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Jim3k
11-25-2011, 03:27 AM
Johnny's Stanford Cardinal is doing fairly well in the early going. They are 5-0 and head into the preseason NIT Championship game against Syracuse Friday at 5 p.m. EST in MSG. They got there by defeating Okie State 82-67. Here is the Daily News story (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/duke-guard-johnny-dawkins-back-madison-square-garden-surging-stanford-article-1.982519). Looks like it's on ESPN.

Whether Stanford is for real this year remains to be seen, but they are on the right track for now.

duke09hms
11-25-2011, 10:08 AM
Tommy Amaker has the Crimson at 4-0 facing #22 FSU at 4:30pm today in the finals of the Battle for Atlantis tournament in the Bermudas after blowing out Utah and Loyola Marymount (which beat UCLA). How many mid-majors do you see on the good end of blowouts? Looks like they got some firepower.

Statement games for both programs. Let's go Crimson/Cardinal and of course DUKE!

JasonEvans
11-25-2011, 01:42 PM
Tommy Amaker has the Crimson at 4-0 facing #22 FSU at 4:30pm today in the finals of the Battle for Atlantis tournament in the Bermudas after blowing out Utah and Loyola Marymount (which beat UCLA). How many mid-majors do you see on the good end of blowouts? Looks like they got some firepower.

Statement games for both programs. Let's go Crimson/Cardinal and of course DUKE!

Not quite competely accurate with regard to Harvard/Tommy.

They beat Utah in the first round of the Battle for Atlantis. The game against Loyola was not part of the tournament, I think.
They do play FSU today in the semis. The winner of that game is likely to face UConn in the finals (UConn plays S.Fla in the other semi). Here is (http://www.atlantis.com/promotions/battle4atlantis/brackets.aspx) the bracket.

Win or lose today, Harvard will play UConn in a regular season game in a couple weeks on December 8th.

-Jason "I think Harvard has an excellent chance to only lose 3 or 4 games this year-- maybe earn as high as a #8 seed in the tourney" Evans

uh_no
11-25-2011, 02:09 PM
UConn plays S.Fla in the other semi

Just to clarify, UCF not USF

JasonEvans
11-25-2011, 04:53 PM
Just to clarify, UCF not USF

Yup my bad.... and UConn lost so the loser of FSU-Hahvahd will play UConn for 3rd place in the tourney.

-Jason

pfrduke
11-25-2011, 04:58 PM
Yup my bad.... and UConn lost so the loser of FSU-Hahvahd will play UConn for 3rd place in the tourney.

-Jason

Is espn.com correct that it's currently 7-0 Harvard after 11 full minutes of play? That seems impossible...

CDu
11-25-2011, 05:05 PM
Is espn.com correct that it's currently 7-0 Harvard after 11 full minutes of play? That seems impossible...

The 7 part seems completely reasonable given FSU's defensive abilities. The 0 part seems a bit surprising, but FSU tends to be pretty terrible offensively.

JasonEvans
11-25-2011, 05:08 PM
6:53 left in the 1st half, Harvard 8, FSU 7.

Harvard is currently 1-16 from the field, for a 5.9% FG percentage. FSU is burning it up at 3-21, or 14.3%.

If either of these teams can hit 1/3rd of their shots, this one could be a blow out.

-Jason "Go Tommy... go ACC... so conflicted!" Evans

juise
11-25-2011, 05:36 PM
Halftime... knotted at 14. FSU shooting 21%. Harvard shooting 13%.

JasonEvans
11-25-2011, 05:57 PM
Harvard has been on an orgy of points lately... they've scored 4 points in the past 4 minutes of play. Simply unheard of in this game.

With 12 minutes to go, it is Harvard 21 and FSU 16.

-Jason "Wesley Saunders, the freshman that I raved about Tommy signing last year just had a sweet crossover and slam in the lane" Evans

SilkyJ
11-25-2011, 05:58 PM
12 mins left in the 2nd half. Score is an ugly 21-18 (yes, that's accurate). It was 14-14 at half. 13 combined FGs so far.

Its on Versus (at least it is on FIOS)

snowdenscold
11-25-2011, 05:59 PM
I just saw 21-18 w/ 11:34 to go in the SECOND half and thought the TV must have had their graphic wrong. But you all have confirmed this is just a very odd game.

juise
11-25-2011, 06:07 PM
Now 26-24 Harvard with ~8 minutes remaining. ESPN's "game flow" graphic just teased me by adjusting the Y-axis to a 40-point scale. Apparently, they think this one's going to end up a barn-burner. ;)

burnspbesq
11-25-2011, 06:11 PM
Stanford 25, Syracuse 24 at the half. Cardinal have had no trouble getting into the heart of the Syracuse zone, but their decision-making once they get in there has been shaky.

burnspbesq
11-25-2011, 06:15 PM
We can haz teevee?

juise
11-25-2011, 06:19 PM
We can haz teevee?

SilkyJ said it's on Versus in another thread. I can't confirm that since I don't get that channel.

SilkyJ
11-25-2011, 06:26 PM
Yea didn't see this thread but it is on Versus. Harvard just hit a three with 50 seconds left, got a steal, and made both FTs, up 8.

As I type, FSU layup to cut it to 6 with 35 seconds.

duke09hms
11-25-2011, 06:37 PM
Harvard out-toughs #20 FSU to win 46-41. Can Stanford hold on against #5 Syracuse? Tied 43-43 with 13 min. left in game.

burnspbesq
11-25-2011, 06:44 PM
With six minutes to go, BC is tied with UC Riverside, which was picked to finish fifth in the Big West. Yuck!

Bob Green
11-25-2011, 06:47 PM
Not surprising, Stanford plays solid defense and has good ball movement. With 7:51 left, Stanford owns the largest lead of the game 50-45.

duke09hms
11-25-2011, 06:49 PM
Stanford up 55-47 with 6:30 left in game. Wow. Come on Cardinal

burnspbesq
11-25-2011, 06:52 PM
Duke and Long Beach kick off at the top of the hour. Live video at goduke.com.

Bob Green
11-25-2011, 07:01 PM
Syracuse is achieving some success by pressing full court. Stanford's lead has been cut to 60-58 with the Orange going to the line to try and finish a 3-point play. It is time for Coach Dawkins to make an adjustment.

duke09hms
11-25-2011, 07:05 PM
Syracuse showing the poise to retake the lead. Stanford is showing its youth - going away from properly attacking the 2-3 zone. Lots of passes along the perimeter and then forcing bad shots late in the shot clock.

