MBB: Nevada-Las Vegas 90, UNC-CH 80

[feldspar]

The Running' Rebels are up on the boys in powder blue 54-47 with about 13 minutes left in the 2nd half.

I'm not watching the game but UNLV seems to be holding their own on the inside despite Carolina's supposed invincibility...

[hurleyfor3]

This will end the same way 923485609857369085346 other unc games have, with them coming back and winning with the help of stupid mistakes by unlv.

[duke09hms]

This will end the same way 923485609857369085346 other unc games have, with them coming back and winning with the help of stupid mistakes by unlv.

yeah most likely true, hopefully this game will provide a blueprint on how to shut down unc

[Greg_Newton]

WOW, some nice passing by UNLV. They can't stop UNC, but maybe they can keep up the scoring...

[hurleyfor3]

72-60 unlv. The more they go up the more bizarre the comeback will be.

[Gthoma2a]

This could hurt us a little with Shabazz, but I would almost be okay with it to see UNC lose to an unranked team.

UNC is being outplayed. I have thought they were highly overrated for a while, but I thought it would be Kentucky to unseed them.

[duke09hms]

I just keep wondering - how is carolina going to pull it off

[Duvall]

I just keep wondering - how is carolina going to pull it off

UNLV missed layups and UNC free throws.

[Gthoma2a]

Quick shots...

[Greg_Newton]

OMG, stop shooting it with 25 seconds left in the shot clock and immediately fouling on defense. Does UNLV think they're behind?

[juise]

I just keep wondering - how is carolina going to pull it off

Well, if it happens, it will surely involve a lot of scoring with the clock stopped (FT's, but at a higher percentage). Shooting 3's does not appear to be the answer.

I sorta understand the theory behind wanting to see the Heels win outside of conference, but I just can't quite get over the joy of watching them struggle.

[hurleyfor3]

77-68, 4 minute teevee timeout, 4 fouls on Henson. Although unlv missed a couple relatively easy transition attempts the last couple times down.

[OldPhiKap]

I just keep wondering - how is carolina going to pull it off

I'm turning it off and crashing before I see it.

After the football game, I've seen all I can stand of the #@#%'n Tar Heels today.


Go to Hell, Carolina.

[mr. synellinden]

UNC is getting dominated in the second half. Down 9. 3:47 to go.

UNLV is either really good and really underrated or they're having one of those games.

I think it's the former and I would not want to play this team.

[hurleyfor3]

PEOPLE!

Unc losing is always and everywhere a good thing, regardless of where, how or to whom.

[Duvall]

PEOPLE!

Unc losing is always and everywhere a good thing, regardless of where, how or to whom.

This endgame is kind of making me hate UNLV. Why would you take a 15-foot jumpshot in transition with a lead late?

[juise]

Quick shots...

Dance with who brung you, I suppose.

[Gthoma2a]

I'm calling it!

[hurleyfor3]

This endgame is kind of making me hate UNLV. Why would you take a 15-foot jumpshot in transition with a lead late?

Yeah, they're beating the press but not really taking advantage via shot selection. Until they get a O-rebound and make a 3, that is...

Roy uses his last timeout with 2:04 left, unlv up 8.

[Gthoma2a]

I'm calling it!

Too soon...

[duke09hms]

OMG unlv with the dumb turnover. SERIOUSLY

[Gthoma2a]

Man. It is drama...

[duke09hms]

make that turnoverS plural, youve got to be kidding me

[Duvall]

To be fair, a dunk shot early in the shot clock is certainly a solid option.

[Gthoma2a]

Good effort by UNLV. If they don't win, it will be because they tried a little too hard to push it.

[subzero02]

I believe in UNLV....

[Gthoma2a]

Gonna be close, but UNC's demise is in a blue print now.

[Greg_Newton]

Good lord. UNLV, control yourselves.

[ChrisP]

Maybe UNLV can throw a few MORE weak, cross-court passes here in the last few seconds...yikes!

[1999ballboy]

I'm just getting score updates, not actually watching the game, and from the score alone I really can't tell why everyone is panicking and cursing UNLV. Looks like they've held a good lead for a while.

[Greg_Newton]

Woooooohoooooooo!!! Down they go!!!

[WiJoe]

huckleberry surrenders!

:cool:

[ChrisP]

What exactly are the UNC walk-ons doing here with 20 seconds to go? Definitely walk it up slowly - THAT's what ya wanna do!

[hurleyfor3]

yay unlv!!

[Olympic Fan]

90-80 final

[Gthoma2a]

They just lost to an unranked opponent. UConn just lost to an unranked opponent, too. Does this mean we pass them both in the polls?

[CajunDevil]

The Heels still can't defend the three...

[BigZ]

So the Devils have beat three ranked teams and UNC loses by 10 in their first real contest. Can't wait to see them get blown out in Lexington (I hate UK too).

[Oriole Way]

The Fighting Bilases go down!!

Bilas is fighting back tears. Really incredible how much he adores UNC.


The Heels still can't defend the three...

They can't shoot it very well, either. Bullock and Hairston have the ability to make them adequate, but 3-pt defense and shooting will be weaknesses for them this season.

[feldspar]

The Heels still can't defend the three...

No kidding. Looks like the key to defeated UNC is to hit 3s and play defense. Sound familiar?

I love watching overhyped teams get their junk handed to them.

[uh_no]

They just lost to an unranked opponent. UConn just lost to an unranked opponent, too. Does this mean we pass them both in the polls?

We pass uconn guaranteed....i think its hit or miss whether we pass unc as well.....but hey, we'll pass osu the week after :)

[BigZ]

One thing I miss about living in the Triangle is hearing the excuses of Tar Hole fans after a loss. Any guess what their excuses will be?

[hurleyfor3]

Well, the east coast folks are going to be waking up to a pleasant surprise.

Can we depend on unc to do such a lousy job of shooting and defending the three all season as they did tonight? Or at least be erratic enough to doom them in the postseason?

[Wheat/"/"/"]

That was an ugly performance for UNC...
UNLV played harder and brought it. Made some shots and attacked the boards. I was really impressed by their quick hands on D.

The fun has just begun for you guys, I predict Roy is gonna go off on the team for this one. The press conference should be epic.

[BigZ]

We pass uconn guaranteed....i think its hit or miss whether we pass unc as well.....but hey, we'll pass osu the week after :)

If it is passed on what a team has done so far we should be number 1 b/c nobody has played the schedule Duke has. I'm not saying Duke is the best team but they have done the most so far.

[Duvall]

Well, the east coast folks are going to be waking up to a pleasant surprise.

Can we depend on unc to do such a lousy job of shooting and defending the three all season as they did tonight? Or at least be erratic enough to doom them in the postseason?

No and yes. Shooting will be off and on, but UNC's defensive philosophy will always favor preventing high percentage shots over low percentage ones. It makes no sense, but it's the Carolina Way.

[BigZ]

I think I actually enjoy UNC losing more than Duke winning.

[CajunDevil]

I think the new rankings will be:

1. Kentucky
2. OSU
3. Duke
4. Syracuse
5. UNC... maybe

[throatybeard]

This is exactly why I despair of our fans. In the two major sports,* we actually played Carolina head-to-head in one of them today, and got our butt kicked. I have about 1500 facebook contacts, maybe 200 or 300ish Dukeish. And I see a ton more Carolina gravedancing over a meaningless early-RS game we didn't play against them than I do mentions of hope or in-game updates during the FB game. Where they beat us in direct competition.

It's one thing that we act this way, OK, whatever, but don't give me this silliness about how we're classier than everyone else. We're exactly like everyone else. Just snottier maybe.

* - I respect all the nonrev sports, and I have consistently argued that BSB and WBB should be four with FB and MBB. But two is how most of the world sees it.

[uh_no]

If it is passed on what a team has done so far we should be number 1 b/c nobody has played the schedule Duke has. I'm not saying Duke is the best team but they have done the most so far.


please refer to my universal guide to polls: http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?26510-Overrated-Underrated&p=527437#post527437

if i had to vote on so far, i'd have duke, uk, osu, cuse....and KU would be top 10 after how they played against us.....but pollsters don't vote that way and UNC will drop at least 2 spots, but not below ranked 5 nationally.....with syracuse and duke passing them

[ikiru36]

One thing I miss about living in the Triangle is hearing the excuses of Tar Hole fans after a loss. Any guess what their excuses will be?
My guess is that they blame the late start or simply try to have the game expunged, as what happens in Vegas...

Go Duke!!!! Go Blue Devils!!!! GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!!!

[feldspar]

The fun has just begun for you guys, I predict Roy is gonna go off on the team for this one. The press conference should be epic.

True. I wonder how many of his players he'll completely throw under the bus. My guess is he won't completely sell them out like he did two years ago, but it will still be interesting to watch!!

[JMarley50]

UNLV tried to blow it... But at the end of the day GTHC!!

[throatybeard]

I think I actually enjoy UNC losing more than Duke winning.

Extremely sad.

[SCMatt33]

We pass uconn guaranteed....i think its hit or miss whether we pass unc as well.....but hey, we'll pass osu the week after :)

Normally, I wouldn't care so much, but we really should pass them. If we had only beaten cupcakes so far I would get putting us ahead of them, but their best win (and only good win) is against Mich St, who we beat as well. We also beat Kansas and Michigan on neutral courts, not to mention a good Belmont team. Every team we beat except Presbyterian is in KenPom's top 80. 7 Games in is almost a quarter of the regular season. That's enough to vote on resume and not expectations.

Don't get me wrong, I think that this isn't even that bad of a loss. It's nearly a road game against a very good UNLV team, who may be unranked by voters, but 15th by KenPom. At the end of the day though, Duke shares UNC's best win with them and has two better wins. I would guess that they drop to 5th or 6th, depending on whether voters feel that Louisville has done enough to deserve being ahead of them.

[hurleyfor3]

It's one thing that we act this way, OK, whatever, but don't give me this silliness about how we're classier than everyone else. We're exactly like everyone else. Just snottier maybe.

Fair enough, Throaty, but I saw somewhat of a template here in how to beat unc, or at least stay competitive with them. Unlv's endgame wasn't perfect, but they didn't get flustered, make too many stupid fouls or allow unc easy baskets. Unlv rebounded well, so perhaps having some decently quick big men might help.

[uh_no]

Normally, I wouldn't care so much, but we really should pass them. If we had only beaten cupcakes so far I would get putting us ahead of them, but their best win (and only good win) is against Mich St, who we beat as well. We also beat Kansas and Michigan on neutral courts, not to mention a good Belmont team. Every team we beat except Presbyterian is in KenPom's top 80. 7 Games in is almost a quarter of the regular season. That's enough to vote on resume and not expectations.

