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View Full Version : Kendall Marshall: A Poor Man's Scott Machado



gam7
12-05-2011, 03:05 PM
Kendall Marshall runs the point for an offense that is just about tailor-made for a point guard to rack up video-game-level assist totals. Carolina plays at the 10th fastest tempo in all of Division I, and the team is loaded with future pros, including a likely all-lottery front line. And Marshall has taken full advantage of the situation, averaging 10.0 assists per game, including three games in which he has tallied at least 14 assists. All the while, he has done a good job of protecting the ball with an assist to turnover ratio of 3.6:1.

Despite all of Marshall's production as an assist man, he doesn't quite stack up to Iona's Scott Machado. Machado averages 11.4 assists per game with an even slightly better assist to turnover ratio of 3.8:1. Machado has put up these numbers for a team that plays at a slower tempo than UNC's (17th in the country), and with a supporting cast that pales in comparison to Carolina's in terms of talent. What's more, Machado is averaging 2.3 steals per game to Marshall's 1.1 and averages 15.4 ppg (.391 from 3-point range) and 4.3 rebounds per game to Marshall's 5.1 ppg (.333 from 3) and 2.8 rebounds per game.

It is true that North Carolina has played a more difficult non-conference schedule (12th) than Iona (60th), but Iona's schedule has been respectable, their only loss coming against Purdue (Machado went for 14 and 11 assists), and they crushed Maryland by 26 (Machado going for 15 and 15).

All of this is to say that as good as Marshall has been, Scott Machado has been even better.

For those wondering, Avery Johnson holds the NCAA record for single season assist average when he averaged 13.3 assists per game in the 1987-88 season. UNLV's Mark Wade holds the single-season record for total assists when he handed out 406 dimes in 1986-87. He averaged 10.4 assists per game that season. Whether Machado can approach the record will depend substantially on whether he can keep up his torrid pace and how far Iona goes in its conference tournament and the NCAA tournament (UNLV played 39 games the season Wade set the overall record).

Billy Dat
12-05-2011, 03:17 PM
I live in the NYC burbs and have been planning to take a brief trek to New Rochelle, NY to see Mr. Machado in person. Checking their schedule, you see the opposite of Duke...a mid major who is basically on the road for the first 1/3rd of the season playing bigger name schools.

subzero02
12-06-2011, 12:06 AM
I haven't seen Machado play yet but it sounds like he is an amazing player to say the least. I do have a problem with insulting a great player from the evil shade of blue to convey this idea. Save that pettiness for the IC folk.

Steven43
12-06-2011, 09:43 AM
I haven't seen Machado play yet but it sounds like he is an amazing player to say the least. I do have a problem with insulting a great player from the evil shade of blue to convey this idea. Save that pettiness for the IC folk.
I fail to see where gam7 insulted Kendall Marshall in his post. Perhaps I missed it
While we're on the subject of Marshall, I have to say I'm concerned about Duke's ability to impede his game enough to disrupt the Carolina offense. I think it's very important that we put a really strong defender on him, I'm just not sure we have one on the roster. In the past we had really good defenders at the point like Chris Duhon, Sean Dockery, Nolan Smith, etc. A lot of Blue Devil fans seem to think Tyler Thornton could be that guy. He reminds me of Dockery in that he is primarily a defender, but he's just not as quick and agile as Sean was. Seth is crafty on D, but he's also not quick enough to greatly impede an opposing point guard. Austin is more than a match for Marshal athletically, but I'd hate to see him give up too much effort on the defensive end. So, it looks like we could be in trouble against UNC if we don't find a way to disrupt Marshall. I hope I'm either wrong in my assessments or that there's a way I hadn't thought of (very likely).

tommy
12-06-2011, 09:54 AM
I fail to see where gam7 insulted Kendall Marshall in his post. Perhaps I missed it
While we're on the subject of Marshall, I have to say I'm concerned about Duke's ability to impede his game enough to disrupt the Carolina offense. I think it's very important that we put a really strong defender on him, I'm just not sure we have one on the roster. In the past we had really good defenders at the point like Chris Duhon, Sean Dockery, Nolan Smith, etc. A lot of Blue Devil fans seem to think Tyler Thornton could be that guy. He reminds me of Dockery in that he is primarily a defender, but he's just not as quick and agile as Sean was. Seth is crafty on D, but he's also not quick enough to greatly impede an opposing point guard. Austin is more than a match for Marshal athletically, but I'd hate to see him give up too much effort on the defensive end. So, it looks like we could be in trouble against UNC if we don't find a way to disrupt Marshall. I hope I'm either wrong in my assessments or that there's a way I hadn't thought of (very likely).

There are multiple threads going on the boards discussing the merits of inserting Quinn Cook into the lineup with more frequency or even starting him, for several reasons, including his ability to apply greater ball pressure than does Seth while not giving up as much offensively as we do with Ty.

