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matrixminister
11-18-2011, 01:25 AM
I am not sure how many on here listen to the Dan Patrick Show, but Wednesday Coach K was a guest on the show. When asked about the loss that was the hardest, he mentioned the 1983 Virginia ACC Tournament ("Here's to never forgetting.") loss 109-66. He mentioned that Ralph Samson played the entire game. By show's end, Virginia fans were emailing in the box score where Samson played 14 minutes. For the life of me, I do not believe Coach K was dishonest (as they implied on the show more than once) nor that he was THAT mistaken. Anyone know other facts relating to that game that perhaps shed a light on those comments? I know their must be a clear explanation. I was just wondering if anyone knew what it was.

devildeac
11-18-2011, 07:56 AM
I am not sure how many on here listen to the Dan Patrick Show, but Wednesday Coach K was a guest on the show. When asked about the loss that was the hardest, he mentioned the 1983 Virginia ACC Tournament ("Here's to never forgetting.") loss 109-66. He mentioned that Ralph Samson played the entire game. By show's end, Virginia fans were emailing in the box score where Samson played 14 minutes. For the life of me, I do not believe Coach K was dishonest (as they implied on the show more than once) nor that he was THAT mistaken. Anyone know other facts relating to that game that perhaps shed a light on those comments? I know their must be a clear explanation. I was just wondering if anyone knew what it was.

Just looked it up on godukestatsgeek and the uva fans are correct that Sampson played 14 minutes in the game and scored 18 points. We only trailed by 9 at the half. How in hades did we end up losing by 43 &*%$ points!?

matrixminister
11-18-2011, 08:07 AM
Just looked it up on godukestatsgeek and the uva fans are correct that Sampson played 14 minutes in the game and scored 18 points. We only trailed by 9 at the half. How in hades did we end up losing by 43 &*%$ points!?

Those are the same facts I saw and they mentioned on the show. That is why I am a bit confused about K's comments that Samson played the entire game. I am sure it it nuanced and probably refers to the fact he played in the second half to assure the win. It is just confusing somewhat.

rthomas
11-18-2011, 08:12 AM
Is it possible to determine if Terry Holland put Sampson in at the end of the blowout rather than the scrubs?

PS. Virginia was really good in 1983.

devildeac
11-18-2011, 08:14 AM
Those are the same facts I saw and they mentioned on the show. That is why I am a bit confused about K's comments that Samson played the entire game. I am sure it it nuanced and probably refers to the fact he played in the second half to assure the win. It is just confusing somewhat.

Perhaps it was because he was 7'11" (or something like that [jk]) and when he sat down on the bench his feet and legs were still on the court and it seemed to K that he was still in the game. (I saw Sampson seated in a restaurant booth in the Va Beach area about a decade ago and it seemed like his legs stretched across the aisle and into the next booth.)

OldPhiKap
11-18-2011, 08:21 AM
If K counted the time spent having nightmares about Ralph in that game, I'm sure it adds up to more than 40 minutes.

Sounds like the game may have gotten magnified in his memory over the last 28 years. It happens, especially since K has coached over 1,000 games between that one and today.

Biscuit King
11-18-2011, 09:25 AM
Human memories are often wrong. Sounds like K is just wrong. It's OK to acknowledge that, Duke fans.

slower
11-18-2011, 09:38 AM
Human memories are often wrong. Sounds like K is just wrong. It's OK to acknowledge that, Duke fans.

But, of course, Patrick made a big deal out of it. Because that's what people like him are paid to do.

OldPhiKap
11-18-2011, 09:40 AM
But, of course, Patrick made a big deal out of it. Because that's what people like him are paid to do.

Not sure it's that, as much as needing to fill X hours of air time with just talk. I don't mean that pejoratively -- you gotta fill air time.

devildeac
11-18-2011, 09:41 AM
I kinda like our record vs UVa since that game. "Here's to never forgetting this game." (or something like that ;>)) )

slower
11-18-2011, 09:51 AM
Not sure it's that, as much as needing to fill X hours of air time with just talk. I don't mean that pejoratively -- you gotta fill air time.

semantics.

I know what you mean, though. If you've ever (God forbid) had to listen to Jim Rome or any similar show, it is amazing how repetitive they are. As you say - gotta fill the time. And if they can be controversial, that's just gravy.

stillcrazie
11-18-2011, 09:55 AM
I didn't hear this interview but in the past I've found Dan Patrick to be particularly snarky with/about Coach K. Some have said that that is the kind of relationship they have with each other, but I found it annoying.

