Intel on Ed Davis, UNC commit

[whereinthehellami]

Has anyone here seen Ed Davis play? If so, whats his game like?

I'm not thrilled that UNC landed him but considering they missed out on the guys they really wanted and he is like Roy's fourth option (Roe, Samuels, Aminu), I guess its not such a bad deal.

Most of the recruiting sites have him as a 6-8, 215 LB power froward, who likes to play facing the basket. Interestingly, Scout has "low block scrorer" and "perimter shot" as areas for improvement, I guess hes got a great middle game:) Ed Davis comes in at #6 in the RSCI Top 100.

I've seen some summer reports recently saying the Davis has played very well this summer and is probably going to move up in the rankings. He played Greg Monroe even when they played about a month ago.

Here is a youtube video of Ed in a dunking contest (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzIjVp2y794&mode=related&search=).

Hopefully Ed Davis will turn out to be more Jawad Willimas than Marvin Williams.

[Patrick Yates]

This could really help UNC offset any potential losses in the post. The kid is anywhere from top 5-top 15, probably closer to the former. UNC, which should be very good this year, now has a comfort zone. Realistically, their two commits, Davis and Drew, are all they need this year. They MAY lose Lawson, Hans, and Ellington this year. Other players are always a possibility of going pro, but that is unlikely. Of the 3 most likely candidates, Lawson is most likely to go, followed by Ellington and Hans (who probably would have gone by now if he was going to go-he is starting to look like a four year stud).

Of course a National Championship might push all three out the door. That said, Drew would allow Frasor to play SG next year should Ellington and Lawson Bolt, so UNC would be a least solid there next year, and should Hans bolt, Davis would provide needed depth at the PF/SF positions, with Thompson/Stephenson really carrying the load in the post. If Hans stays, this would let Davis play more at the three, where he would probably like to end up as in the NBA, and make UNC a real juggernaught next year, even if TL and WE leave, which is no given.

UNC is still involved with some 08 recruits, but I would not be surprised if they stood pat with what they currently have and really started concentrating on the loaded 09 class, where UNC will need some real help on the Wing, as well as bringing in another post player for depth, etc.

Bad day for UNC's rivals.

On the plus side, this does have some miniscule positive implications for Duke.

1) Uconn is deprived of a good recruit, which is nice. Thabeet will probably leave this year, making Uconn thin in the post in 09.

2) This is really devastating to UVA and Leitao. This could be the first nail in his coffin. This probably all but eliminates UVA from the Elliot Williams race. If UVA had gotten Davis, Elliot Wlliams might have joined him at UVA (Leitao was the first coach to recruit Williams, so he was a surprising inclusion on EW's list). With Davis, Willams would have the talent at UVA to make some noise. Now, with Singletary exiting the program and lackluster recruiting classes, I have to think UVA is out of the Williams race. There just is not enough talent for Williams to excell at UVA. Frankly, UVA would be so weak when EW arrived that the opposing defenses would key on him from day 1.

So, overall this is bad for Duke. But, it probably eliminates a major competitor for a key recruit.

Ray of sunshine and all that.

Patrick Yates

[sandinmyshoes]

I heard he will drop in the ranking because he finished the summer on a down note while playing with an ankle injury. I don't know if his high school schedule is strong enough to help him bump back up.

I wonder if he realized his rankings were going to drop and pulled the trigger on the offer out of fear that it might go away? Doubtful, I know, since he isn't likely to fall that far, but who knows what these kids think. It does seem that something caused him to take the offer sooner than most anticipated.

Perhaps because he got wind that UNC had pulled nearly even with Purdue for Zeller? Could UNC have told the two of them that it was one or the other of them? Or would they take both?

[Patrick Yates]

Ed Davis is a 6-8 225lb combo forward, and Zellar is a 7(+?)ft center/forward. If you can get both, you take both. But Zellar is no done deal, and I think that UNC wisely pulled the trigger. Sort of a bird in the hand scenario. Like I said, if UNC could reel in Zeller great, but with Davis and Drew they don't really need any other recruits out of what is a fairly weak class, nationally.

Patrick Yates

[jawk24]

Is there a reason why Duke didn't recruit him, I live in Richmond and I know the school he attends has a good academic reputation. Since when did Duke stop recruiting kids ranked in the top 10 in their class that attend good schools with high academic standards??? Seems like another case of Duke missing out, what will happen if they miss on Monroe, then what?

[Patrick Yates]

Is there a reason why Duke didn't recruit him, I live in Richmond and I know the school he attends has a good academic reputation. Since when did Duke stop recruiting kids ranked in the top 10 in their class that attend good schools with high academic standards??? Seems like another case of Duke missing out, what will happen if they miss on Monroe, then what?

I am completely simpatico as to your questions. But you will get slammed/redacted for questioning K's mistake free guidance of the program/recruiting. However, Davis's dad is apparantly a huge UNC fan, so maybe we did not have a chance with the kid. I do not know. It is somewhat apparant that we never pursued the kid at all.

