Alex Murphy [Archive]

SCMatt33

11-22-2011, 10:40 AM

Has it been definitively established that Alex's playing in the exhibition games will prevent him from redshirting this year? I know this has been mentioned on this board before, but it would be nice to have a 'recruiting class' of Rasheed + Marshall and Alex each with a year of Duke experience under their belts. Add in TP and that's a great Class of 2016.

I don't think it would but there would likely be an NCAA punishment. Tim Abromaitis just had the same problem at ND. He played in Exhibition games and then redshirted his freshman year, and got suspended for the first four games this year (his senior year) because of it. It was only after he tried to play his fifth year that anyone noticed it, though, so that could affect how the rule is interpreted for Duke.

Bluedog

11-22-2011, 10:43 AM

I don't think it would but there would likely be an NCAA punishment. Tim Abromaitis just had the same problem at ND. He played in Exhibition games and then redshirted his freshman year, and got suspended for the first four games this year (his senior year) because of it. It was only after he tried to play his fifth year that anyone noticed it, though, so that could affect how the rule is interpreted for Duke.

Actually, the Abromaitis situation is a bit different. He played his ENTIRE freshman year. Then, his sophomore year he played in exhibition games and redshirted it. He played two more complete seasons. Then, his fifth year he was suspended for the first four games. In Alex's case, this is his freshman year, which makes a big difference according to Mike DeCourcy of the SportingNews:

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2011-10-11/notre-dames-tim-abromaitis-to-be-allowed-to-play-in-2011-12

The NCAA allows freshmen to play exhibition games and then spend the rest of the year as a redshirt—but not sophomores, juniors or seniors. The Notre Dame coaches misunderstood the rule and didn’t learn of their mistake until well into Abromaitis’ redshirt season.

I still haven't found this applicable clause in the NCAA rule book, though, but that article is from last month.

wk2109

11-22-2011, 10:43 AM

I don't think it would but there would likely be an NCAA punishment. Tim Abromaitis just had the same problem at ND. He played in Exhibition games and then redshirted his freshman year, and got suspended for the first four games this year (his senior year) because of it. It was only after he tried to play his fifth year that anyone noticed it, though, so that could affect how the rule is interpreted for Duke.

I thought Abromaitis was suspended because he was a sophomore when he played in the exhibition games. This is a quote from the ESPN article about the suspension:

As a sophomore in 2008-09, Abromaitis played in two exhibition games. He then sat the rest of the exhibition season so Notre Dame could preserve his full year of eligibility, a little loophole coaches happily use for redshirt freshmen frequently. Unfortunately, the NCAA doesn't allow you to pull that move with sophomores, something Notre Dame coach Mike Brey admitted to flat-out flubbing.

I'm not sure how I feel about trusting ESPN as an authority on NCAA redshirting rules though.

Bluedog

11-22-2011, 10:50 AM

Here we go (from MSU's compliance office):

Preseason Exhibitions/Preseason Practice Scrimmages During Initial Year: During a
student-athlete's initial year of enrollment at the certifying institution, he or she may
compete in preseason exhibition contests and preseason practice scrimmages (as
permitted in the particular sport per Bylaw 17) without counting such competition as
a season of competition. [14.2.3.1, 14.2.3.1.2, 14.2.3.1.3]

http://www.msu.edu/user/msuncaa/Medical%20Hardship%20Waivers.pdf

NCAA bylaw 14.2.3.1.3 seems to the be the applicable one here.

DoubleDuke Dad

11-22-2011, 11:00 AM

Actually, the Abromaitis situation is a bit different. He played his ENTIRE freshman year. Then, his sophomore year he played in exhibition games and redshirted it. He played two more complete seasons. Then, his fifth year he was suspended for the first four games. In Alex's case, this is his freshman year, which makes a big difference according to Mike DeCourcy of the SportingNews:

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2011-10-11/notre-dames-tim-abromaitis-to-be-allowed-to-play-in-2011-12

I still haven't found this applicable clause in the NCAA rule book, though, but that article is from last month.

To paraphrase a memorable movie line: Rules? We don't need no stinkin' rules! :D

Remember this is the NCAA we are talking about. They make it up as they go along!

wk2109

11-22-2011, 11:03 AM

Here we go (from MSU's compliance office):

http://www.msu.edu/user/msuncaa/Medical%20Hardship%20Waivers.pdf

NCAA bylaw 14.2.3.1.3 seems to the be the applicable one here.

Awesome thanks. Perhaps the coaching staff is keeping both Marshall AND Alex in its back pocket in case Duke doesn't get any more 2012 commitments.

SCMatt33

11-22-2011, 02:01 PM

Awesome thanks. Perhaps the coaching staff is keeping both Marshall AND Alex in its back pocket in case Duke doesn't get any more 2012 commitments.

I don't really think that they are related that much. I don't think that Duke will end up recruiting anyone besides Bazz and TP in 2012 anyway. Redshirting theoretically only adds a guy for their senior year. Bazz definitely is a 2 year guy at most and TP is likely a multiyear guy, but there is no guarantee that he would stay four years either. Missing on the 2012 recruits would have the biggest impact on Duke's roster for the next two years, and both Alex and Marshall will be there anyway. Redshirting is really more about player development rather than having enough bodies on the roster.

Jderf

11-22-2011, 02:07 PM

Redshirting is really more about player development rather than having enough bodies on the roster.

In this case, at least. A lot of the time, though, the roster plays a large role. Otherwise, I completely agree.

Greg_Newton

11-22-2011, 02:07 PM

Big Pappa

11-22-2011, 02:31 PM

Are we sure that he is completely healthy?

Kedsy

11-22-2011, 02:59 PM

Are we sure that he is completely healthy?

Wow, where have you been? Glad to see you're still around.

wk2109

11-22-2011, 03:08 PM

I really hope we don't redshirt him. First of all, I think we could use him this year - he attacks the basket better than anyone on our team not named Austin Rivers, gives great length at the 3 without being an offensive liability, and is quick. Second, I think it's extremely unlikely he hangs around for a fifth-year; heck, I'll be thrilled if we get four out of him. So, there's not much to gain.

I know it's early, but I can't see Alex making much of an impact this year, especially not offensively. I think Duke is counting on its scoring to come from Seth, Austin, Andre, Mason, Ryan, and, to a lesser extent, Miles.

I think right now the game is a little too fast for Alex. He's still at the point (when he was actually playing) where I'm pleasantly surprised when he makes a good play. If he or Mike is gonna break into the rotation, I think it'll be for reasons similar to Elliot Williams' insertion into the starting lineup -- more for defensive purposes because their body types, length, and athletic abilities allow them to guard players that no one else in the rotation can guard.

MChambers

11-22-2011, 03:21 PM

Are we sure that he is completely healthy?

I'm certainly not sure. The word was that he was cleared to practice last Monday, so you'd think he's healthy, but Duke hasn't had a lot of practice time during that period, what with 3 games and a long airplane ride, so he probably isn't back into the flow yet.

Matches

11-22-2011, 03:26 PM

ThePublisher

11-22-2011, 10:13 PM

The only way we'd really want to redshirt him is if he's injured all season, in which case he'll qualify for a medical redshirt.

If the staff had been of the opinion that he wasn't needed or useful on this year's team, he wouldn't have been here a year early.

So you don't think a redshirt year at Duke will be better for his development than another year in high school? A year of practicing with Duke v playing in HS.....
I remember hearing about him redshirting as a possibility over the summer.

Newton_14

11-22-2011, 10:19 PM

From my understanding, there is no intention of red-shirting Murphy. They have not had any real practice time since he was cleared from the injury, which is likely why he will not play in Maui. I expect we will see him back out there in action in the December games. It would greatly help to have Murph as a backup to Andre at the 3 spot.

He will be back out there soon. Concussions are not treated lightly these days.

uh_no

11-22-2011, 10:19 PM

So you don't think a redshirt year at Duke will be better for his development than another year in high school? A year of practicing with Duke v playing in HS.....
I remember hearing about him redshirting as a possibility over the summer.

You heard about the possibility here, but I don't think anyone close to the program thought that there was ever a chance for a redshirt. Either way, the decision doesn't need to be made now. If coach K things their play will help us win in a particular instance, then he'll play them without regard to "burning the redshirt." If we get to the end of the year and one or both have not played, then they can stay and play an extra year if they want to stick around for grad school.

I don't K would ever purposefully lessen the strength of one team to maybe improve a team 4 years down the road. If it happens, it happens.

westwall

11-23-2011, 04:06 AM

Alex's concussion may have been more serious than generally assumed. Based on appearances at Maui, the seating order -which has remained static- puts Alex above only Todd and Marshall and below Gbinije, Hairston, Cook, Miles and Tyler in terms of possible subs. Knowing K's preference for 7-8 man rotations, that increases (but does mandate) the possibility of a redshirt, and if so a medical redshirt. That may change, but for now a redshirt year remains an option.

jamesfrommaiden

11-28-2011, 06:18 PM

Bluedog

11-28-2011, 06:22 PM

I have not heard anything lately about the status of Alex Murphy. Is he still injured? Is Coach K planning on redshirting him along with Marshall? I can see where Alex could get some time on the court and help out the team with his size and skill at the three position. I do not know where he stands as far as his defensive ability at this point however. Just putting it out there to see if anybody has a clue or idea on his current status.

Check out this thread:

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?26631-Alex-Murphy

From my understanding, there is no intention of red-shirting Murphy. They have not had any real practice time since he was cleared from the injury, which is likely why he will not play in Maui. I expect we will see him back out there in action in the December games. It would greatly help to have Murph as a backup to Andre at the 3 spot.

He will be back out there soon. Concussions are not treated lightly these days.

He likely just needs to get in the groove of things after having sat out for a while.

-jk

11-28-2011, 06:33 PM

Threads merged...

-jk

jimsumner

11-28-2011, 07:54 PM

After the OSU game, Duke should have a number of opportunities to get playing time for Murphy, Gbinijie, Cook and Thornton.

-jk

11-28-2011, 08:15 PM

After the OSU game, Duke should have a number of opportunities to get playing time for Murphy, Gbinijie, Cook and Thornton.

It's been a heavily frontloaded season, with a nice break in Dec for practice and rebalancing the team. As always, I look forward to watching K tinker.

-jk

Mcluhan

11-28-2011, 09:02 PM

Apart from a general desire to see all of our players do well, I don't totally understand the desire to insert new players into a rotation that's improving rapidly, and collectively earning its minutes.

For whatever reason, the coaches are not putting him in the game. And we're in pretty good shape.

loran16

11-28-2011, 09:40 PM

After the OSU game, Duke should have a number of opportunities to get playing time for Murphy, Gbinijie, Cook and Thornton.

I don't think you meant to include TT in that list - he's already solidly in the rotation as the first guard off the bench.

DukieInBrasil

11-28-2011, 09:53 PM

I don't think you meant to include TT in that list - he's already solidly in the rotation as the first guard off the bench.
Agreed, Hairston has been the guy just outside the rotation, not Tyler. Josh hasn't played poorly, but he's only been in 5 of the 7.

OldPhiKap

11-28-2011, 10:09 PM

Agreed, Hairston has been the guy just outside the rotation, not Tyler. Josh hasn't played poorly, but he's only been in 5 of the 7.

I am a HUGE Josh fan, and his time will come. Right now Miles, Mason and Ryan are (rightfully) getting the minutes. But as many have said on the Ryan thread, part of playing at Duke (especially those with big bodies) is working your way up through the years. I thing Josh will have a big impact this year, and can be a monster over the following two. I really like his game and the attitude he projects both on and off the court.

Josh, stay positive and stay in the weight room!

ForkFondler

11-28-2011, 10:14 PM

I don't think you meant to include TT in that list - he's already solidly in the rotation as the first guard off the bench.

More to the point, the only player named Thorton has the middle name of Freakin.

Big Pappa

11-29-2011, 07:17 PM

Wow, where have you been? Glad to see you're still around.

I'm certainly not sure. The word was that he was cleared to practice last Monday, so you'd think he's healthy, but Duke hasn't had a lot of practice time during that period, what with 3 games and a long airplane ride, so he probably isn't back into the flow yet.

Thanks guys. Been reading you guys still quite a bit (well the guys who know what they are talking about) but haven't had time to post in a while. Got married, changed jobs, moved, and started grad school in the last year. Good to be back, I'll try to post some more soon.

Concerning Alex - I was probably more excited about him (aside from AR) after China than any other freshman. I really think he can give us a swing man that is big enough to stretch the floor. He can also shoot and he ran really well in China and Dubai. I think if/when he gets completely healthy he will be a factor backing up Dre and possibly covering some of the bigger stretch 3-men in the ACC.

DukeHoopsGuru

11-29-2011, 07:40 PM

Been reading this thread for a few days. I'm in favor of a redshirt, which still seems possible. Duke's already in the middle of developing a consistent rotation after losing 3 starters. Adding a player into mix who is going to play limited minutes isn't worth the benefit of having the kid learn in practice. I am 100% in favor of redshirting Alex Murphy. Dre graduated a year early helped Duke because he excelled at one niche, shooting. I truly believe Andre Dawkins saved Duke's season when he hit that 3 to end the half against Baylor. Alex doesn't have a superb skill that playing 5 minutes a game will significantly enhance Duke's chances of winning a title. And age aside, the kid went from being a high school junior to college. Let him mature physically and learn the game. Plumlee, Sheed, and Alex is becomes quite the incoming class in a weird way.

Newton_14

11-29-2011, 08:13 PM

mkline09

11-29-2011, 08:21 PM

If Murphy isn't completely healthy why the hell was he doing a flip off some rocks in that Duke Blue Planet video from Maui? Thought I'd ask. Can't wait to seem him on the court.

SupaDave

11-29-2011, 09:29 PM

Thanks guys. Been reading you guys still quite a bit (well the guys who know what they are talking about) but haven't had time to post in a while. Got married, changed jobs, moved, and started grad school in the last year. Good to be back, I'll try to post some more soon.

Concerning Alex - I was probably more excited about him (aside from AR) after China than any other freshman. I really think he can give us a swing man that is big enough to stretch the floor. He can also shoot and he ran really well in China and Dubai. I think if/when he gets completely healthy he will be a factor backing up Dre and possibly covering some of the bigger stretch 3-men in the ACC.

Wondering when you would resurface. What up Big Pappa! Congrats!

Newton_14

11-29-2011, 09:31 PM

Thanks guys. Been reading you guys still quite a bit (well the guys who know what they are talking about) but haven't had time to post in a while. Got married, changed jobs, moved, and started grad school in the last year. Good to be back, I'll try to post some more soon.

Concerning Alex - I was probably more excited about him (aside from AR) after China than any other freshman. I really think he can give us a swing man that is big enough to stretch the floor. He can also shoot and he ran really well in China and Dubai. I think if/when he gets completely healthy he will be a factor backing up Dre and possibly covering some of the bigger stretch 3-men in the ACC.

Welcome back and congrats on the marriage. Look forward to having you posting regularly again.

DukeHoopsGuru

11-30-2011, 12:32 AM

It would seem to me if there was ever a night to play tonight would have been it. I think Duke is redshirting Murph, and I hope they do.

COYS

11-30-2011, 12:36 AM

It would seem to me if there was ever a night to play tonight would have been it. I think Duke is redshirting Murph, and I hope they do.

Out of curiosity, why do you hope he's red-shirted? He's a talented player with good athleticism. There's a pretty good chance he doesn't stay four years, anyway. Plus, as tonight's game showed, our small rotation in the 1-3 spots might not cut it. Gbinije was good tonight, but Alex might also be good. In fact, Alex + Gbinije might have been useful tonight, especially with Ryan on the bench. At 6-8 and super mobile, Alex can guard players Ryan can't and still has enough size to be a small-ball 4 (whereas Gbinije probably doesn't). If the staff does redshirt him, I'm sure they'll be making the right call, but I don't really see the benefit unless they are certain he won't ever be needed, all season long.

Kedsy

11-30-2011, 12:56 AM

At 6-8 and super mobile, Alex can guard players Ryan can't and still has enough size to be a small-ball 4 (whereas Gbinije probably doesn't).