Bob Green
11-25-2011, 07:12 PM
A tough loss for the Cardinal, but it appears Coach Dawkins has assembled a talent team that will make a lot of noise in the Pacific 12 Conference this season.

Devilsfan
11-25-2011, 07:13 PM
Johnny's team reminds me of our FB team. Talent, hard workers but they don't seem to be able to close the deal yet. Orange had a 13-3 run at the very end of the game.

COYS
11-25-2011, 07:19 PM
Harvard out-toughs #20 FSU to win 46-41. Can Stanford hold on against #5 Syracuse? Tied 43-43 with 13 min. left in game.

Big congrats to Amaker! They will most likely own the Ivy League this season. I'm hoping Harvard has an incredible year, earns a 9 seed (the highest seed any Ivy team has had in a long, long while) and upsets 1 seed UNC in the second round, advancing all the way to the Elite 8 before falling to surprise 2 seed Stanford. Then Amaker gets a big money deal to take over at a big conference school leaving Harvard to return to basketball irrelevance and allowing my beloved Princeton Tigers to retake their rightful atop the Ivy League :).

duke09hms
11-25-2011, 07:23 PM
Tough loss for Dawkins and the Cardinal. Had the game well in hand then made a lot of "young" mistakes - bad turnovers, poor shot selection to give up a big lead at the end.

Great coaching by Johnny D to attack the 2-3 zone so effectively throughout the game until the end. I think the Cardinal have the potential to make a big run at the Pac-12 title, they should finish near the top this year.

OldPhiKap
11-25-2011, 07:24 PM
Big congrats to Amaker! They will most likely own the Ivy League this season. I'm hoping Harvard has an incredible year, earns a 9 seed (the highest seed any Ivy team has had in a long, long while) and upsets 1 seed UNC in the second round, advancing all the way to the Elite 8 before falling to surprise 2 seed Stanford. Then Amaker gets a big money deal to take over at a big conference school leaving Harvard to return to basketball irrelevance and allowing my beloved Princeton Tigers to retake their rightful atop the Ivy League :).

I am very happy for Tommy and Johnny, two of my all-time favorites. Hope they both go far in the tourney this year, just not in any match-ups with Duke (I hated the few we have had as is -- I seem to recall K meeting Quin in the tourney, and maybe a regular season game with Tommy at Michigan that had been scheduled before he got there. Hell, I hate facing Mike Brey).

subzero02
11-25-2011, 07:31 PM
A big win for Tommy and the Crimson; I wish I had been able to watch.
http://m.espn.go.com/ncb/gamecast?gameId=313290108&wjb=

DukieInBrasil
11-25-2011, 07:42 PM
A big win for Tommy and the Crimson; I wish I had been able to watch.
I dont know about that, from the box score it looks like it was pretty ugly shooting night for both teams. 14-14 at the half to tie for the lowest half-time score in like 25 years. Still, great win for TA.

duke09hms
11-25-2011, 08:10 PM
Johnny's team reminds me of our FB team. Talent, hard workers but they don't seem to be able to close the deal yet. Orange had a 13-3 run at the very end of the game.

Hey don't insult Dawkins' team like that. Just kidding, but in all seriousness they actually beat the teams they're supposed to beat.

-bdbd
11-26-2011, 12:34 AM
I dont know about that, from the box score it looks like it was pretty ugly shooting night for both teams. 14-14 at the half to tie for the lowest half-time score in like 25 years. Still, great win for TA.

I looked up the detail of the write-up and points-flow of both games. This wasn't a fluke win at all for Harvard, as they led for the majority of the second half, and I don't believe ever trailed after the 8-minutes-remaining mark. Generally were up by 4-8 points. And I too prefer to see high-scoring over intense defense styles games, but there is certainly something to be said for appreciating great defense. You can't blame it ALL on just bad shooting -- these are two VERY good defensive teams. I mean, a top-20 team doesn't go scoreless for the first ten minutes of a game (!!) entirely on their own...

Gotta feel for Johnny D., as Stanford led for almost all of their game with top-10 Syracuse, but just blew apart in the last four minutes (they led with under 4:00 remaining, and still were within 1 at the 1:30 mark). Knowing JD, this team will keep learning and maturing - they are pretty darned young after all - and will be much better at closing out wins come Feb. and March. Pac-12 really better watch out! (BTW, from the embrace and extended chat right after the game, it appears that JD and Boeheim have a mutually-respectful/positive relationship. Not surprising given K's tightness with Boeheim.)

Really great to see both of these guys doing so well now. The (K coaching) tree is clearly bearing fruit!


- BD- "As a Harvard fan I'll take a "ugly" upset over a top-20 team ANY DAY" -BD :rolleyes:

Orange&BlackSheep
11-26-2011, 01:40 AM
Big congrats to Amaker! They will most likely own the Ivy League this season. I'm hoping Harvard has an incredible year, earns a 9 seed (the highest seed any Ivy team has had in a long, long while) and upsets 1 seed UNC in the second round, advancing all the way to the Elite 8 before falling to surprise 2 seed Stanford. Then Amaker gets a big money deal to take over at a big conference school leaving Harvard to return to basketball irrelevance and allowing my beloved Princeton Tigers to retake their rightful atop the Ivy League :).

I am so with you on this plan.

@ BD ... There is no such thing as a Harvard fan.

juise
11-26-2011, 07:10 PM
Tommy and the Crimson take the Paradise Jam with a 59-49 victory over UCF. Here's to continued success for Tommy and Johnny.

JasonEvans
11-26-2011, 09:53 PM
When was the last time Harvard was ranked? Ever? They will likely be around #20-#22 this coming week... and they deserve to be there.

-Jason "mad congrats to Tommy -- some major programs are going to come calling soon!" Evans

JasonEvans
11-26-2011, 10:25 PM
Speaking of Johnny and Stanford, we may get a chance to play them next year.

Duke will be in the Battle for Atlantis next season Nov 22-24. It is a really impressive field-- Duke, Louisville, Memphis, Minnesota, Missouri, VCU, Stanford, and Northern Iowa. Seth Davis says it is likely the most impressive preseason tourney field for next season (Maui was clearly #1 this year).