As to what happens if we do not get Monroe? I don't know. The Dunigan kid has committed to Oregon. Most of the other posts are off the board. Czyz remains our only other target at this point, but he projects as a SF down the road, but could help at PF immediatly (but not dominate. I stress HELP).

If we don't get Monroe? Continued Mediocrity? Who knows?

Patrick Yates

[sandinmyshoes]

Often if a coach doesn't get a good vibe on initial contact they won't waste their time pursuing a player. Maybe Coach K just didn't think Davis was interested in Duke? At least not enough to make him an efficient use of recruiting time and money?

Some people are claiming that Davis was UNC's fourth choice, but also claiming Duke should have been after him hard. The two things don't seem to mesh.

As for Zeller and Davis, I've heard that Zeller's high post game would be a good match for Davis' low post game. I suppose the possibility of UNC trying to take both would depend on how they feel about the players already in their system and what they feel about the '09 class.

[jaimedun34]

Is there a reason why Duke didn't recruit him, I live in Richmond and I know the school he attends has a good academic reputation. Since when did Duke stop recruiting kids ranked in the top 10 in their class that attend good schools with high academic standards??? Seems like another case of Duke missing out, what will happen if they miss on Monroe, then what?

According to scout.com right now, Greg Monroe and Ed Davis are 1 and 2 in the overall rankins, respectively. I think part of it may be that with Thomas and Singler, it would have been very difficult to recruit yet another top 10 post player in that class (and this is not even considering McClure, King and Zoubek in the rotation).

Who knows? Maybe Davis wasn't considering Duke. That is always a possibility.

[whereinthehellami]

The Sabre (http://www.thesabre.com/message_board/basketball/), UVA's sport's site, is in meltdown mode after losing Davis to UNC. UVA was on this kid hard and he was in their backyard. Leito needed this bigtime.

I'm amazed at how quickly he signed with them considering the fact that UNC got in the game so late. Roy is a helluva recruiter, you got to give him that. Roy has always reminded me of a used car salesman with his tan and good ole boy personna but I guess it works in conjuntion with the UNC brand.

[Patrick Yates]

Outside of Singletary, there is probably not a single kid at UVA who would even be on Duke or UNC's team, or at least, none that would play anything other than mop-up minutes. Last year there were whispers by well known columnists (articles no longer up) that Leitao was a nightmare to play for and that he ran down kids routinely, and that he was abusive on the sidelines.

Much like Bob Knight, it is easy for a player to look past this if the team is winning and talent is flowing into the program. Neither is true at UVA. Leitao may be a heck of a tactician, but his style is more suited to mid majors, where the level of athletes dictate that the players need the school (scholarship, education, etc) more than the school need the players. At high majors, top schools, even Duke and UNC, need the players at least as much as the players need the schools. Lets face it, Davis, Monroe, Singler, Hansborough, etc, could have gone anywhere in America and played, a lot. To keep winning, top schools must bring in top kids. That is hard to do if you constantly abuse the kids. It shows on TV, and I assume it shows on recruiting visits.

As for Davis at UVA, as I said earlier, the talent wasn't there. When Singletary leaves, there is no evidence that UVA will have a capable PG to get Davis the ball, unlike at UNC. Even if Williams had committed to UVA, he seems more suited to SG, at least in the short run. So, given that Davis probably needs a quality PG to feed him the ball, UNC was a better fit. There is enough talent in place that ED can develop as a player without being chained to the low post like at UVA (cause at 6-8 and 225, which may be generous as far as weight, he has no realistic pro career as a PF, not when the 6-9 245lb Hans has his size questioned).

Personally, I thought UVA might squeek it out, but I thought that it would be sentimental and foolhardy choice on ED's part. (I was hoping for UCONN instead).

But, like I said, first nail in Leitao's coffin. VTech is decent, and UVA will start a big slide this year. That seat will be red hot by May of 09.

Patrick Yates

[Classof06]

Outside of Singletary, there is probably not a single kid at UVA who would even be on Duke or UNC's team, or at least, none that would play anything other than mop-up minutes. Last year there were whispers by well known columnists (articles no longer up) that Leitao was a nightmare to play for and that he ran down kids routinely, and that he was abusive on the sidelines.

Much like Bob Knight, it is easy for a player to look past this if the team is winning and talent is flowing into the program. Neither is true at UVA. Leitao may be a heck of a tactician, but his style is more suited to mid majors, where the level of athletes dictate that the players need the school (scholarship, education, etc) more than the school need the players. At high majors, top schools, even Duke and UNC, need the players at least as much as the players need the schools. Lets face it, Davis, Monroe, Singler, Hansborough, etc, could have gone anywhere in America and played, a lot. To keep winning, top schools must bring in top kids. That is hard to do if you constantly abuse the kids. It shows on TV, and I assume it shows on recruiting visits.

