This Week in the ACC 11/21-11/27

[pfrduke]

It wasn't the bloodbath that this week last season was, but it wasn't pretty either. Maryland, Georgia Tech, and Boston College all amply displayed why they are likely to be down toward the bottom of the conference this season, and Clemson showed some cracks by dropping a home loss to Charleston (random scheduling aside - Clemson does not play any team from outside of the Carolinas until Iowa in the ACC/B1G challenge). Luckily, every week in the fall brings new opportunities for the conference to assert itself, starting right at the top of the week.

Monday puts four squads in action, with the team playing further west (Duke) getting under way first. Two other teams finish up their tournament play in the Virgin Islands and the far less scenic Meadowlands (here's a prediction - NCSU/Texas will be high scoring). And Boston College hosts another in-state rival, looking for a better result than last week's road loss to Holy Cross.

[6]Duke v. [89]Tennessee in Maui
[56]Virginia v. [129]Drake in the USVI
[63]NC State v. [31]Texas in New Jersey
[206]Boston College hosts [143]Massachusetts


Tuesday has a few relative cupcake matchups, and what should be a tough second-round game for Duke regardless of a win or loss on Monday.

[6]Duke v. [18]Memphis/[49]Michigan in Maui (note that the polls like Memphis and Michigan a lot more than Pomeroy)
[5]North Carolina hosts [202]Tennessee State
[33]Miami hosts [287]Florida Gulf Coast
[37]Clemson hosts [161]Coastal Carolina

Wednesday features the Devils against on one of basketball's most storied programs (a blanket statement that's easy to make when Kansas, UCLA, and Georgetown are on the other side of the bracket). Virginia Tech gets its first chance for a statement win against a future conference rival (and a team that's had no game closer than 24 thus far this season). Georgia Tech hosts Siena in a rematch that makes slightly less sense now that Coach Hewitt is departed.

[6]Duke v. [10]Kansas/[29]Georgetown/[100]UCLA/Chaminade in Maui
[40]Virginia Tech v. [4]Syracuse in Madison Square Garden
[91]Georgia Tech hosts [175]Siena in Duluth, Ga.

Thursday starts a whole new slate of pre-season tournaments for the ACC, as action kicks off in the Bahamas, Orlando, and Anaheim. FSU should have an easier go of it than either Wake or BC, who probably aren't going to be the ACC's standard bearers in the early going. Then again, if Norfolk State can make the finals of a pre-season tournament....

[17]Florida State v. [143]Massachusetts in Nassau
[206]Boston College v. [30]St. Louis in Anaheim
[158]Wake Forest v. [65]Dayton in Orlando

Friday is chock full of ACC play, with everyone except Duke and Georgia Tech lacing up the sneakers. Plenty of basketball to go along with your turkey leftovers.

[33]Miami at [79]Mississippi
[63]NC State hosts [212]Elon
[37]Clemson hosts [246]Furman
[5]North Carolina v. [113]South Carolina in Las Vegas
[56]Virgnia v. [174]Wisconsin-Green Bay
[82]Maryland hosts [287]Florida Gulf Coast
[40]Virginia Tech v. [38]Oklahoma State/[48]Stanford in Madison Square Garden
[17]Florida State v. [52]Harvard/[190]Utah in Nassau
[206]Boston College v. [45]Villanova/[226]UC-Riverside in Anaheim
[158]Wake Forest v. [94]Fairfield/[112]Arizona State in Orlando

Saturday brings tournament action nearly to a close for the ACC (Clemson will play in the Diamond Head Classic around Christmas time for the final tourney play). Best matchup could be in Nassau if the brackets hold, as FSU would take on the defending champions in a chance for a great statement win.

[5]North Carolina v. [14]UNLV/[140]USC in Las Vegas
[17]Florida State in Nassau
[206]Boston College in Anaheim
[158]Wake Forest in Orlando

Sunday is quiet as the league gets geared up for the first 12-on-12 ACC/B1G Ten challenge, with only the Hokies in action.

