the Hornets. Lance Thomas played only 1:30 in the game and was statless. He is averaging only 2 minutes per game -- hopefully he will see some 5-10 minute games.

Shelden Williams was 2-2 with 4pts and 2reb in 8 minutes and the Nets lost to the Hawks.

Kyrie Irving had 20pts 4ast and 5reb in CLE loss to IND in OT. Dahntay Jones had 4pts in limited minutes.

Duhon had 2 points and Redick chipped in 11 in an ORL win over the CHA Jordans. Maggette had 20pts and 7reb and Gerald Henderson struggled shooting but had 8pts 5reb and 3ast. ORL has a pretty weak schedule the next few games -- I think you will continue to see them win with Nelson injured. Duhon/Turkoglu seem to be doing fine initiating the offense.

I didn't really like Battier going to the Heat from the beginning; he brings great intangibles but I just don't see a good place for him on this roster. Hopefully he gets going and can provide a spark for the Heat off the bench as the season progresses since in all fairness he pretty much just joined the team so he's probably still gelling and learning how to best fit in.

theAlaskanBear
12-31-2011, 04:01 PM
I didn't really like Battier going to the Heat from the beginning; he brings great intangibles but I just don't see a good place for him on this roster. Hopefully he gets going and can provide a spark for the Heat off the bench as the season progresses since in all fairness he pretty much just joined the team so he's probably still gelling and learning how to best fit in.

In fairness, Battier missed all of the preseason and is nursing a quad injury. He has been getting consistent minutes...so I don't think its an issue of "fit".

Duke05
01-01-2012, 07:48 PM
Got to watch much of the Magic and Cavs games tonight. Kyrie's still getting used to the pace of the NBA but had a solid game - 13pts and 4asts. He was occasionally out of control (4 turnovers, a couple of which were ugly), but generally did a good job setting up the offense. Not a lot of assists, but many of his passes led to assists.

In the Magic game, JJ played really well. He was a significant part of a 24-7 run to close the game (the Magic were down double-digits in the 4th qtr) - drawing a couple charges, hitting a ridiculous fadeaway falling out of bounds with the shot clock running out, and icing the game with a pair of free throws. The announcers were really positive on his play, both offensively and defensively. He ended up with 21pts in 34min (second-most on the team in both pts and min) and a +/- of +26 (highest on the team). Duhon didn't really stand out but got good minutes.

Acymetric
01-01-2012, 07:57 PM
Richardson hasn't exactly been setting the world on fire...any chance Redick challenges for the starting role at some point this season?

gcashwell
01-01-2012, 08:22 PM
I didn't really like Battier going to the Heat from the beginning; he brings great intangibles but I just don't see a good place for him on this roster. Hopefully he gets going and can provide a spark for the Heat off the bench as the season progresses since in all fairness he pretty much just joined the team so he's probably still gelling and learning how to best fit in.

I disagree. Battier is the coach this team needs. He is definitely a director on the defensive end of the court. He took three very important charges last night that got his teammates amped up, and really saved the game for them. Last year it seemed like the Heat were unable to stop big runs. Battier is the calming and cerebral presence that will allow them to do that.

Duke05
01-01-2012, 08:57 PM
Richardson hasn't exactly been setting the world on fire...any chance Redick challenges for the starting role at some point this season?

An interesting question. There are probably others here who follow the Magic more closely than I do, but JJ's 24.05 PER compares quite well with JRich's 9.05, in only 7 fewer min/gm. And while I don't expect JRich to continue playing so poorly, SVG certainly stuck with JJ through most of the second half (including the late rally). We'll see if this turns into a pattern...

mike88
01-01-2012, 08:59 PM
Richardson hasn't exactly been setting the world on fire...any chance Redick challenges for the starting role at some point this season?

The Magic need JJ's scoring with the second unit early in the game, so I think J Rich will continue to start for now, but I think we may see JJ in the line-up more in the 4th quarter like tonight, especially if he keeps up the energy on the defensive end- the Magic seem to play much better on both ends of the floor with him in the game.

sagegrouse
01-01-2012, 09:02 PM
The Magic need JJ's scoring with the second unit early in the game, so I think J Rich will continue to start for now, but I think we may see JJ in the line-up more in the 4th quarter like tonight, especially if he keeps up the energy on the defensive end- the Magic seem to play much better on both ends of the floor with him in the game.

JJ was +26 in a six-point game and scored 21 points. Seems like a statement game. - sage

BattierD12
01-01-2012, 10:25 PM
It's kind of like with Coach K, where it's not who starts that's important, but with who finishes games that is telling. Based on the magic personnel, I'd say it's a safe bet JJ gets a ton of PT in the 4th quarter. It could be like today's game, where JJ finishes in place on Jason Richardson, or you could have a lineup of Turk/JJ/J-Rich/Anderson/Dwight and use Turk's ability to distribute the ball in place of Jameer (like the 2009 playoffs against Boston and Cleveland). JJ is clearly the 3rd and 4th best player on the team so far this year, and his ability to hit shots and free throws down the stretch has made him one of SVG's primary options compared to years past.

hq2
01-02-2012, 10:39 AM
JJ was +26 in a six-point game and scored 21 points. Seems like a statement game. - sage

Agreed. This could be his best year all time. And let's give him credit; he didn't give up. He hung tough his first
couple of years, kept working, and kept improving. And check out the kind of shape he's in; every square inch,
tight muscle. He has earned his P.T., and hopefully a place in the NBA upper echelon of players.

theAlaskanBear
01-02-2012, 03:23 PM
Trouble ahead for Demarcus Cousins:

http://www.nba.com/2012/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/01/02/kings-cousins/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1

Always hate to see talent derailed by immaturity, personal issues, or drugs. Even though Cousins is a UK enemy I hope he can pull his act together and contribute to his team. Of course, there were plenty of red flags in the draft, which is why he fell all the way to Sacramento.

House G
01-02-2012, 06:55 PM
Agreed. This could be his best year all time. And let's give him credit; he didn't give up. He hung tough his first
couple of years, kept working, and kept improving. And check out the kind of shape he's in; every square inch,
tight muscle. He has earned his P.T., and hopefully a place in the NBA upper echelon of players.

Going into the Pistons game on 1/2/12:

Last Season This Season
POINTS 10.1 15.0
FIELD GOALS 44.1% 55.8%
3-POINT FGS 39.7% 50.0%
PLUS/MINUS +1.7 +6.8

Stan Van Gundy (talking about JJ): "Smart and tough and skilled is a pretty good combination". It's nice to see Van Gundy figured out what many of us already knew.

sagegrouse
01-03-2012, 12:22 AM
Going into the Pistons game on 1/2/12:


Last Season This Season
POINTS 10.1 15.0
FIELD GOALS 44.1% 55.8%
3-POINT FGS 39.7% 50.0%
PLUS/MINUS +1.7 +6.8

Stan Van Gundy (talking about JJ): "Smart and tough and skilled is a pretty good combination". It's nice to see Van Gundy figured out what many of us already knew.

Good going, JJ, even though tonight in Detroit was not as good. - sage

theAlaskanBear
01-03-2012, 04:40 PM
Here's a NBA.com article on Boozer:

http://www.nba.com/2012/news/features/steve_aschburner/01/03/bulls-carlos-boozer/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1

Last night Battier had a "break-out" game in the Heat loss. He was 3-4 from 3 and finished with 11pts 2reb 2ast in 25 minutes.

Grant Hill had 8pts and 8 boards.
Dahntay scored 11pts on 5-6 shooting.
Shelden Williams saw 22 minutes but was only 1-9 from the field with 6 boards.
Redick scored 8 points on 3-10 shooting but racked up 4ast.
Duhon had an efficient game with 8pts 3reb 3ast in just 17minutes on 2-2 shooting and going 2-2 from the line.

Highlander
01-03-2012, 08:38 PM
Nice line for Kyrie tonight vs. the Bobcats:

8-10 FG, 2-2 from 3pt, 2-2 from FT, 6 assists, 0 turnovers, 2 blocks, and 20 points in 21 min. Oh and he was +15 in a 115-101 win.

nmduke2001
01-03-2012, 09:06 PM
Nice line for Kyrie tonight vs. the Bobcats:

8-10 FG, 2-2 from 3pt, 2-2 from FT, 6 assists, 0 turnovers, 2 blocks, and 20 points in 21 min. Oh and he was +15 in a 115-101 win.

Kyrie completely dominated. He was unguardable. On several occasions he left multiple Bobcat defenders falling over themselves as he was laying it up.

It would be unfair if he was stil wearing a Duke uniform. Fun, but unfair.

gwlaw99
01-03-2012, 11:27 PM
Anyone have an idea if we will see Nolan get some playing time this year?

basket1544
01-04-2012, 07:07 AM
Nolan received a DNP last night. I think there's just too many guards on that Portland team.
Kyrie was #1 and 2 on the Top 10 plays for SportsCenter. Man, he and Austin together would have been insane.

CameronBornAndBred
01-04-2012, 08:11 AM
Nolan received a DNP last night. I think there's just too many guards on that Portland team.
Kyrie was #1 and 2 on the Top 10 plays for SportsCenter. Man, he and Austin together would have been insane.
There were 4 left sitting on the bench for Portland, including E-Will. In fact, the Trail Blazers coach has consistently sat 4 or 5 players per game, he seems like to a short bench much like K. I don't know much about their other players, whether they are any good or injured, but the number of DNP's does stand out.

sagegrouse
01-04-2012, 08:40 AM
Sat against Houston -- apparently a toe injury, according to the basketball-reference.com web site.

sagegrouse

shoutingncu
01-04-2012, 10:04 AM
Hadn't seen this and I suppose this is as good a place as any:

2244

From the article:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Photo-Shelden-Williams-dunks-the-ball-into-his-?urn=nba-wp12751

Jderf
01-04-2012, 10:12 AM
Hadn't seen this and I suppose this is as good a place as any:

2244

From the article:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Photo-Shelden-Williams-dunks-the-ball-into-his-?urn=nba-wp12751

82-50.

juise
01-04-2012, 10:20 AM
82-50.