Don't get me wrong, I think that this isn't even that bad of a loss. It's nearly a road game against a very good UNLV team, who may be unranked by voters, but 15th by KenPom. At the end of the day though, Duke shares UNC's best win with them and has two better wins. I would guess that they drop to 5th or 6th, depending on whether voters feel that Louisville has done enough to deserve being ahead of them.

You're assuming the pollsters have the ability to think logically......Eamon Bremmen (sp?) used to have a column on the absurdities of the polls each week, not sure if he still does.....but most of them just say...oh unc lost? dock them a few spots and don't actually look at what the rest of the teams have done who are potentially passing them......same reason if #2 loses to #1 they still drop in the polls despite being EXPECTED to lose to #1....doesn't make sense

[feldspar]

This is exactly why I despair of our fans. In the two major sports,* we actually played Carolina head-to-head in one of them today, and got our butt kicked. I have about 1500 facebook contacts, maybe 200 or 300ish Dukeish. And I see a ton more Carolina gravedancing over a meaningless early-RS game we didn't play against them than I do mentions of hope or in-game updates during the FB game. Where they beat us in direct competition.

It's one thing that we act this way, OK, whatever, but don't give me this silliness about how we're classier than everyone else. We're exactly like everyone else. Just snottier maybe.

* - I respect all the nonrev sports, and I have consistently argued that BSB and WBB should be four with FB and MBB. But two is how most of the world sees it.

Oh come now, throaty. Do we really need another treatise on why you abhor our fan base? Different sports can be compartmentalized. It's perfectly acceptable in the world of college sports to rag on a team in one sport whom you just lost to in another sport. Apples and oranges.

You mean to tell me that, if schedules (and reality) permitted, and Duke and UNC played basketball on the same night as they met in the BCS championship game, and each team won one of the matchups, neither fanbase would have any right to gloat?

This is sports fanhood. You're arbitrarily assigning rules to something that doesn't have any rules.

[NashvilleDevil]

How many posters celebrating this UNC loss will be saying the season is over the minute Duke loses to an inferior team?

[uh_no]

How many posters celebrating this UNC loss will be saying the season is over the minute Duke loses to an inferior team?

isn't any duke loss necessarily to an inferior team? :P

[moonpie23]

One thing I miss about living in the Triangle is hearing the excuses of Tar Hole fans after a loss. Any guess what their excuses will be?

no need to guess...


REFS

[throatybeard]

Fair enough, Throaty, but I saw somewhat of a template here in how to beat unc, or at least stay competitive with them. Unlv's endgame wasn't perfect, but they didn't get flustered, make too many stupid fouls or allow unc easy baskets. Unlv rebounded well, so perhaps having some decently quick big men might help.

Now see this here ^ is actually constructive.

Odd that the board software likes to lower-case all-caps school names.

[SCMatt33]

You're assuming the pollsters have the ability to think logically......Eamon Bremmen (sp?) used to have a column on the absurdities of the polls each week, not sure if he still does.....but most of them just say...oh unc lost? dock them a few spots and don't actually look at what the rest of the teams have done who are potentially passing them......same reason if #2 loses to #1 they still drop in the polls despite being EXPECTED to lose to #1....doesn't make sense

I agree that pollsters usually don't think logically, but usually that thinking will cause them to overreact to a loss like this, not underreact. They will see losing by double digits to an unranked team and drop them down. I also think people get too upset based on their personal views of what the poll should be. As far as I know, there's nothing that defines whether poll should reflect the best teams that week, the best team up to that point in the season, or who they feel is the best team overall (power ranking style) regardless of record. I think it's logical to vote by any of those methods.

[throatybeard]

How many posters celebrating this UNC loss will be saying the season is over the minute Duke loses to an inferior team?

Most. But it will be even more annoying.

[Duvall]

This is exactly why I despair of our fans. In the two major sports,* we actually played Carolina head-to-head in one of them today, and got our butt kicked. I have about 1500 facebook contacts, maybe 200 or 300ish Dukeish. And I see a ton more Carolina gravedancing over a meaningless early-RS game we didn't play against them than I do mentions of hope or in-game updates during the FB game. Where they beat us in direct competition.

Well, one game involved the #1 team in the country and early national title favorite, and the other involved a team headed to Shreveport for the Independence Bowl. So that was a factor.


It's one thing that we act this way, OK, whatever, but don't give me this silliness about how we're classier than everyone else. We're exactly like everyone else. Just snottier maybe.

Yes, we know that Duke fans will never be authentic or salt of the earth enough for you. You've made that exceptionally clear over the years.

[throatybeard]

Yes, we know that Duke fans will never be authentic or salt of the earth enough for you. You've made that exceptionally clear over the years.

I only want humility and decency from us. I've learned not to expect either, given that this is sports fandom, but I'm still struck from time to time at the degree of their absence, juxtaposed with an otherworldy amount of snot about how we're better than everyone else.

[BigZ]

In college basketball you can't win a national title without scoring guards and UNC doesn't have that.

[Bob Green]

They just lost to an unranked opponent. UConn just lost to an unranked opponent, too. Does this mean we pass them both in the polls?

This is a good example of how useless are the polls. UNLV is undefeated and just beat Carolina by 10 points, but they will not be ranked higher than Carolina in next week's polls. All a team can do is play the games on their schedule one at a time. It isn't important whether or not Duke is ranked higher than Carolina and/or UConn in late November. But I acknowledge it is fun to speculate about and this is a message board and we do have to talk about something.

[uh_no]

In college basketball you can't win a national title without scoring guards and UNC doesn't have that.

wait wait wait....I thought we couldn't win the tournament without a traditional banger go to scoring threat on the low post and a big man to be big man coach....and now you tell me we need scoring guards too?

[CajunDevil]

Took a quick tour of IC to soak in the disappointment... lucky 3's, can't defend the 3, refs-refs-refs, Roy is a bad coach, Barnes took early flight home, stick big guys need to stay in vegas and eat buffets, soft big guys, marshall was abused defensively, etc... Meltdowns are fun to witness ;)

[uh_no]

Took a quick tour of IC to soak in the disappointment... lucky 3's, can't defend the 3, refs-refs-refs, Roy is a bad coach, Barnes took early flight home, stick big guys need to stay in vegas and eat buffets, soft big guys, marshall was abused defensively, etc... Meltdowns are fun to witness ;)

now now, aside from Coach X is a bad coach, this is the same kind of stuff we see here after a bad loss....its always super reactionary really soon after the loss

[throatybeard]

In college basketball you can't win a national title without scoring guards and UNC doesn't have that.

Everyone says this. Does it actually stand up to empirical analysis? I don't know. But I bet you can have your top scorers be an SF and a PF.

[Bob Green]

In college basketball you can't win a national title without scoring guards and UNC doesn't have that.

I hate to have to defend the Tar Heels; however, the truth is Carolina has three quality scoring guards: Dexter Strickland, P.J. Hairston and Reggie Bullock. It's early and their team is going through the learning process just like every other team. Hairston is a freshman while Bullock was limited last season by a bum knee. Those guys are going to be a lot better in March than they are in November. With the way Hairston shoots the ball, if he matures defensively, he will be very good before the year is over.

[feldspar]

I only want humility and decency from us. I've learned not to expect either, given that this is sports fandom, but I'm still struck from time to time at the degree of their absence, juxtaposed with an otherworldy amount of snot about how we're better than everyone else.

I really think you're embellishing things just a tad.

To get bent out of shape over what is essentially a thread saying "Golly, looks like UNC is not all it's cracked up to be" on a DUKE BASKETBALL MESSAGE BOARD tells me you may be a tad out of touch with reality when it comes to sports fanhood.

Sports is about being a bit snotty when your team wins or your rival loses. It's not all tea and crumpets and "jolly good show, my lad."

[hurleyfor3]

Blaming the refs? Hilarious. Unc got to the double bonus with about 10 minutes left in the second half. Unlv wasn't there until the final minute, and only because unc was desperation fouling.

[feldspar]

Oh, and don't I recall K getting a rash of crap from UNC fans when he pulled the team off the court without shaking hands at the end of an FSU game because he was concerned for his team's safety?

Yeah, guess what Roy did tonight?

[uh_no]

Blaming the refs? Hilarious. Unc got to the double bonus with about 10 minutes left in the second half. Unlv wasn't there until the final minute, and only because unc was desperation fouling.

there's something so absolutely satisfying about hearing that phrase

[Duvall]

I hate to have to defend the Tar Heels; however, the truth is Carolina has three quality scoring guards: Dexter Strickland, P.J. Hairston and Reggie Bullock. It's early and their team is going through the learning process just like every other team. Hairston is a freshman while Bullock was limited last season by a bum knee. Those guys are going to be a lot better in March than they are in November. With the way Hairston shoots the ball, if he matures defensively, he will be very good before the year is over.

Not sure that's true. Hairston looks promising, but the next good season by Strickland or Bullock will be the first.

[jjasper0729]

So the Devils have beat three ranked teams and UNC loses by 10 in their first real contest. Can't wait to see them get blown out in Lexington (I hate UK too).

Wouldn't that be a game where you're rooting for the meteor to hit the building?

[Bob Green]

Not sure that's true. Hairston looks promising, but the next good season by Strickland or Bullock will be the first.

Everyone has their own opinion when it comes to evaluating players, but the main criticism of Strickland has been his inconsistent field goal percentage, but his shot looks much better so far this year (he was 5-8 tonight). As I said in my post, Bullock was limited as a freshman by a bum knee. Personally, I'm not willing to dis on a player who played as hard as he could even though injured. In fact, I believe Bullock deserves props for heart.

[moonpie23]

that really took the wind out of bilas's sail.......

[Olympic Fan]

Don't get me wrong, I think that this isn't even that bad of a loss. It's nearly a road game against a very good UNLV team, who may be unranked by voters, but 15th by KenPom

Just to clarify, I don't think this is technically a "road" game. It was played in the Orleans Arena, which is about five miles from the Vegas campus and not at the Thomas & Mack Center, which is UNLV's homecourt.

The NCAA has strict rules about what qualifies as a homecourt -- you can have more than one, but I believe the standard is that you have to play three regular games in an arena to have it count as a home site. I checked UNLV's schedule and I'm pretty sure they play just two games in the Orleans facility. If that's correct, then technically, it is a neutral court.

I'm not sure that isn't what it should be. Despite the proximity to UNLV's campus, they don't play or practice there any more than UNC did ... and from what I saw on TV -- and what SI reported in their game story -- the crowd of 8,000 was pretty evenly split between UNLV and UNC fans.

BTW -- This is very similar to our game against Temple in the Wells Fargo Center. Even though the game will be in Philly, it is technically a neutral court game, since that's the only game the Owls play there this season. Indeed, I think Duke's Jan. 4 trip to play Temple in Philly is a very comparable test to what UNC faced Saturday night -- against a comparable team in a comparable environment.

