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View Full Version : More Summer League Madness - Shelden Williams gets in on the act



DavidBenAkiva
07-15-2007, 12:04 AM
Shelden Williams has been pretty impressive in two games for the Atlanta Hawks in the Rocky Mountain Revue. He chipped in 23 points and 11 rebounds tonight after giving 11 and 8 on Friday. He's been starting at Center for the young Hawks team and Al Horford has played about as many minutes, often times alongside Williams as far as I can tell.

To be sure, the Hawks have a number of young forwards and a center or two, so the rotation probably won't work out where Williams and Horford play together, but it is interesting to see both thrive on the court. I'd also like to point out that there aren't many real centers in the RMR, so that might play a factor, too.

From what I understand, here's next year's Hawks frontcourt:

Josh Childress 2/3
Josh Smith 3/4
Marvin Williams 3/4
Al Horford 4
Shelden Williams 4/5
Zaza Pachulia 4/5

None of them are taller than 6'10" but all have some nice skills. It should be very interesting to see how that situation plays out next year. I'm assuming that Lorenzo Wright and Solomon Jones aren't going to be in the picture...

JasonEvans
07-15-2007, 06:28 AM
From what I understand, here's next year's Hawks frontcourt:

Josh Childress 2/3
Josh Smith 3/4
Marvin Williams 3/4
Al Horford 4
Shelden Williams 4/5
Zaza Pachulia 4/5

None of them are taller than 6'10" but all have some nice skills. It should be very interesting to see how that situation plays out next year. I'm assuming that Lorenzo Wright and Solomon Jones aren't going to be in the picture...

Oh, but the geniuses running the Hawks signed Lorenzen Wright to a 2 year, $6 million dollar deal before the start of last season, meaning they either eat his $3 million for this season or he is on the roster. What a smart move that was!

The Hawks currently have 14 players under contract for the 2008 season. Solomon Jones is almost certainly going to be the odd man out as his contract is a team option and unless someone gets hurt or they buy out someone else then they will have to set him free.

I suppose the other option would be if the Hawks made a trade, but after refusing to pull the trigger on any deal during the draft, it appears they are not going to make any deals. Their insane ownership structure makes it impossible to deal, I think.

Ah well. I'd almost be disappointed at this point if the Hawks started making smart moves and winning games. It is more fun to be a joke of the league. If only they had taken Yi with the 3rd pick and then he had refused to play for them-- that would have been perfect!

-Jason "I will never forgive Billy Knight for drafting Josh Childress over Luol Deng... NEVER!" Evans

Channing
07-15-2007, 04:27 PM
Oh, but the geniuses running the Hawks signed Lorenzen Wright to a 2 year, $6 million dollar deal before the start of last season, meaning they either eat his $3 million for this season or he is on the roster. What a smart move that was!

The Hawks currently have 14 players under contract for the 2008 season. Solomon Jones is almost certainly going to be the odd man out as his contract is a team option and unless someone gets hurt or they buy out someone else then they will have to set him free.

I suppose the other option would be if the Hawks made a trade, but after refusing to pull the trigger on any deal during the draft, it appears they are not going to make any deals. Their insane ownership structure makes it impossible to deal, I think.

Ah well. I'd almost be disappointed at this point if the Hawks started making smart moves and winning games. It is more fun to be a joke of the league. If only they had taken Yi with the 3rd pick and then he had refused to play for them-- that would have been perfect!

-Jason "I will never forgive Billy Knight for drafting Josh Childress over Luol Deng... NEVER!" Evans

Jason - Im with you on never forgiving Billy Knight for drafting Childress over Deng, the other one from that draft that I cannot ever forgive him for is drafting Royale Ivey in the second round over Duhon. That still baffles me.

DavidBenAkiva
07-15-2007, 04:41 PM
I, for one, am very happy with Billy Knight! I get to watch Deng and Duhon here in Chicago, and that has been a blast. Hopefully, they'll deal Shelden Williams to Chicago, and he can take playing time away from Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah!

In all honesty, I'm looking forward to watching Noah and Thomas. I think that TT will have a very good year and justify Paxson's decision to take him instead of Lamarcus Aldrige.