He only played in China and CTC and the exhibition games, right? I didn't see anything in those games that suggests he can guard players Ryan can't. Maybe eventually, but I'm not convinced yet at this stage.

Gorilla

11-30-2011, 01:06 AM

As a player I think it's best that he does red shirt and learn. Why waste a year playing sparingly?

Greg_Newton

11-30-2011, 02:44 AM

As a player I think it's best that he does red shirt and learn. Why waste a year playing sparingly?

Why waste a year redshirting when you could be playing?

I don't understand how a concussion sent him from competing for a starting spot to the redshirt watchlist, first of all. He's a 6'8 athlete who can shoot the ball and get to the rim.

But anyway... do we really see him staying in Durham for five years? I'll be happy enough if we get him for four, counting this one...

mkline09

11-30-2011, 08:19 AM

I wouldn't be shocked to see Alex Murphy become the next Elliot Williams. Remember Williams played very little in the first half of his freshman year and then out of the blue seemingly he was starting and played well. He gave the team fresh legs and a burst of energy. Now I don't believe Alex is as athletic and he can't play the same role but he could have the same funtion-- give the team a different look. I wouldn't be shocked that if all of a sudden one day he starts playing regular minutes. Just a theory and I have no basis with which to support it, just a feeling.

OldPhiKap

11-30-2011, 08:43 AM

MCFinARL

11-30-2011, 09:21 AM

Why waste a year redshirting when you could be playing?

Yes, but, IIRC, Murphy was supposed to be in high school (or maybe a PG year) this year. He decided to come to Duke because he thought he could learn more and improve his game more than if he stayed in high school. While you may be right that it's unlikely he will stay 5 years, in which case a redshirt would be pointless, it may also be true that he is not necessarily in a hurry to get on the court if he thinks he is learning and growing in practice, and if he has (or the doctors have) lingering concerns about his concussion.

COYS

11-30-2011, 09:22 AM

He only played in China and CTC and the exhibition games, right? I didn't see anything in those games that suggests he can guard players Ryan can't. Maybe eventually, but I'm not convinced yet at this stage.

Let me put it this way, he has the ability to guard players Ryan can't even if he hasn't shown it yet. I am in no way suggesting that Ryan be benched. In fact, I think Ryan is one of our most important players, last night notwithstanding. All I'm saying is that Alex has a skill set that is unique on the team and may very well be advantageous to the team THIS season.

OldPhiKap

11-30-2011, 10:23 AM

Let me put it this way, he has the ability to guard players Ryan can't even if he hasn't shown it yet.

Not doubting, just curious as to what supports comments like this. Alex is like Big Foot to me -- never seen him, but the tales I hear are off the chart.

Again, not doubting. I'm looking for info/sources from you and others. Thanks! OPK

johnb

11-30-2011, 10:49 AM

If a player is not able to edge into our 8-10 man rotation as a freshman, I doubt he will go pro early. IIRC, all of our guys who went pro early were playing a lot of freshman minutes and were generally seen as stars. The other guys would take one look at Deng, Brand, Jay Williams, etc., as October freshman, and they'd anoint them as future NBA starters. Occasionally, a Dunleavy will pop up, but one reason he wasn't an obvious early entrant is because the rest of his team was so good and he then got a lot of press in the tournament. As it stands, we don't have anybody on this team who is an obvious NBA starter. Sure, Rivers probably will be, but he will need to develop himself considerably beyond a great driver with so-so defense, passing, judgment, and outside shooting. Mason might be as well, but I wouldn't bet the house on it. Last night was sobering and reminded me that we simply aren't as good as the teams with the really elite talent; we do have near-elite talent all over the place, however, so there's no reason we can't win 30 games and compete for the Final Four. I don't care if Carolina loses 5 or 6 games between now and our games with them, they should still be favored based on their talent level alone.

For Murphy (who had planned to finish hs as a 5th yr senior), I'd say that practicing for a year with the team is better for his development than crushing New England preppies for a few months, and while they had denied the redshirt was planned, it makes sense. Similarly, MP3 is not so good that he would leave early. He will have a much greater impact as a 5th year senior than as a freshman 11th man. And it's nice problem to decide to redshirt two McDonald's-AA-level freshman (even if a reason one made it and the other would have is partly because of the Duke/Plumleebrother/skin color stuff)

ChillinDuke

11-30-2011, 11:14 AM

Not doubting, just curious as to what supports comments like this. Alex is like Big Foot to me -- never seen him, but the tales I hear are off the chart.

Again, not doubting. I'm looking for info/sources from you and others. Thanks! OPK

This. Couldn't agree more.

The calls for Alex Murphy sound eerily like the inflated expectations often aired on this board for a Top-25 recruit who is going to make a huge impact and start his entire freshman year. Little basis and some grasping at clouds.

I'm not taking anything away from Alex, and I'm very excited to see him suit up and play. But the calls for him to play and make a difference on this team are largely unfounded and have very little supporting evidence. The coaches gave him some praise pre-season, yes, and a taller wing is arguably our biggest weakness. But he didn't play particularly well in China (IMO), has zero regular season game experience to this point, is an early arrival on campus, and is playing on a deep team.

Love to see him play. Game changer? Jury's still out.

- Chillin

PS - And from a purely fan perspective, non-game changers are more helpful redshirting so they can improve into game changers. From a coaching/player perspective, this is nowhere near the case. Doesn't make either perspective incorrect, just different.

Kedsy

11-30-2011, 11:43 AM

Big Pappa

11-30-2011, 12:23 PM

Perhaps, except Elliot Williams averaged 16 minutes a game in his first 7 games. It was really only the first half of the ACC season (a little less than that, actually) that he played very little.

Good point on Williams. It seems to me that all of the red-shirt talk was initiated on this board, and from what I have heard from those close with the team they have no interest in red-shirting him. I agree with the posters that have said they would be happy if Alex stays his entire eligibility. He's a great player who seemingly, before his concussion, was going to be the 7-8 man rotation mix.

Obviously this is somewhat of a bigfoot-esque comment, but I expect Alex to be playing 15+ minutes in January and going forward.

Starter

11-30-2011, 02:03 PM

GoodmanCBS Jeff Goodman
Most likely will redshirt. RT @crazietalker: @GoodmanCBS Duke does have a big wing on the roster - he goes by the name of Alex Murphy.
39 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

For what it's worth...

oldnavy

11-30-2011, 03:00 PM

Not sure what the health status of Alex is, but a concussion can be a nasty bugger. My son took a fall and hit his head playing basketball his junior year of high school (over 2 years ago) and he is still having issues from it.... at times serious issues, like headache, insomnia, dizziness, etc.. he is being followed by a neurologist and seems to be improving, but it is a much slower process than any of us would like.

So, having said that, Alex may appear to be doing well "physically", but he may not have fully recovered from the knock on the head.

Has there been an offical update to his status recently??

superdave

11-30-2011, 03:11 PM

For what it's worth...

Was just aboot to post that. This decision, same as in the discussion of Marshall redshirting, can be made after the fact, if Alex does not wind up recovering and playing this season. Would be a shame. He looked ready this summer.

dcar1985

11-30-2011, 03:37 PM

Was just aboot to post that. This decision, same as in the discussion of Marshall redshirting, can be made after the fact, if Alex does not wind up recovering and playing this season. Would be a shame. He looked ready this summer.

I really hope if he is eventually redshirted its not because of his health...but I do have to disagree that at any time outside of the reports of him playing well in practice did he actually look ready to contribute.

westwall

12-01-2011, 12:15 AM

superdave

12-01-2011, 09:28 AM

[QUOTE=oldnavy;532954]Not sure what the health status of Alex is, but a concussion can be a nasty bugger. [QUOTE]

I agree. As I said in an earlier post, his medical condition may require that redshirt be a continuing option.

Alex has been dressed out for all 8 games, correct? If he were that bad, he would not even dress, in my opinion. I'm assuming that he has missed enough practice time to not be considered game ready, rather than having cobwebs still. But what do I know. I guess we'll here something from someone who knows something before long.

COYS

12-01-2011, 09:32 AM

Not doubting, just curious as to what supports comments like this. Alex is like Big Foot to me -- never seen him, but the tales I hear are off the chart.

Again, not doubting. I'm looking for info/sources from you and others. Thanks! OPK

My posts about Alex's capabilities were as much speculation based on his reputation as anything else. This all started when the poster I was originally responded to said he "hoped" that Alex would redshirt and I asked why, stating that Alex's skillset is unique on the team and might be useful this season, if the staff feels he is ready. Whether or not he is ready to contribute this year remains entirely up to the staff. I was merely imagining areas in which Alex might be able to help the team this season based on his reputation.

Also, while Alex is still a mystery, I think we've seen enough of him even in China to notice that he is particularly mobile and quick for a 6-8 guy so I don't think speculating that he has the ability or will be able to develop the ability to guard players in the 6-6 to 6-8 small forward mold is too outlandish.

Kedsy

12-01-2011, 10:00 AM

Also, while Alex is still a mystery, I think we've seen enough of him even in China to notice that he is particularly mobile and quick for a 6-8 guy so I don't think speculating that he has the ability or will be able to develop the ability to guard players in the 6-6 to 6-8 small forward mold is too outlandish.

You are absolutely correct. The question is how quickly he will develop those defensive skills and whether or not it will be this season. The pre-season word was that Alex was fighting for a starting spot (and then he did start the first exhibition game), so your speculation for the future was not out of line. I just thought saying "he can guard players Ryan can't," which implies he can currently do this, was beyond anything we've seen or heard.

CDu

12-01-2011, 10:22 AM

You are absolutely correct. The question is how quickly he will develop those defensive skills and whether or not it will be this season. The pre-season word was that Alex was fighting for a starting spot (and then he did start the first exhibition game), so your speculation for the future was not out of line. I just thought saying "he can guard players Ryan can't," which implies he can currently do this, was beyond anything we've seen or heard.

Agreed. I think there's a lot of potential in Murphy. As you said, that doesn't mean it's been realized yet. Maybe it comes this year. But I haven't seen anything from him yet to suggest it will be this year as opposed to next or the year after.

I'd agree with a statement that he has the athletic skillset to allow him to guard players Kelly can't. I don't think we've seen the evidence to say he absolutely can guard players that Kelly can't.

Bluedevil114

12-01-2011, 11:31 AM

For a guy with a concussion, on Duke Blueplanet Maui 5-0 he is doing flips on rocks into the water. I guess it is ok because he landed on his feet. hmmmmmm

dcar1985

12-01-2011, 12:27 PM

For a guy with a concussion, on Duke Blueplanet Maui 5-0 he is doing flips on rocks into the water. I guess it is ok because he landed on his feet. hmmmmmm

I don't get why its so hard to believe he's not ready to contribute to the team yet....too many people caught up in the whole Singler/Dunleavy 2.0 thing

NSDukeFan

12-01-2011, 01:25 PM

I don't get why its so hard to believe he's not ready to contribute to the team yet....too many people caught up in the whole Singler/Dunleavy 2.0 thing

See Kedsy's post above for why I am hoping he may be able to contribute to the team. He showed glimpses of potential in China, was named a starter for the first exhibition game and there were rumors about his competing for a starting spot in the pre-season. These have me optimistic that Murphy 1.0 may have a role on this team as a wing forward that has the height to guard bigger wing forwards and may score as more of a slasher than the team's other backcourt players. Whether he does this year or not, I don't know, but that is why I am optimistic that he may play a valuable role on this year's team as well as future squads.

CDu

12-01-2011, 01:39 PM

For a guy with a concussion, on Duke Blueplanet Maui 5-0 he is doing flips on rocks into the water. I guess it is ok because he landed on his feet. hmmmmmm

Yeah, I get the idea that concussions are a big deal. But if he's been cleared for practice (which he has been) and he's being videoed doing flips off of rocks, I'm guessing that residual symptoms of concussion aren't the reason he hasn't played. They wouldn't clear him for full practice if he wasn't ready for basketball play.

Instead, I'd be more inclined to believe that he's currently 3rd on the SF depth chart (and #2 on the depth chart doesn't play much either), and hasn't yet shown enough in practice (perhaps due to a limited number of practices since returning) to push ahead of Gbinije or Dawkins. I don't have any idea whether that'll change, but it would seem like at least one of the three will have to see very limited minutes.

The tricky question I see is that these guys will all be back next year, with the possiblity of Shabazz Muhammad joining them? I guess that's more a thought for next year.

Saratoga2

12-01-2011, 02:36 PM

Yeah, I get the idea that concussions are a big deal. But if he's been cleared for practice (which he has been) and he's being videoed doing flips off of rocks, I'm guessing that residual symptoms of concussion aren't the reason he hasn't played. They wouldn't clear him for full practice if he wasn't ready for basketball play.

Instead, I'd be more inclined to believe that he's currently 3rd on the SF depth chart (and #2 on the depth chart doesn't play much either), and hasn't yet shown enough in practice (perhaps due to a limited number of practices since returning) to push ahead of Gbinije or Dawkins. I don't have any idea whether that'll change, but it would seem like at least one of the three will have to see very limited minutes.

The tricky question I see is that these guys will all be back next year, with the possiblity of Shabazz Muhammad joining them? I guess that's more a thought for next year.

There will be some easier games coming in December. If we are doing well against an opponent, why not get him in to see what he can do? With his size and athletic ability, why not find him some playing time. Actually against OSU and down by 20 late would also have been a good time. Something just doesn't make a lot of sense about why he is not getting off the bench at all.

airowe

12-01-2011, 02:52 PM

There will be some easier games coming in December. If we are doing well against an opponent, why not get him in to see what he can do?

I don't think we'll see that happen.

Something just doesn't make a lot of sense about why he is not getting off the bench at all.

Agreed. Confusing, to say the least.:confused:

BD80

12-01-2011, 03:48 PM

There will be some easier games coming in December. ...

Glancing at the Big10 v ACC results this year, I presume you are talking about conference games

One consequence of a concussion may be an inabilty to tolerate excessive exersion. That was one of the symptoms that kept Sydney Crosby out so long, he couldn't train at the level he needed to prepare himself to play in a game. Jumping into water may not be a measure of Alex's recovery.

Devilsfan

12-01-2011, 04:05 PM

Hope he can contribute soon.

oldnavy

12-01-2011, 04:42 PM

I don't think we'll see that happen.

Agreed. Confusing, to say the least.:confused:

Holy cow man, where did you get that avatar?? That is hilarious!!

airowe

12-01-2011, 05:40 PM

Holy cow man, where did you get that avatar?? That is hilarious!!

I conceptualized it to look like the Jumpman logo (everything except the Prayer Thornton part) and my friend @chrisalyss did the design work and added the Prayer Thornton to complete the mocking.

If you want to use them anywhere, feel free. I've attached the B&W and Blue full size ones as well as a 98x100 if you want to use them as avatars.

2158 2159

2160 2161

CDu

12-01-2011, 05:50 PM

There will be some easier games coming in December. If we are doing well against an opponent, why not get him in to see what he can do? With his size and athletic ability, why not find him some playing time. Actually against OSU and down by 20 late would also have been a good time. Something just doesn't make a lot of sense about why he is not getting off the bench at all.

If the plan isn't to consider a redshirt, then I expect he'll play against some of these weaker opponents. If he doesn't play in those games, I think we'll have an answer as to whether or not the team is considering a redshirt for him.

CDu

12-01-2011, 05:52 PM

One consequence of a concussion may be an inabilty to tolerate excessive exersion. That was one of the symptoms that kept Sydney Crosby out so long, he couldn't train at the level he needed to prepare himself to play in a game. Jumping into water may not be a measure of Alex's recovery.

I seem to recall hearing that he returned to practice the week prior to the Maui trip, and I don't remember hearing anything about limited practice. If my recollection is correct, then the "can't tolerate excessive exertion" theory doesn't hold. I'm quite sure the team practices very hard.

bob blue devil

12-01-2011, 07:12 PM

have we explored other possible explanations as to why he's not playing (e.g. eligibility concerns, broke team rules/silent suspension, etc.)? i recognize injury and red shirt are the most likely explanations, but what are the chances there is something else at play?

Newton_14

12-01-2011, 07:19 PM

I seem to recall hearing that he returned to practice the week prior to the Maui trip, and I don't remember hearing anything about limited practice. If my recollection is correct, then the "can't tolerate excessive exertion" theory doesn't hold. I'm quite sure the team practices very hard.