OldPhiKap
11-18-2011, 10:06 AM
semantics.



Are you suggesting that Dan Patrick is anti-semantic?

'Cause that's just wrong.



(But I think we are on the same page about the rest). I don't like Rome -- loved when he got smacked down by "Chrissie" a few years back -- but I think he goes out of his way to be a jerk. I do not get that sense with DP -- he is more of a snarky comic (again, not meant pejoratively).

slower
11-18-2011, 10:13 AM
Are you suggesting that Dan Patrick is anti-semantic?

'Cause that's just wrong.



(But I think we are on the same page about the rest). I don't like Rome -- loved when he got smacked down by "Chrissie" a few years back -- but I think he goes out of his way to be a jerk. I do not get that sense with DP -- he is more of a snarky comic (again, not meant pejoratively).

Well, he's not VIRULENTLY anti-semantic, like Lou Holtz. ;);)

rthomas
11-18-2011, 10:20 AM
Coach K probably remembers old game losses much like I remember old girlfriends.

CameronBornAndBred
11-18-2011, 10:20 AM
In the comments section of the "article" written by Andrew Sharp (referenced on the front page), someone says that K likes to bring this game up on occasion.


Another story to add... (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/#) Coach K continually trots out a story about the lowest point in his tenure at Duke being a loss in the ACC Tournament to Virginia, where the Devils got blown out of the gym. When he tells the story, he always mentions that Terry Holland (then UVA coach) left Ralph Sampson in for the entire game, and that really bothered him. He told this story on the Dan Patrick Show this morning, in fact.


I have no idea if it's true that he tells it often, maybe the commenter readjusted his memory after hearing it on DP.

devildeac
11-18-2011, 10:33 AM
Coach K probably remembers old game losses much like I remember old girlfriends.

Did one of your old girlfriends really beat you by 40+ points in a game of 1-on-1 in the past?

(jk)

OldPhiKap
11-18-2011, 10:35 AM
Well, he's not VIRULENTLY anti-semantic

Does this mean that he's not contagious?

I didn't know that you could catch anti-semanticism. There should be another word for that.

sagegrouse
11-18-2011, 11:30 AM
I was at the game in Atlanta. What I remember about the game (maybe it was in the Feinstein book) is that in the locker room after the game Sampson accused the Duke players of playing dirty. Gee, if we hadn't played dirty, would we have lost by 64 points instead of 43?

sagegrouse

Josephd0
11-18-2011, 11:36 AM
I took a few minutes to look at the stats from several of the Duke/Virginia games from that season and from the years when Sampson played. I noticed a few things about games that Duke played against that Virginia team. The first was that in the first match-up between the two teams that year, Sampson played 35 minutes, but the margin of victory was only 13 points. K could have been confusing the two games.

The second thing I noticed was that in the game in question, Sampson ended up with 4 fouls. So even though he probably wasn't on the court for a large chunk of time in that game, he may have played deep into the game, which is probably what K is referencing. Another piece of info that I picked up from my review of the box scores is that Sampson rarely played more than about 25 minutes in almost all of his games against Duke, with the one exception being the above mentioned game. I am sure there may be others, but I didn't look at all the games. Anyway, my point is that for someone who plays only 25 or so minutes a game, it's reasonable to think that he could have been playing late into the game and still only ended up with 14 minutes of playing time due to foul trouble.

The last piece of info I gleaned from this box score is that there are about 4 guys who ended up with about 3-4 minutes of playing time, which suggests to me that Terry Holland played his starters and key backups up until there was only about 3 minutes to go. K's thoughts on this are probably that he should have started playing his bench warmers a little sooner than he did. Seeing as how they won by 43, I tend to agree.

devildeac
11-18-2011, 11:40 AM
I was at the game in Atlanta. What I remember about the game (maybe it was in the Feinstein book) is that in the locker room after the game Sampson accused the Duke players of playing dirty. Gee, if we hadn't played dirty, would we have lost by 64 points instead of 43?

sagegrouse

That's why "Meagher spit in your face" is still funny to this day.

Pomona
11-18-2011, 12:41 PM
If my recall is correct, we never beat Virginia during Ralph's 4 year career and I remember him shooting 3 pointers and dribbling between his legs during some of those games.

