Classy Move By Tom Izzo

[NYC Duke Fan]

By not fouling with about 7 seconds left and letting Coach K get the record. Izzo is a class act

[DueBlevil]

No one "let" anyone get anything. He called off the fouls because it was futile at that point

[Newton_14]

By not fouling with about 7 seconds left and letting Coach K get the record. Izzo is a class act


No one "let" anyone get anything. He called off the fouls because it was futile at that point

Yeah, I suppose that statement did not come out quite the way intended? I agree Izzo is classy and not fouling there at the very end was a good idea. It would only have delayed the inevitable. There was no "letting Duke win". Had it been a 3 point or less lead at that point, MSU would have fouled without question.

[OldPhiKap]

I like Izzo, and glad to see us step up to the level of physical play.

They will be tough if we see them again in March.

[moonpie23]

They will be tough if we see them again in March.

so will duke...

[uh_no]

so will duke...

but our chances of running into duke in the tournament are rather slim :P

[wncdevilfan]

Izzo is a class act IMO. One of my favorite coaches. His teams always play hard, (sometimes too physical) basketball. You know if you draw Michigan St. its gonna be a fight to the end. Huggins and Tark always left me feeling like we got hit below the belt.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

I have to say I was disappointed to see some pretty tacky behavior from this Izzo team. Surprising. I thought he ran a better ship than that. There are a couple of other coaches out there now who have passed him on my list of faves.
Love, Ima

[SCMatt33]

It actually looked like he was going to give up with over a minute left. He had put in guys like Russel Byrd and Alex Gauna to finish the game out, but yanked them after the foul on the three pointer and the four point play on the rebound. I'm pretty sure if that foul didn't happen, he was going to let the game go.

[subzero02]

By not fouling with about 7 seconds left and letting Coach K get the record. Izzo is a class act

Seth Curry was fouled bringing the ball upcourt, it just wasn't called by the refs. This no call was especially frustrating if you placed a perfectly legal bet in Las Vegas with a spread of Duke -7... Although not as frustrating as Duke turning the ball over constantly in the final minutes.

[BD80]

I enjoyed the close-up of Izzo in the last minute or so when a call was made in front of Duke's bench after Duke had beaten the press and one on the Spartan big men flew by/into the Duke ballhandler. Izzo called the off-ref over, and shielding his mouth from the mikes on the scorer's table - but not the cross-court camera. and in a low tone called the ref by name and said "that was b___-s___" Still working 'till the end.

[bjornolf]

I have to say I was disappointed to see some pretty tacky behavior from this Izzo team. Surprising. I thought he ran a better ship than that. There are a couple of other coaches out there now who have passed him on my list of faves.
Love, Ima

The only one I saw that I thought was really "dirty" and not just playing hard was the guy that knelt on Thornton's head and used it to take out Curry's (or was it River's) ankle. Were there other dirty plays I missed?

[JMarley50]

The only one I saw that I thought was really "dirty" and not just playing hard was the guy that knelt on Thornton's head and used it to take out Curry's (or was it River's) ankle. Were there other dirty plays I missed?

Nix elbowing Dre in the stomach when he went to box out on the freethrow. Bilas said it was unintentional, but looked to me like he balled up his fist and swung his elbow backwards as he stepped in front of Dre. It's part of basketball I suppose, but it was definitely done on purpose.

Tyler also took what could have been a cheap shot in the shoulder. I couldn't tell for sure from the camera angles. But it looked like the kid threw a little something extra in as he bumped into Tyler.

What killed me is the refs missed both of those, yet called a technical on Mason for putting his arm in the guys side. Mason did extend his arm and everything. But I still thought that should have been a no call. He barely touched him.

[CDu]

Nix elbowing Dre in the stomach when he went to box out on the freethrow. Bilas said it was unintentional, but looked to me like he balled up his fist and swung his elbow backwards as he stepped in front of Dre. It's part of basketball I suppose, but it was definitely done on purpose.