And...
2245

CameronBornAndBred
01-04-2012, 10:27 AM
Hadn't seen this and I suppose this is as good a place as any:

2244

From the article:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Photo-Shelden-Williams-dunks-the-ball-into-his-?urn=nba-wp12751
Well it still went in the basket and got him 2 points. And while they were his only 2 points (1-9 shooting..bleah) he started that game and played 23 minutes.

porkpa
01-04-2012, 02:31 PM
Kyrie appears to be doing a great job. On this morning's Sportscenter Top Ten Highlights from last night's play, he got highlight number two for a great defensive stop and highlight number one for a terrific move to the basket and an ensuing bucket. Its not too often, if ever I've seen this done by a rookie.

millerecu
01-04-2012, 03:19 PM
I have been looking for it on the internet all day....anyone know where to watch today's top 10?

moonpie23
01-04-2012, 03:25 PM
the video on the boxscore page from the game last night hardly mentions kyrie.......any other link?

theAlaskanBear
01-04-2012, 04:00 PM
There were 4 left sitting on the bench for Portland, including E-Will. In fact, the Trail Blazers coach has consistently sat 4 or 5 players per game, he seems like to a short bench much like K. I don't know much about their other players, whether they are any good or injured, but the number of DNP's does stand out.

I was going to mention this as well, but you beat me to it. With the condensed schedule you would have thought that coaches will be going with deeper benches...but Portland is 4-1 so I am not going to question it. Jamal Crawford, Ray Felton, and Wesley Matthews is a pretty good guard combo.

Acymetric
01-04-2012, 05:18 PM
Shelden is also tied for 8th among power forwards in blocks per game and is 2nd in blocks per 48 minutes among power forwards (8th overall). Looks like he is starting to at least translate that part of his game to the NBA.

superdave
01-05-2012, 08:55 AM
WindhorstESPN Brian Windhorst
Whoa, just noticed Tyler Hansbrough had a -43 plus/minus last night for Pacers. It's circumstantial but still...
58 minutes ago

Billy Dat
01-05-2012, 09:00 AM
After suffering through the Temple game, I decided that I was in such a bad mood I might as well tune in to the end of the Knicks/Bobcats game (I am a Knicks fan) which the ESPN2 ticker showed me was headed for a Bobcats victory at MSG...when they were on the second night of a back-to-back and the Knicks were at full strength coming off a days rest...but I digress. The only bright spot of a night of sad hoop fandom was watching G tear it up. 24 points on 10-13 shooting in 38 minutes. Somehow he wound up negative on the plus minus, but he had it all working. Plus, I have to eat a little crow. A few weeks back I was trashing BJ Mullens of Ohio State as an example of how their hyped recent center recruits have had little success in the L. Mullens put up 16 and 5 against the Knicks last night in 20 minutes. Plus, the other Ohio State big I was trashing, Kosta Koufos, has been starting the last few games for the Nuggets and doing pretty well (Karl is playing an odd two center line-up with Koufos and Timofey Mosgov). Both those guys are only 22. I hope Tony Parker isn't paying attention. As a popular ESPN scribe likes to say - I will now light myself on fire.

jimsumner
01-05-2012, 10:31 AM
Nice to see Shelden (8 and 9) and Brand (12 and 12) have solid games/

CameronBornAndBred
01-06-2012, 07:26 AM
Another DNP for both Elliot Williams and Nolan last night. I looked to see if the bench once again had 4 permanent members, and noticed that for this game there were only 3. Then I realized that's because Luke Babbitt wasn't on the bench at all, Portland shipped him down to the D-League along with Armon Johnson.


NBA teams are allowed to activate 13 players per game until Feb. 6, a temporary measure the league instituted to help teams deal with the shortened, compacted season. Sending Babbitt and Johnson to Idaho leaves them with 12 healthy players and Greg Oden.

So they now have 13 players, 12 of them healthy, and they only play 9.

theAlaskanBear
01-06-2012, 10:52 AM
After suffering through the Temple game, I decided that I was in such a bad mood I might as well tune in to the end of the Knicks/Bobcats game (I am a Knicks fan) which the ESPN2 ticker showed me was headed for a Bobcats victory at MSG...when they were on the second night of a back-to-back and the Knicks were at full strength coming off a days rest...but I digress. The only bright spot of a night of sad hoop fandom was watching G tear it up. 24 points on 10-13 shooting in 38 minutes. Somehow he wound up negative on the plus minus, but he had it all working. Plus, I have to eat a little crow. A few weeks back I was trashing BJ Mullens of Ohio State as an example of how their hyped recent center recruits have had little success in the L. Mullens put up 16 and 5 against the Knicks last night in 20 minutes. Plus, the other Ohio State big I was trashing, Kosta Koufos, has been starting the last few games for the Nuggets and doing pretty well (Karl is playing an odd two center line-up with Koufos and Timofey Mosgov). Both those guys are only 22. I hope Tony Parker isn't paying attention. As a popular ESPN scribe likes to say - I will now light myself on fire.

D'antoni is a dead man walking in NYC. He is a system coach and was brought in with Walsh to build through the draft and implement his system, but as soon as Walsh left it was back to Dolan-in-charge who will run the Knicks back into the ground. Walsh cleaned out the house, and D'Antoni showed great improvement last year (going from 29 wins to 42).

The D'Antoni system requires a team full of good shooters, big men who can stretch the floor, and a guards who can push tempo. Walsh started to build that way in the draft with guys like Gallinari, etc, but the Carmelo trade gutted the team. Now you have two players (Carmelo and Amare) who don't play uptempo ball -- Melo needs the ball in his hand, and is a volume scorer, not a good shooter. They are also both terrible defenders. So then they add Tyson Chandler -- which was not a good deal because he doesn't bring any positives to the offense. Tyson and Amare will get in each others way -- they are both low block scorers. The biggest crime though it the lack of good guards. Douglas can develop into a good PG -- but he is not the PG you need to fast break. Complete opposite of teh Nash/Barbossa tandem in PHX.

NYK are now a slow, half-court, jump shooting team that sucks defensively and has no depth. Sorry Billy Dat -- black days ahead -- I started rooting for the Knicks after they cleaned house and seemed to commit to Walsh/D"Antoni. But Dolan is a two-faced control freak who makes idiotic basketball decisions and the Knicks will never do anything as long as he is the owner.

theAlaskanBear
01-06-2012, 11:05 AM
The only Duke in action last night was Shane Battier. He played great last night in a triple-OT thriller. He only had 9 points but played a team high 49:09 minutes and blocked Joe Johnson's shot to send it to the third OT. Second highest +/-.

COYS
01-06-2012, 11:09 AM
NYK are now a slow, half-court, jump shooting team that sucks defensively and has no depth. Sorry Billy Dat -- black days ahead -- I started rooting for the Knicks after they cleaned house and seemed to commit to Walsh/D"Antoni. But Dolan is a two-faced control freak who makes idiotic basketball decisions and the Knicks will never do anything as long as he is the owner.

This is so true and so sad. I'm a Hawks fan, but I loved watching D'Antoni's Suns teams and the seven seconds or less offense. People point to those run n' gun teams as an example of why fast paced teams can't win a title, but people also don't realize how unlucky those teams were. In '05 the team hadn't quite peaked and they weren't ready to take on the Spurs in the conference finals with Parker, Ginobli, and Duncan all in their primes. In '07, however, I have no doubt that they would have beaten the Cavs in the Finals, and they had a great chance (I would even say they would have been favored) to be there if not for the controversial suspensions that cost them Game 5 and Nash's freak nose-bleed accident that forced him out late in the 4th with the score tied in game 1 (the Spurs went on to beat the Nash-less Suns). Believing (fallaciously, in my opinion) that the run n' gun style could not win in the playoffs, the Suns management completely altered the makeup of the team, adding a serious anchor to the roster in Shaq. They never regained their mojo and D'Antoni was sent out to pasture.

In NYC, D'Antoni had a second chance to prove his system can work (which I'm convinced it can with the right personnel). However, Dolan is yet again sticking his nose in where it doesn't belong and D'Antoni's fate looks to be sealed by management's strange decisions without his ever getting the chance to show his true colors. I wonder how much he regrets not accepting the Chicago job. Remember, he decided on the Knicks days before Chicago won the lottery and D Rose.

Faison1
01-07-2012, 07:11 AM
My apologies for not going through the entire thread, but isn't Josh McRoberts on the Lakers? I did not see him in last nights box score.

On an aside, I must say it's pretty nice to go through the majority of the box scores and see Dukies on the rosters. I'm sure someone has counted, but we must be up to 16 or so.

sagegrouse
01-07-2012, 07:39 AM
My apologies for not going through the entire thread, but isn't Josh McRoberts on the Lakers? I did not see him in last nights box score.

On an aside, I must say it's pretty nice to go through the majority of the box scores and see Dukies on the rosters. I'm sure someone has counted, but we must be up to 16 or so.

Josh had a toe injury, as of the previous game. Presumably it is still an issue. -- sage

theAlaskanBear
01-07-2012, 07:45 AM
My apologies for not going through the entire thread, but isn't Josh McRoberts on the Lakers? I did not see him in last nights box score.

On an aside, I must say it's pretty nice to go through the majority of the box scores and see Dukies on the rosters. I'm sure someone has counted, but we must be up to 16 or so.

Josh McRoberts had a big toe sprain and a thumb sprain...with the active rosters shrinking they probably deactivated him or placed him on IR. They can only carry around 13 dressed players atm. I would expect him to be back within a week or so.

edit: (Sagegrouse beat me to it -- whats that saying about the early bird?)

MCFinARL
01-07-2012, 08:32 AM
My apologies for not going through the entire thread, but isn't Josh McRoberts on the Lakers? I did not see him in last nights box score.

On an aside, I must say it's pretty nice to go through the majority of the box scores and see Dukies on the rosters. I'm sure someone has counted, but we must be up to 16 or so.

Duke had 16 players on opening day rosters, but I think it is probably 15 now since Lance Thomas was cut.

Indoor66
01-07-2012, 09:38 AM
(Sagegrouse beat me to it -- whats that saying about the early bird?)

The early bird is always a Sage Grouse.

InSpades
01-09-2012, 04:49 PM
I may have been the only person paying attention (needed 1 more rebound to win my fantasy basketball rebound matchup!) but I couldn't help but notice the end of the Cavs vs. Trailblazers game last night contained no less than 3 Dukies on the floor at the same time! Kyrie was still in the game for the Cavs and Elliot and Nolan were both getting some garbage time play for the Trailblazers. Great to see Nolan and Elliot both get a bit of run and they both hit shots down the stretch. They both appear to have gotten extended playing time in a blowout loss to Phoenix as well (though I missed that one).

I guess seeing 3 Duke guys on the court at the same time isn't so uncommon nowadays w/ Loul and Carlos both on the Bulls but it was still cool to see! Lots of Duke players in the NBA having solid years so far.