[uh_no]

that really took the wind out of bilas's sail.......

yeah....two of the widely anointed "immortals" going down in 2 days.....i bet a lot of talking heads will be backtracking on monday

[dchen09]

This is exactly why I despair of our fans. In the two major sports,* we actually played Carolina head-to-head in one of them today, and got our butt kicked. I have about 1500 facebook contacts, maybe 200 or 300ish Dukeish. And I see a ton more Carolina gravedancing over a meaningless early-RS game we didn't play against them than I do mentions of hope or in-game updates during the FB game. Where they beat us in direct competition.

It's one thing that we act this way, OK, whatever, but don't give me this silliness about how we're classier than everyone else. We're exactly like everyone else. Just snottier maybe.

* - I respect all the nonrev sports, and I have consistently argued that BSB and WBB should be four with FB and MBB. But two is how most of the world sees it.

To be fair to some fans out there (such as myself), alot of people just don't care about football or any other sport for that matter. Especially since this is a basketball centered forum, you have to expect more people to care about how UNC does in basketball just because they are passionate about that sport. I think its perfectly ok to focus on 1 activity at a time. Not everyone has the time or energy to support every Duke related activity.

[loran16]

On twitter: @bylinerp #UNC spokesman said they're being precautionary with Barnes, who left the arena on crutches; he'll be re-evaluated back in Chapel Hill.

Barnes did slip on a sticker near the end of the game, though he got back up and made a shot on the same play.


Just to clarify, I don't think this is technically a "road" game. It was played in the Orleans Arena, which is about five miles from the Vegas campus and not at the Thomas & Mack Center, which is UNLV's homecourt.

The NCAA has strict rules about what qualifies as a homecourt -- you can have more than one, but I believe the standard is that you have to play three regular games in an arena to have it count as a home site. I checked UNLV's schedule and I'm pretty sure they play just two games in the Orleans facility. If that's correct, then technically, it is a neutral court.

I'm not sure that isn't what it should be. Despite the proximity to UNLV's campus, they don't play or practice there any more than UNC did ... and from what I saw on TV -- and what SI reported in their game story -- the crowd of 8,000 was pretty evenly split between UNLV and UNC fans.

BTW -- This is very similar to our game against Temple in the Wells Fargo Center. Even though the game will be in Philly, it is technically a neutral court game, since that's the only game the Owls play there this season. Indeed, I think Duke's Jan. 4 trip to play Temple in Philly is a very comparable test to what UNC faced Saturday night -- against a comparable team in a comparable environment.

They usually play 3 games at the Orleans Arena per year - which still makes it a "neutral court," but still one they're heavily favored. And unlike Temple, UNLV is THE team of the Las Vegas area. Temple competes with St. Joes and NOVA for the area's affection.

It's a very home game environment for UNLV, more so than say Syracuse at the Garden.

[SCMatt33]

Just to clarify, I don't think this is technically a "road" game. It was played in the Orleans Arena, which is about five miles from the Vegas campus and not at the Thomas & Mack Center, which is UNLV's homecourt.

The NCAA has strict rules about what qualifies as a homecourt -- you can have more than one, but I believe the standard is that you have to play three regular games in an arena to have it count as a home site. I checked UNLV's schedule and I'm pretty sure they play just two games in the Orleans facility. If that's correct, then technically, it is a neutral court.

I'm not sure that isn't what it should be. Despite the proximity to UNLV's campus, they don't play or practice there any more than UNC did ... and from what I saw on TV -- and what SI reported in their game story -- the crowd of 8,000 was pretty evenly split between UNLV and UNC fans.

BTW -- This is very similar to our game against Temple in the Wells Fargo Center. Even though the game will be in Philly, it is technically a neutral court game, since that's the only game the Owls play there this season. Indeed, I think Duke's Jan. 4 trip to play Temple in Philly is a very comparable test to what UNC faced Saturday night -- against a comparable team in a comparable environment.

I said "nearly" a road game for a reason. By NCAA rules, this will be treated as a neutral site game. The "more than three game" rule only applies for eligibility to play non Final Four games at a particular site. Any time that Philly is an NCAA site, Villanova will play exactly three home games at the Wells Fargo Center to still be eligible to play there. The designation of a single game as home or neutral depends on proximity and ticket sales. UNLV was close enough to have it be a home game, but the tickets were not part of their season tix package and were sold by the event organizers, which made it a neutral game. This is different than our upcoming trip to Temple, which will be an official away game, because Temple is controlling ticket sales, and there will be a Temple logo at center court, etc. I can't find it right now, but this rule is further outlined in the selection committee guidelines.

[brevity]

UNLV is either really good and really underrated or they're having one of those games.

I think it's the former and I would not want to play this team.

They're good. I was surprised to read elsewhere in this thread that UNLV is unranked. That's a mistake (by the pollsters, that is). While not quite on the level of San Diego State and BYU last year, the Rebels (7-0) could very well become the best team in both their conference and their time zone. They play at Wisconsin, versus ranked-for-now California, and 2 games against New Mexico, which was picked to win the Mountain West but is 3-2 in nonconference games thus far.

Looking at their schedule, it's hard not to see them get at least 25 wins. The Mountain West media pegs them as a Sweet 16 team, and that's probably a fair assessment.

Also, Duke fans should recognize UNLV's newest assistant coach (http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/may/03/unlv-augmon-hired-050311/).

[Bob Green]

On twitter: @bylinerp #UNC spokesman said they're being precautionary with Barnes, who left the arena on crutches; he'll be re-evaluated back in Chapel Hill.

Barnes did slip on a sticker near the end of the game, though he got back up and made a shot on the same play.



Barnes rolled his right ankle attempting to chase down a loose ball in the 1st half. He left the game for several minutes and was in obvious pain. Hopefully he is okay as I do not like to see any player hurt.

[moonpie23]

I believe Bullock deserves props for heart.


i believe bullock deserves our undying scorn for that video diss of our coach....

[BluDvlsN1]

From seeing my second favorite team... Any team playin UNC!!


I thought going in that the one chance UNLV had was to stay in Marshalls face, take him out of his
Normal game, that neutralizes Zeller,Henson and Barnes to a degree! Unlv did that and played really good team defense to boot! More than likely thanks to Stacey Augmon!
They were making the extra passes on offense, to get the good looks!
UNC (as discussed on this board) does not have much of a perimeter game!
Strickland can help there!
I have not seen Roy build consistent effort out of a team on a continuous basis!
When UNLV came out in the second half and pushed it,NC didn't really answer!
They were really unimpressive to say the least!

For Feldspar, Williams did walk down to Rice with 5sec left and told him they were
Heading strait to the locker room!!

I always like our chances, even more so after that display today!
Yep they will get better, so will we,
But I'm convinced we'll be prepared for every game!!
And I really like our weapons and effort!!

[NYBri]

1. Ky
2. OSU
3. UNC
4. 'Cuse
5. Duke
6. UConn

Because that's how they do it.

[hurleyfor3]

I'd still like to know what kind of parents name their son Stacey.

[NYBri]

...I'll swap a FB loss to TTFH for a Old Roy loss any day. Just the way I roll.

[tele]

I only want humility and decency from us. I've learned not to expect either, given that this is sports fandom, but I'm still struck from time to time at the degree of their absence, juxtaposed with an otherworldy amount of snot about how we're better than everyone else.

This is a bit much coming from a cardinals fan...

Say, I heard they closed the bowling hall of fame in St louis, that's too bad.

Go Cubs!

[DukieInBrasil]

Before i read the thread i just wanna say:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I had a sneaking suspicion that UNC wasn't as good (yet) as their hype. Squeaking by UNC-A and a couple of other rather unambitious wins over not very good teams. Not that UNLV is bad, but losing by double digits to them exposes how overrated UNC is.
Hairston and (incredibly) Bullock were their best players, at least by stats. Seems like real size and strength can still cause wafer-thin Henson and even Zeller real trouble.
Again:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

[DukieInBrasil]

Not sure that's true. Hairston looks promising, but the next good season by Strickland or Bullock will be the first.
At least in this game, they both shot the ball well. Overall, Bullock's improved over last year for sure, with solid stats, even if the scoring total isn't very high. Strickland's erratic, but got the ability to be a real force in any particular game. It's early but i'd say both are having good seasons so far, perhaps not at the level necessary to define the team by their play, but good enough for the D to not ignore them.

[NashvilleDevil]

I'd still like to know what kind of parents name their son Stacey.

The Keaches and the Augmons

[bob blue devil]

i would've taken a win for duke football against anyone, let alone unc, over seeing their basketball team lose to unlv in november. very easy call.

but we were big dogs in football (more than a touchdown i think), and we are getting better as well running a clean program, so the pain of the loss is at least somewhat muted. i don't see it as totally off-base to take a lot of joy in seeing their basketball team, the anointed ones, losing a shocker early (and with a lot of luck portending things to come) despite our football loss earlier in the day.

[blueduke59]

i believe bullock deserves our undying scorn for that video diss of our coach....

^THIS

Hairston scares me though. Being physical with Marshall really slows down the Heels offense

[Indoor66]

Odd that the board software likes to lower-case all-caps school names.

Gee, it only happens for me when I type unc and Ucon.

[OldPhiKap]

i would've taken a win for duke football against anyone, let alone unc, over seeing their basketball team lose to unlv in november. very easy call.

but we were big dogs in football (more than a touchdown i think), and we are getting better as well running a clean program, so the pain of the loss is at least somewhat muted. i don't see it as totally off-base to take a lot of joy in seeing their basketball team, the anointed ones, losing a shocker early (and with a lot of luck portending things to come) despite our football loss earlier in the day.

+1. And I think we were 13 point dogs.

Hate that we lost the football game today. It was a small consolation to take out some of my anti-Carolina bile through UNLV as opposed to taking it out on the family and dog. So there's that.


Bigger picture, Vegas is good and there is more parity in hoops every year. We could easily have lost to Belmont at home. PC loses to us by 20 and then goes into Cincy and upsets #20. It's the state of the modern game.

[davekay1971]

Everyone says this. Does it actually stand up to empirical analysis? I don't know. But I bet you can have your top scorers be an SF and a PF.

It would be an interesting empirical analysis, but I would submit that it's logical that a team at least needs the ability to score from the perimeter to have a legitimate chance. The three point shot is an extremely effective weapon, and most top teams nowadays have one or more very good shooters. To be able to win the championship, implying usually 2-3 consecutive wins against legitimate contenders, without a realistic threat to score from the outside would be very difficult. You'll be playing against quality teams that can pack in the lane without fear of being killed from the outside, while your opponent can hurt you 3 points at a time from the other end.

All that being said, I don't think it applies to UNC. They have a couple guys who can hit the 3, at least enough to open up the middle a little for Henson and Zeller. This is still a dangerous team, last night's game notwithstanding.

