MBB: Duke 80 Shaw 66 Post-Game Thread

[Newton_14]

Discuss the game here.

[JasonEvans]

Mason, Miles, and Ryan combined for 37 points and 22 rebounds.

I'll take that performance ;)

-Jason "did not see the game" Evans

[dcar1985]

Ryan looked pretty good on O, went to work on the smaller defenders in the post and took open shots when the D gave them.

Masons baby hook was hitting, better touch on it, played big which is good

Miles looked totally out of rhythm, missed a lot of bunnies and was repeatedly burned on D

[Kedsy]

Box score: http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205326771

Interesting tidbit: Josh had 4 points (2 for 2) and 6 rebounds in 11 minutes. Nice.

Another tidbit: Mason shot 6 for 6, added to (I'm pretty sure) 8 for 8 in the first exhibition game, giving him 14 for 14 to start the season.

We shot significantly better from the field (53.4%) then from the free throw line (45.8%). That's bad free throw shooting, folks.

[basket1544]

Did Austin's free throws at least look good? I can't believe he missed 4!

[J4Kop99]

I saw a lot of complaining about our perimeter D in the In-Game thread... so what's the deal? Is the intensity not there?

-I haven't been able to watch either of the games yet so it's hard to tell what's really going on?

--As for Andre, I know he had more points but was his actual play different from the previous game.. or did he just get a few more to go down?

[Billy Dat]

Austin Rivers led the team in minutes, by a fair margin, and looked completely in control on both ends of the court. I thought his defense was excellent, and he took his shots within the offense. if anything, I wish he had been more aggressive on offense. For us to maximize our potential, Austin needs to be putting lots of pressure on the other team's defense, and I think the coaching staff recognizes this.

Ryan Kelly was awesome on both ends, too. His offensive game was varied and he was taking charges, getting boards, making things happen (2 steals)

Mason was solid, too. I wish he'd be stronger with the ball, but he exploited his size advantage and almost hit double digit boards in 21 minutes. Miles was the least good of the 3, but was still pretty good. The bigs gave us a lot tonight.

Dawkins couldn't match his first half performance in the second half, I noticed some real defensive lapses, but he seemed to hustle back after being burned and hit the boards, etc. Hopefully he can build on this performance.

Curry looked better in the second half. 5 assists and 12 points in 26 minutes is pretty good. Thornton and Cook were both OK...I thought Thornton was part of better line-ups so maybe that's why he looked better. Cook's shot wasn't falling, but I didn't love his overall presence. To me, he seemed a little too aware of his strut, a little too cool. Maybe I am imagining things.

The defense wasn't any good in the first half but it got better, especially the middle 10 minutes of the second half.

Shaw was pretty good, a lot of slick one-on-one offensive players that were hard to guard, as opposed to Bellarmine whose team offense gave us fits. Good pre-season scheduling.

[dcar1985]

Cook I thought looked decent....shot wasn't falling but made good passes for the most part and ran the show well..The end of the game he got kinda of sloppy but an ok performance overall.

Austin was good on both O and D tonite. A lot of those layups and floaters he was missing in China/Dubai were dropping for him....got a few easy buckets where his defender basically dared him to go left and Austin did just that. I thought he was our best on ball defender tonite, he was on his matchup like white on rice...good stuff from Mr. Rivers.....missed 4 from the free throw line though.

Mike didn't do much but didn't look bad either, he's got to start finishing better though....he gets to the rim when he decides to drive which is good but you gotta convert....Mikes missing those same layups Austin was missing in August.

Alex didn't even get in until garbage time....doesn't seem strong enough with the ball right now, had the ball stripped right out from him again....did hit a nice corner three though, always good for a player to see the ball go through the hoop.

[dcar1985]

Box score: http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205326771

Interesting tidbit: Josh had 4 points (2 for 2) and 6 rebounds in 11 minutes. Nice.

Another tidbit: Mason shot 6 for 6, added to (I'm pretty sure) 8 for 8 in the first exhibition game, giving him 14 for 14 to start the season.

We shot significantly better from the field (53.4%) then from the free throw line (45.8%). That's bad free throw shooting, folks.

Masons baby hook is looking like he's trying to get to the league after this year lol. His touch has looked much improved!

[ACCBBallFan]

My rough count on +/-

+18 Ryan player of the match

+12 Dre very hot early in first half when he subbed in, 4 quick 3's and then cooled off
+11 Seth including 5 assists

+7 Austin (only 1 turnover is great for him), poor FT shooting
+7 Mason, back to 2-5 from FT line and 4 TO's, but still Duke's 5th best player.

+4 Tyler
+4 Josh, 0-3 on FTs
+3 Mike
+2 Quinn including 3 assists

-2 Miles
-3 Alex but did hit the one 3 he attempted. Good to see he was not afraid to pull the trigger.

So Ryan and Dre responded from the bench and Miles and Tyler did not do much as starters.

From a net of all positive and negative metrics:

49 Ryan Kelly
44 Austin Rivers *
42 Seth Curry *

39 Mason Plumlee *
39 Andre Dawkins

37 Miles Plumlee *

17 Tyler Thornton *
17 Josh Hairston

13 Quinn Cook
12 Michael Gbinije

04 Alex Murphy

The Shaw high metrics were mostly the top 3 playing 39, 36 and 36 minutes

58 ALVIN,MALIK *
52 SMITH,ANTONIO *
49 ABDUR-RAHIM,MOHAMMED *

36 CHANEY,JUNIUS *
29 HUNTER,DERRICK

18 DAWSON,EDDIE *
17 MCCOY,LATRAIL
15 SHUMATE,JAMIN

[Billy Dat]

Just watched the K presser..