Edit: I guess there's Duhon and JJ on the Magic as well for multiple Dukies on the same team :).

jimsumner
01-09-2012, 05:14 PM
I may have been the only person paying attention (needed 1 more rebound to win my fantasy basketball rebound matchup!) but I couldn't help but notice the end of the Cavs vs. Trailblazers game last night contained no less than 3 Dukies on the floor at the same time! Kyrie was still in the game for the Cavs and Elliot and Nolan were both getting some garbage time play for the Trailblazers. Great to see Nolan and Elliot both get a bit of run and they both hit shots down the stretch. They both appear to have gotten extended playing time in a blowout loss to Phoenix as well (though I missed that one).

I guess seeing 3 Duke guys on the court at the same time isn't so uncommon nowadays w/ Loul and Carlos both on the Bulls but it was still cool to see! Lots of Duke players in the NBA having solid years so far.

Edit: I guess there's Duhon and JJ on the Magic as well for multiple Dukies on the same team :).

The Pacers had Mike Dunleavy, Josh McRoberts and Dahntay Jones on their roster last season.

The Clippers have had three former Duke players on the roster a few times over the year, some combination of Brand, Maggette, Parks and Ewing, IIRC.

Remember the old "Duke doesn't produce NBA" players cliche? Don't hear that one much anymore.

There's also a very, very good chance that someone from Duke will be playing in the NBA finals this season. Almost every contender has a former Blue Devil. Miami has Battier, Chicago has Boozer and Deng, Orlando has Redick and Duhon, the Sixers have Brand, Indiana has Jones. I guess Atlanta is the holdout, maybe the Knicks, or the Celts for those who think they aren't too old.

Still, that's a pretty good representation at the top of the East.

SilkyJ
01-09-2012, 07:11 PM
There's also a very, very good chance that someone from Duke will be playing in the NBA finals this season. Almost every contender has a former Blue Devil. Miami has Battier, Chicago has Boozer and Deng, Orlando has Redick and Duhon, the Sixers have Brand, Indiana has Jones. I guess Atlanta is the holdout, maybe the Knicks, or the Celts for those who think they aren't too old.

Still, that's a pretty good representation at the top of the East.

As far as contenders from the West go, don't forget McBob on the Lakers and we obviously just discussed Nolan and E-will on Portland, which, despite losing Roy, is none to shabby with a starting 5 of Felton, Matthews, Gerald Wallace, Aldridge, and Camby. Not to mention Jamal Crawford coming off the bench.

jimsumner
01-09-2012, 07:17 PM
As far as contenders from the West go, don't forget McBob on the Lakers and we obviously just discussed Nolan and E-will on Portland, which, despite losing Roy, is none to shabby with a starting 5 of Felton, Matthews, Gerald Wallace, Aldridge, and Camby. Not to mention Jamal Crawford coming off the bench.

You implicitly raised an interesting point. Do we consider Elliott Williams a former Duke player, at least in the sense of Battier or Boozer?

Acymetric
01-09-2012, 07:22 PM
You implicitly raised an interesting point. Do we consider Elliott Williams a former Duke player, at least in the sense of Battier or Boozer?

I certainly do. He played for us as a freshman and at times played pretty well, represented Duke like we would hope a young player would, and although he left for another school he did it by all accounts on good terms. I obviously never got a sense of connection with him like I did with Nolan, Kyle, Lance, or Zoubs (to name a few recent 4 year guys) but that is the case with any early departure regardless of why they left or where they went. I am pulling for Elliot in the NBA and consider him a part of the Duke family for my purposes.

I think the only real question is whether he still thinks of himself as a former Duke player with ties to the school or not, and of course I have no idea.

duke09hms
01-09-2012, 07:37 PM
I think the only real question is whether he still thinks of himself as a former Duke player with ties to the school or not, and of course I have no idea.

For what it's worth, his education and primary network on facebook is still Duke and doesn't even list Memphis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZY5HmRV8oo

UrinalCake
01-09-2012, 08:54 PM
Indiana has Jones.

Why aren't we calling him Indiana Jones! Can't believe I never caught that...

Regarding D'Antoni and the Suns... I'd highly recommended the Seven Seconds or Less book that came out a few years ago. It contains some great behind-the-scenes stories from within the NBA, reveals how difficult being a head coach really is (even in the NBA, where people often think they just roll the ball out and play) and it humanizes these guys that we worship so much.

SilkyJ
01-10-2012, 07:39 AM
You implicitly raised an interesting point. Do we consider Elliott Williams a former Duke player, at least in the sense of Battier or Boozer?

Normally with someone who transfers away, like say Jamal, Boateng, or Olek, I would say no. No ill-will towards them (in fact I rooted for Jamal at Cal when I was in SF), but they chose to leave and not be a part of the family. Elliott didn't have a choice. When your mother is sick and may not have much time left, going back home is hardly a choice.

So, to answer your question: yes, I certainly consider Elliott a part of the Duke family, same as I would Luol and Kyrie, who also played one year. (I would argue Kyrie was in a similar situation: is being the #1 draft pick really or returning to school much of a choice? I'd say not really...) Tough to compare them to a player like Battier who played all 4 years, embodied the team first, defensive minded approach that defines Duke, but yes, I consider all 3 very much a part of the family.

superdave
01-10-2012, 08:20 AM
Carlos had 23 and 8 last night. He seems to be playing himself into shape right now after a slow start, an unfortunate commonality among NBA veterans.

For the year he is at 15 and 8 in 29 minutes per game.

jimsumner
01-10-2012, 12:30 PM
Normally with someone who transfers away, like say Jamal, Boateng, or Olek, I would say no. No ill-will towards them (in fact I rooted for Jamal at Cal when I was in SF), but they chose to leave and not be a part of the family. Elliott didn't have a choice. When your mother is sick and may not have much time left, going back home is hardly a choice.

So, to answer your question: yes, I certainly consider Elliott a part of the Duke family, same as I would Luol and Kyrie, who also played one year. (I would argue Kyrie was in a similar situation: is being the #1 draft pick really or returning to school much of a choice? I'd say not really...) Tough to compare them to a player like Battier who played all 4 years, embodied the team first, defensive minded approach that defines Duke, but yes, I consider all 3 very much a part of the family.

FWIW, the Duke Media Guide does not list Elliott Williams among the list of former Duke players in the NBA.

Neither does the ACC Media Guide.

Matches
01-10-2012, 01:16 PM
There's also a very, very good chance that someone from Duke will be playing in the NBA finals this season. Almost every contender has a former Blue Devil. Miami has Battier, Chicago has Boozer and Deng, Orlando has Redick and Duhon, the Sixers have Brand, Indiana has Jones. I guess Atlanta is the holdout, maybe the Knicks, or the Celts for those who think they aren't too old.

Still, that's a pretty good representation at the top of the East.

I think there's a decent chance that, if Dwight Howard gets traded to LA, JJ will go along with him (where of course he'd join McRoberts). Grant Hill seems to me like a candidate to get traded to a contender at the deadline as well.

SilkyJ
01-10-2012, 03:19 PM
FWIW, the Duke Media Guide does not list Elliott Williams among the list of former Duke players in the NBA.

Neither does the ACC Media Guide.

Interesting. Is there a reason behind that beyond a simple "rule" that any transfer is not typically included? More to the story than we know? Pray-tell if so!

(BTW, do you consider Elliott amongst the Duke family in the NBA?)

SilkyJ
01-10-2012, 03:26 PM
I think there's a decent chance that, if Dwight Howard gets traded to LA, JJ will go along with him (where of course he'd join McRoberts). Grant Hill seems to me like a candidate to get traded to a contender at the deadline as well.

I do not know if Grant's contract has a no-trade clause in it, but Grant and his family are very happy in PHX and I think his family has played a part in why he has decided to stay there on several occasions: he originally signed in '07, then picked up his player option in '08, resigned with the team in '09, picked up his player option for '10, then resigned in '11.

Perhaps equally important, PHX likes Grant: on both resignings, PHX increased its original offer to match outside interest. Clearly there is a strong mutual attraction there.

That said, he has garnered significant interest during his last two stints in free agency, and I could see him as a valuable asset to a contender (and has an expiring contract no less).

sagegrouse
01-10-2012, 03:37 PM
I do not know if Grant's contract has a no-trade clause in it, but Grant and his family are very happy in PHX and I think his family has played a part in why he has decided to stay there on several occasions: he originally signed in '07, then picked up his player option in '08, resigned with the team in '09, picked up his player option for '10, then resigned in '11.

Perhaps equally important, PHX likes Grant: on both resignings, PHX increased its original offer to match outside interest. Clearly there is a strong mutual attraction there.

That said, he has garnered significant interest during his last two stints in free agency, and I could see him as a valuable asset to a contender (and has an expiring contract no less).

Phoenix ownership has made it clear that Grant has a job in the organization after his playing days are over. I doubt that he would be traded.

sage

jv001
01-10-2012, 03:42 PM
I do not know if Grant's contract has a no-trade clause in it, but Grant and his family are very happy in PHX and I think his family has played a part in why he has decided to stay there on several occasions: he originally signed in '07, then picked up his player option in '08, resigned with the team in '09, picked up his player option for '10, then resigned in '11.

Perhaps equally important, PHX likes Grant: on both resignings, PHX increased its original offer to match outside interest. Clearly there is a strong mutual attraction there.

That said, he has garnered significant interest during his last two stints in free agency, and I could see him as a valuable asset to a contender (and has an expiring contract no less).

What ever team Grant plays for, I'ill follow him. He has the qualities that make him one of my all time favorite Duke players. I sure loved him in the Royal Blue. GoDuke!

CameronBornAndBred
01-11-2012, 07:17 AM
FWIW, the Duke Media Guide does not list Elliott Williams among the list of former Duke players in the NBA.

Neither does the ACC Media Guide.
I wouldn't expect them to since he is not a Duke graduate. Since he went to another school first before the NBA, the NBA will list Memphis as his university.

I still consider him part of the Duke basketball family though.

jipops
01-11-2012, 08:39 AM
What ever team Grant plays for, I'ill follow him. He has the qualities that make him one of my all time favorite Duke players. I sure loved him in the Royal Blue. GoDuke!

I love Grant as well. But might as well point out that he was absolutely abused and torched by Kobe last night who dropped 48 on him. Grant didn't fare too well going 1-12. He has done well guarding Kobe in the past but maybe age has caught up to him on the defensive end. Kobe looked like a young buck again out there.

superdave
01-11-2012, 12:38 PM
RE: Kyrie

I thought this was interesting (http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/42037)

Evan (St. Paul)
Is the Rookie of the year Rubio's to lose?

Chad Ford
(1:32 PM)
At this point yes. Weird fact. If Rubio wins ROY, he'll be the third player from the draft class of 2009 to do. That's got to be some sort of record. Tyreke Evans in 2010, Blake Griffin in 2011, Ricky Rubio in 2012.

