I would love to see Sean Renfree play solo

[CameronBornAndBred]

Here's an interesting article on UVA's quarterback Michael Rocco. He was playing in a 2 QB system too. The keyword being "was". It's a system I hate with a passion. Think Renfree has any similar thoughts?

“It was nice to know that I was going to be in there the whole game, and kind of keep my rhythm and keep the flow of the game, and that’s really all that was,” Rocco said. “Every game previous I hadn’t really been looking over my shoulder, it was just how the flow of the game gets disrupted or my rhythm gets disrupted. This game was nice to keep the flow.”
http://espn.go.com/blog/acc/post/_/id/31866/uvas-rocco-relishes-full-time-role

[CameronBornAndBred]

Another thought...did our QB guru play the Mannings in a 2 QB system? He had done it with Thad..but he also let Thad play several games alone. It seems the 2 QB system has been a Duke curse dating back to the days of at least Carl Franks, I can't remember if Goldsmith employed it.

[dyedwab]

Another thought...did our QB guru play the Mannings in a 2 QB system? He had done it with Thad..but he also let Thad play several games alone. It seems the 2 QB system has been a Duke curse dating back to the days of at least Carl Franks, I can't remember if Goldsmith employed it.

Billy Ray and David Brown....

[wilko]

I would love to see Sean Renfree play Solo.

The soccer girl (http://twitter.com/#!/hopesolo)?
I suppose he would at that..

Renfree is really good from 20 to 20.. but I do wonder about his durability and mental readiness in the red-zone.

Sean has prolly forgotten more football than I'll ever know - I'm not going to pretend to be someone I'm not, and pose like I know a lot about the game..

However, that said - he seems tentative to me at times (red-zone) and I cant help but wonder if he is 100% over the leg injury. I feel hes "over-thinking" it a bit, trying too hard NOT to be pounded and loses a little focus on the drive.

If that's the case all the better to get Boone some reps and real red-zone practice.
Cuz if you think the worst will happen, it usually does... thats MY experience anyway..

[CameronBornAndBred]

Renfree is really good from 20 to 20.. but I do wonder about his durability and mental readiness in the red-zone.

I think his mental readiness in the red-zone consists of expecting to be yanked as soon as they get inside it so Boone can go in to set us up for the inevitable field goal. I want to see that expectation taken away.

[sagegrouse]

I don't remember the specifics at Duke, but at Florida and with the Redskins, more than one QB got to play. Spurrier would come up with an idea, call a substitute QB over, explain it, and send him into the game. I haven't watched South Carolina as much, but I know the Gamecocks have been using multiple QBs.

sagegrouse

[wilko]

I think his mental readiness in the red-zone consists of expecting to be yanked as soon as they get inside it so Boone can go in to set us up for the inevitable field goal. I want to see that expectation taken away.

It sounds to me like you are concerned about the outcome as opposed to Renfree or Boones play specifically.
If Boone got 6 more often would it matter? If Renfree connected on more deep routes to get 6 thus (bypassing red-zone) would it matter?

The pulling of Renfree inside the 20 is a bit like the chicken and egg debate.
Is Renfree needing to lead and stand up and say "I've got this"? (maybe he has? I don't know) If he HAS; what does it say about his development and play that the staff still goes with Boone? Maybe Renfree just needs to own it and make a stand.

I think its a mental thing related to the injury. He seizes up and stalls when the field gets short.
He has to want it enough to get past all that. I dunno. Thats the way it seems to this layman

I do want to believe that the Staff is trying to put us in position to win games and are going with the best chances of success.

If Sean fully trusted his line would he stall? If Sean were more mobile could he evade another big hit? Does he have faith to thread the needle on a short field? Does he trust his leg? Hes taken some big hits...

If I were him I cant say I wouldn't think about those things.
I hope he can shake it off and come out strong - but it strikes me as a bit odd that the pre-season was hype on Duke was points points and points BUT CAN they stop anybody? The defense has been there. The O has a governor on the Carburetor or something. It snot what I expected.

