View Full Version : MBB: Duke vs Tennessee, Pregame & In-Game Thread
diveonthefloor
11-20-2011, 02:42 PM
Didn't see this started yet.
TN is going to be an extremely hard team to scout. Martin has installed a completely new system at TN after Pearl's departure. Trying to run
lots of motion offense. Despite some key departures, there are still some talented players left at TN: Tatum, McBee, Golden, Maymon, McRae....
This tournament could provide a huge burst of energy to a TN team that is beginning to recover from the Pearl-driven nightmare of last year.
feldspar
11-20-2011, 02:53 PM
Duke takes on Tennessee Monday at 12:30 p.m. Hawaii time. That translates to 5:30 p.m. EST.
I haven't seen this team play yet, as they've only had two small matchups (UNCG and Louisiana-Monroe), both of which they won handily.
This is not the Tennessee team of years past. For starters, we all know about Bruce Pearl being gone. First-year coach Cuonzo Martin brings a different style of play to the Volunteers, and his team is probably going to go through some growing pains this year as they try to adapt to more of a half-court offense as opposed to the run-and-gun style of Pearl. Martin's also pretty big on stifling half-court defense,
Players to watch out for: Well, the Vols' two top scorers, Scotty Hopson and Tobias Harris are of course gone, and sophomore point guard Trae Golden has been handed the reigns of the offense. So far, he's done a pretty good job, averaging 10 assists and 23 points in two games this season. But Golden hasn't faced a defense as disciplined as the Blue Devils, so he'll no doubt see a lot of pressure from our guards.
Good news for Duke: Tennesse is just not very experienced down low. Jeronne Maymon is Tennesse's top presence in the frontcourt. The transfer from Marquette averaged just 9 minutes last year and fewer than 3 ppg. He has, however, put up respectable numbers in the Vols' first two games, averaging 13 and 7.5, but again, that's against inferior competition. Hopefully this will be a great game for the Plumlees to continue to gain confidence and get the ball in the halfcourt set.
All in all, Tennesse is going to have a hard time scoring against quality teams this year, so if Duke's defense is firing on all cylinders, it could get ugly.
Go Duke!
Bob Green
11-20-2011, 03:12 PM
All in all, Tennessee is going to have a hard time scoring against quality teams this year, so if Duke's defense is firing on all cylinders, it could get ugly.
Go Duke!
Perhaps Tennessee will be a litmus test for Duke's perimeter defense. The Volunteers are shooting 49.1% from behind the 3-point arc (26/53) through two games, while Duke is allowing opponents to sink just 33.3% (22/66) through four games. One interesting item to keep an eye one will be whether Tennessee's 3-point offense or Duke's 3-point defense prevails.
J4Kop99
11-20-2011, 04:15 PM
What kind of size is Tennessee working with?
-Hopefully Mase can continue staying aggressive and keep rebounding at a high level. Also, let's see if, for the first time this year, Austin and Andre can both have a good game. Usually it's one or the other.
Also, let's see if, for the first time this year, Austin and Andre can both have a good game. Usually it's one or the other.
Need a little more balance on offense. Obviously, certain teams will give us different matchup looks that necessitate a different scoring
approach for each game. Regardless, however, we need for all players to show they can score, regardless of the matchup. That way, other
teams won't be able to key on one or two players to stop us.
dukeballboy88
11-21-2011, 10:27 AM
And it seems like new coach Cunzo Martin is taking a page out of Coach K's book and stressing half court defense. From what I read and from what I hear from some Vols fans, this team is gritty and will play hard every play. This field in Maui is loaded. I cant wait to see our backourt up against a solid pg like Tennessee has in Golden. Alot of talk right now is about Tennessee being more rested and ariving in Maui on Thursday????
http://www.govolsxtra.com/news/2011/nov/19/former-wake-forest-south-carolina-coach-dave-by/
I dont see it. Duke has a team that can beat you different ways this year. They can shoot the 3, they have a guy that can get to the basket at will in Rivers and I think now we can win a game in the paint. Plus we have Coach K and that is enough.
