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pfrduke
11-14-2011, 12:31 PM
Already, this season is off to a better start for the conference than the last, and it's entirely due to Wake Forest (in a manner of speaking). Last year, presaging the terrible season ahead, Wake dropped its first contest to Stetson and the ACC did not escape the first Friday unblemished. This season, the Deacs took care of business against Loyola (Md.), and everyone else did their part as well (some with closer games than others), getting the conference through week 1 unscathed. True, no one other than Duke and UNC played teams that are likely to be even within shouting distance of an at large bid, but the conference had plenty of trouble winning the games it should against mid-level opponents, so consider this at least a small step in the right direction. Given the matchups set for this week, it's almost certain that at least one squad will fall before next Monday, but there are plenty of opportunities for teams to pick up big nonconference wins and begin building their resumes.

Monday puts four squads in action, including the first game of the season for Boston College. Picked to finish near the bottom (if not at the bottom) of the conference, BC has a tough road ahead this year. They should have no trouble with New Hampshire (a team picked to finish near the bottom of the America East), but if they do, that's certainly an ominous sign for what's to come. Virginia Tech gets its PNIT action under way with Monmouth, while FSU takes on a Central Florida team that made a lot of noise in the pre-conference season last year (including wins over Miami and Florida) before completely crashing against CUSA opposition.

[179]Boston College hosts [291]New Hampshire
[76]Georgia Tech hosts [278]Delaware State
[33]Florida State hosts [94]Central Florida
[52]Virginia Tech hosts [270]Monmouth

Tuesday is the first shot at 903, to be discussed elsewhere. More interesting (well, not more interesting, but maybe also interesting) is whether the inaugural Champions Classic proves to be a successful format and generates interest both at a local (i.e., people buy tickets) and national (i.e., lots of people watch on the TV) level. Certainly, the organizers couldn't have hoped for a better scenario for the first incarnation than Coach K pursuing the all-time wins record. Virginia kicks off the Paradise Jam much in the way that Duke kicked off the Maui Invitational, with a home game against Winthrop before heading off to the USVI this weekend. Miami takes its first shot at a BCS opponent, taking on a Rutgers team that knocked off the Hurricanes last season. And Virginia Tech has its second round PNIT action; to the PNIT's credit, unlike other "tournaments," this one counts - if the Hokies don't win, they don't go to NYC

[4]Duke vs. [35]Michigan State in Madison Square Garden
[65]Virginia hosts [232]Winthrop
[32]Miami hosts [117]Rutgers
[52]Virginia Tech hosts [67]George Mason/[298]Florida International

Wednesday is a slate of relative lightweights, with only Princeton likely to be at all frisky. Clemson is taking its show on the road to in-state "rival" Citadel, while NC State gets its second pre-Meadowlands Legends Classic action.

[33]Florida State hosts [323]Stetson
[58]NC States hosts [136]Princeton
[142]Wake Forest hosts [295]Georgia Southern
[34]Clemson at [276]The Citadel

Thursday starts another two pre-season tournaments, with Maryland off to exotic San Juan for the Puerto Rico Tip-Off and Georgia Tech off to less exotic (but more scenic) Charleston for the Charleston Classic. Maryland will be the first team to take on a top 25 opponent in the voter polls (Duke, with Belmont, took honors for the computer rankings) with an opening round matchup against Alabama. Georgia Tech has what should be a bit of an easier matchup with St. Joseph's.

[55]Maryland v. [24]Alabama in San Juan
[76]Georgia Tech v. [112]St. Joseph's in Charleston

Friday puts 5 teams in action, only 1 (Duke) playing in their friendly confines. Virginia kicks off the meat of the Paradise Jam on the islands with a matchup against TCU. Maryland and Georgia Tech have second round action in their respective tournaments (hopefully both in the winners brackets). And BC travels to in-state "rival" Holy Cross (note that per Pomeroy, Holy Cross is the favorite here).

