NBA Players/Owners Reach Deal - Game on!

[Newton_14]

Well, looks like Kyrie will get to play this year after all. Deal reached after 149 days. NBA Lockout ends.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7281052/nba-owners-players-tentative-agreement

[nickjyd]

what is the deal with the age limit? Is it 20? Do we get to keep Rivers and future freshmen to come for at least 2 years?

[rthomas]

Does this mean that with only a couple weeks left in the semester that Kyrie has to take an "i" in all of his classes?

[NSDukeFan]

Great news. I am glad there will be some NBA action this year as well. Whether the league has done too much damage after the momentum they had from last season, who knows?

[moonpie23]

awesome news....can't wait to see Kyrie, nolan and singler light it up (hopefully).....

let's play some BALL !!!!!!!

[DukeCrow]

what is the deal with the age limit? Is it 20? Do we get to keep Rivers and future freshmen to come for at least 2 years?

From what I've read, the minimum age is one of the "B-list issues" that still need to be negotiated.

[feldspar]

From what I've read, the minimum age is one of the "B-list issues" that still need to be negotiated.

Right, this is still something that has to be ironed out. Good news is we'll know probably within the next week or so, because neither side is going to let this derail the deal that has been made.

I'm guessing things are going to stay the same. Owners want age 20, players want 18. Easy compromise is to just leave it be.

[Richard Berg]

Does this mean that with only a couple weeks left in the semester that Kyrie has to take an "i" in all of his classes?
Doubtful. First game isn't until Christmas.

[juise]

Doubtful. First game isn't until Christmas.

And he hasn't spent a day with his teammates yet. I'm guessing the Cavs will want him to report the day after the CBA is signed. Hopefully, he can make arrangements to finish his classes.

[heyman25]

Kyrie can finally get back on the basketball court. Hopefully he got his credits for this semester, and can gradually get his Duke B.A.

Kyle is still in Spain. Hopefully Nolan is in game shape.

[loran16]

I'm guessing things are going to stay the same. Owners want age 20, players want 18. Easy compromise is to just leave it be.

This is incorrect. The players don't really care - it doesn't affect them and college players and potential future players are not in the union. If the owners want 20, the players will give it to em.

[feldspar]

This is incorrect. The players don't really care - it doesn't affect them and college players and potential future players are not in the union. If the owners want 20, the players will give it to em.

Actually it's very correct.



http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/26/draft-age-limit-other-b-list-issues-still-to-be-resolved/

"The players have said this is something they want to see moved back to age 18."

The players union has wanted to lower the age limit since the lockout first began.


http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/32528/nba-players-union-wants-lower-age-limit

"Players want to revert back to the pre-2005 rules, where players only had to be 18 years old to declare for the draft. As of now, they must be 19 years old and one year removed from high school graduation."

[BD80]

Actually it's very correct.

The players union has wanted to lower the age limit since the lockout first began.

SMH

This would show how truly stupid the players are as a collective unit if they don't concede. Harsh words, but true. Why expend ANY negotiating capital arguing FOR a provision that will give even one union member's job to a non-member? The only beneficiaries are the agents who negotiate more contracts for unproven players. The union's counsel should sit the players down and explain that it is their best interest for a HIGHER age limit. Now that the union brought in competent counsel, it should happen.

This SHOULD just be a bargaining chip that the players give in on in exchange for a concession on another class B issue

[moonpie23]

SMH

This would show how truly stupid the players are as a collective unit if they don't concede. Harsh words, but true. Why expend ANY negotiating capital arguing FOR a provision that will give even one union member's job to a non-member? The only beneficiaries are the agents who negotiate more contracts for unproven players. The union's counsel should sit the players down and explain that it is their best interest for a HIGHER age limit. Now that the union brought in competent counsel, it should happen.

This SHOULD just be a bargaining chip that the players give in on in exchange for a concession on another class B issue

totally agree...this is NOT something that will benefit the current players......especially the borderline guys....

[loran16]

SMH

This would show how truly stupid the players are as a collective unit if they don't concede. Harsh words, but true. Why expend ANY negotiating capital arguing FOR a provision that will give even one union member's job to a non-member? The only beneficiaries are the agents who negotiate more contracts for unproven players. The union's counsel should sit the players down and explain that it is their best interest for a HIGHER age limit. Now that the union brought in competent counsel, it should happen.

This SHOULD just be a bargaining chip that the players give in on in exchange for a concession on another class B issue

Bingo. Feldspar, you're incorrect. The players union always makes a vocal statement on this issue because they DONT CARE and the OWNERS DO. It's a bargaining point - they're completely willing to give in whenever they get what they want in return. Which they will.