That one definitely toed the line between "hard box out" and "dirty."


Tyler also took what could have been a cheap shot in the shoulder. I couldn't tell for sure from the camera angles. But it looked like the kid threw a little something extra in as he bumped into Tyler.

That one looked incidental to me. Dawson was running back downcourt and Thornton was sliding over to get open, and the two collided. It was unfortunate, but that happens all the time - it just happened that the point of contact was right on Thornton's shoulder.


What killed me is the refs missed both of those, yet called a technical on Mason for putting his arm in the guys side. Mason did extend his arm and everything. But I still thought that should have been a no call. He barely touched him.

I realize we're Duke fans, but you're underselling the chippiness of what Mason did. It was a dead ball situation, and Mason clearly extended his forearm to shove an airborn player. He didn't hit him hard, but he also didn't "barely touch him." It wasn't a lot, but it was completely unnecessary and chippy and warranted the foul call. And in college basketball, if you commit a foul in dead ball situation, it's automatically a technical.

[jv001]

That one definitely toed the line between "hard box out" and "dirty."



That one looked incidental to me. Dawson was running back downcourt and Thornton was sliding over to get open, and the two collided. It was unfortunate, but that happens all the time - it just happened that the point of contact was right on Thornton's shoulder.



I realize we're Duke fans, but you're underselling the chippiness of what Mason did. It was a dead ball situation, and Mason clearly extended his forearm to shove an airborn player. He didn't hit him hard, but he also didn't "barely touch him." It wasn't a lot, but it was completely unnecessary and chippy and warranted the foul call. And in college basketball, if you commit a foul in dead ball situation, it's automatically a technical.

Mason's foul and then Miles 2 fouls(one a tech) go in the low basketball IQ ledger. Mile's last two fouls showed desperation on his part. GoDuke!

[devildeac]

That one definitely toed the line between "hard box out" and "dirty."



That one looked incidental to me. Dawson was running back downcourt and Thornton was sliding over to get open, and the two collided. It was unfortunate, but that happens all the time - it just happened that the point of contact was right on Thornton's shoulder.



I realize we're Duke fans, but you're underselling the chippiness of what Mason did. It was a dead ball situation, and Mason clearly extended his forearm to shove an airborn player. He didn't hit him hard, but he also didn't "barely touch him." It wasn't a lot, but it was completely unnecessary and chippy and warranted the foul call. And in college basketball, if you commit a foul in dead ball situation, it's automatically a technical.

WRT our Thornton, I think the missed foul the earlier poster was referring to was the loose ball on the sidelines where a MSU player dove/plunged knee first into the pile, right into Tyler's head.

[uh_no]

WRT our Thornton, I think the missed foul the earlier poster was referring to was the loose ball on the sidelines where a MSU player dove/plunged knee first into the pile, right into Tyler's head.

I thought the msu got tripped up a bit, making it look worse than it would have otherwise, but I haven't seen the replay.

[MulletMan]

Really? Some hard fouls and we've got dirty play? C'mon people. Izzo is a good, clean coach with a great respect for the game, Duke's program and Coach K.

Dirty is Chris Paul punching Julius Hodge in the testicles. Dirty is Chris Paul punching Daniel Ewing on the bottom of a pile up for a ball.

Hard fouls in the course of a tough physical game are not dirty. Quit whining. This is why people hate Duke fans.

[sraj]

Really? Some hard fouls and we've got dirty play? C'mon people. Izzo is a good, clean coach with a great respect for the game, Duke's program and Coach K.

Dirty is Chris Paul punching Julius Hodge in the testicles. Dirty is Chris Paul punching Daniel Ewing on the bottom of a pile up for a ball.

Hard fouls in the course of a tough physical game are not dirty. Quit whining. This is why people hate Duke fans.

Big man piledriving a point guard's head into the floor with his knee is not dirty? Agree to disagree.

[alteran]

Really? Some hard fouls and we've got dirty play? C'mon people. Izzo is a good, clean coach with a great respect for the game, Duke's program and Coach K.

