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View Full Version : Plus/Minus 2011-2012 through Ohio State



Troublemaker
11-30-2011, 08:57 PM
Ohio St Box

+----------+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Opponent | Player | Min:Sec | Duke | Opp | +/- | Off | Net |
+----------+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Ohio St | Josh Hairston | 12:37 | 30 | 25 | 5 | -27 | 32 |
| Ohio St | Michael Gbinije | 16:05 | 31 | 30 | 1 | -23 | 24 |
| Ohio St | Tyler Thornton | 08:15 | 15 | 16 | -1 | -21 | 20 |
| Ohio St | Quinn Cook | 14:19 | 25 | 29 | -4 | -18 | 14 |
| Ohio St | Miles Plumlee | 16:31 | 25 | 35 | -10 | -12 | 2 |
| Ohio St | Seth Curry | 26:09 | 40 | 56 | -16 | -6 | -10 |
| Ohio St | Ryan Kelly | 15:24 | 19 | 36 | -17 | -5 | -12 |
| Ohio St | Andre Dawkins | 18:47 | 21 | 43 | -22 | 0 | -22 |
| Ohio St | Mason Plumlee | 35:28 | 52 | 74 | -22 | 0 | -22 |
| Ohio St | Austin Rivers | 36:25 | 57 | 81 | -24 | 2 | -26 |
+----------+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+

Cumulative through Ohio St


+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Player | Avg Min | Duke | Opp | +/- | Off | Net |
+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Miles Plumlee | 15:39 | 239 | 185 | 54 | 8 | 46 |
| Seth Curry | 32:04 | 509 | 463 | 46 | 16 | 30 |
| Andre Dawkins | 27:34 | 419 | 374 | 45 | 17 | 28 |
| Quinn Cook | 08:31 | 135 | 95 | 40 | 22 | 18 |
| Austin Rivers | 31:10 | 488 | 450 | 38 | 24 | 14 |
| Ryan Kelly | 26:41 | 420 | 394 | 26 | 36 | -10 |
| Mason Plumlee | 31:09 | 465 | 439 | 26 | 36 | -10 |
| Tyler Thornton | 16:49 | 262 | 239 | 23 | 39 | -16 |
| Josh Hairston | 07:34 | 93 | 73 | 20 | 34 | -14 |
| Todd Zafirovski | 03:04 | 3 | 4 | -1 | 42 | -43 |
| Michael Gbinije | 08:38 | 62 | 69 | -7 | 40 | -47 |
+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+

Cumulative through Kansas (for comparison's sake)


+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Player | Avg Min | Duke | Opp | +/- | Off | Net |
+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Andre Dawkins | 28:49 | 398 | 331 | 67 | 17 | 50 |
| Miles Plumlee | 15:31 | 214 | 150 | 64 | 20 | 44 |
| Austin Rivers | 30:25 | 431 | 369 | 62 | 22 | 40 |
| Seth Curry | 32:55 | 469 | 407 | 62 | 22 | 40 |
| Mason Plumlee | 30:32 | 413 | 365 | 48 | 36 | 12 |
| Quinn Cook | 07:42 | 110 | 66 | 44 | 40 | 4 |
| Ryan Kelly | 28:17 | 401 | 358 | 43 | 41 | 2 |
| Tyler Thornton | 18:02 | 247 | 223 | 24 | 60 | -36 |
| Josh Hairston | 06:34 | 63 | 48 | 15 | 61 | -46 |
| Todd Zafirovski | 03:04 | 3 | 4 | -1 | 42 | -43 |
| Michael Gbinije | 06:09 | 31 | 39 | -8 | 63 | -71 |
+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+

Troublemaker
11-30-2011, 09:05 PM
Per 40 through Ohio St

Note: by rounding to a whole number, a few of the OFF or NET numbers will appear to be off by 1.