[juise]

And he hasn't spent a day with his teammates yet. I'm guessing the Cavs will want him to report the day after the CBA is signed. Hopefully, he can make arrangements to finish his classes.

Looks like training camp begins December 9th... definitely leaves some room for Kyrie to get his classes sorted. Hopefully, the Cavs give him until then. I guess he still has a contract to work out.

[feldspar]

Bingo. Feldspar, you're incorrect. .

Oh good grief. You could at least acknowledge that you're arguing semantics here.

I'm saying that the union says they want it 18. That's undisputed. That's what they've said.

You're saying the union is only saying that as a bargaining chip, that they don't really mean it.

These two statements are not mutually exclusive.

[loran16]

Oh good grief. You could at least acknowledge that you're arguing semantics here.

I'm saying that the union says they want it 18. That's undisputed. That's what they've said.

You're saying the union is only saying that as a bargaining chip, that they don't really mean it.

These two statements are not mutually exclusive.

Well your original statement was that the "players want 18." Not that the players "say they want 18." Not the same.

[-jk]

OK, guys. Let's move the discussion on...

-jk

[UrinalCake]

I wonder if the compressed schedule will work in Nolan and Kyle's favor - since the teams are playing more often (including some stretches of games on three consecutive days) teams will need to use their benches more. On the other hand, there's less time for practice and presumably a shortened training camp.

As for the veteran players, they'll have games more often but also a shorter season. Maybe time for one last hurrah for the Celtics and Lakers.

[Matches]

SMH

This would show how truly stupid the players are as a collective unit if they don't concede. Harsh words, but true. Why expend ANY negotiating capital arguing FOR a provision that will give even one union member's job to a non-member?

The union is supposed to look out not only for current players, but future ones as well. The goal is to have the most player-friendly system possible, not just to preserve the jobs of the current players.

[dcdevil2009]

The union is supposed to look out not only for current players, but future ones as well. The goal is to have the most player-friendly system possible, not just to preserve the jobs of the current players.

True, but the age limit is something that creates a direct conflict between current and future players, so no matter what their stance, one group isn't being served. From what I've seen concerning the last CBA and the age limit, it is something the current players are ideologically opposed to even if it costs current players jobs. However, a one year (and maybe two year) limit is arguably better for both current and future players because it helps filter out high school players who get drafted on potential, but don't fulfil it. Essentially, the age limit takes jobs and money from unproven high schoolers and gives it to slightly more tested one and dones. At the expense of a year of eligibility, the age limit does a better job of tying pay to performance. Additionally, the one year rule gives the league a free year of marketing, which likely increases interest in the players (and league) when they go pro and generates more BRI. Guys like Kevin Durant and John Wall, who lost a year of eligibility earned shoe deals during their one year in college that they likely wouldn't have gotten out of high school, while simultaneously raising their draft position to a better reflection of their ability.

It seems like Union's desire to get rid of the age limit is short-sighted to the extent that owners/GMs make riskier, potential-based picks that don't pan out. If you look at the drafts before the age limit, there were many more busts than post age limit drafts. Furthermore, if there were no age limit, guys like Renardo Sidney and Lance Stephenson would have been lottery picks out of high school. They would have gotten paid more, but it would come at the expense of more deserving union members. They also wouldn't sell tickets and generate revenue based on their high school accomplishments, so the BRI would be smaller, providing high school draft picks a bigger slice of a smaller pie.

[Billy Dat]

A lot of the recent coverage I have seen indicate that the rule may stay as is, allowing for one and dones. I have heard K, in interviews, support allowing high school guys to skip directly to the pros but that, if they go to college, they have to stay for 2 years. Selfishly, I hope they keep the age limit so that the great talents play in college for at least a year, but I see why the players would want that freedom.

I am just glad to have my pro hoops back. I wonder where free agent Shane will wind up?

[Bluedog]

I am just glad to have my pro hoops back. I wonder where free agent Shane will wind up?

People are saying Miami is very interested as well as OKC. Both title contenders, so I'm sure Shane would be a good fit at either place.

[Matches]

People are saying Miami is very interested as well as OKC. Both title contenders, so I'm sure Shane would be a good fit at either place.

I'm hoping against hope that he doesn't sign with Miami, as I would then be conflicted about whether I should hate them. I like my hate to be pure.

re: the age limit - I agree totally with K. Not a fan at all of making guys go to college if they don't want to, but if they are going to go, I want them there long enough for them to make credible attempts at being students.

[JasonEvans]

Rick Bucher on ESPN this morning said he is hearing the 2yr/20 age limit would go in place for the 2012 draft. Not set in stone yet, but he says the owners really want it because they want rookies that the public knows a bit better and who are more polished. The players apparently have no desire to fight the owners on this.

