Austin Rivers' development

[wncdevilfan]

I know he will eventually get there. You can see the talent level. But does anyone besides me think Austin is trying too hard?? I believe he will be a great player, but he is just trying to do so much right now. Just a freshman making freshman mistakes? Or is there more to it?

[Andy7207]

I know he will eventually get there. You can see the talent level. But does anyone besides me think Austin is trying too hard?? I believe he will be a great player, but he is just trying to do so much right now. Just a freshman making freshman mistakes? Or is there more to it?

Definitely just a freshman making freshman mistakes. He's allowed to have a bad game or two... and he wasn't even that bad.

[OldPhiKap]

Freshman who needs to learn that what he could do single-handedly in high school doesn't work at this next level.

And, that he's on a team where he doesn't need to.

He will be great, and can get into the lane at will. Needs to learn to pull up and to kick out.

[roywhite]

Definitely just a freshman making freshman mistakes. He's allowed to have a bad game or two... and he wasn't even that bad.

If he's lucky, Austin will get half as much slack as Harrison Barnes got last year from commentators in his adjustment to big-time college basketball.

And I suspect Austin will get his game in gear sooner than Barnes did.

[Andy7207]

Freshman who needs to learn that what he could do single-handedly in high school doesn't work at this next level.

And, that he's on a team where he doesn't need to.

He will be great, and can get into the lane at will. Needs to learn to pull up and to kick out.

To be honest I thought he did a good job all game of not forcing it. I actually think our guys are getting into "stand and watch" mode when he drives, which doesn't make it easy for him to find an open kickout.

Just looking at his last attempt, he didn't really have a good second option... didn't have a passing lane to Mason underneath the basket, Ryan wasn't open in the corner, and it seemed like Andre was supposed to be in the corner but maybe was keeping back in case of a long rebound (probably a good decision, given the game situation). Also it was late in the shot clock because we were playing stall ball, so not a lot of time for him.

[zack2014]

I think this game will be good for him. When you consider that he played pretty poorly and we still came away with a win I think you have to be happy. Also he now has the winningest coach ever to help him develop more.

[dukebballcamper90-91]

He's got to understand that the guys playing defense were McDonald's AA also. With his ability to get to the basket, he should look more for the lob to MP1 or MP2. He needs to watch KI#1 from last year. Our bigs played above the rim with him running the point.

[jv001]

To be honest I thought he did a good job all game of not forcing it. I actually think our guys are getting into "stand and watch" mode when he drives, which doesn't make it easy for him to find an open kickout.Just looking at his last attempt, he didn't really have a good second option... didn't have a passing lane to Mason underneath the basket, Ryan wasn't open in the corner, and it seemed like Andre was supposed to be in the corner but maybe was keeping back in case of a long rebound (probably a good decision, given the game situation). Also it was late in the shot clock because we were playing stall ball, so not a lot of time for him.

There may be some instances where guys were standing and watching Austin drive the ball. But on one play that Austin drove and was tied up or the ball stolen, his first impulse was to give Ryan a hard look. Then he realized it was his mistake and he tapped his chest as to say "my fault". Austin seems to be able to get to the basket but gets his shot blocked or just misses the attempt. I wish he would look at Kyrie tapes and see how strong he went to the basket. Both of these players have the ability to get in the lane, but Austin hasn't shown the ability to finish. Looks like he's waiting for a foul to be called. GoDuke!

[Wander]

I think he's kind of awkwardly caught between trying to fulfill his reputation as an awesome scorer and being a good teammate. When he gets the ball, it's either a drive right to the basket for a shot/foul/turnover, or a pass around the perimeter before he starts driving, with not much in between. It's like he's already decided what he wants to do with the ball beforehand.

I'm not worried though, he'll get there. And as many others have pointed out, it's good for both Austin and the other players to see that we can beat a good team with Rivers having a poor game.

[wncdevilfan]

Yeah, I agree with what you guys are saying. He reminds me alot of Kyrie getting to the basket, but has some trouble finishing. Kyrie didn't, and it was pretty amazing. Still though, Austin is getting fouled alot and he does a good job hitting his free throws. I think he is finding out that he is not driving against high school kids anymore. IMO though, he is doing a great job so far, and is an asset to our team. I like what I'm seeing from the kid. He would benifit greatly by watching some Kyrie tape.