Time flies like an arrow
Fruit flies like a banana

cspan37421
07-16-2007, 06:12 AM
Jason,

What IS the Hawks ownership structure? All I know is that they haven't been competitive in a really long time; that a few players that they dealt ended up showing that their skills could not be recognized/showcased in ATL (e.g. Jason Terry - a handful of others too); and that they seem to resist signing a real floor general (PG).

For all their incompetence on the court and in the front office, they are generous with goodies for the fans. Just walking through the door they hand you posters, a program, and other goodies; at the Mavs game last year they were handing out Dominique Wilkins throwback jerseys. Now, these had printed, not sewn on letters, but still, for the $10 cheap seats (we move at halftime to the empty better ones), it's pretty good.

ACCBBallFan
07-16-2007, 06:42 AM
I grew up and STL and used to like the Hawks, til about 1958 or so when they moved to ATL.

Spoke
07-16-2007, 07:34 AM
What IS the Hawks ownership structure?

That is a question currently in dispute. Ownership is divided between Boston-based Steve Belkin and a group of Atlanta owners known collectively as "The Atlanta Spirit." Belkin claims the contractual right to buy out the Atlanta Spirit group (at a bargain price). The Atlanta Spirit sued to prevent this. The lower court agreed with Belkin, and the case is on appeal. While the case is pending, I believe an order is in place which prevents the Hawks from making a trade unless both sides in the ownership dispute sign off on it. Given the level of animosity, that is hard to manage.

The Hawks are pretty much in limbo until the Court of Appeals renders a decision. For some reason, the case is pending in Maryland. Not sure why.

JasonEvans
07-16-2007, 07:50 AM
Jason,

What IS the Hawks ownership structure? All I know is that they haven't been competitive in a really long time; that a few players that they dealt ended up showing that their skills could not be recognized/showcased in ATL (e.g. Jason Terry - a handful of others too); and that they seem to resist signing a real floor general (PG).


Sigh... what a woeful story this is.

The Hawks are owned by The Atlanta Spirit Group, a collection of 9 different guys with 9 diffferent agendas. It includes Steve Belkin, an entrepreneur from Boston who owns 30% of the Spirit. Ed Peskowitz and Bruce Levenson are a couple businessmen from Washington DC who used to own part of the Caps or the Wizards or something like that. Then there are some Atlanta guys like Micheal Gearon (former Hawks GM and President) and Dominique Wilkens. It is a diverse group.

Anyway, a couple years ago when the Hawks were about to make the Joe Johnson deal, Steve Belkin said, "wait a sec, this is a bad deal" and he tried to stop it. He said he had the right to veto the deal because he was the managing partner or something like that. The other Hawks owners tried to remove him from the main ownership slot and the whole thing ended up going to court. It is not clear what Belkin objected to in the Johnson deal. Early on, it was reported that he was a cheap owner who did not want to spend money on Johnson but since then it has come out that he may have just objected to the sign-and-trade deal that sent Boris Diaw and a pair of first round draft picks to Phoenix. Apparently, Belkin felt that Phoenix could not afford to match the Hawk's offer for Johnson and he wanted to call their bluff. In retrospect, if that is why he objected to the deal, then he is a genius because the Suns just destroyed the Hawks on the Johnson deal and there is no way the Suns were going to match the Hawks offer on Johnson.

Anyway, back to the lunatic asylum that is the Hawks ownership-- the other Hawks owners took Belkin to court and after appeals and all other kinds of nonsense, Belkin entered a deal to have the team appraised and sell his stake to the other owners of the team. There was an out though-- if they could not come up with the money to buy him out, he would get to buy them out at the price they had orginally paid for the team.

Well, about six months later the bumbling idiots opposing Belkin missed their window for buying him out and he said, "fine, then I am gonna buy you out." So, they all went back to court. Woo Hoo!!! For a while there was an injunction that prohibited the Hawks from signing anyone to more than a one-year contract because the ownership was so up in the air no one knew who had the final "yes" on what kind of offer to make to free agents.

I am not sure where the whole process stands right now. I think Belkin won a recent appeal and he may be very close to actually owning the team. If he gets control, it is widely assumed that he will promptly get rid of Billy Knight and Mike Woodson, which would be a shame because they are two of the smartest men in basketball... NOT!!!!