As for Davis at UVA, as I said earlier, the talent wasn't there. When Singletary leaves, there is no evidence that UVA will have a capable PG to get Davis the ball, unlike at UNC. Even if Williams had committed to UVA, he seems more suited to SG, at least in the short run. So, given that Davis probably needs a quality PG to feed him the ball, UNC was a better fit. There is enough talent in place that ED can develop as a player without being chained to the low post like at UVA (cause at 6-8 and 225, which may be generous as far as weight, he has no realistic pro career as a PF, not when the 6-9 245lb Hans has his size questioned).

Personally, I thought UVA might squeek it out, but I thought that it would be sentimental and foolhardy choice on ED's part. (I was hoping for UCONN instead).

But, like I said, first nail in Leitao's coffin. VTech is decent, and UVA will start a big slide this year. That seat will be red hot by May of 09.

Patrick Yates


Your argument can be summed up in one word: premature. Despite having two very good college guards in Singletary and Reynolds, Leitao absolutely maxed out the talent on that team last year. Not to mention they were ACC Regular Season Co-Champs, getting a piece of the crown for the first time since 1995....in Leitao's 2nd year. And you're telling me his coaching style is more suited for mid-majors? On what basis? I'm not going to say that missing out on Davis is a non-issue, but UVA has been missing out on in-state talent for a long time, now; when missing out on Davis (and even EW, if that's the case) is measured against the success Leitao has achieved so far, the term "hot seat" shouldn't even come into the equation. First nail in the coffin? You're talking about the reigning ACC Coach of the Year!

In fact, I think UVA even being in the running for these kids is a sign that Leitao's making UVA relevant once again; let's not forget Virginia was on Patterson's list for a while as well. As sad as it sounds, the shooting massacre that occurred at Virginia Tech tips the in-state tug-of-war in favor of UVA; we've already seen at least 2 VTech commits back out since the shooting. This is without even considering academics (UVA superior) and facilities (John Paul Jones arena vs. Cassell Coliseum isn't even comparable--I've been in Cassell and it's a dump).

I'm aware of the many rumors that Leitao is extremely hard on his kids, but I have two things to say in response that. First of all, the kids he has (not his recruits) really aren't that good. Second, regardless of how bad they feel about getting yelled at, they will forever be remembered as ACC regular season conference champions, something I'm sure those kids never imagined when they stepped foot on campus; also something they know is a product of the coach they have.

Your argument seems to imply that because Leitao can't recruit like Roy Will or Krzyzewski, he's going to be on the hot seat. Saying that Leitao will be on the hot seat isn't far off from say the same about Sidney Lowe, which is even more preposterous. Both coaches have their programs going in the right direction for the first time in a while, and wouldn't ya know, both beat Duke last year. They're obviously not where they want to be yet, but Leitao's entering his 3rd year as head coach; coaches might get fired ridiculously quick these days, but Leitao's had more than enough early success to build a cushion for himself. The fact that UVA sold out virtually every home game last year while going 14-2 at home all but ensures that.

[yancem]

I actually agree with most of your assessment but I do have a couple of points. First although UVA won the ACC regular season they had a very favorable schedule and had some help from a several teams that performed below expectations. I'm not trying to say it's not an accomplishment but it might not be career builder you think it is. UVA will certainly see some slippage next year and if they don't bring in ACC caliber recuits then Leitao will soon struggle. He should have at least a couple of years to prove himself though. Second Lowe seems to be recruiting quite well so that might not be a great comparison

[VaDukie]

Is there a reason why Duke didn't recruit him, I live in Richmond and I know the school he attends has a good academic reputation. Since when did Duke stop recruiting kids ranked in the top 10 in their class that attend good schools with high academic standards??? Seems like another case of Duke missing out, what will happen if they miss on Monroe, then what?

Saying Benedictine has high academic standards is a bit of a stretch - it's a good school, but it doesn't send kids Duke's way.

[VaDukie]

I think Leitao's intense style may be a reaction to playing for Pete "No discipline" Gillen. I'd guess that as guys get used to playing hard he will calm down. If he doesn't, then UVA may not make that next leap.

[Classof06]

I actually agree with most of your assessment but I do have a couple of points. First although UVA won the ACC regular season they had a very favorable schedule and had some help from a several teams that performed below expectations. I'm not trying to say it's not an accomplishment but it might not be career builder you think it is. UVA will certainly see some slippage next year and if they don't bring in ACC caliber recuits then Leitao will soon struggle. He should have at least a couple of years to prove himself though. Second Lowe seems to be recruiting quite well so that might not be a great comparison

At some point he will have to start landing these recruits, I agree with that. And true, UVA did have an easy ACC schedule. But how many people (including Duke fans) remember or care that Duke had the hardest ACC schedule? An ACC co-title is an ACC co-title; Duke's 8-8 ACC record is Duke's 8-8 ACC record. I just don't believe that missing out on one big recruit going into the 3rd year of a pretty impressive coaching job is going to reverse the momentum that Leitao has created. Especially when the school wasn't even being considered by elite recruits before he got there.

[jimsumner]

I think the idea that Davis was UNC's 4th choice is a significant reach. Davis and Samuels don't overlap at all and I suspect RW would have found a schollie for Davis and Roe or Davis and Aminu, had such an opportunity presented itself. He is a significant addition.