+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Player | Avg Min | Duke | Opp | +/- | Off | Net |
+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Quinn Cook | 40:00 | 79 | 56 | 23 | 13 | 11 |
| Josh Hairston | 40:00 | 82 | 64 | 18 | 30 | -12 |
| Miles Plumlee | 40:00 | 76 | 59 | 17 | 3 | 15 |
| Andre Dawkins | 40:00 | 76 | 68 | 8 | 3 | 5 |
| Tyler Thornton | 40:00 | 78 | 71 | 7 | 12 | -5 |
| Seth Curry | 40:00 | 79 | 72 | 7 | 2 | 5 |
| Austin Rivers | 40:00 | 78 | 72 | 6 | 4 | 2 |
| Ryan Kelly | 40:00 | 79 | 74 | 5 | 7 | -2 |
| Mason Plumlee | 40:00 | 75 | 70 | 4 | 6 | -2 |
| Michael Gbinije | 40:00 | 72 | 80 | -8 | 46 | -54 |
| Todd Zafirovski | 40:00 | 39 | 52 | -13 | 548 | -561 |
+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+

Per 40 through Ohio St, omitting Presbyterian

In the previous thread, I theorized that the Presbyterian game is throwing off the Per 40 numbers. Turns out it wouldn't make much of a difference. Still would not read too much into early season numbers. (Certainly I don't believe Mason is the least important regular, for example!).


+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Player | Avg Min | Duke | Opp | +/- | Off | Net |
+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Quinn Cook | 40:00 | 73 | 56 | 18 | -1 | 19 |
| Josh Hairston | 40:00 | 77 | 64 | 14 | 4 | 10 |
| Miles Plumlee | 40:00 | 69 | 61 | 9 | 0 | 9 |
| Tyler Thornton | 40:00 | 78 | 72 | 6 | 1 | 5 |
| Seth Curry | 40:00 | 77 | 74 | 3 | 0 | 3 |
| Andre Dawkins | 40:00 | 72 | 71 | 2 | 3 | -1 |
| Ryan Kelly | 40:00 | 76 | 75 | 1 | 3 | -1 |
| Austin Rivers | 40:00 | 75 | 75 | 1 | 3 | -3 |
| Mason Plumlee | 40:00 | 73 | 73 | 1 | 3 | -2 |
| Michael Gbinije | 40:00 | 73 | 87 | -14 | -2 | -12 |
+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+