CDu
12-06-2011, 10:23 AM
There are multiple threads going on the boards discussing the merits of inserting Quinn Cook into the lineup with more frequency or even starting him, for several reasons, including his ability to apply greater ball pressure than does Seth while not giving up as much offensively as we do with Ty.

Has anyone really made this argument for Cook? I seem to recall most of the push for Cook to start being based on his theoretical (because we haven't seen it yet at the college level) advantage in running the offense as a "true PG." The theoretical (because we haven't seen enough of him to know yet) argument against is that his defense may not be ready.

Kedsy
12-06-2011, 02:23 PM
There are multiple threads going on the boards discussing the merits of inserting Quinn Cook into the lineup with more frequency or even starting him, for several reasons, including his ability to apply greater ball pressure than does Seth while not giving up as much offensively as we do with Ty.

Where do you get the idea that Quinn has more "ability to apply greater ball pressure" than Seth does? As CDu said, we certainly haven't seen anything at the college level to support that.

tommy
12-06-2011, 08:23 PM
Where do you get the idea that Quinn has more "ability to apply greater ball pressure" than Seth does? As CDu said, we certainly haven't seen anything at the college level to support that.

What I said was that there was discussion on the boards of the idea of Quinn's minutes increasing. I went back and looked at some of those threads and you're right, more posters were talking about it in terms of Quinn's ability to run the team as a more traditional point guard, meaning as a distributor, but there was discussion as well of whether the team's defense would be improved were Quinn to take some minutes from Andre.

You and CDu are right - Quinn has not yet proven the ability to apply consistent ball pressure. IIRC, though, he was regarded as a pretty good defender coming out of HS, and perhaps that's why there is (at this point) wishful thinking on the boards that he could excel in that role at this level as well.

Kedsy
12-06-2011, 09:29 PM
You and CDu are right - Quinn has not yet proven the ability to apply consistent ball pressure. IIRC, though, he was regarded as a pretty good defender coming out of HS, and perhaps that's why there is (at this point) wishful thinking on the boards that he could excel in that role at this level as well.

I expect that eventually this will be the case. Whether it happens this year or next year is the question. Personally, I suspect the latter, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

jv001
12-06-2011, 09:44 PM
I expect that eventually this will be the case. Whether it happens this year or next year is the question. Personally, I suspect the latter, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

I have found that Duke fans have different perceptions on this current squad. Here is what I've heard regarding various players: Austin Rivers is overrated and is a ball hog. Then from another fan, Austin Rivers is the best player on the team and will be a pro next year. Andre Dawkins does not hustle and plays terrible defense. He scores 20 one game and only gets 5 or 6 the next. He needs to be on the bench. Then another fan says Andre is our best player and can shoot better than JJ. Quinn Cook is not a Div1 player. I don't know why we recruited him. Then another fan says Quinn Cook should be starting. There are several more that I could list, but you get the drift. Beauty is in the eye of the holder and in this case the eye belongs to Coach K. He sees how our guys perform in practice and he knows the ceiling for each player. I trust Coach to make the decisions that will produce the best team we can put on the court come March. GoDuke!

Scorp4me
12-06-2011, 09:51 PM
I guess it's just me, but Marshall reminds me of Greg Paulus. Greg was an assist machine his freshman year, but lacked the ability to create for himself and was criticized for being unathletic. Marshall is certainly benefiting from the teammates he is working with and I have already heard his athleticism questioned this year.

That being said, while Paulus had by most standards a disappointing end to his career, I was always pleased with his play and think he suffered from having a stellar freshman year. That end up being the closest comparison between the two and Marshall's hardest to overcome.

Steven43
12-07-2011, 12:28 AM
I guess it's just me, but Marshall reminds me of Greg Paulus. Greg was an assist machine his freshman year, but lacked the ability to create for himself and was criticized for being unathletic. Marshall is certainly benefiting from the teammates he is working with and I have already heard his athleticism questioned this year.

That being said, while Paulus had by most standards a disappointing end to his career, I was always pleased with his play and think he suffered from having a stellar freshman year. That end up being the closest comparison between the two and Marshall's hardest to overcome.

Boy, I don't know about comparing Marshall and Paulus. While Greg had a pretty strong freshman year in regard to assists, 5.2 per game is not a particularly outstanding number considering the amount of minutes he played. I don't know Marshall's numbers, but I don't think I really need to in order to compare him to Greg. Marshall is really gifted at running an offense. He finds the open man time after time and makes crisp, precise passes for very easy baskets. He seems to be a step ahead most of the time; his court vision is on a high level. Yes, he benefits from the talent Carolina puts on the floor around him, but he makes his teammates look better, also. And while he is no Austin Rivers when it comes to athleticism he really doesn't need to be. His mature understanding of the game allows him to excel. I fear what he can do on the court just about as much as I did Lawson at his best. As much as I outright despise UNC, it is exciting, and a bit disconcerting, to go up against them when they are this good.