[Indoor66]

I seem to recall that he only drove right last night. I kept looking for him to go left. Did anyone else see this or was I mistaken?

[COYS]

I seem to recall that he only drove right last night. I kept looking for him to go left. Did anyone else see this or was I mistaken?

He went left a couple times, but he definitely prefers to go right, which is the scouting report on him. I think that he's gotta learn to start using his pull-up more frequently rather than trying the off balance leaners, floaters, and half-layups. But honestly, I'm not worried about Austin. The better Seth, Andre, Mason, and Ryan play, the easier it will be for Austin to learn without being the focus of opposing defenses.

[dukeballboy88]

Austin is in the perfect place to develope his complete game. Alot of coaches would enable bad habits to continue because of who Austin is but not K. He has the skill set on the court, now once K helps develope the mental aspect of basketball, Austin will be very tough contain.

I agree with dukebballcamper90-91, once he beats his man to the basket as he has shown he can do, the defender on the block instinctively will slide over to help therefore creating the lob opportunity or possibly a kick out for a wide open 3. His ability to get to the basket is huge.

[Kedsy]

He went left a couple times, but he definitely prefers to go right, which is the scouting report on him. I think that he's gotta learn to start using his pull-up more frequently rather than trying the off balance leaners, floaters, and half-layups. But honestly, I'm not worried about Austin. The better Seth, Andre, Mason, and Ryan play, the easier it will be for Austin to learn without being the focus of opposing defenses.

This is a great point. Someone in the MOTM thread suggested defenses would have to key on Andre from now on. If opponents are forced to do this, combined with the fact that they can't leave Seth, Ryan, or Mason alone either, then Austin will be facing single coverage without a lot of help available, which most of the time will mean a whole lot of layups (and threes, once he calms his shot down a little). I join those who are not worried.

[dukebballcamper90-91]

Drive and kick

[NSDukeFan]

There may be some instances where guys were standing and watching Austin drive the ball. But on one play that Austin drove and was tied up or the ball stolen, his first impulse was to give Ryan a hard look. Then he realized it was his mistake and he tapped his chest as to say "my fault". Austin seems to be able to get to the basket but gets his shot blocked or just misses the attempt. I wish he would look at Kyrie tapes and see how strong he went to the basket. Both of these players have the ability to get in the lane, but Austin hasn't shown the ability to finish. Looks like he's waiting for a foul to be called. GoDuke!

My impression is that Austin can beat his man almost whenever he wants. The problem is that he doesn't always see the best opportunities to penetrate based on where the help side is, and help side defenders are much quicker in college than in high school or AAU basketball. He also hasn't figured out where to find his options quickly when the double team comes. I expect this is part of the learning curve he is going through and expect he will improve in these areas as the year goes on and may end up using the nice pull up tear drop off the glass he used in the second half. After some negative articles early on about his demeanor or body language, I have been very impressed with the way he has played and the way he seems to take advice well and change his game. He has also seemed very much to be a team player. I am very excited to see how he improves this year.

[MulletMan]

Many of the comments in this tread are dead on. He does need to learn the game, and like many players making the jump from HS (where they were THE star) to major conference college ball, its a bit of a transition. I have a feeling that what a poster said earlier, about some coaches enabling bad habits, is why Austin is here at Duke... because Doc knows that K won't enable those bad habits, but will break them and teach Austin to be a better team player.

We've seen this before with players like Will Avery, Jason Williams, etc... guys who had immense physical gifts but needed to learn how to let the game come to them. I will assert that I disagree that Austin is anything like Irving. Irving was quicker and stronger with the ball. Austin's game should be a little different. He also doesn't (yet) have the vision needed to be a true drive and dish threat when the drive is cut off. As someone said above, he's already made up his mind about what he's doing before he makes his move. He will get better... you can see he wants to get better, and is frustrated. I think that is a good thing. If he didn't appear to care about his struggles, I'd be worried.

And besides... better to peak in March than in December, right?

[dukebballcamper90-91]

and besides... Better to peak in march than in december, right?

amen!:d

[wilko]

Austin is learning how to be a game "closer". Be patient.

He has a steep learning curve making the transition from HS phenom to a college player. He is talented and smart so odds are VERY good that he will become a VERY good college player sooner or later.