--Jason "may have to take a vacation to Paradise Island next November!" Evans

JasonEvans
11-28-2011, 12:07 AM
Seth Davis tweeted tonight that he has Harvard at #25 on his AP Poll ballot this week. Wish it had been higher.

-Jason "FWIW, he has us at #3 and Carolina at #8" Evans

Olympic Fan
12-02-2011, 01:39 AM
Nothing earthshaking, but both Tommy and Johnny won on the road Thursday night.

Amaker's Harvard Crimson won 55-48 at Vermont to go 7-0. They are at Boston U. Friday night. They get Boston College after Christmas.

Dawkins' Stanford Cardinal won 72-49 at Seattle to go 7-1. Their only loss was a tough 69-63 loss to Syracuse in the Garden.

Stanford will face NC State in Palo Alto Sunday at 4 p.m. Hate to pull against an ACC school, but got to give Johnny D some love.

duke09hms
12-04-2011, 08:29 PM
Johnny D and Stanford take out NC State 76-72 with a 17-1 run over the last six minutes to come back from 12 down in the 2nd half.

Tommy Amaker and Harvard stay perfect, dominating Seattle 80-70 and leading throughout the whole game. The victory sets up a date with #10 UConn on Thursday. Crazy as it sounds, I can actually see Harvard making it through the season with possibly only 1 loss.

Duvall
12-04-2011, 08:41 PM
Tommy Amaker and Harvard stay perfect, dominating Seattle 80-70 and leading throughout the whole game. The victory sets up a date with #10 UConn on Thursday. Crazy as it sounds, I can actually see Harvard making it through the season with possibly only 1 loss.

At Princeton?

uh_no
12-04-2011, 08:48 PM
Johnny D and Stanford take out NC State 76-72 with a 17-1 run over the last six minutes to come back from 12 down in the 2nd half.

Tommy Amaker and Harvard stay perfect, dominating Seattle 80-70 and leading throughout the whole game. The victory sets up a date with #10 UConn on Thursday. Crazy as it sounds, I can actually see Harvard making it through the season with possibly only 1 loss.

Uconn seems to have seen a bit of a change since boatright became eligible. I'm greatly looking forward to this weeks matchup

COYS
12-04-2011, 10:45 PM
At Princeton?

From your mouth to God's ears.

CameronBornAndBred
12-05-2011, 01:07 PM
Havahd gets some love and is ranked at 24th in the Coaches poll.

dpslaw
12-13-2011, 11:54 AM
Kenpom has Stanford at 15, first in the Pac-(insert number here).

COYS
12-14-2011, 10:28 AM
Kenpom has Stanford at 15, first in the Pac-(insert number here).

And, according to KenPom, currently out-defensing Johnny's alma mater. The Cardinal's D is ranked at 9 in the nation.

Bob Green
12-30-2011, 06:32 PM
Stanford defeated UCLA 60-59 last night so The Cardinal are off to a 1-0 start in PAC 12 play. Next up is USC on Saturday afternoon.

http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=313630024

Newton_14
12-30-2011, 11:29 PM
Stanford defeated UCLA 60-59 last night so The Cardinal are off to a 1-0 start in PAC 12 play. Next up is USC on Saturday afternoon.

http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=313630024

Go, Go Johnny Go Go Go!

Very glad to see Dawkins getting it done. They do not have superior talent by any stretch, so the level he has them playing at is all the more impressive. Would love to see how well Johnny could do if he had the horses of a top 5 team.

basket1544
12-30-2011, 11:39 PM
Harvard won last night against Boston College. I wish I could see some of those games. Tommy's really got a good group of guys.

burnspbesq
12-31-2011, 05:58 PM
Crimson trailed by ten at the half, and didn't take the lead until less than two minutes remained. Good, tough, confidence-inspiring win as they head into the new year.

A measure of how things are changing at Harvard: the home games against Princeton and Penn are sold out eight weeks in advance.

tommy
02-10-2012, 05:57 PM
I am officially worried about Johnny at Stanford. After a 10-1 start, the Cardinal is now 16-8, 6-6 in the lousy Pac-12, and has lost 5 of its last 6. That's 7th place in the conference, with only one quality conference win, over Colorado.

I saw the 2nd half of the game against UCLA last night. UCLA is utterly mediocre, but they were better than Stanford. Chase Randle is a nice player, but the overall talent level of the Stanford squad is just lacking. I don't have any idea how they stayed with Syracuse earlier in the year, but in watching these guys, they were just not impressive. No chance at an NCAA bid unless they make an extremely unexpected run in the conference tournament. Not good.

Olympic Fan
02-10-2012, 07:08 PM
When I saw the revival of this thread, I thought it was about tonight's game.

Harvard (6-0 in the Ivy) is at Penn (4-1) at 7 p.m. Tomorrow night they are at Princeton (a very unimpressive 2-3).

Right now, Harvard, Yale (5-1) and Penn are the only real contenders in the Ivy. Harvard crushed Yale at Yale. Win tonight and Tommy's Crimson is in great shape in the league. Lose tonight and it's a three team race.

Sorry about Johnny';s Cardinal. Stanford has played themselves out of at-large contention. The only way they can make the field is to win the Pac 12 Tournament.

Olympic Fan
02-10-2012, 09:06 PM
Harvard 56, Penn 50 -- final ... looking very good for Tommy and the Ivy title

Indoor66
02-10-2012, 09:09 PM
Harvard 56, Penn 50 -- final ... looking very good for Tommy and the Ivy title

Princeton tomorrow night on one of the ESPN channels.

94duke
02-11-2012, 10:47 PM
Princeton won, 70 - 62.

hurleyfor3
02-11-2012, 11:16 PM
They stormed the court after beating Harvard. That's cute.

Olympic Fan
02-11-2012, 11:19 PM
Princeton won, 70 - 62.