OldPhiKap
11-18-2011, 01:04 PM
If my recall is correct, we never beat Virginia during Ralph's 4 year career and I remember him shooting 3 pointers and dribbling between his legs during some of those games.

I don't think the three-point line came in until 1988 or so, but I do not doubt that he was putting up some 15 footers +. Heck, with his wingspan, that's still just a finger-roll.

NSDukeFan
11-18-2011, 01:29 PM
I didn't hear this interview but in the past I've found Dan Patrick to be particularly snarky with/about Coach K. Some have said that that is the kind of relationship they have with each other, but I found it annoying.

I don't listen to Dan Patrick very often but, when I have heard him interviewing coach K, I have found him quite entertaining as he does seem to try to get on coach K for something and coach plays along with him very well, IMO.

dball
11-18-2011, 01:31 PM
I don't think the three-point line came in until 1988 or so, but I do not doubt that he was putting up some 15 footers +. Heck, with his wingspan, that's still just a finger-roll.

ACC used the short line in 82-83 and adopted college standard around 86, IIRC. So, Ralph may have shot some 3 pointers -- don't recall.

Coach K probably meant he played 40 minutes as in he played until the end of the game but I didn't hear the interview.

OldPhiKap
11-18-2011, 10:33 PM
That's why "Meagher spit in your face" is still funny to this day.

I was at that game. If Tom Sheehee isn't in your top-5 most hated ACC players ever, you've missed a true candidate.

devildeac
11-18-2011, 10:48 PM
I was at that game. If Tom Sheehee isn't in your top-5 most hated ACC players ever, you've missed a true candidate.

WTH? Even above Maktar, McInnis, Washington, Larry Brown and, umm, err, ahh, well, OK, he is in the top 5;). (unc players not spell-checked)

OldPhiKap
11-18-2011, 11:20 PM
WTH? Even above Maktar, McInnis, Washington, Larry Brown and, umm, err, ahh, well, OK, he is in the top 5;). (unc players not spell-checked)

1. Makhtar Ndaiye for being a putz race baiter.
2. J.R. Reid for being a big-butt big butt.
3. Tom Sheehey. Self-explanatory.
4. Deron Washington. Thug.
5. Tom Sheehey. 'Cause Dan only spit in his face once.

devildeac
11-19-2011, 07:15 AM
1. Makhtar Ndaiye for being a putz race baiter.
2. J.R. Reid for being a big-butt big butt.
3. Tom Sheehey. Self-explanatory.
4. Deron Washington. Thug.
5. Tom Sheehey. 'Cause Dan only spit in his face once.

Well, we agree on 3 but ya just can't have Sheehey on there twice:rolleyes:. Larry Brown's gotta be on the list for him instigating/invoking the fight with "Ahtie" before our time. Didn't think J.R. was that hated, butt (sic) I guess you/he "can't Reid/read.";)

OldPhiKap
11-19-2011, 10:33 AM
Well, we agree on 3 but ya just can't have Sheehey on there twice:rolleyes:.

It was a compromise, I wanted to list Sheehey three times.

I was at the JR Can't Read game, as well as the one where Dan Meagher, er, spit in Sheehey's face. Neither as good as the "In Hale-Ex Hale" game in '86 where we clinched the ACC on senior night.

Gotta love Cameron.

devildeac
11-19-2011, 05:56 PM
It was a compromise, I wanted to list Sheehey three times.

I was at the JR Can't Read game, as well as the one where Dan Meagher, er, spit in Sheehey's face. Neither as good as the "In Hale-Ex Hale" game in '86 where we clinched the ACC on senior night.

Gotta love Cameron.

My daughter roomed with Dr. Hale's daughter during one session of summer school a couple years ago. She howled when I told her the "In Hale, Ex Hale" story.:D

OldPhiKap
11-19-2011, 07:23 PM
My daughter roomed with Dr. Hale's daughter during one session of summer school a couple years ago. She howled when I told her the "In Hale, Ex Hale" story.:D

If I recall correctly, he was sitting on the bench next to Joe Wolf at the time. Both seemed very amused.

jimsumner
11-19-2011, 08:30 PM
If you're looking for candidates for most-hated, let me remind people that John Roche and John Ribock played for South Carolina, when they were in the ACC. Roche was a great talent but a smug, cheap-shot artist,and Ribock was his protector.

"Dirty" Dan Wells earned his nickname at State.

Dave Budd, at Wake, was a hockey enforcer. Kick sand in your face and dis your mama.