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whereinthehellami
10-27-2011, 02:44 PM
I thought this would be a good place for people to provide input on ACC teams other than Duke.

I've been following VT in addition to Duke and think the Hokies should be right below Duke and UNC this year in the standings. I'm of the belief that Delaney and Allen weren't the best teams players last year and that there losses won't be that huge of a problem for the Hokies this year. The big issue to me is who will be the leader, or go to player, the same issue that Duke is facing. My guess is that Green (JR guard) is ready to step up and fill that void.

Losses from last year
Delaney (6-3, G) - 19 ppg, 4.0 apg, 41% 3-pt
Allen (6-7, F) - 13.4 ppg, 9.7 RPG,
Bell (6-7, G/F) - 6.9 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 40% 3-pt
Atkins (6-7, G/F) - 13.3 mpg

Additions for this year(RSCI)
Dorian Finney-Smith (#22, 6-7, F)
Robert Brown (#86, 6-4, G)
C.J. Barksdale (#100, 6-7, F)

Projected lineup
Green 6-3, JR, 11.6 ppg, 2.7 apg
Hudson 6-5, SR, 10.4 ppg
Thompson 6-6, SR, 7.3 ppg, 4.6 rpg
Smith 6-8, FR
Davilla 6-8, SR, 7.4 ppg, 5.1 rpg

Eddie 6-7, SO, 10.9 mpg
Raines 6-9, SO
Brown 6-4, FR
Garland 6-1 SO

While this is an undersized team, they do have a lot of experience and length. This is the type of team that could Duke some problems with their length and athletic ability. Hudson and Thompson were both injured last year but are back this year. They would have started last year, so it's really like the Hokies return 4 starters (3 Sr, 1 JR). And the projected 5th starter is a five star recruit (VT's highest ever). Smith is a due it all type player who has all the tools and is a team player (maybe too much so).

Word out of blacksburg so far this year is that Green and Hudson are lighting it up and look like they could make 2nd team All-ACC (Hudson made 2nd team 2 years ago). Smith is also said to be one of the better ball handlers and distributor's on the team and could cause some matchup issues if he gets more aggressive with the ball.

Rebounding will be an issue for this team and looks like it will be a group effort. Losing Chaney to a heart condition probably cost the Hokies a chance at 2nd place in the ACC.

Steaky perimeter shooting could also be an issue for the Hokies. Green and Hudson are streaky but proven outside shooters while Eddie and Brown could be even better but they are inexperienced players.

All in all, I see the Hokies making the tourney this year. I think they have good experienced players and I don't think they will suffer the injury bug this year. If Green develops into a leader and the team stays close they could make some noise tourney time.

CDu
10-27-2011, 03:27 PM
I've been following VT in addition to Duke and think the Hokies should be right below Duke and UNC this year in the standings. I'm of the belief that Delaney and Allen weren't the best teams players last year and that there losses won't be that huge of a problem for the Hokies this year. The big issue to me is who will be the leader, or go to player, the same issue that Duke is facing. My guess is that Green (JR guard) is ready to step up and fill that void.

...

Word out of blacksburg so far this year is that Green and Hudson are lighting it up and look like they could make 2nd team All-ACC (Hudson made 2nd team 2 years ago). Smith is also said to be one of the better ball handlers and distributor's on the team and could cause some matchup issues if he gets more aggressive with the ball.

Rebounding will be an issue for this team and looks like it will be a group effort. Losing Chaney to a heart condition probably cost the Hokies a chance at 2nd place in the ACC.

Steaky perimeter shooting could also be an issue for the Hokies. Green and Hudson are streaky but proven outside shooters while Eddie and Brown could be even better but they are inexperienced players.

All in all, I see the Hokies making the tourney this year. I think they have good experienced players and I don't think they will suffer the injury bug this year. If Green develops into a leader and the team stays close they could make some noise tourney time.

I agree that Delaney and Allen weren't very system-oriented players. But they were Tech's only two guys who could consistently create mismatches for the opposition last year (especially Delaney). Delaney often singlehandedly kept the Hokies in games with his ability to score. Without him, there's a LOT of uncertainty as to who is going to provide scoring for the Hokies. Hudson had some big games two years ago, but he's been out a year, and he doesn't have the benefit of being the lower-pressure "second/third option" anymore.

I'd have said the chances of Tech threatening Duke for the #2 spot were pretty remote even before losing Chaney. I don't see them being any better than last year, and they were a mid-tier ACC team last year. They could maybe end up 3rd in the conference (though they wouldn't be my first pick), but that's more a reflection that everyone else in the rest of the conference is mediocre too. Basically, I see UNC and Duke and then a lot of question marks.

ACCBBallFan
10-27-2011, 04:13 PM
Since they were all injured last year, you could almost count Dorenzo Hudson, J T Thompson and Cedarian Raines as newcomers along with Finney-Smith and Barksdale. So lots of positives to offset Jeff Allen and Malcolm Delaney who were talented but not the most team oriented.