Tough loss for Tommy and Harvard. With a win, they really could have taken a leg up in the Ivy race. But they are still in good shape. As it stands:

Harvard 7-1
Yale 6-2
Penn 5-2
Cornell 5-3
Princeton 4-3


Considering the schedule, they're in better shape than it looks. They have Yale, Penn and Princeton all scheduled to visit Cambridge. In fact, their next four games are at home before they finish up with Columbia (which should be a gimmie) and Cornell on the road. The trick is to lock up the Ivy crown before the Cornell game.

g-money
02-19-2012, 11:14 PM
I am officially worried about Johnny at Stanford. After a 10-1 start, the Cardinal is now 16-8, 6-6 in the lousy Pac-12, and has lost 5 of its last 6. That's 7th place in the conference, with only one quality conference win, over Colorado.

I saw the 2nd half of the game against UCLA last night. UCLA is utterly mediocre, but they were better than Stanford. Chase Randle is a nice player, but the overall talent level of the Stanford squad is just lacking. I don't have any idea how they stayed with Syracuse earlier in the year, but in watching these guys, they were just not impressive. No chance at an NCAA bid unless they make an extremely unexpected run in the conference tournament. Not good.

I attended tonight's Stanford game against Oregon, and it seemed to be the kind of game that can really break a team's morale. Stanford led the entire way until the last 4 minutes or so when Oregon just took the game away from them. Singler the Younger made some huge plays down the stretch.

To be honest, in this game I think Johnny's stoic demeanor cost Stanford a little bit. The referees blew some calls that would have sent K through the roof, but as far as I could tell Johnny essentially let them off the hook. I hate to say it but in basketball, the ability/willingness to work the refs from time to time is critical to building a winning program.

The other thing I noticed was that Oregon seemed to be winning a lot of the hustle plays (offensive rebounds, loose balls). I don't know enough about the talent levels of the two teams to say whether this was the result of better talent or more desire on Oregon's part. But here again I can't help but think that the results might have been different if Johnny showed a little bit more fire from the bench. I simply don't think he'll get maximum effort out of a group of 18-year-old kids without raising his voice every once in a while. :) (Of course, it could be that he saves that for practice...)

In any case, I really hope Johnny is given the chance to keep moving the Stanford program forward. He is on his way to a significantly improved record over last season, albeit within an extremely weak Pac 12. He's done well with recruiting despite being a long way from home. He's got a roster full of great kids.

The way the football program turned around out here under Harbaugh tells you that anything is possible. We are all pulling for you J.D.!

hurleyfor3
02-22-2012, 01:29 PM
I attended tonight's Stanford game against Oregon, and it seemed to be the kind of game that can really break a team's morale. Stanford led the entire way until the last 4 minutes or so when Oregon just took the game away from them. Singler the Younger made some huge plays down the stretch.

I'll be attending the Stanford/Colorado game Thursday night in Boulder. Yes, this is the same time as our game against FSU, but it's the best chance I have to see Johnny. If there's anything I should look for/expect, I'd be grateful to know.

Duvall
02-22-2012, 01:34 PM
I'll be attending the Stanford/Colorado game Thursday night in Boulder. Yes, this is the same time as our game against FSU, but it's the best chance I have to see Johnny.

Unlikely - Duke plays at 7 PM ET tomorrow.

hurleyfor3
02-22-2012, 01:39 PM
Unlikely - Duke plays at 7 PM ET tomorrow.

Confound these time zones. I thought we were the late game. CU/Stanford tips off at 8.30 here, so I should be able to catch all of our game. But I won't be on the boards to hand out bans to people who vent in the in-game thread if we get down 20.

throatybeard
02-22-2012, 09:10 PM
Confound these time zones. I thought we were the late game. CU/Stanford tips off at 8.30 here, so I should be able to catch all of our game. But I won't be on the boards to hand out bans to people who vent in the in-game thread if we get down 20.

Oh, hamburgers! Who is on Screaming Howler Panic Monkey Patrol? I hate having to swing the hammer.

Orange&BlackSheep
02-22-2012, 09:20 PM
They stormed the court after beating Harvard. That's cute.

We just went to congratulate the team. As it happens, the team was on the court at the time.

Just sayin'

Orange & Black Sheep

-jk
02-22-2012, 09:25 PM
We just went to congratulate the team. As it happens, the team was on the court at the time.

Just sayin'

Orange & Black Sheep

Looks like a busy weekend for Tommy coming up. Don't really want to see you lose, but I do have a soft spot for Tommy still.

-jk

jimsumner
02-22-2012, 10:26 PM
Looks like a busy weekend for Tommy coming up. Don't really want to see you lose, but I do have a soft spot for Tommy still.

-jk

I haven't forgiven Princeton for stealing Bill Bradley. And that was in 1961.

So, go Harvard.

Jim3k
02-22-2012, 11:12 PM
I haven't forgiven Princeton for stealing Bill Bradley. And that was in 1961.

So, go Harvard.


I'm with you, Jim.

-jk
02-22-2012, 11:20 PM
I haven't forgiven Princeton for stealing Bill Bradley. And that was in 1961.

So, go Harvard.

And my mother never forgave Bill Bradley. In fact, she cursed him whenever he appeared on tv - which was remarkably often.

-jk

WakeDevil
02-23-2012, 08:57 AM
http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/02/23/1877277/lin-creates-an-opening-for-the.html

Amaker knows about helping a program gain traction. His arrival at Duke in 1987 as a point guard allowed Johnny Dawkins - now the coach at Stanford - to move to shooting guard. The rest, as they say, is unfortunate for anyone who hates Duke's basketball program.

sagegrouse
02-23-2012, 09:11 AM
http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/02/23/1877277/lin-creates-an-opening-for-the.html

Amaker knows about helping a program gain traction. His arrival at Duke in 1987 as a point guard allowed Johnny Dawkins - now the coach at Stanford - to move to shooting guard. The rest, as they say, is unfortunate for anyone who hates Duke's basketball program.

Good point. One nit -- Tommy was Class of 1987. He arrived at Duke for the 1983-1984 season.

sage

WakeDevil
02-23-2012, 09:39 AM
Barry just informed me that I'm behind about two hundred other Duke fans in alerting him to his mistake. He should be happy he's getting read.

devildeac
02-24-2012, 06:32 PM
I haven't forgiven Princeton for stealing Bill Bradley. And that was in 1961.

So, go Harvard.


I'm with you, Jim.


And my mother never forgave Bill Bradley. In fact, she cursed him whenever he appeared on tv - which was remarkably often.