The team has only had 2 real practices since Alex was cleared to played. I still expect to see him on the floor in the next game as they will have been through several practices beforehand. I was surprised he did not play in the 2nd half of OSU, but I think K was so peeved by that point he likely said to hell with making changes. I think 5 guys ended up playing most of the 2nd half. I didn't even look at the box score but I don't recall many subs after the first TV Timeout. Plus Mike was playing well and getting good experience.

CDu

12-01-2011, 09:49 PM

The team has only had 2 real practices since Alex was cleared to played. I still expect to see him on the floor in the next game as they will have been through several practices beforehand. I was surprised he did not play in the 2nd half of OSU, but I think K was so peeved by that point he likely said to hell with making changes. I think 5 guys ended up playing most of the 2nd half. I didn't even look at the box score but I don't recall many subs after the first TV Timeout. Plus Mike was playing well and getting good experience.

Right. My point wasn't to suggest he's definitely going to redshirt. Just that his lack of playing time the last two weeks hasn't been due to concussion symptoms. I think the "he hasn't had the practices to win time back" possibility has merit. The December games will have allowed him ample practice time to win time back, AND lesser competition to ease in. So if they're planning on not redshirting him, he'll play in these games.

Newton_14

12-01-2011, 10:48 PM

Right. My point wasn't to suggest he's definitely going to redshirt. Just that his lack of playing time the last two weeks hasn't been due to concussion symptoms. I think the "he hasn't had the practices to win time back" possibility has merit. The December games will have allowed him ample practice time to win time back, AND lesser competition to ease in. So if they're planning on not redshirting him, he'll play in these games.

Agree. Not only no chance to "win time back", also no chance for the staff to see him a lot in full scrimmages taking contact, and evaluate if he is fully over the concussion. No chance to work him back into the mix and get him reacclimated, etc.

I knew you were not suggesting the redshirt there.

I am also not 100% sure if participating in exhibition games prevent non-medical redshirts or not. Some say they count, others don't. Alex played in both exhibition games. If the rules allow non-medical redshirts even if a kid plays in exhibitions, then why did K hold MP3 out of both exhibitions? Did we ever get full closure on what the rules state on this?

jv001

12-01-2011, 11:00 PM

I don't think we'll see that happen.

Agreed. Confusing, to say the least.:confused:

I usually take it to the bank when you post something. However as you say confusing to say the least. Your comment that say's you don't think we'll see that happen regarding Alex playing is December makes me think his injury is worse than expected or he's redshirting. Or he could be so far behind everyone else in practice that he cannot contribute. Color me confused! GoDuke!

westwall

12-02-2011, 12:03 AM

I think that Airowe's statement: "I don't think we'll see that happen" is a commentary on the severity of Alex's concussion and a clue that redshirting remains an option, and that his statement: "Confusing, to say the least" is a commentary on the confusion generated on this board by rank speculations that seek other explanations for Alex's zero playing time. Airowe is well-connected and knows more than he flatly states, and is mischieviously feeding the confusion. During all three games in Maui, Alex's body language clearly indicated that he had no thought or hope of actually getting into any game (his jumps into the resort pool notwithstanding) and, based on Airowe's first statement, we can expect to see Alex remain sitting for games in Decmber and possibly well beyond. Just because Alex may be "cleared" for some level of practice (e.g., shooting foul shots) does not mean he is ready for highly physical inside play.

Mike Corey

12-02-2011, 12:10 AM

Just listen to Airowe. The man is all over this.

btown

12-02-2011, 09:09 AM

My posts about Alex's capabilities were as much speculation based on his reputation as anything else. This all started when the poster I was originally responded to said he "hoped" that Alex would redshirt and I asked why, stating that Alex's skillset is unique on the team and might be useful this season, if the staff feels he is ready. Whether or not he is ready to contribute this year remains entirely up to the staff. I was merely imagining areas in which Alex might be able to help the team this season based on his reputation.

Also, while Alex is still a mystery, I think we've seen enough of him even in China to notice that he is particularly mobile and quick for a 6-8 guy so I don't think speculating that he has the ability or will be able to develop the ability to guard players in the 6-6 to 6-8 small forward mold is too outlandish.

Although he has the potential to become a good player, I think it would be a good idea for him to readshirt. Forget about what you read in his BIO, he had 10 games last year where he didn't score more than 8 pts against fairly weak competition. He was the third leading scorer on his HS team over a 30 game season. This hardly qualifies him for freshman minutes at Duke.

jv001

12-02-2011, 09:13 AM

Just listen to Airowe. The man is all over this.

Well I was partly correct in my guess, but I left out one other reason. GoDuke!

airowe

12-02-2011, 09:49 AM

Didn't mean to feed confusion. I'm confused myself.

All I'm saying is not to expect to see Alex play during these games coming up.

btown

12-02-2011, 10:06 AM

I don't get why its so hard to believe he's not ready to contribute to the team yet....too many people caught up in the whole Singler/Dunleavy 2.0 thing
Couldn't agree more. He's nowhere close to being a Singler replacement. Maybe in a year or two, but certainly not now.

roywhite

12-02-2011, 11:03 AM

Didn't mean to feed confusion. I'm confused myself.

All I'm saying is not to expect to see Alex play during these games coming up.

What a big mystery we have with the contributions of the freshman class overall this year.
We know Austin will play regularly and be an impact player, though we don't know very precisely just how good he'll be by late season.
We think MP3 will redshirt.

But Quinn Cook, Michael Gbinije, Alex Murphy?
It's entirely possible that one of them pulls an Elliot Williams situation, enters the lineup well into the season, and becomes a major factor.
It's possible that not one of the three approaches 10 minutes per game.
I'll wager that even Coach K's crystal ball doesn't tell him how this aspect of team development works out.
We just have to wait and see.

Alex, hope you get back to 100% soon and are able to play.

btown

12-02-2011, 11:21 AM

You know, you can make anybody look good with a highlight video or showing an issolated dunk here and there. Have a look at these videos (Murphy playing HS last year) and you tell me you think he's going to get minutes. Murphy is #5.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L88q9Od9RII
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xRQi7fPFGE&feature=related

jv001

12-02-2011, 11:27 AM

What a big mystery we have with the contributions of the freshman class overall this year.
We know Austin will play regularly and be an impact player, though we don't know very precisely just how good he'll be by late season.
We think MP3 will redshirt.

But Quinn Cook, Michael Gbinije, Alex Murphy?
It's entirely possible that one of them pulls an Elliot Williams situation, enters the lineup well into the season, and becomes a major factor.
It's possible that not one of the three approaches 10 minutes per game.
I'll wager that even Coach K's crystal ball doesn't tell him how this aspect of team development works out.
We just have to wait and see.

Alex, hope you get back to 100% soon and are able to play.

We have seen a glimpse of just how good Austin can be. I expect him to an impact player just as you stated. As for Quinn, I believe he will be a valuable player in our rotation but how many minutes he takes from Seth, Austin and Andre remains to be seen. Quinn seems to be a pretty good on the ball defender but not a great one at this point in his career. I do believe he will get better. Michael Gbinijie seems to "get it" and is not intimidated this early in his career and could begin to see minutes at the sf. For sure MP3 is redshirting barring any injuries to our bigs. As for Alex do we know how many minutes will be available for him. If he's not going to see much action now, how do we expect him to get many minutes once ACC play begins. Coach K will more than likely go with his top 7-8 players. Someone's minutes is going down. what does that leave for Alex? Is it better for him to redshirt? Remember he normally would be playing his senior year in high school. All I know is that Coach K has it under control and things will settle into play soon. GoDuke!

ArtVandelay

12-02-2011, 12:32 PM

The tricky question I see is that these guys will all be back next year, with the possiblity of Shabazz Muhammad joining them? I guess that's more a thought for next year.

This is partially speculation, but I would guess Murphy will at least have a shot at getting minutes at the 4 next year based on height and skill set. Obviously K seems to like the "face-up mobile 4" model (e.g. Singler, Battier, etc.). I'm not sure if Murphy will be capable of holding down that position next year in terms of strength and so forth, particularly given all of our limited knowledge about him, but it seems to me like that's a logical solution to our potentially crowded backcourt/wing next year. Plus I'm assuming Mason is gone after this season, so there will be holes to fill in the front court. A 4/5 combo of Murphy/Kelly would be one hell of a "mobile big man" front court, although potentially a bit lacking on the defensive/rebounding end. Of course, this is all pretty far down the road and in a state of flux with the Parker/Shabazz recruiting being up in the air, but it's fun to talk about anyway.

wilko

12-02-2011, 01:32 PM

OldPhiKap

12-02-2011, 01:36 PM

Kedsy

12-02-2011, 01:49 PM

I've wondered whether there is a deadline to declare or not. Can we go through the whole season and, if he has not played, declare one?

I'm pretty sure we could. My understanding of the rule is you have five years to play four seasons, and playing in a game means you played that season (unless you have an injury redshirt, which I think is a different rule). So, if you don't play in a game, logically you'd still have four years of eligibility as long as you use them in the next four years.

OldPhiKap

12-02-2011, 02:03 PM

I'm pretty sure we could. My understanding of the rule is you have five years to play four seasons, and playing in a game means you played that season (unless you have an injury redshirt, which I think is a different rule). So, if you don't play in a game, logically you'd still have four years of eligibility as long as you use them in the next four years.

What is the reason that we would go ahead and declare MP3 a red-shirt, as opposed to waiting to see what happens? Is a declaration irrevokable for the season, and/or does it somehow open up a spot for a walk-on?

Curious.

MChambers

12-02-2011, 02:13 PM

What is the reason that we would go ahead and declare MP3 a red-shirt, as opposed to waiting to see what happens? Is a declaration irrevokable for the season, and/or does it somehow open up a spot for a walk-on?

Curious.
No need to declare or apply, except in the case of a player who has played a little and then seeks a medical redshirt.

I think the Marshall redshirt story came from his high school coach. Duke didn't declare anything, as far as I know. MP3 could still play, if needed.

oldnavy

12-02-2011, 02:21 PM

What is the reason that we would go ahead and declare MP3 a red-shirt, as opposed to waiting to see what happens? Is a declaration irrevokable for the season, and/or does it somehow open up a spot for a walk-on?

Curious.

I don't think we need to open up a spot for walk-on's. We dress 13 players I believe. I noticed at the games in Maui that several of the teams dressed as many as 17 players. I know you are limited in scholarships, but I do not think we are close to the limit (if there is one) on how many we can dress out (i.e., walk-on's).

As far as there being an advantage to make a formal declaration regarding MP3, the only thing I could imagine is that it would make a statement for future recruits. Not sure if that would be an advantage or not, I guess it would depend on the individual recruit and the position. May be an advantage for a guard that wants to have a quality big man, or might be a dissadvantage if we are going after another big... may not matter at all for all I know.

DUKIE V(A)

12-02-2011, 02:28 PM

I like what we have on this team...I think redshirting MP3 (and Murphy if he coaching staff thinks that is best for whatever the reason) is a luxury Duke can afford given the depth on this team...A high school basketball coach buddy of mine who works at the Duke camps is really high on both Murphy and MP3. He sees Murphy as a very good athlete with a lot of well developed skills...He sees MP3 as pretty athletic for his size, hard working, and smart. That said, Duke has so much depth without these two players it may make sense for their development to wait till next year to play...

I believe Silent G and Cook are going to carve out more and more time as the season progresses. They are very, very good freshmen and add ingredients to the team that others do not possess.

DukeFanSince1990

12-02-2011, 02:29 PM

Just listen to Airowe. The man is all over this.

I have learned over the years of reading these boards, if you want some real news, you search for Airowe.

CDu

12-02-2011, 02:40 PM

I guess I'm glad to see a lot of folks generating discussion on a guy that hasn't played.

I'm sure the staff has its reasons for keeping him handy on the bench.
Lets say he isn't ready- health, strength, understanding the playbook... whatever.

What difference does it make? If we have an INJ (God forbid) why not have him ready to go? Available.
Declaring the red-shirt NOW; is to what advantage? If we CAN wait, why not do so?

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Duke declare Murphy a redshirt now (just like no one is suggesting we declare Marshall a redshirt now). Those decisions can be made at the end of the season provided the player qualifies for the redshirt (i.e., doesn't play). The discussion has been with regard to whether or not he'll play sparingly this year or whether or not Duke should continue to not play him to maintain the possibility of a redshirt.

This is all assuming that if Murphy were to play he'd only play sparingly in a manner similar to Gbinije prior to the OSU game. That's the key unknown here. If Murphy comes out and proves he's ready to contribute 15-20 valuable minutes per game then he should play. But the debate has been whether it makes sense to play him sparingly or hold him out to allow the possibility of a redshirt.

budwom

12-02-2011, 04:11 PM

He's going to redshirt.

stillcrazie

12-02-2011, 04:13 PM

He's going to redshirt.

Source?

budwom

12-02-2011, 04:14 PM

Someone who most definitely knows.

oldnavy

12-02-2011, 05:05 PM

Someone who most definitely knows.

How do we know that he knows? Or, how do we know that you know that he knows? Know what I am saying?

Jim3k

12-02-2011, 07:45 PM

How do we know that he knows? Or, how do we know that you know that he knows? Know what I am saying?

Buddy has a good source. Take his word for it.

Devilsfan

12-02-2011, 09:07 PM

Seems like a new strategy. Get them in school early, before they are ready to contribute, redshirt them and teach them the game. Works even better when we come in second on a few "ready for prime time" recruits.

budwom

12-02-2011, 09:53 PM

He had thought about redshirting after leaving St. Marks a year early.
I thought he was going to end up being in the rotation, but evidently that wasn't the case.

Highlander

12-02-2011, 10:10 PM

He had thought about redshirting after leaving St. Marks a year early.
I thought he was going to end up being in the rotation, but evidently that wasn't the case.

Interesting conundrum we will be in next year. Only Miles is a senior, and while it is quite possible Mason and/or Austin decide to go pro, if they both return we have a very senior laden lineup, and not a whole lot of PT opening up for the Freshman and Sophomores, redshirt or not.

dcdevil2009

12-03-2011, 02:26 AM

Interesting conundrum we will be in next year. Only Miles is a senior, and while it is quite possible Mason and/or Austin decide to go pro, if they both return we have a very senior laden lineup, and not a whole lot of PT opening up for the Freshman and Sophomores, redshirt or not.

Not to mention scholarships. We're at 12 if Mason and Austin stay. The coaching staff probably has a better idea than we do about which three out of Mason, Austin, Parker, and Muhammad than we do at this point, but any three of those four sound great to me.

Devilsfan

12-03-2011, 09:58 AM

I believe that Murphy will be the red shirt we eventually will be happiest we recruited.

btown

12-03-2011, 04:44 PM

I believe that Murphy will be the red shirt we eventually will be happiest we recruited.

Really? If he didn't commit to Duke, wasn't Murphys "supposed" to be a McDonald's All-American? How many All-American's do you know of that don't get a single minute of play time and HAVE TO redshirt? Can you spell overrated?

Newton_14

12-03-2011, 04:52 PM

Really? If he didn't commit to Duke, wasn't Murphys "supposed" to be a McDonald's All-American? How many All-American's do you know of that don't get a single minute of play time and HAVE TO redshirt? Can you spell overrated?

You do understand Alex came in early right? I mean in fairness, he is supposed to be hooping for his high school team right now. It is no slam on him that he is not ready yet.

I think that is a bit harsh.

btown

12-03-2011, 05:03 PM

You do understand Alex came in early right? I mean in fairness, he is supposed to be hooping for his high school team right now. It is no slam on him that he is not ready yet.

I think that is a bit harsh.

Well, if he's not ready yet then why not stay in HS and dominate? Then play the McDonald's and then go to college as a starter from year one - like Rivers? I hope enveryone realizes that Murphy was only the #3 guy on his team last year behind Tarzewski and Staukas. I think he took the scholly one year early because his stock was going down. He only averaged 14 ppg all of last season. The 20 ppg you see on his bio is based on his best 5 games.

Bob Green

12-03-2011, 05:12 PM

Well, if he's not ready yet then why not stay in HS and dominate?