[77devil]

i would've taken a win for duke football against anyone, let alone unc, over seeing their basketball team lose to unlv in november. very easy call.

but we were big dogs in football (more than a touchdown i think), and we are getting better as well running a clean program, so the pain of the loss is at least somewhat muted. i don't see it as totally off-base to take a lot of joy in seeing their basketball team, the anointed ones, losing a shocker early (and with a lot of luck portending things to come) despite our football loss earlier in the day.

My sentiment as well. What an unexpected pleasure to wake up to, notwithstanding Throaty's oh so predictable admonishments to the board. Sure, I'd take a football win over UNC any day if I had the choice. But I have to meet with some UNC grads in Greensboro next week, and this will mute their gloating for certain. Sometimes you just have to take solace where you can find it.

Now time to mosey over to IC for some reading pleasure.

[davekay1971]

Being physical with Marshall really slows down the Heels offense

Which means it'll be impossible to slow down the Heels offense during any game played in the great state of North Carolina. I have faith that there will be a strict 3 foot safe zone placed around Marshall by the guys in stripes. Tyler Thornton: be warned.

[jjasper0729]

I'd still like to know what kind of parents name their son Stacey.

Now now. One of my best friends was named Stacy. He was a wonderful man, even if he was a big tar hole fan. Always looked up to him

[DukeGirl4ever]

Dear DBR Friends,

I love this place....you are all awesome. But, I'm gonna rant a little bit.

What's all the talk about polls? Why do we care who is ranked 1st? IT. DOESN'T. MATTER!

I know we like to see a high ranked number in front of our name, but it means NOTHING in NOVEMBER.

The only time it means anything is after the first weekend in April. :p

Ok, rant over.

Go Duke - I am truly enjoying watching the development of this team and for the first time in a long time, I have not watched a UNC game nor really cared to read up about them and I must say, it's nice not reading about hell! :D

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Here's my quick thoughts on the game...

UNLV played very well. I don't care where they are ranked, That was a tough team out there last night.

UNC simply did not take care of the ball inside, got outquicked after rebounds, and shot poorly...from the inside, which is generally UNC's strength.

Plus they pretty much all sucked at the FT line in this game.

They never got into an offensive rhythm and missed some shots they would normally make...and that was because UNLV played very well defensively on the bigs by blocking out, playing physical, and reaching in and disrupting their post moves. It was a game that UNLV took from UNC by strong inside defense.

Zeller and Henson had poor games handling the ball after the catch inside. And it all had to do with the aggressiveness of UNLV, They were not the unforced kind of mistakes, they were forced by UNLV.

Barnes had a poor game with decisions, too. He tried to force it off the dribble too often when it wasn't there, or he just couldn't beat a quicker defender. He contributed to the lack of offensive rhythm, with those decisions.

I thought guard play was OK, offensively. PJ can shoot it, Reggie can shoot it, and Marshall makes things happen. Strickland is playing well and staying within his game. It was the poor post play that lost this one.

They have to move better without the ball in the 1/2 court and make stronger cuts because, other than Marshall and Strickland, (who are not "scorers") Barnes, PJ, and Reggie are not going to break people down off the dribble.

Defensively, they have to play with more urgency. This team is a very good defensive team, but they didn't show it last night. It was almost like they were thinking "I'll challenge this shot, pretty good, but I'll leave some space so I can be ready for offense...they can't keep making these shots forever...right?"

Wrong.

UNLV made some big shots, and kept coming. That was a confident, well coached team on the floor.

[stillcrazie]

This is a bit much coming from a cardinals fan...

Say, I heard they closed the bowling hall of fame in St louis, that's too bad.

Go Cubs!

This is a bit much coming from a Cubs fan.

I agree with throaty - Duke fans could, at times, take a lesson in fandom from Cards fans.

[mkline09]

I'm excited as anyone that unc lost but as othes have said I would have rather seen a Duke Football victory. That being said seeing the seemingly already crowned (at least in the Las Vegas Tournament or whatever it was called) is some consolation. But in my happiness I think back to last year and wonder if that first loss to FSU ignited the same pure joy we are feeling now elsewhere. After all Duke was kind of sort of the anointed ones last year, though they did lose one of our best players to injury. Still I'm going to try and mute my excitement after a night of celebration since it is still a long season and loses in November will have very little baring on what happens when it counts in march. Still GTHC. Nice win by a very impressive Rebels team. Not sure if they'll hit those shots with video game consistency ever again but good for Dave Rice and his program.

[ThePublisher]

I saw the last ten minutes of this game after ESPN texted me the upset alert. What a great way to end the day. Glad to see the overrated team go down. Duke could be sitting in the 2 or 3 spot if we can take care of Ohio st, which I believe we can.
So UNC has beaten Michigan st, and lost to UNLV. Duke has beaten Belmont, Michigan st, Michigan and Kansas. Who has the better resume?

I do hope Barnes is ok once he gets checked out. He left the arena on crutches after this loss.

[JMarley50]

My sentiment as well. What an unexpected pleasure to wake up to, notwithstanding Throaty's oh so predictable admonishments to the board. Sure, I'd take a football win over UNC any day if I had the choice. But I have to meet with some UNC grads in Greensboro next week, and this will mute their gloating for certain. Sometimes you just have to take solace where you can find it.

Now time to mosey over to IC for some reading pleasure.

I've never really looked at IC because of its reputation here. But I just went over there for a look around myself, and there is some pretty entertaining stuff! Apparently one of the reasons UNC couldn't defend the 3 was because they play help D. Always have, always will. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't...

After reading that I simply smiled, shook my head, hit the x button and thanked God that I was born a Duke fan! I don't think I will be venturing over there anymore...

[CDu]

I do hope Barnes is ok once he gets checked out. He left the arena on crutches after this loss.

I'm guessing he probably will be fine, considering his injury occurred in the first half and he played a lot (scoring 11) in the second half. He rolled it a little bit diving for a ball near the sideline in the first half and was able to walk across the court to the bench on his own.

As for the game, crazy that UNC got outrebounded by UNLV. That and missing 13 free throws (and UNLV hitting 13 3pt shots) was the difference. UNLV's big guys really went after it on the glass.

[jimsumner]

My, my. Duke fans arguing with each other on a Duke message board on the appropriate way to respond to a UNC loss.

They have such power over us.

And, vice-versa, of course.

[Jderf]

My, my. Duke fans arguing with each other on a Duke message board on the appropriate way to respond to a UNC loss.

They have such power over us.

And, vice-versa, of course.

I don't really get why there is a debate. There is only one appropriate way to respond, and it involves just two keys on the keyboard, a number and a letter, pressed in succession, repeatedly.

(Interestingly, the same response is also appropriate to a UNC win.)

[roywhite]

Didn't see the game, but I've looked at highlights and comments.

Seems like the road to beating the Heels involves good outside shooting against their so-far suspect perimeter defense, and preventing Marshall from giving their shooters point-blank looks, along with an off-night shooting. Not necessarily an easy combination, but these are factors that have been talked about here, and also elements that Duke can bring in a match-up, too.

rapid reaction to UNC loss on ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/40196/rapid-reaction-unlv-90-unc-80)


How it happened: Despite only 13 first-half points from its star trio of Harrison Barnes, John Henson and Tyler Zeller, UNC led 42-38 at halftime. But UNLV opened the second half with a 14-0 run, during which the Tar Heels missed 10 straight shots, to take a 52-42 lead. UNC tried to chip away, but the Rebels swished and pounded -- taking advantage of UNC’s suspect perimeter defense, and scoring consistently on second-chance points....


Numbers to note: Barnes, Henson and Zeller were a combined 11-for-34 shooting. ... UNLV made 13 3-pointers and UNC countered with just four. That's a 27-point difference from beyond the arc. ... Carolina also gave away points at the charity stripe, making just 20-of-33 (60.6 percent), while UNLV went 15-of-18 (83.3 percent).

[Kimist]

Oh, and don't I recall K getting a rash of crap from UNC fans when he pulled the team off the court without shaking hands at the end of an FSU game because he was concerned for his team's safety?

Yeah, guess what Roy did tonight?

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery." :rolleyes:

k

[OldPhiKap]

I'm guessing he probably will be fine, considering his injury occurred in the first half and he played a lot (scoring 11) in the second half. He rolled it a little bit diving for a ball near the sideline in the first half and was able to walk across the court to the bench on his own.

Kyrie played the rest of the game in which he hurt his toe.

I hope the kid is okay, so we can beat him heads-up.

[Wander]

Seems like the road to beating the Heels involves good outside shooting

Music to my ears :)

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Didn't see the game, but I've looked at highlights and comments.

Seems like the road to beating the Heels involves good outside shooting against their so-far suspect perimeter defense, and preventing Marshall from giving their shooters point-blank looks, along with an off-night shooting. Not necessarily an easy combination, but these are factors that have been talked about here, and also elements that Duke can bring in a match-up, too.

rapid reaction to UNC loss on ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/40196/rapid-reaction-unlv-90-unc-80)

My 2cents...Teams will have to shoot it well to beat UNC, like UNLV did, but I think the key is to also do what UNLV did, and that's strongly defend the post.

[moonpie23]

again with the stickers on the floor.??????!!!!! WHEN are they going to do something about this?

what do they need? for a rising star to have his career ended?

this is just BS....

[Kedsy]

They never got into an offensive rhythm and missed some shots they would normally make...and that was because UNLV played very well defensively on the bigs by blocking out, playing physical, and reaching in and disrupting their post moves. It was a game that UNLV took from UNC by strong inside defense.

Wheat, do you think this was something other teams can use as a roadmap to beat the Heels, or was it more of a one game aberration?


I agree that pollsters usually don't think logically, but usually that thinking will cause them to overreact to a loss like this, not underreact. They will see losing by double digits to an unranked team and drop them down. I also think people get too upset based on their personal views of what the poll should be. As far as I know, there's nothing that defines whether poll should reflect the best teams that week, the best team up to that point in the season, or who they feel is the best team overall (power ranking style) regardless of record. I think it's logical to vote by any of those methods.

Disagree. UNC was anointed as the team to beat. Poll voters will drop a #6 team to #10 or even #12 after a loss like this, but not an "overwhelming" #1. UNC will drop to #2, possibly #3.

Until their next loss.


In college basketball you can't win a national title without scoring guards and UNC doesn't have that.

What? If you'd said outside shooting, you may have an argument (though I'm still not sure), but scoring guards? As opposed to scoring small forwards like Harrison Barnes? And what about the back-to-back Florida champs? Their guards were the 4th and 5th scoring options on the floor. Ultimately, everyone who says "you can't win a national title without x" is wrong, unless x is "good players." And even if that weren't true, I'd rate "scoring guards" as fairly low on the you-can't-win-without-it meter.