-Big praise for Austin, said it was an important game for him because he used his energy on defense and really worked hard.
-He said he liked the overall defensive effort but in the early part of the game, they weren't playing team defense so they made an adjustment in the way they guarded ball screens and he felt it made a major positive difference
-He said Miles and Seth have to play better for the team to be as good as it can be, they have to leave their mark on the game in a bigger way
-He felt they should have won by more but missed a lot from the line and a lot of chippies inside
-He praised Ryan Kelly's overall game, too, and said the bigs overall were solid and they need to be game in and game out
-He said Thornton started for defense and that he wants Curry brining the ball up most of the time
-Someone asked a question about Dawkins but K didn't gush, said that when they went zone it was in his wheelhouse and that a veteran like Dawkins should be having a big impact on the game.

[Greg_Newton]

Miles was off today, but I still think he is our best (as in, has the biggest overall effect on the game) player at times. That's really weird to say, and maybe I'm crazy, but he seems like much more of a presence for us this year. Time will tell.

Both he and Mason had some post moves today, Mason just had more finishes drop. However, I liked Miles' moves better (except for that awful travel); they were true power moves that got him clean looks at the rim, which will drop most of the time and provide a different offensive dynamic. Mason showed great touch on his jump hooks (and a beauty of a sky hook!), but those are effectively jump shots - shooting over people.

Austin played close to a perfect game tonight. He was by far our best perimeter defender. Very encouraging.

I wonder why Murphy went from starting to not seeing the court for the first 38 minutes?

[Gthoma2a]

I guess it is just early growing pains and K putting them in situations that they aren't comfortable to let them grow, but I hope we learn to put more distance between us and opposition soon. It is starting to look like a season where there are only 1-4 teams that can really win it, but I think we can develop into that category with time. Hopefully they have the right attitude and take everything that K says without frustration and grow into a team like we did in 2009-2010. We have bigs that know that the team is a lot more squarely on their shoulders, so that gives us some veteran leadership to go with our new talent.

[Bluealum]

In no particular order....

This is going to be an unusual year... lots of talent with varied skill and weaknesses. This year will take all of K's considerable coaching acumen to mold an effective team where players know and execute their roles, as we roll into the second half of the season.

The three players that you can't keep off the floor appear to me to be Ryan, Seth, and Austin. They all bring unique offensive skills and can play solid defense. I include Austin because I think he 'can' play good defense against skilled competition, whether he will consistently remains to be seen. I thought he was pretty good tonight.

You could also add 1 of the Plumlees to the above, but which one is debatable. Mason is a much better passer and a more fluid offensive player, but I suspect most bigs would much rather play offense against him than against Miles, who is more physical and seems to work harder and have better (of the two) positioning. He will tax whomever he guards over the course of a game, much more than Mason who fouls less but is fairly passive defensively.

Quin, Tyler, and Andre all appeared to play matador defense (to borrow a Vital-ism...sorry) at points in the game. We may be emphasizing aggressive on the ball defense expecting our bigs to protect the basket more this year....but you would expect more steals and turnovers from the top of the key if we were employing that successfully. A team with good guards is going to blow by these guys a few times this year.... especially if Cook, Thornton, and Dawkins don't improve their footwork. Seth and Austin are a cut above in this dept and I think will be on the floor against better competition most of the time for this reason alone, but neither is a standout defender from my vantage point. Then again, as the competition improves we may be forced to concede the three pointer a bit more so we don't get blown by as easily.

We hardly saw him....but man I like the way Silent G moves on the court. A bit Grant-Hill-esq in his fluidity. He may be raw offensively but I suspect he has a very high ceiling and it will be fun to see him develop over the next few years. That was a very nice block and he gets up and down the floor fast.

Strange that Singler Jr. started the first game and barely got in the second....

Dawkins .... what a lovely shot he has. Strange thing is that he played 23 minutes, the same as Kelly (per the boxscore), but it felt like Kelly was out there twice as long as Dre', he was just so much more involved in the action when he was on the court. If Dre' isn't making threes you don't notice him much, though I think his defense is better than Cook's and he is Thorton's equal on the ball, due to his superior size and athleticism.

A coach trying to figure out how to attack this Duke team will, I think, attempt to spread the floor and attack from the guards/wings with dribble penetration. Our bigs will have to get really good at rotating and not fouling when trying to cover their teammates against this strategy. Hairston will get significant minutes due to foul trouble many times this year if they don't.

I will finish where I started...it will be really interesting to see what K comes up with this year with this cast of characters. I bet the practices will be very intense all year long with so much up for grabs in terms of roles and playing time.

[ACCBBallFan]

Looks like things returned to normal in time for Belmont game.

The top 6 are the upperclassmen and thre super frosh Austin.

With Alex and Mike not yet showing they are ready, coach K will alternate Dre and Austin at SF when he subs in Tyler or Quinn before Alex or Mike. He likely leverages Tyler's experience and defensive tenacity and communication as player #7.

It does not matter whether both Plumlees or Ryan and a Plum as they all 3 will play close to 2/3 of the game at C/PF with Josh asw needed.