-Jason "Hawks basketball-- its sucktastic!" Evans

JasonEvans
07-16-2007, 08:12 AM
How bad are the Hawks? In the course of surfing around today I found the following information that should lay to rest any question as to what the worst franchise in the NBA currently is.

The Hawks have not drafted a player who went on to become an All-Star since they drafted Kevin Willis in 1984. That's 23 years without drafting a single All-star. That is the longest such streak of any team in any sport in the U.S.

The Hawks have now gone 8 seasons without qualifying for the playoffs-- the longest such streak in the NBA. During those 8 seasons the Hawks have lost 50-or-more games 6 times including their current streak of 4 consecutive 50-loss seasons. When you consider that they play in the considerably easier Eastern conference and that they are near the top of the lottery every year, this is quite an impressive feat. In the past 8 years, the best the Hawks have been was 35-47 in 2002-03. That's right, 12 games under .500 is the best they have been in the past 8 years.

From an historical standpoint, the Hawks have not made the NBA finals since 1961. Nest season will also be the 50th anniversary of the season where the St. Lousi Hawks won the franchises one and only NBA title. Needless to say, I was not a Hawks fan back then (I was not even born yet!).

The sad thing is, this was not that bad a franchise for a long time. From 1977 until 1999 they made the playoffs in 18 out of 22 seasons. They almost always lost in the first round which used to make me really angry, but I now look back on those years as the glory days. Ha!! In fairness, they made the conference semifinals 9 times and had at least one very memorable series against the Celtics in 1988 that featured one of the great mano-a-mano battles of all time (http://www.nba.com/history/shootout_boston.html) between Larry Bird and Dominque Wilkens.

Ah well. At this point I am rooting for a Clippers-like run of futility that makes the team a punchline to jokes. I figure if I root for them to be horrible, maybe they will disappoint me like usual and be good ;)

-Jason "it takes hard work to be bad for this long in the NBA with the way the draft works" Evans

RepoMan
07-16-2007, 09:15 AM
-Jason "it takes hard work to be bad for this long in the NBA with the way the draft works" Evans

Actually, its not that hard. Take a look around the NBA and the considerable lack of judgement. To establish perennial suckiness, you just need to do two things: (i) make bad draft decisions and (ii) overpay mediocre players. I don't really follow the Hawks that closely, but I bet they have those two bases covered. A good GM makes all the difference. Take the Wizards.

I mean, I can't begin to describe the lengthy history of terrible decisions in the Unseld / Jordan era. Monster contract to Juwan Howard. Young and healty Chris Weber for Mitch Richmond. Draft picks like Kwame. (I would watch the Pistons and all the ex-Wizards (Hamilton, R. Wallace, B. Wallace, Weber) and cringe.

Then, Grunfeld comes in and boom: sign Arenas; trade for Jamison; don't overpay Hughes; trade Kwame for Caron. Even little things like holding firm, understanding the market, and resigning Deshawn Stephenson at a good price. I really think the biggest thing is managing the cap by not paying too much for the wrong guy.

Anyway, hopefully, your ownership situation will get resolved, and they'll bring in someone with a clue.

mapei
07-16-2007, 09:40 PM
Why would you guys prefer that Deng and Duhon get drafted by Philadelphia? That's just another hapless team that no one cares about. Chicago was a much better place for them.

And I am not pleased that Shel is stuck in Atlanta!

DavidBenAkiva
07-17-2007, 01:31 AM
Tonight (Mon, 7/6), Shelden Williams continued his good play, chipping in 20 points and a team-high 9 boards in win over Dallas. The Landlord was 6 of 12 from the field and 8 of 11 from the line. Al Horford sat on the bench in street clothes.

gus
07-17-2007, 07:43 AM
Why would you guys prefer that Deng and Duhon get drafted by Philadelphia? That's just another hapless team that no one cares about. Chicago was a much better place for them.

And I am not pleased that Shel is stuck in Atlanta!

Are you confusing Billy Knight and Billy King?

mapei
07-18-2007, 10:36 AM
No, just making two mostly unconnected points. I don't understand why people are pissed that those two guys were passed over by Philly when, IMO, they dodged a bullet.