-jk

Wow, you gentlemen need to let this one go. It has been 50+ years and Bill Bradley is not coming to Duke to play hoops. I hope we are not holding grudges like this in 2062 against Georgetown, Kin-tucky, Michigan and unc because Greg Monroe, Patrick Patterson, Mitch McGary and the Black Pigeon did not play MBB at Duke:rolleyes:.















(I'm not really serious with the above comments. Just wanted to poke a wee bit of fun at Jim, Jim and -jk 2428.)

-jk
02-24-2012, 06:53 PM
Wow, you gentlemen need to let this one go. It has been 50+ years and Bill Bradley is not coming to Duke to play hoops. I hope we are not holding grudges like this in 2062 against Georgetown, Kin-tucky, Michigan and unc because Greg Monroe, Patrick Patterson, Mitch McGary and the Black Pigeon did not play MBB at Duke:rolleyes:.















(I'm not really serious with the above comments. Just wanted to poke a wee bit of fun at Jim, Jim and -jk 2428.)

The Bradley story is much more than just picking a different school. He committed and at the very last moment reneged. Too late to sign the backup prospect - who really wanted to come to Duke.

I'm sure Jim can fill in the details (he's told the story several times).

-jk

Indoor66
02-24-2012, 07:24 PM
The Bradley story is much more than just picking a different school. He committed and at the very last moment reneged. Too late to sign the backup prospect - who really wanted to come to Duke.

I'm sure Jim can fill in the details (he's told the story several times).

-jk

It is not only that Bradley didn't come to Duke. He was to take the scholarship we would have used for Fred Hetzel - who then went to Davidson and, with Terry Holland, led that Lefty coached team to prominence. We took a double whammy on that deal.

pfrduke
02-24-2012, 08:39 PM
Harvard and Princeton going down to the wire again. Tigers ball, down 3, 1:30 to play.

-jk
02-24-2012, 08:54 PM
And Tommy for the win 67-64.

-jk

pfrduke
02-24-2012, 09:12 PM
And Tommy for the win 67-64.

-jk

Does the Ivy use any tiebreaker (specifically, head-to-head record) if there's a tie for first? If so, Harvard can clinch the league title with a win over Penn tomorrow. If not, it will need one more win next week to wrap it up.

-bdbd
02-24-2012, 09:34 PM
Does the Ivy use any tiebreaker (specifically, head-to-head record) if there's a tie for first? If so, Harvard can clinch the league title with a win over Penn tomorrow. If not, it will need one more win next week to wrap it up.

'don't know all of the Ivy rules, but last year Harvard and Princeton finished the season tied, and played a 1 game playoff for the NCAA birth on a neutral court, I think, at Yale. Princeton won at the buzzer. I don't think the Ivy is going to need a tie-breaker this year, as Harvard look to be the cream of the crop.

Tonight they finally went ahead with under 7 minutes to go, made a bunch of FT's down the stretch, and withstood Princeton by 3 in the end. They host Penn tomorrow I believe.

From the Gametracker it looks like their Defense carried them today, with the Tigers going long stretches w/o a score.

sagegrouse
02-24-2012, 10:00 PM
'don't know all of the Ivy rules, but last year Harvard and Princeton finished the season tied, and played a 1 game playoff for the NCAA birth on a neutral court, I think, at Yale. Princeton won at the buzzer. I don't think the Ivy is going to need a tie-breaker this year, as Harvard look to be the cream of the crop.

Tonight they finally went ahead with under 7 minutes to go, made a bunch of FT's down the stretch, and withstood Princeton by 3 in the end. They host Penn tomorrow I believe.

From the Gametracker it looks like their Defense carried them today, with the Tigers going long stretches w/o a score.

Harvard and Princeton were both recognized as champions in 2011, but Princeton got the automatic bid. -- sage

pfrduke
02-24-2012, 10:18 PM
'don't know all of the Ivy rules, but last year Harvard and Princeton finished the season tied, and played a 1 game playoff for the NCAA birth on a neutral court, I think, at Yale. Princeton won at the buzzer. I don't think the Ivy is going to need a tie-breaker this year, as Harvard look to be the cream of the crop.

Tonight they finally went ahead with under 7 minutes to go, made a bunch of FT's down the stretch, and withstood Princeton by 3 in the end. They host Penn tomorrow I believe.

From the Gametracker it looks like their Defense carried them today, with the Tigers going long stretches w/o a score.

Right, but last year Harvard and Princeton split in the regular season. If Harvard wins tomorrow, each of the following things will be true:

Harvard could finish no worse than 11-3.
No other Ivy League team could finish any better than 11-3.
The only other teams that could finish 11-3 are Yale and Penn.
Harvard will have swept the season series with both Yale and Penn.

In that circumstance, would Harvard have to beat Yale and/or Penn again to get into the tourney, or will the fact that it would have an undefeated head-to-head against any team that would be tied with it atop the standings grant Harvard the bid via tiebreaker?

Of course, all this assumes Harvard wins tomorrow. If not, it gets a little interesting, since then both Harvard and Penn would have only 2 losses (and Yale, with 3, would still be lurking).

devildeac
02-24-2012, 10:29 PM
The Bradley story is much more than just picking a different school. He committed and at the very last moment reneged. Too late to sign the backup prospect - who really wanted to come to Duke.

I'm sure Jim can fill in the details (he's told the story several times).

-jk

Oh, I remember the story from it being told several times here over the last 10+ years. IIRC, Bubas was expecting Bradley to show up on the 1st day of school and he apparently just decided not to come to Duke and go to Princeton at the last possible moment. Did he even let Bubas know or simply not show up? I was really only trying to have a bit of fun with an old, old recruiting story, much as we do now with the many prospects we discuss here annually.

I was also rooting for Tommy today;).

Olympic Fan
02-24-2012, 11:13 PM
Big win for Tommy tonight ... the Crimson can virtually clinch the title with a home win tomorrow vs. Penn. They play two patsies next weekend to close out the regular season.

That said, the Ivy does not use head-to-head as a tiebreaker. If Harvard ties either Yale or Penn in the standings, there will be a playoff... even if Harvard swept the team they'll be tied with.

Back to Bill Bradley ...

It's nothing like Greg Monroe, Patrick Patterson, Harrison Barnes or anybody who picked somebody other that Duke. That's their choice and even though it may hurt at the time, I don't begrudge them the option of making a mistake.