Are you not promoting taking a short sighted approach to development? In the long run, spending the year as a red shirt at Duke will be much more beneficial to Alex's development as a player, than returning to St. Mark's for another season of high school basketball. IMO, red shirting Alex Murphy is a very smart move.

DukieInBrasil

12-03-2011, 05:17 PM

btown

12-03-2011, 05:18 PM

According to what source? Oh that's right, unbridled speculation, which carries a lot of weight around here. BTW, Lance Thomas only averaged 15ppg as a Sr in HS. Was he overrated?

The source is me. I was at every game.

jimsumner

12-03-2011, 05:25 PM

Really? If he didn't commit to Duke, wasn't Murphys "supposed" to be a McDonald's All-American? How many All-American's do you know of that don't get a single minute of play time and HAVE TO redshirt? Can you spell overrated?

Yes, I can spell "overrated." I can also spell "the Duke coaches don't even remotely agree with your characterization."

Greg_Newton

12-03-2011, 05:30 PM

According to what source? Oh that's right, unbridled speculation, which carries a lot of weight around here. BTW, Lance Thomas only averaged 15ppg as a Sr in HS. Was he overrated?

Errrr, probably not the best example.

However, a certain Mitchell McGary averaged 12 PPG last year in his 4th-year junior season, and wasn't even always their primary post option. Now he's a consensus top 3 recruit.

If you're playing for a national powerhouse stocked with high-major talent, your numbers are a little different than if you're playing for a 3-A public school in rural Arkansas or something.

gam7

12-03-2011, 05:31 PM

btown

12-03-2011, 05:52 PM

1. I don't understand why coming to Duke a year earlier would be related in any way to his stock going down (assuming that's the case). He had the offer and he verbally accepted the offer. When he actually matriculated at duke seems unrelated to his stock.

2. I don't believe Alex would have been able to play in the McDonalds game this year because he would have been a fifth year senior. He repeated 9th grade, which is why coming to duke a year early was even an option for him.

3. The fact that you considered him to be the third best player on the team isn't too concerning to me. First, I have no idea who you are. Second, Tarczewski was ranked right around where Murphy was, so it's not shocking that some might consider him to be better. Also, last year McGary didn't even start for his high school team and is now the 2nd ranked guy in the class. None of what you say concerns me. I'm more concerned with what Alex brings from here on.

While its true that Traczewski was ranked similar to Murphy last year, the kid that was actually the leading scorer on the team was Staukas who was not even ranked in the ESPN top 100. So which is it? I Staukas underrated or (as I said) Murphy is overrated?

Coach K and his team drank the Murphy Kool-Aid way too early. And by the way don't worry about what I have to say, I've just watched every home game he played last year.

Kedsy

12-03-2011, 05:56 PM

btown

12-03-2011, 06:04 PM

Lighten up, Francis.

I don't have an axe to grind, and I really couldn't care less which way this ends up shaking out. All I want to do is clarify things for all of you that have your blinders on and refuse to see the truth. You think that coach K is infallible. Has he NEVER made a mistake? Is every kid he's ever picked the next Rivers? Murphy WILL BE a very decent player maybe in his 3rd or 4th year. But, don't hold your breath for anything sooner.

JayBean

12-03-2011, 06:11 PM

gam7

12-03-2011, 06:13 PM

While its true that Traczewski was ranked similar to Murphy last year, the kid that was actually the leading scorer on the team was Staukas who was not even ranked in the ESPN top 100. So which is it? I Staukas underrated or (as I said) Murphy is overrated?

Coach K and his team drank the Murphy Kool-Aid way too early. And by the way don't worry about what I have to say, I've just watched every home game he played last year.

I have not seen any of these guys play (and I have never even heard of Staukas before), so I really can't make an educated judgment as to who I think is overrated or underrated among those three. I would ask you though - as the leading scorer on last year's team, do you think Staukas is the "best player" on the team? And, of course, the leading scorer on a given team is not necessarily the best college prospect on that team. Who knows how good these guys will be in college. I sure don't, and I'd guess you don't either.

I don't doubt that you've seen these guys play a lot, and you clearly think Murphy will not be a very good college player, but when faced with your judgment that Coach K "drank the Murphy Kool-Aid way too early" and the judgment of the schools that had offered Murphy a scholarship by the time he had committed to Duke (including, among others - according to rivals - Arizona, Connecticut, Florida, G'town, Kansas and Syracuse), I think I'll side with all of those programs until proven otherwise.

btown

12-03-2011, 06:35 PM

I have not seen any of these guys play (and I have never even heard of Staukas before), so I really can't make an educated judgment as to who I think is overrated or underrated among those three. I would ask you though - as the leading scorer on last year's team, do you think Staukas is the "best player" on the team? And, of course, the leading scorer on a given team is not necessarily the best college prospect on that team. Who knows how good these guys will be in college. I sure don't, and I'd guess you don't either.

I don't doubt that you've seen these guys play a lot, and you clearly think Murphy will not be a very good college player, but when faced with your judgment that Coach K "drank the Murphy Kool-Aid way too early" and the judgment of the schools that had offered Murphy a scholarship by the time he had committed to Duke (including, among others - according to rivals - Arizona, Connecticut, Florida, G'town, Kansas and Syracuse), I think I'll side with all of those programs until proven otherwise.

Everybody (and I mean absolutely everybody) ranks kids not by their CURRENT basketball skills FIRST, but rather on their height/athleticism and the future potential of being great. It doesn't hurt that your dad played in the NBA and is in everyone's ear. Every coach thinks that because they're great coaches that they can mould a decent player into a great player EVERY SINGLE TIME. A little too much ego I think. For example, although Shaq was one of the greatest players of all time, NOBODY could ever teach him how to shoot a free throw (and they spent hundreds of thousands of dollars trying).

Here's my honest take on Murphy. He is long, he is athletic, he will be a good (not great) D1 player eventually. When he's left alone he can knock down threes and on a bad close out he can get by his defender and score. Being 6'9'', even though he's not quick on his feet, he can defend very well.

What he won't be able to do: 1) Dribble by the defence. 2) Hit contested outside shots on any regular basis. 3) Create his own shot. 4) Create for others (anybody can make the occasional pass). 5) Be a difference maker in a game (Like Singler).

_Gary

12-03-2011, 06:42 PM

Murphy WILL BE a very decent player maybe in his 3rd or 4th year. But, don't hold your breath for anything sooner.

I don't have a horse in this race either (I trust K and the staff to make the best decision with Alex) but... I could have sworn we kept hearing reports (supposedly from reliable witnesses) that Alex was challenging Andre for the starting 3 spot. Unless that was all baloney, I'd love to see him play this year. We can absolutely use another option, especially one involving some height, at the 3 in my opinion.

btown

12-03-2011, 06:48 PM

I don't have a horse in this race either (I trust K and the staff to make the best decision with Alex) but... I could have sworn we kept hearing reports (supposedly from reliable witnesses) that Alex was challenging Andre for the starting 3 spot. Unless that was all baloney, I'd love to see him play this year. We can absolutely use another option, especially one involving some height, at the 3 in my opinion.

Well then you have your answer from the coaching staff don't you? Has Murphy seen a minute yet?

_Gary

12-03-2011, 06:53 PM

Well then you have your answer from the coaching staff don't you? Has Murphy seen a minute yet?

So you must believe the reports were all baloney then, right? After all, has Coach K ever redshirted a player who was going to be a starter, or even challenge for a starting role, that year? I don't believe so.

btown

12-03-2011, 06:55 PM

So you must believe the reports were all baloney then, right? After all, has Coach K ever redshirted a player who was going to be a starter, or even challenge for a starting role, that year? I don't believe so.

BINGO has been called!

jimsumner

12-03-2011, 07:12 PM

BINGO has been called!

btown. At this point you've made 11 posts on this board, all on this thread, all seemingly for the purpose of dissing an injured freshman, who hasn't actually played a second in a real game. You claim to have seen all of his games last season and have managed to throw in extraneous digs at Murphy's father, Mike Krzyzewski and all the posters here with blinders on.

Call me paranoid, but I sense an agenda here.

I'm pretty sure I'm willing to trust the coaching staff's viewpoints on Murphy's long-range ability to positively impact Duke's basketball program.

btown

12-03-2011, 07:32 PM

btown. At this point you've made 11 posts on this board, all on this thread, all seemingly for the purpose of dissing an injured freshman, who hasn't actually played a second in a real game. You claim to have seen all of his games last season and have managed to throw in extraneous digs at Murphy's father, Mike Krzyzewski and all the posters here with blinders on.

Call me paranoid, but I sense an agenda here.

I'm pretty sure I'm willing to trust the coaching staff's viewpoints on Murphy's long-range ability to positively impact Duke's basketball program.

Who's throwing digs at anybody? If you know the Murphy family at all, you know they WORK the crowd, and this includes the press and the coaches. I'm stating facts, not just throwing crap out there. Everybody knows coach K is the greatest of all time, but he is human too.

I will bow out of this conversation. I don't want to cause problems here, and have not axe to grind. I just wanted to add some reality to the Murphy frenzy because I happen to have some inside knowledge. And I have not seen every game, just every home game. Good-bye and good luck to you and Duke.

sagegrouse

12-03-2011, 07:34 PM

Who's throwing digs at anybody? If you know the Murphy family at all, you know they WORK the crowd, and this includes the press and the coaches. I'm stating facts, not just throwing crap out there. Everybody knows coach K is the greatest of all time, but he is human too.

I will bow out of this conversation. I don't want to cause problems here, and have not axe to grind. I just wanted to add some reality to the Murphy frenzy because I happen to have some inside knowledge. And I have not seen every game, just every home game. Good-bye and good luck to you and Duke.

If the boldfaced sentence is a fact, what's an opinion?

sage

Devilsfan

12-03-2011, 08:12 PM

kcduke75

12-03-2011, 08:19 PM

If the boldfaced sentence is a fact, what's an opinion?

sage

I wish Ryan redshirted

whatever

MChambers

12-03-2011, 08:21 PM

Who's throwing digs at anybody? If you know the Murphy family at all, you know they WORK the crowd, and this includes the press and the coaches. I'm stating facts, not just throwing crap out there. Everybody knows coach K is the greatest of all time, but he is human too.

I will bow out of this conversation. I don't want to cause problems here, and have not axe to grind. I just wanted to add some reality to the Murphy frenzy because I happen to have some inside knowledge. And I have not seen every game, just every home game. Good-bye and good luck to you and Duke.
Don't really think you contributed anything worthwhile. See ya.

Saratoga2

12-03-2011, 08:28 PM

In regards to what is gained and lost by coming in early and redshirting, it can be a net gain for the player.

1) Unless he is in an unbelievable situation, he will be going against better competition in practice at Duke than at his high school.
Here, Alex and Marshal should develop much faster with the level of competition they will be facing daily.

2) Additionally, they can work on skills that are needed for the college game. I'm not an expert by any means, but I have heard plenty
of smarter people say that the college game is very different than the high school game. Getting an extra year to study it and learn has to be valuable. Also, working with our coaching staff can't hurt too much.

3) If Duke should have a good chance at the end of the year for a national championship, they can let go of the redshirt for a chance at
getting a ring. Zeller did just that his freshmen year.

Now, I agree, they are giving up some accolades and probably a higher ranking in the recruiting lists. But if they plan on playing professionally, I don't think that stuff will matter as much as what they can produce.

Honestly, we haven't seen Alex in a single meaningful game as yet. In my view, his competition for the Small forward position are Andre and Michael. Andre certainly has been inconsistent and may remain so. Michael has gotten a very limited number of minutes to show himself. Why not just let these guys compete for the small forward position, giving each equal minutes and see who really does the best. The other four positions are strong and for the next few games we could probably afford to have Michael and Alex get 10 to 15 minutes each. I can't see how we can form opinions without every seeing these guys in game situations. We seem to have a lot of opinions that are not backed up by any facts.

MChambers

12-03-2011, 08:31 PM

Honestly, we haven't seen Alex in a single meaningful game as yet. In my view, his competition for the Small forward position are Andre and Michael. Andre certainly has been inconsistent and may remain so. Michael has gotten a very limited number of minutes to show himself. Why not just let these guys compete for the small forward position, giving each equal minutes and see who really does the best. The other four positions are strong and for the next few games we could probably afford to have Michael and Alex get 10 to 15 minutes each. I can't see how we can form opinions without every seeing these guys in game situations. We seem to have a lot of opinions that are not backed up by any facts.

We sure do. Luckily, the coaches see these guys in practice and make playing time decisions based on what they see. I'd like to see more of Alex and Michael, but I have faith in our coaches.

mkline09

12-03-2011, 09:06 PM

MCFinARL

12-03-2011, 09:11 PM

Redshirting is not bad. I wish Dre had redshirted. When you give up part of your high schooling to enter college redshirting is probably a good thing. But when you graduate after four years of high school and aren't ready to help a team that is not deep at your position and you accept a $55,000+ scholarship It makes me wonder why? What's wrong with going to a juco?

Well, this is just a crazy idea, but maybe the fact that you could get a way better education at Duke (oh, that) while also learning a lot more about basketball could have something to do with it. Also, A year at juco is a year of eligibility lost; a redshirt year isn't.

Devilsfan

12-03-2011, 09:49 PM

Alex redshirting is fine with me. I guess I'm not sold on the other player ever being a star at Duke. But let's have faith in the staff that offered and signed him. They have a pretty good track record.

DUKIE V(A)

12-03-2011, 11:12 PM

Whether he redshirts or not...Murphy is going to be a very good player at Duke...

Kids like Murphy, who attend private schools with elite basketball programs, will score far fewer points per game in HS than if they attended their respective public schools, because they are playing with so many other Division I players and need to share the ball. That does not make them any less of High Major Division I players. His 14 + ppg as a HS Jr. does not worry me a bit...I think Mason averaged less than that as a fifth year HS Sr. Stats do not tell the whole story.

The difference between someone like Dawkins vs. Murphy redshirting is night and day. In 2010, we were not nearly as deep (even though that team was better). We badly needed Dawkins for depth at guard (and likely would not have won the National Title without him). Without Dawkins, we had no margin for error and no shooting off the bench. We did not have the luxury of giving him a "free" year to develop. This year, we are very deep at Murphy's position(s) so he is not as necessary to play this year. This does not make him any less of a good and valuable player in the long run. If he is not a significant upgrade over Dawkins, Slient G, Hairston, etc. why waste a year of eligibility with spot duty? Redshirting him and MP3 is a huge luxury given our depth this season. In many other years, even with better teams, they would not have been redshirted. I believe they and the team will be better for it in the long run.

Kedsy

12-03-2011, 11:32 PM

I don't have an axe to grind, and I really couldn't care less which way this ends up shaking out. All I want to do is clarify things for all of you that have your blinders on and refuse to see the truth. You think that coach K is infallible. Has he NEVER made a mistake? Is every kid he's ever picked the next Rivers? Murphy WILL BE a very decent player maybe in his 3rd or 4th year. But, don't hold your breath for anything sooner.

I don't have a strong opinion on any of that stuff. I never saw Murphy play in high school.

What I do believe is that your posts on this subject are harsher than is generally tolerated on this board. You can make your point without being a jerk about it, right?

Kedsy

12-03-2011, 11:37 PM

I wish Dre had redshirted.

Well, if you got your wish, we might not have won the national championship. Speaking only for myself, I'm awfully glad Andre was available to hit those threes against Baylor.

gumbomoop

12-03-2011, 11:41 PM

I have a question. Can Murphy actually redshirt? I was under the impression that because he played in the exhibition games that he wouldn't be eligible to redshirt. I thought I had heard that discussion come up with regard to Marshall Plumlee.

See Bluedog's posts #s 7 & 9, this thread. The short answer, crediting Bluedog's good research, is: yes, Murphy could still redshirt. Doesn't mean he will redshirt.

We seem to know that Marshall Plumlee will redshirt, absent injuries to any of our bigs.

We seem not to know whether Alex Murphy will redshirt.

