Cumulative Plus/Minus - 2011-2012

[Troublemaker]

Trying to answer the call from prfduke, who is swamped with work right now.

Upcoming: will post a box for each game Duke has played.

Have plans to track lineups but probably can't get around to that until next week.

Sorry about the small font size. Using the HTML code option is, for now, the only way I can get it to align properly.


Cumulative Plus/Minus (thru Michigan)


+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Player | Avg Min | Duke | Opp | +/- | Off | Net |
+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Miles Plumlee | 16:46 | 196 | 140 | 56 | 21 | 35 |
| Andre Dawkins | 27:56 | 334 | 279 | 55 | 22 | 33 |
| Austin Rivers | 30:52 | 382 | 327 | 55 | 22 | 33 |
| Seth Curry | 32:30 | 407 | 353 | 54 | 23 | 31 |
| Ryan Kelly | 27:08 | 347 | 298 | 49 | 28 | 21 |
| Mason Plumlee | 29:31 | 355 | 307 | 48 | 29 | 19 |
| Quinn Cook | 08:41 | 108 | 66 | 42 | 35 | 7 |
| Tyler Thornton | 17:32 | 220 | 188 | 32 | 45 | -13 |
| Josh Hairston | 06:34 | 57 | 54 | 3 | 73 | -70 |
| Todd Zafirovski | 03:04 | 3 | 4 | -1 | 42 | -43 |
| Michael Gbinije | 06:09 | 31 | 39 | -8 | 63 | -71 |
+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+



Per 40 Plus/Minus


+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Player | Avg Min | Duke | Opp | +/- | Off | Net |
+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Quinn Cook | 40:00 | 83 | 51 | 32 | 27 | 5 |
| Miles Plumlee | 40:00 | 78 | 56 | 22 | 8 | 14 |
| Andre Dawkins | 40:00 | 80 | 67 | 13 | 5 | 8 |
| Tyler Thornton | 40:00 | 84 | 71 | 12 | 17 | -5 |
| Ryan Kelly | 40:00 | 85 | 73 | 12 | 7 | 5 |
| Austin Rivers | 40:00 | 83 | 71 | 12 | 5 | 7 |
| Mason Plumlee | 40:00 | 80 | 69 | 11 | 7 | 4 |
| Seth Curry | 40:00 | 83 | 72 | 11 | 5 | 6 |
| Josh Hairston | 40:00 | 69 | 66 | 4 | 89 | -85 |
| Todd Zafirovski | 40:00 | 39 | 52 | -13 | 548 | -561 |
| Michael Gbinije | 40:00 | 67 | 84 | -17 | 136 | -154 |
+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+

[Troublemaker]

All Games Completed Thru Michigan



+----------+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Opponent | Player | Min:Sec | Duke | Opp | +/- | Off | Net |
+----------+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Belmont | Ryan Kelly | 27:55 | 61 | 54 | 7 | -6 | 13 |
| Belmont | Quinn Cook | 08:16 | 16 | 11 | 5 | -4 | 9 |
| Belmont | Tyler Thornton | 23:54 | 49 | 46 | 3 | -2 | 5 |
| Belmont | Miles Plumlee | 16:57 | 25 | 25 | 0 | 1 | -1 |
| Belmont | Austin Rivers | 37:39 | 72 | 72 | 0 | 1 | -1 |
| Belmont | Mason Plumlee | 35:01 | 68 | 70 | -2 | 3 | -5 |
| Belmont | Michael Gbinije | 01:20 | 3 | 5 | -2 | 3 | -5 |
| Belmont | Seth Curry | 28:20 | 57 | 59 | -2 | 3 | -5 |
| Belmont | Andre Dawkins | 20:38 | 34 | 38 | -4 | 5 | -9 |
+----------+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+