Troublemaker
11-30-2011, 09:37 PM
Player Individual Game Results


+--------------+-----------------+----------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Opponent | Player | Min:Sec | Duke | Opp | +/- | Off | Net |
+--------------+-----------------+----------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Belmont | Andre Dawkins | 00:20:38 | 34 | 38 | -4 | 5 | -9 |
| Presbyterian | Andre Dawkins | 00:21:14 | 59 | 22 | 37 | 4 | 33 |
| Michigan St | Andre Dawkins | 00:38:14 | 71 | 62 | 9 | -4 | 13 |
| Davidson | Andre Dawkins | 00:20:17 | 38 | 32 | 6 | 7 | -1 |
| Tennessee | Andre Dawkins | 00:31:53 | 63 | 53 | 10 | 0 | 10 |
| Michigan | Andre Dawkins | 00:35:22 | 73 | 68 | 5 | 2 | 3 |
| Kansas | Andre Dawkins | 00:34:08 | 60 | 56 | 4 | 3 | 1 |
| Ohio St | Andre Dawkins | 00:18:47 | 21 | 43 | -22 | 0 | -22 |
| Belmont | Austin Rivers | 00:37:39 | 72 | 72 | 0 | 1 | -1 |
| Presbyterian | Austin Rivers | 00:21:09 | 59 | 24 | 35 | 6 | 29 |
| Michigan St | Austin Rivers | 00:23:33 | 43 | 38 | 5 | 0 | 5 |
| Davidson | Austin Rivers | 00:36:10 | 77 | 61 | 16 | -3 | 19 |
| Tennessee | Austin Rivers | 00:30:40 | 62 | 55 | 7 | 3 | 4 |
| Michigan | Austin Rivers | 00:35:58 | 75 | 71 | 4 | 3 | 1 |
| Kansas | Austin Rivers | 00:27:48 | 43 | 48 | -5 | 12 | -17 |
| Ohio St | Austin Rivers | 00:36:25 | 57 | 81 | -24 | 2 | -26 |
| Presbyterian | Josh Hairston | 00:15:59 | 36 | 26 | 10 | 31 | -21 |
| Michigan St | Josh Hairston | 00:05:15 | 10 | 4 | 6 | -1 | 7 |
| Davidson | Josh Hairston | 00:08:11 | 15 | 12 | 3 | 10 | -7 |
| Tennessee | Josh Hairston | 00:02:25 | 2 | 4 | -2 | 12 | -14 |
| Michigan | Josh Hairston | 00:00:59 | 0 | 2 | -2 | 9 | -11 |
| Ohio St | Josh Hairston | 00:12:37 | 30 | 25 | 5 | -27 | 32 |
| Belmont | Mason Plumlee | 00:35:01 | 68 | 70 | -2 | 3 | -5 |
| Presbyterian | Mason Plumlee | 00:19:40 | 44 | 22 | 22 | 19 | 3 |
| Michigan St | Mason Plumlee | 00:31:13 | 58 | 62 | -4 | 9 | -13 |
| Davidson | Mason Plumlee | 00:28:58 | 57 | 52 | 5 | 8 | -3 |
| Tennessee | Mason Plumlee | 00:32:46 | 63 | 58 | 5 | 5 | 0 |
| Michigan | Mason Plumlee | 00:29:30 | 57 | 51 | 6 | 1 | 5 |
| Kansas | Mason Plumlee | 00:36:36 | 66 | 50 | 16 | -9 | 25 |
| Ohio St | Mason Plumlee | 00:35:28 | 52 | 74 | -22 | 0 | -22 |
| Belmont | Michael Gbinije | 00:01:20 | 3 | 5 | -2 | 3 | -5 |
| Presbyterian | Michael Gbinije | 00:14:50 | 26 | 26 | 0 | 41 | -41 |
| Davidson | Michael Gbinije | 00:02:18 | 2 | 8 | -6 | 19 | -25 |
| Ohio St | Michael Gbinije | 00:16:05 | 31 | 30 | 1 | -23 | 24 |
| Belmont | Miles Plumlee | 00:16:57 | 25 | 25 | 0 | 1 | -1 |
| Presbyterian | Miles Plumlee | 00:23:06 | 62 | 30 | 32 | 9 | 23 |