I also think it's absurd to even entertain the possibility that Davis made a premature decision because he thought he might drop in the rankings. The coaches could not possibly care less about where scout.com or rivals.com or anybody else ranks a recruit.

[ACCBBallFan]

As usual agree with Jim.

In addition, no way Dave Leitao is in any job jeopardy. UVA fans should take key person insurance out on Jim Calhoun, because Dave Leitao is likely his succesor at UCONN in a few years,

And VA Tech lost Coleman Collins, Zabian Dowdell and Jamont Gordon, plus Krabbenden and at least one recruit reneged. they still have Deron Washington and AJ Vassallo but UVA still has Singletary and Diane, and more bigs, though they are not all that good.

My guess is UVA finishes ahead of VA Tech this year but neither in top half of ACC. Hokies likely compete with FSU, Wake and Miami for bottom 4, with UVA a notch ahead jostling with MD and BC for 6th in ACC but likely on outside of the NCAA bubble slot.

He may see some of his lefty self in Sean S, but Elliot Williams can watch the double teaming that happens to Singletary again like it did his first two years, before JR Reynolds relieved some pressure this past year. Such would be his fate at UVA until Leitao stops coming in top 5 but not top one in battles for Patteron, Ed Davis et al.

At least he is in the fight which was not the case with time-out Gillen.

[whereinthehellami]

I think the idea that Davis was UNC's 4th choice is a significant reach. Davis and Samuels don't overlap at all and I suspect RW would have found a schollie for Davis and Roe or Davis and Aminu, had such an opportunity presented itself. He is a significant addition.

Obviously I don't know the ins and outs of whats going on but I do follow UNC and am on IC as much as I'm on DBR and I'm not sure that Davis being UNC's 4th choice is that much a reach. Roy targeted Roe first and thought he had him, lost him, then he offered offered Samuels (maybe a 5). After Samuels went to Lousiville, he put the full court press on Aminu, who then signed with Wake. Then Roy put the full court press on Davis and seemingly landed him within 2 weeks. Would he have taken Davis in addition to those other players, sure he would have but he wanted the others first. Why? Davis's dad is a huge fan of UNC and sceptics would say (viva La Sabre) that this was the overiding reason he signed with UNC, his mother apparently wanted UVA (closer to home). So, why would Roy not target Ed Davis first when he had this very big in? Thats the question. Ed Davis is no doubht very talented but there is a reason that Roy didn't have him as his first option. I'm sure he will do well at UNC and they are definately not crying over there and no one is feeling sorry for UNC landing a top 10 talent but it could have been worse is all I'm saying.

Some Coaches don't always take talented payers. Word is that Tyreke Evans is a huge UNC fan/lean and is a top 5 HS player but apparently Roy didn't like the entourage issues that Evans brings to the table and didn't extend an offer.

[Bob Green]

I'm sure he will do well at UNC and they are definately not crying over there and no one is feeling sorry for UNC landing a top 10 talent but it could have been worse is all I'm saying.



Okay, definitely - the most misspelled word on DBR. I have to agree with Jim Sumner on this one. Scout.com has Ed Davis as the # 2 player in the Class of 2008. UNC wanted him all along and they got him.

Bob Green
Yokosuka, Japan

[phillyheel]

Obviously I don't know the ins and outs of whats going on but I do follow UNC and am on IC as much as I'm on DBR and I'm not sure that Davis being UNC's 4th choice is that much a reach. Roy targeted Roe first and thought he had him, lost him, then he offered offered Samuels (maybe a 5). After Samuels went to Lousiville, he put the full court press on Aminu, who then signed with Wake. Then Roy put the full court press on Davis and seemingly landed him within 2 weeks.


This is inaccurate as far as I understand it. Roy had offers out for Drew(1), Holiday (2), Roe (4/3), and Samuels(5) and this represented his 'dream' class so to speak. Once Roe chose MSU he immediately offered Davis and Aminu both. It is more accurate to call Davis the second option, it just so happens that Aminu made his decision before Davis. Samuels was independent of all of them.

I believe he still has 2 offers out on Zeller and Shumpert. Both of these guys were offered later after Roy deemed they had raised their game to a significant level and his first choices chose other options (Derozan would also fit here but firmed his commitment to SoCal). It remains to be seen whether the Zeller offer remains with the Davis commitment. It may have been a first come offer between Davis/Aminu/Zeller or possibly Zeller is deemed a '4 year' talent as opposed to Davis being a '1 year' talent.

[whereinthehellami]

This is inaccurate as far as I understand it. Roy had offers out for Drew(1), Holiday (2), Roe (4/3), and Samuels(5) and this represented his 'dream' class so to speak. Once Roe chose MSU he immediately offered Davis and Aminu both. It is more accurate to call Davis the second option, it just so happens that Aminu made his decision before Davis. Samuels was independent of all of them.

I sit corrected. Got to talk to my sources!