Dirty is Chris Paul punching Julius Hodge in the testicles. Dirty is Chris Paul punching Daniel Ewing on the bottom of a pile up for a ball.

Hard fouls in the course of a tough physical game are not dirty. Quit whining. This is why people hate Duke fans.

The knee on Thornton didn't just cross the line into dirty, it was dangerous as well. It just got missed. I agree that Chris Paul sets the bar for ACC thuggery, but the nut-punch was nowhere near as dangerous as what Nix did. Putting your weight on / near someone's head and c-spine is just inexcusable. It looked bad in real-time, but the replay was damning.

I agree with the comments about Izzo. His players generally play hard and clean, and what Nix did is the exception. I imagine Nix is going to get an earful from his Coach.

Still, I think a one-game suspension is warranted in this case. There's just no excuse for that.

[feldspar]

Really? Some hard fouls and we've got dirty play? C'mon people. Izzo is a good, clean coach with a great respect for the game, Duke's program and Coach K.

Dirty is Chris Paul punching Julius Hodge in the testicles. Dirty is Chris Paul punching Daniel Ewing on the bottom of a pile up for a ball.

Hard fouls in the course of a tough physical game are not dirty. Quit whining. This is why people hate Duke fans.

Oh please. <content redacted> Nix's knee to the head of Tyler Thornton was clearly a dirty play that send Tyler to the bench in pain. Add that on top of some of the other questionable stuff that went on last night, and I see a team that likes to play dirty, consequences be damned. That's not whining. That's a genuine concern for the health of our players.

[killerleft]

Oh please. <content redacted> Nix's knee to the head of Tyler Thornton was clearly a dirty play that send Tyler to the bench in pain. Add that on top of some of the other questionable stuff that went on last night, and I see a team that likes to play dirty, consequences be damned. That's not whining. That's a genuine concern for the health of our players.

I have to agree 100%. Watching the replay only emphasizes just how bad that punk play could have turned out. That being said, I thought that Duke responded very well at the first of the game. Michigan State was definitely testing Mason, Miles, and Ryan to see how tough they were. Our guys passed the test, and the frustration shown by MSU big men later in the game was the result. Izzo is a classy guy, IMHO, and I bet the MSU big men will learn from this game how to better channel their emotions.

[dukemsu]

I have to agree 100%. Watching the replay only emphasizes just how bad that punk play could have turned out. That being said, I thought that Duke responded very well at the first of the game. Michigan State was definitely testing Mason, Miles, and Ryan to see how tough they were. Our guys passed the test, and the frustration shown by MSU big men later in the game was the result. Izzo is a classy guy, IMHO, and I bet the MSU big men will learn from this game how to better channel their emotions.
Nix will be dealt with today on this, I would guess. I don't think Izzo saw it live. Nix has a tendency to show immaturity and frustration. I would think the Duke office will hear from the MSU office about this today.
Terrible play. Dukemsu

[CDu]

WRT our Thornton, I think the missed foul the earlier poster was referring to was the loose ball on the sidelines where a MSU player dove/plunged knee first into the pile, right into Tyler's head.

Pretty sure the poster was talking about a separate play late in the game, as he referenced the shoulder and bumping into Thornton, which happened toward the end of the game.

The knee to the head definitely appeared intentional and dirty. But I think the poster was discussing two separate incidents in his/her post.

[CDu]

Really? Some hard fouls and we've got dirty play? C'mon people. Izzo is a good, clean coach with a great respect for the game, Duke's program and Coach K.

Dirty is Chris Paul punching Julius Hodge in the testicles. Dirty is Chris Paul punching Daniel Ewing on the bottom of a pile up for a ball.

Hard fouls in the course of a tough physical game are not dirty. Quit whining. This is why people hate Duke fans.

I assume you didn't see the play where Nix "fell" on Thornton's face? Normally, I agree that the whining is excessive. But it looks pretty clear that Nix took an opportunity to "fall" on a player on the ground and take out some frustration on said player.