+--------------+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Opponent | Player | Min:Sec | Duke | Opp | +/- | Off | Net |
+--------------+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Presbyterian | Andre Dawkins | 21:14 | 59 | 22 | 37 | 4 | 33 |
| Presbyterian | Austin Rivers | 21:09 | 59 | 24 | 35 | 6 | 29 |
| Presbyterian | Miles Plumlee | 23:06 | 62 | 30 | 32 | 9 | 23 |
| Presbyterian | Seth Curry | 23:38 | 59 | 32 | 27 | 14 | 13 |
| Presbyterian | Mason Plumlee | 19:40 | 44 | 22 | 22 | 19 | 3 |
| Presbyterian | Ryan Kelly | 18:11 | 47 | 28 | 19 | 22 | -3 |
| Presbyterian | Quinn Cook | 18:33 | 44 | 26 | 18 | 23 | -5 |
| Presbyterian | Josh Hairston | 15:59 | 36 | 26 | 10 | 31 | -21 |
| Presbyterian | Tyler Thornton | 20:36 | 41 | 35 | 6 | 35 | -29 |
| Presbyterian | Michael Gbinije | 14:50 | 26 | 26 | 0 | 41 | -41 |
| Presbyterian | Todd Zafirovski | 03:04 | 3 | 4 | -1 | 42 | -43 |
+--------------+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+


+-------------+----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Opponent | Player | Min:Sec | Duke | Opp | +/- | Off | Net |
+-------------+----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Michigan St | Tyler Thornton | 18:13 | 44 | 28 | 16 | -11 | 27 |
| Michigan St | Mason Plumlee | 31:13 | 66 | 54 | 12 | -7 | 19 |
| Michigan St | Ryan Kelly | 29:24 | 61 | 51 | 10 | -5 | 15 |
| Michigan St | Seth Curry | 38:04 | 74 | 69 | 5 | 0 | 5 |
| Michigan St | Andre Dawkins | 38:14 | 67 | 66 | 1 | 4 | -3 |
| Michigan St | Quinn Cook | 01:56 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5 | -5 |
| Michigan St | Miles Plumlee | 14:08 | 17 | 23 | -6 | 11 | -17 |
| Michigan St | Josh Hairston | 05:15 | 4 | 10 | -6 | 11 | -17 |
| Michigan St | Austin Rivers | 23:33 | 37 | 44 | -7 | 12 | -19 |
+-------------+----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+


+----------+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Opponent | Player | Min:Sec | Duke | Opp | +/- | Off | Net |
+----------+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Davidson | Austin Rivers | 36:10 | 77 | 61 | 16 | -3 | 19 |
| Davidson | Quinn Cook | 11:22 | 30 | 15 | 15 | -2 | 17 |
| Davidson | Miles Plumlee | 17:29 | 39 | 25 | 14 | -1 | 15 |
| Davidson | Tyler Thornton | 16:35 | 34 | 26 | 8 | 5 | 3 |
| Davidson | Andre Dawkins | 20:17 | 38 | 32 | 6 | 7 | -1 |
| Davidson | Mason Plumlee | 28:58 | 57 | 52 | 5 | 8 | -3 |
| Davidson | Seth Curry | 34:16 | 69 | 65 | 4 | 9 | -5 |
| Davidson | Josh Hairston | 08:11 | 15 | 12 | 3 | 10 | -7 |
| Davidson | Ryan Kelly | 24:24 | 49 | 49 | 0 | 13 | -13 |
| Davidson | Michael Gbinije | 02:18 | 2 | 8 | -6 | 19 | -25 |
+----------+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+


+-----------+----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Opponent | Player | Min:Sec | Duke | Opp | +/- | Off | Net |
+-----------+----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Tennessee | Andre Dawkins | 31:53 | 63 | 53 | 10 | 0 | 10 |
| Tennessee | Miles Plumlee | 16:38 | 31 | 21 | 10 | 0 | 10 |
| Tennessee | Seth Curry | 36:19 | 73 | 63 | 10 | 0 | 10 |
| Tennessee | Austin Rivers | 30:40 | 62 | 55 | 7 | 3 | 4 |
| Tennessee | Ryan Kelly | 27:23 | 55 | 49 | 6 | 4 | 2 |
| Tennessee | Mason Plumlee | 32:46 | 63 | 58 | 5 | 5 | 0 |
| Tennessee | Tyler Thornton | 14:00 | 25 | 22 | 3 | 7 | -4 |
| Tennessee | Quinn Cook | 07:56 | 11 | 10 | 1 | 9 | -8 |
| Tennessee | Josh Hairston | 02:25 | 2 | 4 | -2 | 12 | -14 |
+-----------+----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+