[4]Duke hosts [96]Davidson
[179]Boston College at [208]Holy Cross
[65]Virgnia v. [192]Texas Christian in St. Thomas
[55]Maryland v. [118]Colorado in San Juan
[76]Georgia Tech v. [78]Virginia Commonwealth in Charleston

Saturday sees NC State take on the one preseason top 10 squad that's already fallen, but that would be no less a marquee win for a Pack squad looking to establish that this season will be different from years past. Clemson continues its in-state slate with a matchup against Charleston. And Virginia moves on to further action in the USVI (the Puerto Rico and Charleston tournaments take a Saturday breather).

[58]NC State v. [16]Vanderbilt in East Rutherford
[34]Clemson hosts [145]Charleston
[32]Miami hosts [207]North Florida
[65]Virginia v. [69]Drexel/[272]Norfolk State in St. Thomas

Sunday finishes off the week with the busiest day for the conference - half the squads are in action, including final round play in San Juan and Charleston. UNC kicks off the Las Vegas invitational, a tournament UNC should win in a cake walk, with a cake walk game against the Delta Devils. Beyond the tournament action, which I'll update here as the tourney matchups firm up, FSU hosts South Alabama, and Wake plays host to NCCU.

[3]UNC v. [305]Mississippi Valley State
[33]Florida State v. [294]South Alabama
[142]Wake Forest v. [315]North Carolina Central
[55]Maryland in San Juan
[76]Georgia Tech in Charleston
[65]Virginia v. [69]Drexel/[272]Norfolk State in St. Thomas*

*If Virginia beats TCU, it plays the winner of the Drexel/Norfolk game on Sunday; if it loses to TCU, it plays the loser of that game on Saturday.

ACC Non-Conference Record: 14-0
ACC Record v. BCS: 1-0
A-Sun: 3-0
Big South: 4-0
B1G Ten: 1-0
Colonial: 1-0
MAAC: 1-0
MEAC: 2-0
OVC: 2-0

Slackerb
11-15-2011, 09:32 AM
I know it's early, but after watching two games I was tempted to put this in the Overrated/Underrated thread:

NC State is better. Markedly better.

Are they going to win the ACC? No. Are they a better team this year? Definitely, even already.

I understand it's early, but in years past, State has not looked like this against even early season opponents. The game I watched last weekend, the pack played an up-tempo, crisp offense. Facing two teams that went to (and won a game in) the tourney last year, State handled both with ease.

CDu
11-15-2011, 09:45 AM
I know it's early, but after watching two games I was tempted to put this in the Overrated/Underrated thread:

NC State is better. Markedly better.

Are they going to win the ACC? No. Are they a better team this year? Definitely, even already.

I understand it's early, but in years past, State has not looked like this against even early season opponents. The game I watched last weekend, the pack played an up-tempo, crisp offense. Facing two teams that went to (and won a game in) the tourney last year, State handled both with ease.

The bolded part is technically accurate but a bit misleading. UNC-A won a play-in game before getting hammered by Pitt. And they lost their top three scorers and five of their top seven rotation players. Morehead State lost all five starters from the team that beat Louisville last year.

However, it should be noted that NCSU is currently playing without their best player (Leslie). So they should theoretically get better when he returns. Of course, it may be addition by subtraction, but I doubt it.

Olympic Fan
11-15-2011, 11:01 AM
DSu is right about UNC-A and Morehead State, but I agree with slackerb that State is better -- if for no other reason that the eye test. They seem to have an idea of what they want to do, plus a couple of their big men (especially Howell and Painter) appear to be much improved. Agree that's it's early, but they handled UNC-A at least as easy as UNC did (acknowledging that the State-UNCA game was in Raleigh, while UNC played them in Asheville).

Interesting week ... important that the ACC keeps piling up wins even against weak opponents to lay a firm foundation for the league's RPI. I hold my breath every time Wake Forest or Boston College plays. And now that some of these teams are going on the road, it's going to be tough.