Olympic Fan
10-27-2011, 11:46 PM
I'll be surprised if Virginia Tech is not a bubble team again ... maybe this year they can wind up on the right side of the bubble for a change.

Just one note about another team. The Miami preview on the DBR frnt page left out one significant addition -- transfer guard Trey McKinney-Jones, who averaged 11 ppg two years ago at Missouri-KC. He's likely to be the third guard in their rotation, after Grant and Scott. He'll play more than Bishop Daniels.

OldPhiKap
10-28-2011, 03:44 AM
I'll be surprised if Virginia Tech is not a bubble team again ... maybe this year they can wind up on the right side of the bubble for a change.

Looks like the non-conference schedule may have stepped up a bit -- OK. State. BYU, Kansas St., Campbell (a former first-round opponent of Duke in the tourney -- '99 or '01 perhaps?). So at least Seth is out there trying.

But, yeah, it seems that Seth always sits squarely on the bubble. Which is a bad metaphor and nasty mental image.

whereinthehellami
10-28-2011, 08:35 AM
I'd have said the chances of Tech threatening Duke for the #2 spot were pretty remote even before losing Chaney. I don't see them being any better than last year, and they were a mid-tier ACC team last year. They could maybe end up 3rd in the conference (though they wouldn't be my first pick), but that's more a reflection that everyone else in the rest of the conference is mediocre too. Basically, I see UNC and Duke and then a lot of question marks.

The coaches had said that Chaney was a starter last year before he collapsed. And that was before Hudson and Thompson got hurt. The coaches were really high on him. So the Hokies basically lost 3 starters last year. No other team in the ACC could have lost 3 staters and not had a dissappointing season.


Since they were all injured last year, you could almost count Dorenzo Hudson, J T Thompson and Cedarian Raines as newcomers along with Finney-Smith and Barksdale. So lots of positives to offset Jeff Allen and Malcolm Delaney who were talented but not the most team oriented.

I think that is a stretch to say that because Hudson and Thompson were injured last year its like they are starting over. Hudson was 2nd team All-ACC. And reports are that he is 100% and looking really good this pre-season. The word on Thompson is not as good as far as a 100% recovery but this guy was a starter before not a role player and he is a senior. I think that means alot in an inexperienced and down ACC. Also Eddie might be ready to usurp Thompson anyway as he has more talent and height. I agree on Raines though. They need a serviceable big guy and he is a big question mark. But again he is a big question mark so that is a at least a good starting point.

CDu
10-28-2011, 09:06 AM
The coaches had said that Chaney was a starter last year before he collapsed. And that was before Hudson and Thompson got hurt. The coaches were really high on him. So the Hokies basically lost 3 starters last year. No other team in the ACC could have lost 3 staters and not had a dissappointing season.

I didn't say that last season's results weren't understandable. Clearly injuries decimated the Hokies last year. My point was that I don't think Hudson, Thompson, and the freshmen (plus more experience) make up for the losses of Allen and (especially) Delaney. As such, I don't think they'll be anything more than mediocre again this year.

Of course, it might be that mediocre is good enough for 3rd place this year. If I had to guess, I'd take Miami over Va Tech for that "honor".

Also, I think you may have misread ACCBBallFan's comment about "newcomers." I don't think he meant it as those guys starting over, but rather those guys are new additions relative to last year's team. In other words, I think it was meant as a positive (VT lost Delaney and Smith but added Hudson, Thompson, and the freshmen).

gumbomoop
10-28-2011, 09:49 AM
.... 3rd place this year. If I had to guess, I'd take Miami over Va Tech for that "honor".

Without looking at the unbalanced-schedule-mess and its attendant advantages for some teams and disadvantages for others, I'd say

1. UNC
1a. Duke
3. FSU
4. Miami
5. UVa
6. VT, NCSt, Clemson - tbd, maybe by unbalanced mess

roywhite
10-28-2011, 10:06 AM
Without looking at the unbalanced-schedule-mess and its attendant advantages for some teams and disadvantages for others, I'd say

1. UNC
1a. Duke
3. FSU
4. Miami
5. UVa
6. VT, NCSt, Clemson - tbd, maybe by unbalanced mess

So you see Duke as being very close to UNC in potential?
You appear to be more optimistic than the consensus media take on the conference race, but you certainly could be right.

In a head-to-head matchup, I like Duke's multiple outside shooters versus a somewhat suspect UNC perimeter defense.
My main concerns are about defending Henson and Barnes.

Olympic Fan
10-28-2011, 10:38 AM
I'm glad that you are optimistic about Duke's chances vis a vis UNC ... and I agree that there is some reason for optimism. Certainly if UNC loses its point guard after eight games as Duke did a year ago, then I think you would see UNC fall a lot farther than the '11 Devils did. A lot of factors could push Duke closer to -- or beyond -- UNC. Several could knock the Devils back.

The thing that has surprised me are the number of posters who don't give FSU the respect I believe they deserve. To me, they are CLEARCUT No. 3 and in fact could be closer to Duke at No. 2 than to whoever you like at No. 4 (the ACC media picked Virginia ... I like Miami ... but I can see the case for Va Tech).