Total MINS Player
57 26 Seth Curry *

49 30 Austin Rivers *
46 23 Ryan Kelly
45 25 Miles Plumlee *
44 21 Mason Plumlee *
40 16 Tyler Thornton *
38 23 Andre Dawkins

25 11 Josh Hairston
24 13 Quinn Cook

16 9 Michael Gbinije
16 3 Alex Murphy

For Duke, the same seven guys stand out when you sum the +/- for the two games:

Two of these 3 bigs start and third plays starter minutes:

+/- for the two exhibition games

29 Ryan
18 Miles
17 Mason

Three of these 4 plays the SF-SG-PG slots and the 4th is first off the bench:

26 Tyler
25 Austin
24 Seth
22 Dre

+7 Quinn for traditional PG role if needed as #8 guy
+7 Josh for 4th big if needed as #9 guy

+6 Mike
-8 Alex

If they can't log minutes vs. Bellarmine and Shaw, no way they see much if any against a very experienced Belmont team that returns 9 guys who averaged double digit minutes. The good news is their two Belmont graduates from last year were the two SF's both 6'5 210 or 6'6" 215 guys who shared the SF spot almost equally.

[Son of Jarhead]

Shaw is a very quick team (except that one big guy, but he used his size very well on offense) and they hit some tough shots. They were CIAA champs last year, returned most everyone, and their guards are older & experienced (Smith-#20 was singled out in pre-game comments from Chris Collins as a very good player).

I thought Andre looked pretty good. He was hustling and seemed very engaged in the game. At one point in the second half, he was very intense in a huddle, really animated talking to his teammates. It seems to make a huge difference for him to hit a shot early. Oh... and I loved the head fakes to get the defender running past.

Mason must have really been practicing his hook shot, it looked much more fluid.

Ryan is such a smart player, he seems to always make the right choice. Seth, too.

Loved (as usual) Josh's hustle.

I think our best (at least offensively) line-up was Seth, Austin, Andre, Ryan & Mason.

----

Great seeing Lance Thomas, Nolan Smith, & Kyrie Irving join the crazies in the student section. They were doing the cheers & stuff, seemed to be having a blast. Somebody please post a picture!

[magjayran]

I can't remember the last time the exhibition games were this closed. Duke usually blows these div. II teams out by at least 40 whether they are the defending national champs or not. I wasn't able to watch the games so I'm wondering how you guys are feeling about this?

I'm fully confident that the team will continue to improve on defense and probably win at least 25 games but we've got some tough match-ups early and I'd hate to see us start the year on a slide.

[Devilsfan]

A far cry from the Duke powerhouses of old. Ryan is probably the most fundamentally sound player and Austin is a future star if he stays around. I didn't see much in Cook. Maybe over time he will develop. Murphy's one three look so smooth and Dre shot well early until he had to exert a lot of effort on D. The two plums looked okay against a smaller non ACC Line up. Glad we don't play the heels until next year.

[devildeac]

Shaw is a very quick team (except that one big guy, but he used his size very well on offense) and they hit some tough shots. They were CIAA champs last year, returned most everyone, and their guards are older & experienced (Smith-#20 was singled out in pre-game comments from Chris Collins as a very good player).

I thought Andre looked pretty good. He was hustling and seemed very engaged in the game. At one point in the second half, he was very intense in a huddle, really animated talking to his teammates. It seems to make a huge difference for him to hit a shot early. Oh... and I loved the head fakes to get the defender running past.

Mason must have really been practicing his hook shot, it looked much more fluid.

Ryan is such a smart player, he seems to always make the right choice. Seth, too.

Loved (as usual) Josh's hustle.

I think our best (at least offensively) line-up was Seth, Austin, Andre, Ryan & Mason.

----

Great seeing Lance Thomas, Nolan Smith, & Kyrie Irving join the crazies in the student section. They were doing the cheers & stuff, seemed to be having a blast. Somebody please post a picture!

I thought Kyrie looked great in a Viking hat/helmet:cool:. I still think he looked better wearing #1:(.

[mo.st.dukie]

I can't remember the last time the exhibition games were this closed. Duke usually blows these div. II teams out by at least 40 whether they are the defending national champs or not. I wasn't able to watch the games so I'm wondering how you guys are feeling about this?


Last year the defending National Champion Duke Blue Devils beat Cal Poly Pomona 81-60. If Duke had hit more FT's and converted on some 2 ft. shots inside they would've scored in the 90's and won by 25+. Defense was really bad in the 1st half but that's not unusual for a young team this early in the season. Could be a rough November and December but because of the bigs, Austin Rivers, and Seth Curry this team has a very high ceiling.

[Kedsy]

A far cry from the Duke powerhouses of old.

You mean like last year or the year before?

[uh_no]

Last year the defending National Champion Duke Blue Devils beat Cal Poly Pomona 81-60. If Duke had hit more FT's and converted on some 2 ft. shots inside they would've scored in the 90's and won by 25+. Defense was really bad in the 1st half but that's not unusual for a young team this early in the season. Could be a rough November and December but because of the bigs, Austin Rivers, and Seth Curry this team has a very high ceiling.

We also beat st. augustine's 141-68.

While slightly disconcerted about ONLY winning by 14, I staunchly refuse to make any conclusions based on exhibition games, and that includes both positive AND negative.

[CDu]

Did Austin's free throws at least look good? I can't believe he missed 4!

At least 2 of the 4 were really bad. One barely drew iron, the other clanked off the front right. One bounced around the rim-backboard-rim and out. Don't remember the fourth miss. I didn't think he shot particularly well in general from outside of 10 feet, but he was electric going to the rim. And he played aggressive defense throughout.

[Son of Jarhead]

I thought Kyrie looked great in a Viking hat/helmet:cool:. I still think he looked better wearing #1:(.

Both true, DD. :cool:

[jimrowe0]

I can't remember the last time the exhibition games were this closed. Duke usually blows these div. II teams out by at least 40 whether they are the defending national champs or not. I wasn't able to watch the games so I'm wondering how you guys are feeling about this?