[40]Virginia Tech hosts [81]St. Bonaventure

ACC Non-Conference Record: 34-8
ACC Record v. BCS: 4-3
America East: 1-0
Atlantic-10: 0-1
A-Sun: 5-0
Big East: 1-0
Big South: 5-0
B1G Ten: 2-0
Colonial: 3-0
CUSA: 1-0
Ivy: 1-0
MAAC: 1-1
MEAC: 4-0
Mountain West: 0-1
Northeast: 1-0
OVC: 2-0
Pac-12: 1-0
Patriot: 0-1
SEC: 0-3
Southern: 3-1
SWAC: 1-0
Sun Belt: 2-0

[pfrduke]

Don't look now (knock on wood), but NC State has put on a heck of a comeback against Texas. The Longhorns were up 65-47, and it's now a 75-67 NC State lead. Yes, you're reading that correctly, a 28-2 run. Even if they end up losing, that's an amazing run.

[pfrduke]

State wins! Richard Howell almost gave the game away with an incredibly stupid decision to swat a three-point shot away from the basket right as time expired, but the officials correctly (I think - it was tough to tell) concluded that it had no shot at going in and so didn't call goal tending. But really, really stupid decision.

[loldevilz]

Wow great win for State. Its amazing the difference good coaching can make. The way State is playing it wouldn't surprise me if they make the tournament this year.

[CDu]

State wins! Richard Howell almost gave the game away with an incredibly stupid decision to swat a three-point shot away from the basket right as time expired, but the officials correctly (I think - it was tough to tell) concluded that it had no shot at going in and so didn't call goal tending. But really, really stupid decision.

Good win for State, although it's probably a better win in name than in actual quality. Texas only beat URI by 10 and lost to Oregon State in their last game. It's not (at least not yet) the Longhorns team we've seen in recent years.

Still - that's a nice win for the Pack, following a close loss to Vandy. They do look better this year.

[Wander]

Boston College is horrible this year. Barely win against New Hampshire, routed by Holy Cross and now UMass. I nominate these guys for worst ACC team of all time. The conference scores are going to be ugly.

[loran16]

BC lost by 36. To UMass. At Home. Yeesh.

[pfrduke]

Boston College is horrible this year. Barely win against New Hampshire, routed by Holy Cross and now UMass. I nominate these guys for worst ACC team of all time. The conference scores are going to be ugly.

Amazingly, they've already had a worse loss than anything Wake did last season - UMASS won by 36 at BC. Wake's worst loss was by 35, but that was on the road; at home, the worst loss was by 26 (interestingly, both of those games were to Georgia Tech - the Jackets owned Wake last year).

[CDu]

Boston College is horrible this year. Barely win against New Hampshire, routed by Holy Cross and now UMass. I nominate these guys for worst ACC team of all time. The conference scores are going to be ugly.

That really is awful. The bottom of the ACC is going to be really really bad. Hopefully that means a few more ACC teams make it into the tournament this year after beefing up on the conference filler. Probably won't work out that way somehow.

[loran16]

Boston College is now ranked 251 in Pomeroy. Doesn't necessarily mean a huge amount here - but that's the same ranking Wake ended with last year. Uhhh ugh.

[Wander]

Coastal Carolina now has wins over LSU and Clemson. NCAA tournament upset in their future?

[Olympic Fan]

Coastal Carolina now has wins over LSU and Clemson. NCAA tournament upset in their future?

And Clemson now has homecourt losses to College of Charleston and Coastal Carolina.

I watched the second half of tonight's game. The Tigers simply don't have much firepower. They had a four-point lead with 90 seconds left, but allowed CC to score the game's last five points. The winning bucket came on a third attempt after two misses and two offensive rebounds.