CDu
12-07-2011, 07:52 AM
I guess it's just me, but Marshall reminds me of Greg Paulus. Greg was an assist machine his freshman year, but lacked the ability to create for himself and was criticized for being unathletic. Marshall is certainly benefiting from the teammates he is working with and I have already heard his athleticism questioned this year.

That being said, while Paulus had by most standards a disappointing end to his career, I was always pleased with his play and think he suffered from having a stellar freshman year. That end up being the closest comparison between the two and Marshall's hardest to overcome.

I don't see it. I could agree that Marshall reminds of the idea of what Paulus was supposed to be.

Paulus wasn't an assist machine as a freshman. He averaged 5.2 apg in 32.3 mpg (about 6.5 per 40 min). That's solid, but nothing special. I don't think he had a stellar freshman year, but was very solid. He led the ACC in assists per game that year in large part because it was it was a down year for ACC point guards. Unfortunately, as a PG, he never panned out after that, and the offense had to change to address this. Paulus became a good shooter and decent scorer but not a very good PG.

Conversely, Marshall averaged 6.1 apg in 24.6 mpg (about 10 per 40 min). He WAS an assist machine. And so far this year, he's upped that rate and is averaging over 9 apg in 31 mpg (about 12 per 40). So it doesn't appear that he's having problems living up to his freshman year at all.

I don't see any scenario in which Marshall isn't a good PG, but I think he'll likely remain a questionable scorer. The only real similarities to Paulus are that neither is an explosive athlete at PG and neither is known for being a good defender. Other than that, they're pretty dissimilar in my opinion.

Wander
12-07-2011, 09:32 AM
Yeah, saying Marshall is what we hoped Paulus would be is probably a pretty good description. If he decides to stay for four years, I bet he breaks Hurley's all-time assists record. I think he's the best passer I've ever seen in college. Luckily for us, he can't do anything really well EXCEPT pass, and K exploited this last year to beat Carolina.

CDu
12-07-2011, 11:39 AM
Yeah, saying Marshall is what we hoped Paulus would be is probably a pretty good description. If he decides to stay for four years, I bet he breaks Hurley's all-time assists record. I think he's the best passer I've ever seen in college. Luckily for us, he can't do anything really well EXCEPT pass, and K exploited this last year to beat Carolina.

Yeah, a large part of what Marshall does well is seeing an opening (even a small one) and exploiting it with a great pass. Defensively, if you can apply consistent ball pressure on Marshall AND have your other defenders stay focused and in good positions against their man, you can limit Marshall's effectiveness greatly. And if you limit the number of easy baskets Marshall creates for others, nobody else is really a consistent creator of offesne. Of course, that's hard to do, which is why Marshall's stats are so good and why UNC has tended to score pretty efficiently since Marshall took over at PG.

Last year in the ACC championship we were able to do that. In that game, Nolan Smith controlled Marshall and our team defense was terrific. However, we struggled with it in 3 of the other four halves against UNC, resulting in a tough road loss and forcing the need for an amazing comeback at home (which we pulled off!).

This year we don't have Nolan Smith to apply the on-ball pressure, and I haven't seen anything from our current backcourt yet to suggest there's someone to fill that role. It'll be important for our team defense to be ready to minimize the openings. Hopefully we're up to the challenge, and hopefully our perimeter defense (especially on-ball defense) gets better as well.

Scorp4me
12-07-2011, 01:20 PM
I'm not saying Marshall is a poor man's Paulus, perhaps the other way around maybe. Particularly when considering their freshman years. But it continues to amaze me the lack of respect Paulus got/gets even on this board. Should have expected the responses.

But did someone really just call me "Boy"? Or was that a lead in to the statement like "Gosh" lol.:)

CDu
12-07-2011, 01:27 PM
I'm not saying Marshall is a poor man's Paulus, perhaps the other way around maybe. Particularly when considering their freshman years. But it continues to amaze me the lack of respect Paulus got/gets even on this board. Should have expected the responses.

I don't think I'm disrespecting Paulus when saying that I see very little similarity between him and Marshall. In fact, I wasn't even saying that Marshall is a better player (though I also believe that to be true, unfortunately). I was just saying I don't think their games are very similar at all.

Paulus was a solid contributor and a tough kid. He gave it everything he had every night, and he turned into a good weapon as a shooter during his sophomore and junior years. But he wasn't a terribly good college PG. He struggled against pressure defense and couldn't create for others. It's why we switched to the weave offense for a couple of years - to try to create motion and take the pressure of an individual ballhandler.


But did someone really just call me "Boy"? Or was that a lead in to the statement like "Gosh" lol.:)

I didn't say it so I can't speak definitively, but I definitely read that as a "gosh-type" lead in and not a name-calling.

Scorp4me
12-07-2011, 01:48 PM
I didn't say it so I can't speak definitively, but I definitely read that as a "gosh-type" lead in and not a name-calling.

I did too:)

sagegrouse
12-07-2011, 03:34 PM
But did someone really just call me "Boy"? Or was that a lead in to the statement like "Gosh" lol.:)

I read it as short for "Boy, oh boy!"

sagegrouse