First ACC loss? It could very well be Duke tonight (Duke should be favored, but at this stage in the season, the Devils are no lock over a solid team such as Michigan State. Plus, it won't be the normally friendly Garden -- there were be a lot of Kentucky fans there pulling against us).

If Duke wins as it should, then I see the first loss coming in San Juan Tuesday, when Maryland plays Alabama.

BTW, it's not an ACC game, but interesting matchup today (Tuesday) at noon -- Belmont plays at Louisville. I know there is no transitive property in basketball ... still it will be interesting to see how the Bruins do against the No. 7 team after taking the No. 6 team to the wire.

MCFinARL
11-15-2011, 11:17 AM
DSu is right about UNC-A and Morehead State, but I agree with slackerb that State is better -- if for no other reason that the eye test. They seem to have an idea of what they want to do, plus a couple of their big men (especially Howell and Painter) appear to be much improved. Agree that's it's early, but they handled UNC-A at least as easy as UNC did (acknowledging that the State-UNCA game was in Raleigh, while UNC played them in Asheville).

Interesting week ... important that the ACC keeps piling up wins even against weak opponents to lay a firm foundation for the league's RPI. I hold my breath every time Wake Forest or Boston College plays. And now that some of these teams are going on the road, it's going to be tough.

First ACC loss? It could very well be Duke tonight (Duke should be favored, but at this stage in the season, the Devils are no lock over a solid team such as Michigan State. Plus, it won't be the normally friendly Garden -- there were be a lot of Kentucky fans there pulling against us).

If Duke wins as it should, then I see the first loss coming in San Juan Tuesday, when Maryland plays Alabama.

BTW, it's not an ACC game, but interesting matchup today (Tuesday) at noon -- Belmont plays at Louisville. I know there is no transitive property in basketball ... still it will be interesting to see how the Bruins do against the No. 7 team after taking the No. 6 team to the wire.

Agreed. If nothing else, a good showing by Belmont confirms that Duke had trouble with a very good team. A weak showing could be just a question of match-ups, or it could be a reminder that this year's Blue Devils are very much still a work in progress (probably true in any case).

In somewhat ACC-related news, Paul Hewitt had a tough return to Blacksburg as his George Mason squad lost their opener in the NIT to lowly Florida International in overtime. Now FIU will play Virginia Tech for the chance to advance. Saw a little of this game on ESPN3--not sure why the promoters made the decision to play the Virginia Tech game first, but the result was that there was virtually no one in the stands for the GMU-FIU game.

Apparently last time Hewitt was in Blacksburg, he was ejected from the game. Not a good spot for him. http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/george-mason-vs-florida-international-patriots-fall-in-ot-76-73/2011/11/14/gIQA5KlANN_story.html

CDu
11-15-2011, 01:07 PM
BTW, it's not an ACC game, but interesting matchup today (Tuesday) at noon -- Belmont plays at Louisville. I know there is no transitive property in basketball ... still it will be interesting to see how the Bruins do against the No. 7 team after taking the No. 6 team to the wire.

Looks like it's actually Memphis (#10) against Belmont. Memphis is up 46-39 at the half.

pfrduke
11-15-2011, 01:56 PM
Looks like it's actually Memphis (#10) against Belmont. Memphis is up 46-39 at the half.

The Bruins are pesky - they cut a 16 point Memphis lead to 7 in a heartbeat. Still a lot of time left.

CDu
11-15-2011, 02:07 PM
The Bruins are pesky - they cut a 16 point Memphis lead to 7 in a heartbeat. Still a lot of time left.

Memphis is up 11 with a bit over 3 minutes left. Of course, we can make any discussion of Belmont (right or wrong) irrelevant if we handle MSU tonight.

Slackerb
11-15-2011, 02:44 PM
The bolded part is technically accurate but a bit misleading. UNC-A won a play-in game before getting hammered by Pitt. And they lost their top three scorers and five of their top seven rotation players. Morehead State lost all five starters from the team that beat Louisville last year.