MChambers
01-11-2012, 02:00 PM
RE: Kyrie

I thought this was interesting (http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/42037)

Evan (St. Paul)
Is the Rookie of the year Rubio's to lose?

Chad Ford
(1:32 PM)
At this point yes. Weird fact. If Rubio wins ROY, he'll be the third player from the draft class of 2009 to do. That's got to be some sort of record. Tyreke Evans in 2010, Blake Griffin in 2011, Ricky Rubio in 2012.
Agreed. Seems to me that it's a lot closer than Ford thinks, looking at the stats and also considering the quality of the teammates. And I know who I would rather have, if I was a GM.

gwlaw99
01-11-2012, 02:21 PM
In anyone is interested, here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-Ty4l4QglQ)is a good highlight reel of Kyrie against Charlotte. His drive at 2:25 is simply amazing.

zoroaster
01-12-2012, 05:58 AM
Here's a good writeup of Kyrie and Grant in advance of their meeting this evening (Cavaliers vs Suns):

Suns veteran Grant Hill, Cavaliers rookie Kyrie Irving bookend the career lifespan of NBA players
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2012/01/12/20120112phoenix-suns-grant-hill-cleveland-cavaliers-kyrie-irving.html

CameronBornAndBred
01-12-2012, 07:40 AM
Nice...JJ led scoring for the Magic last night with 17, his 4 free throws down the stretch helped seal the win. JJ logged 27 minutes, Duhon had 3 pts in 16. Neither Nolan nor Elliot Williams got off the bench in the same game.

Dr. Rosenrosen
01-12-2012, 08:05 AM
In anyone is interested, here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-Ty4l4QglQ)is a good highlight reel of Kyrie against Charlotte. His drive at 2:25 is simply amazing.

Mind blowing actually! The hesitations and crossovers are so naturally effortless for him.

jv001
01-12-2012, 08:15 AM
Mind blowing actually! The hesitations and crossovers are so naturally effortless for him.

As a Duke freshman, Kyrie demonstrated those same hesitations and crossovers, but more importantly he showed that he could finish at the rim. Man, I wish I could have seen a healthy Kyrie for the entire season. GoDuke!

Indoor66
01-12-2012, 12:07 PM
Kyrie ranks #1 in my "Oh, what might have been" list for Duke players.

superdave
01-12-2012, 03:28 PM
Via Espn

What to do with Boozer and Noah
12:52PM ET
Chicago Bulls

Top
Email
Comments

During last season's playoffs, Bulls coach Tom Thibodeau often elected to sit his starting frontcourt of Joakim Noah and Carlos Boozer in the fourth quarter of tight games in favor of the defense of Taj Gibson and Omer Asik.

And now 12 games into the 2011-12 season, that theme has continued, as Noah and Boozer have sat in the fourth at times. And it appears it's not just their D that's keeping them on the pine, as ESPN's John Hollinger notes in his Thursday chat.

From Hollinger, a possible solution to this growing concern in Chicago:

ESPN's John Hollinger

With Noah-Boozer chemistry an issue, Boozer may need to become sixth man for Bulls

"it's getting to be an issue. Boozer and Noah, for whatever reason, have never meshed as a frontcourt tandem. On paper it looks good; on the court it's a mess. Thibs may need to start Gibson, use Boozer as a sixth man and get Booz and Noah the bulk of their minutes away from each other. Using Boozer this way might have the secondary effect of preventing him from killing Luol Deng by playing him with both the starters and the second unit and resting him for 20 seconds each half."

SilkyJ
01-12-2012, 06:01 PM
Via Espn

What to do with Boozer and Noah
12:52PM ET
Chicago Bulls

Top
Email
Comments

During last season's playoffs, Bulls coach Tom Thibodeau often elected to sit his starting frontcourt of Joakim Noah and Carlos Boozer in the fourth quarter of tight games in favor of the defense of Taj Gibson and Omer Asik.

And now 12 games into the 2011-12 season, that theme has continued, as Noah and Boozer have sat in the fourth at times. And it appears it's not just their D that's keeping them on the pine, as ESPN's John Hollinger notes in his Thursday chat.

From Hollinger, a possible solution to this growing concern in Chicago:

ESPN's John Hollinger

With Noah-Boozer chemistry an issue, Boozer may need to become sixth man for Bulls

"it's getting to be an issue. Boozer and Noah, for whatever reason, have never meshed as a frontcourt tandem. On paper it looks good; on the court it's a mess. Thibs may need to start Gibson, use Boozer as a sixth man and get Booz and Noah the bulk of their minutes away from each other. Using Boozer this way might have the secondary effect of preventing him from killing Luol Deng by playing him with both the starters and the second unit and resting him for 20 seconds each half."

Hm, thanks for sharing. Didn't realize this was an issue. Is it "on-court chemistry" in that they just can't seem to get on the same page or is it an issue where they don't like each other or at least don't like playing with each other.

I also thought defense was Noah's specialty?

_Gary
01-12-2012, 08:08 PM
Kyrie ranks #1 in my "Oh, what might have been" list for Duke players.

You and me, both! I think he's already showing that he'll challenge for greatest Dukie of all time in the NBA. I know it's early, but he's got all the skills to be a very, very special pro.

Greg_Newton
01-13-2012, 01:04 AM
G with huge dunks in back to back games now:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY2DK7Rhtqg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND6qyPavTFM

COYS
01-13-2012, 09:34 AM
You and me, both! I think he's already showing that he'll challenge for greatest Dukie of all time in the NBA. I know it's early, but he's got all the skills to be a very, very special pro.

He's just gotta cut down on his turnovers, which is usually the easiest thing for rookies to improve as they gain more experience. In all honesty, his turnovers are one of the only things preventing him from being one of the most efficient point guards THIS year. While Rubio's assist rate has been impressive and flashy, I'm not sure why Kyrie's not getting more love for top rookie. Rubio actually has guys to pass to and has far more talent surrounding him. However, Kyrie has probably slightly outplayed him so far.

MChambers
01-13-2012, 09:56 AM
He's just gotta cut down on his turnovers, which is usually the easiest thing for rookies to improve as they gain more experience. In all honesty, his turnovers are one of the only things preventing him from being one of the most efficient point guards THIS year. While Rubio's assist rate has been impressive and flashy, I'm not sure why Kyrie's not getting more love for top rookie. Rubio actually has guys to pass to and has far more talent surrounding him. However, Kyrie has probably slightly outplayed him so far.
In the lead up to last year's draft, I kept reading that Kyrie wasn't as talented as John Wall, and I kept thinking that I'd rather have Kyrie. Wall has physical skills that Kyrie doesn't have, but Kyrie can do things that Wall can't, too. And I think Kyrie's far more likely to be a winner.

flyingdutchdevil
01-13-2012, 09:59 AM
He's just gotta cut down on his turnovers, which is usually the easiest thing for rookies to improve as they gain more experience. In all honesty, his turnovers are one of the only things preventing him from being one of the most efficient point guards THIS year. While Rubio's assist rate has been impressive and flashy, I'm not sure why Kyrie's not getting more love for top rookie. Rubio actually has guys to pass to and has far more talent surrounding him. However, Kyrie has probably slightly outplayed him so far.

Because Rubio had the doubters and has surpassed expectations 5-fold. Kyrie is a better player now and may always be a better player, but sportswriters love the unexpected. And Rubio's ridiculous passing is definitely unexpected.

Like Coach K, I am definitely a Rubio fan.

COYS
01-13-2012, 10:01 AM
In the lead up to last year's draft, I kept reading that Kyrie wasn't as talented as John Wall, and I kept thinking that I'd rather have Kyrie. Wall has physical skills that Kyrie doesn't have, but Kyrie can do things that Wall can't, too. And I think Kyrie's far more likely to be a winner.

Agree with you here. Everyone kept saying that Kyrie doesn't have the athleticism or Rose, Westbrook, or Wall, which is true, and that that lack of ridiculous physical ability would prevent him from getting to the super star tier. What everyone seemed to forget, however, is that Kyrie is more similar to Chris Paul than to any of those three and Chris Paul is better than all those three (sadly, his knees may not allow him to continue to prove it). Kyrie might not be quite as quick as Paul, but he is even more deceptive. Also, his shot is significantly further along than Paul's was during his rookie season (even though Paul had an amazing rookie year that Kyrie would be lucky to duplicate). If the Cavs are smart about building around Kyrie, they have the foundation for a contender. My biggest concern is that the Cavs won't be smart with their personnel decisions, but time will tell.

SilkyJ
01-13-2012, 11:23 AM
Wall has physical skills that Kyrie doesn't have, but Kyrie can do things that Wall can't, too.

Yea, like shoot! A fairly important asset in basketball. (Wall is shooting 34% from the floor, Kyrie is shooting 47% including 37% from 3. Those are very good numbers for any guard, and for a rookie those are phenomenal shooting numbers.) My guess is Kyrie is an all-star before Wall.


While Rubio's assist rate has been impressive and flashy, I'm not sure why Kyrie's not getting more love for top rookie. Rubio actually has guys to pass to and has far more talent surrounding him. However, Kyrie has probably slightly outplayed him so far.

Hollinger has Irving as the #1 rookie so far (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/PERDiem-120112/nba-rookie-year-race), so he's at least getting some love! (premium ESPN article, sorry if you're not a subscriber)

His prediction for the top 5 (based on how they are playing, how he expects them to continue playing/improve, and how much PT they'll get to actually make an impact):


Kyrie
Rubio
Marshon Brooks
Markieff Morris
Kawhi Leonard

MChambers
01-13-2012, 11:33 AM
Yea, like shoot! A fairly important asset in basketball. (Wall is shooting 34% from the floor, Kyrie is shooting 47% including 37% from 3. Those are very good numbers for any guard, and for a rookie those are phenomenal shooting numbers.) My guess is Kyrie is an all-star before Wall.
I was too lazy to look up the numbers, but I was thinking of shooting, defense, and also the ability to change directions multiple times on a drive, much like Nash. My sense is that Wall has amazing speed, strength, and quickness, more than Kyrie, but there's more to basketball than that. Of course, I rarely watch Wall's team, even though I live in DC, for obvious reasons.

mkirsh
01-13-2012, 03:28 PM
I was too lazy to look up the numbers, but I was thinking of shooting, defense, and also the ability to change directions multiple times on a drive, much like Nash. My sense is that Wall has amazing speed, strength, and quickness, more than Kyrie, but there's more to basketball than that. Of course, I rarely watch Wall's team, even though I live in DC, for obvious reasons.