Is it overall QB play or play calling. Prolly some truth to both.

[OldPhiKap]

I don't remember the specifics at Duke, but at Florida and with the Redskins, more than one QB got to play. Spurrier would come up with an idea, call a substitute QB over, explain it, and send him into the game. I haven't watched South Carolina as much, but I know the Gamecocks have been using multiple QBs.

sagegrouse

Lately, USC has only used two when Spurrier decided to yank Garcia. And that option is no longer possible because they booted him.

I do not think he has used the tandem the way he did at UF, probably because he did not have the depth of talent in Columbia.

[Biscuit King]

If Renfree were actually playing better, this argument would make a lot more sense. He is 9th in the ACC in passing efficiency and continues to make a lot of unforced errors and poor decisions. When he makes the right decision and has enough time, his accuracy is great. Far too often, he holds the ball too long, makes the wrong decision, or shows a slow release that allows defenders to knock the ball down. When he starts playing like Thad Lewis, then I'll agree we shouldn't give Boone snaps. For now, I think it's fair to question whether Renfree is even more effective than Boone.

[killerleft]

To state the obvious: the short passing game is less successful when the field gets cramped. Putting in Boone (or Connette before him) gives us an option not really there when Sean plays, especially inside the ten. Why expose Sean to more hits? He takes enough, eh?

Since Duke has let Boone pass more than Connette was allowed, I feel a bit more comfortable with him in the game. I would like to see some rollouts designed around Boone to fully take advantage of what he brings with his "package".

[Bob Green]

I would like to see some rollouts designed around Boone to fully take advantage of what he brings with his "package".

I'll take your comment one step further and say I would like to see some rollouts with Renfree when we are between the 20s. I believe rolling Renfree out, off play action, could cut down on some of the hits he is taking in the pocket, while simultaneously making our offense more versatile. I'm not advocating abandoning the "drop back in the pocket" approach, but rather advocating the offense mix it up some by including more rollout plays. Moreover, rolling out should result in more than 2.6 seconds being available to throw the ball, which would facilitate a vertical passing attack.


--I'm not going to pretend to be someone I'm not, and pose like I know a lot about the game..

Another frustrating thing for me about our offense or more specifically the play calling, and I like Wilko am no football expert, is we do not seem to repeat plays, which are successful. Two examples, first, we ran an end around with Jamison Crowder and gained a critical 1st down that sealed the victory against FIU. I have not seen us run this play again (I didn't watch the FSU game). Yes, we have had Crowder run the ball on the play where he is in motion and receives the inside hand-off, but I have not seen us run the true end around play again. The second example is the toss sweep with Desmond Scott. Scott scored the winning touchdown, in the Virginia game last year, on a 30+ yard toss sweep. To the best of my knowledge, we've never run the play again. Am I wrong?

[CDu]

Another frustrating thing for me about our offense or more specifically the play calling, and I like Wilko am no football expert, is we do not seem to repeat plays, which are successful. Two examples, first, we ran an end around with Jamison Crowder and gained a critical 1st down that sealed the victory against FIU. I have not seen us run this play again (I didn't watch the FSU game). Yes, we have had Crowder run the ball on the play where he is in motion and receives the inside hand-off, but I have not seen us run the true end around play again. The second example is the toss sweep with Desmond Scott. Scott scored the winning touchdown, in the Virginia game last year, on a 30+ yard toss sweep. To the best of my knowledge, we've never run the play again. Am I wrong?

First, kudos for not calling the end around a reverse (thank you!). I happened to hear a bit of the Panthers game on the radio Sunday and heard Eugene Robinson talking about a "reverse" (which actually an end around). Can't paid commentators (and I realize Robinson should probably be loosely defined in that role) can't get it right?

Anyway, rant over. There definitely seem like some plays we should run more. Instead, it seems like we keep calling the same plays that don't work (namely the QB keeper from what is basically a wildcat package). It does seem like the playcalling could use some work.