Newton_14

12-03-2011, 11:49 PM

Well, if he's not ready yet then why not stay in HS and dominate? Then play the McDonald's and then go to college as a starter from year one - like Rivers? I hope enveryone realizes that Murphy was only the #3 guy on his team last year behind Tarzewski and Staukas. I think he took the scholly one year early because his stock was going down. He only averaged 14 ppg all of last season. The 20 ppg you see on his bio is based on his best 5 games.

The source is me. I was at every game.

While its true that Traczewski was ranked similar to Murphy last year, the kid that was actually the leading scorer on the team was Staukas who was not even ranked in the ESPN top 100. So which is it? I Staukas underrated or (as I said) Murphy is overrated?

Coach K and his team drank the Murphy Kool-Aid way too early. And by the way don't worry about what I have to say, I've just watched every home game he played last year.

Everybody (and I mean absolutely everybody) ranks kids not by their CURRENT basketball skills FIRST, but rather on their height/athleticism and the future potential of being great. It doesn't hurt that your dad played in the NBA and is in everyone's ear. Every coach thinks that because they're great coaches that they can mould a decent player into a great player EVERY SINGLE TIME. A little too much ego I think. For example, although Shaq was one of the greatest players of all time, NOBODY could ever teach him how to shoot a free throw (and they spent hundreds of thousands of dollars trying).

Here's my honest take on Murphy. He is long, he is athletic, he will be a good (not great) D1 player eventually. When he's left alone he can knock down threes and on a bad close out he can get by his defender and score. Being 6'9'', even though he's not quick on his feet, he can defend very well.

What he won't be able to do: 1) Dribble by the defence. 2) Hit contested outside shots on any regular basis. 3) Create his own shot. 4) Create for others (anybody can make the occasional pass). 5) Be a difference maker in a game (Like Singler).

Ok, I will play along. Who is this Staukas kid, and what is your honest take on him? Seems odd a kid who led a team like that in scoring is not even ranked in the Top 100. You seem quite disturbed that Alex was rated above Staukas, and insinuate that Staukas ranking or lack there of is not based on his current skills. So what would be a fair ranking, in your opinion, of Staukas, and Alex?

Kedsy

12-03-2011, 11:54 PM

Ok, I will play along. Who is this Staukas kid, and what is your honest take on him? Seems odd a kid who led a team like that in scoring is not even ranked in the Top 100. You seem quite disturbed that Alex was rated above Staukas, and insinuate that Staukas ranking or lack there of is not based on his current skills. So what would be a fair ranking, in your opinion, of Staukas, and Alex?

Well, for one thing, his name is Stauskas, not Staukas. He's apparently committed to Michigan. He's #79 in the RSCI.

MCFinARL

12-04-2011, 12:55 PM

Well, if you got your wish, we might not have won the national championship. Speaking only for myself, I'm awfully glad Andre was available to hit those threes against Baylor.

Amen to this.

Devilsfan

12-04-2011, 08:17 PM

Actually I really am glad that Dre played early. I was really tempering my thoughts on one of our redshirts.

jjasper0729

12-05-2011, 02:46 PM

I have a question. Can Murphy actually redshirt? I was under the impression that because he played in the exhibition games that he wouldn't be eligible to redshirt. I thought I had heard that discussion come up with regard to Marshall Plumlee.

This actually came up with one of Notre Dame's players. Since Murphy is a freshman, he could play in exhibition games and still take a redshirt this year (non-injury). I recall reading that Coach Brey had interpreted the rule incorrectly with his player (Abromaitis?). So freshman can play in exhibition games and redshirt that same season. After that, they are not allowed to play in exhibition games and be able to take a non-injury redshirt.

Here's a quick spiel from ESPN:

Basically, the story -- as announced by Notre Dame athletics in a release Tuesday morning -- goes a little something like this: As a sophomore in 2008-09, Abromaitis played in two exhibition games. He then sat the rest of the exhibition season so Notre Dame could preserve his full year of eligibility, a little loophole coaches happily use for redshirt freshmen frequently. Unfortunately, the NCAA doesn't allow you to pull that move with sophomores, something Notre Dame coach Mike Brey admitted to flat-out flubbing.

dukedoc

12-11-2011, 01:46 PM

I must have missed this, but Zags makes it sound like a redshirt is likely. LINK (http://www.zagsblog.com/2011/12/10/dukes-alex-murphy-ready-for-redshirt/)

Newton_14

12-11-2011, 02:01 PM

I must have missed this, but Zags makes it sound like a redshirt is likely. LINK (http://www.zagsblog.com/2011/12/10/dukes-alex-murphy-ready-for-redshirt/)

It would appear so. This sounds crazy, but I really think the staff did not understand the rule about freshman/exhibitions/redshirts. They purposely held Marshall out of exhibition play (per Jim Sumner) in case they wanted to redshirt him. However, they played Murphy in both exhibitions. Now, it appears Alex will redshirt.

I have to believe, that if the staff fully understood the rule, they would have played Marshall in both exhibitions, both to give him experience and to evaluate.

Just a bizarre situation the way things played out.

For those that don't know, Freshman can play in the exhibitions, and then take a non-medical redshirt. Soph/Jr/Sr's cannot. If they play in the exhibitions, they can only apply for a medical redshirt in the case of an injury. Also, in the case of non-medical redshirts, there isn't an application, or announcement to make. You simply do not play them. You could void the shirt by playing them in any game all the way to the very last game of the season.

Bluedog

12-11-2011, 02:09 PM

This sounds crazy, but I really think the staff did not understand the rule about freshman/exhibitions/redshirts. They purposely held Marshall out of exhibition play (per Jim Sumner) in case they wanted to redshirt him. However, they played Murphy in both exhibitions. Now, it appears Alex will redshirt.

I have to believe, that if the staff fully understood the rule, they would have played Marshall in both exhibitions, both to give him experience and to evaluate.

Maybe, but it's also possible that the plan was to not redshirt Alex at first, but after he suffered a concussion and was held out for a while, they re-evaluated the situation and decided it was the best course of action. As for not playing Marshall in the exhibitions, they may have simply wanted those two games to further fine-tune the expected lineups as the schedule was quite challenging from the beginning. Thus, they didn't want to put somebody in who they knew wasn't going to be on the court so as to have the team as prepared as possible from game 1. Obviously, we don't know for sure, though.

Newton_14

12-11-2011, 02:29 PM

Maybe, but it's also possible that the plan was to not redshirt Alex at first, but after he suffered a concussion and was held out for a while, they re-evaluated the situation and decided it was the best course of action. As for not playing Marshall in the exhibitions, they may have simply wanted those two games to further fine-tune the expected lineups as the schedule was quite challenging from the beginning. Thus, they didn't want to put somebody in who they knew wasn't going to be on the court so as to have the team as prepared as possible from game 1. Obviously, we don't know for sure, though.

I agree with you that they originally did not intend to redshirt Murphy. No argument there at all. Just a case of the situation changing due to his play in the exhibitions, and then the concussion.

I just think they definitely would have played Marshall if they were clear on the rule. Would love to hear from Jim again on this.

El_Diablo

12-11-2011, 02:51 PM

I agree with you that they originally did not intend to redshirt Murphy. No argument there at all. Just a case of the situation changing due to his play in the exhibitions, and then the concussion.

I just think they definitely would have played Marshall if they were clear on the rule. Would love to hear from Jim again on this.

But Marshall played in China and Dubai, so I have to assume that the coaches knew the rule that exhibitions were okay if they were considering a redshirt for him.

Perhaps they chose to sit him against Shaw and Bellarmine because they knew they were going the redshirt-option route and wanted to maximize the minutes for those who they expected to play this season, but they were still thinking Murphy might play this year so they gave him some PT, only deciding after the fact (maybe when he got the concussion) that they would go the redshirt-option route with him too.

tommy

12-11-2011, 04:54 PM

Maybe, but it's also possible that the plan was to not redshirt Alex at first, but after he suffered a concussion and was held out for a while, they re-evaluated the situation and decided it was the best course of action. As for not playing Marshall in the exhibitions, they may have simply wanted those two games to further fine-tune the expected lineups as the schedule was quite challenging from the beginning. Thus, they didn't want to put somebody in who they knew wasn't going to be on the court so as to have the team as prepared as possible from game 1. Obviously, we don't know for sure, though.

Is it also possible that the idea of reshirting Murphy gained momentum as the perception that we weren't going to get Tony Parker grew internally, if in fact it has been growing? Without Parker, we have a one man 2012 class. Even though he and Murphy play different positions, is it possible the staff would want to rebalance the classes a little in the hopes we'd have a more physically mature Murphy around for longer, in light of the (perceived) likelihood that we're going to be awfully light on the inside after this year? And Murphy was originally a 2012 kid, after all.

ThePublisher

12-12-2011, 09:19 AM

We'll its good to know that when I first mentioned Murphy redshirting, and was basically told I was crazy by a few posters, I was actually right on track.

Between Murphy and Gbinije there is only so much time to go around. At this point Silent G is further along defensively, so that must be of more value to Krzyzewski. The year of practicing with the guys will do wonders for Murphy. Also having a class that is Sulimon, Murphy and Parker (maybe Bazz) will be excellent!

m g

12-12-2011, 10:19 AM

The fact that Murphy started the first preseason game suggests to me that they have at least been strongly considering it since that time. I was unsure why they did it at first (spectacular practice play?), but since he hasn't seen the court in the regular season it makes a lot more sense now.

mr. synellinden

12-12-2011, 10:32 AM

Also having a class that is Sulimon, Murphy and Parker (maybe Bazz) will be excellent!

And MPIII.

Bluedog

12-12-2011, 11:06 AM

At this point Silent G is further along defensively, so that must be of more value to Krzyzewski.

How have you been able to assess that? Have you had the chance to watch practices or is it based on the exhibition games? This question isn't supposed to come off in a mocking tone, by the way. I'm sincerely curious as to if you have some inside info because based on my viewing, the sample size of Silent G and Murphy isn't large enough to decide who is a better defender at this point. When I watched the exhibition games in China, I actually thought Murphy was the second best (behind Austin) at taking his defender one-on-one and getting to the rim, albeit again a very small sample size. I'll give you props for mentioning the possibility of Murphy redshirting though earlier than most.

dcar1985

12-12-2011, 11:27 AM

How have you been able to assess that? Have you had the chance to watch practices or is it based on the exhibition games? This question isn't supposed to come off in a mocking tone, by the way. I'm sincerely curious as to if you have some inside info because based on my viewing, the sample size of Silent G and Murphy isn't large enough to decide who is a better defender at this point. When I watched the exhibition games in China, I actually thought Murphy was the second best (behind Austin) at taking his defender one-on-one and getting to the rim, albeit again a very small sample size. I'll give you props for mentioning the possibility of Murphy redshirting though earlier than most.

Sounds like your talking offense and not defense...we've seen alot more of Mike this season seeing as Alex hasn't played a minute yet and Mikes offense hasn't come around yet so I guess the assumption could be made that what is getting him his minutes albeit few is his defensive abilities. I agree though that Mike is superior as far as being an on ball defender....I think Mike has the potential to be big time player in the next year or two,

Bluedog

12-12-2011, 11:43 AM

Sounds like your talking offense and not defense...we've seen alot more of Mike this season seeing as Alex hasn't played a minute yet and Mikes offense hasn't come around yet so I guess the assumption could be made that what is getting him his minutes albeit few is his defensive abilities. I agree though that Mike is superior as far as being an on ball defender....I think Mike has the potential to be big time player in the next year or two,

Right, my post had two unrelated parts - sorry for any confusion. I personally haven't seen enough of Murphy and Silent G to say who is the better defender. My second part was simply to say that it looked like Murphy had some nice one-on-one offensive moves, but that wasn't meant to suggest that he's superior offensively to Silent G overall since, again, the sample size is too small as I haven't watched practices. I just meant to suggest that Murphy's offensive arsenal made a positive impression on me in a short time (he didn't really get that many minutes in the exhibition games either though). At least, I liked his aggressiveness (on "O"). I think both Mike and Murphy have the potential to be really solid players for us over their careers - athletic, tall, wing players are something that Coach K has obviously been known to utilize well.

meloveduke

12-12-2011, 12:13 PM

we've seen alot more of Mike this season seeing as Alex hasn't played a minute yet and Mikes offense hasn't come around yet so I guess the assumption could be made that what is getting him his minutes albeit few is his defensive abilities.

I thought the only reason he has not played is because he got hurt......

dcar1985

12-12-2011, 12:44 PM

I thought the only reason he has not played is because he got hurt......

I think its been blown up on the board as a reason he's not playing by people that are super high on Alex but from everything I heard when it happened and now it was only a mild concussion and he was held out of practice as a precaution....he was cleared to play while the team was in Maui, I understand that there wasn't alot of practice time so maybe he hasn't had a chance to earn the minutes back but the injury happened back in early Nov. before the 1st game so im not sure thats an legit excuse either.

Matches

12-12-2011, 01:40 PM

I think its been blown up on the board as a reason he's not playing by people that are super high on Alex but from everything I heard when it happened and now it was only a mild concussion and he was held out of practice as a precaution....he was cleared to play while the team was in Maui, I understand that there wasn't alot of practice time so maybe he hasn't had a chance to earn the minutes back but the injury happened back in early Nov. before the 1st game so im not sure thats an legit excuse either.

Concussions are funky things though. I guess if he's cleared for practice he is recovering appropriately, but the staff may be hedging its bets against the (hopefully unlikely) possibility that he experiences symptoms in the weeks or months to come. Sometimes it seems like folks bounce back from concussions in a week's time; other times the symptoms linger for months, and there's not much rhyme or reason to predicting how people will react.

bob blue devil

12-12-2011, 05:06 PM

Concussions are funky things though. I guess if he's cleared for practice he is recovering appropriately, but the staff may be hedging its bets against the (hopefully unlikely) possibility that he experiences symptoms in the weeks or months to come. Sometimes it seems like folks bounce back from concussions in a week's time; other times the symptoms linger for months, and there's not much rhyme or reason to predicting how people will react.

if that scenario did play out (he plays, but then shows symptoms and should discontinue playing/practicing), would he be eligible for a medical red shirt?

Kedsy

12-12-2011, 05:13 PM

if that scenario did play out (he plays, but then shows symptoms and should discontinue playing/practicing), would he be eligible for a medical red shirt?

What does it matter? He gets one redshirt year, whether it's due to injury or otherwise.

OZZIE4DUKE

12-12-2011, 05:48 PM

What does it matter? He gets one redshirt year, whether it's due to injury or otherwise.
I don't believe that right. A player gets one redshirt year (and the limitations for upper classmen playing in exhibition games was discussed long ago), but if a player is injured and has played less than 20% of his team's games, he can then get a medical redshirt. IF the player has already taken a regular redshirt season, then the player/team has to petition the NCAA to grant the extra year. Kenny Anunike, who will be back to play football next year as a fifth year senior, is actually hoping to get a 6th year of eligibility through the petition route. With the NCAA, there are never any guarantees going in.

bob blue devil

12-12-2011, 06:08 PM

What does it matter? He gets one redshirt year, whether it's due to injury or otherwise.

let me clarify:
- i don't know whether this is accurate, but someone on this board suggested Murphy is practicing
- that Murphy is practicing, but not playing, led others to speculate he is not playing because the staff is intending to red shirt him (since he's practicing, health risk is likely not the primary driver of him not playing)
- the suggestion was then made (unless I misinterpreted) that the staff was possibly holding Murphy out of games (but not practice) because of fear he'll have a setback and, if he played in games, he wouldn't be able to red shirt
- to that, i was asking whether the setback would trigger eligibility for a medical red shirt
- why would i ask that? because if he would be eligible for a medical red shirt, then the argument the staff is holding him back for fear of a set back and the loss of a season that might be better served red shirting doesn't hold water.

is that helpful?

Kedsy

12-12-2011, 09:10 PM

I don't believe that right. A player gets one redshirt year (and the limitations for upper classmen playing in exhibition games was discussed long ago), but if a player is injured and has played less than 20% of his team's games, he can then get a medical redshirt. IF the player has already taken a regular redshirt season, then the player/team has to petition the NCAA to grant the extra year. Kenny Anunike, who will be back to play football next year as a fifth year senior, is actually hoping to get a 6th year of eligibility through the petition route. With the NCAA, there are never any guarantees going in.