I live in DC and unfortunately do watch Wall, and watched Kyrie a bit during the preview period for league pass. Would much rather have Kyrie, and it isn't even close. Wall is very good on the break, but totally lost in the half court, both in running the team and in scoring. Kyrie, despite playing only 11 college games, is much more polished on offense. Wall is probably a slightly better defender right now, but I would not consider D a strength for either at this point.

What is really crazy to think about with Kyrie is that he only had 11 college games, no NBA summer league, and virtually no NBA training camp. He's had to adjust to everything about the NBA at an incredible rate - more frequent (and longer) games, the speed of the players, learn an new offense, learn new defensive schemes, learn his teammates, live on his own, etc - and seems to be doing very well. Even if Rubio edges him out for Rookie of the year, hard to be anything other than extremely impressed with what KI has been doing.

JNort
01-13-2012, 03:44 PM
I too would prefer Kyrie to Wall but I would like to defend Wall a bit. Wall happens to be on the worst franchise in the NBA right now with literally no help from his teammates. Kyrie is on a bad team but the players on that team are legitimate role guys built for a one man show. Wall is on a team with legitimate backups, has-beens and never will be's with a terrible coach to boot. Kyrie is also naturally a better shooter than Wall but Wall could prob avg 40 to 42% or so on that team.

mkirsh
01-13-2012, 04:00 PM
I too would prefer Kyrie to Wall but I would like to defend Wall a bit. Wall happens to be on the worst franchise in the NBA right now with literally no help from his teammates. Kyrie is on a bad team but the players on that team are legitimate role guys built for a one man show. Wall is on a team with legitimate backups, has-beens and never will be's with a terrible coach to boot. Kyrie is also naturally a better shooter than Wall but Wall could prob avg 40 to 42% or so on that team.

Didn't mean to say that Wall was garbage, I actually have hopes of him becoming a good player once he gets some quality coaching (Flip is better suited with a veteran team vs developing talent), but more to imply how impressive Kyrie has been in early action compared to his peers, as someone who has watched a fair bit of both play.

Agree that the Wizards are terrible, but the Cavs aren't exactly the 92 Bulls. They won 19 games last year, compared to 23 for the Wiz. Cavs may be slightly more talented, but don't think it is a huge edge:

Cavs vs Wizards starters
Kyrie vs Wall
Parker vs Young
Casspi vs Blatche
Jamison vs Lewis
Varejao vs McGee

Would concede that the Cavs have a better bench and likely a better coach.

JNort
01-13-2012, 04:33 PM
Didn't mean to say that Wall was garbage, I actually have hopes of him becoming a good player once he gets some quality coaching (Flip is better suited with a veteran team vs developing talent), but more to imply how impressive Kyrie has been in early action compared to his peers, as someone who has watched a fair bit of both play.

Agree that the Wizards are terrible, but the Cavs aren't exactly the 92 Bulls. They won 19 games last year, compared to 23 for the Wiz. Cavs may be slightly more talented, but don't think it is a huge edge:

Cavs vs Wizards starters
Kyrie vs Wall
Parker vs Young
Casspi vs Blatche
Jamison vs Lewis
Varejao vs McGee

Would concede that the Cavs have a better bench and likely a better coach.


Yeah I understood what you meant I just wanted to point that Wall is a bit better than people give him credit for. Also the Cavs roster is built to surround one or two all star type guys which is helping Kyrie a little bit better.

Acymetric
01-13-2012, 06:59 PM
G with huge dunks in back to back games now:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY2DK7Rhtqg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND6qyPavTFM

The dunk against Atlanta was the better dunk by far, but he absolutely punked Carmelo Anthony there. Wow.

MChambers
01-13-2012, 08:18 PM
Yeah I understood what you meant I just wanted to point that Wall is a bit better than people give him credit for. Also the Cavs roster is built to surround one or two all star type guys which is helping Kyrie a little bit better.
I wasn't trying to bash Wall either. He's very talented and would be much better with a better situation. I don't think Saunders is batter coach than you say, but the roster is a disaster, starting with Blatche and Young, who have to be two of the dumbest and most immature players in the league.

I do feel compelled to point out that the Wizards dumped Jamison 2 years ago, so it's not like he's a hot property. He's had a very good career, but has always been a tweener, and is near the end of his career. So I'm mot impressed with the Cavs's roster. They earned the first pick in the draft.

heyman25
01-14-2012, 03:50 AM
Is Lance Thomas trying to get on another team or is he back in NBADL?

NSDukeFan
01-14-2012, 08:10 AM
Is Lance Thomas trying to get on another team or is he back in NBADL?

Both.
http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/lance_thomas/

MartyClark
01-14-2012, 08:18 AM
Is Lance Thomas trying to get on another team or is he back in NBADL?

What is Brian Zoubek doing? As I recall, he had a back injury last year. Is he playing anywhere?

theAlaskanBear
01-14-2012, 08:45 AM
I have a little free time this weekend, so I thought I would throw some tidbits out:

Luol Deng had his second monster rebounding game in a row in a Chicago victory over Boston: 21 points and 16 rebounds. He had 15 rebounds his previous game and over the last 3 games is averaging 18pts and 14rebs.

Elton Brand and Co aka the 76ers are having a nice season so far...8-3 record, albeit against fairly modest competition (last night the hapless Wizards). Brand had 13pts and 5reb.

Kyrie has had 3 straight 20+ point games -- and the Cavs took LA down to the wire last night in LA. Bryant has been ridiculous though -- scored 40 points for the third straight game.

nmduke2001
01-14-2012, 09:50 AM
Luol Deng had his second monster rebounding game in a row in a Chicago victory over Boston: 21 points and 16 rebounds. He had 15 rebounds his previous game and over the last 3 games is averaging 18pts and 14rebs.

I think Luol is making a strong case for being the third best small forward on the planet behind KD and LeBron. If Luol didn't play with the MVP of the league, he would be getting a lot more attention.

flyingdutchdevil
01-14-2012, 09:58 AM
I think Luol is making a strong case for being the third best small forward on the planet behind KD and LeBron. If Luol didn't play with the MVP of the league, he would be getting a lot more attention.

Luol is one of the best defensive SFs in the league, if not the best. His offense is quite good, but he needs the attention to be elsewhere. Luol is one of the best second bananas in the league (ie second star on a team). When Luol is the number-one option, I don't think he'll be as good.

There is a very strong chance that Luol gets an All-Star bid, which should happen consider the way that he is playing.

Side note - with Luol, Hendo, and Irving, Duke has a really exciting group of young players.

JNort
01-14-2012, 12:50 PM
I think Luol is making a strong case for being the third best small forward on the planet behind KD and LeBron. If Luol didn't play with the MVP of the league, he would be getting a lot more attention.

Yea SF is super competitive in the NBA right now.

1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Melo
4. Iggy
5. Rudy Gay

4 and 5 can basically be interchangeable. 6th best you couldnt go wrong with any of the following: Loul, Gerald Wallace, Paul Pierce, Danilo Gallinari and Danny Granger

loldevilz
01-14-2012, 02:32 PM
Yea SF is super competitive in the NBA right now.

1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Melo
4. Iggy
5. Rudy Gay

4 and 5 can basically be interchangeable. 6th best you couldnt go wrong with any of the following: Loul, Gerald Wallace, Paul Pierce, Danilo Gallinari and Danny Granger

Rudy Gay is incredibly overrated. Remember that Memphis actually got better when Battier replaced Gay. I would also say that Luol and Pierce are better than Iggy. Iggy simply isn't a good shooter, but he is a good defender like Gerald Wallace also is.

JNort
01-14-2012, 03:04 PM
Rudy Gay is incredibly overrated. Remember that Memphis actually got better when Battier replaced Gay. I would also say that Luol and Pierce are better than Iggy. Iggy simply isn't a good shooter, but he is a good defender like Gerald Wallace also is.

I think for now until someone can consistently prove it you have to keep Iggy and Gay above the others but the way Loul is playing now it wont take long. Gay and Iggy are focal points to their team were as Loul gets to be the 2nd man to DRose so that kinda hurts Louls exposure.

nmduke2001
01-14-2012, 03:07 PM
Yea SF is super competitive in the NBA right now.

1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Melo
4. Iggy
5. Rudy Gay

4 and 5 can basically be interchangeable. 6th best you couldnt go wrong with any of the following: Loul, Gerald Wallace, Paul Pierce, Danilo Gallinari and Danny Granger


Rudy Gay is incredibly overrated. Remember that Memphis actually got better when Battier replaced Gay. I would also say that Luol and Pierce are better than Iggy. Iggy simply isn't a good shooter, but he is a good defender like Gerald Wallace also is.

I agree with loldevilz. The reason I put Luol over Melo is that Melo is a high volume shooter and he is basically allergic to defense.

JNort
01-14-2012, 03:15 PM
I agree with loldevilz. The reason I put Luol over Melo is that Melo is a high volume shooter and he is basically allergic to defense.

I have a feeling every NBA coach would take Melo over Loul.

BTW: Melo attempts 19 shots a game, Loul 13 that is not an overly large difference. Melo is also the guy who faces all the pressure while still shooting a very good % (46 to Louls 47).

1 24 90
01-14-2012, 03:29 PM
Luol is one of the best defensive SFs in the league, if not the best. His offense is quite good, but he needs the attention to be elsewhere. Luol is one of the best second bananas in the league (ie second star on a team). When Luol is the number-one option, I don't think he'll be as good.

There is a very strong chance that Luol gets an All-Star bid, which should happen consider the way that he is playing.

Side note - with Luol, Hendo, and Irving, Duke has a really exciting group of young players.

I would like to add JJ to this list.

JNort
01-14-2012, 03:32 PM
I would like to add JJ to this list.

Heck yeah JJ has been solid so far this year! Also Josh McRoberts had been filling into his new role very nicely.

jimsumner
01-14-2012, 04:23 PM
I have a feeling every NBA coach would take Melo over Loul.

BTW: Melo attempts 19 shots a game, Loul 13 that is not an overly large difference. Melo is also the guy who faces all the pressure while still shooting a very good % (46 to Louls 47).

You're probably right. But as good as Anthony is, he has to have the ball in his hands to help his team. A lot. He can shoot you out of a game as easily as he can shoot you into one.

Deng, on the other hand, can help a team without getting a lot of shots.

Make no mistake, Anthony is an elite NBA scorer. But championship teams need versatile, glue guys like Deng every bit as much as they need high-volume scorers like 'Melo.

It appears that Deng is playing himself into an all-star caliber player, while helping his team win at a high percentage. That's a pretty good combo.