Shel wasn't so lucky. He got caught by his bullet, albeit from a different source, and is playing on a lousy team without much brightness on the horizon.

greybeard
07-18-2007, 12:28 PM
Actually, its not that hard. Take a look around the NBA and the considerable lack of judgement. To establish perennial suckiness, you just need to do two things: (i) make bad draft decisions and (ii) overpay mediocre players. I don't really follow the Hawks that closely, but I bet they have those two bases covered. A good GM makes all the difference. Take the Wizards.

I mean, I can't begin to describe the lengthy history of terrible decisions in the Unseld / Jordan era. Monster contract to Juwan Howard. Young and healty Chris Weber for Mitch Richmond. Draft picks like Kwame. (I would watch the Pistons and all the ex-Wizards (Hamilton, R. Wallace, B. Wallace, Weber) and cringe.

Then, Grunfeld comes in and boom: sign Arenas; trade for Jamison; don't overpay Hughes; trade Kwame for Caron. Even little things like holding firm, understanding the market, and resigning Deshawn Stephenson at a good price. I really think the biggest thing is managing the cap by not paying too much for the wrong guy.

Anyway, hopefully, your ownership situation will get resolved, and they'll bring in someone with a clue.

I think that Ernie is great too, but I also think that he has created for himself one huge, huge problem, a "glass ceiling" for lack of a better term. Let me explain.

Ernie hired himself a great coach, a devote' of the Princeton style of offense. So, how come all we have heard from the guy is "the Big Three?" What kind of team wins with the coach basically calling the other two guys on the court little more than "mules?" More importantly, who is going to be content with such a role (How come the two bigs are fighting and neither can get along with the coach)?

So, how come it came to that, how did Edie and Ernie go from one of the best five-men systems ever devised to one that is the antithesis of team basketball. Two words, and the first is Gilbert and the second starts with "A." Don't get me wrong, I love the guy; I'd even pay to watch him if I wasn't so tight and could stand the musak and what not that they insist on dressing up the great game in. But, Gil cannot play his game and throw the ball inside. No, I did not say Gil doesn't like to throw the ball inside, or lacks the receivers to throw it inside (that's the excuse everyone advances for the Zards lack of an inside game but it is crapola). What I said was, and what the truth is, that throwing penetrating passes to bigs for them to create, to become involved in ball distribution, and heaven forbid, attacking the basket their own selves, well, Gil just can't see it.

Oh, sometimes the Zards try to get it inside. But, let one of the bigs mishandle even once, or throw up an ugly one (you don't get the calls when you are not a "player", btw), and they throw up their hands and that is that. On those occasions when an inside game materializes, Gil disappears--scores in single digits and does not produce at all.

So, what I believe is that Ernie has a real problem. The problem is that Gilbert is the "star" who can't throw it inside (find a big who wants to play with the guy) and who won't play defense. Ernie has himself a team that will entertain, that might make it past the first round, but will never contend as long as Gil is around.

The problem has been compounded by the Zards' marketing strategy. "The Big Three" sells and they have sold it. Suzie is so, so good at that; gosh we are gonna miss her.

The only way I see for the Zards to really make progress to the goal of contending (I am sure that that is what Abe wants, but doubt that the organization people really look beyond the bottom line and job security) is to trade Gilbert. Keep the guy from Spain, trade Gilbert and one of the bigs for Binam and Jordan Farmar and a pick, and start playing the Princeton like we were promised. That, of course, will never happen, which I believe makes Ernie's performance here way, way less than A-1. He built himself a house with a glass ceiling that no one else cares to see, and cannot tear it down without the masses calling him a complete idiot. As a consequence, We, in DC, are probably gonna remain wannabes and Ernie will be the guy who could really get it done but not quite.

Oh, btw, I think that Atlanta also has a real problem regarding getting the ball to the bigs. But there I think the problem is readily soluable. Get rid of Woody, and let Larry Drew coach the team. Then, Maipai, you might have a very different feeling about Shel's situation.

Spoke
07-18-2007, 01:40 PM
Shelden puts up more good numbers in a losing effort: (http://www.ajc.com/hawks/content/sports/hawks/stories/2007/07/17/summerhawks_0718.html)


Shelden Williams, currently the leading scorer at the Rocky Mountain Revue, scored 20 points, his third 20-point effort in four games.