The spread is Duke -12 and the over and under is 144.5 so Im going Duke 77-69. I cant get the fact that we let teams back in out of my mind. So Im going to say, Duke takes a 15 point lead and Tennessee mounts a comeback cutting it to 6 before Duke ices it from the line.
Olympic Fan
11-21-2011, 10:32 AM
Perhaps Tennessee will be a litmus test for Duke's perimeter defense. The Volunteers are shooting 49.1% from behind the 3-point arc (26/53) through two games, while Duke is allowing opponents to sink just 33.3% (22/66) through four games. One interesting item to keep an eye one will be whether Tennessee's 3-point offense or Duke's 3-point defense prevails.
just to put those numbers into perspective, Duke's 3point field goal percentage defense has been -- so far -- pretty average. That figure (33.3 percent) would have been eighth best in the ACC last year (FSU led the league at 30.6 percent; Duke was at 32.4 percent).
Tennessee's 49.1 percent is an incredible figure -- if they can keep it up. A year ago, no PLAYER in the ACC averaged better than 43 percent.
DukeVol
11-21-2011, 02:40 PM
Checking in from Knoxville....GO BLUE DEVILS!
I hope Coach Martin ends up being successful; just not against Duke.
Billy Dat
11-21-2011, 02:47 PM
I don't like these Noon-ish starting times, I feel like they'll always lead to slow starts. Hopefully more for Tenn than Duke.
Trae Golden has posted an ungodly 49.5 PER this year so far - that some nice production regardless of the competition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_Efficiency_Rating
feldspar
11-21-2011, 03:13 PM
Trae Golden has posted an ungodly 49.5 PER this year so far - that some nice production regardless of the competition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_Efficiency_Rating
Well, not only has the competition been sub-par, but Tennessee has only played in two games so far. It will be interesting to see if he pulls the same numbers against us today.
Well, not only has the competition been sub-par, but Tennessee has only played in two games so far. It will be interesting to see if he pulls the same numbers against us today.
I'll go out on a limb and say that his PER goes down a bit after today (I know - real thin limb, right?). Something tells me that he's not likely to put up 23 points and 10 assists with a 60% FG% against us.
Obviously players can improve a lot from year to year. But this is a guy who averaged only 13mpg and 3ppg (shooting under 30% from the field) for a 15-loss team last year. And it wasn't like they had unbelievable guards in front of him.
Tennessee's 49.1 percent is an incredible figure -- if they can keep it up. A year ago, no PLAYER in the ACC averaged better than 43 percent.
Hey folks, this is a serious number. Our 3 point D against Davidson was not good in the first half. We have to close out on shooters
better, or we could be in trouble.
riverside6
11-21-2011, 05:22 PM
You'll be able to follow live stats for the game here...
http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=10376
Looks like we aren't getting Turnover, Steals, and Blocks from Maui so the efficiency numbers will be slightly off.
feldspar
11-21-2011, 05:33 PM
Why does Tennessee have blue warm up tops on?
slower
11-21-2011, 05:34 PM
The ESPN2 moron just said "the Plumlee twins." How do these guys have jobs?
juise
11-21-2011, 05:34 PM
ESPN's pre-game analysts have apparently found a way to retroactively synchronize Mason and Miles' birthdays and have dubbed them "the Plumlee twins." Impressive space-time fabric manipulation by the Worldwide Leader.
Edit: It looks like Slower and I balance each other out with positive and negative reaction to the Plumlee comment. :)
Gthoma2a
11-21-2011, 05:42 PM
Not a fan of these fouls.
Bluedog
11-21-2011, 05:43 PM
Not a fan of these fouls.
Yeah, 7 free throws in the first two minutes is not good. Looking good on offense though.
feldspar
11-21-2011, 05:48 PM
Wow...Miles with a strong move to the basket. That's nice to see.