It's a small sample and I'm not going to read too much into it, but if NC State has made itself look like an upper-middle team in the ACC this year, Clemson looks like a bottom feeder. Maybe not down as far as BC or Wake Forest, but somewhere anout with Maryland and Georgia Tech ... at least the Terps have some hope -- when they get a healthy Howard and an eligible Len, they might be better (although Turgeon sounds pretty disgusted with his players so far, especially Stoglin).

BTW, the ACC is now 40-10 after tonight's 3-1 record ... that's 7-3 against BCS opponents (although Duke is 3-0 and UNC 1-0 in such games).

[Bob Green]

And Clemson now has homecourt losses to College of Charleston and Coastal Carolina.

Bobby Cremins and Cliff Ellis, right? I'm going to throw this out there without confirming via Google, but I'm pretty confident former ACC head coaches Cremins and Ellis are still coaching at those two schools.

[-jk]

The ACC went 1-2 today: FSU beat Mass, but Dayton took Wake and St Louis handled BC.

It's going to be a long year for the bottom of the conference.

-jk

[Newton_14]

The ACC went 1-2 today: FSU beat Mass, but Dayton took Wake and St Louis handled BC.

It's going to be a long year for the bottom of the conference.

-jk

BC is gawd-awful. Likely the worst ACC team since Ga Tech the very first year they were in the ACC and had Brooke Steppe and a bunch of stiffs. I am trying to remember other ACC teams that were worse than this BC team but nothing is jumping out at me.

Any other candidates?

[-jk]

BC is gawd-awful. Likely the worst ACC team since Ga Tech the very first year they were in the ACC and had Brooke Steppe and a bunch of stiffs. I am trying to remember other ACC teams that were worse than this BC team but nothing is jumping out at me.

Any other candidates?

Wake last year?

-jk

[Duvall]

Wake last year?

-jk

Worse. Last year's Wake team lost close games to low-major teams early in the season; this BC team is getting blown out with regularity.

[Bob Green]

I am trying to remember other ACC teams that were worse than this BC team but nothing is jumping out at me.

Any other candidates?

The 8-20 North Carolina Tar Heels in 2002 were pretty much gawd awful. This is a team which had out-of-conference losses to Hampton, Davidson, College of Charleston and Ohio. No matter how you slice it, they sucked!

[Olympic Fan]

Wake last year is the standard -- by every measure, they were the worst ACC team since RPIs were calculated -- by almost 100 places. They were the first ACC team to lose 15 games. Their 24 overall losses were the most overall in ACC history. They weren't losing close games to nothing teams -- they lost (at home) by 10 to Stetson. By 9 at home to Elon. By 12 to UNC Wilmington. ... okay, by two at home to Presbyterian. Only one of their 15 ACC losses was by less than double figures.

That's said, I suspect this Boston College team is worse. I was able to watch BC lose to St. Louis a couple of hours before watching Wake lose a heatbreaker to Dayton. There's no doubt in my mind that Wake is 10-15 points better than the Eagles at the moment. They have at last a couple of decent ACC players in Harris and McKie. Their point guard/center (Chennalt/Derosiers) are not that much better than the BC equivilent (Clifford/Daniels) -- but they are a year older and that makes a huge difference.

Interesting that FSU just beat UMass by 20 ... the same UMss team that earlier in the week beat BC by 36 in Chestnut Hill.

Don't get me wrong - I don't think Wake is very good ... a little better than last year.

But BC appears to be as weak as any ACC team I've ever seen -- and that includes Wake last year and Georgia Tech in 1981 (the year they went 0-14 and 4-23). At least those Jackets had Steppe, who was a better player than anybody the Eagles have this year.

Georgia Tech, Maryland and Clemson have their problems too. The bottom of the ACC was as weak last year as at any time since the 1950s, but it's going to be even weaker this year.