We all hope for sooner... but look at the spots in the game(s) where he tries to take over...

Belmont - late up by a lot - a couple of blown conversions make the game closer than it has to be.
MSU up by a lot and a few blown conversions make the game closer than it has to be.


The common element is Austin in the game late forcing the issue. BY DESIGN. Sooner or later the game will be tight and our success in that game WILL be thru Austins Go-to move. Better he learn how to convert NOW, in games we have some breathing room. than blowing the game untested. Personally. I think AR just needs a few to go down for some confidence.

Early in the MSU game he was doing a few "takes" on drives and got the benefit of the whistle after some contact. In the 2nd half, the whistle was slower to come. If he gets a few of those to go down or manages a nifty pass (a'la MP2 to RK) for a better shot more the better. Then we'll start to see the real AR. For now, hes learning, sticking to the game-plan script.

Many folks here bemoan stall ball. To that I say: 903; cant have it both ways... and to that end I have every confidence Austin is being developed to BE that GUY when the game is on the line. We may grumble "Austin cost us a 1 point win instead of a 16 point win" or whatever... but when the game is tied and he makes the winning bucket, look back to this point in the process. Its taking root here. Here; is how you get there...

[Mike Corey]

Austin just needs to play within the offense. He is a tremendous penetrator, but he's not infallible when he penetrates as far into the paint as he does; he's not accustomed to that just yet.

He'll figure it out.

He'll also figure out that you don't chastise officials every time a call doesn't go your way.

I love the fire. I love that he's a Blue Devil. I love that we're going to see him go from where he's at now to where he will be in March.

[COYS]

I love the fire. I love that he's a Blue Devil. I love that we're going to see him go from where he's at now to where he will be in March.

I also love that this team is talented enough to win a game like the one last night with Austin only chipping in 5 points. Not only will Austin get better, but he play through mistakes and the team can win at the same time.

Boy, when it clicks for Austin, it's going to be pretty. Let's not forget that he had some flashy finishes through contact in the Presbyterian game. The Spartans are a different level of physical, of course, but as soon as he gets used to that level of physicality, watch out!

[Mike Corey]

Terrific points.

This is an extremely talented team. I suspect that we'll have many different leading scorers from game to game until after the first of the year.

Thus far, it's been Rivers/Curry, Kelly and Dawkins.

Guys have stepped up. We have a lot of competitors, and a lot of ability. The deficiencies are both individual and collective, but you said it: it's not too shabby when our "best" offensive weapon can struggle mightily and our team can still find more than a few ways to win.

[trinity92]

Yeah, I agree with what you guys are saying. He reminds me alot of Kyrie getting to the basket, but has some trouble finishing. Kyrie didn't, and it was pretty amazing. Still though, Austin is getting fouled alot and he does a good job hitting his free throws. I think he is finding out that he is not driving against high school kids anymore. IMO though, he is doing a great job so far, and is an asset to our team. I like what I'm seeing from the kid. He would benifit greatly by watching some Kyrie tape.

Actually, early in the season last year, Kyrie was getting to the rim at will but having a little difficulty finishing too. Remember, we're only 3 games into the schedule. I'm really not worried about Austin at all.

[airowe]

If he's lucky, Austin will get half as much slack as Harrison Barnes got last year from commentators in his adjustment to big-time college basketball.

And I suspect Austin will get his game in gear sooner than Barnes did.

He already has hasn't he? ;)

Until we see an 0-12 from the field, 0-3 from three point land game like Barnes had in his third game in college, I'll keep thinking that.

Austin is a very talented player and has nowhere near reached his potential. That's why he came to Duke, specifically, to be taught the full game by Coach K. I've heard people say Austin needs to get "broken down" and built back up again by Coach K. I think that's true to an extent but it won't kick in until Austin lets it happen. I think he's on his way.

[smvalkyries]

Austin will be fine - he is just a freshman albeit a very talented one give him time to learn and grow. The thing I can't stand is watching his form as he shoots free throws with his right elbow flailing almost perpendicular to his arm. It must have taken him 3 times as much practice to achieve consistency that way vis a vis someone with good form. I guess that's what makes people like Coach K and Doc Rivers great coaches- they can let their players be themselves but honestly I do wonder how Doc Rivers never corrected Austin's shooting form early in his childhood? as ugly as Austin's shooting form is he does make it work for him and it does not matter at all that I cringe every time as he continues to sink free throw after free throw- maybe given enough time I too can come to accept it

[moonpie23]

remember how well Nolan Smith developed....

austin will come around..