+----------+----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Opponent | Player | Min:Sec | Duke | Opp | +/- | Off | Net |
+----------+----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Michigan | Seth Curry | 34:23 | 75 | 65 | 10 | -3 | 13 |
| Michigan | Ryan Kelly | 35:33 | 74 | 67 | 7 | 0 | 7 |
| Michigan | Miles Plumlee | 12:18 | 22 | 16 | 6 | 1 | 5 |
| Michigan | Mason Plumlee | 29:30 | 57 | 51 | 6 | 1 | 5 |
| Michigan | Andre Dawkins | 35:22 | 73 | 68 | 5 | 2 | 3 |
| Michigan | Austin Rivers | 35:58 | 75 | 71 | 4 | 3 | 1 |
| Michigan | Quinn Cook | 04:02 | 7 | 4 | 3 | 4 | -1 |
| Michigan | Josh Hairston | 00:59 | 0 | 2 | -2 | 9 | -11 |
| Michigan | Tyler Thornton | 11:55 | 27 | 31 | -4 | 11 | -15 |
+----------+----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+

[-jk]

There's a new table code in the board software. Works better than html code.

-jk

[Troublemaker]

Thanks for the tip, -jk-. I'll look into it.

Kansas Box


+----------+----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Opponent | Player | Min:Sec | Duke | Opp | +/- | Off | Net |
+----------+----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Kansas | Mason Plumlee | 36:36 | 66 | 50 | 16 | -9 | 25 |
| Kansas | Tyler Thornton | 21:01 | 37 | 25 | 12 | -5 | 17 |
| Kansas | Seth Curry | 35:25 | 62 | 54 | 8 | -1 | 9 |
| Kansas | Andre Dawkins | 34:08 | 60 | 56 | 4 | 3 | 1 |
| Kansas | Ryan Kelly | 35:11 | 59 | 55 | 4 | 3 | 1 |
| Kansas | Quinn Cook | 01:47 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 5 | -3 |
| Kansas | Austin Rivers | 27:48 | 43 | 48 | -5 | 12 | -17 |
| Kansas | Miles Plumlee | 08:04 | 11 | 17 | -6 | 13 | -19 |
+----------+----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+

Cumulative Plus/Minus (thru Kansas)


+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Player | Avg Min | Duke | Opp | +/- | Off | Net |
+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Andre Dawkins | 28:49 | 398 | 331 | 67 | 17 | 50 |
| Miles Plumlee | 15:31 | 214 | 150 | 64 | 20 | 44 |
| Austin Rivers | 30:25 | 431 | 369 | 62 | 22 | 40 |
| Seth Curry | 32:55 | 469 | 407 | 62 | 22 | 40 |
| Mason Plumlee | 30:32 | 413 | 365 | 48 | 36 | 12 |
| Quinn Cook | 07:42 | 110 | 66 | 44 | 40 | 4 |
| Ryan Kelly | 28:17 | 401 | 358 | 43 | 41 | 2 |
| Tyler Thornton | 18:02 | 247 | 223 | 24 | 60 | -36 |
| Josh Hairston | 06:34 | 63 | 48 | 15 | 61 | -46 |
| Todd Zafirovski | 03:04 | 3 | 4 | -1 | 42 | -43 |
| Michael Gbinije | 06:09 | 31 | 39 | -8 | 63 | -71 |
+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+

Per 40 Plus/Minus (through Kansas)


+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Player | Avg Min | Duke | Opp | +/- | Off | Net |
+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+
| Quinn Cook | 40:00 | 82 | 49 | 33 | 30 | 3 |
| Miles Plumlee | 40:00 | 79 | 55 | 24 | 7 | 16 |
| Josh Hairston | 40:00 | 77 | 59 | 18 | 74 | -56 |
| Andre Dawkins | 40:00 | 79 | 66 | 13 | 3 | 10 |
| Austin Rivers | 40:00 | 81 | 69 | 12 | 4 | 8 |
| Seth Curry | 40:00 | 81 | 71 | 11 | 4 | 7 |
| Ryan Kelly | 40:00 | 81 | 72 | 9 | 8 | 0 |
| Mason Plumlee | 40:00 | 77 | 68 | 9 | 7 | 2 |
| Tyler Thornton | 40:00 | 78 | 71 | 8 | 19 | -11 |
| Todd Zafirovski | 40:00 | 39 | 52 | -13 | 548 | -561 |
| Michael Gbinije | 40:00 | 67 | 84 | -17 | 136 | -154 |
+-----------------+---------+------+------+------+------+------+


Note: the Michigan St box from my second post above is wrong. Will correct at a later time. All the other game boxes and the cumulative data in this post should be correct.