-Jason "I am in favor of the baseball model-- if you want to go from HS, go. but if you go to college, stick around for 3 years" Evans

[Billy Dat]

Rick Bucher on ESPN this morning said he is hearing the 2yr/20 age limit would go in place for the 2012 draft. Not set in stone yet, but he says the owners really want it because they want rookies that the public knows a bit better and who are more polished. The players apparently have no desire to fight the owners on this.

-Jason "I am in favor of the baseball model-- if you want to go from HS, go. but if you go to college, stick around for 3 years" Evans

Even better - that would be great for both the college and pro game. I wonder, though, if it will provide more motivation for some kind of ex-pat, ex-US community to form whereby kids with the ability will head overseas to get paid and get better. I don't think it's likely - the two most recent example of Jeremy Tyler and Brandon Jennings were not huge endorsements of the idea - but two years is a considerable amount of time for these top guys to wait to get paid. Sonny Vaccaro must be scheming somewhere.

Shifting gears, the end of the lockout means that K will head to London this summer with a team of NBA All Stars which I am sure is some comfort to him.

[toooskies]

Honestly, I think the Players' Union should be completely on board with the 20-year limit in the short term (i.e. this bargaining agreement). Enforcing that rule, and increasing the number of years which elite players stay in college, will increase pressure on the NCAA to pay their players if they have them longer. If colleges start paying players, then it will keep more players employed in the college game as well as increase leverage for the NBPA. It may be against their ideal of getting LeBrons into the league as soon as they're legal adults, but I think they'd serve their financial interests better.

[UrinalCake]

I wonder if the NBA would consider allowing players under the age limit to play in the D-league. That would provide a viable option for kids who don't want to go to college. I know that the NBA isn't really interested in babysitting players for two years, but the top guys would be pretty marketable and then by the time they turned 20 they'd be more prepared for the NBA.

ESPN has a great article on the changes enacted by the new proposed CBA. It's a good read if you're interested in the business/financial side of the NBA. The players made a huge concession by agreeing to the 50/50 BRI split, but were able to avoid a hard salary cap. Instead, a bunch of complex rules were put in place to help out small-market teams.

link (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CBA-111128/how-new-nba-deal-compares-last-one)

[moonpie23]

I wonder if the NBA would consider allowing players under the age limit to play in the D-league. That would provide a viable option for kids who don't want to go to college. I know that the NBA isn't really interested in babysitting players for two years, but the top guys would be pretty marketable and then by the time they turned 20 they'd be more prepared for the NBA.



link (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CBA-111128/how-new-nba-deal-compares-last-one)

i've been saying that for years...the D-league is a gold mine just waiting to happen....

[feldspar]

If the owners want 20, the players will give it to em.

Hmm...not so much, it appears.

NBA Age Requirement For Eligibility Expected to Remain at 19-Years-Old (http://tracking.si.com/2011/11/30/nba-age-requirement-for-eligibility-expected-to-remain-at-19-years-old/)

[Duvall]

Hmm...not so much, it appears.

NBA Age Requirement For Eligibility Expected to Remain at 19-Years-Old (http://tracking.si.com/2011/11/30/nba-age-requirement-for-eligibility-expected-to-remain-at-19-years-old/)

Maybe. It's not clear how much the owners cared about 20 as opposed to 19. As long as they can prevent themselves from being able to draft high school kids, anything else is a bonus.

[BD80]

Hmm...not so much, it appears.

NBA Age Requirement For Eligibility Expected to Remain at 19-Years-Old (http://tracking.si.com/2011/11/30/nba-age-requirement-for-eligibility-expected-to-remain-at-19-years-old/)

It stays at 19 for the 1st 2 years of this CBA, then 20. The 2014 draft won't have 19 year-olds, and will probably be an awful draft.

[JasonEvans]

It stays at 19 for the 1st 2 years of this CBA, then 20. The 2014 draft won't have 19 year-olds, and will probably be an awful draft.

See, this is why they should have made the 20 year old thing go into effect right away. The 2012 draft will already be loaded with sophs who stayed an extra year because of uncertainty about the NBA labor situation. Even if you put in the 20 year old limit, you would still have Sullinger, Barnes, TJones, PJones, DLamb, and JLamb who all could have come out as freshmen but stayed around. It would still be a very good draft.

But, by waiting a few years they raise the possibility of the 2014 draft being just godawful. This was the year to implement the new rule.

-Jason "ahh well, the owners and players rarely actually think ahead" Evans

[gam7]

It stays at 19 for the 1st 2 years of this CBA, then 20. The 2014 draft won't have 19 year-olds, and will probably be an awful draft.

So, you're saying we'll have Jabari Parker, Julius Randle and Nerlens Noel each for at least two years? I can live with that.