[trinity92]

remember how well Nolan Smith developed....

austin will come around..

He will, but I think some of the impatience, or hand wringing, or whatever you'd call it, is that Austin doesn't have 3 years to become what he's going to become at Duke. His timeline is much shorter.

[Indoor66]

He will, but I think some of the impatience, or hand wringing, or whatever you'd call it, is that Austin doesn't have 3 years to become what he's going to become at Duke. His timeline is much shorter.

Sometimes our timelines and reality do not coincide.

[wilko]

He will, but I think some of the impatience, or hand wringing, or whatever you'd call it, is that Austin doesn't have 3 years to become what he's going to become at Duke. His timeline is much shorter.

We don't know that as an absolute yet.
While Austin has been vocal about his desire to be 1-n-Done, until the NBA sorts itself out with any possible rules changes to impact this, NO ONE can say anything with certainty on this point.

My guess is that if Rivers stays for yr2 (whatever the reason) then SM moves on..

[Kedsy]

My guess is that if Rivers stays for yr2 (whatever the reason) then SM moves on..

Which would be fine, since SM is a one-and-done, too.

[ncexnyc]

Way to much thinking going on here. The kid will be fine, the ability is so obvious why all this analysis?

[Billy Dat]

From afar, it actually seems like K is in the "build Austin up" stage right now. His comments about him over the past few games have been positive, and there was a moment in the second half when Austin got stripped on a drive, but we kept the ball, when K quickly called him over to the bench, gave him some encouragement and a seemingly affectionate attaboy slap with the intent being - keep at it! I think K knows we need Austin to be aggressive on offense, is willing to live with aggressive mistakes, and wants him to keep putting pressure on the other team's D.

[wilko]

Way to much thinking going on here. The kid will be fine, the ability is so obvious why all this analysis?

For my part...
It not analysis so much as stating the obvious in a pro-active manner to discourage the "chicken-little's" from coming out of the woodwork because we didn't win by 30.

[Mike Corey]

It's been three games.

Next play. Not next season.

[sagegrouse]

I know he will eventually get there. You can see the talent level. But does anyone besides me think Austin is trying too hard?? I believe he will be a great player, but he is just trying to do so much right now. Just a freshman making freshman mistakes? Or is there more to it?

Austin Rivers' mistake was to follow Kyrie Irving who, over a limited season of 11 games, was the best freshman guard in Duke history. And, except possibly for Elton Brand, the best freshman in Duke history. It is completely unfair to expect any other freshman to be as good. (But it is not unfair to insist that Austin be a lot healthier!)

Austin is averaging 12.0 PPG through three games, so it isn't like he's hiding somewhere or afraid to mix it up. If he remains aggressive, he'll become more efficient. I personally am not looking for him to score so much as to have him penetrate and give the ball to the big guys for easy shots.

sagegrouse

[DukieInBrasil]

Austin is averaging 12.0 PPG through three games, so it isn't like he's hiding somewhere or afraid to mix it up. If he remains aggressive, he'll become more efficient. I personally am not looking for him to score so much as to have him penetrate and give the ball to the big guys for easy shots.

sagegrouse
Full agreement. When he learns that, the whole team will become exponentially better.

[Grounded]

Austin Rivers' mistake was to follow Kyrie Irving who, over a limited season of 11 games, was the best freshman guard in Duke history. And, except possibly for Elton Brand, the best freshman in Duke history. It is completely unfair to expect any other freshman to be as good. (But it is not unfair to insist that Austin be a lot healthier!)

I came to Duke after Elton had already left (fall of 1999), so I never got to see him play. Watching Jason Williams play was amazing though...what a strong guard. I would certainly put him at / near the top of the list for best freshman guards.