JNort
01-14-2012, 04:41 PM
You're probably right. But as good as Anthony is, he has to have the ball in his hands to help his team. A lot. He can shoot you out of a game as easily as he can shoot you into one.

Deng, on the other hand, can help a team without getting a lot of shots.

Make no mistake, Anthony is an elite NBA scorer. But championship teams need versatile, glue guys like Deng every bit as much as they need high-volume scorers like 'Melo.

It appears that Deng is playing himself into an all-star caliber player, while helping his team win at a high percentage. That's a pretty good combo.

Completely agree! I was just in disagreement that Loul is the 3rd best SF in the league. I think he has proven to be very good but more in the 5 to 12 best SFs.

jimsumner
01-14-2012, 05:41 PM
Completely agree! I was just in disagreement that Loul is the 3rd best SF in the league. I think he has proven to be very good but more in the 5 to 12 best SFs.

Right back at ya. I agree that top three might be stretching it a bit.

Acymetric
01-16-2012, 06:02 PM
J.J. tore it up today as a starter with 21 points (2nd on the team behind Ryan Anderson) going 8-12 and 3-6 from 3 in 37 minutes. In addition to being the 2nd highest scorer he had the 2nd best +/- on the team. He's getting the start because Richardson is injured but hopefully earns more time with play like this. Way to go JJ!

doctorhook
01-16-2012, 06:06 PM
Kyrie with 25 and 7 assists winning on the road against Charlotte.

jimsumner
01-16-2012, 09:03 PM
Kyrie with 25 and 7 assists winning on the road against Charlotte.

Duke has had two rookies of the year, Grant Hill (tied with Kidd) and Elton Brand. It's early but Kyrie Irving could be well on his way for number three.

COYS
01-17-2012, 08:53 AM
Duke has had two rookies of the year, Grant Hill (tied with Kidd) and Elton Brand. It's early but Kyrie Irving could be well on his way for number three.

The win for Kyrie and the Cavs also got Cleveland to .500. That's incredible given their roster. The season is long (even the lock-out shortened season is way longer than Kyrie's 11 game college season last year) so there's no guarantee that he won't have some more bumps along the road, but what he has done so far is really impressive. Despite the love for Rubio, I think an objective observer would have to put Kyrie in the ROY top spot if the season ended today.

nmduke2001
01-17-2012, 11:09 AM
Duke has had two rookies of the year, Grant Hill (tied with Kidd) and Elton Brand. It's early but Kyrie Irving could be well on his way for number three.

EB shared the 2000 ROY with Steve Francis. Maybe Kyrie will get it to himself.

g-money
01-17-2012, 11:54 AM
The win for Kyrie and the Cavs also got Cleveland to .500. That's incredible given their roster. The season is long (even the lock-out shortened season is way longer than Kyrie's 11 game college season last year) so there's no guarantee that he won't have some more bumps along the road, but what he has done so far is really impressive. Despite the love for Rubio, I think an objective observer would have to put Kyrie in the ROY top spot if the season ended today.

It's starting to look like the prognosticators may have missed the mark when they declared Kyrie a good but not great NBA prospect. What makes his play even more amazing is that he hasn't really even filled out his frame yet. With 15 pounds of muscle and gradual improvement in other areas, he could become a top 5, dominant NBA PG.

Keep it up young man!

COYS
01-17-2012, 12:13 PM
EB shared the 2000 ROY with Steve Francis. Maybe Kyrie will get it to himself.

It's hard to believe Steve Francis was ROY as recently as 2000. It seems like he's been gone from the NBA for ages. His promising career was a strange train wreck of injuries and crazy antics. He's now plying his trade in China.

Anyway, as for Kyrie and the ROY of the award, it's worth noting that Kyrie is top 5 among NBA point guards so far this season in terms of John Hollinger's PER (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg) (behind the insider wall, I'm afraid), sitting behind Chris Paul (#1 among points) and D Rose (4th) but ahead of Nash, Rondo, Westbrook, Lawson, and Parker (as well as Rubio, obviously). It's very early in the season and it remains to be seen whether or not Kyrie can maintain this level of efficiency for an entire season. Nevertheless, his current PER of 22.41 is actually slightly better than Chris Paul's incredibly impressive rookie PER of 22.14, which was one of the best (if not THE best) performances by a rookie point guard in the past 15 years. For comparison's sake, Rose's rookie year PER was in the 16's, which is significantly below Kyrie's. I think those who believed Kyrie's lack of Derrick Rose or John Wall athleticism would keep him from stardom are likely going to need to reconsider their assessment. Any rookie who posts a PER above the league average of 15 is already doing great. A rookie that can maintain one of the highest PERs for their position in the league while playing extended minutes for a team that was truly terrible last season is something special. He's got a ways to go before we can write Kyrie down as having a truly exceptional rookie year, but he is off to an incredible start. Right now, turnovers and perhaps a slightly lower assist rate are the only two big things holding him back from being better. Both of those are almost certain to improve with experience. Kyrie will never be Lebron, but Cleveland fans should be ecstatic about their most recent #1 pick's play so far.

UrinalCake
01-17-2012, 01:14 PM
What's even more amazing is that he had almost no preseason training camp after months of uncertainty about the season, and his foot wasn't back to 100% until just a couple months ago.

MCFinARL
01-17-2012, 01:17 PM
What's even more amazing is that he had almost no preseason training camp after months of uncertainty about the season, and his foot wasn't back to 100% until just a couple months ago.

True--although in fairness, he is also playing against defenders who had almost no preseason training camp as well. So that might balance out.

UrinalCake
01-17-2012, 01:21 PM
True--although in fairness, he is also playing against defenders who had almost no preseason training camp as well. So that might balance out.

Yeah, but being a rookie puts him at a particular disadvantage.

SilkyJ
01-17-2012, 02:24 PM
Both are playing off the charts right now, though I think Kyrie is slightly ahead, particularly after the streak he's had in the last 5 games where's he gone over 20pts in each game.

In those last 5 games Kyrie's stats looks like this: 22.6ppg, 5.2 asts, 3.8 tos, 2.2 rebs on 55% shooting, 40% from 3 and 86% from the line, where's he averaging 4.4 FTAs/game.

Besides the A/TO ratio of 1.36, which isn't great but isn't aweful either, his numbers speak for themselves and are pretty outstanding. For the year he's now averaging almost 18ppg, 5asts, 3 rebs and 3tos.

Rubio is averaging 11pts, 8asts, 4.4 rebs and 3tos. Pretty impressive as well, and his 2.5 a/to ratio is outstanding for a rookie PG. (As a note, Rubio is also playing ~4 more minutes per game than Kyrie.)

Overall, Hollinger has Kyrie at a ridiculous 22.41 PER, good for 20th in the league and Rubio at very good 18.5, good for 65th in the league. Here's the full PER rankings list (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics), remember its intentionally curved so that a 15 is the league average. (I know there was a post on this earlier, I was typing this post this morning but never clicked submit...sorry for some redundancy)

Hollinger certainly has Kyrie as is ROY so far (he said so in a column I linked to about a week ago), and has Rubio second. Both should make their fair share of highlight reels throughout the season, but Kyrie's scoring and his team's potential to make the playoffs may give him the lift. Its very, very early, but the Cavs are currently 7th in the east right now (http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2) ahead of NYC in 8th and Boston in 9th. I expect both NYC and Boston will make a push as we get into the season and the Cavs may dropout, but I wouldn't be shocked to see them sneak in as the 8 seed.

gwlaw99
01-18-2012, 02:36 PM
Also, don't forget Rubio has much better players to pass to like Kevin Love and Michael Beasly. I bet Kyrie's assist totals would be better if he had team mates other than Jamison who could score.

Ichabod Drain
01-18-2012, 03:06 PM
Also, don't forget Rubio has much better players to pass to like Kevin Love and Michael Beasly. I bet Kyrie's assist totals would be better if he had team mates other than Jamison who could score.

But would his PPG go down as well with better players on the court with him? There's a certain balance there.

SilkyJ
01-18-2012, 03:39 PM
Also, don't forget Rubio has much better players to pass to like Kevin Love and Michael Beasly. I bet Kyrie's assist totals would be better if he had team mates other than Jamison who could score.

Maybe he has a couple more options, but its not like the Twolves are an offensive juggernaut. They are 5-8 and 15th in the league in PPG. Cleveland is 11th.

Yes, Love is a great option, and better than Kyrie's #1 option in Jamison, but that's about it for the Twolves. Beasley did score 19ppg last year, but he's a headcase night in and out, and isn't playing right now either. In the 7 games he did play he only averaged 12ppg despite playing 30+ minutes. After that Rubio's options fall off a cliff as he's got Luke Ridnour (when they play together) and JJ Barea, both barely averaging double digits.

So, Rubio's options are a bit better, but not a ton.

flyingdutchdevil
01-18-2012, 06:08 PM
Also, don't forget Rubio has much better players to pass to like Kevin Love and Michael Beasly. I bet Kyrie's assist totals would be better if he had team mates other than Jamison who could score.

I don't think you can argue against Rubio being a better passer than Kyrie, just like you can't argue that Kyrie is a better scorer than Rubio. Rubio's passes are unbelievable - just look at the highlights at nba.com.

However, what I think will separate the two in the future is D. Currently, they are both pretty bad. But Kyrie - with better than average speed and athleticism - can be a much better defender than Rubio.

SilkyJ
01-18-2012, 08:35 PM
However, what I think will separate the two in the future is D. Currently, they are both pretty bad. But Kyrie - with better than average speed and athleticism - can be a much better defender than Rubio.

Conceptually, what you're saying makes sense to me, but Rubio is averaging 2 steals/game to kyrie's 0.8. Rubio has really good size for a PG and really long arms and is able to get his hands on a surprising number of passes, pick some pockets, etc. In fact, I've heard/read several NBA analyst say that Rubio's craftiness on D has been one of the biggest surprises so far.

loldevilz
01-18-2012, 08:55 PM
Irving also has last year's worst team in the league firmly in the hunt for the playoff race with arguably less talent. Rubio even with Kevin Love one of the best players in the game still can't figure out how to win games.

flyingdutchdevil
01-18-2012, 10:43 PM
Conceptually, what you're saying makes sense to me, but Rubio is averaging 2 steals/game to kyrie's 0.8. Rubio has really good size for a PG and really long arms and is able to get his hands on a surprising number of passes, pick some pockets, etc. In fact, I've heard/read several NBA analyst say that Rubio's craftiness on D has been one of the biggest surprises so far.