[Troublemaker]

This is inaccurate as far as I understand it. Roy had offers out for Drew(1), Holiday (2), Roe (4/3), and Samuels(5) and this represented his 'dream' class so to speak. Once Roe chose MSU he immediately offered Davis and Aminu both. It is more accurate to call Davis the second option, it just so happens that Aminu made his decision before Davis. Samuels was independent of all of them.

Agreed. And Davis is a fantastic player who's probably better than all the other options, anyway. It'll be like Brandan Wright all over again. Hopefully, like Brandan, he stays one.

[pato]

1) Uconn is deprived of a good recruit, which is nice. Thabeet will probably leave this year, making Uconn thin in the post in 09.

Whoa, is this a hatred tsunami? UConn is not even in the ACC!

Connecticut is already in the process of shoring up the 5 in the form of the mountainous, and reportedly extremely talented, John Riek. I am kind of surprised to not see any discussion of him over here (that is why I am reading here, btw), since he just narrowed his list to Connecticut, Georgetown, Florida and Duke.

Barring that, the class of 09 is pretty loaded. I'm sure Connecticut will pluck a banger from there, in addition to the development of Kelly/Mandeldove/Edwards. None of them did much their first year, but I have faith in Connecticut's ability to develop its big men.

79-78,
Pato

[whereinthehellami]

Phillyheel or anyone else, have you seen Davis play? If so, what are your thoughts?

[duketaylor]

FWIW. I've seen him play twice, in person, in a small gym. I've seen him warm-up once, so I've seen his potential range, his fundamentals, etc. He played for Hanover HS for the first two years, maybe about 3 miles from my home. I saw him as a soph; painfully skinny, maybe 175 at best. He was repeatedly pushed out of the post by Highland Springs' big men (about 6'4" or 6'5" linebackers, no lie, they played football and had bball talent). Ed still had like 20 and 10 in a loss. Plus he can block shots and I mean a lot of shots. He's one of the quickest guys off his feet I've seen, ever. In his soph and junior years I'm guessing he amassed about 15 triple-doubles- points, rebounds and blocks. He does not impress you that much during the game because he's not imposing, at all. But when you look at his numbers the next morning, you're just floored. He plays a quiet game is what I'm saying. The perfect role player. He doesn't, to me, appear to have the ego of many guys we see today. He stays within the flow of the game and lets it just come to him. Even at his current HS, Benedictine, he doesn't appear to want to be "The Man." He is surrounded with quality athletes and just plays ball; I'm really impressed with that. His demeanor on the court is awesome and doesn't even play all that many minutes. That's a testament to how good Benedictine has become,.
Last year Bendictine played Oak Hill twice, lost both times, by a combined 4 points or less, IIRC. I had alot of fun watching the two games I saw, and neither was an Oak Hill game. Benedictine should be ranked top-10 in the country this fall. I'll attend a few games.

I tried to get Duke involved with Ed, but they/we had no interest. I do not know why.

I liken his game to Tayshaun Prince, long and lean, but primarily an outside player, but can certainly finish. Anyone thinking he's possibly one-and -done is way off-base from what I've seen. I see at least three years in college unless he actually strengthens a ton, but athletically, it's all there.
Yes, he's good around the basket in HS, but he won't be immediately in college.

All this being said, it pains me to think he'll be wearing that damn awful color of blue. Makes me wanna puke.

Other than that, I have no opinion on the matter.

For the poster thinking Dave Leitao's in any trouble, you're stone-cold wrong. They love him at UVA, not going anywhere soon.

[whereinthehellami]

He's one of the quickest guys off his feet I've seen, ever. In his soph and junior years I'm guessing he amassed about 15 triple-doubles- points, rebounds and blocks. He does not impress you that much during the game because he's not imposing, at all. But when you look at his numbers the next morning, you're just floored. He plays a quiet game is what I'm saying. The perfect role player. He doesn't, to me, appear to have the ego of many guys we see today. He stays within the flow of the game and lets it just come to him.

Thanks for the interesting comments. He is different than I was thinking with regards to playing on the perimeter. Long, athletic, and quick off your feet aren't good adjectives for UNC players (for Duke fans):)


I tried to get Duke involved with Ed, but they/we had no interest. I do not know why.

I've seen written in various places that his father was huge UNC fan, that might have something to do with the lack of Duke involvement. Why go head to head with Roy if you really have no chance, that just gives the heels ammo in the recruiting warrooms.


I liken his game to Tayshaun Prince, long and lean, but primarily an outside player, but can certainly finish. Anyone thinking he's possibly one-and -done is way off-base from what I've seen. I see at least three years in college unless he actually strengthens a ton, but athletically, it's all there.
Yes, he's good around the basket in HS, but he won't be immediately in college.

I'm not sure about him staying three years. i think he made a great decision (hate saying that) with going with UNC and could be off to the NBA in 1 or 2 years as he will thrive in Roy's system, and the scouts will no doubht take notice of his potential (length/athletiscm). If he went to UVA and had to play more inside it would take him longer to shine. It sounds like he is playing more aggresive this summer and has subsequently been mentioned behind only Monroe in some recruiting circles. Being able to play a PF or SF and alongside Thompson, Stephenson, and maybe Hanny is going to fit him perfectly.


