Poll discussion, week of 12/5

[JasonEvans]

Coaches poll (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings) is out. We are 5th. Carolina is 6th.

Kentucky #1 by just 9 points over Ohio State.

No other ACC team ranked (unless you count Syracuse at #3 and Pitt at #17).

Tommy's Harvard Crimson are ranked #24. I have not heard when the last time was that Harvard was ranked but I would not be surprised to hear "never" as the answer.

-Jason "fun stuff for Tommy" Evans

[JasonEvans]

AP Poll has Harvard at #25. It is their first time ever being ranked.

AP has Carolina at #4, moving up a spot from last week. We tumbled a bit in the AP poll to #7. Apparently, losing on the road to the #2 team drops you quite a bit. I suspect the size of the loss contributed quite a bit to our tumble.

--Jason "early season polls... not sure why I ever bother ;) " Evans

[snowdenscold]

Tommy's Harvard Crimson are ranked #24. I have not heard when the last time was that Harvard was ranked but I would not be surprised to hear "never" as the answer.


http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/41106/harvard-shakes-one-monkey-off-its-back


In the meantime, though, Harvard finally rid itself of another less infamous program marker. Today, for the first time in school history, the Crimson are ranked in the AP top 25 (and, for that matter, in the coaches' poll, too). Surely the school's final clubs -- and the only thing I know about final clubs are what I saw in "The Social Network," which I can only assume was 100 percent accurate (kidding) -- are currently celebrating accordingly.

Edit: Oh didn't see you already confirmed that in your 2nd post.

[FerryFor50]

AP Poll has Harvard at #25. It is their first time ever being ranked.

AP has Carolina at #4, moving up a spot from last week. We tumbled a bit in the AP poll to #7. Apparently, losing on the road to the #2 team drops you quite a bit. I suspect the size of the loss contributed quite a bit to our tumble.

--Jason "early season polls... not sure why I ever bother ;) " Evans

And losing on the road to the #1 team moves you up a spot, too. Gotta love the AP and their ties to a journalism school. :rolleyes:

[FellowTraveler]

And losing on the road to the #1 team moves you up a spot, too. Gotta love the AP and their ties to a journalism school. :rolleyes:

Carolina passed one team it had been behind: Duke. Between the two polls, Carolina beat Wisconsin (ranked #9 at the time) and lost on the road to the #1 team in the country by one point. Between the two polls, Duke lost on the road to the number two team in the country by 22 points.

There is, in short, a very good case for moving Carolina ahead of Duke.

[magjayran]

Carolina passed one team it had been behind: Duke. Between the two polls, Carolina beat Wisconsin (ranked #9 at the time) and lost on the road to the #1 team in the country by one point. Between the two polls, Duke lost on the road to the number two team in the country by 22 points.

There is, in short, a very good case for moving Carolina ahead of Duke.

Maybe but UNC has lost two out of their last three including a convincing loss to an unranked at the time UNLV. I'm not really bent out of shape about it since it's early December.

[Newton_14]

Carolina passed one team it had been behind: Duke. Between the two polls, Carolina beat Wisconsin (ranked #9 at the time) and lost on the road to the #1 team in the country by one point. Between the two polls, Duke lost on the road to the number two team in the country by 22 points.

There is, in short, a very good case for moving Carolina ahead of Duke.

Not that it matters, but UNC won the game at home by 3 points, and have now lost 2 out of their last 3, one of the losses against an unranked team who just got blown out by another unranked team. Body of work should matter.

But again, it doesn't really matter who is ranked ahead of who. UNC will stay where they are or rise in the near future as it will be awhile before they play a good opponent again.

[CDu]

Not that it matters, but UNC won the game at home by 3 points, and have now lost 2 out of their last 3, one of the losses against an unranked team who just got blown out by another unranked team. Body of work should matter.

Yes, but they already got penalized for the UNLV loss in last week's poll. Seems like double jeopardy to ding them twice for one loss. This week, they won a close game at home against a top-10 team and lost a closer game on the road against the #1 team. As such, I think their ranking is appropriate.


But again, it doesn't really matter who is ranked ahead of who. UNC will stay where they are or rise in the near future as it will be awhile before they play a good opponent again.

Yes, a poll in early December is basically irrelevant.

[Newton_14]

Yes, but they already got penalized for the UNLV loss in last week's poll. Seems like double jeopardy to ding them twice for one loss. This week, they won a close game at home against a top-10 team and lost a closer game on the road against the #1 team. As such, I think their ranking is appropriate.



Yes, a poll in early December is basically irrelevant.