I'm fully confident that the team will continue to improve on defense and probably win at least 25 games but we've got some tough match-ups early and I'd hate to see us start the year on a slide.

I'm not too worried about the actually score. K was really experimenting with several different line-ups and that alone caused some of the offensive and defensive disruption. We were actually up +20 points and would have likely extended that baring several substitutions about half way through the second half. However, our defense at some points was lacking (especially perimeter). There will be shuffling in the line-up throughout the year, but I think once the regular season starts things will change. K will establish his rotation and also leave the best players on the floor. Exhibitions are designed for experimenting with line-ups which is what we did.

[dukeballboy88]

I think the offense needs to go through Austin like it did when Jay Williams was there. He is that type of game changer and he needs to have the ball in his hands, he needs to get his shots.

[ACCBBallFan]

Shaw is a very quick team (except that one big guy, but he used his size very well on offense) and they hit some tough shots. They were CIAA champs last year, returned most everyone, and their guards are older & experienced (Smith-#20 was singled out in pre-game comments from Chris Collins as a very good player).

I thought Andre looked pretty good. He was hustling and seemed very engaged in the game. At one point in the second half, he was very intense in a huddle, really animated talking to his teammates. It seems to make a huge difference for him to hit a shot early. Oh... and I loved the head fakes to get the defender running past.

Mason must have really been practicing his hook shot, it looked much more fluid.

Ryan is such a smart player, he seems to always make the right choice. Seth, too.

Loved (as usual) Josh's hustle.

I think our best (at least offensively) line-up was Seth, Austin, Andre, Ryan & Mason.

----

Great seeing Lance Thomas, Nolan Smith, & Kyrie Irving join the crazies in the student section. They were doing the cheers & stuff, seemed to be having a blast. Somebody please post a picture!

Actually, Shaw only returned 3 guys and has a new make-up, but on your point about offensive effectiveness, coach K and his PT seem to agree with you playing Seth-Dre-Austin-Ryan-Mason the most in tandem and keeping Miles and Tyler together for toughness.

Only the top 7 players had a playing partner for at least 9 minutes versus Shaw, before the Josh-Quinn combo shimed in @ 8.57 minutes.

Minutes 2-Player combos

24.07 Seth-Austin
22.05 Ryan-Andre
20.58 Seth-Mason

19.38 Mason-Austin
18.35 Miles-Austin
18.17 Ryan-Austin
17.53 Austin-Andre
16.63 Seth-Ryan
16.00 Seth-Andre

14.95 Seth-Miles
13.58 Mason-Andre
13.38 Tyler-Ausitn
11.95 Mason-Ryan
11.65 Tyler-Miles
10.32 Seth-Tyler

9.22 Mason-Miles
9.10 Tyler-Mason
8.57 Josh-Quinn
8.57 Quinn-Mike
8.57 Josh-Mike
8.05 Miles-Quinn
7.78 Ryan-Miles

6.87 Ryan-Quinn
6.87 Andre-Quinn
6.68 Miles-Andre
6.67 Tyler-Ryan
6.00 Miles-Josh
6.00 Miles-Mike
5.17 Austin-Josh
5.05 Andre-Josh

4.58 Ryan-Josh
4.40 Tyler-Andre
3.40 Austin-Quinn
3.32 Miles-Aex
3.32 Josh-Alex
3.32 Alex-Quinn
3.32 Alex-Mike

2.68 Austin-Mike
2.57 Ryan-Mike
2.57 Andre-Mike
2.25 Mason-Quinn
2.25 Seth-Quinn
2.02 Tyler-Josh
1.33 Tyler-Quinn
0.47 Seth-Josh
0.47 Mason-Josh

0.00 Seth-Alex
0.00 Seth-Mike
0.00 Mason-Mike
0.00 Tyler-Alex
0.00 Ryan-Alex
0.00 Mason-Alex
0.00 Austin-Alex
0.00 Andre-Alex
0.00 Tyler-Mike

[CDu]

The good:
- Austin Rivers driving to the basket. He hit runners. He hit layups. He drew fouls. Rivers looked fantastic going to the basket last night.
- Ryan Kelly across the board. He drew two charges (though one was perhaps borderline). He hit shots in the post. He hit perimeter shots. He passed well. He rebounded well. Just a good night all around from him.
- Mason Plumlee with a hook shot. It's a shot we've seen him take before (sweeping hook shot across the lane), and it came against a much smaller/inferior defender. But he still made a couple of nice little sweeping hooks. And he again was a presence throughout the game. He's never going to be Kevin McHale down there, but he looked solid.
- Andre Dawkins' first half shooting. Dawkins hit a flurry of 3s in the first half. He didn't do much after that, but he looked more involved. It appears that his involvement/energy may be highly correlated with his shooting. Hopefully he can continue to hit shots early (or get over the energy slumps).
- The bigs overall. Again, this should be expected, as we had a substantial advantage in height and skill inside. But it was good to see us take advantage and get 41 and 28 from our bigs. And it could have been more had they hit some free throws.

The bad:
- First half defense. Our perimeter guys were regularly getting beat off the dribble. And on other occasions when Shaw would set a high screen, our bigs weren't doing a good job of rotating to prevent the easy trip into the lane. This resulted in a lot of easy layups and wide open mid-range jumpers. Shaw's guards (and Abdur-Rahim) deserve a lot of credit for their effort in the first half, but we need to do better. The second half looked better defensively. We handled the screen better, and I'm guessing Shaw's guards wore down a bit (it takes a lot of energy to attack off the dribble on every possession). And Rivers looked at times very good defensively.
- Free throw shooting. We shot under 50%. Mason was 2-5, Hairston 0-3, Rivers 2-6. I'd expect Rivers to improve, and I doubt Hairston makes too many trips to the line this year anyway. But Mason's % is going to be relevant. He's going to play a lot, he's going to get fouled a lot. So he's going to need to hit a higher %.