[TruBlu]

again with the stickers on the floor.??????!!!!! WHEN are they going to do something about this?

what do they need? for a rising star to have his career ended?

this is just BS....

Completely agree, moonpie!

[BluDvlsN1]

On the THfanblog...

52bgJ
November 27, 2011 at 8:35 am
Roy said it himself in the presser last night, “I’ve got to do a better job coaching”. I don’t know whether he really believes that or not, but it’s not just hyperbole. Zeller isn’t May, or Hansbrough, and on defense KM isn’t Felton or Lawson, so when the other team figures out how to exploit your weaknesses, you’d better figure out how to give your boys some help. Might want to take a page out of K’s book concerning motivation (read:I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.-chewing) as well.

[Cell-R]

Today is a good day. GTHC :cool:

[Jderf]

again with the stickers on the floor.??????!!!!! WHEN are they going to do something about this?

what do they need? for a rising star to have his career ended?

this is just BS....

It is worse than BS. Its the ultimate hypocrisy. The NCAA is putting the health of their "amateur" athletes at risk for the sake of their commercial advertisements. It borders on despicable, in my opinion.

[Dukeface88]

I found about this from a sudden rash of Facebook statuses about the University of Northern Colorado. I guess Roy isn't the only one who doesn't give a **** about Carolina.

[oldnavy]

Is it just me or does Roy have a hard time making in-game adjustments? You would think that after about the 8th three pointer he would have told the perimeter guys to stay at home...

[uh_no]

Is it just me or does Roy have a hard time making in-game adjustments? You would think that after about the 8th three pointer he would have told the perimeter guys to stay at home...

He was just a little annoyed because he tried to have the UNLV fans ejected from the stadium for shouting during free throws....but the security detail wouldn't comply

[BluDvlsN1]

Is it just me or does Roy have a hard time making in-game adjustments? You would think that after about the 8th three pointer he would have told the perimeter guys to stay at home...

I personally dont believe he has that capacity,proved out in Kansas and UNC!
I think he is a quality guy,has a boatload of talent, doesnt have the ability to organize or motivate it on a consistent basis!!
Fot the rare exception..the Hansbourgh team, (which was self motivated)..
Comes under the umbrella of...."even a blind squirrel"

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Wheat, do you think this was something other teams can use as a roadmap to beat the Heels, or was it more of a one game aberration?


I think it does show teams how to beat UNC.

UNC is an inside out team, for the most part. They will look into the post almost every time down that's not transition. UNC is coming inside, that you can count on. The question for a team is... can you stop them?

UNLV did last night, but that's easier said than done.

Teams will have to...

Have depth of strong players, get physical inside, be quicker to spots on the floor and box out. Limit the cheap fouls. Chase every rebound like the game depended on it, every time, on both ends of the floor.
Take care of the ball, attack off the dribble and make a high % of threes.

That's all a team has to do to beat UNC, ..and hope UNC is not shooting it well, is impatient, and makes a few silly fouls that get Henson or Zeller to the bench :)

Most teams will not be able do all that against the talent UNC brings to the floor. They will usually get worn down or get into foul trouble. It's not the starting line up that always gets teams with how Roy plays, it's often the first wave of Subs that come in and keeps the pressure on at a high level of play. It adds up most of the time.

UNLV's defense last night was the best I've seen all season, they were strong shooting, and UNC didn't respond well enough with their decisions, or their own defense.

In perspective, it's early in the season and it was a "road" loss against a good team. Every team has their weaknesses to be addressed this time of year. Nobody rational expected an undefeated season.

[moonpie23]

Here's my quick thoughts on the game...

UNLV played very well. I don't care where they are ranked, That was a tough team out there last night.

UNC simply did not take care of the ball inside, got outquicked after rebounds, and shot poorly...from the inside, which is generally UNC's strength.

Plus they pretty much all sucked at the FT line in this game.

They never got into an offensive rhythm and missed some shots they would normally make...and that was because UNLV played very well defensively on the bigs by blocking out, playing physical, and reaching in and disrupting their post moves. It was a game that UNLV took from UNC by strong inside defense.

Zeller and Henson had poor games handling the ball after the catch inside. And it all had to do with the aggressiveness of UNLV, They were not the unforced kind of mistakes, they were forced by UNLV.

Barnes had a poor game with decisions, too. He tried to force it off the dribble too often when it wasn't there, or he just couldn't beat a quicker defender. He contributed to the lack of offensive rhythm, with those decisions.

I thought guard play was OK, offensively. PJ can shoot it, Reggie can shoot it, and Marshall makes things happen. Strickland is playing well and staying within his game. It was the poor post play that lost this one.

They have to move better without the ball in the 1/2 court and make stronger cuts because, other than Marshall and Strickland, (who are not "scorers") Barnes, PJ, and Reggie are not going to break people down off the dribble.

Defensively, they have to play with more urgency. This team is a very good defensive team, but they didn't show it last night. It was almost like they were thinking "I'll challenge this shot, pretty good, but I'll leave some space so I can be ready for offense...they can't keep making these shots forever...right?"

Wrong.

UNLV made some big shots, and kept coming. That was a confident, well coached team on the floor.

help please......i read and re-read this and i don't see anything about the REFS..???!! was it edited afterwards? wheat, could you please add an avatar with some baby blue in it so we KNOW you haven't crossed over from the dark side..? :)

[dukeballboy88]

You saw a Roy Williams team play d last night. I caught the 2nd half and several of the 3's UNLV hit there was nobody within 5 feet of them. UNC is so worried about running if you go beyond 10 seconds in the shot clock you are probly going to get a wide open look. And they get praised for scoring off a made basket, I dont get it????

[ACCBBallFan]

McAdoo, Hairston and Bullock played much better than the starters.

Here is my analysis of +/- and player combination effectiveness:

PT UNC UNLV +/- +/min -/min UNC
17.2 44 (35) +9 2.6 (2.0) James Michael McAdoo, F
21.9 55 (47) +8 2.5 (2.1) Reggie Bullock, G
16.7 47 (39) +8 2.8 (2.3) P.J. Hairston, G

00.4 01 00 +1 2.9 00.0 Desmond Hubert, F
00.4 01 00 +1 2.9 00.0 Jackson Simmons, F
00.4 01 00 +1 2.9 00.0 3 Other Blue Steel

00.7 04 (6) (2) 5.9 (8.8) Justin Watts, G

29.0 52 (66) (14) 1.8 (2.3) John Henson, F
26.7 44 (58) (14) 1.6 (2.2) Dexter Strickland, G
24.2 40 (55) (15) 1.7 (2.3) Tyler Zeller, F
31.8 61 (77) (16) 1.9 (2.4) Kendall Marshall, G

30.0 48 (67) (19) 1.6 (2.2) Harrison Barnes, F

200 400 (450) (50) 2.0 (2.2)
040 080 (90) (10) 2.0 (2.2)

PT UNC UNLV +/-
14.7 20 34 (14) KM-DS-HB-JH-TZ *4

04.7 10 10 00 KM-HB-JH-RB-JM *2

02.9 05 05 00 KM-HB-TZ-RB-PJ

02.3 06 03 +3 DS-HB-RB-JM--PJ *2

02.2 05 06 (1) DS-TZ-RB-JM-PJ

01.8 00 05 (5) KM-DS-HB-JH-JM *2

01.7 05 02 +3 KM-TZ-RB-JM-PJ

01.4 01 02 (1) DS-HB-JH-RB--PJ

01.3 04 04 00 KM-DS-JH-JM-PJ

01.2 03 06 (3) KM-JH-TZ-RB-PJ

01.2 02 02 00 KM-DS-JH-RB-JM

01.1 04 00 +4 DS-JH-RB-JM-PJ

01.0 08 03 +5 KM-JH-RB-JM-PJ

00.9 02 02 00 DS-HB-TZ-RB-PJ

00.7 00 00 00 KM-HB-JH-TZ-RB

00.7 04 06 (2) KM-HB-RB-PJ-JW

00.4 01 00 01 Blue Steel


40 80 90 (10)

The two combos that fared the worst were the starters in 4 stints and McAdoo in for Zeller with starters twice. They did not have a single rotation that was positive:

PT UNC UNLV +/-

2.8 4 04 00 KM-DS-HB-JH-TZ
5.8 9 11 (2) KM-DS-HB-JH-TZ
3.5 7 10 (3) KM-DS-HB-JH-TZ
2.5 0 09 (9) KM-DS-HB-JH-TZ

0.8 0 2 (2) KM-DS-HB-JH-JM
1.0 0 3 (3) KM-DS-HB-JH-JM

All three of the primary subs had their +9/+8 in first half and played exactly even in second half. In fact the only UNC players that were individually positive in the second half were the Blue Steel unit at +1.

Strickland and Henson were each +2 in first half, Marshall and Barnes each -2 and Zeller -5, while McAdoo was +9 and Bullock and Hairston were each +8.

[dukeballboy88]

I know im probly going to get crushed for this but Barnes will hold unc from reaching its full potential.

[uh_no]

I know im probly going to get crushed for this but Barnes will hold unc from reaching its full potential.

why do you think that?

[Wheat/"/"/"]

help please......i read and re-read this and i don't see anything about the REFS..???!! was it edited afterwards? wheat, could you please add an avatar with some baby blue in it so we KNOW you haven't crossed over from the dark side..? :)

I doubt that there are many people around that have been here for very long who would question which team I'd like to see win every game.

Rarely do I comment on Refs, unless a call is obviously bad, like this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL1y8HoVtY0).

Couldn't resist :)

I didn't see any really bad calls in that UNLV game. There was a lot of reaching in that some refs might have called fouls, but on the replays I saw it did look like UNLV guys were getting to the ball and just had quick hands.

[BD80]

This could hurt us a little with Shabazz, ...

I see this as a brillilliant recruiting move by ol' roy. Show the #1 recruit that if you play for unc, you only have to play hard when you feel like it, and only the games at the end of the year are worth killing yourself to win. Until then, superior talent is usually enough.


... It's one thing that we act this way, OK, whatever, but don't give me this silliness about how we're classier than everyone else. We're exactly like everyone else. Just snottier maybe. ...

Is this irony?


On twitter: @bylinerp #UNC spokesman said they're being precautionary with Barnes, who left the arena on crutches; ...

Barnes is the second coming of Scottie Pippen; albeit an ankle instead of a migraine.


A game like this is why college bball is so worth watching. carolina will improve, but can they ever generate the intensity it will take to win six straight at the end of the year? Frankly, I think Duke has more room to improve.

[chrishoke]

It is worse than BS. Its the ultimate hypocrisy. The NCAA is putting the health of their "amateur" athletes at risk for the sake of their commercial advertisements. It borders on despicable, in my opinion.

NCAA acting like the tobacco industry - thoseads nered warning labels.