Gthoma2a
11-21-2011, 05:48 PM
As much as Mason helps us with his skill, he can be marginalized with his free throw shooting. He has to work on that as the season goes on.
Miles is impressing me with his fight.
Gthoma2a
11-21-2011, 05:52 PM
Rivers should have pursued that turnover a little more.
ChrisP
11-21-2011, 05:53 PM
TN getting to the rim pretty much anytime and any way they want :(
loldevilz
11-21-2011, 05:56 PM
We seriously cannot stop anybody. I hope this isn't a sign of things to come.
gwlaw99
11-21-2011, 05:56 PM
Need to run some plays to get Dawkins shots.
ChrisP
11-21-2011, 06:00 PM
The Plumlee's FT shooting is really a huge problem for us. If Miles isn't better by now, I don't think he ever will be. At least his form is good though, Mason just chucks it up there. I really hope we don't lose in Maui because of awful FT shooting. That would make me mad :mad:
Bluedog
11-21-2011, 06:04 PM
Well, it's been an exciting game to watch thus far, at least. Fast paced, not the greatest D for either team, and lots of scoring. Reminds of Roy's teams. ;)
feldspar
11-21-2011, 06:04 PM
9 minutes left and we're already in the double bonus. Nice...now hit FTs.
ChrisP
11-21-2011, 06:04 PM
Wow, lots of fouls being called thus far. Will be interesting to see if the refs are consistent throughout. I'm thinking it might help us though as I am not sure how deep TN is.
Gthoma2a
11-21-2011, 06:08 PM
Rivers is a little out of control at times. Cook looks good. He is a great playmaker. He has some speed. I can't say enough. Man, I hope Rivers is okay.
Golden hasn't looked at all impressive so far for Tennessee.
Unfortunately, neither has our defense on dribble penetration.
Maymon seems like a load.
feldspar
11-21-2011, 06:12 PM
Give. Andre. The. Ball.
Miles is showing a lot of energy. He's kept 2-3 offensive rebounds alive for his teammates in the last few possessions (Rivers and Hairston were the recipients).
Meanwhile, our defense hasn't looked good.
IBleedBlue
11-21-2011, 06:16 PM
I think Tennessee is laying the blue print to beat this Duke team. Clamp down on our shooters on perimeter and foul our bigs. And our bigs can't make a free throw. Mason and Miles are atrocious from the line.
slower
11-21-2011, 06:18 PM
Meanwhile, our defense hasn't looked good.
Seriously, this level of execution just isn't going to cut it very much longer.
gwlaw99
11-21-2011, 06:18 PM
Seems Mason's free throw shooting has reverted to last year's form.
licc85
11-21-2011, 06:19 PM
they dont even need to play D, I would just foul Mason every time.
Gthoma2a
11-21-2011, 06:20 PM
Tyler just got beat on the outside and fouled to try to make up for bad defensive position. Seth tried to do too much on his own on the other end right before. We need to just play solid and stop going for the flashy stuff. Get position and force mistakes on D. Get a good look on offense.
Why have we sped up? We aren't that far behind...
jipops
11-21-2011, 06:22 PM
Vols doing this without their best player who has 2 fouls. 2nd half could be rough.
gwlaw99
11-21-2011, 06:23 PM
River's finally hitting from outside. They won't play off him anymore.
Couple of ill-advised 3s fall for Rivers. Thank goodness. Hopefully we can turn that into momentum.
Bluedog
11-21-2011, 06:24 PM
Well, after Austin makes a few stupid plays while trying to be acrobatic and getting to the rim when it wasn't there, he nails two tough threes. Gotta give him credit for the guts! But man, his form doesn't look silky smooth like Dawkins, but at least it gets the job done by and large. I've enjoyed watching this game thus far despite the sloppy play and terrible D honestly, haha. I think Miles has really asserted himself actually, playing physical and keeping a lot of balls alive with some nice rebounds.
Not a very well played first half from us. Thankfully, we've opened up a bit of a lead.
A nice last 1:30 of the half. Hopefully we can build off that.