PS Two ex-Dukies are really off to good starts. Tommy Amaker just routed Utah 75-47 to go 4-0 at Harvard ... Johnny Dawkins ripped Oklahoma State Wednesday in the preseason NIT semifinals to go 5-0 at Stanford. Johnny D gets a shot at Syracuse in the Garden Friday night at 5 p.m. Love to see his Cardinal pull it off.

[nocilla]

I know it seems even more weak after looking at this year's Maui field, but the Las Vegas Invitational seems really weak.

UNC, UNLV, USC, South Carolina, Morgan State, Cal Poly, Mississippi Valley and Tennessee State.

UNC may get another Helms trophy for beating all these cupckes. :)

[Duvall]

Wake last year is the standard -- by every measure, they were the worst ACC team since RPIs were calculated -- by almost 100 places. They were the first ACC team to lose 15 games. Their 24 overall losses were the most overall in ACC history. They weren't losing close games to nothing teams -- they lost (at home) by 10 to Stetson. By 9 at home to Elon. By 12 to UNC Wilmington. ... okay, by two at home to Presbyterian. Only one of their 15 ACC losses was by less than double figures.

In only four games, this BC team already has a 22-point loss to Holy Cross as well as the 36-point loss to UMASS. For them, a 12-point loss is a good day.

[Olympic Fan]

In only four games, this BC team already has a 22-point loss to Holy Cross as well as the 36-point loss to UMASS. For them, a 12-point loss is a good day.

Don't disagree ... I was only making the point that the standard that we will judge them by will be the 2010-11 Deacs. Right now, they are on a pace to be worse.

But don't jump the gun. Wake started last season poorly (losing the opener to Stetson at home), but they were still 6-4 after 10 games. Then the proceeded to get worse -- 2-21 the rest of the way (with only few close games in that mix). There were a lot of reasons for the collapse -- tougher competition, some injuries, but also dissention on the team (Bzdelik admits it -- that's why they were talking about addition by subtraction with the offseason loss of guys like Terrell and Stewart). And while I don't entirely blame Bzdelik for the collapse, he did little to prevent it.

In my opinion, this year's Boston College has less talent and less experience than the 10-11 Deacons (even after the Wake injuries). But I think Donohue is a better coach. I haven't heard any hints of dissessnion yet. He's got a couple of decent prospects. Dennis Clifford is going to be a good ACC big man. Patrick Heckmann is gioing to be a decent wing. I will be interested to see if he can make these guys better over the course of the season. They looked better against St. Louis than they did against Holy Cross or UMass. Real progress or a bad game by the Bllikens?

On paper, they should end up worse than last year's Deacs, but I have a sneaking suspicion that they will end up as a better team ... still a bottom of the barrel ACC team, but maybe not the worst ACC team in at least a quarter century (as Wake Forest was).

Great lineup today -- I'm especially pumped to watch the FSU-Harvard game at 4:30 (I think it's on Versus). It will be one of the rare times I pull against an ACC team (although I like FSU and think they are the ACC's third-best team -- by far) But Virginia Tech-Oklahoma State at 2:30 is pretty big. Not sure I agree with the front page assessment that Va Tech showed a lot in their loss to Syracuse earlier tin the week. They better bring it against an Okie team that just got hammered by Johnny D's Stanford team. Then I want to see how Dawkins and the Cardinals do against Syracuse in the title game.

Wake-Arizona State is another big one for the bottom of the league. The Deacs did look competitive against Dayton. Can they sustain that against a B-A-A-A-D-D-D-D Arizona State team (BTW: Are the people who rip State for not loving Herb Sendek paying attention to the horse-bleep job he's doing at ASU?).

Also checking in on Maryland-Florida Gulf Coast. Not that the game is interesting, but the Terps appear to be going the way of the 10-11 Deacons -- torn by injuries and dissention. Terrell Stoglin seems to have morphed into JT Terrell (0-for-9 one night, 32 points the next, 2-for-12 the next). It's not too late for Turgeon to pull them out of it... he gts a big boost when the 7-footer Len becomes eligible in seven more games and Howard should be back from his broken foot in a month. But these guys may already be in the dumper by then if things don't change quickly.