[uh_no]

NCAA acting like the tobacco industry - thoseads nered warning labels.

to be fair, the contracts to put the ads on the floor have absolutely zilch to do with the NCAA....that money goes to the tournament, not to the NCAA. Most of the problem is that the NCAA has no "head" of basketball to make rules about that kind of stuff (or this is what k says and I tend to agree).

the NCAA is guilty of a lot of things, but they don't see a dime of the money that puts those stickers on the floor

[killerleft]

I only want humility and decency from us. I've learned not to expect either, given that this is sports fandom, but I'm still struck from time to time at the degree of their absence, juxtaposed with an otherworldy amount of snot about how we're better than everyone else.

I see your problem. You don't want to be associated with an elitist fan base that is "snotty". But you are disappointed that we are not superior to other fanbases because some of us claim we are better. So what you really want is an elite fanbase with an invisibility cloak so no one will notice we really ARE better than they are.

The truth is that we are Duke fans, with the same failings that are present in any other fanbase. Most of us pay more attention to major sports but still try to keep up with the non-revenue ones. Like all other fans, we LOVE to watch our arch-rival lose. Sometimes, we revel in that.

Perhaps if you resided in North Carolina you would understand better. To put it in an ugly way that is nonetheless true, there are far more Carolina fans with at least three front teeth missing than there are Duke fans in total. We go to any department store (even in Durham) and there may be a whole section dedicated to Carolina gear. On one side... why, there's the Duke stuff, on one rack. It can wear on us.

So... we're fighting the war here. You're sending letters to the front. Include cookies in your next care package, and try to re-find the 'Beard who knew all this, once. I remember his posts with fondness.

[dukeballboy88]

Originally Posted by dukeballboy88
I know im probly going to get crushed for this but Barnes will hold unc from reaching its full potential.


uh_no
why do you think that?

He seems like he needs his shots to be happy. From what I watched, the ball move around better when he was on the bench. Its not a knock on Barnes he is a fine player but it seems he needs to be the man. On a team that deep with talent, that could end up causing a problem. To put it in 1 sentence, Bullock and Hairston need more shots.

I know its one game but one game against a good team. Is UNLV considered a good team?

[uh_no]

He seems like he needs his shots to be happy. From what I watched, the ball move around better when he was on the bench. Its not a knock on Barnes he is a fine player but it seems he needs to be the man. On a team that deep with talent, that could end causing a problem. To put it in 1 sentence, Bullock and Hairston need more shots.

I know its one game but one game against a good team. Is UNLV considered a good team?

Out of curiousity: do you see the same thing occurring with us/austin? He is certainly takes his shots, but I think its important to note that in the critical stretch of the kansas game, K chose tyler over austin. I mean, its likely a specific occurrence in that particular game situation, but either way, do you think we will have that problem with austin?

[feldspar]

I see your problem. You don't want to be associated with an elitist fan base that is "snotty". But you are disappointed that we are not superior to other fanbases because some of us claim we are better. So what you really want is an elite fanbase with an invisibility cloak so no one will notice we really ARE better than they are.

The truth is that we are Duke fans, with the same failings that are present in any other fanbase. Most of us pay more attention to major sports but still try to keep up with the non-revenue ones. Like all other fans, we LOVE to watch our arch-rival lose. Sometimes, we revel in that.

Perhaps if you resided in North Carolina you would understand better. To put it in an ugly way that is nonetheless true, there are far more Carolina fans with at least three front teeth missing than there are Duke fans in total. We go to any department store (even in Durham) and there may be a whole section dedicated to Carolina gear. On one side... why, there's the Duke stuff, on one rack. It can wear on us.

So... we're fighting the war here. You're sending letters to the front. Include cookies in your next care package, and try to re-find the 'Beard who knew all this, once. I remember his posts with fondness.

+ 1,000

[throatybeard]

Rarely do I comment on Refs, unless a call is obviously bad, like this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL1y8HoVtY0).

Couldn't resist :)

Remind me which school won that game by double digits. Oh, yeah.

[throatybeard]

Perhaps if you resided in North Carolina you would understand better. To put it in an ugly way that is nonetheless true, there are far more Carolina fans with at least three front teeth missing than there are Duke fans in total. We go to any department store (even in Durham) and there may be a whole section dedicated to Carolina gear. On one side... why, there's the Duke stuff, on one rack. It can wear on us.

I lived in North Carolina for 17 years. But thanks for the lecture on what it's like.

[oldnavy]

Out of curiousity: do you see the same thing occurring with us/austin? He is certainly takes his shots, but I think its important to note that in the critical stretch of the kansas game, K chose tyler over austin. I mean, its likely a specific occurrence in that particular game situation, but either way, do you think we will have that problem with austin?

Austin needs to grow into the college game a bit. He has the talent, but he has to learn that he has talent around him now as well. Having watched the games in Maui and being able to see the off camera body language and mannerisms, I would say that Austin will need a lot of personal attention and some maturation. However, I think we have one of the best coaches for being able to get an individual to buy into the team as there is.

Having said that, Austin does get a lot of coaching from the assistants when he comes out of games, and he seems to be responding well. He needs to learn that a drive to the basket that ends with an assist is just as valuable as him scoring. One of his best plays of the tournament was a drive and kick out to Seth for a three pointer. Once it "clicks" with him that if he passes it will actually help him in the future to get his shot, (by keeping the help defense honest), he could become almost unstoppable. He is that good at getting into the lane. I think that by conference play and certainly into March he will be much improved in this area.

I think that Tyler was in for his defense at the end of the game and perhaps because Austin may have the potential to try too much too early in the end game pressure of a tight game.

Tyler is a catalyst and just flat out brings energy to the court.

I do wonder if Barnes is a good teammate. I am most definately biased, but he seems a tad bit self absorbed to me.

[jamesfrommaiden]

He seems like he needs his shots to be happy. From what I watched, the ball move around better when he was on the bench. Its not a knock on Barnes he is a fine player but it seems he needs to be the man. On a team that deep with talent, that could end up causing a problem. To put it in 1 sentence, Bullock and Hairston need more shots.

I know its one game but one game against a good team. Is UNLV considered a good team?

Does any Duke fan really care about UNC reaching its full potential? How many of us Duke fans are concerned about UNC having success moving forward. They are good. I will even say they might have a great team, but I will not for an instant worry or care why UNC loses a game or games. I hate them. I hate their fans. It is a deep seated hatred that burns in my soul for them and what they stand for. So I am glad they lost. I don't care why, how, or against who. I have a feeling they will be OK. I love Duke. I don't have room in my heart to concern myself with the problems, or lack there of, in Chapel Hill. I have nothing but pure, unadulterated hatred for them. LETS GO DUKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[moonpie23]

Rarely do I comment on Refs, unless a call is obviously bad, like this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL1y8HoVtY0).



clearly a charge....

[oldnavy]

clearly a charge....

Granted, Singler never perfected the Hansbrough flop.... but that was a imitation!

[uh_no]

Granted, Singler never perfected the Hansbrough flop.... but that was a imitation!

if you get the call, who cares if its a flop or not!

instead of people complaining all the time that duke flops, perhaps they should be encouraging their teams to do the same....

[BluDvlsN1]

Does any Duke fan really care about UNC reaching its full potential? How many of us Duke fans are concerned about UNC having success moving forward. They are good. I will even say they might have a great team, but I will not for an instant worry or care why UNC loses a game or games. I hate them. I hate their fans. It is a deep seated hatred that burns in my soul for them and what they stand for. So I am glad they lost. I don't care why, how, or against who. I have a feeling they will be OK. I love Duke. I don't have room in my heart to concern myself with the problems, or lack there of, in Chapel Hill. I have nothing but pure, unadulterated hatred for them. LETS GO DUKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you know what your enemies weaknesses are, they are available to be exploited to your advantage!

Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.
Sun-tzu
Chinese general & military strategist (~400 BC)

[moonpie23]

Does any Duke fan really care about UNC reaching its full potential?!

whether or not we want to admit it....the bar is always set 8 miles down the road (just like it's set 8 miles UP the road for them).....with two programs reaping titles the way that unc and duke do, it's hard not to see the toe-to-toe comparison each and every year...

look back thru IC and DBR and watch the obsession with the other team....we don't obsess about ANY other team like the tarholes....they do the same about us....

so, while we don't like it.....we definitely care about them...

[ncexnyc]

I didn't watch the whole game as everytime I turned it on the heels would make a run and I felt they'd eventually luck out and get the win. What a pleasant surprise to tune back in with about 7 minutes left to go and see UNLV up by double digits.

Here are some observations:
1. I've cut Jay Bilas a lot of slack over the years, but last night's UNC lovefest was a bit to much. Marshall hacks a UNLV player going up for a layup and Jay raves about his defense, while the replay clearly shows KM was all over the guy's arm. There were several such instances in the short time I watched. His objectivity was clearly skewed.

2. Zeller is an extremely gifted big, but he's still soft. He doesn't handle physical play very well, which means Miles should have another solid outing when we face them.

3. Henson still has that freakish length, but he continues to believe he can put the ball on the floor. All we have to do is shade him to the left and keep a body on him (easier said than done) and he'll be neutralized. Ryan should be able to eat him up on the offensive end.

4. Strickland has improved his shot as well as his handle. He could be quite effective against AR.

5. Marshall looks as though he's worked on his shooting. Still has great court vision and is deadly on full court passes. He still isn't the quickest PG and his halfcourt running of their team is a problem for them.

6. HB has worked on his handle. He's really the only player I still don't think we have an answer for. Hopefully Dre can go off early and often to get into his head and force HB to become a one man team.

7. Same old heels they run and they run well. Slow them down and play your game and you can beat them.

The upcoming ACC/Big Ten Challenge should give us a better idea of where both teams stand.

[davekay1971]

Rarely do I comment on Refs, unless a call is obviously bad, like this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL1y8HoVtY0).

Couldn't resist :)
.

My three favorite parts about that video:

1) The look on Singler's face, totally amused that he got that call
2) The roars of impotent outrage from the sea of Baby Blue. You can hear the undercurrent of, "WHAT?! A call went against US? In OUR state? This never would have happened if Dean was still coach!"
3) The context of that play, being a very small part of an absolute beatdown of Carolina to provide Duke and Coach K yet another ACC Championship!

Thanks for posting that, Wheat. Happy memories. Brought a warm glow to my heart.

[devildeac]

clearly a charge....

+1

Feet set. Outside the arc. Heck, even the announcers agree with the call. And it appeared to be made by karl "unc" hess.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Remind me which school won that game by double digits. Oh, yeah.

Kind of the point there, Throaty. Calls like that can lead you to the promised land...in a Limo:)

I'm here to entertain, next show at 11.....