For the poster thinking Dave Leitao's in any trouble, you're stone-cold wrong. They love him at UVA, not going anywhere soon.

I couldn't agree more. People have been saying that he got a lucky schedule last year and while maybe true, he still won, suprising everyone with tying for first place.

I've also seen some people posting that he drives his players too hard and that will catch up with him. Maybe, maybe not. Alot of coaches drive their players hard but if he was that bad, than why did Singletary come back and why didn't the team give up on him last year. There was no shame in losing to a decent UT team.

[Patrick Yates]

I still think that Leitao's chair will start to heat up soon.

After Gillen's 2 or 3 year at UVA, he had a surprisingly good season, and the gregarious, fan and media friendly coach was given a 10 yaer extension. The UVA fans exulted that they had found their Coach K, a charming man who could coach that would lead them to the promised land of perrenial ACC, and national, prominence.

Then the recruiting results kicked in. Gillen was unable to attract dominant recruits. This started a snowball effect. I am not talking about the recruits necessary to be a dominant team in the ACC. Gillen was unable to bring in the type of recruits for UVA to be a respectable ACC team. During the last few years of the Gillen era, UVA was an automatic win for all but the league's bottam dwellers. UVA is able to avoid true perenial loser status (always being in the bottom 2) because UVA has such nice facilities, campus, academics, etc. But they were not competitive. And so, a few years after locking up Gillen for a Decade, they fired him.

Look at Leitao. Yes, he won in his second year. But, he did not recruit any of the best players on that team, outside maybe Diakite (sp? who cares). And I think Diakite has trouble as the primary wing next year now that the oppositions best perimeter defender will be keying on him instead of Reynolds. I mean, no offense to Scheyer, but getting good looks against Jon, a capable defender and athlete, is a walk in the park compared to going against a near lock-down defender such as Nelson, like Diakite will next year.

Let us look at the next 2 years at UVA. Next year, Singletary will still be one of the best players in the league, if not nation. But, unless another scorer steps up, defenses will be able to key on Singletary. He is good enough that he will still put up good numbers, but I do not see who he should pass to. He is the top option on his team, and he may be the only good option, with Diakite being a decent to good option. Outside those guys, the opposing coaches will love it when the other guys shoot. So, as many on the board have agreed I think, UVA is likely destined for the bottom half of the ACC next year. That in a year where the ACC is likely to recieve no more than 4 NCAA bids, with 3 being a possibility. So, NIT next year (maybe). After that, when Singletary, the leading scorer, ball handler, and distributor is gone? Well, the posts are not very good, but Singletary will at least get them a few touches next year. Who will make the poor posts shine when Singletary is not arround to keep the defense honest?

While a down year is comming to UVA next season, the 08-09 season will make this season seem like 99 was to us. Unless UVA gets some recruits this year, UVA will be looking at a bottom 2 finish in the 08-09 season. If there are no game changing recruits coming in, UVA could be looking at 3 straight bad seasons when 09-10 goes in the tank. Seats start to get warm at that point.

Look at Wake. There was some chatter among alums about dissappointment in the program. Many were shocked (I don't know why) that Paul left 2 years early. Many at WFU were convinced he was at least a 3 year guy, so they game WFU a pass for 1 year. But last year was a disaster, and this year will be worse. But, with 3 stud posts comming in next year, with at least 2 virtually assured of being multi-year players, all negative talk will die down. Hope is on the horizon.

UVA is on a downward track, with no hope whatsoever on the horizon. Will Leitao be in trouble next year? No. But after 2-3 bad years, and they are comming, Leitao will feel some heat. Gillen survived so long beause he was a nice guy, capable of charming hte media and the UVA alums. Leitao strikes me as the kind of guy who will tell the media and alums where they can stick it when the negative talk surfaces. If you are Roy or K, you can do that. You have the success and titles to back it up. Leitao shared an ACC regular season title, which, due to the split schedules, is virtually worthless today. Heck, Duke and UNC barely bother to hang regular season titles anymore. And UVA will be nursing that one split title for the next little while. They are bad, getting much worse, and there is no help, at all, comming.

Patrick Yates

[pfrduke]

But, he did not recruit any of the best players on that team, outside maybe Diakite (sp? who cares). And I think Diakite has trouble as the primary wing next year now that the oppositions best perimeter defender will be keying on him instead of Reynolds.

You mean Mamadi Diane, and I'm sure he cares about the spelling (honestly, with as much of an uproar as we fall into around here if someone spells Redick, Pocius, or Shelden wrong, the least we could do in return is extend the same spelling courtesy to opponents (various intentional misspellings of Hansbrough excepted)). Cheick Diakite is a post player for Virginia Tech who saw limited action last season.


I mean, no offense to Scheyer, but getting good looks against Jon, a capable defender and athlete, is a walk in the park compared to going against a near lock-down defender such as Nelson, like Dia[n]e will next year.