The other:
- The rotations were a little closer to what I'd expect in real games, but still a bit deeper than I'd expect in ACC play. The big man rotation looked close to what I'd expect (rotating Kelly and the Plumlees, plugging in Hairston when foul trouble arises). The wing rotation was about right (Dawkins mostly, with one of Gbinije/Murphy backing up). The question will be at guard, and how the minutes Thornton and Cook split.
- Tony Smith looked very good.

[ACCBBallFan]

When I sum all 2 player combos greater than 3, the top offensive weapons are:

80 - Ryan is +16 with Dre, +13 with Seth, +10 with Austin, +9 with Mason. So as Ryan goes, so goes the rest of Duke nation. Ryan's name appears in all rows below.

54 - Dre is +16 with Ryan, +8 with Quinn, +7 with Seth, Mason and Mike, +5 with Josh, +4 with Austin. Dre not +4 with Tyler or Miles.

45 - Seth is +13 with Ryan, +10 with Austin, +7 with Dre and Mason, +4 with Tyler and Miles. Seth not +4 with Tyler, Quinn, Mike or Josh, so only +4 with Miles in bottom 5 of this list..

34 - Austin is +10 with Ryan and Seth, +6 with Mason, +4 with Dre and Tyler. Austin not +4 with any of the bottom 5 below.

29 - Mason is +9 with Ryan, +7 with Dre and Seth, +6 with Austin

20 - Tyler is +6 with Ryan and Miles, +4

16 - Quinn is +8 with Ryan and +8 with Dre

14 - Miles is +6 with Tyler and +4 with Ryan and Seth

14 - Mike is +7 with Ryan and +7 with Dre

12 - Josh is +7 with Ryan and +5 with Dre

n/a - Alex is not positive with any one player, but neutral sum to zero with the top 6 offesnive players above Ryan, Dre, Seth, Austin, Mason and Tyler. Alex is -3 with each of the bottom 4 offensive players above Quinn, Miles, Mike and Josh.

[ACCBBallFan]

The good:
- Austin Rivers driving to the basket. He hit runners. He hit layups. He drew fouls. Rivers looked fantastic going to the basket last night.
- Ryan Kelly across the board. He drew two charges (though one was perhaps borderline). He hit shots in the post. He hit perimeter shots. He passed well. He rebounded well. Just a good night all around from him.
- Mason Plumlee with a hook shot. It's a shot we've seen him take before (sweeping hook shot across the lane), and it came against a much smaller/inferior defender. But he still made a couple of nice little sweeping hooks. And he again was a presence throughout the game. He's never going to be Kevin McHale down there, but he looked solid.
- Andre Dawkins' first half shooting. Dawkins hit a flurry of 3s in the first half. He didn't do much after that, but he looked more involved. It appears that his involvement/energy may be highly correlated with his shooting. Hopefully he can continue to hit shots early (or get over the energy slumps).
- The bigs overall. Again, this should be expected, as we had a substantial advantage in height and skill inside. But it was good to see us take advantage and get 41 and 28 from our bigs. And it could have been more had they hit some free throws.

The bad:
- First half defense. Our perimeter guys were regularly getting beat off the dribble. And on other occasions when Shaw would set a high screen, our bigs weren't doing a good job of rotating to prevent the easy trip into the lane. This resulted in a lot of easy layups and wide open mid-range jumpers. Shaw's guards (and Abdur-Rahim) deserve a lot of credit for their effort in the first half, but we need to do better. The second half looked better defensively. We handled the screen better, and I'm guessing Shaw's guards wore down a bit (it takes a lot of energy to attack off the dribble on every possession). And Rivers looked at times very good defensively.
- Free throw shooting. We shot under 50%. Mason was 2-5, Hairston 0-3, Rivers 2-6. I'd expect Rivers to improve, and I doubt Hairston makes too many trips to the line this year anyway. But Mason's % is going to be relevant. He's going to play a lot, he's going to get fouled a lot. So he's going to need to hit a higher %.

The other:
- The rotations were a little closer to what I'd expect in real games, but still a bit deeper than I'd expect in ACC play. The big man rotation looked close to what I'd expect (rotating Kelly and the Plumlees, plugging in Hairston when foul trouble arises). The wing rotation was about right (Dawkins mostly, with one of Gbinije/Murphy backing up). The question will be at guard, and how the minutes Thornton and Cook split.
- Tony Smith looked very good.

The difference is the second half defense was moving Austin as main on ball defender, and coach K praised him for his willingness and effectiveness. I thought of Kobe asking K to guard to best player with Team USA.

I am thinking that except against very big teams, it will be Dre/Austin splitting the SF slot until Alex/Mike "get it". That will solve how to get Tyler/Quinn more PT while still giving bulk to Seth, Austin and Dre.

Josh will get even less time unless bigs are in foul trouble as the big 3 roughly split the 80 minutes at PF/C @ 25 or so each.

[MCFinARL]

The bad:

- Free throw shooting. We shot under 50%. Mason was 2-5, Hairston 0-3, Rivers 2-6. I'd expect Rivers to improve, and I doubt Hairston makes too many trips to the line this year anyway. But Mason's % is going to be relevant. He's going to play a lot, he's going to get fouled a lot. So he's going to need to hit a higher %.