Yes, but the reason you have to petition the NCAA is because the general rule is you have to finish four years during a five year period. I said what does it matter, because an injury redshirt or a non-injury redshirt would have the same effect on Alex's eventual eligibility.

Having said that...

let me clarify:
- to that, i was asking whether the setback would trigger eligibility for a medical red shirt
- why would i ask that? because if he would be eligible for a medical red shirt, then the argument the staff is holding him back for fear of a set back and the loss of a season that might be better served red shirting doesn't hold water.

is that helpful?

Yes, thank you. Now I understand your question, and I agree with you.

mgtr

12-19-2011, 02:10 PM

So, the answer to the question that many are trying to ask about Murphy (see recent closed thread) is that we don't know Murphy's status. Well, other than the obvious -- he hasn't played in the regular season (yet).

JMarley50

12-19-2011, 04:38 PM

Yes, but the reason you have to petition the NCAA is because the general rule is you have to finish four years during a five year period. I said what does it matter, because an injury redshirt or a non-injury redshirt would have the same effect on Alex's eventual eligibility.

This was always my understanding of the traditional redshirt vs. medical redshirt. IF Alex were to take a traditional redshirt this season (even if he qualified for an injury redshirt), then he would still have at least 4 years to play. IF he was to get a significant injury after that (say preseason as a 5th year senior) he could then petition the NCAA for a medical redshirt and get a 6th year to play his 4th. But if he declared a medical redshirt this season then he would not qualify for another redshirt year after that, so he would only have a max of 4 years remaining regardless of future injuries or hardships.

If my understanding is correct (I'm not saying it is) then it would actually make a difference which redshirt he declared this season. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!

devildeac

12-19-2011, 10:58 PM

Newton_14

12-19-2011, 11:48 PM

On the call in show after the game tonight, one of the questions to Coach Capel was about Murphy and the 'shirt or no 'shirt. He said they were still in the process of evaluation and no decision had been made yet.

I was listening and heard that as well DD. Thanks for posting. Interesting that the staff have not made their minds up on this one yet. If they burn the shirt and play him at some point, he will have missed value time against some of the lighter opponents to get on the job training so to speak, as well as the opportunity to build chemistry with his teammates in game conditions.

Just strange the way this has played out. However, with the way Andre is playing, and with Gbinije coming along nicely, K may have the luxury of sticking with the shirt, and having a very prepared redshirt freshman ready to go next year. Also, spending this year as a redshirt going through all the practices, and working on his body in the Duke weight program is a much bigger benefit than playing another year of high school ball. Same thing on the academic side. Alex will be a much better player next year than he would have been had he played that extra year in high school. Basically puts him back in the class he would have been in, but K ends up getting a better version of Murphy than he would have. It greatly helps the 2012 recruiting class. Same story with MP3 as well.

hustleplays

12-20-2011, 12:00 AM

I was listening and heard that as well DD. Thanks for posting. Interesting that the staff have not made their minds up on this one yet. If they burn the shirt and play him at some point, he will have missed value time against some of the lighter opponents to get on the job training so to speak, as well as the opportunity to build chemistry with his teammates in game conditions.

Just strange the way this has played out. However, with the way Andre is playing, and with Gbinije coming along nicely, K may have the luxury of sticking with the shirt, and having a very prepared redshirt freshman ready to go next year. Also, spending this year as a redshirt going through all the practices, and working on his body in the Duke weight program is a much bigger benefit than playing another year of high school ball. Same thing on the academic side. Alex will be a much better player next year than he would have been had he played that extra year in high school. Basically puts him back in the class he would have been in, but K ends up getting a better version of Murphy than he would have. It greatly helps the 2012 recruiting class. Same story with MP3 as well.

Well, I'm not so sure that it's simply indecision on the part of our expert coaching staff. They don't have to definitively declare to the public what their actual intentions are. Keeps all options open, just in case. These are the games that Alex would be playing if this were not a "intend to redshirt Alex" year. Makes great sense, given who we already have playing.

Kedsy

12-20-2011, 01:57 AM

This was always my understanding of the traditional redshirt vs. medical redshirt. IF Alex were to take a traditional redshirt this season (even if he qualified for an injury redshirt), then he would still have at least 4 years to play. IF he was to get a significant injury after that (say preseason as a 5th year senior) he could then petition the NCAA for a medical redshirt and get a 6th year to play his 4th. But if he declared a medical redshirt this season then he would not qualify for another redshirt year after that, so he would only have a max of 4 years remaining regardless of future injuries or hardships.

If my understanding is correct (I'm not saying it is) then it would actually make a difference which redshirt he declared this season. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!

I'm pretty sure there have been instances where a player had two season-ending injuries and he successfully petitioned the NCAA for a 6th year to play his 4th. I don't think there's much if any difference between an injury redshirt and a regular redshirt in this regard.

Bluedevil114

12-20-2011, 06:28 AM

I'm pretty sure there have been instances where a player had two season-ending injuries and he successfully petitioned the NCAA for a 6th year to play his 4th. I don't think there's much if any difference between an injury redshirt and a regular redshirt in this regard.

Robbie Hummel come on down.

Gorilla

12-20-2011, 08:13 AM

It's pretTy clear that Murphy is red shirting.

Newton_14

12-20-2011, 08:15 AM

It's pretTy clear that Murphy is red shirting.

So, you feel Coach Capel was being dishonest with his answer?

lotusland

12-20-2011, 08:54 AM

So, you feel Coach Capel was being dishonest with his answer?

I agree with Gorilla. Why would the staff not give AM some burn in recent games if they weren't planning a red-shirt? It is true that we can still play him if an injury occurs that would change his probability of playing a significant role and there is no need for the staff to commit and remove that possibility. So Capel is not lying by saying they haven't made a final decision because they are reserving the option to play him later if needed. I think it is evident that, unless something changes like and injury to a player currently in the rotation, AM will not play this year. There is always a degree of politics to announcements. If you're an assistant coach, you are not going to make an announcement in that type or forum without prior approval from the Head Coach.

ChillinDuke

12-20-2011, 09:02 AM

So, you feel Coach Capel was being dishonest with his answer?

I don't think it's a question of dishonesty. People in power and with inside knowledge have to say things certain ways. They have to be PC. You don't hear Bernanke explicitly saying the European debt situation is a "bleeping" disaster.

Similarly, a high profile college basketball assistant coach doesn't want to stir a pot at the moment so he says, "We are evaluating the situation." It's simple, unarguable, and vague. Perfect response.

So, I think dishonest is far from accurate. Savvy. Experienced. I would start with those.

The point I'm making is I, too, believe that Alex Murphy is likely to be redshirted at this point. To say he won't be redshirted seems to go against the public information we have at this point. Could there be information we aren't privy to that refutes this? Of course! But why even bring up such an obvious point?

Alex's not playing last night speaks loudly to me. And Coach Capel's response does too, if for nothing more than his lack of rebuttal.

- Chillin

EDIT - Beat me to it, Lotus. You win this round.

Mike Corey

12-20-2011, 09:05 AM

"Look at what they do, not what they say."

-Grandma Corey

Newton_14

12-20-2011, 09:14 AM

I agree with Gorilla. Why would the staff not give AM some burn in recent games if they weren't planning a red-shirt? It is true that we can still play him if an injury occurs that would change his probability of playing a significant role and there is no need for the staff to commit and remove that possibility. So Capel is not lying by saying they haven't made a final decision because they are reserving the option to play him later if needed. I think it is evident that, unless something changes like and injury to a player currently in the rotation, AM will not play this year. There is always a degree of politics to announcements. If you're an assistant coach, you are not going to make an announcement in that type or forum without prior approval from the Head Coach.

You misunderstood me. They are holding him out so they can redshirt him if that is what they want to do. However, Capel said they were very much still evaluating the situation and had not made a final decision. Not sure why that's so hard to believe. Everything is a not a cloak and dagger conspiracy.

They are 100% looking at possibly redshirting him, which is why he has not played. If something changes, like an injury or something, or improvement on Alex's part to where they think he can help the team this year, they will burn the shirt.

Capel was very forthright in his answer last night. He did not dance around the question or use "politically correct" language. He just without hesitation answered the question directly.

If nothing changes, he likely will not play anymore this year, but we won't know the final outcome for awhile.

OZZIE4DUKE

12-20-2011, 09:16 AM

I agree with Gorilla. Why would the staff not give AM some burn in recent games if they weren't planning a red-shirt? It is true that we can still play him if an injury occurs that would change his probability of playing a significant role and there is no need for the staff to commit and remove that possibility. So Capel is not lying by saying they haven't made a final decision because they are reserving the option to play him later if needed. I think it is evident that, unless something changes like and injury to a player currently in the rotation, AM will not play this year. There is always a degree of politics to announcements. If you're an assistant coach, you are not going to make an announcement in that type or forum without prior approval from the Head Coach.
I think the situation with Murphy is somewhat analogous to Josh Snead's in football, although Snead's (Kyrie Toe) injury was more serious and took longer to heal. The coaches wanted to redshirt Snead, unless injuries dictated that they needed him once he was healthy (say the last three or four games). But by the time he was healthy our other running backs (Desmond Scott primarily) had also healed and our season record wasn't what we had hoped, and there was no point in burning the redshirt. I would think that if everyone stays healthy, Alex will redshirt. If we suffer a long term injury later in the season @ Murphy's position (PLEASE NO!) and we need his talents, then he'll play.

Newton_14

12-20-2011, 09:21 AM

I don't think it's a question of dishonesty. People in power and with inside knowledge have to say things certain ways. They have to be PC. You don't hear Bernanke explicitly saying the European debt situation is a "bleeping" disaster.

Similarly, a high profile college basketball assistant coach doesn't want to stir a pot at the moment so he says, "We are evaluating the situation." It's simple, unarguable, and vague. Perfect response.

So, I think dishonest is far from accurate. Savvy. Experienced. I would start with those.

The point I'm making is I, too, believe that Alex Murphy is likely to be redshirted at this point. To say he won't be redshirted seems to go against the public information we have at this point. Could there be information we aren't privy to that refutes this? Of course! But why even bring up such an obvious point?

Alex's not playing last night speaks loudly to me. And Coach Capel's response does too, if for nothing more than his lack of rebuttal.

- Chillin

EDIT - Beat me to it, Lotus. You win this round.

Except, there is nothing to "win". It's not a contest. DevilDeac and I heard the question and answer on the post-game show with Capel, and were simply sharing the information with the board, and somehow that gets turned around into us being naive and not seeing the grand conspiracy being played by the staff with Alex. Sometimes things are exactly as they appear, which in this case is, Alex Murphy is being held out so they can redshirt him if they decide that is best for Alex and for the team. As we move forward, the longer he goes without playing, the greater the chances are that he will sit out the season.

ChillinDuke

12-20-2011, 11:02 AM

Except, there is nothing to "win".

I was just playing around there. No one actually won anything.

and somehow that gets turned around into us being naive and not seeing the grand conspiracy being played by the staff with Alex.

That was definitely not what I meant. I don't think you or DD are naive, and this is most obviously not a grand conspiracy. I just disagree with you that there is much being decided. He didn't play in a blow-out win against a 2-9 UNCG team. That's pretty definitive to me. Sounds like me trusting the acts and you trusting the words. Just a very respectful (and nitpicky) disagreement.

Cheers, mate.

- Chillin

Indoor66

12-20-2011, 11:33 AM

Except, there is nothing to "win". It's not a contest. DevilDeac and I heard the question and answer on the post-game show with Capel, and were simply sharing the information with the board, and somehow that gets turned around into us being naive and not seeing the grand conspiracy being played by the staff with Alex. Sometimes things are exactly as they appear, which in this case is, Alex Murphy is being held out so they can redshirt him if they decide that is best for Alex and for the team. As we move forward, the longer he goes without playing, the greater the chances are that he will sit out the season.

I agree with you, Newton. Most times, what is said is what is meant. Most times, looking for hidden meanings is a waste of energy (unless a politician is speaking).

OldPhiKap

12-20-2011, 11:55 AM

I agree with you, Newton. Most times, what is said is what is meant. Most times, looking for hidden meanings is a waste of energy (unless a politician is speaking).

Anagrams for "waste of energy":

A Western Fogey
A Weeny Forgets
Teenage Fry Sow
Get On Freeways
Go Freeway Nest
Enrage Few Toys
Enrage We Softly
Ow Sargeant Fey
Estrange Few Yo
Yow Negates Ref
Negate Wry Foes
Negate Rosy Few
New Goatees Fry
Eager Few Stony
Agree Few Stony
Few Grease Tony
Sewage Fern Toy
Senate Few Orgy
Eatery Few Song
Sew Ye Frontage
Forage News Yet
Fawners Eye Tog
Eye Gown Faster
Wafers Gone Yet

I am still having trouble decyphering what you mean.

devildeac

12-20-2011, 12:37 PM

You misunderstood me. They are holding him out so they can redshirt him if that is what they want to do. However, Capel said they were very much still evaluating the situation and had not made a final decision. Not sure why that's so hard to believe. Everything is a not a cloak and dagger conspiracy.

They are 100% looking at possibly redshirting him, which is why he has not played. If something changes, like an injury or something, or improvement on Alex's part to where they think he can help the team this year, they will burn the shirt.

Capel was very forthright in his answer last night. He did not dance around the question or use "politically correct" language. He just without hesitation answered the question directly.

If nothing changes, he likely will not play anymore this year, but we won't know the final outcome for awhile.

I'll emphasize Newton's points above. Capel sounded very succinct/honest/sincere/direct in all his answers last PM with minimal "coachspeak." Ozzie and I both got that impression listening to the show last PM. We chatted with another one of our very reliable sources at halftime last PM and his comment about the "woes" of not getting Mitch and possibly (likely?) not getting TP was to say, "Hey, I heard we might get that Alex Murphy kid next year along with RS. Oh, and that young Plumlee kid looks like he'll be on the roster also next year." I'm content with that.

Jderf

12-20-2011, 01:37 PM

I agree with you, Newton. Most times, what is said is what is meant. Most times, looking for hidden meanings is a waste of energy (unless a politician is speaking).

"Unless a politician is speaking" ... in which case, listening at all is a waste of energy.

sagegrouse

12-20-2011, 02:00 PM

Anagrams for "waste of energy":

A Western Fogey
A Weeny Forgets
Teenage Fry Sow
Get On Freeways
Go Freeway Nest
Enrage Few Toys
Enrage We Softly
Ow Sargeant Fey
Estrange Few Yo
Yow Negates Ref
Negate Wry Foes
Negate Rosy Few
New Goatees Fry
Eager Few Stony
Agree Few Stony
Few Grease Tony
Sewage Fern Toy
Senate Few Orgy
Eatery Few Song
Sew Ye Frontage
Forage News Yet
Fawners Eye Tog
Eye Gown Faster
Wafers Gone Yet

I am still having trouble decyphering what you mean.

Wow! That's harder than it looks! The only thing I can come up with (without going to Scrabble lookup) is "Angry Feet Woes." But wait, there's always "O, Few Angry Tees."

sage

OldPhiKap

12-20-2011, 02:12 PM

Wow! That's harder than it looks! The only thing I can come up with (without going to Scrabble lookup) is "Angry Feet Woes." But wait, there's always "O, Few Angry Tees."

sage

Somehow, it seems to me that deriving a list of anagrams for "waste of energy" should somehow arrive at "irony" as an acceptable answer.

What the coaches are doing makes perfect sense. We have depth at the position; Murphy missed some time due to an injury; and a year of maturity will help him physically and mentally. No drama, no worries.

Practice hard, learn the system, get good grades and hit the weight room. We've got plenty of minutes for you to play from next year forwards.

MChambers

12-20-2011, 02:47 PM

Wow! That's harder than it looks! The only thing I can come up with (without going to Scrabble lookup) is "Angry Feet Woes." But wait, there's always "O, Few Angry Tees."

sage

Try

http://wordsmith.org/anagram/

where you learn that Dean E. Smith = Inmate Shed
and
Michael Jordan = Jailed Monarch

Devilsfan

12-20-2011, 05:42 PM

OZZIE4DUKE

12-20-2011, 05:51 PM

What are the options of a player being redshirted as far as next year is concerned? Since he sat out an entire season can he transfer without penalty? Hope not but just curious from a players point of view.
Why did you even have to go there? Chances are, he'd have to sit out next year as a transfer unless he got special permission from the NCAA, which also involves blessings from the "releasing" school. Seems like when players transfer away from Duke, including incoming frosh who sign a binding LOI but then change there mind, they play the next year, but when they transfer in, they have to sit out a year.