Ask Sean Marshall how easy it was to get the ball in his hands, let alone a good shot off, against Scheyer last year. Marshall went 2-11 in Cameron against Duke, largely because Scheyer was in his jock all night long. And that's just one example that I can pull off the top of my head. I'll sound like I'm parroting Jumbo by saying this, but Scheyer is an excellent defender, much better than many people around here seem to realize. Is Nelson better? If pressed, I'd probably say yes. But matching up with Scheyer is far from a walk in the park for the offense.



While a down year is comming to UVA next season, the 08-09 season will make this season seem like 99 was to us. Unless UVA gets some recruits this year, UVA will be looking at a bottom 2 finish in the 08-09 season. If there are no game changing recruits coming in, UVA could be looking at 3 straight bad seasons when 09-10 goes in the tank. Seats start to get warm at that point.

snip ***

UVA is on a downward track, with no hope whatsoever on the horizon. Will Leitao be in trouble next year? No. But after 2-3 bad years, and they are comming, Leitao will feel some heat. Gillen survived so long beause he was a nice guy, capable of charming hte media and the UVA alums. Leitao strikes me as the kind of guy who will tell the media and alums where they can stick it when the negative talk surfaces. If you are Roy or K, you can do that. You have the success and titles to back it up. Leitao shared an ACC regular season title, which, due to the split schedules, is virtually worthless today. . . . And UVA will be nursing that one split title for the next little while. They are bad, getting much worse, and there is no help, at all, comming.

Wow, I guess UVA would be better off just folding up the tents and going home. There's clearly no possibility that Leitao will be able to recruit anyone who knows how to play the game of basketball, and UVA will be left playing 5 frat guys with triple-popped collars against the rest of the ACC. Give me a freaking break. Forecasting that UVA basketball is doomed for the foreseeable future because Ed Davis chose UNC is absolutely absurd. Leitao will consistently be able to recruit from among the top 100-150, and has the facilities, school, and recruiting ability to occasionally snag a top-20 guy. Let's give him more than 2 seasons (both of which produced overachieving teams, and he used different styles to get there each year), before condemning him to Les Robinson-level futility.


Heck, Duke and UNC barely bother to hang regular season titles anymore.

Duke has never, to my memory, hung banners for regular season titles. UNC, on the other hand, recently hung 17 banners for last season alone, including "loudest F**k Yeah! yelled by a freshman point guard," "highest ranked team with the nickname Tar Heels," and "most wins by a team with a coach named Roy Williams" (or at least that's the word on the street). Heck, anything to keep people from having to look at the ugliness that is the Dean Dome ceiling.;)

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Hey all...Interesting thread. Davis must be a pretty good player for you Duke fans to speak so glowingly about him. I haven't seen him, so glad to see what seems to be some honest assesments of his game from those who have.
A quick thought...Scheyer is way underrated, IMO, everywhere around the ACC. I see him dismissed all the times on boards I check. You can give me a player like him anytime. Ill bet anyone right now a key lime pie that he'll start every game the rest of his career at Duke that he's not injured. At a program like Duke, that says alot about his game. He may not have distinguished himself just yet, but you can just see it coming. All the slow un-athletic "white guy" terms apply, even tho I think he's a better athlete at 6'5 than he's given credit for. (Certainly don't mean to sound racist, but black and white players know what I mean...Savvy,gritty,hustling "team" guy etc...but like Steve Kerr was....I think he's gonna be a player. 2nd round NBA good.
Of course, you old timers will take my opinion with a grain of salt, after all I did miss on Bersticker ;)
Wheat/"/"/"

[Stray Gator]

Hey all...Interesting thread. Davis must be a pretty good player for you Duke fans to speak so glowingly about him. I haven't seen him, so glad to see what seems to be some honest assesments of his game from those who have.
A quick thought...Scheyer is way underrated, IMO, everywhere around the ACC. I see him dismissed all the times on boards I check. You can give me a player like him anytime. Ill bet anyone right now a key lime pie that he'll start every game the rest of his career at Duke that he's not injured. At a program like Duke, that says alot about his game. He may not have distinguished himself just yet, but you can just see it coming. All the slow un-athletic "white guy" terms apply, even tho I think he's a better athlete at 6'5 than he's given credit for. (Certainly don't mean to sound racist, but black and white players know what I mean...Savvy,gritty,hustling "team" guy etc...but like Steve Kerr was....I think he's gonna be a player. 2nd round NBA good.
Of course, you old timers will take my opinion with a grain of salt, after all I did miss on Bersticker ;)
Wheat/"/"/"

************

Hey Wheat...long time. Delighted to see you back in the neighborhood again. How's the fishin' these days? BTW, are you still in the same location? If so, we're living in Tampa now, so you're just a short drive down the road.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Yo Stray,
Fishing is all good. Check out the FLW Outdoors show on Fox Sports this Sunday at 11am for a top 10 performance on the Potomac from yours truly:)
I'm off to Vegas for some R&R for a week and then to Salt Lake for the Outdoor Retailer show, so I won't be back until mid august. Call sometime after that and we'll get out for a snook and redfish trip.
( http://4tarpon.com/ )
'Ol Roy has built what looks like one of the best teams I've seen in a while at UNC, look out. No superstars, no apparent ego cases, but lots of really good players who seem to fit all the pieces of the puzzle. Many underrated too...Green, Frasor, Thompson, Ginyard, even QT. Great depth, talent at the point and leadership in the post. I have high hopes for this team.