Sadly, this sounds very much like Mason's free throw shooting last year. Given how obviously he needed to improve, one might have hoped that, with offseason work, his percentage would at least be up around 50 or 60. The better shooting he has shown from the floor (which is obviously a good thing) unfortunately may make him a bigger target for fouls--so the free throw percentage becomes even more important.

But given how rough everyone's free throw shooting was last night, maybe Mason will improve with the others once the team works out some of the more important gelling tasks and has time to focus on this? Just a thought/hope.....

[ACCBBallFan]

I think the offense needs to go through Austin like it did when Jay Williams was there. He is that type of game changer and he needs to have the ball in his hands, he needs to get his shots.

Yes, if Duke spreads the floor with Ryan-Dre-Seth and a Plumlee, that gives Austin a lot of options. Having only 1 turnover is a big turnaround for Austin as he evolves into the playmaker.

Now he just needs to relax and hit his FT's better.

When Austin is resting, Tyler can team with Miles as rugged defenders, or Quinn can set up Mason, Ryan and Dre and Seth in another variation of the spread offense this time with a traditional PG in Quinn rather than an unstoppable penetrator in Austin.

So I am thinking Tyler with Miles, Quinn with Mason.

Ryan-Austin-Dre-Seth with anybody, usually a Plum, but if one of them is out, anybody among Tyler, Quinn, Josh, Alex, or Mike.

[Lord Ash]

I cannot help but wonder if Mason's free throw shooting woes are somehow connected to what appears to me to be a case of not-terribly-natural hands. In fact, both Mason and Miles seem to have "weak" hands, not in terms of hand strength but more as if they are not fluid or natural when handling/shooting the ball. Casey Sanders was a great example of this (albeit at a higher level.) I know hands are a tough thing to evaluate, but they are very, very important... I would say having good hands is one of the primary reasons the staff has gone after Tony Parker so hard. Some players just seem to have a natural feel for the ball; it just always seems to end up in their hands in scrambles, they seem able to reel it in with only a few finger tips... other guys seem like they are almost fighting the ball with their hands at times, and tend to knock balls out of bounds or lose them. As of now, Mason definitely seems to be in that category.

[Olympic Fan]

It will be interesting to see how the two DII teams Duke played fare. I believe, watching both teams, that this is the best exhibition competition that we've ever faced.

The deal with playing the defending DII champion is nice, but teams usually win championships because they have senior stars -- so when Duke plays them the next year they are not as good. But Bellarmaine returned almost everybody from its championship team (six of their top seven, plus they added a Louisville transfer). They are the preseason No. 1 team in DII. They may not win it again, but they are a VERY good DII team.

Shaw did lose three starters from the team that won the CIAA and earned a No. 4 NCAA seed last year (in the DII Tournament). But Cleo Hill has reloaded with jucos (almost the whole team is juco players) and actually thinks that this team is more talented than last year. He said last night that he has one of the best backcourts in the nation -- at any level. They certainly looked very effective last night against a Duke perimeter that Luke Winn rated as the best in DI.

I think Duke did pretty well after the first six-seven minutes of the game, when the perimeter defense was awful -- when the bigs came over to help, the Shaw gaurds were great at dishing to the open big man, either for the layup or the short jumper that he made consistently. K said they changed the way they defended the picks and that helped. As for the final score that was a reflection of the points Duke left at the FT line and K's desire to look at some of his young players. His core group -- Curry, Rivers, Dawkins, Kelly and the Plumlees -- had built a 20-point lead with about five minutes left. Even with all the missed FTs, they could have won going away. But K cleared his bench. He had three freshmen (not Rivers), Tyler and Josh out there and they gave a bit of the lead back.

I think K noted that Duke didn't play as well as the final score against Bellarmaine ... but he thought they played better than the score against Shaw.

Speaking of competition, Duke is going to face one of the nation's best mid-majors in the opener. Belmost returns almost every key player from a 30-win NCAA team. They are probably better than the Belmont team that gave Duke fits in the 2008 NCAA opener (thank you Gerald Henderson!).

[COYS]

It will be interesting to see how the two DII teams Duke played fare. I believe, watching both teams, that this is the best exhibition competition that we've ever faced.

The deal with playing the defending DII champion is nice, but teams usually win championships because they have senior stars -- so when Duke plays them the next year they are not as good. But Bellarmaine returned almost everybody from its championship team (six of their top seven, plus they added a Louisville transfer). They are the preseason No. 1 team in DII. They may not win it again, but they are a VERY good DII team.

Shaw did lose three starters from the team that won the CIAA and earned a No. 4 NCAA seed last year (in the DII Tournament). But Cleo Hill has reloaded with jucos (almost the whole team is juco players) and actually thinks that this team is more talented than last year. He said last night that he has one of the best backcourts in the nation -- at any level. They certainly looked very effective last night against a Duke perimeter that Luke Winn rated as the best in DI.

I think Duke did pretty well after the first six-seven minutes of the game, when the perimeter defense was awful -- when the bigs came over to help, the Shaw gaurds were great at dishing to the open big man, either for the layup or the short jumper that he made consistently. K said they changed the way they defended the picks and that helped. As for the final score that was a reflection of the points Duke left at the FT line and K's desire to look at some of his young players. His core group -- Curry, Rivers, Dawkins, Kelly and the Plumlees -- had built a 20-point lead with about five minutes left. Even with all the missed FTs, they could have won going away. But K cleared his bench. He had three freshmen (not Rivers), Tyler and Josh out there and they gave a bit of the lead back.