| Michigan St | Miles Plumlee | 00:14:08 | 24 | 16 | 8 | -3 | 11 |
| Davidson | Miles Plumlee | 00:17:29 | 39 | 25 | 14 | -1 | 15 |
| Tennessee | Miles Plumlee | 00:16:38 | 31 | 21 | 10 | 0 | 10 |
| Michigan | Miles Plumlee | 00:12:18 | 22 | 16 | 6 | 1 | 5 |
| Kansas | Miles Plumlee | 00:08:04 | 11 | 17 | -6 | 13 | -19 |
| Ohio St | Miles Plumlee | 00:16:31 | 25 | 35 | -10 | -12 | 2 |
| Belmont | Quinn Cook | 00:08:16 | 16 | 11 | 5 | -4 | 9 |
| Presbyterian | Quinn Cook | 00:18:33 | 44 | 26 | 18 | 23 | -5 |
| Michigan St | Quinn Cook | 00:01:56 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5 | -5 |
| Davidson | Quinn Cook | 00:11:22 | 30 | 15 | 15 | -2 | 17 |
| Tennessee | Quinn Cook | 00:07:56 | 11 | 10 | 1 | 9 | -8 |
| Michigan | Quinn Cook | 00:04:02 | 7 | 4 | 3 | 4 | -1 |
| Kansas | Quinn Cook | 00:01:47 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 5 | -3 |
| Ohio St | Quinn Cook | 00:14:19 | 25 | 29 | -4 | -18 | 14 |
| Belmont | Ryan Kelly | 00:27:55 | 61 | 54 | 7 | -6 | 13 |
| Presbyterian | Ryan Kelly | 00:18:11 | 47 | 28 | 19 | 22 | -3 |
| Michigan St | Ryan Kelly | 00:29:24 | 56 | 56 | 0 | 5 | -5 |
| Davidson | Ryan Kelly | 00:24:24 | 49 | 49 | 0 | 13 | -13 |
| Tennessee | Ryan Kelly | 00:27:23 | 55 | 49 | 6 | 4 | 2 |
| Michigan | Ryan Kelly | 00:35:33 | 74 | 67 | 7 | 0 | 7 |
| Kansas | Ryan Kelly | 00:35:11 | 59 | 55 | 4 | 3 | 1 |
| Ohio St | Ryan Kelly | 00:15:24 | 19 | 36 | -17 | -5 | -12 |
| Belmont | Seth Curry | 00:28:20 | 57 | 59 | -2 | 3 | -5 |
| Presbyterian | Seth Curry | 00:23:38 | 59 | 32 | 27 | 14 | 13 |
| Michigan St | Seth Curry | 00:38:04 | 74 | 69 | 5 | 0 | 5 |
| Davidson | Seth Curry | 00:34:16 | 69 | 65 | 4 | 9 | -5 |
| Tennessee | Seth Curry | 00:36:19 | 73 | 63 | 10 | 0 | 10 |
| Michigan | Seth Curry | 00:34:23 | 75 | 65 | 10 | -3 | 13 |
| Kansas | Seth Curry | 00:35:25 | 62 | 54 | 8 | -1 | 9 |
| Ohio St | Seth Curry | 00:26:09 | 40 | 56 | -16 | -6 | -10 |
| Presbyterian | Todd Zafirovski | 00:03:04 | 3 | 4 | -1 | 42 | -43 |
| Belmont | Tyler Thornton | 00:23:54 | 49 | 46 | 3 | -2 | 5 |
| Presbyterian | Tyler Thornton | 00:20:36 | 41 | 35 | 6 | 35 | -29 |
| Michigan St | Tyler Thornton | 00:18:13 | 34 | 38 | -4 | 9 | -13 |
| Davidson | Tyler Thornton | 00:16:35 | 34 | 26 | 8 | 5 | 3 |
| Tennessee | Tyler Thornton | 00:14:00 | 25 | 22 | 3 | 7 | -4 |
| Michigan | Tyler Thornton | 00:11:55 | 27 | 31 | -4 | 11 | -15 |
| Kansas | Tyler Thornton | 00:21:01 | 37 | 25 | 12 | -5 | 17 |
| Ohio St | Tyler Thornton | 00:08:15 | 15 | 16 | -1 | -21 | 20 |
+--------------+-----------------+----------+------+------+------+------+------+