Finally, I'm going to be paying attention to the four games against BCS opponents. I've got the ACC ar 43-13 against outside competition so far, but more importantly, 8-4 against BCS opponents. Of course, 4-0 of that is Duke's four BCS wins (Mich State, Tennessee, Michigan, Kansas). It would help it we could sweep VPI-OSO; Miami-Oke Miss; Wake-ASU; UNC-South Carolina (yeah, I even pull for the Tar Heels ouside the ACC).

[Jderf]

(yeah, I even pull for the Tar Heels ouside the ACC).

I think a lot of us do. At least, more than you'd expect.

In conference, however, well... you know the drill.

[JasonEvans]

The Harvard-FSU game is a tough one for me. I won't be too upset no matter who wins. I sorta feel like the upper and middle tier ACC teams need to do better than ususal this year as the bottom of the league is incredibly sucky. This is the worst bottom of the league I can ever recall.

On the other hand, those middle-tier teams like Va Tech, Miami, NC State, and Virginia are gonna get a lot of conference wins against the sucky bottom. BC and Wake should be automatic wins, even on an off night, and I would think that Ga Tech, Clemson, and Maryland would not provide too much trouble either. There should be no excuse for not getting to .500 in the ACC and we may be able to get 7 or 8 teams to 9 wins. The ACC has had 6 teams win 9+ games in each of the past 3 years... we can best that this year by beating up a lot on the lousy bottom.

-Jason "Pomeroy still thinks Clemson and Maryland are pretty good... I'm not as convinced" Evans

[loran16]

The Harvard-FSU game is a tough one for me. I won't be too upset no matter who wins. I sorta feel like the upper and middle tier ACC teams need to do better than ususal this year as the bottom of the league is incredibly sucky. This is the worst bottom of the league I can ever recall.

On the other hand, those middle-tier teams like Va Tech, Miami, NC State, and Virginia are gonna get a lot of conference wins against the sucky bottom. BC and Wake should be automatic wins, even on an off night, and I would think that Ga Tech, Clemson, and Maryland would not provide too much trouble either. There should be no excuse for not getting to .500 in the ACC and we may be able to get 7 or 8 teams to 9 wins. The ACC has had 6 teams win 9+ games in each of the past 3 years... we can best that this year by beating up a lot on the lousy bottom.

-Jason "Pomeroy still thinks Clemson and Maryland are pretty good... I'm not as convinced" Evans

It's an odd game - a win by EITHER team is a good quality win (and not a bad loss if they lose). FSU's 3 point defense has been insane (I think I read opponents have been 2-26 from 3 in their last 2 games) so I expect them to win, but the real benefit of winning this game is a crack at UConn on a neutral floor - Harvard actually plays UConn @UConn later in the year, but this would be a much easier chance for the upset.

[pfrduke]

Wake last year is the standard -- by every measure, they were the worst ACC team since RPIs were calculated -- by almost 100 places. They were the first ACC team to lose 15 games. Their 24 overall losses were the most overall in ACC history. They weren't losing close games to nothing teams -- they lost (at home) by 10 to Stetson. By 9 at home to Elon. By 12 to UNC Wilmington. ... okay, by two at home to Presbyterian. Only one of their 15 ACC losses was by less than double figures.

That's said, I suspect this Boston College team is worse. I was able to watch BC lose to St. Louis a couple of hours before watching Wake lose a heatbreaker to Dayton. There's no doubt in my mind that Wake is 10-15 points better than the Eagles at the moment. They have at last a couple of decent ACC players in Harris and McKie. Their point guard/center (Chennalt/Derosiers) are not that much better than the BC equivilent (Clifford/Daniels) -- but they are a year older and that makes a huge difference.