-jk

12-20-2011, 06:24 PM

Why did you even have to go there? Chances are, he'd have to sit out next year as a transfer unless he got special permission from the NCAA, which also involves blessings from the "releasing" school. Seems like when players transfer away from Duke, including incoming frosh who sign a binding LOI but then change there mind, they play the next year, but when they transfer in, they have to sit out a year.

EWill got to play, but Czyz sat.

As I understand it, the ncaa has a rule of sitting for a year except under extraordinary circumstances as an undergraduate.

Graduate students don't have to sit, but may (cf St Joe's).

-jk

lotusland

12-20-2011, 07:29 PM

Gorilla

12-21-2011, 06:59 AM

To my knowledge the duke staff never came out and stated that mp3 is going to redshirt. However a lot of duke fans feel that he is sitting out this year, so why can't it be the same for Murphy.

oldnavy

12-21-2011, 08:44 AM

I think a better question to Coach Capel would have been "will the coaching staff continue to redshirt Alex", because I think it is fair to say that they have in effect redshirted him to this point.

I believe that Coach Capel was totally honest in his answer. Why would the staff make a "final" deceision to redshirt AM now when they do not have to? However, I do believe that the "working" decision has been to redshirt him and unless something changes it will continue to be the decison until the end of the season. Having said that, there is absolutely no reason for the staff to make a definitive statement now, especially since they are probably keeping the opitions open...

Oldnavy's opinion (did I just go Ol Roy?) is, that he will not play this year and will be a second year freshman next year, which I support completely.

OldPhiKap

12-21-2011, 09:01 AM

To my knowledge the duke staff never came out and stated that mp3 is going to redshirt. However a lot of duke fans feel that he is sitting out this year, so why can't it be the same for Murphy.

Because Murphy is the destroyer of worlds.

Murphy is quicker than mercury greased wtih bacon droppings. Stronger than Chuck Norris' wildest dream.

Murphy is what Willis was talking about.

Murphy is what the Aztecs predicted in 2012.

At least, that's what I have gathered from this thread. But yeah, put me down in your camp as this being a normal "nondecision" as the season unfolds and as Murphy gets a year of college (school and hoops) under his belt.

devildeac

12-21-2011, 10:23 AM

Because Murphy is the destroyer of worlds.

Murphy is quicker than mercury greased wtih bacon droppings. Stronger than Chuck Norris' wildest dream.

Murphy is what Willis was talking about.

Murphy is what the Aztecs predicted in 2012.

At least, that's what I have gathered from this thread. But yeah, put me down in your camp as this being a normal "nondecision" as the season unfolds and as Murphy gets a year of college (school and hoops) under his belt.

You have him confused with Patrick Davidson.

MChambers

12-21-2011, 10:43 AM

You have him confused with Patrick Davidson.
Imagine if Alex and Patrick were on the same team! The universe would implode.

Devilsfan

12-21-2011, 10:43 AM

I thought he graduated early from high school so that he could play basketball at Duke not have a front row seat on the bench and watch others play. Maybe I'm mistaken.

gumbomoop

12-21-2011, 10:49 AM

Why would the staff make a "final" deceision to redshirt AM now when they do not have to? However, I do believe that the "working" decision has been to redshirt him and unless something changes it will continue to be the decison until the end of the season. Having said that, there is absolutely no reason for the staff to make a definitive statement now, especially since they are probably keeping the opitions open...

Bolded tag quote is key point. AM and/or MP3 will be redshirted, automatically, if they do not play at all this season. That AM played but MP3 did not in preseason exhibition games is irrelevant, as both are frosh [in NCAA-rule parlance, "initial-year" players].

Now, it may be that in the past coaches routinely "announced" that player X would be redshirted. It may be that some coaches did so, others didn't. It may be that the NCAA redshirt rules have changed. But given current rules, it does seem that the sensible approach for a coach to take is exactly what the Duke staff is doing: nothing. Indeed, even if they were to "announce" [oldnavy's reference to "final"] that X is redshirting, if they decided to play X late in the season, they could do so.

CDu

12-21-2011, 10:55 AM

Bolded tag quote is key point. AM and/or MP3 will be redshirted, automatically, if they do not play at all this season. That AM played but MP3 did not in preseason exhibition games is irrelevant, as both are frosh [in NCAA-rule parlance, "initial-year" players].

Now, it may be that in the past coaches routinely "announced" that player X would be redshirted. It may be that some coaches did so, others didn't. It may be that the NCAA redshirt rules have changed. But given current rules, it does seem that the sensible approach for a coach to take is exactly what the Duke staff is doing: nothing. Indeed, even if they were to "announce" [oldnavy's reference to "final"] that X is redshirting, if they decided to play X late in the season, they could do so.

It's only an issue for message boards and call-in radio shows.

-jk

12-21-2011, 10:55 AM

I thought he graduated early from high school so that he could play basketball at Duke not have a front row seat on the bench and watch others play. Maybe I'm mistaken.

I seem to recall that he came with the idea that a redshirt might be in the works, but that a year practicing and training at Duke would be far more useful to him than another year of high school and AAU ball.

-jk

OldPhiKap

12-21-2011, 11:29 AM

I thought he graduated early from high school so that he could play basketball at Duke not have a front row seat on the bench and watch others play. Maybe I'm mistaken.

I assume he came because he wants to play for Coach K. Which he will. He will actually get up to five years coaching from him if he redshirts, and still graduate/enter lottery/whatever with the class of folks with whom he was going to high school.

Why try and sew discontent where there is no evidence of it?

Mike Corey

12-21-2011, 11:43 AM

I assume he came because he wants to play for Coach K. Which he will. He will actually get up to five years coaching from him if he redshirts, and still graduate/enter lottery/whatever with the class of folks with whom he was going to high school.

I think this is absolutely right, and not an uncontroversial or confusing thing to understand at all.

Everyone runs their own race.

MChambers

12-21-2011, 12:29 PM

I think this is absolutely right, and not an uncontroversial or confusing thing to understand at all.

Everyone runs their own race.

I agree with you. By the way, this is the only instance in which I think it is appropriate to play a race card.

Greg_Newton

12-21-2011, 01:30 PM

I think this is absolutely right, and not an uncontroversial or confusing thing to understand at all.

Everyone runs their own race.

So he thinks it's more likely he will be at Duke for 5 years than he would have gotten any benefit/minutes from not redshirting this year?

Seems strange given how much he impressed early.

CameronBornAndBred

12-21-2011, 01:34 PM

To my knowledge the duke staff never came out and stated that mp3 is going to redshirt. However a lot of duke fans feel that he is sitting out this year, so why can't it be the same for Murphy.
They have indeed said he is redshirting.

“I think the decision was made just prior to the start of the season,” said David Gaines, the Christ School basketball coach who had Miles (a 6-10 senior), Mason (6-10 junior) and Marshall on his teams at the private school in Arden.
“I talked to (Duke (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/#) assistant coach Chris Collins) and he said Coach K had talked to Marshall and his parents and everyone was on board with the idea,” said Gaines.
“I think once they evaluated how the preseason had gone and Marshall realized there was a pretty formidable group of (front line) players ahead of him, everybody agreed this is what’s best for his future.”

http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20111130/SPORTS/311300030/Duke-plans-redshirt-Marshall-Plumlee

I honestly don't care if Murphy plays this year or not, we are a loaded team so I'm not worried about missing something that Alex may bring to the floor. I do have 2 questions though, maybe someone has the answers.
1. Has Duke ever redshirted 2 freshmen before?
2. How will it be perceived by current recruits that we have two redshirts on the bench?
Playing Devil's advocate...I could see a few raised eyebrows from guys wondering if they come are they simply signing up for a year of extra practice.

CDu

12-21-2011, 01:50 PM

2. How will it be perceived by current recruits that we have two redshirts on the bench?
Playing Devil's advocate...I could see a few raised eyebrows from guys wondering if they come are they simply signing up for a year of extra practice.

Question #2 is an interesting one. Especially considering that Plumlee and Murphy were both top 30-40 recruits (i.e., guys that frequently play decent minutes as freshman on most college teams). I'm sure nobody ever uses negative recruiting strategies against Duke (sarcasm), but that's certainly a question that the staff may face in the next couple of years.

Newton_14

12-21-2011, 02:20 PM

Question #2 is an interesting one. Especially considering that Plumlee and Murphy were both top 30-40 recruits (i.e., guys that frequently play decent minutes as freshman on most college teams). I'm sure nobody ever uses negative recruiting strategies against Duke (sarcasm), but that's certainly a question that the staff may face in the next couple of years.

In fairness, Alex came a year early with a possible plan of redshirting being discussed before he made the final decision to come early. When he decided to come early his ranking was adjusted due to the change in class and he landed at 49 in the RSCI. Marshall was ranked 61 in the final RSCI.

I don't see this as an issue at all to be honest. MP3 has 4 guys in front of him in the rotation, and clearly can benefit from another year of body development. Unlike his brothers, MP3 only spent 4 years in High School so he is in his normal class. Miles and Mason both took a redshirt year in high school so to speak.

Both are unique situations, and I just don't see this as a negative on the recruiting trail. Even if other coaches try to use this as a negative recruiting tool, it will likely have zero impact. The ego of recruits these days is quite large. They all fully believe they will be NBA stars so they would look at this with a "no way that would happen to me" kind of attitude.

It is just a unique situation with both kids and certainly not a pattern that could be pointed to.

lotusland

12-21-2011, 02:53 PM

They have indeed said he is redshirting.

http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20111130/SPORTS/311300030/Duke-plans-redshirt-Marshall-Plumlee

Not that it even matters but that isn't actually an announcement by the team or coaching staff. That is Marshall's HS coach repeating what Coach Collins told him. For all we know the coaching staff has already had similar converstaions with AM's parents and coaches but who haven't repeated it to the press.

CDu

12-21-2011, 02:57 PM

I don't see this as an issue at all to be honest.

Both are unique situations, and I just don't see this as a negative on the recruiting trail. Even if other coaches try to use this as a negative recruiting tool, it will likely have zero impact. The ego of recruits these days is quite large.

It is just a unique situation with both kids and certainly not a pattern that could be pointed to.

I don't disagree with the explanation of the situation. But all it takes is a coach or someone in the kid's ear saying "look at that - Duke has a McDonald's All-American that is redshirting." It doesn't matter that there's a logical reason for it. And I agree it's not a pattern. But perception doesn't always coincide with the logical explanation. And I could easily see that perception being a question Duke has to answer.

That doesn't mean Duke won't be able to address it. Just that I think it's a real possibility that a recruit could be deterred by the redshirts.

They all fully believe they will be NBA stars so they would look at this with a "no way that would happen to me" kind of attitude.

That's the best argument against it being a problem, and hopefully that's the case more often than not. I wouldn't use the word "all" though, as I'm quite sure there are plenty of kids who would be deterred by such a thing. Perhaps those are guys we wouldn't want anyway, though.

CameronBornAndBred

12-21-2011, 03:06 PM

While looking up to see if I could find any official announcement from Duke about anyone redshirting (I couldn't) I did find this, and it makes great sense when you look ahead to next season.

The two redshirts from Duke is not a common occurrence for the Blue Devils. Mike Krzyzewski can do it this year with a deep roster, but the bigger reason is due to a thin incoming class next season. Duke has only one commitment for the class of 2012 in Rasheed Sulaimon.

From an article talking about Jeff Goodman's assumption that Murphy will redshirt as well.
http://www.scacchoops.com/tt_NewsBreaker_External.asp?NB=6544

Bluedog

12-21-2011, 03:40 PM

Coach K has explicitly stated in post-game conferences that there will never be a redshirt announcement during the season because that's a decision that cannot be made until the end of the season. A player is eligible to apply for a redshirt after not having participated in the whole season that just occurred; they can't apply during it. Obviously, the coaching staff/player could say "that's the plan," but I imagine they don't want to officially declare anything in case something comes up (e.g. injuries to the frontcourt that would necessitate Marshall to start playing or something like that). So, in the coaches' minds I would think "that's the plan," but Alex and MP3 aren't official redshirts until the season has concluded and the NCAA has granted it.

jimsumner

12-21-2011, 04:03 PM

sagegrouse

12-21-2011, 04:20 PM

A few years ago Duke redshirted Jordan Davidson. Kid was a walk-on, who never played much. Practice player and emergency option.

K would never publically admit that Davidson was redshirting. And he was a walk-on.

So, the absence of a formal announcement isn't especially telling. Marshall will not play this season and Murphy is highly unlikely to play this season. A catastrophic series of injuries could change this but catastrophic series of injuries don't happen very often.

Isn't this West Point training? You have your troops in battle and you have your reserves, available if needed. You don't have to tell your forces in battle to be ready, because they are fighting. But you tell your reserves to be ready, because they are gonna be fighting tomorrow, even if it is unlikely they will be.

sage

gumbomoop

12-21-2011, 04:45 PM

So he thinks it's more likely he will be at Duke for 5 years than he would have gotten any benefit/minutes from not redshirting this year?

Seems strange given how much he impressed early.

I do think this is an intriguing issue. Not controversial, not dismaying, just intriguing. My guess is that Murphy sure hopes he's good enough after his junior year [4th at Duke] to be a first-rounder. In that eventuality, well, Murphy and the Devils would have "wasted" his first year here. But not so much, as that concussion pushed him back maybe more than minimally, and so the hope that he might challenge for a rotation-spot fell by the wayside. This season, the thinking might go, he's not quite as good on D as Gbinije, nor is he likely, just yet, to bring efficient slash-to-the-basket on O. So, the "gamble" is, a 5th-year senior Murphy will be terrific, so it's worth thinking about that long-range scenario, as Duke isn't likely to win extra games were Murphy to play this season.

Should (1) Duke fail this season to reach the Final 4, and (2) should Murphy absolutely explode next season, we could look back and imagine "what if Murphy had played....." Further, (3) should Murphy become a star in 2013-14 season, and, say, depart for the NBA after having actually played but 2 seasons, we'd also look back and [some might] say, "Well, K made a mistake on that one." But obviously we'll have to wait and see about this season, and Murphy's next/first 2.

IMO, and others will disagree, the gamble is reasonable; Murphy is likely to play 3 seasons, just possibly a 4th, and we'll be very pleased with his smarts and skills.

Has Duke ever redshirted 2 freshmen before?

And lost in all this detail about AM and MP3 is the meta-issue of CB&B's question: is this a major change in K's policy? I'm pretty sure it has been authoritatively and convincingly stated by several informed posters that "K does not redshirt guys." Exceptions for injury, and unusual circumstances. So that leaves us to debate whether either or both of these 2 cases is unusual.

CDu

12-21-2011, 04:51 PM

And lost in all this detail about AM and MP3 is the meta-issue of CB&B's question: is this a major change in K's policy? I'm pretty sure it has been authoritatively and convincingly stated by several informed posters that "K does not redshirt guys." Exceptions for injury, and unusual circumstances. So that leaves us to debate whether either or both of these 2 cases is unusual.

It's pretty rare for basketball programs to redshirt ANY top-100 recruits outside of medical reasons. Redshirting two in a single season is pretty unheard of for Duke or anyone else.

jimsumner

12-21-2011, 04:52 PM

.

And lost in all this detail about AM and MP3 is the meta-issue of CB&B's question: is this a major change in K's policy? I'm pretty sure it has been authoritatively and convincingly stated by several informed posters that "K does not redshirt guys." Exceptions for injury, and unusual circumstances. So that leaves us to debate whether either or both of these 2 cases is unusual.

This is very much a change in K's policy. Whether it's a one-year blip on the radar screen or something more permanent remains to be seen. But prior to this, the last non-injury redshirt of a recruited Duke player was Matt Christensen in 1999 and Matt was coming off a two-year Mormon mission.