Troublemaker
11-30-2011, 09:45 PM
Previous Boxes

Not gonna re-post this going forward. But wanted to post full list once with correct Michigan St data.


+----------+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Opponent | Player | Min:Sec | Duke | Opp | +/- | Off | Net |
+----------+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Belmont | Ryan Kelly | 27:55 | 61 | 54 | 7 | -6 | 13 |
| Belmont | Quinn Cook | 08:16 | 16 | 11 | 5 | -4 | 9 |
| Belmont | Tyler Thornton | 23:54 | 49 | 46 | 3 | -2 | 5 |
| Belmont | Miles Plumlee | 16:57 | 25 | 25 | 0 | 1 | -1 |
| Belmont | Austin Rivers | 37:39 | 72 | 72 | 0 | 1 | -1 |
| Belmont | Mason Plumlee | 35:01 | 68 | 70 | -2 | 3 | -5 |
| Belmont | Michael Gbinije | 01:20 | 3 | 5 | -2 | 3 | -5 |
| Belmont | Seth Curry | 28:20 | 57 | 59 | -2 | 3 | -5 |
| Belmont | Andre Dawkins | 20:38 | 34 | 38 | -4 | 5 | -9 |
+----------+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+


+--------------+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Opponent | Player | Min:Sec | Duke | Opp | +/- | Off | Net |
+--------------+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Presbyterian | Andre Dawkins | 21:14 | 59 | 22 | 37 | 4 | 33 |
| Presbyterian | Austin Rivers | 21:09 | 59 | 24 | 35 | 6 | 29 |
| Presbyterian | Miles Plumlee | 23:06 | 62 | 30 | 32 | 9 | 23 |
| Presbyterian | Seth Curry | 23:38 | 59 | 32 | 27 | 14 | 13 |
| Presbyterian | Mason Plumlee | 19:40 | 44 | 22 | 22 | 19 | 3 |
| Presbyterian | Ryan Kelly | 18:11 | 47 | 28 | 19 | 22 | -3 |
| Presbyterian | Quinn Cook | 18:33 | 44 | 26 | 18 | 23 | -5 |
| Presbyterian | Josh Hairston | 15:59 | 36 | 26 | 10 | 31 | -21 |
| Presbyterian | Tyler Thornton | 20:36 | 41 | 35 | 6 | 35 | -29 |
| Presbyterian | Michael Gbinije | 14:50 | 26 | 26 | 0 | 41 | -41 |
| Presbyterian | Todd Zafirovski | 03:04 | 3 | 4 | -1 | 42 | -43 |
+--------------+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+


+-------------+----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Opponent | Player | Min:Sec | Duke | Opp | +/- | Off | Net |
+-------------+----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Michigan St | Andre Dawkins | 38:14 | 71 | 62 | 9 | -4 | 13 |
| Michigan St | Miles Plumlee | 14:08 | 24 | 16 | 8 | -3 | 11 |
| Michigan St | Josh Hairston | 05:15 | 10 | 4 | 6 | -1 | 7 |
| Michigan St | Austin Rivers | 23:33 | 43 | 38 | 5 | 0 | 5 |
| Michigan St | Seth Curry | 38:04 | 74 | 69 | 5 | 0 | 5 |
| Michigan St | Quinn Cook | 01:56 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5 | -5 |
| Michigan St | Ryan Kelly | 29:24 | 56 | 56 | 0 | 5 | -5 |
| Michigan St | Tyler Thornton | 18:13 | 34 | 38 | -4 | 9 | -13 |
| Michigan St | Mason Plumlee | 31:13 | 58 | 62 | -4 | 9 | -13 |
+-------------+----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+


+----------+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Opponent | Player | Min:Sec | Duke | Opp | +/- | Off | Net |
+----------+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Davidson | Austin Rivers | 36:10 | 77 | 61 | 16 | -3 | 19 |
| Davidson | Quinn Cook | 11:22 | 30 | 15 | 15 | -2 | 17 |
| Davidson | Miles Plumlee | 17:29 | 39 | 25 | 14 | -1 | 15 |
| Davidson | Tyler Thornton | 16:35 | 34 | 26 | 8 | 5 | 3 |
| Davidson | Andre Dawkins | 20:17 | 38 | 32 | 6 | 7 | -1 |
| Davidson | Mason Plumlee | 28:58 | 57 | 52 | 5 | 8 | -3 |
| Davidson | Seth Curry | 34:16 | 69 | 65 | 4 | 9 | -5 |
| Davidson | Josh Hairston | 08:11 | 15 | 12 | 3 | 10 | -7 |
| Davidson | Ryan Kelly | 24:24 | 49 | 49 | 0 | 13 | -13 |
| Davidson | Michael Gbinije | 02:18 | 2 | 8 | -6 | 19 | -25 |
+----------+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+