Rivers made some bad decisions in the first half. He definitely still hasn't figured out the best thing to do once he gets into the lane. The results were a little better than his decisionmaking would suggest (those 3s especially), so I'll take it.
slower
11-21-2011, 06:29 PM
I'm glad that Austin is skilled and confident, but I'm getting an unsettling feeling about his shoot-first, shoot-second and shoot-third mentality. He's in Kobe mode, and I don't know whether that's a good thing.
snowdenscold
11-21-2011, 06:30 PM
Which is worse: Plumlee FT shooting or Tennessee 3-pt shooting?
I'm just happy to have a lead at the half!
I'm glad that Austin is skilled and confident, but I'm getting an unsettling feeling about his shoot-first, shoot-second and shoot-third mentality. He's in Kobe mode, and I don't know whether that's a good thing.
Yeah, he's had quite a few more instances where he's missed a chance to pass for a bucket. He did have the one really nice alley-oop to Mason. But for the most part, I haven't been impressed with his decisionmaking.
The ability is clearly there. Hopefully it's just a matter of time. When it does click, he's going to be amazing. He's already pretty good.
Which is worse: Plumlee FT shooting or Tennessee 3-pt shooting?
Trick question.
Indoor66
11-21-2011, 06:35 PM
Which is worse: Plumlee FT shooting or Tennessee 3-pt shooting?
Yes.
jipops
11-21-2011, 06:35 PM
Yeah, he's had quite a few more instances where he's missed a chance to pass for a bucket. He did have the one really nice alley-oop to Mason. But for the most part, I haven't been impressed with his decisionmaking.
The ability is clearly there. Hopefully it's just a matter of time. When it does click, he's going to be amazing. He's already pretty good.
I also think this is a combination of him being a hyped freshman AND the only player on the floor that can drive to the basket.
slower
11-21-2011, 06:38 PM
Yeah, he's had quite a few more instances where he's missed a chance to pass for a bucket. He did have the one really nice alley-oop to Mason. But for the most part, I haven't been impressed with his decisionmaking.
The ability is clearly there. Hopefully it's just a matter of time. When it does click, he's going to be amazing. He's already pretty good.
Agreed. I guess it can't be easy to go from being The Man (by necessity, much of the time) to analyzing the big picture on every possession. He may be the only member of the team who has to struggle with that, since there are no dominant players left over who he would have to defer to. Everybody else, no matter how dominant they were in high school, always had Nolan and Kyle in front of them as the alpha dogs. Kyrie, to a lesser extent than Austin, had to deal with it, because his talent was clearly on par (at least) with Kyle and Nolan.
I also think this is a combination of him being a hyped freshman AND the only player on the floor that can drive to the basket.
I'm sure the first statement is part of it. The second part really shouldn't be. It's a reason he's driving more - it's not a reason for making bad decisions after driving.
I think another big part of it is that he's not used to the size/athleticism of college frontcourts, and he's not used to the quality of help defense of college frontcourts.
porkpa
11-21-2011, 06:40 PM
Where do they get these clowns to announce the game? One would think they should have done their homework. Several times they have referred to Miles and Mason as the Plumlee twins. Also they keep calling Austin "Doc". He might get there someday, but not today.
Bluedog
11-21-2011, 06:41 PM
While not necessary driving to the hoop, Curry has a really nice pump fake and then dribble past the airborne defender and taking the 12-foot jumper. I feel like he can take advantage of this more often, but I guess his opponents know this move and are careful to prevent it. Quinn has actually shown attempts to get to the rim some this game. I like what I've seen from Quinn. Haven't really seen many post moves from Kelly like we saw from him in China, which has been a bit surprising. I'd also like to see Andre try to get to the rack more - seems like he does it in exhibitions/practice, but during games he's basically been catch and shoot. I guess as long as he's moving when he doesn't have the ball, that's certainly productive, but I really think Andre has more ability to get open looks. His handles aren't the greatest but he often has a speed advantage over his taller defender at the 3. Overall, we're certainly lucky to be up 6 and we closed out the half well. This team is going to be frustrating at times, and really exciting other times (probably like Rivers will be personally). I think it's going to be really fun to watch the growth of this team over the season. The potential is there, but it's young inexperienced talent.