To clarify - this is not a reflection on Izzo, who I think is a very classy coach. This is a particular player losing his cool and doing something dirty.

There's a difference between hard fouls (which both MSU and Duke are willing to give, and aren't dirty) and Nix's knee to Thornton's face.

[devildeac]

Pretty sure the poster was talking about a separate play late in the game, as he referenced the shoulder and bumping into Thornton, which happened toward the end of the game.

The knee to the head definitely appeared intentional and dirty. But I think the poster was discussing two separate incidents in his/her post.

That's what I thought on both accounts. The shoulder/bump did not even cross my radar. The knee to the head, especially on the replay appeared just about as you and other posters have described it. Not meant to call Izzo "dirty" either. Just an overly aggressive, dangerous play.

[MulletMan]

I assume you didn't see the play where Nix "fell" on Thornton's face? Normally, I agree that the whining is excessive. But it looks pretty clear that Nix took an opportunity to "fall" on a player on the ground and take out some frustration on said player.

To clarify - this is not a reflection on Izzo, who I think is a very classy coach. This is a particular player losing his cool and doing something dirty.

There's a difference between hard fouls (which both MSU and Duke are willing to give, and aren't dirty) and Nix's knee to Thornton's face.

I clearly need to rewatch this on the DVR tonight. And if I missed this then mea culpa, however, my original points still stand... outside of this particular play there wasn't anything "dirty" going on. And as you note, this play, which I guess was pretty bad, is certainly not a reflection on Izzo or his values/standards as a coach.

[OldPhiKap]

Nix will be dealt with today on this, I would guess. I don't think Izzo saw it live. Nix has a tendency to show immaturity and frustration. I would think the Duke office will hear from the MSU office about this today.
Terrible play. Dukemsu

This. Izzo likes tough physical play but Nix clearly let his frustrations get to him. Lucky no one was hurt badly.

[bjornolf]

Nix elbowing Dre in the stomach when he went to box out on the freethrow. Bilas said it was unintentional, but looked to me like he balled up his fist and swung his elbow backwards as he stepped in front of Dre. It's part of basketball I suppose, but it was definitely done on purpose.

Tyler also took what could have been a cheap shot in the shoulder. I couldn't tell for sure from the camera angles. But it looked like the kid threw a little something extra in as he bumped into Tyler.

What killed me is the refs missed both of those, yet called a technical on Mason for putting his arm in the guys side. Mason did extend his arm and everything. But I still thought that should have been a no call. He barely touched him.

I didn't see that elbow as an intentional elbow. To me it looked more like a clear out. It probably could have been called a foul, but I would have a hard time calling that a flagrant or technical. That's one where it's just too hard for me to determine intent. Same thing with the shoulder shot on Tyler. It was an intentional bump, but I didn't see it as a cheap shot or an intent to injure. It was intentional and it was a bump, but it didn't look that bad to me. Throwing a little something extra in there is not the same as being reckless or intending to injure. Looked more like an attempt to throw Tyler off his path to me, maybe mess with his head a little.

Now, what Nix did was intentional, it was cruel, and it was dangerous to not only Tyler but whichever guard (again I missed that between Rivers or Curry) had the ball. Nix's knee forced Tyler's head down onto the other guy's ankle and bent it to a pretty bad angle. We could have lost two guys there. I'm just supremely relieved that they're both okay. His play reminded me a lot of Albert Haynesworth putting his cleats to an opponent's head a few years ago. However, Albert did a stupid thing in a moment of rage without thinking. It appeared (again, I can't read minds) to me that Nix thought about it for a second and then did it anyway. That's even worse, in my mind. It's a good thing I'm not a ref, cause if I'd seen that, I would have ejected him.

[UrinalCake]

Nix elbowing Dre in the stomach when he went to box out on the freethrow. Bilas said it was unintentional, but looked to me like he balled up his fist and swung his elbow backwards as he stepped in front of Dre. It's part of basketball I suppose, but it was definitely done on purpose.