+-----------+----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Opponent | Player | Min:Sec | Duke | Opp | +/- | Off | Net |
+-----------+----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Tennessee | Andre Dawkins | 31:53 | 63 | 53 | 10 | 0 | 10 |
| Tennessee | Miles Plumlee | 16:38 | 31 | 21 | 10 | 0 | 10 |
| Tennessee | Seth Curry | 36:19 | 73 | 63 | 10 | 0 | 10 |
| Tennessee | Austin Rivers | 30:40 | 62 | 55 | 7 | 3 | 4 |
| Tennessee | Ryan Kelly | 27:23 | 55 | 49 | 6 | 4 | 2 |
| Tennessee | Mason Plumlee | 32:46 | 63 | 58 | 5 | 5 | 0 |
| Tennessee | Tyler Thornton | 14:00 | 25 | 22 | 3 | 7 | -4 |
| Tennessee | Quinn Cook | 07:56 | 11 | 10 | 1 | 9 | -8 |
| Tennessee | Josh Hairston | 02:25 | 2 | 4 | -2 | 12 | -14 |
+-----------+----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+


+----------+----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Opponent | Player | Min:Sec | Duke | Opp | +/- | Off | Net |
+----------+----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Michigan | Seth Curry | 34:23 | 75 | 65 | 10 | -3 | 13 |
| Michigan | Ryan Kelly | 35:33 | 74 | 67 | 7 | 0 | 7 |
| Michigan | Miles Plumlee | 12:18 | 22 | 16 | 6 | 1 | 5 |
| Michigan | Mason Plumlee | 29:30 | 57 | 51 | 6 | 1 | 5 |
| Michigan | Andre Dawkins | 35:22 | 73 | 68 | 5 | 2 | 3 |
| Michigan | Austin Rivers | 35:58 | 75 | 71 | 4 | 3 | 1 |
| Michigan | Quinn Cook | 04:02 | 7 | 4 | 3 | 4 | -1 |
| Michigan | Josh Hairston | 00:59 | 0 | 2 | -2 | 9 | -11 |
| Michigan | Tyler Thornton | 11:55 | 27 | 31 | -4 | 11 | -15 |
+----------+----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+

+----------+----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Opponent | Player | Min:Sec | Duke | Opp | +/- | Off | Net |
+----------+----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Kansas | Mason Plumlee | 36:36 | 66 | 50 | 16 | -9 | 25 |
| Kansas | Tyler Thornton | 21:01 | 37 | 25 | 12 | -5 | 17 |
| Kansas | Seth Curry | 35:25 | 62 | 54 | 8 | -1 | 9 |
| Kansas | Andre Dawkins | 34:08 | 60 | 56 | 4 | 3 | 1 |
| Kansas | Ryan Kelly | 35:11 | 59 | 55 | 4 | 3 | 1 |
| Kansas | Quinn Cook | 01:47 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 5 | -3 |
| Kansas | Austin Rivers | 27:48 | 43 | 48 | -5 | 12 | -17 |
| Kansas | Miles Plumlee | 08:04 | 11 | 17 | -6 | 13 | -19 |
+----------+----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+

Kedsy
11-30-2011, 11:11 PM
Cumulative through Ohio St


+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Player | Avg Min | Duke | Opp | +/- | Off | Net |
+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Miles Plumlee | 15:39 | 239 | 185 | 54 | 8 | 46 |
| Seth Curry | 32:04 | 509 | 463 | 46 | 16 | 30 |
| Andre Dawkins | 27:34 | 419 | 374 | 45 | 17 | 28 |
| Quinn Cook | 08:31 | 135 | 95 | 40 | 22 | 18 |
| Austin Rivers | 31:10 | 488 | 450 | 38 | 24 | 14 |
| Ryan Kelly | 26:41 | 420 | 394 | 26 | 36 | -10 |
| Mason Plumlee | 31:09 | 465 | 439 | 26 | 36 | -10 |
| Tyler Thornton | 16:49 | 262 | 239 | 23 | 39 | -16 |
| Josh Hairston | 07:34 | 93 | 73 | 20 | 34 | -14 |
| Todd Zafirovski | 03:04 | 3 | 4 | -1 | 42 | -43 |
| Michael Gbinije | 08:38 | 62 | 69 | -7 | 40 | -47 |
+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+


I know all the caveats regarding +/-, especially with a small sample size. But I find it very interesting that Miles, who many people have been criticizing, has by far our best +/- (personally I would hypothesize it has something to do with his quality defensive play). And Mike, for whom many have been clamoring for increased minutes, has by far our worst +/-. Also, Quinn's +/- is surprisingly good (at least to me) and Ryan's, Mason's, and Tyler's are surprisingly mediocre.