Luol averages 1.2 steals a game. Carmelo averages 1.4. 99% sure that no one would ever say that Carmelo is a better defender than Luol. Steals in the NBA are one of the most misleading figures. Furthermore, regarding size, Rubio is 1 inch taller than Irving and weights 9 pounds more, which wouldn't make much of a difference on defense. In the NBA, the most important quality for a PG on defense is quickness due to the no-hand check rule, and I feel that Kyrie is better suited for this particular skill set.

JNort
01-18-2012, 11:07 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8suMzxCbHCU

Kyrie has a nice little highlight reel already considering not many games have been played yet

UrinalCake
01-19-2012, 12:24 AM
I see Nolan got in for 10 minutes and hit a three. He was the only bench player to have a positive +/- number. Hope he gets an opportunity for some more PT as the season wears on.

CameronBornAndBred
01-19-2012, 07:11 AM
I see Nolan got in for 10 minutes and hit a three. He was the only bench player to have a positive +/- number. Hope he gets an opportunity for some more PT as the season wears on.
I was happy to see he finally got off the bench. Seemingly keeping in tune with his "leave as many players sitting as possible" philosophy, the Portland coach once again had 4 DNP's. Great to see that Nolan was not one of them.

Ichabod Drain
01-19-2012, 07:34 AM
Luol averages 1.2 steals a game. Carmelo averages 1.4. 99% sure that no one would ever say that Carmelo is a better defender than Luol. Steals in the NBA are one of the most misleading figures. Furthermore, regarding size, Rubio is 1 inch taller than Irving and weights 9 pounds more, which wouldn't make much of a difference on defense. In the NBA, the most important quality for a PG on defense is quickness due to the no-hand check rule, and I feel that Kyrie is better suited for this particular skill set.

I wouldn't limit steals to just being misleading in the NBA, they are one of the most misleading stats whether your in the NBA, College, or even middle shcool. The only advantage i would say the height and weight give rubio is there is often a lot of switches in the NBA to cause defensive mismatches and any height or weight could be helpful in that situation, but 1 inch and 9 lbs isn't a whole lot more to work with.

COYS
01-19-2012, 09:21 AM
I wouldn't limit steals to just being misleading in the NBA, they are one of the most misleading stats whether your in the NBA, College, or even middle shcool. The only advantage i would say the height and weight give rubio is there is often a lot of switches in the NBA to cause defensive mismatches and any height or weight could be helpful in that situation, but 1 inch and 9 lbs isn't a whole lot more to work with.

The one area where looking at steals can be useful is in evaluating a players quickness relative to other players. John Hollinger uses it as an "athletic marker" along with rebounding rate and free throw rate to show when/if a player's quickness starts to decline. He also uses this in his yearly draft rater for college prospects (http://realcavsfans.com/showthread.php?37205-Hollinger-s-Draft-Rater-Who-wiill-be-good-pros). The idea is that regardless of whether or not you are playing good positional defense or not, the ability to get a lot of steals indicates that you have a certain amount of quickness or a combo of quickness and length relative to the league, especially for point guards. Right now, Paul, Shumpert, Conley, Rubio, and Lowry make up the top 5 in steals in the league. All play point guard and, with the exception of Rubio, all were already known for their quickness. That Rubio is getting so many steals has got to be encouraging for the T-Wolves who must've been slightly concerned that Rubio would not be quick enough to handle the NBA upon his arrival.

Obviously, this is not a perfect science yet, as Hollinger freely admits. But it is interesting food for thought, nonetheless.

NSDukeFan
01-19-2012, 12:56 PM
I wouldn't limit steals to just being misleading in the NBA, they are one of the most misleading stats whether your in the NBA, College, or even middle shcool. The only advantage i would say the height and weight give rubio is there is often a lot of switches in the NBA to cause defensive mismatches and any height or weight could be helpful in that situation, but 1 inch and 9 lbs isn't a whole lot more to work with.

I agree that steals can certainly be misleading as to whether a person is a quality defender or not.

The other thing that has surprised me a bit with Rubio is that he is putting up pretty good rebounding numbers. He is currently averaging 4.6 per game, which is more than the 3.5 Irving is averaging. I thought Kyrie was a good rebounder last year with Duke, in the limited action we saw.

JNort
01-19-2012, 01:04 PM
I see Nolan got in for 10 minutes and hit a three. He was the only bench player to have a positive +/- number. Hope he gets an opportunity for some more PT as the season wears on.

I really wish Nolan would have been drafted by a team in serious need of a pg though. Lakers come to mind, he would get plenty of pt there and not have much to worry about... just give it to Kobe

Ichabod Drain
01-19-2012, 01:31 PM
I really wish Nolan would have been drafted by a team in serious need of a pg though. Lakers come to mind, he would get plenty of pt there and not have much to worry about... just give it to Kobe


I agree but his contract is for two years, two years where I feel he will get some great experience then who knows from there. He is the #2 PG on their depth chart but when Felton comes out of the game Crawford, who is actually listed as a SG, usually takes over the ball handling responsibilities. Nolan is a hard worker and a good kid, I truly believe he will have a very successful career.

Oriole Way
01-20-2012, 01:28 AM
I agree that steals can certainly be misleading as to whether a person is a quality defender or not.

The other thing that has surprised me a bit with Rubio is that he is putting up pretty good rebounding numbers. He is currently averaging 4.6 per game, which is more than the 3.5 Irving is averaging. I thought Kyrie was a good rebounder last year with Duke, in the limited action we saw.

A decent amount of the 1.1 rebound discrepancy can be attributed to the fact Irving has played an average of about 3:30 minutes less per game than Rubio.

hq2
01-20-2012, 10:44 AM
I really wish Nolan would have been drafted by a team in serious need of a pg though. Lakers come to mind, he would get plenty of pt there and not have much to worry about... just give it to Kobe

I'd say it'll take time for Nolan to work his way into the rotation. He's basically a combo guard, and that usually translates into bench minutes.
There's other players on the roster who can do what he does. Give him some time to learn the pro game; once the coach sees he won't do anything
dumb out there and can hit three pointers, he'll play more.

Billy Dat
01-20-2012, 11:32 AM
A couple of NBA Notes:

-From a podcast perspective, ESPN's NBA today is now 3 days a week. You get Ryan Russillo on Monday, Legler and Mike Yam on Wednesday, and Henry Abbott of TrueHoop fame on Fridays. Russillo is an acquired taste as his intentional style is arrogant/cool/impatient but he does it on purpose and knows his stuff. Yam and Legler are tough to take, clearly the studio personality paired with the ex-jock with the ex-jock being pretty cookie cutter. Abbott is great - a soft-spoken Pacific Northwest stat head with lots of opinions. Also, it's been around for 1-2 years but there is a great audio/video daily NBA pod called The Basketball Jones done out of Toronto. I had heard of it, but the Grantland Network started carrying it on Friday's and I am now hooked. Excellent NBA coverage.

-RE: JJ
He is the only guy on the Magic that I see ALWAYS looking to feed Howard if Howard is posting. Then, he always immediately runs his man out of the zone to keep his man from digging down on Dwight. It's just so smart, Howard racks up tons of fouls, which get the Magic into the bonus early and sets up the whole offense. Aside from building himself and NBA body, this is another reason why Stan Van loves him so much.

RE: Steve Blake
On the Basketball Jones, they were talking about the "Toughest Guys in the NBA". They broke the title into a few buckets - and one was, literally, guys who other guys are scared of because they can really fight. Apparently, Steve Blake is one of those people. He trains in MMA and is ready to throw fists at any time. Classic! Personally, my vote is Nate Robinson. Much like little man Calvin Murphy before him, he fears no one and has a very short fuse.

SilkyJ
01-20-2012, 12:24 PM
A decent amount of the 1.1 rebound discrepancy can be attributed to the fact Irving has played an average of about 3:30 minutes less per game than Rubio.

Sorta. 27% of the rebound discrepancy can be attributed to the difference in minutes. Rubio's rebounds/40 minutes is 5.8 and Kyrie's is 5.0.

Jderf
01-20-2012, 01:56 PM
I agree but his contract is for two years, two years where I feel he will get some great experience then who knows from there. He is the #2 PG on their depth chart but when Felton comes out of the game Crawford, who is actually listed as a SG, usually takes over the ball handling responsibilities. Nolan is a hard worker and a good kid, I truly believe he will have a very successful career.

Considering where Nolan was projected going into his junior year, I would say that he has already had a successful NBA career. That said, I have no doubt that he has more minutes in his future.

_Gary
01-20-2012, 06:40 PM
I don't have NBA League Pass, but in looking at the online stats just now I see that Nolan is actually playing with the 2nd unit late in the first quarter at Toronto. So he's not just getting burn in mop-up time! Go Nolan!!

UrinalCake
01-20-2012, 08:18 PM
Due to the compressed schedule this season I would expect that the bench players - which I guess would be Nolan, Shelden, and perhaps Dahntay Jones - should have good opportunities for minutes as the season progresses, players start wearing down, and the back-to-back-to-back games begin to weigh on people. In that sense I feel like Kyle is sort of missing an opportunity by staying overseas, but at the same time he's probably developing a lot more over there so more power to him.

Also, I don't think of Nolan as a combo guard at the NBA level. He proved last year that he can do it all as a pure point guard so there's no reason he should ever be playing the 2.

Update: Nolan has only logged 4 minutes but is stuffing the box score with 1 FG, 1 rebound, 1 assist, and 1 steal.

Duke05
01-20-2012, 11:38 PM
I'm a bit late posting this, but here's a video (from a site I enjoy a lot) breaking down the Bulls in a rather positive way for Deng and a pretty negative way for Boozer: http://www.bballbreakdown.com/why-derrick-rose-is-still-mvp-and-carlos-boozer-is-not/

CrazieDUMB
01-21-2012, 12:04 AM
Haven't seen this posted anywhere, but if it has I apologize. This is a short article comparing Kyrie to Chris Paul and Lebron James as rookies - it's a very favorable analysis. Even though I don't think Kyrie is quite in that category, I think he's exceeded expectations, even as a #1 pick.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/35846/irving-better-than-paul-lebron-as-rookie

By the way, along with DBR, truehoop is one of the only (basketball) sites I read on a daily basis. I highly recommend it.

flyingdutchdevil
01-21-2012, 11:40 AM
Nelson, Redick, Richardson, Anderson, Howard.

That is just an awesome line-up. 1-4 are better than average 3pt shooters and Howard anchors the D. Why didn't van Gundy use this more?

Love that Redick is such an important player on the Magic and all the key players look for him to be open.

SilkyJ
01-21-2012, 12:46 PM
Nelson, Redick, Richardson, Anderson, Howard.