I think K noted that Duke didn't play as well as the final score against Bellarmaine ... but he thought they played better than the score against Shaw.

Speaking of competition, Duke is going to face one of the nation's best mid-majors in the opener. Belmost returns almost every key player from a 30-win NCAA team. They are probably better than the Belmont team that gave Duke fits in the 2008 NCAA opener (thank you Gerald Henderson!).

Living in Nashville, I've gotten to see the evolution of the Belmont program firsthand. There's a lot of local excitement surrounding the program and Belmont is definitely not a team to take lightly (not that Duke needs any reminders of 2008). They are a talented and well coached team that returns a lot of experienced players. The Belmont game will be a very good yardstick for measuring the current state of the Duke team.

[OldPhiKap]

Bellmont is the alma mater of Minnie Pearl IIRC. So they've got that going for them. Which is nice.

[PallasAthena]

Somebody please post a picture!


2114

[ACCBBallFan]

If we esclude the rapoid burst by Dre that resulted in a +7 in 2.5 minutes:

When I sum all 2 player combos greater than 3, the top offensive weapons are:

51 - Ryan is +13 with Seth, +10 with Austin, +9.with with Mason and Dre, +6 with Tyler and +4 with Miles. So again, as Ryan goes, so goes the rest of Duke nation.

Ryan's name again appears in all rows below, as does Seth, and Austin does with everybody except Miles.

45 - Seth is +13 with Ryan, +10 with Austin, +7 with Mason, and Dre, +4 with Tyler and Miles.

34 - Austin is +10 with Ryan and Seth, +6 with Mason, +4 with Dre and Tyler, but not with Miles.

29 - Mason is +9 with Ryan, +7 with Seth and Dre, +6 with Austin but not with Tyler or Miles.

27 - Dre is +9 with Ryan, +7 with Seth and Mason and +4 with Austin., but not with Tyler or Miles.

20 - Tyler is +6 with Ryan and Miles, +4 with Seth and Austin.

14 - Miles is +6 with Tyler and +4 with Ryan and Seth

So this might imply swapping in [Miles and Tyler] together and [Mason and Dre] together.

Ryan-Seth can team with anybody and Austin is better with Ryan-Mason than with Miles.

For sake of discussion, say the starters are:

Seth
Dre
Austin
Ryan
Mason.

At first substitution sub in Miles and Tyler and possibly rest Austin and Ryan if they are in foul trouble or need a breather.

Tyler
Seth
Alex/Mike (Austin)
Josh (Ryan)
Miles

Then rest Seth nad play Quinn iwth the starters.

Quinn
Dre
Austin
Ryan/Mason
Mason/Miles

2.3 out of 3 rotations - Austin (sum 2.3)
2 Seth-Dre-Ryan-Mason (sum 10.3 or more)
1.5 Miles interangeable with Ryan/Mason @2 (sum 11.8 or more)

1 Tyler-Quinn (sum 13.8)

0.5 Josh (sum 14.3)
0.4 Mike/Alex (sum 14.7)
0.3 Alex/Mike (sum 15.0)

In close games the top 6 guys play more and the bottom3 guys play less with Tyler/Quinn still about 1 of 3 rotations, though their rotations may be shorter in duration.

If you convert this to minutes in a 40 minute game:

30 - Austin (Sum 30)

27.5 - Seth-Dre (sum 85)

25 - Ryan-Mason-Miles (sum 160)

12.5 - Tyler-Quinn (sum 185) not necessarily spliut evenly each game

06 - Josh (sum 191)

05 - Mike (sum (196)

04 - Alex (sum 200)

[Kedsy]

If you convert this to minutes in a 40 minute game:

30 - Austin (Sum 30)

27.5 - Seth-Dre (sum 85)

25 - Ryan-Mason-Miles (sum 160)

12.5 - Tyler-Quinn (sum 185) not necessarily spliut evenly each game

06 - Josh (sum 191)

05 - Mike (sum (196)

04 - Alex (sum 200)

I'm not sold yet that Alex went from competing for a starting spot all summer, to actually starting the first exhibition game, to being 11th man playing only 4 minutes a game. In your analysis, I'd add another substitution or two in which Alex takes 5 or so of Andre's minutes, and he probably takes one or two minutes each from Josh and Mike. Which would put him at 10 to 13 which I think is more reasonable.

[dcar1985]

I'm not sold yet that Alex went from competing for a starting spot all summer, to actually starting the first exhibition game, to being 11th man playing only 4 minutes a game. In your analysis, I'd add another substitution or two in which Alex takes 5 or so of Andre's minutes, and he probably takes one or two minutes each from Josh and Mike. Which would put him at 10 to 13 which I think is more reasonable.

In game performance counts for quite alot I would think

[Cameron]

I don't have a lot to say as I didn't get to see the action (was listening via online radio), but props to Andre for stepping up in the face of what I'm sure he considered a certain kind of personal adversity -- not starting the past couple of exhibition games after the 3-spot (yes I know K doesn't label players by #) was nobody's but his to lose over the summer -- and coming through with a monster first half of outside shooting. Twelve points on four triples. Not bad for a 23-minute night of work.

As other have described, Andre, certainly at times, is a bit of a mystery, as you never which player is going to show up emotionally. Whatever emotions he is experiencing on a given night, however, he certainly wears on his sleeves. (In that respect, he reminds me a bit of former New York bomber John Starks. He'll kill you when he's on, and disappear as quickly as a thief in the night when he's not.) But there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that it kills Andre inside to be this close to reaching greatness and not be able to grasp it. There are certainly a couple of areas where Andre could use a more polished finish, namely with respect to his handling of the ball and defensive pressure, but he has the key ingredients to become a total star in the game of basketball -- springy athleticism, sniper-caliber shooting, cavernous range, beautiful movement in transition and an unswerving belief in himself. He just needs to find a way to put it all together into a consistent package, and then he'll find that freedom that I know he craves to grow as a go-to threat on Coach K's team.