However, it should be noted that NCSU is currently playing without their best player (Leslie). So they should theoretically get better when he returns. Of course, it may be addition by subtraction, but I doubt it.

Not sure where you got your figures from, but you seem to be way off on Morehead State and UNC-A.

Morehead State still has 3 of the 5 starters that beat Louisville actually (Kelly, Hill, and Proffitt).

Also, UNC-A still has 4 of their 5 top scorers from a year ago, pretty much the whole team intact(Dickey, Primm, Stephenson, Lane).

I admitted it's early, but these teams are largely intact from last year, and UNC didn't really cream UNC-A either.

CDu
11-15-2011, 05:11 PM
Not sure where you got your figures from, but you seem to be way off on Morehead State and UNC-A.

Morehead State still has 3 of the 5 starters that beat Louisville actually (Kelly, Hill, and Proffitt).

I misread ESPN. However, again, you're only technically correct. One of those five played 14mpg as a starter. The senior Goodman played 26mpg off the bench. He was a more primary player than Kelly. And the two official starters that they lost? Only by far their two best players (one of whom got drafted in the first round).


Also, UNC-A still has 4 of their 5 top scorers from a year ago, pretty much the whole team intact(Dickey, Primm, Stephenson, Lane).

You're right about Asheville (I misread ESPN). However, the misleading part still applies. Asheville only won their play-in game last year against a 16-loss Little Rock team in overtime.


I admitted it's early, but these teams are largely intact from last year, and UNC didn't really cream UNC-A either.

Asheville is largely intact. Morehead State is not (see above). I stand by the misleadingness of those facts.

To clarify - I wasn't arguing that NCSU is not improved. Just that the "against teams that won tournament games last year" statement is misleading.

SCMatt33
11-15-2011, 11:29 PM
Interesting note. After winning 4 games tonight and Iowa State taking a loss, the ACC is now the last remaining undefeated conference. Not many of those wins are super impressive, be we've still avoided the bumps that others haven't. Compare this with those early embarrassing losses last year (Wake to Stetson, GT to Kennesaw St.). Not saying the ACC will stay at the top for long with teams like BC and Wake, but this is a good start.

ChillinDuke
11-16-2011, 10:14 PM
After a halfcourt heave fell short, NC State survived a nailbiter with Princeton 60-58. They lost Wood early, and Lorenzo Brown was under the weather and still put up 16 pts, 8 asts, 5 rebs, and 5 stls.

Florida State got Stetson 79-66 although it was a 5 pt game toward the end of the first half.
Clemson shrugged off Citadel 73-50.
And lowly Wake beat Georgia Southern 81-72.

Last year, one or more of these games could have easily gone the other way. Nice to see the ACC taking care of business early on.

- Chillin

As I type this, #9 Pitt is down 56-46. It's only 4 minutes into the second half, but Long Beach St looks pretty solid.

Slackerb
11-17-2011, 10:53 AM
State's win last night was pretty gutty and amazing when you look at who was on the floor. I watched the game and was very impressed with the coaching and the positive changes from the past years.

CJ Leslie is out on suspension. Freshman Thomas De They is out for eligibility issues(foreign player), Wood went down after first two minutes and did not return, freshman Tyler Harris, Lorenzo Brown and Vandenburg all went to the hospital this week for flu like symptoms and did not practice this week, and Richard Howell was plagued with foul trouble all game.

And yet they still won.

Olympic Fan
11-17-2011, 11:10 AM
Okay, the competition hasn't eactly been killer, but the ACC is 26-0 going into Thursday's two games.

That's good news for Duke and for the ACC as a whole as every non-conference wins bolsters our RPI. Last year. Wake's RPI at 260 really hurt everybody who played them. Beating Loyola and Georgia Southern won't get the Deacs in the top 25, but it might keep them out of the bottom 100 of the RPI.