That is just an awesome line-up. 1-4 are better than average 3pt shooters and Howard anchors the D. Why didn't van Gundy use this more?

Love that Redick is such an important player on the Magic and all the key players look for him to be open.

He hasn't been using it as much b/c he's had Turkoglu, who's out hurt, I believe.

I also don't think its that great of a lineup. Besides Howard all are average defenders. And while JJ and Anderson have really become productive NBA guys, Jameer and JRich are really struggling this year and seem to have declined over the past few years. JRich's best years are definitely behind him and his numbers are pretty depressed since arriving in Orlando. Both are averaging career lows in pts (minus Jameer's rookie year) and their stats are pretty down across the board. While its early and there was no training camp, they've both largely been on slow but steady the last couple years so I don't expect them to take major leaps as the year goes on.

If you had paired Jameer & Jrich ~3 years ago with JJ and Anderson today, that would be a really good squad around Howard. Today? Just an ok squad. Howard has the ability to hide a lot of flaws, but they are probably a second round playoff team at best--the Bulls and the Heat would beat them in 5 or 6 max. Heck, the Hawks beat them in 6 last year in the first round.

loldevilz
01-21-2012, 01:49 PM
Nelson, Redick, Richardson, Anderson, Howard.

That is just an awesome line-up. 1-4 are better than average 3pt shooters and Howard anchors the D. Why didn't van Gundy use this more?

Love that Redick is such an important player on the Magic and all the key players look for him to be open.

Unfortunately I think its gonna be Nelson, Redick, Richardson, Anderson, Bynum pretty soon. Lakers are gonna with the championship when they finally get Howard.

mike88
01-21-2012, 02:00 PM
He hasn't been using it as much b/c he's had Turkoglu, who's out hurt, I believe.

I also don't think its that great of a lineup. Besides Howard all are average defenders. And while JJ and Anderson have really become productive NBA guys, Jameer and JRich are really struggling this year and seem to have declined over the past few years. JRich's best years are definitely behind him and his numbers are pretty depressed since arriving in Orlando. Both are averaging career lows in pts (minus Jameer's rookie year) and their stats are pretty down across the board. While its early and there was no training camp, they've both largely been on slow but steady the last couple years so I don't expect them to take major leaps as the year goes on.

If you had paired Jameer & Jrich ~3 years ago with JJ and Anderson today, that would be a really good squad around Howard. Today? Just an ok squad. Howard has the ability to hide a lot of flaws, but they are probably a second round playoff team at best--the Bulls and the Heat would beat them in 5 or 6 max. Heck, the Hawks beat them in 6 last year in the first round.

Hedo was playing really well before tweaking his back, and Ryan Anderson is having a career year. A finishing line-up of Jameer, JJ, Hedo, Ryan and Dwight is pretty strong. I don't think they can beat the Bulls or the Heat this year- but they are playing as well as anyone else in the East (Atlanta without Horford is not going to beat them)

mr. synellinden
01-24-2012, 02:55 PM
Bad news for Luol and the Bulls (http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/id/7498176/chicago-bulls-luol-deng-torn-ligament-wrist)- the injury to his left wrist is a torn ligament. No surgery is planned, but he's expected to be out for several weeks.

flyingdutchdevil
01-25-2012, 08:15 AM
Bad news for Luol and the Bulls (http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/id/7498176/chicago-bulls-luol-deng-torn-ligament-wrist)- the injury to his left wrist is a torn ligament. No surgery is planned, but he's expected to be out for several weeks.

This is huge news for the Bulls and Deng. The Bulls need Deng for his defense, rebounding, and second banana offense. Deng was a borderline All-Star (I say borderline because the All-Star game is too much based on numbers and Luol's, on the surface, are only decent) and now this injury will almost guarantee that he misses the cut. Again. :(

COYS
01-25-2012, 08:49 AM
This is huge news for the Bulls and Deng. The Bulls need Deng for his defense, rebounding, and second banana offense. Deng was a borderline All-Star (I say borderline because the All-Star game is too much based on numbers and Luol's, on the surface, are only decent) and now this injury will almost guarantee that he misses the cut. Again. :(

I hate this for Deng, but it might actually help Deng and the Bulls in the long term. Even with the compressed schedule, Luol was playing ridiculous minutes for Chicago night in and night out. They have enough depth that they can still manage a top finish in the East without him and, when he comes back, he'll have fresher legs for the playoffs than last season.

Ichabod Drain
01-25-2012, 10:50 AM
Here's a good article from grantland on ranking NBA rookies. It mainly talks about how efficient Kyrie is on the offensive side of the ball. The past couple times they've had Rubio at #1 but Kyrie has surpassed him, at least according to the writers, for the time being.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7498199/nba-rookie-rankings-iii-including-kyrie-irving-ricky-rubio-more

JBDuke
01-25-2012, 06:53 PM
In case no one noticed, JJ Redick had a notable achievement in last night's game - he blocked a shot! In the 298 games played in his NBA career to date, JJ has blocked a total of 10 shots, so this is something of a rare event. I think it has to do with the Aurora Borealis being seen so far south as well on Tuesday night...

JNort
01-25-2012, 08:38 PM
Haven't seen this posted anywhere, but if it has I apologize. This is a short article comparing Kyrie to Chris Paul and Lebron James as rookies - it's a very favorable analysis. Even though I don't think Kyrie is quite in that category, I think he's exceeded expectations, even as a #1 pick.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/35846/irving-better-than-paul-lebron-as-rookie

By the way, along with DBR, truehoop is one of the only (basketball) sites I read on a daily basis. I highly recommend it.

Please don't ask for the link cause it will take me forever to find it more than likely but I believe a read somewhere on ESPN last year that Kyrie Irving is the highest rated PG coming in as a rookie ever! 2nd on that list was Chris Paul. If I recall the whole list of top players coming in turned out to be very very good NBA pgs. I will try to find it once the Maryland game ends.

hq2
01-25-2012, 09:16 PM
Kyrie was one of those rare talents who are extremely well developed at a young age; Lebron and Magic were both like that.
I mean, he was clearly a better player than two stars off a national championship team, one of whom went on to be 1st team
AA and an NPOY contender. It isn't surprising he's that good now in the pros; he should be a great pro for a long time (if he doesn't get hurt).

Duke05
01-27-2012, 10:17 PM
A good Xs and Os breakdown from NBA Playbook of Kyrie's game:

While Rubio’s style of play is a hybrid of Jason Kidd and Steve Nash, Kyrie’s game has a lot of Chris Paul in it. It was even apparent in last night’s (ugly) win over the Knicks. Irving finished with a mere seven points, he was still able to control the game and dish out seven assists. His playmaking, pace and precocious understanding of game management were all very much on display.
http://nbaplaybook.com/2012/01/26/irving-entering-chris-paul-territory/

doctorhook
01-28-2012, 06:54 AM
Kyrie was incredible last night with 32 points in 30 minutes, he is shooting 50% on the year. Rookies just don't do that regardless of the team.

_Gary
01-28-2012, 08:18 AM
Kyrie was incredible last night with 32 points in 30 minutes, he is shooting 50% on the year. Rookies just don't do that regardless of the team.

And 21 of those points came in the final 6:21 as he almost led the Cavs back from a pretty big deficit. He's absolutely the real deal (as if everyone didn't know that already).

hq2
01-29-2012, 07:46 PM
Scored another 21 today, including his first five shots and a really good game winner, against the Celtics,
while being guarded by Avery Bradley, a pretty good defensive guard. What's amazing about him is the
intelligence and confidence he shows out there. No bad passes, bad shots, wasted time dribbling, nothing.
An incredibly mature talent for a 19 year old player; amazing decision making. Can't wait to see
how good he's going to be.

Chris Randolph
01-29-2012, 08:57 PM
Props to Kyrie for the great game and even better game winner on the road @ Boston. Considering the shortened season and little time for training camp, his rookie campaign has been very impressive up to this point. Wish him the best

Billy Dat
01-30-2012, 10:58 AM
My goodness that was an insane game winning move! Kyrie can operate in a tight space better than Clark Kent.

JNort
01-30-2012, 09:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cK9rLOQaAfw&feature=g-all-u&context=G2c99e99FAAAAAAAAFAA

Kyrie Irving on his time here at Duke and what made it special to him as well as highlights of him at Duke and in the NBA

hq2
01-31-2012, 08:32 PM
Kyrie didn't get the game winner tonight, but still played pretty well. He had 21 (3 on
a last second-didn't matter 3) and a good overall floor game. Scored on a beautiful
lefty drive in traffic with a couple of minutes to go.

doctorhook
01-31-2012, 08:42 PM
Kyrie didn't get the game winner tonight, but still played pretty well. He had 21 (3 on
a last second-didn't matter 3) and a good overall floor game. Scored on a beautiful
lefty drive in traffic with a couple of minutes to go.

Not picking a fight, but "pretty well" ? 7/16 1/2 3pt 18 pts 6 assists 2 to Great stats/game for a rookie on a team of this caliber.

hq2
02-01-2012, 09:59 AM
Yeah, I'd say pretty well. The night before, he was great!

DukieInBrasil
02-01-2012, 08:59 PM
Shelden started and had an extra-solid game tonight, 9pts and 11rebs (7 Oboards), in a battle of 2 terrible teams.
But the funny thing about the game was that not only was he not the only Williams on the team, nor the only Williams starting but he wasn't the only Sh. Williams starting. Shawne Williams also started, as did a 3rd Williams, Deron.

JNort
02-02-2012, 02:27 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PeKtyjckQY&feature=youtu.be&a

Wonder what Nolan and Kyrie did to get ready for the NBA season? This video shows them both working out with Micah Lancaster (Basketball trainer) trying to improve their handles. Boy they sure can dribble a ball (Can Andre pleaaasssseee take lessons with this guy).

Also not sure if anyone has seen it yet but Kyrie was on an ESPN commercial that I found kind of funny. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpp7c7xhNhQ&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLD3B6F86F6A5DCA21

doctorhook
02-02-2012, 06:50 AM
Kyrie played pretty well this month earning Eastern Conf. rookie of the month.

CameronBornAndBred
02-02-2012, 07:13 AM
Shelden started and had an extra-solid game tonight, 9pts and 11rebs (7 Oboards), in a battle of 2 terrible teams.
But the funny thing about the game was that not only was he not the only Williams on the team, nor the only Williams starting but he wasn't the only Sh. Williams starting. Shawne Williams also started, as did a 3rd Williams, Deron.
And a 4th Williams (Jordan) got 21 points off the bench! That's gotta be some kinda record for having that many players on the roster with the same name.
(And Jordan Williams is one of two Jordans)