[devildeac]

I see your problem. You don't want to be associated with an elitist fan base that is "snotty". But you are disappointed that we are not superior to other fanbases because some of us claim we are better. So what you really want is an elite fanbase with an invisibility cloak so no one will notice we really ARE better than they are.

The truth is that we are Duke fans, with the same failings that are present in any other fanbase. Most of us pay more attention to major sports but still try to keep up with the non-revenue ones. Like all other fans, we LOVE to watch our arch-rival lose. Sometimes, we revel in that.

Perhaps if you resided in North Carolina you would understand better. To put it in an ugly way that is nonetheless true, there are far more Carolina fans with at least three front teeth missing than there are Duke fans in total. We go to any department store (even in Durham) and there may be a whole section dedicated to Carolina gear. On one side... why, there's the Duke stuff, on one rack. It can wear on us.

So... we're fighting the war here. You're sending letters to the front. Include cookies in your next care package, and try to re-find the 'Beard who knew all this, once. I remember his posts with fondness.

Yep, even that guy who puts up all the headlines/links on the Home Page (what's his name again ?;)) appears to have derived some pleasure out of the unc loss last PM:

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=42896

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=42904

A little bit of schadenfreude is quite good every once in a while. I prefer mine with an IPA or imperial stout:D.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

+1

Feet set. Outside the arc. Heck, even the announcers agree with the call. And it appeared to be made by karl "unc" hess.

Feet set.√
Outside the arc.√
Singler leaning right shoulder in pre contact.√
Actual contact-bambi head stroke material.√
Singler look-posterized.√
Momentum changer.√
No call play all day.√

There you go Doc, fixed it for you. My friends do it for me around here all the time.
You're welcome :)

[Wander]

Being down 13-6 instead of 13-8 five minutes into a game that the leading team is consistently ahead by double digits almost the entire game is a momentum changer?

[moonpie23]

haha....i love the "momentum changer" argument........

[davekay1971]

Being down 13-6 instead of 13-8 five minutes into a game that the leading team is consistently ahead by double digits almost the entire game is a momentum changer?

In the twisted logic of a Carolina fan who's team used to be the standard bearer of the ACC before K ushered Dean into retirement...yes!

What's funny is that Wheat's exact logic, basically his whole quote, has frequently been used to explain away Carolina's impressive winning history by Carolina haters. With equal validity, I might add. It always ranks high on the irony scale when a Carolina fan complains about Duke being the beneficiary of biased reffing...

[Wheat/"/"/"]

When a call is that bad and a team has to spend the the next 5 minutes wondering if a foul gets called for their next breath of air...it affects their momentum.

But, to move on, I don't think that call cost UNC the game either. I was just having a little fun with ya. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDfU7N4R69A&feature=related)
And the turn in this thread is one reason why you'll rarely see me comment on the refs.

Calls, good and bad, are a part of the game and good teams can adjust to however they are calling it. It's rare that a bad call actually does determine the outcome of a game.

[Gthoma2a]

I see this as a brillilliant recruiting move by ol' roy. Show the #1 recruit that if you play for unc, you only have to play hard when you feel like it, and only the games at the end of the year are worth killing yourself to win. Until then, superior talent is usually enough.

Aren't they already out of it with Shabazz? I was talking about UNLV showing that their tradition and pride isn't as dead as it may have seemed.

[Gthoma2a]

Dear DBR Friends,

I love this place....you are all awesome. But, I'm gonna rant a little bit.

What's all the talk about polls? Why do we care who is ranked 1st? IT. DOESN'T. MATTER!

I know we like to see a high ranked number in front of our name, but it means NOTHING in NOVEMBER.

The only time it means anything is after the first weekend in April. :p

Ok, rant over.

Go Duke - I am truly enjoying watching the development of this team and for the first time in a long time, I have not watched a UNC game nor really cared to read up about them and I must say, it's nice not reading about hell! :D

It matters because of the arguments and strong statements that have come from UNC fans based on the rankings. If their argument is killed for a while, it means I can get some peace and explain that this isn't their 2009 team (like everyone has been trying to say).

[BluDvlsN1]

Aren't they already out of it with Shabazz? I was talking about UNLV showing that their tradition and pride isn't as dead as it may have seemed.

Shabazz, plays for Grant Rice(Bishop Gorman,Las Vegas), Dave Rice's (UNLV) brother!

Not a slam dunk, but certainly a consideration!

[Gthoma2a]

I love when they write that their team has no weaknesses on their forum. It makes it so much more fun to go back and see how the sky is falling after a loss to an unranked opponent. They got outplayed and outfought.

[COYS]

I love when they write that their team has no weaknesses on their forum. It makes it so much more fun to go back and see how the sky is falling after a loss to an unranked opponent. They got outplayed and outfought.

I will say, however, that losing to unranked UNLV will not seem so surprising by the end of the year. I think UNLV is a top 25 caliber team that has probably been overlooked too much by the media. KenPom has them as being better than every Duke opponent save Kansas. That being said, I do enjoy the sky is falling panic that has ensued after this loss. UNC is a good team and this game doesn't change anything other than to demonstrate that the Heels are not far and away better than the field. Perimeter defense and half-court offense are still questionmarks, especially against tall opponents. Similarly, Barnes' efficiency is a questionmark, as well. I still think they're the team to beatthis season, but I think there are more teams capable of beating them than the preseason hype would have you believe.

[Gthoma2a]

I will say, however, that losing to unranked UNLV will not seem so surprising by the end of the year. I think UNLV is a top 25 caliber team that has probably been overlooked too much by the media. KenPom has them as being better than every Duke opponent save Kansas. That being said, I do enjoy the sky is falling panic that has ensued after this loss. UNC is a good team and this game doesn't change anything other than to demonstrate that the Heels are not far and away better than the field. Perimeter defense and half-court offense are still questionmarks, especially against tall opponents. Similarly, Barnes' efficiency is a questionmark, as well. I still think they're the team to beatthis season, but I think there are more teams capable of beating them than the preseason hype would have you believe.

I know. It is like our loss last year to St. Johns. I just love the chance to get a little revenge for all of the nonsense that I have had to deal with at my office.

[feldspar]

And it appeared to be made by karl "unc" hess.

LOL. This is how you know Karl Hess is a quality official. Duke fans think he's anti-Duke and UNC fans think he's a Duke homer. Sounds like he's doing a great job.

[77devil]

Rarely do I comment on Refs, unless a call is obviously bad, like this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL1y8HoVtY0).

Couldn't resist :)

I couldn't resist either. I'm sure you remember this dissection of the infamous and pervasive Hanstravel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRZSru9uJfc

Of course this wouldn't be complete without an example of well known and common Hansflop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy2MIOK8HAM&feature=related

[Duvall]

LOL. This is how you know Karl Hess is a quality official. Duke fans think he's anti-Duke and UNC fans think he's a Duke homer. Sounds like he's doing a great job.

Or a really terrible one.

[Gthoma2a]

I couldn't resist either. I'm sure you remember this dissection of the infamous and pervasive Hanstravel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRZSru9uJfc

Of course this wouldn't be complete without an example of well known and common Hansflop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy2MIOK8HAM&feature=related

Now now, Tyler was just so good that he could dribble faster than the camera could see. Then, the other player clearly used the force to knock Tyler down. You just have to understand the ways of the Jedi...

[alteran]

I lived in North Carolina for 17 years. But thanks for the lecture on what it's like.

Excellent observation-- it really is tedious when people start lecturing around here.

[feldspar]

Or a really terrible one.

Really terrible officials don't last as long as Karl Hess has in the ACC.

[Duke09]

don't know if anyone else touched on this, but this quote is vintage roy.

http://espn.go.com/blog/north-carolina-basketball/post?id=1269

“I asked a senior, ‘Why did I not call a timeout [during UNLV’s early second half run]?’’’ said Williams, whose team planned to fly home Sunday morning. “And he said, ‘Because you’ve got to be able to handle toughness away from home, when the crowd’s going crazy.’ We’ve got to do a better job of executing, and we didn’t do that. It was a painful lesson, and we’re paying for the lesson by losing.”


uh... Roy has a history of not using timeouts on big runs. I think he just gets flabbergasted and goes into a catatonic state when the 2ndary breack isn't working. He is also implying he could have stopped the UNLV run and thus win the game. See? they let UNLV win.

[OldPhiKap]

Really terrible officials don't last as long as Karl Hess has in the ACC.

Lenny Wirtz sure did.

[Newton_14]

Kind of the point there, Throaty. Calls like that can lead you to the promised land...in a Limo:)

I'm here to entertain, next show at 11.....

Hmm... kind of like this call (http://www.news-record.com/content/2011/01/14/article/foull_on_allen_momentum_swing_tar_heels_needed) on an identical play to the one you linked led UNC to the promised land of finishing first in the ACC Regular Season last year?:cool:

[BD80]

When a call is that bad and a team has to spend the the next 5 minutes wondering if a foul gets called for their next breath of air...it affects their momentum. ...

Not well-coached teams ;)

[devildeac]

haha....i love the "momentum changer" argument........

I did experience a brief chortle from that one, too.:rolleyes:

[devildeac]

In the twisted logic of a Carolina fan who's team used to be the standard bearer of the ACC before K ushered Dean into retirement...yes!

What's funny is that Wheat's exact logic, basically his whole quote, has frequently been used to explain away Carolina's impressive winning history by Carolina haters. With equal validity, I might add. It always ranks high on the irony scale when a Carolina fan complains about Duke being the beneficiary of biased reffing...
Yea, kinda like last night, when unc, again amazingly made more FT than UNLV even attempted. This was despite the fact, as a prior poster phrased it, IIRC, that "they were furiously fouling" late in the game. I wonder what the FTA difference was with about 3-4 minutes left in the game:rolleyes:.

[devildeac]

I couldn't resist either. I'm sure you remember this dissection of the infamous and pervasive Hanstravel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRZSru9uJfc

Of course this wouldn't be complete without an example of well known and common Hansflop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy2MIOK8HAM&feature=related

1. Merely coincidence that Bob Knight counted 5 steps on that guy wearing #50 with no whistle on the play:rolleyes:.
2. I am shocked that the player that ended up spread eagle, mortally wounded and nearly unconscious almost 10 feet from where the incidental contact occurred did not need an air ambulance to the nearest trauma center. Another purely coincidental example:rolleyes:.

[devildeac]

Lenny Wirtz sure did.

As did "Richard" Pooparo:rolleyes:.

[OldPhiKap]

As did "Richard" Pooparo:rolleyes:.

I thought about my good friend Dick Paparo as well -- was he also a Big East ref too? He seemed to do both, and I always chalked up his erratic calls to bi-leagueal schizophrenia.

[DukeGirl4ever]

It matters because of the arguments and strong statements that have come from UNC fans based on the rankings. If their argument is killed for a while, it means I can get some peace and explain that this isn't their 2009 team (like everyone has been trying to say).