Yep, fair rebuttal.

Anyway, all I want for Christmas is for the ACC to get more teams in the rankings besides Duke & UNC. Don't care who. State, Clemson, UVA, FSU, Vatech, somebody, please?


to pull a Jason..

Signed: Newton "Not counting on Santa making that wish come true" 14

[Devilsfan]

We're lucky to stay in the top ten after the performance in Columbus, Ohio.

[Kedsy]

We're lucky to stay in the top ten after the performance in Columbus, Ohio.

Yeah, because one game should almost certainly trump the previous seven.

[loldevilz]

I'm trying not to be biased against UNC here, but how in the world is Carolina in the top 10. And how in the world did they actually move UP a spot???

I watched that Wisconsin game and Wisconsin nearly beat them at the Dean Dome. Sure Wisconsin was in the top 10 at the time, but then Wisconsin promptly lost at home to Marquette! If UNC was really that good they would've rolled Wisconsin.

Then they lost to Kentucky which on paper doesn't bad because Kentucky is number 1,but we all know Kentucky's ranking is almost entirely do to March projections. At this point in the season they are a team that starts 3 freshman, and 2 sophomores. That is a team with 3 freshman and 2 sophomores beat a team that brings back their entire starting lineup from last year!!!

I just don't think either of those games is indicative of a team that is top 5 in the country, not to mention that bad UNLV loss where they got killed on the boards by a smaller team and couldn't guard the perimeter. Frankly, a team like UNC should be rolling these teams considering that they are a much more veteran team.

I know its early, but I am starting to believe that this UNC team is just not the dominant team the media says they are. We all know that last year UNC's path to the elite eight was absurdly easy. Their first two games were in Charlotte (home) and they barely won. Then they luckily drew a Marquette team that wasn't particularly good. And then they lost to the 4 seed Kentucky team. In the ACC they won most of their games by the slightest of margins and the ACC wasn't particularly impressive.

Honestly, this UNC team's only really impressive is last year in the Dean Dome against us. And we all know that the rivarly can produce unusual performances. Not to mention that in the rematch we absolutely beat them down.

[uh_no]

I'm trying not to be biased against UNC here, but how in the world is Carolina in the top 10. And how in the world did they actually move UP a spot???


Because they led the #1 team in the country for a large portion of the game and clearly played on their level for most of it? Honestly, the fact that marquette beat wisconsin is largely irrelevent in terms of how good UNC is. UNC was supposed to beat wisconsin and they did. They were supposed to lose to UK, and they did (by the smallest of margins at that). I don't know who you would put in front of UNC right now.

[Wander]

but we all know Kentucky's ranking is almost entirely do to March projections.

No, it isn't. Either Kentucky or Ohio State (or maaaaaaaaaybe Mizzou) is playing the best basketball in the country right now.

[Greg_Newton]

Then they lost to Kentucky which on paper doesn't bad because Kentucky is number 1,but we all know Kentucky's ranking is almost entirely do to March projections. At this point in the season they are a team that starts 3 freshman, and 2 sophomores. That is a team with 3 freshman and 2 sophomores beat a team that brings back their entire starting lineup from last year!!!

UK also routed a Kansas team that we barely beat in a hard-fought battle, so I'm not sure I buy that. And what if Davis had jumped a second late, and Henson's shot had gone in? Then what would UNC deserve to be ranked, after beating the #1 team on their home court? Would that somehow make them the #2-3 best team instead of #10?

I'm all for UNC being as overrated as possible, anyway. Makes it all the better when they fail in any way. :D

[loldevilz]

UK also routed a Kansas team that we barely beat in a hard-fought battle, so I'm not sure I buy that. And what if Davis had jumped a second late, and Henson's shot had gone in? Then what would UNC deserve to be ranked, after beating the #1 team on their home court? Would that somehow make them the #2-3 best team instead of #10?

I'm all for UNC being as overrated as possible, anyway. Makes it all the better when they fail in any way. :D

This just isn't true. Kentucky beat Kansas by 10 and we beat them by 7.

I also forgot to mention that UNLV lost to Wichita State by 19! I guess perception is reality here.

[CDu]

This just isn't true. Kentucky beat Kansas by 10 and we beat them by 7.

I also forgot to mention that UNLV lost to Wichita State by 19! I guess perception is reality here.

It's an early season poll. Of course perception is reality to some degree. But does it really make any difference whether UNC is #4, 5, or 15 right now? There's an entire ACC season to play. We'll play them at least twice, and perhaps three times before tournament seeding is complete. At which point, each team will get a seed. It just doesn't matter right now.