Bradley committed to Duke. Bradley signed with Duke -- taking the last scholarship that Bubas had available in 1961. He corresponded with Duke all summer, talking about his room assignemt, his class schedule and the like. The day he was supposed to arrive at Duke in September his father called and said, "Sorry, my son has decided to go to Princeton."

The kid didn't even have the decency to call himself. He led Daddy do it.

The loss hurt. If Bradley had picked Princeton in the beginning .. fine. Bubas would have used his last scholarship on Fred Hetzel, a 6-8 beast from Washington, D.C. who wanted to come to Duke. He signed with Davidson after Bubas signed Bradley. He became a first-team consensus All-American for Dreisell (while Bradley, of course, became consensus national player of the year at Priceton). Add either one of those to Duke's Final Four teams in 1963 and 1964 (their sophomore and junior seasons) and Bubas wins at least one, probably two national championships. And having one of them them as senior for the nation's highest scoring team in 1965 (when Duke has Marin, Vacendak and sophomore Bob Verga), might have given Duke a third.

I know Bill Bradley was only 18 years old when he screwed Bubas, but he was still a lying piece of &^$% in 1961. You can tell he was going to become a politican -- a guy so shifty that he renegs on his commitment at such a late date can only end up on prison or in Congress.

1 24 90
02-25-2012, 09:02 PM
Harvard just lost at home to Penn 55-54. Bummer.

Olympic Fan
02-26-2012, 12:46 AM
Tough, tough loss for Tommy and the Crimson.

Okay, with just over a week to go in the Ivy, it's

Harvard 10-2
Penn 9-2
Yale 9-3
Princeton 7-4

Harvard has two road games left, but they should be winnable games at Columbia (3-9 in the Ivy, 14-14 overall) and at Cornell (6-6 in the Ivy and 11-15 overall)

Penn has a gimmie left with Brown (2-10, 8-21) at home, then a tough home game with Yale, then the finale at Princeton (which has not lost at home in the league this year).

Still a reasonable chance that Harvard wins outright.

If not, there will be a playoff game on a neutral court. Don't know what they do it three teams tie at 11-3 (which is possible -- Harvard loses one of its last two; Yale beats Penn and both win their other games)

Devilsfan
02-26-2012, 01:06 AM
Hope Harvard and Stanford do amazingly well in the years to come so that Capel doesn't get any ideas of jumping over his fellow coaches with more seniority when it comes to succeeding the "King" in 5-10 years.

Brian913
02-26-2012, 09:53 AM
If not, there will be a playoff game on a neutral court. Don't know what they do it three teams tie at 11-3 (which is possible -- Harvard loses one of its last two; Yale beats Penn and both win their other games)

If three teams are co-champions, there's a playoff with the team with the best head to head record getting the bye. If the head to head records are tied, there's a coin toss to determine the bye.

freshmanjs
02-26-2012, 10:09 AM
Hope Harvard and Stanford do amazingly well in the years to come so that Capel doesn't get any ideas of jumping over his fellow coaches with more seniority when it comes to succeeding the "King" in 5-10 years.

What do you mean by Capel "getting ideas?" I certainly hope that the decision about the successor is not made based on seniority.

Olympic Fan
03-03-2012, 01:21 AM
Wow, close call for Tommy and Harvard Friday night. They had to into overtime to beat a bad Columbia team. They finish up the regular season tonight against a Cornell team that is middle-of-the-road in the Ivy (better than Columbia).

A win and Harvard finishes 12-2 in the Ivy.

The only team that can tie them is Penn, which got to 10-2 by beating Brown Friday night night. The Quakares have a tough one tonight -- at Yale, which is probably the third best team in the Ivy.

They the finish up Tuesday night at Princeton, which is probably the fourth best team in the Ivy.

Everybody else has at least four league losses, so it's down to Harvard and Penn.

If they tie, a one-game playoff at a neutral site for the NCAA bid.

1 24 90
03-06-2012, 08:06 PM
So far so good for Princeton. Up 21-6 over Penn with 5:13 to go in the first half.

As you know, if Princeton wins, Harvard goes to the tourney! Go Tigers!!!

MCFinARL
03-06-2012, 09:17 PM
Princeton up by 9 with 51 seconds to play. Looking good for Harvard to make the NCAAs.

Duvall
03-06-2012, 09:22 PM
Princeton defeats Penn, clinching the Ancient Eight championship for Harvard and sending them to the NCAA Tournament. A huge night for the Cantabrigian cagers.

fisheyes
03-06-2012, 09:26 PM
Congrats to Tommy!

I hope that the bracket gods don't put friends together too soon...

1 24 90
03-06-2012, 09:26 PM
Harvard's first bid since 1946. Now we just need to see if Northwestern can get their first bid ever.

burnspbesq
03-06-2012, 09:35 PM
Princeton defeats Penn, clinching the Ancient Eight championship for Harvard and sending them to the NCAA Tournament. A huge night for the Cantabrigian cagers.

Zac Rosen, who Gottlieb said two weeks ago was a better NBA prospect than Austin, threw up all over himself tonight. Nineteen points on 8-24 from the field (3-7 from three), one assist, seven turnovers.

Fight fiercely, Harvard.

MCFinARL
03-06-2012, 09:45 PM
Zac Rosen, who Gottlieb said two weeks ago was a better NBA prospect than Austin, threw up all over himself tonight. Nineteen points on 8-24 from the field (3-7 from three), one assist, seven turnovers.

Fight fiercely, Harvard.

Awesome Tom Lehrer reference!

CameronBornAndBred
03-06-2012, 09:53 PM
That's awesome! A little worrisome to see the teams they lost to/played close at the end, but hell....they dancing! Congrats to Tommy!

tommy
03-06-2012, 10:05 PM
Also, Johnny and the Cardinal had a real nice win over archrival Cal over the weekend, not only denying the Bears a share of the regular season Pac-12 title, but also getting Stanford its 20th win of the year. Stanford still needs to win the Pac-12 tournament to get to the NCAA's, but still, good win for Johnny and his team, one that I'm sure pleased his boss and the fan base.

moonpie23
03-06-2012, 11:40 PM
http://espn.go.com/boston/ncb/story/_/id/7654773/harvard-crimson-clinch-first-ncaa-tournament-berth-1946

burnspbesq
03-08-2012, 09:22 AM
Nice win for the Cardinal over ASU in the first round of the Pac-12 tournament. Chaisson Randle scored 27 of his 30 in the first half and the Sun Devils never threatened to get back in it.