Trust me, I get you about the annoying UNC fans and their endless trash talk that never makes any sense.
But, we are Duke fans, therefore we think logically. We know rankings mean nothing right now! ;)

(Honestly, I do understand why people look at rankings....but we all know how it can change in a blink of an eye. Remember a certain team that was pre-season #1 and failed to make the big dance - :cool:
I also hate when we have that target on our backs. I kind of liked sneaking up on everyone in 2010.)

[Orange&BlackSheep]

I'd still like to know what kind of parents name their son Stacey.

"Boy Named Sue" logic.

It seemed to work as he was a pretty tough guy on the court.

[moonpie23]

could someone give me a link of the "momentum changing call" from the vegas game? i just want to see it...

[hurleyfor3]

I thought about my good friend Dick Paparo as well -- was he also a Big East ref too? He seemed to do both, and I always chalked up his erratic calls to bi-leagueal schizophrenia.

I attended a game in Cameron once where he ran all the way from a game he was doing in Syracuse to call a foul under the basket.

[dukeballboy88]

How can a unc fan complain of officiating? They usually shoot 30+ free throws a game. They doubled up UNLV and UNC had to foul to stop the clock at the end of the game. Im confused??? UNC fans should never say a bad word about the refs.

[OldPhiKap]

I attended a game in Cameron once where he ran all the way from a game he was doing in Syracuse to call a foul under the basket.

Now that there's funny.

[elvis14]

How can a unc fan complain of officiating? They usually shoot 30+ free throws a game. They doubled up UNLV and UNC had to foul to stop the clock at the end of the game. Im confused??? UNC fans should never say a bad word about the refs.

As far as I'm concerned, after 4 years of HansCheater, UNC@CH fans have lost their license to say anything about officiating.

[OldPhiKap]

As far as I'm concerned, after 4 years of HansCheater, UNC@CH fans have lost their license to say anything about officiating.

Hell, after 36 years of Dean Smith they shouldn't've been given the license to start.

[dukeballboy88]

OldPhiKap
Hell, after 36 years of Dean Smith they shouldn't've been given the license to start.
I just spit coffee all over my laptop. Now thats funny I dont care who you are!

[gus]

Feet set.√
Outside the arc.√
Singler leaning right shoulder in pre contact.√
Actual contact-bambi head stroke material.√
Singler look-posterized.√
Momentum changer.√
No call play all day.√

There you go Doc, fixed it for you. My friends do it for me around here all the time.
You're welcome :)

What in your reply should suggest it wasn't an offensive foul?

[elvis14]

Hell, after 36 years of Dean Smith they shouldn't've been given the license to start.


I just spit coffee all over my laptop. Now thats funny I dont care who you are!

OldPhiKap, that was hilarious and so true. The HansTravel travesty is just fresher in my mind, I guess.

Did I happen to mention how happy I was when I fell asleep Saturday night after the UNLV game? :-)

[devildeac]

OldPhiKap, that was hilarious and so true. The HansTravel travesty is just fresher in my mind, I guess.

Did I happen to mention how happy I was when I fell asleep Saturday night after the UNLV game? :-)

My wife mentioned something similar as she had a bit of trouble sleeping late Saturday night/early Sunday AM and checked the score of the UNLV-unc game and readily fell asleep very shortly after she saw the final. And she's not even snotty :-)).

[Class of '94]

I don't recall anyone mentioning the fact that Roy has to take some of the blame for the loss due to poor game management. Once again, Roy literally refused to call timeouts when UNLV was making its momemtum runs. I was sitting with my wife watching the game and telling her Roy better call a timeout here, and here and here.....and he never did. I was amazed at how stubborn he appeared to be with regards to calling timeouts. Roy mentioned in today's N&O that he purposelly didn't want to call timeouts because he wanted his team to perservere through adversity and figure it out. I thought that was a big mistake on his part.

[devildeac]

I don't recall anyone mentioning the fact that Roy has to take some of the blame for the loss due to poor game management. Once again, Roy literally refused to call timeouts when UNLV was making its momemtum runs. I was sitting with my wife watching the game and telling her Roy better call a timeout here, and here and here.....and he never did. I was amazed at how stubborn he appeared to be with regards to calling timeouts. Roy mentioned in today's N&O that he purposelly didn't want to call timeouts because he wanted his team to perservere through adversity and figure it out. I thought that was a big mistake on his part.

Pete Gillen had used up all of his timeouts anyway. (jk)

[Matches]

I don't think letting a team take its lumps instead of calling TO is a terrible thing this early in the season. When Roy hoarded TOs in the Final 4 - well - that's another story. He can use an early season game as a teaching moment, though.

[oldnavy]

I don't recall anyone mentioning the fact that Roy has to take some of the blame for the loss due to poor game management. Once again, Roy literally refused to call timeouts when UNLV was making its momemtum runs. I was sitting with my wife watching the game and telling her Roy better call a timeout here, and here and here.....and he never did. I was amazed at how stubborn he appeared to be with regards to calling timeouts. Roy mentioned in today's N&O that he purposelly didn't want to call timeouts because he wanted his team to perservere through adversity and figure it out. I thought that was a big mistake on his part.

You know, I hear that and I want to throw the BS flag... what exactly are they suppossed to figure out? They were executing Roy's game plan. All he does as far as in-game management is stand on the sideline and scream for them to run and push tempo.

This is classic Roy. It was the players fault for not seeing what was happening and then not making course corrections in the way they are coached to play. All this while the coach stands on the sideline providing no help at all.

They were facing and playing through adversity they were just not doing what they needed to do win and the head coach stood there and as usual did nothing. There are a lot of examples where he has done the exact same thing, and like another poster mentioned some in the NCAA tournament where you do not have the luxury of allowing the players to figure it out on their own.

This brings up an interesting question, by not helping the players is he saying that he wanted to lose this game or at least doesn't mind losing? Did he think that his team needed a loss to bring them down to earth? I just do not understand how you stand by and do nothing, when a time out and a simple adjustment may could have won the game. Granted, this game will have little to no impact on the season overall, but come on man, you have to give your kids a chance at winning it.

I wonder what Roy's reaction would have been if Marshall called a timeout on his own to figure it out?? Do you think he would have praised him for taking initiative?

I'm sorry, but this is exactly why I do not like Ol Roy. He is so full of hot air.

UNC lost the game because Roy either has no clue how to make in-game adjustments or he is too obtuse to realize that his game plan is failing or too proud to change it (my vote). So instead he claims it was done with a purpose in mind.... BS!!

[Kedsy]

Remember a certain team that was pre-season #1 and failed to make the big dance - :cool:

I don't remember this. What team was it?

[Olympic Fan]

I don't remember this. What team was it?

I'd be curious to know who you're thinking about too.

The last No. 1 I know of that missed the NCAA Tournament was NC State in 1975 ... but that was back when just two teams per conference got in. State finished No. 7 nationally and would have been a 2 seed in today's format. Since then, the worst preseason No. 1 I can find is 2000 UConn, which finished No. 20 in the final AP poll and was a No. 5 NCAA seed.

I could have missed one ... who?

[throatybeard]

Once again, Roy literally refused to call timeouts when UNLV was making its momemtum runs.

He literally refused to. I think you're on to something here.

The reason Roy isn't as good a coach as Dean Smith is he hasn't figured out how to figuratively call timeouts. That's why Dean always has so many literal timeouts left at the end of the game. He would figuratively call one with 17:00 left, but he wouldn't get around to literally doing it until 0:57.

[DukeGirl4ever]

I'd be curious to know who you're thinking about too.

The last No. 1 I know of that missed the NCAA Tournament was NC State in 1975 ... but that was back when just two teams per conference got in. State finished No. 7 nationally and would have been a 2 seed in today's format. Since then, the worst preseason No. 1 I can find is 2000 UConn, which finished No. 20 in the final AP poll and was a No. 5 NCAA seed.

I could have missed one ... who?

I was referring to that lovely Tar Heel team in 2010.
Now, my memory does not take me back to the actual preseason #1 (as in right before the season in October), but I remember after they won they national championship in '09, the analysts were saying they were the favorite to be preseason #1. This was right after the game, which I think is ridiculous to even start to assume rankings for the following year.

So, UNC may not have been ranked #1 in the first preseason poll as my memory has failed me. But I know they were up there in the discussion.
The original point being, rankings mean nothing early in the season. It just gives ESPN and other sports outlets a reason to pay their analysts.

[Indoor66]

I don't recall anyone mentioning the fact that Roy has to take some of the blame for the loss due to poor game management. Once again, Roy literally refused to call timeouts when UNLV was making its momemtum runs. I was sitting with my wife watching the game and telling her Roy better call a timeout here, and here and here.....and he never did. I was amazed at how stubborn he appeared to be with regards to calling timeouts. Roy mentioned in today's N&O that he purposelly didn't want to call timeouts because he wanted his team to perservere through adversity and figure it out. I thought that was a big mistake on his part.

Roy, like Dean before him, will probably live an extra year using up all their saved time outs.

[Kedsy]

I was referring to that lovely Tar Heel team in 2010.

Oh, OK. UNC was #6 in the pre-season AP poll that year. Still pretty high to be missing the NCAAT, though.

[Billy Dat]

This thread had more views and replies than our win over Kansas (sigh).

It's like the old saw about Howard Stern's listeners, his fans listened for an average of two hours a day, his haters listened for twice as long.

[SupaDave]

This thread had more views and replies than our win over Kansas (sigh).

It's like the old saw about Howard Stern's listeners, his fans listened for an average of two hours a day, his haters listened for twice as long.

More than one reason for it. It's also other posters and snoopers looking to see what is being said - the train wreck scenario but instead we are dancing on someone's grave instead of learning from their death. All that on a day where they actually DID beat US - on a holiday weekend. Everyone's home.

Quite honestly I could care less if they loss. P.J. Hairston getting hot and them learning how to set a freaking back court pick for Marshall are concerns of mine however. Harrison "jumpshot" Barnes is what I always thought he was - not athletic enough. More on that as the year progresses - but you'll soon see. Henson - is the same player to me - just a tad bigger. If anyone saw both centers on Zeller then they know that he cant hold his own in the post long and there's no one but Marshall who can actually give him the ball in the position to score. Strickland makes plays - he's gonna be one of the ones to go pro and we're all gonna be like WTH? Will Roy ever go zone? If not, he's gonna see a lot of this and a team like UVA is just waiting on them. Florida State too.

Biggest thing in the game I noticed is that there was no hesitation from UNLV after getting a rebound. They immediately bolted and Marshall was beat at LEAST 25 times down the court. They were sucking air. These Heels dont do as much running as believed...

[Duvall]

This thread had more views and replies than our win over Kansas (sigh).

Unless you take into account the fact that there are always at least three threads for every Duke games, and in this case several more.