In 2009-10, Brian Zoubek was our early season +/- leader, and many suggested that fact proved the stat was misleading. In the end, it proved prescient, whether or not it was legitimate. Say what you want about this stat, but the numbers are often fascinating.

CDu
12-01-2011, 10:06 AM
I know all the caveats regarding +/-, especially with a small sample size. But I find it very interesting that Miles, who many people have been criticizing, has by far our best +/- (personally I would hypothesize it has something to do with his quality defensive play). And Mike, for whom many have been clamoring for increased minutes, has by far our worst +/-. Also, Quinn's +/- is surprisingly good (at least to me) and Ryan's, Mason's, and Tyler's are surprisingly mediocre.

And these are why I take such data with a grain of salt at this point. I haven't seen anything to suggest that Miles has played superior defense to Kelly and Mason, and I'd definitely suggest that Kelly and Mason have been more important to the offense. As such, I don't personally think the defensive contributions argument is the explanation the stats.

I'd hypothesize this is an example of the limitations of small sample +/-. Given the variability of possession-to-possession scoring that is unaffected by a given player, I'd say the likelihood of this representing the player's true performance on-court (and off-court) is pretty low. And even if it is accurately assessing the contributions of a player (rather than just capturing what happened irrespective of that player's contributions), it isn't addressing the very high number of variables outside the influence of each individual player. Most notably, who is on the floor against them matters. We've had Mason and Kelly be the primary guys playing against the opposing team's starting bigs, especially against Kansas and (in Mason's case) against OSU.

Assuming these numbers even meaningful representation of a player's on-court contributions so far (and I'm definitely not sold on that idea), I'd hypothesize that the negative +/- for Kelly/Mason compared with the positive +/- for Miles are representative of Miles getting a greater proportion of his minutes against lesser competition. The idea being that Miles is closer to a starting quality big than most other team's backup big men.

To clarify - I don't mean this to suggest Miles has been a bad player for us. I think he's been fine, though with a couple of clunkers. Just that I think the minutes he's played aren't the same as the minutes Kelly and Mason have played, and that the +/- isn't accurately reflecting the relative quality of play of the three.

Wander
12-01-2011, 11:23 AM
The idea being that Miles is closer to a starting quality big than most other team's backup big men.


This is a really good point. It's not inconsistent to say that Mason and Ryan are better than Miles, but (not to get too mathy) Miles is better normalized to an average bench player than Ryan and Mason are normalized to an average starter.

I guess in a perfect world, you'd have a huge database of plus/minus for all Division 1 teams, and for each game you'd do a comparison of (for example) Mason's plus/minus to a weighted sum of the season-long plus/minuses for all the Ohio State players that were on the floor whenever Mason was.

Kedsy
12-01-2011, 12:10 PM
I guess in a perfect world, you'd have a huge database of plus/minus for all Division 1 teams, and for each game you'd do a comparison of (for example) Mason's plus/minus to a weighted sum of the season-long plus/minuses for all the Ohio State players that were on the floor whenever Mason was.

That would be very cool.

CDu
12-01-2011, 01:21 PM
I guess in a perfect world, you'd have a huge database of plus/minus for all Division 1 teams, and for each game you'd do a comparison of (for example) Mason's plus/minus to a weighted sum of the season-long plus/minuses for all the Ohio State players that were on the floor whenever Mason was.

Yeah, it'd definitely be neat to have something like that (on a large number of games, obviously, to try to reduce the effect of randomness). There'd still need to be some adjustments for who each was teamed with at the time. But if you had that dataset, you could do that adjustment similar to how you'd adjust for opponent lineup.

The trick is that it would take a really large sample size of games due to the limited minutes for Mason (and backups in general). But on a large enough scale and with the proper adjustments, I think that'd be a really neat dataset.