BC may at least have competition for the worst BCS team this year. The newly-minted Pac-12 version of the Utah Utes are awful. On the season, they have a single win (by 2 points against non-DI San Diego Christian), a loss to Montana State, and blowout losses to Boise State (21) and Harvard (28). Interestingly enough, they play tonight the UMASS team that housed BC. Pomeroy has Utah ahead of BC for now, but it's easy to see the Utes ending up worse by the end of the season.

[devildeac]

Deacs losing big and U-G-L-Y tonight to Arizona State, 52-28 with under 14 to play.

[devildeac]

BC may at least have competition for the worst BCS team this year. The newly-minted Pac-12 version of the Utah Utes are awful. On the season, they have a single win (by 2 points against non-DI San Diego Christian), a loss to Montana State, and blowout losses to Boise State (21) and Harvard (28). Interestingly enough, they play tonight the UMASS team that housed BC. Pomeroy has Utah ahead of BC for now, but it's easy to see the Utes ending up worse by the end of the season.

BC with the W tonight, 66-62 over UC-Riverside in OT.

[JasonEvans]

BC with the W tonight, 66-62 over UC-Riverside in OT.

US-Riverside has not beaten a single division I team thus far this year. And yet they had a solid lead over BC before BC came back and eventually won in OT.

KenPom currently predicts that BC will go 7-22 in the regular season this year. Last year's woeful Wake club won only 8 game, the first ACC team not to get to double-digit wins since Carolina gloriously went 8-20 in 2002. Not ACC team has won less than 8 games in a season since Ga Tech joined the league in 1981 and went 4-23.

BC's awfulness is almost impossible to fathom. They are a serious threat to only win 5 or 6 games despite playing a laughably bad schedule. Aside from Harvard and St Louis, they don't have a single non-conference opponent ranked in Pomeroy's top 100. Wow... just sad.

-Jason "pathetic" Evans

[davekay1971]

Well, we've always wondered what it was like for schools like UConn and Syracuse to have schools like Rutgers to beat up on, giving them nice cushy automatic wins in the conference schedule. With Wake and BC this year, we get to find out.

Blech...I'd rather have back the ACC where your away game at the last place team was still going to be a tough night.

[Olympic Fan]

Enjoy beating up on the Eagles while we can. I'm becoming more and more convinced that Donohue will turn it around there -- with this group of kids.

Watched almost the whole BC-Riverside game Friday and I came away surprisingly impressed with the progress the Eagles have made in such a short time. I know Riverside is not very good, but neither was Holy Cross and they blew BC out a little over a week ago.

I was p%^$d to hear the TV commentators talking about what a big win it was going to be for Riverside -- picked 4th in the Big West -- to knock off an ACC team -- when it looked like Riverside was going to win. But BC surged late and took the lead. They seemed to have the game won, up six with less than a minute to go. But the kids choked and let Riverside in to tie it. Instead of folding after that collapse, Donohue's kids seized control of the OT and won fairly comfortably.

It was interesting, during pregame warmups, Donohue was out on the floor teaching -- they weren't just warming up. They were practicing. Late in the game, one of his kids fouled out and Donohue used the entire 90 seconds, not to ice the shooter or to decide on a replacement, but teach the kid coming out what he did wrong. He's got some nice kids -- Heckmann (32 points against Riverside) is farther along than I thought. Clifford is going to be decent inside and along with Caudil, he gives them some size.

Now, understand what I'm saying. BC is still going to finish 11th or 12th in the ACC this year. If Duke loses either game to them, it would be an unmitigated disaster. But the more I see of Donohue and these kids, the more I think they will not be as bad this season as Wake was last year. In fact, after watching Wake bite the big one against a weak Arizona State team last night, I'm no longer as certain as I was that BC will finish last in the ACC this year. They're going to get better and better and by February, they're going to be better than the Deacs.

[Duvall]

Two more losses for the ACC to schools from non-BCS conferences. Going to be a long year for the league.