NSDukeFan
11-21-2011, 06:43 PM
Yeah, he's had quite a few more instances where he's missed a chance to pass for a bucket. He did have the one really nice alley-oop to Mason. But for the most part, I haven't been impressed with his decisionmaking.
The ability is clearly there. Hopefully it's just a matter of time. When it does click, he's going to be amazing. He's already pretty good.
I don't think his decision making has been that poor, unless he has decided to miss layups.
Edit: of course he takes a three with a guy in his face to start the second half
sporthenry
11-21-2011, 06:46 PM
I know Rivers' shot isn't as pretty as Dawkins but I don't get all this criticisms about his shot. Yes, he has a bit of a chicken wing that he will have to work out but I thought Scheyer taught us its not about the perfect shot but perfecting your own shot. Michael Redd is one of the best shooters yet his shot almost seems like he is throwing it at times. Dykes just seems to love to harp on his shot. And I don't really think they were ill advised shots, the first one he froze the defender and shot in rhythm, the second one was more of a heat check but you get that once you make one.
I don't think his decision making has been that poor, unless he has decided to miss layups.
The decision to force layups/runners rather than dropping it off to open teammates and the three long 3pt attempts (though two happened to go in) were bad decisions.
I wouldn't complain about missing uncontested layups. But those aren't the ones he's missing.
To be fair, I realize I'm asking a lot. It's not easy to recognize the open man off the dribble. But that's the thing keeping him from being very good and dominant.
El_Diablo
11-21-2011, 06:52 PM
I don't think his decision making has been that poor, unless he has decided to miss layups.
Taking off-balance one-handed shots that don't even draw the rim? Bad decisions. Taking a contested floater on a 1-on-4 break? Bad decision.
Bigger picture...we've had a chance to hold for the last shot of the first half against MSU, Davidson, and Tennessee. After a Rivers turnover that led to short jumper on the other end (MSU), a Rivers turnover that led to 2 made free throws on the other end (Davidson), and a missed Rivers jumper (TN), we have turned those three possessions in to -4 points.
Not to rag on him too much (he is a freshman, after all), but his decisionmaking leaves a lot to be desired.
Bluedog
11-21-2011, 06:56 PM
Well, I don't like to complain about refs, but how the heck was that a foul?! Nobody even touched him. Andre was two feet behind him. Crazy. We need to pick up the intensity - right now.
Well, I don't like to complain about refs, but how the heck was that a foul?! Nobody even touched him. Andre was two feet behind him with his hands at his sides. Crazy. We need to pick up the intensity - right now.
They missed that one badly. It happens, unfortunately. Thankfully it didn't hurt too too bad (definitely stinks to get the additional foul though).
porkpa
11-21-2011, 06:58 PM
Austin is trying to do too much. He needs to realize that there are four other capable guys out there with him.
Good defense from Thornton and Dawkins there.
77devil
11-21-2011, 06:59 PM
Taking off-balance one-handed shots that don't even draw the rim? Bad decisions. Taking a contested floater on a 1-on-4 break? Bad decision.
Bigger picture...we've had a chance to hold for the last shot of the first half against MSU, Davidson, and Tennessee. After a Rivers turnover that led to short jumper on the other end (MSU), a Rivers turnover that led to 2 made free throws on the other end (Davidson), and a missed Rivers jumper (TN), we have turned those three possessions in to -4 points.
Not to rag on him too much (he is a freshman, after all), but his decisionmaking leaves a lot to be desired.
Austin needs to accept the fact that he's not in high school anymore.