Stanford plays Cal, whom they beat last weekend, in today's quarterfinals. Another win over the Bears might be enough to put them back in the bubble discussion.

-bdbd
03-09-2012, 12:28 AM
Thursday evening Johnny D. and Stanford lost a tough one to their cross-bay rival, Cal, 77-71. The Cardinal was up by 7 at the break, but started the second half being outscored 13-3 in the first 4 minutes... Ugh! They did climb back in it late, with the game tied at 60 with 5:16 to go, but Cal pulls away late.

Cal is a pretty good team (24-8), but this probably ends JD's NCAA hopes for this year, despite a decent 21-11 record.


On the right coast, ND just pulled out a near-miracle win over South Florida, after being down 5 in the final 90 seconds of regulation. Mike Brey and 3-seed Irish march on to face 7-seed Louisville in the Big East Semi's Fri. night. The Irish are now 23-10 and ranked 23 nationally, looking at maybe a 5-seed (?) in the NCAA's... South Fla may be on the outside of the bubble now...

On ESPN they were just showing their take on last-4 in and last-4 out, and then next-4 out. They had NCSU and Mia in those two "last-4 out" boxes, respectively. 'looks like they both need to win at least one more. Watch out FSU and UVA -- they're motivated!!

:rolleyes: :p

throatybeard
03-09-2012, 01:01 AM
Add either one of those to Duke's Final Four teams in 1963 and 1964 (their sophomore and junior seasons) and Bubas wins at least one, probably two national championships.

This statement reminds me of how people report--as though it were absolute fact--that Duke would have won it all in 2004 if the last bit of the UConn game went differently, or if our bigs had accrued a foul fewer apiece. What everyone ignores is that Georgia Tech made the National Final. And they had beaten us about a month earlier. In Cameron.

Bradley went to Princeton. South Carolina left the ACC. Ronald Curry was a young slimeball in 1998. I was pretty exercised about that in 1998...when I was 21. Jeez, let's give it a rest.

hurleyfor3
03-09-2012, 01:29 AM
This statement reminds me of how people report--as though it were absolute fact--that Duke would have won it all in 2004 if the last bit of the UConn game went differently, or if our bigs had accrued a foul fewer apiece. What everyone ignores is that Georgia Tech made the National Final. And they had beaten us about a month earlier. In Cameron.

Not to mention that UConn had to deal with the same ticky-tack foul calling that we did, which forced Emeka Okafor to sit out much of the game, which allowed us to build that lead in the first place.

Losing to football schools playing football (2000, 2006) bothers me far more.

Geez, why am I discussing a UConn game from eight years ago in this thread. Anyway, the bigger travesty with Bradley was the joke of a commencement speech he gave in 1993. I guess that was our fool us twice, shame on us moment.

snowdenscold
03-09-2012, 12:30 PM
This statement reminds me of how people report--as though it were absolute fact--that Duke would have won it all in 2004 if the last bit of the UConn game went differently, or if our bigs had accrued a foul fewer apiece. What everyone ignores is that Georgia Tech made the National Final. And they had beaten us about a month earlier. In Cameron.


Ehhh, I still feel that that GA Tech team way over-achieved and can't believe they made the final game (and I thought that at the time, not looking back after years of Hewitt mediocrity). IIRC, UConn was crushing them by 20 or 30 at one point in the NC game. They might have beaten us during the season, but I still feel strongly we had a high chance of winning had we played them again. Not 100%, but high.

-bdbd
03-09-2012, 02:38 PM
This statement reminds me of how people report--as though it were absolute fact--that Duke would have won it all in 2004 if the last bit of the UConn game went differently, or if our bigs had accrued a foul fewer apiece. What everyone ignores is that Georgia Tech made the National Final. And they had beaten us about a month earlier. In Cameron.

Bradley went to Princeton. South Carolina left the ACC. Ronald Curry was a young slimeball in 1998. I was pretty exercised about that in 1998...when I was 21. Jeez, let's give it a rest.

'agree with your main point Throaty -- it's kinda like the Terpers who complain that a single call in the last 20 seconds "cost us the game" (while ignoring the preceding 100 calls during the previous 39:40, many of which were close and went the other way). But in the case of 2004, I was actually there in San Antonio. I remember a LOT of the discussion prior to that FF being that, in effect, the Duke-vs.-U-con game was for the championship, and whoever won the other game (GT vs OKSU) should get steamrolled by either Duke or U-con. That doesn't make it a feit accompli, but GT was something like a 10 point underdog to U-con in the finals, and would have been similar vs Duke. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/scores104/104094/20040403NCAABDUKE------0.htm Duke gave U-con a MUCH better game, going down to a final possession, while GT unfortunately did get steamrolled by U-con. (Yes, the final score looks closer, but only b/c GT hit a bunch of buckets late - I think they made a bunch of 3's - in the last 8 minutes, but it really wasn't as the 9 point margin appears. They were down 20 with about 10 minutes to go. http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=244000063 ) But yeah, Okafor actually did sit out much of the latter stages of the first half with 2 fouls, as Duke expanded its lead, but not enough. I remember sitting there thinking "We need to take advantage of this opportunity more while he's out. Okafor had a tremendous second half, and we really didn't have an answer, but I think he actually didn't sit out much in the second half... and he DID commit the (decisive) foul in a 1-point game that wasn't called in the lane in the waning seconds....damnit! Must...let....go....arrrgh!!

Bluedog
03-09-2012, 02:43 PM
I remember a LOT of the discussion prior to that FF being that, in effect, the Duke-vs.-U-con game was for the championship, and whoever won the other game should get steamrolled by either Duke or U-con. That doesn't make it a feit accompli, but GT was something like a 10 point underdog to U-con in the finals, and would have been similar vs Duke.