ChillinDuke

12-21-2011, 05:47 PM

I assume he came because he wants to play for Coach K. Which he will. He will actually get up to five years coaching from him if he redshirts, and still graduate/enter lottery/whatever with the class of folks with whom he was going to high school.

Why try and sew discontent where there is no evidence of it?

Or perhaps Coach K just wants another shot at getting Singler's jersey retired. An extra year of coaching has got to put him over the edge. Just with a different last name. :rolleyes:

- Chillin

yancem

12-21-2011, 08:53 PM

I do think this is an intriguing issue. Not controversial, not dismaying, just intriguing. My guess is that Murphy sure hopes he's good enough after his junior year [4th at Duke] to be a first-rounder. In that eventuality, well, Murphy and the Devils would have "wasted" his first year here. But not so much, as that concussion pushed him back maybe more than minimally, and so the hope that he might challenge for a rotation-spot fell by the wayside. This season, the thinking might go, he's not quite as good on D as Gbinije, nor is he likely, just yet, to bring efficient slash-to-the-basket on O. So, the "gamble" is, a 5th-year senior Murphy will be terrific, so it's worth thinking about that long-range scenario, as Duke isn't likely to win extra games were Murphy to play this season.

Should (1) Duke fail this season to reach the Final 4, and (2) should Murphy absolutely explode next season, we could look back and imagine "what if Murphy had played....." Further, (3) should Murphy become a star in 2013-14 season, and, say, depart for the NBA after having actually played but 2 seasons, we'd also look back and [some might] say, "Well, K made a mistake on that one." But obviously we'll have to wait and see about this season, and Murphy's next/first 2.

IMO, and others will disagree, the gamble is reasonable; Murphy is likely to play 3 seasons, just possibly a 4th, and we'll be very pleased with his smarts and skills.

I totally agree with this assessment. The thing to remember is that there are few guarantees when it comes to making it to the pros. There are many top 20 even top 10 recruits that don't have the impact the experts expect. Just looking at Duke this past decade or so you can find several examples. I don't think that any reasonable person thought that we would get 4 years out of Singler (I personally wasn't sure we would get 3). He ended up being a 2nd rounder which makes you wonder if he wouldn't have minded having a 5th year. Coming into his freshman year, Mason was billed as a possible one and done. During the China trip, it looked like he would definitely be back for his senior year. Now it looks like he'll be gone. You never know. Other examples: McRoberts left after 2 year but not because he was ready, the Land Lord was a top 10 recruit and he stuck around for 4 years, Duhon was the National Gatorade player of the year and he was a second rounder after 4 years, Randolph left after 3 years but again, not because he was ready, Burgess was never ready even with a transfer year.

Will Murphy stick around for a 5th year? I have no idea, but I don't think that he his playing or not would greatly impact this season but his presence in 2015-16 could make the difference in a championship or not. I think its worth the risk.

Greg_Newton

12-23-2011, 12:40 AM

I totally agree with this assessment. The thing to remember is that there are few guarantees when it comes to making it to the pros. There are many top 20 even top 10 recruits that don't have the impact the experts expect. Just looking at Duke this past decade or so you can find several examples. I don't think that any reasonable person thought that we would get 4 years out of Singler (I personally wasn't sure we would get 3). He ended up being a 2nd rounder which makes you wonder if he wouldn't have minded having a 5th year. Coming into his freshman year, Mason was billed as a possible one and done. During the China trip, it looked like he would definitely be back for his senior year. Now it looks like he'll be gone. You never know. Other examples: McRoberts left after 2 year but not because he was ready, the Land Lord was a top 10 recruit and he stuck around for 4 years, Duhon was the National Gatorade player of the year and he was a second rounder after 4 years, Randolph left after 3 years but again, not because he was ready, Burgess was never ready even with a transfer year.

Will Murphy stick around for a 5th year? I have no idea, but I don't think that he his playing or not would greatly impact this season but his presence in 2015-16 could make the difference in a championship or not. I think its worth the risk.

Thing is, even in those examples, I don't really see anybody who would have likely stayed a fifth year.

I mean, you're 22-23, the players and students that you matriculated with are all graduating and moving on, and you've spent four years as a Blue Devil... I think most players would view that as the time to move on to the next stage in their life, rather than hanging around for a post-graduate year and entering the pro ranks at 23-34 (if you were a second rounder after four years, there's not much you're going to do to improve your stock at that age).

Where it makes sense, to me, is with behind-the-curve bigs like Zoubek, Miles Plumlee and Marshall Plumlee. Clearly not ready for the pace and power of the game as freshmen, and not billed as potential early-entrants; I like the idea of that.

However, Murphy is a guy who was a top 15 player in his original class, and at 6'8 with quickness, athleticism, handles, a decent shot and a great first step, is a prototypical NBA wing. Throw in the fact that we have exactly one player who can consistently get the rim on this team, and that Murphy was initially considered good enough by our coaches (who are generally decent judges of talent) to be a lock for the rotation and potential starter 2-3 months ago. Not really seeing the risk/reward here.

Devilsfan

12-23-2011, 09:35 AM

Debt free with a chance to make money your first year out that would take four to seven years to make in a field of study other than one where you play a game you love. That's pretty hard to pass up if the opportunity comes before your fourth year or a fifth year if you have graduated at a high level academic institution that requires work in the classroom like Duke does. Remember Duke is not for your casual student like Kentucky or the like and it might be tempting to start making monies that most will never have a chance to obtain in their twenties or thirties.

gumbomoop

12-23-2011, 12:40 PM

However, Murphy is a guy who was a top 15 player in his original class, and at 6'8 with quickness, athleticism, handles, a decent shot and a great first step, is a prototypical NBA wing. Throw in the fact that we have exactly one player who can consistently get the rim on this team, and that Murphy was initially considered good enough by our coaches (who are generally decent judges of talent) to be a lock for the rotation and potential starter 2-3 months ago. Not really seeing the risk/reward here.

Good response to yancem's and my take on risk/reward. We can all admit that a redshirt for Murphy was unexpected, even given the fact that he arrived early. He started the first exhibition, the stats for which suggest he was not very productive. He did not start the second exhibition, and I assume he was injured early in his floor-time, as he played only 3 minutes.

Seems reasonable to assume that Alex's having to stay out for a week or so led the staff to think about (1) his strengths and weaknesses, (2) the depth of this year's team, (3) the possibility of a very small [numbers] 2012 recruiting class.

There's no reason to believe that K would play 10 or 11 guys, so the question for the staff might have been, how will the non-Austin frosh contribute? May we not assume that Alex's O was/is much more advanced than his D? But, I'm guessing K and staff believed the team could score points, and Gbinije was much more likely to provide valuable D-minutes than Murphy.

So, if - naturally I'm speculating here, just trying to give a plausible explanation for this little mystery-surprise - K and staff saw Alex as lagging behind Michael as a potential defender on taller wings, and further saw Alex as substantially behind Josh as a back-up defender against 4s, then that surely means they'd project him as earning little PT, as the 10th or 11th guy.

So [still speculating, plausibly, about K's thinking], (1) the top 6 guys were set pretty early: Seth, Andre, Austin, Mason, Ryan, Miles. (2) Who else? Well, first, Tyler, for glue, leadership, sneaky D. Then, for back-up D on 3s and 4s, Michael and Josh. Repeat: Tyler, Michael, and Josh more ready on D than Alex. (3) Finally, Quinn, as the PG issue was uncertain. (4) Alex, after initial, and undoubtedly justified, enthusiasm for his potential, suffered a setback, and became the subject for a larger rethink, so large, when combined with thinking about Marshall, that it is a striking - whether one-off or more permanent - change in K's "policy" about redshirting.

This change is surprising, and can only be explained by the particular circumstances of Alex's early matriculation, his unfortunate injury, and team depth. That it can, I think plausibly, be "explained" doesn't mean the reward, in the end, will have outweighed or justified the risk. As I admitted in my earlier post, I can imagine a set of circumstances in which this decision will come to be regretted, criticized, etc. I can, and of course prefer to, imagine circumstances in which K will be judged to have made a decision that, down the road, benefited both Alex and the team's NCAAT fortunes.

Faison1

12-23-2011, 01:02 PM

When Nolan was a Sophmore and he got that brutal pick at Maryland, wasn't he out for weeks/months with a concussion?

Is it too far-fetched to think that if the same thing had happened to Nolan at the beginning of his freshman year, the staff might have red-shirted him? He didn't get big minutes that year anyway, IIRC.

Bob Green

12-23-2011, 01:43 PM

When Nolan was a Sophmore and he got that brutal pick at Maryland, wasn't he out for weeks/months with a concussion?

Nolan Smith was injured at Maryland on 2/25/2009. He next played on 3/13/2009 against Boston College missing three games (VT/FSU/UNC).

Is it too far-fetched to think that if the same thing had happened to Nolan at the beginning of his freshman year, the staff might have red-shirted him? He didn't get big minutes that year anyway, IIRC.

As a freshman, Smith played 14.7 minutes per game averaging 5.9 points, 1.5 rebounds and 1.3 assists per game.

http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/players/statlines.php?playerid=2473

JayBean

12-23-2011, 02:08 PM

Nolan Smith was injured at Maryland on 2/25/2009. He next played on 3/13/2009 against Boston College missing three games (VT/FSU/UNC).

As a freshman, Smith played 14.7 minutes per game averaging 5.9 points, 1.5 rebounds and 1.3 assists per game.

http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/players/statlines.php?playerid=2473

True, he did play again after the concussion, but he really wasn't the same player. Coach K even alluded to this (I can't remember the exact comment, but he said that it wasn't until the summer that Nolan got back to being his old self).

Faison1

12-23-2011, 02:34 PM

True, he did play again after the concussion, but he really wasn't the same player. Coach K even alluded to this (I can't remember the exact comment, but he said that it wasn't until the summer that Nolan got back to being his old self).

Thanks to Bob Green for the stats clarification. But I'll have to side with JayBean here, as I recall that Nolan didn't play much of a factor in the ACC Tourney. That's when we started to lean on Elliott Williams, especially for on-ball defense.

Maybe my memory is foggy. But I hope Bob can/will back it up with some game stats from the last few games we played.

Bob Green

12-23-2011, 03:05 PM

Maybe my memory is foggy. But I hope Bob can/will back it up with some game stats from the last few games we played.

Smith played in six games after his return from the concussion and scored in double figures three times: 10 points against Maryland, 13 points against Binghamton, and 11 points against Texas. His non-double digit games were: three points against Boston College, six points against Florida State, and four points against Villanova.

Faison1

12-24-2011, 10:08 AM

Smith played in six games after his return from the concussion and scored in double figures three times: 10 points against Maryland, 13 points against Binghamton, and 11 points against Texas. His non-double digit games were: three points against Boston College, six points against Florida State, and four points against Villanova.

Having given this a bit more thought last night, I guess I just don't see why everyone is so perplexed by Alex's redshirting. Let's say his frosh numbers would have been similar to Nolan's.....14.7 mins, and 5.9 points per game. I think that's a resonable expectation and comparison.

Even though Nolan contributed, he wasn't the same after his concussion during his sophmore year. So, with the staff having experienced it once before, I just don't think it's a surprise that they would choose to hold Alex out for the year, especially since his numbers wouldn't have been game-changing for the squad. He would have been a nice addition, but certainly not a Singler type of Freshman.

OldPhiKap

12-24-2011, 10:15 AM

Just watched this week in Duke Basketball (or whatever it is) -- great to see Alex talking to Mike Dunleavy and then hearing Alex talk about how cool it was to be around the professionals during the lock-out.

First time I have actually seen what Alex looks like (still haven't seen him ball) -- but very articulate as you would expect from a new Devil.

tommy

12-24-2011, 11:50 AM

Having given this a bit more thought last night, I guess I just don't see why everyone is so perplexed by Alex's redshirting. Let's say his frosh numbers would have been similar to Nolan's.....14.7 mins, and 5.9 points per game. I think that's a resonable expectation and comparison.

Even though Nolan contributed, he wasn't the same after his concussion during his sophmore year. So, with the staff having experienced it once before, I just don't think it's a surprise that they would choose to hold Alex out for the year, especially since his numbers wouldn't have been game-changing for the squad. He would have been a nice addition, but certainly not a Singler type of Freshman.

I'm not questioning the decision based on medical or any other grounds but I still find it amazing that a football player perhaps unwisely comes back after a concussion in a couple of weeks or sometimes the next week or in the olden days perhaps even the same day and yet a basketball player suffers a concussion in a sport in which he's much much less likely to suffer another one and he's out for the season.

Again not questioning it, just noting the disparity which is surprising given the nature of the sports.

CDu

12-24-2011, 12:46 PM

I'm not questioning the decision based on medical or any other grounds but I still find it amazing that a football player perhaps unwisely comes back after a concussion in a couple of weeks or sometimes the next week or in the olden days perhaps even the same day and yet a basketball player suffers a concussion in a sport in which he's much much less likely to suffer another one and he's out for the season.

Again not questioning it, just noting the disparity which is surprising given the nature of the sports.

Do we really know that he's actually out for the season because of the concussion? I highly doubt that's the case. It may be that the concussion cost him time and that, with the depth of the team, the redshirt makes more sense. I haven't seen anywhere that suggests concussion symptoms are what continues to keep him off the court.

I believe he's been practicing since the return from Maui, right? It would seem to me that, if he's practicing, he's healthy enough to play (given how hard we practice) and that he's DNPs are not concussion-related anymore. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about him practicing.

Mike Corey

12-31-2011, 04:39 PM

Quinn Cook has unwittingly confirmed that Alex will not be seeing the court this season.

Listen closely at the 1:53 mark (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnGQ6_NHP-k&feature=youtu.be).

With Alex interviewing Quinn, Quinn says:

I can't wait 'til my man A. Murphy is on the court with me next year, and we're gonna be throwin' lobs. Lob city.

OldPhiKap

12-31-2011, 04:48 PM

Mike Corey

12-31-2011, 04:58 PM

Alex looks smooth with the mic, though.

Nolan is rumored to have doled out lessons to his DBP disciples. Marshall's gotta be in the lead, though I'm betting he gets Jay Leno'd when the next NBA lockout shutters the league again.

nmduke2001

12-31-2011, 04:59 PM

Quinn Cook has unwittingly confirmed that Alex will not be seeing the court this season.

Listen closely at the 1:53 mark (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnGQ6_NHP-k&feature=youtu.be).

With Alex interviewing Quinn, Quinn says:I can't wait 'til my man A. Murphy is on the court with me next year, and we're gonna be throwin' lobs. Lob city.

:
I was thinking the same thing. I guess he does say "next year" which technically could be tomorrow.

RockyMtDevil

01-10-2012, 11:53 AM

Redshirt? Alien Abduction? Joined Monastary?

airowe

01-10-2012, 11:59 AM

http://www.dukehoopblog.com/2012/01/02/alex-murphy-may-redshirt-but-decision-hasnt-been-made-yet/

SilkyJ

01-10-2012, 12:23 PM

http://www.dukehoopblog.com/2012/01/02/alex-murphy-may-redshirt-but-decision-hasnt-been-made-yet/

Thanks, Adam. I haven't had a chance to watch many (any) of those shows yet so thanks for the summary. I didn't realize Alex always planned to redshirt when he initially enrolled early.

As you say, the most important part is that everyone, meaning staff, player and family, are on the same page and there's no unrest. This should put to bed any talk of him being unhappy, looking to transfer, etc. Not that there was a lot of chatter about it, but there was some...

roywhite

01-10-2012, 12:25 PM

Nice feature on Alex on a recent Inside Basketball with Duke's Coach K
(it was on DirecTV channel 646 Saturday 1/7 at 9:30 AM, which may put it behind what is seen in the Triangle)

Basically seemed all good.
Showed Alex lifting weights, talked for several minutes about how he liked Duke, progress so far, and then setback from injury.
Sounded like almost definite redshirt this year.
Coach K talked very positively about Alex; gets along well with Alex's family (there is a 13-yr old at home who may be the biggest of the bunch)
Coach K mentioned that Alex is the type of player who could be a 4-year starter and an All-Conference selection.

Current goals seem to involve strength and conditioning; just general experience of practice and learning.

Edit to note: I see airowe's link contains much of this information
My take was that Alex and Duke seem like a great fit