I think what happened (and I could be completely wrong here) is that Nix shoved Dre and that caused Dre to bump into another MSU player. One ref called a foul on Dawkins for that second contact. But then another ref intervened and they went over to the replay monitor to sort out what happened. After viewing the replay they made the correct call, which was a foul on Nix, but only because they had to make a call on someone. If the initial foul call on Andre hadn't been made, then the whole incident would probably have just been a no-call.

I'm not positive about this, the commentators weren't saying anything about it but it looked like that's what the refs were doing. It was a case where whoever in the broadcast team is in charge of the video replays seemed to know what was happening while the commentators did not, which I notice from time to time.

[sbroc012]

Personally, I think all of this review of these fouls and what not are getting out of hand. It's getting dumb to the point where the player with possession can do so little to retain possession (strong grip, elbows out, clear space kind of deal) thats how you are taught to hold possession in a high pressure man to man situation and its now to the point where the defender is able to play tight defense and the offensive player isnt allowed to clear his space. And to take 5 minutes to review each case is absurd and messes with the flow of the game for both teams. Last night's game didnt end til 9:40 which was 30-40 minutes longer than what it should have been and this was caused solely by the excessive number of reviews. The Nix box out was a hard box out, no foul, the Mason Plumlee tech was unwarranted, first off the MSU player caused it to happen by going for the block well after the whistle and Mason didnt help himself by throwing the arm, both players were in the wrong. And the Nix knee to Thornton was something that looked like Nix lost balance but at the same time purposely did drop the knee. Anytime you view these type of plays in slow motion half a dozen times its gonna look intentional. All in all I think the refs and NCAA need to cut this review garbage out and let them play. Whatever happened to a good hard clean foul?

[Indoor66]

Personally, I think all of this review of these fouls and what not are getting out of hand. It's getting dumb to the point where the player with possession can do so little to retain possession (strong grip, elbows out, clear space kind of deal) thats how you are taught to hold possession in a high pressure man to man situation and its now to the point where the defender is able to play tight defense and the offensive player isnt allowed to clear his space. And to take 5 minutes to review each case is absurd and messes with the flow of the game for both teams. Last night's game didnt end til 9:40 which was 30-40 minutes longer than what it should have been and this was caused solely by the excessive number of reviews. The Nix box out was a hard box out, no foul, the Mason Plumlee tech was unwarranted, first off the MSU player caused it to happen by going for the block well after the whistle and Mason didnt help himself by throwing the arm, both players were in the wrong. And the Nix knee to Thornton was something that looked like Nix lost balance but at the same time purposely did drop the knee. Anytime you view these type of plays in slow motion half a dozen times its gonna look intentional. All in all I think the refs and NCAA need to cut this review garbage out and let them play. Whatever happened to a good hard clean foul?

I agree, sbroc. Just because you have technology you don't have to use it - or overuse it. IMO the Refs generally do a good job. Personally, I like a game with a "rub of the green" factor involved. That is real life. It doesn't always go perfectly. If the Refs think they saw a flagrant foul, call if. If not, let it go. Also the endless review to determine whether their should be 1.2 or 1.4 seconds has to stop. Human reaction time is part of the game. If it involves several seconds of wrongly elapsed time, OK, but not these mid-game delays over meaningless time issues.

[feldspar]

Personally, I think all of this review of these fouls and what not are getting out of hand.

Well, the fact of the matter is that coaches want more review, not less. They want fewer flagrants because players are getting hurt, and that means going to the monitor more. However, the NCAA does want officials using more discretion when going to the monitor, mostly because the officials usually do get it right.

That being said, I don't know how to be more clear in saying that the Mason incident the other night is a perfect example in which officials are specifically trained to go to the monitor. They followed procedure as it has been handed down by the rules committee. I understand you're disappointed Mason got a technical, but you can at least acknowledge that he blatantly violated a rule, right?