Happy Thanksgiving!!! And what a win tonight!!!

[Ian]

The numbers on Miles is wrong. After Michigan he had cumulative of +56, then he had a -6 for the Kansas game, which means his cumulative should be +50, yet his cumulative became +64.

[Troublemaker]

The numbers on Miles is wrong. After Michigan he had cumulative of +56, then he had a -6 for the Kansas game, which means his cumulative should be +50, yet his cumulative became +64.

Sorry, should have been more clear. The cumulative data through Kansas is correct but the cumulative data in the top post includes the bad Michigan St data. Currently don't have permissions to edit my previous posts and correct the errors.

[sagegrouse]

Sorry, should have been more clear. The cumulative data through Kansas is correct but the cumulative data in the top post includes the bad Michigan St data. Currently don't have permissions to edit my previous posts and correct the errors.

What are "OFF" and "NET?"-- sage

[Troublemaker]

What are "OFF" and "NET?"-- sage

Let's take Mason against Kansas as an example. Duke was +16 when Mason was ON the court and -9 when Mason was OFF the court, giving him a NET of +25.

Essentially, a player's "+/-" column added to his "OFF" column should equal Duke's winning margin.

[Bob Green]

Let's take Mason against Kansas as an example. Duke was +16 when Mason was ON the court and -9 when Mason was OFF the court, giving him a NET of +25.

Essentially, a player's "+/-" column added to his "OFF" column should equal Duke's winning margin.

So shouldn't his NET be 7? Sixteen plus negative nine equals seven, which was Duke's winning margin.

[Ian]

No, the Net is a way to measure one player's +/- against the rest of his team's. If you play a scrub team and put up a +10, but when you're out of the game your team put up a +40, that actually means you had a bad game, so you're net is -30.

But if you play a good team and you put up a +10, but when you're out your team was -7, that meant you had a great game, a +17. Under +/- both games you had a +10 and it looks like you played equally well in both. The Net adjusts for that.

[Troublemaker]

So shouldn't his NET be 7? Sixteen plus negative nine equals seven, which was Duke's winning margin.

Sorry, I was unclear again. The NET is the difference between "+/-" and "OFF"

As an aside, the sum of "+/-" and "OFF" is Duke's winning margin.



No, the Net is a way to measure one player's +/- against the rest of his team's. If you play a scrub team and put up a +10, but when you're out of the game your team put up a +40, that actually means you had a bad game, so you're net is -30.

But if you play a good team and you put up a +10, but when you're out your team was -7, that meant you had a great game, a +17. Under +/- both games you had a +10 and it looks like you played equally well in both. The Net adjusts for that.

Thanks. I would also add the standard caveat that single game plus/minus stats can be extremely misleading and you shouldn't think "bad game" or "good game" necessarily. Although for Kansas, the plus/minus stats align well with my subjective observations.

[sagegrouse]

Sorry, I was unclear again. The NET is the difference between "+/-" and "OFF"

As an aside, the sum of "+/-" and "OFF" is Duke's winning margin.

"Well," ... said Ronald Reagan, "If a player on a good team, which wins most of its games by ten points or more, plays only 5-10 minutes a game, he's going to look like a really bad player, because his NET would be a large negative number, no matter how well or poorly he played. Well, ... sounds like 'blaming the victim' to me."

sagegrouse

[Troublemaker]

"Well," ... said Ronald Reagan, "If a player on a good team, which wins most of its games by ten points or more, plays only 5-10 minutes a game, he's going to look like a really bad player, because his NET would be a large negative number, no matter how well or poorly he played. Well, ... sounds like 'blaming the victim' to me."

sagegrouse

Absolutely. NET is basically useless for players towards the end of the rotation.

Plus/minus is rife with all sorts of caveats like that.

For example, right now the "Per 40" stats are extremely misleading. Duke has played 6 tough games and 1 easy game (Presbyterian). A great way to rack up good "Per 40" stats or rate stats in general is to have played good minutes against Presbyterian and far fewer minutes against the tough teams. So that is an example where the bench players can possibly benefit misleadingly as opposed to NET where they look bad misleadingly.