[jafarr1]

Renfree went solo for the entire FIU game.

Our OL did a lousy job protecting Sean that game, and he got pretty well beat up. FSU got to him a number of times as well, and by the end of the Wake game, Sean could barely plant his leg to throw the ball. He tried to gut it out on that last drive, but his throws were all over the place.

As others have suggested, putting in Boone in the red zone might be a way to protect Sean in an area of the field when the other team is going to dial up blitz coverages when he's in the game.

It's also worth noting that against Virginia Tech, Boone got an entire series in the second quarter. That's a more traditional way for coaches to get their back-up QB's some playing time.

[CameronBornAndBred]

As others have suggested, putting in Boone in the red zone might be a way to protect Sean in an area of the field when the other team is going to dial up blitz coverages when he's in the game.

I've enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts, but you've hit on my biggest concern, which is that we trust Sean to lead us on a great drive then take away his opportunity for reward. He got hit in the FIU game, but guess what? That happens to a QB, he still led us to victory. By putting in Boone in the redzone, we put in a guy who goes in cold and we tell the guy who got us down the field "thanks for the last 60 yards, but we don't think you have another 20 in you." That's just my take and it drives me batty. Renfree may very well buy into the system and the coaches' game plan, but I sure wouldn't blame him if he is over there on the sidelines wondering what the outcome would be if he were still in the game.

[killerleft]

I've enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts, but you've hit on my biggest concern, which is that we trust Sean to lead us on a great drive then take away his opportunity for reward. He got hit in the FIU game, but guess what? That happens to a QB, he still led us to victory. By putting in Boone in the redzone, we put in a guy who goes in cold and we tell the guy who got us down the field "thanks for the last 60 yards, but we don't think you have another 20 in you." That's just my take and it drives me batty. Renfree may very well buy into the system and the coaches' game plan, but I sure wouldn't blame him if he is over there on the sidelines wondering what the outcome would be if he were still in the game.

Yeah, that's the downside of having a "redzone" QB. Any time we don't score a TD, it would be only natural for Sean to wonder how HE would have done. Then again, the reason we have a redzone QB is because of the answer we've gotten previously. My take is that it is not Sean's fault. The short passing game (which has allowed us to put up some impressive time-of-possession numbers this year) has some shortcomings when we get close to TD land. A tall, sure-handed wide receiver would sure make things easier. It's hard to run a corner-fade route with the Killer Vs.

[jafarr1]

I've enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts, but you've hit on my biggest concern, which is that we trust Sean to lead us on a great drive then take away his opportunity for reward. He got hit in the FIU game, but guess what? That happens to a QB, he still led us to victory. By putting in Boone in the redzone, we put in a guy who goes in cold and we tell the guy who got us down the field "thanks for the last 60 yards, but we don't think you have another 20 in you." That's just my take and it drives me batty. Renfree may very well buy into the system and the coaches' game plan, but I sure wouldn't blame him if he is over there on the sidelines wondering what the outcome would be if he were still in the game.

See, I think Renfree was given a chance to run solo for a while, and didn't get it done. Look at his recent history. Boone did not play against FIU or FSU. Renfree did decently against FIU, one of the weakest teams on our schedule, but we only won that game because of a forced fumble. Renfree was uninspiring in any part of the field against FSU, to put it mildly.

Against Wake, Renfree got all but two plays in the first half: Boone was inserted for a 3rd-and-2 well outside the red zone, and for the 4th-and-1 where Kyle Hill false-started on a key play for the fortieth time. Renfree did take the team into the red zone on the last drive of the first half, but only got the ball to the 9 before the coaching staff decided to kick the FG. The other drives were all Sean, and his performance elicited Cutcliffe's halftime criticisms about dumping the ball off too much.