Right, I recall that too and people said the same thing about Duke vs. WV being the de facto national championship game in 2010 and whoever won that should be in the driver's set for the title. But then Butler gave us a much tougher game than WV, so it's always difficult to predict. Still, that 2004 game hurts to think about...:mad:

JG Nothing
03-09-2012, 07:23 PM
'agree with your main point Throaty -- it's kinda like the Terpers who complain that a single call in the last 20 seconds "cost us the game" (while ignoring the preceding 100 calls during the previous 39:40, many of which were close and went the other way). But in the case of 2004, I was actually there in San Antonio. I remember a LOT of the discussion prior to that FF being that, in effect, the Duke-vs.-U-con game was for the championship, and whoever won the other game (GT vs OKSU) should get steamrolled by either Duke or U-con. That doesn't make it a feit accompli, but GT was something like a 10 point underdog to U-con in the finals, and would have been similar vs Duke. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/scores104/104094/20040403NCAABDUKE------0.htm Duke gave U-con a MUCH better game, going down to a final possession, while GT unfortunately did get steamrolled by U-con. (Yes, the final score looks closer, but only b/c GT hit a bunch of buckets late - I think they made a bunch of 3's - in the last 8 minutes, but it really wasn't as the 9 point margin appears. They were down 20 with about 10 minutes to go. http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=244000063 ) But yeah, Okafor actually did sit out much of the latter stages of the first half with 2 fouls, as Duke expanded its lead, but not enough. I remember sitting there thinking "We need to take advantage of this opportunity more while he's out. Okafor had a tremendous second half, and we really didn't have an answer, but I think he actually didn't sit out much in the second half... and he DID commit the (decisive) foul in a 1-point game that wasn't called in the lane in the waning seconds....damnit! Must...let....go....arrrgh!!

For fun, I looked up the boxscore and play-by-play of the game. You are right about Okafor sitting out most of the first half with two fouls. He actually got his second foul four minutes into the game and sat out the remaining 16 minutes of the first half. Two things struck me about the game that I had forgotten. First, the largest lead we had in the first half was only nine points and we only had a seven point lead at the half (I thought it was more in both cases). Second, Okafor only had three fouls for the game and Boone only had two (I thought they both had more).

Even with Ucon at full strength, we still had the lead the entire second half except for the last 25 seconds (we also had an eight point lead with 2:50 left in the game). Here's a what-if that I never see mentioned: if Thompson doesn't transfer at mid-season, I think we win the game.

turnandburn55
03-10-2012, 10:14 AM
For fun, I looked up the boxscore and play-by-play of the game. You are right about Okafor sitting out most of the first half with two fouls. He actually got his second foul four minutes into the game and sat out the remaining 16 minutes of the first half. Two things struck me about the game that I had forgotten. First, the largest lead we had in the first half was only nine points and we only had a seven point lead at the half (I thought it was more in both cases). Second, Okafor only had three fouls for the game and Boone only had two (I thought they both had more).

Even with Ucon at full strength, we still had the lead the entire second half except for the last 25 seconds (we also had an eight point lead with 2:50 left in the game). Here's a what-if that I never see mentioned: if Thompson doesn't transfer at mid-season, I think we win the game.

I watched the last three minutes for the first time since it happened. I had been under the impression that all of our big men had fouled out, which allowed Okafor to run wild. As it turns out, Shelden and Shav fouled out, which definitely hurt, but Nick Horvath was in the game getting abused by Okafor for the crucial run, and didn't foul out until after the game had gotten away from us. I doubt Michael Thompson makes any difference, with that in mind.

What I had also forgotten was how Luol Deng just killed us by jacking up random three-pointers at the end. Ben Gordon and Ryan Anderson both had four fouls-- we should've been attacking the basket on every possession. Yes, Redick was fouled, but I think Deng/Duhon get that call far more frequently than JJ does (at least the sophomore version).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edylGVZXIQc

If anyone's interested...

JG Nothing
03-10-2012, 08:47 PM
I watched the last three minutes for the first time since it happened. I had been under the impression that all of our big men had fouled out, which allowed Okafor to run wild. As it turns out, Shelden and Shav fouled out, which definitely hurt, but Nick Horvath was in the game getting abused by Okafor for the crucial run, and didn't foul out until after the game had gotten away from us. I doubt Michael Thompson makes any difference, with that in mind.

What I had also forgotten was how Luol Deng just killed us by jacking up random three-pointers at the end. Ben Gordon and Ryan Anderson both had four fouls-- we should've been attacking the basket on every possession. Yes, Redick was fouled, but I think Deng/Duhon get that call far more frequently than JJ does (at least the sophomore version).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edylGVZXIQc

If anyone's interested...

Can't watch it again. Too painful.

hurleyfor3
03-11-2012, 11:42 PM
Stanford snags a coveted Nit bid.

http://i.turner.ncaa.com/dr/ncaa/ncaa/release/sites/default/files/external/gametool/brackets/2012NITBracket.pdf

burnspbesq
03-22-2012, 12:49 AM
The Cardinal advanced to the semifinals of the NIT with a 28-point win over Nevada tonight. They will play UMass next Tuesday.

pfrduke
03-22-2012, 01:22 AM
The Cardinal advanced to the semifinals of the NIT with a 28-point win over Nevada tonight. They will play UMass next Tuesday.

The Pac-12 is dominating the lesser tournaments. Stanford and Washington in the NIT final four, Washington State and Oregon State in the CBI final four (with Washington State on to the finals).

Bob Green
03-27-2012, 09:26 PM
Congratulations to Johnny Dawkins as his Stanford team has advanced to the NIT Championship Game by defeating UMass 74-64 in the first semi-final. Minnesota and Washington are up next. The PAC 12 is looking at a possible all conference final if Washington can take care of business. Yeah, it's the NIT, but it's still an accomplishment.

dukelifer
03-27-2012, 09:37 PM
Congratulations to Johnny Dawkins as his Stanford team has advanced to the NIT Championship Game by defeating UMass 74-64 in the first semi-final. Minnesota and Washington are up next. The PAC 12 is looking at a possible all conference final if Washington can take care of business. Yeah, it's the NIT, but it's still an accomplishment.

Winning the NIT is no easy feat- just ask UNC ;)

devildeac
03-27-2012, 11:05 PM
Winning the NIT is no easy feat- just ask UNC ;)

Third place ban-ner: clap, clap, clap/clap/clap:rolleyes:.

Billy Dat
03-29-2012, 02:37 PM
Johnny brought Raven Ray Lewis in to fire up his squad before one of the recent NIT games ...tremendous! Love how pumped Johnny is, and how surprised and pumped the team is when Lewis strolls in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07fhOVQ9wEA