Stay in touch..
Wheat/"/"/" AWOG

[gw67]

Wheat/"/"/" - Good to hear from you. I would add Stephenson to your list of underrated players at UNC. He didn't play much last year but it appeared to me that he will be a strong defensive player inside for the Heels. IMO, they will have a core of nine players and Thompson will average in double figures along with Hansbrough, Ellington and Lawson.

gw67

[Scoring Point]

Patrick,

I think you are overplaying the analogy to Pete Gillen and his tenure at UVa. A more appropriate one might be to Leitao's mentor Jim Calhoun, and the challenges he faced in taking over the UConn program in the mid 80s (see recent Poop Sheet article below).

http://www.accsports.com/whats_the_poop/xxx/wtpxxx20.jsp

And let me second the welcoming back of Wheat!!!

[Wheat/"/"/"]

GW67,
Good to have a couple of days to hang around...I check things out all the time but just can't seem to find the time to post like the old days.
I didn't mean to hijack the thread into a Carolina discussion, but hey why not? UNC fans are expected to be a pain, right?:)
I like Stephenson, but I think he is viewed about right as a good, solid player that can get better, but underrated? Nah, I think he's judged about right by most things I read. I'd say he's destined to be a good career backup guy. Just ahead of Copeland.
QT on the other hand is still underrated, IMO. I see posters everywhere dissing him because he's made some mental mistakes at some key moments. And I admit that the mental game is big, but some kids just take time, (which is running out), to adjust to the college game. He seems to be one of those. I'm betting he is going to be one of those Carolina guys that shines his senior year, like Hubert Davis did. QT has talent, and would start for a lot of big Division 1 schools. He's long and quick, good handle,(not great),solid defense and sees the floor. His passing is sometimes great, and sometimes not, especially when he underestimates the quickness of the college players as opposed to what he saw in HS. He'll never be a go-to scorer, but he will get 10 a game if he gets reasonable PT. Look for him to surprise everybody and get quality minutes this year.
Thompson is the stud waiting to bust out. He just needed to get rid of the baby fat from HS and gather some confidence, both of which he seems to be doing this summer. UNC is going to be really strong inside with him and Hans, and I'll go out on a limb and say moreso than last year with Hans and Wright. Thompson seems to have better shooting touch around the basket than Wright had. That should open things up a little for Ellington who struggled with his shot last year but who everybody that pays attention knows is a great shooter. His stroke is jusy too pretty to stay down for long. If he makes that Georgetown shot last year, he would be a guaranteed monster this season. As it stands he still has to prove the hype.
Green is better than many people give him credit for, I'd say. His game reminds me of Okulaja's. Not spectacular, but solid in every way. He could have a big year now that Reyshawn Terry is gone and especially if Ellington opens things up by shooting the rock. He's got a little bit of a killer attitude which I like. He wants to take the big shots
The guy I want to see is this Graves kid. I've never seen him play, but some posters I respect around say he's a really good "tweener" that will cause all kinds of problems for defenses... They say people are sleeping on him. He should see some time behind Green if he's that good. We'll see...

Wheat/"/"/"

[ACCBBallFan]

************

Hey Wheat...long time. Delighted to see you back in the neighborhood again. How's the fishin' these days? BTW, are you still in the same location? If so, we're living in Tampa now, so you're just a short drive down the road.

Sounds like we're practically neighbors as I am an hour or so north of you in Inverness, Citrus County FL. Just took out a 5 year fsihing license - so looking for some body with a boat.

Regarding Leitao, he has not exactly been failing on the reruiting trail. He has the opposite problem of too many butts on his bench.

Here’s the link

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/index.php?title=summer_hoops_preview_bottom_half&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

“Oh, and you might notice that UVA has 14 players on scholarship. The NCAA says you can only have 13. Leitao says they'll fix the problem before the season starts. That means someone on the roster is going to have to pull a Wes Miller.”

So if red shirts do count against the 13 scholarship limit, somebody gonna have to pay their own freight or have their scholarship pulled which would probably mean they sit out a year and go elsewhere.

"Recruits: G Jeff Jones (85), F Mike Scott, G Mustapha Farrakhan, G Sam Zeglinski

Telep's analysis: Scott's the most talented and he's an eventual starter. Farrakhan can shoot the 3 and Jeff Jones is a scorer, neither is a traditional point guard. They'll bring Zeglinski along slowly.

Projected starting lineup: Singletary, Harris, Diane, Joseph, Soroye"

Looks like Jamil Tucker was Leitao's best recruit last year

http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=9&c=8&cfg=bb&toinid=360&yr=2006