After Renfree's first drive in the second half stalled out for another FG, we brought in Boone in the red zone on the two subsequent drives, and he scored TDs. It's not like Boone was brought in and left Renfree frustrated that the team didn't score more than a FG. If Renfree was upset that Duke only got a FG on the third drive, he's asking more of Boone than he delivered. If Renfree was upset that Boone was brought in at all, well, he had his chances to make plays before that.

If you want to talk about the Va Tech game in isolation, I can see your argument a bit more, but it's not like Renfree showed many flashes in that game either. He started out off-target in that game, throwing two INTs in the first quarter caused by off-target passes, and only then did we start to play Boone a lot more. The lone TD drive included 45 yards of penalties, including one that bailed us out on 4th down.

Sean's had his chances, and I struggle to see where in any of those games his confidence should be affected by when we played Boone. If he wants to be the man for the entire length of the field, fine, but I think he should prove that he should be the man first. I would argue he hasn't done that.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Boone came in twice today. The first resulted in an illegal procedure penalty (this is the second game in a row this has happened) because, IMO, the flow of the game was interrupted. That instantly brought Renfree back in and whatever play they had designed for Boone went back to the bench with him. His second appearance was in the red zone (after Renfree had already successfully run in one himself). Everyone in the stadium knew what was going to happen and we turned the ball over on downs as Boone was smushed into the dirt. Instead of scoring at least 3, we got squat.
Please, Coach Roper, give this scheme up.

[Wander]

Boone came in twice today. The first resulted in an illegal procedure penalty (this is the second game in a row this has happened) because, IMO, the flow of the game was interrupted. That instantly brought Renfree back in and whatever play they had designed for Boone went back to the bench with him. His second appearance was in the red zone (after Renfree had already successfully run in one himself). Everyone in the stadium knew what was going to happen and we turned the ball over on downs as Boone was smushed into the dirt. Instead of scoring at least 3, we got squat.
Please, Coach Roper, give this scheme up.

You forgot the third time when Boone came in and promptly fumbled the ball deep in Duke territory, setting up an easy Miami touchdown.

[CameronBlue]

Boone came in twice today. The first resulted in an illegal procedure penalty (this is the second game in a row this has happened) because, IMO, the flow of the game was interrupted. That instantly brought Renfree back in and whatever play they had designed for Boone went back to the bench with him. His second appearance was in the red zone (after Renfree had already successfully run in one himself). Everyone in the stadium knew what was going to happen and we turned the ball over on downs as Boone was smushed into the dirt. Instead of scoring at least 3, we got squat.
Please, Coach Roper, give this scheme up.

As a point of emphasis, let me restate your post another way: Cut/Roper changed QBs from Renfree to Boone to Renfree without running an official play from scrimmage. Good grief. Forget the obvious fact that 3rd and 6 is a passing situation, 3 and 1 a running situation. That sequence produced a momentum crushing, drive-killing procedure penalty and the possibility that Duke was sucked back into a mental black hole, playing toward a scripted ending it couldn't avert.

So a lot has been discussed of what is called, in all its forms, the "culture of losing" at Duke. If that notion is more than metaphysical nonsense then Cut is tinkering with a fragile psyche that is scarred by every manner of loss from the odds-defying last second squeaker to the predictable wipeout. One ill-conceived play can put Duke back into its funk. I was beginning to believe that under Cut, Duke was beginning to escape the gravitational field of this "culture of losing" but I'm beginning to fear that it's more a state of mind which defines Duke's football existence and from which there is no escape. Except to leap from the ledge, and I'm almost there. To be free again, to dream, perchance to fly.

[1999ballboy]

Anthony Boone's name isn't Brandon Connette, so I guess I don't have a huge problem with it. I like Boone and think he'll be a good Duke QB. Cut just needs to be careful not to make this a routine again so that defenses will come to expect this, like they did with Connette, and destroy us in the Red Zone.

[CameronBornAndBred]

You forgot the third time when Boone came in and promptly fumbled the ball deep in Duke territory, setting up an easy Miami touchdown.
Seriously? LOL...sigh. I had already turned off the TV by that point and listened to the post game in the car.