[CDu]

The difference is the second half defense was moving Austin as main on ball defender, and coach K praised him for his willingness and effectiveness. I thought of Kobe asking K to guard to best player with Team USA.

I think there were several keys. Shaw had more than one guard attacking off the dribble, so Rivers wasn't the "main" on-ball defender. Everyone did a better job, including the bigs (who stepped up more assertively on high picks). Rivers was indeed solid defensively throughout.


I am thinking that except against very big teams, it will be Dre/Austin splitting the SF slot until Alex/Mike "get it". That will solve how to get Tyler/Quinn more PT while still giving bulk to Seth, Austin and Dre.

My question wasn't so much "how to find minutes for Thornton and Cook?", but "which one will play more of the minutes?" I think Rivers and Curry will play 30+, Dawkins will play 20+, and Gbinije and Murphy will combine for 5-10. That leaves probably 20-25 for Thornton or Cook unless they REALLY trim Gbinije/Murphy minutes.


Josh will get even less time unless bigs are in foul trouble as the big 3 roughly split the 80 minutes at PF/C @ 25 or so each.

Yeah, I've been in the "Hairston will get 5-12 mpg as necessary" camp for a while. I think, if all goes well, we'll see 70-75 mpg for the Plumlees and Kelly. Hairston will get whatever is left.

[Kedsy]

In game performance counts for quite alot I would think

Well, I'm sure it counts for something. We've always been told that practice performance counts just as much at Duke. Either way, it's hard to imagine that Alex's game performance against Bellarmine led to his only getting 3 minutes against Shaw. Makes more sense that it had to do with the past week's practices. I don't think any of us can have a feel yet for how the bottom of the rotation will shake out.

[ACCBBallFan]

Well, I'm sure it counts for something. We've always been told that practice performance counts just as much at Duke. Either way, it's hard to imagine that Alex's game performance against Bellarmine led to his only getting 3 minutes against Shaw. Makes more sense that it had to do with the past week's practices. I don't think any of us can have a feel yet for how the bottom of the rotation will shake out.Proibably has a little to do with both.

If the starters are as they were vs. Shaw, the practice matchups are:

Tyler - Quinn

Seth - Dre

Austin - Mike/Alex

Mason - Ryan/Josh

Miles - Ryan/Marshall

My guess is that coach K is taking turns with Mike/Alex until they show which one deserves it. He sortof said that after the first exhibition.

Neither probably fares very well trying to guard Austin.

Not sure which one of Alex/Mike to label the SG vs. the SF, but that rotation at end of game may be the practice unit.

Quinn
Alex
Mike
Josh
Miles or another Plumlee

[dcar1985]

Well, I'm sure it counts for something. We've always been told that practice performance counts just as much at Duke. Either way, it's hard to imagine that Alex's game performance against Bellarmine led to his only getting 3 minutes against Shaw. Makes more sense that it had to do with the past week's practices. I don't think any of us can have a feel yet for how the bottom of the rotation will shake out.

Thats what i've been saying....you seemed to have had it figured out about a week ago

[Kedsy]

Thats what i've been saying....you seemed to have had it figured out about a week ago

A week ago I said it was my prediction. And I still think that's the way it's going to shake out (Alex, Tyler, and Quinn as the 7/8/9). But certainly nobody knows for sure.

[Troublemaker]

I was surprised when I saw the box that Austin only scored 12 points. Felt like 20. Made great decisions and finished well against a lack of size.

Great sign that Coach K was kind of getting on the team (especially Miles) in the postgame about not finishing all of their opportunities inside. For now, the expectations to me are as revealing as the actual output. Coach K really, truly expects the post to produce points this season and for Miles to be very good. Coach K is a man who usually gets what he wants.

[SilkyJ]

does any one have a link (preferably video) to the post game presser?

[SilkyJ]

Well guess I just have to do everything my self :)

linky (http://www.wralsportsfan.com/duke/video/10330404/#/vid10330404) for those who haven't seen it.

[Newton_14]

Well guess I just have to do everything my self :)

linky (http://www.wralsportsfan.com/duke/video/10330404/#/vid10330404) for those who haven't seen it.

WRAL carries all of the post-game pressers for free. The same pressers that require membership on GoDuke.com. Never have understood that. At any rate, bookmark WRAL as they carry all of them plus other presser's as well.

[Faustus]

By the way, on the subject of exhibition games, Louisville (pre-season #8 nationally I believe) defeated Bellarmine this evening in the Yum! Center by 8, leading only by 3 with a few minutes remaining in the game. But these matches are pre-season games for a reason...

[gep]

Somebody please post a picture!


2114

Sorry I don't know how to link here... But http://www.dukeblueplanet.com/ has a cool video of the 3 of them. Go to the 6th man video (don't think I saw a reference to this yet... Sorry if it's a duplicate)

[Son of Jarhead]

Sorry I don't know how to link here... But http://www.dukeblueplanet.com/ has a cool video of the 3 of them. Go to the 6th man video (don't think I saw a reference to this yet... Sorry if it's a duplicate)

http://www.youtube.com/user/DukeBluePlanet#p/u/0/5dMqV2nBkdo

What a great bunch of guys we are privileged to watch & get to know every season.... Go Duke!