I'm afraid the unbeaten ride ends today -- I'll be amazed (and delighted) if Maryland can beat Alabama in Puerto Rico. And I wouldn't be shocked if Georgia Tech falls to St. Joe's in Charleston.

The Terps really need the big German (I think he must sit eight more games) and with Howard out, they need for Stoglin to get his head out of his &^% and play at the top of his game.

As for Georgia Tech, anybody know if Brian Rice is still suspended?

pfrduke
11-17-2011, 11:43 AM
Today is when the rubber begins to meet the road. It's already an accomplishment (even if only a minor one) for the ACC to be the last conference left unscathed. Now it's time to turn that into preseason tournament wins. The ACC's performance in last year's tournaments was not great. Duke won the CBE. But that was about the only positive. Only three other teams made the finals, and all lost (NC State to Georgetown, Virginia Tech to UNLV, and Georgia Tech to Syracuse). Four teams lost in the semis (FSU, BC, Clemson, UNC). Virginia got smoked in its first game in Maui and finished 6th. Maryland was swept in the Coaches v. Cancer. And poor Wake Forest didn't even make it to NY in the PNIT. Miami had one of the better pre-season tournament seasons simply by not playing in one. All in all, the conference was just 21-13 in the tournaments, 16-12 in the neutral site games (early rounds of the respective tournaments were played at Duke, Maryland, and Wake). Call me crazy or over-optimistic, but I expect the teams in the 3-game tournaments to win at least two and the teams in the 4-game tournaments to win at least three.

Hopefully the Terps and the Jackets get things off on the right foot today. Maryland will have a much tougher test, but Georgia Tech is certainly vulnerable, and needs to avoid a bad loss.

pfrduke
11-17-2011, 11:45 AM
As for Georgia Tech, anybody know if Brian Rice is still suspended?

Glen Rice, and yes. Today is the last game of his suspension.

Olympic Fan
11-17-2011, 06:23 PM
It's not over, but the ACC win streak is coming to an end -- Maryland is getting killed by Alabama.

Right now, they do not look like a very good team. Maybe the big German will change that.

pfrduke
11-17-2011, 09:49 PM
And down goes Tech.

Newton_14
11-17-2011, 11:07 PM
The bolded part is technically accurate but a bit misleading. UNC-A won a play-in game before getting hammered by Pitt. And they lost their top three scorers and five of their top seven rotation players. Morehead State lost all five starters from the team that beat Louisville last year.

However, it should be noted that NCSU is currently playing without their best player (Leslie). So they should theoretically get better when he returns. Of course, it may be addition by subtraction, but I doubt it.

I would argue that Leslie is not State's best player, but that is another story. I see no problem with SlackerB stating the wins were over teams that won a game in the tourney. He could have easily said "teams that made the tourney" which is more than fair. Most folks know UNC_A and Morehead St are decent teams, but not powerhouses anyway. In the new format, a win is a win.

I think the real point he was making is valid. They are much improved already. If Lowe is still coaching this team they likely are 1-2 or 0-3 right now. I am glad to see it. The ACC needs improvement from State and several others.

Anyway, no biggie, but I just felt you were being a bit nitpicky with SlackerB on this one.

DukieInBrasil
11-18-2011, 12:14 AM
they need for Stoglin to get his head out of his &^% and play at the top of his game.
He didn't. He had a terrible game.

Olympic Fan
11-18-2011, 12:24 AM
Boy, that's an ugly box score. Look at the shooting of Maryland's three guards -- Nick Faust was 1-for-6; Sean Mosley was 1-for-8 and Terrell Stoglin was 0-for-9 (3 assists, but 3 turnovers). Ouch!

Georgia Tech led at the half, but didn't have enough firepower to keep up with St. Joe's ... a combined 1-for-12 from the 3-point line. It looks like Udofia played fairly well (aside from 0-for-4 from 3), but that was about it. And they got nothing from the bench. They definitely need Rice back.