I was lucky enough to see Kyrie play in Portland and at the Sweet 16 and he is clearly something special. But, wow, Jason Williams is someone who I wish could have seen a lot more of during the past 7 or 8 years. He was really, really good... :)

Back to the topic...Austin will be fine. He's forcing things and complaining a bit, but big deal. Coach K will get him to settle down (you could see him talking to him one on one last night at times) and he'll find his groove. His first step and change of speed...man, it'll be amazing to watch when he stays strong through the finish and balls start falling through the net.

[Andy7207]

I think he's kind of awkwardly caught between trying to fulfill his reputation as an awesome scorer and being a good teammate. When he gets the ball, it's either a drive right to the basket for a shot/foul/turnover, or a pass around the perimeter before he starts driving, with not much in between.

See, when I watch him either drive or pass around the perimeter, I consider that "playing within the offense," which seems to be the key phrase that people are throwing around. What else is he supposed to do? I'm guessing that's exactly what Coach K wants.



He'll also figure out that you don't chastise officials every time a call doesn't go your way.

I actually thought he's been great about the attitude! Not a lot of talking after plays, less staring-down of opponents, no technicals. Have I missed something? So far I think he's left that all in high school.

[Billy Dat]

Interesting K Leadership article with a passage that, I feel, applies to Rivers this year:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-leadership/post/coach-ks-leadership-abcs/2011/04/01/gIQAkIpPUN_blog.html

"Be your best player’s best friend. Krzyzewski is cautious about the role stars play on teams. “It is true that your best player can lead you to the Promised Land, but your most talented player can also lead you to the junk pile.” Their outsized influence on the team means that even if they’re good, their character still matters more. But once leaders settle on a talented player they’re going to back, they have to really get behind them. “Being the best player is a lonely position. Even though you get accolades, no matter how good of a team you have, there is always some level of jealousy. …I want to make sure that I’m connected with that guy because in a tense moment he also might produce better knowing that he’s not out there alone.”
When Krzyzewski was coaching the men’s Olympic basketball team, Krzyzewski says Los Angeles Lakers star Kobe Bryant told his youngest daughter, “‘Since I was in high school, nobody has tried to motivate me, they just pay me.’ But ‘your dad and his staff try to motivate us every day, and that’s so refreshing.’ Leadership is not just to let the star produce, but to be a friend of the star, to motivate the star. Your team is going to go a lot further if your stars push ahead, and everybody else has to work to catch up.”

Many will argue that Austin is not our star, and that is true right now, but I think he's our most talented player. We don't know what the chemistry situation is on the team this year, but I get the feeling that K is really trying to bring Rivers along with a velvet glove rather than tough love.

[Devilsfan]

I for one think that given time Austin will be unbelievable. But for right now everyone seems to realize that there is no D in the spelling of Austin Rivers. Also "you aren't in a private high school anymore". K not wanting to spoil a special night took him out before he took himself out with his fifth foul. He then realized how this young man was pressing before his Dad and others in the historic setting of the "Garden" on a special night and gave him a hug. Truly a nice gesture. Right now he looks more like a Calipari kid, talent laden but undisciplined than a Coach K team player. That will change and I can't wait to see him then! As for the Ky fans, if Md fans had illegitimate children they would all grow up cheering for Kentucky. I never thought I would see lower class fans than those from Maryland but Tuesday night in MSG I was proven wrong. go Devils!

[elvis14]

I'm pretty happy with what I've seen from Austin, a freshman starter, so far this season. Sure he has room for improvement but I love his aggressiveness on offense. I hope he continues to attack the rim at will. He'll make it to the line a lot this season and I bet his passing (both interior and kick outs) will get better as the season progresses. On the defensive end, I feel like I've already seen improvement and we've only played some exhibitions and 3 games. If he can hit a few 3's to keep guys honest, he'll have an even easier time getting in the paint. I'd like to see him finish better and complain a bit less to officials but overall, I think he's a great freshman. Sometimes I'm worried that guys think he's Nolan's replacement or Kyrie's and that's not fair. Nolan was a senior and Kyrie was just so good immediately.

[Waynne]

Austin has the luxury of being surrounded by very talented players, which means he doesn't have to be the man every game. He has the space and time to develop his awesome talent, because he doesn't have to be a star right away. That's one of the reasons why Duke is such a good place for him. Austin will push himself to be great, but when he has a bad game it's a positive learning experience for him that he can build on because other players will carry the team while he's developing. And when he finally gets it going, watch out!