It's getting dumb to the point where the player with possession can do so little to retain possession (strong grip, elbows out, clear space kind of deal) thats how you are taught to hold possession in a high pressure man to man situation and its now to the point where the defender is able to play tight defense and the offensive player isnt allowed to clear his space.

This is just not true. A player is allowed to extend the elbows and move his entire body as one unit to make space. The problem that arises is that players aren't doing that, they're swinging just the upper body or just the elbows. That's when it gets reviewed and a flagrant can be assessed.


And to take 5 minutes to review each case is absurd and messes with the flow of the game for both teams. Last night's game didnt end til 9:40 which was 30-40 minutes longer than what it should have been and this was caused solely by the excessive number of reviews.

This statement is absurd. The game didn't go long because there were multiple reviews. The game went long because there were 50 fouls called in the game and the two teams combined to call 7 timeouts in the second half.


the Mason Plumlee tech was unwarranted, first off the MSU player caused it to happen by going for the block well after the whistle and Mason didnt help himself by throwing the arm, both players were in the wrong.

Mason made intentional contact with an opponent in a dead-ball situation. Thornton didn't break any rule. Yes, what he did was annoying, but the fact remains that he didn't break any rule. Mason was penalized according to the rules. You can argue that you don't like the rule, but there's not really room for argument in saying the technical was unwarranted. It's there in plain sight in the rule book.

[Dev11]

This statement is absurd. The game didn't go long because there were multiple reviews. The game went long because there were 50 fouls called in the game and the two teams combined to call 7 timeouts in the second half.

Don't forget the national anthem and player introductions that started at game time. If I hadn't also recorded the following game, I would have missed the last 5 minutes of our game or so, and I set the recordings to go over by half an hour. Glad I found a spot in this thread to rant about that little issue. Normally ESPN is better about those kinds of things.

[sbroc012]

This statement is absurd. The game didn't go long because there were multiple reviews. The game went long because there were 50 fouls called in the game and the two teams combined to call 7 timeouts in the second half.



Mason made intentional contact with an opponent in a dead-ball situation. Thornton didn't break any rule. Yes, what he did was annoying, but the fact remains that he didn't break any rule. Mason was penalized according to the rules. You can argue that you don't like the rule, but there's not really room for argument in saying the technical was unwarranted. It's there in plain sight in the rule book.

Yes there were player intros and the national anthem, the game started at 715ish and ended at 940ish, which is still 20 minutes longer than normal, there were at least two reviews (Mason's tech and Nix's boxout). The review of Mason's tech took at least 5 minutes and there was a lot of waiting and standing for the refs to decide. The timeouts in the second half have nothing to do with the length of the game overall, both teams are allotted 5 timeouts per game, and typically all of them are used by both teams throughout the game, when they are used has no bearing on the overall length of the game, the typical two-hours allotted has that figured in, what it doesn't figure in is the multiple reviews that each took in excess of 2 minutes(essentially the length of a media timeout.

And I never said the tech was unwarranted, actually I said Mason was in the wrong ( it was unnecessary low IQ kind of thing) my point was, it that neither player stopped after the whistle.

[feldspar]

And I never said the tech was unwarranted,.

Um, actually you did say exactly that. Look at your previous post.

And a college basketball game running 2 hours and 20 minutes is pretty unremarkable.

[NovaScotian]

I have to agree 100%. Watching the replay only emphasizes just how bad that punk play could have turned out.

just a note, because i'm not familiar with exactly what happened, but watching replays for the purpose of understanding intent seems a little silly to me. not only are you removed from the time and emotion of the incident, but watching things happen in slow motions gives you the benefit of having extra time to consider each action and doesn't portray how quickly things can unfold. obviously, somethings things move too quickly to be see at regular speed, but i wish people would be more careful trying to read players' minds or intentions through replay, and i'm not sure it benefits the game to have technical fouls be subject to such review.

that said, tom izzo is a class act, and i love him very much.