Not impressed with Trae Golden at all. Seems like maybe his results this season have been matchup-based.
licc85
11-21-2011, 07:01 PM
Tennessee is being extremely physical out there, I'm glad Coach put Tyler out there now, we need his defense and toughness right now
Announcer fail: "The brothers are getting it done, aren't they? Mason and Marshall..." Oops.
licc85
11-21-2011, 07:07 PM
I hate to say it, but we are playing better basketball right now with Austin on the bench. He's clearly our best playmaker, but he needs to learn how to make more plays for his teammates. On several of his drives, he had a big all alone on the baseline or a shooter open on the wing, and he decided to take it himself. He's gotta learn to keep his head up and look for guys.
chadlee989
11-21-2011, 07:08 PM
Announcer fail: "The brothers are getting it done, aren't they? Mason and Marshall..." Oops.
And the fact that he has been calling them twins
I hate to say it, but we are playing better basketball right now with Austin on the bench. He's clearly our best playmaker, but he needs to learn how to make more plays for his teammates. On several of his drives, he had a big all alone on the baseline or a shooter open on the wing, and he decided to take it himself. He's gotta learn to keep his head up and look for guys.
Yup. He'll learn. That's going to be a key to the season, because we're going to need to figure out how to mesh his individual talents with the team offense.
And the fact that he has been calling them twins
There are three of them! They're triplets!
Thornton is a defensive sparkplug, but he sure does foul a lot. I wonder if the two are irrevocably linked, because it does limit his available minutes.
licc85
11-21-2011, 07:20 PM
Man, Austin is one of the streakiest guys I've ever seen. He can either kill you by making 3 horrible decisions in a row or just go on a tear and just take over the game. I hope there's more of the latter to come . . .
Man, Austin is one of the streakiest guys I've ever seen. He can either kill you by making 3 horrible decisions in a row or just go on a tear and just take over the game. I hope there's more of the latter to come . . .
The blessing and curse of having a player with phenomenal playmaking ability and not-quite-completely-refined decisionmaking skills.
I think Rivers decides whether he's going to pass or shoot before he starts his move. On that play he tried to force a pass to Mason that wasn't there. Most of the second half the drop-off hasn't been there. In the first half, it was there on almost every drive.
davekay1971
11-21-2011, 07:31 PM
The last 10 minutes of this game we've seen exactly what the hype is about for Rivers. He has been simply amazing.
ChrisP
11-21-2011, 07:32 PM
Jeez, looks like we're trying to give it away again. That 3 by Dawkins was really bad - we totally should have run more clock there and he should know better. Then, that unforced turnover by Curry was really bad. I am glad it's early in the season...cuz this team can be very frustrating to watch thus far.
jjasper0729
11-21-2011, 07:32 PM
Totally agree with that assessment. It's as if he get tunnel vision and then can't make the last second adjustment... Yet
I think Rivers decides whether he's going to pass or shoot before he starts his move. On that play he tried to force a pass to Mason that wasn't there. Most of the second half the drop-off hasn't been there. In the first half, it was there on almost every drive.
Gthoma2a
11-21-2011, 07:33 PM
Anybody else feel a little disappointed when you hear that Kyrie looks like he is on another level against pros? Just saying that it would have been nice to get to see him play a little more. I understand, but I still wish it was a little different.
IBleedBlue
11-21-2011, 07:34 PM
Dawkins is phenomenal shooter and can put points on board in a hurry. Jay williams said the other day this is the guy that needs to become assertive and learn to slash and drive. If he can do that, I believe he can be better than Austin Rivers in terms of skill set and scoring.
And in today's game, somehow he was overlooked on a couple of open looks and he dropped his hands in exasperation. It was quite visible. Not sure what's happening there.
I have to say, Ryan kelly looks like a legit NBA prospect but good thing he is a four year guy. He is driving, shooting jumpers, threes and blocking shots AND makes his free throws...
The last 10 minutes of this game we've seen exactly what the hype is about for Rivers. He has been simply amazing.
Yeah, the long stretch on the bench seems to have gotten him going. Before he came back in, I'd have noted (and someone did note) that we were playing better without him. And then he came back in and started hitting everything.
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