You've got to give Hamilton credit for what he's achieved. The last three years, they've won 10-10-11 ACC games. They've finished in order fourth (one game behind the two teams that tied for second), tied for third and outright third. Yes, Singleton was a big loss, but they lost him late last year and still reached the Sweet 16 with very minimal contributions from their injured star. They have nine players returning who played 15-plus minutes a year ago. Ian Miller, who was hurt all last year, is reportedly healthy. They have more quality big men than Duke or Carolina. They're adding a veteran point guard who started at Arkansas a year ago. Between a healthy Miller and the new guy, Peterson, they'll get better PG play than they did from Kitchen a year ago. Personally, I think Terry Whisnant could be the 2nd or 3rd highest scoring freshman in the league. They'll have five seniors and two juniors in their rotation.

And on top of that, they play great defense -- two years in a row they've led the nation in FG defense.

Give them their due ... the 'Noles are going to be tough.

gumbomoop
10-28-2011, 01:07 PM
So you see Duke as being very close to UNC in potential?
You appear to be more optimistic than the consensus media....

My main concerns are about defending Henson and Barnes.

I am a self-confessed loony optimist about Duke hoops. I have said before that I am always surprised when Duke loses a game. I understand perfectly well that Duke will not go undefeated - even with a healthy KI... though ... alas, never mind - but I am always surprised when Duke loses any particular game. I do share your view, roywhite, about defending Barnes, who, if his handle is improved, is a killer. Re Henson, my concern is more with guys being intimidated by his D-length. IMO, guys have to attack him directly, go right up and into him, not try to avoid and shoot over him.

Beyond that general optimism, however, I see Duke as potentially able to challenge UNC this year for 2 reasons: (1) Duke has a slightly easier unbalanced-mess. [See, for details, thread "ACC Schedule Released," posts #25 (mine) and #28 (ACCBBallFan's); and thread "2011-12 MBB Schedule Speculation," posts #83 (mine) and #86 (Olympic Fan's)]. (2) Although I fear that the UNC guys who beat Marquette last NCAAT may well be the guys who show up, consistently, this season, I am intrigued by the argument, based on facts, made by several posters that last season UNC rarely dominated, even after Drew departed, and that they barely won against some just-ok opponents. They lucked out in Miami, when KM foolishly left his feet, the defender had the pass but slipped, and HB nailed the winner. Their ACCT performance was pathetic. They piddled around against LIU, nearly boneheaded away the game v Wash, and made some foolish mistakes v UK. So, I would put UNC as preseason national #1, but they'll be tested 3-5 times on the road in the ACC. I'm expecting the ACC reg season winner to be determined in the third overtime in CIS on March 3. It may come down to James Michael McAdoo [the nation's best, though not flashiest, frosh] v MP3 [the one with attitude]. Or possibly P.J. Hairston and Jackson Simmons v MGb and Early AM. Piece of cake.


I share Olympic Fan's enthusiasm for FSU this season....


I'm glad that you are optimistic about Duke's chances vis a vis UNC ... and I agree that there is some reason for optimism. Certainly if UNC loses its point guard after eight games as Duke did a year ago, then I think you would see UNC fall a lot farther than the '11 Devils did. A lot of factors could push Duke closer to -- or beyond -- UNC. Several could knock the Devils back.

The thing that has surprised me are the number of posters who don't give FSU the respect I believe they deserve. To me, they are CLEARCUT No. 3 and in fact could be closer to Duke at No. 2....

And on top of that, they play great defense -- two years in a row they've led the nation in FG defense.

Give them their due ... the 'Noles are going to be tough.

.... and am definitely counting on the 'Noles to beat the Heels in Tallahassee. I've posted elsewhere that Duke is the only team that can challenge UNC for ACC #1, and FSU is the only team that can challenge Duke for #2. That means: while I am predicting Duke and UNC to battle to the last game for #1, I do concede that Duke could slip up [Oly Fan 's "Several factors could knock the Devils back"], and FSU could nip into the #2 spot.

I don't quite get the love for VT, but theirs is an interesting story [all those returnees], as is Miami's [great guard tandem plus Reggie's return-in-shape??, plus the emergence of Garrius Adams [small prediction, there], as is NCSt's. I'm counting on the 'Canes to beat the Heels in Miami.

Back to the central point [of virtually all posts, per Jderf's Law], Duke and Carolina, there is possibly something askew - loony, call it - with my optimism, given that I (a) admire HB's focus and relentlessness, (b) fear that he might have improved his handle, (c) think KM a brilliant passer, (d) think James Michael McAdoo will shine right away and be great if he stays a second year, (e) realize that Henson is a defensive stopper, (f) think Zeller is underrated, and (g) worry that PJH and/or Reggie B might actually be able to hit some 3s. Given all that talent, it will take a first-rate effort for Duke, FSU, Miami, UVa, VT, or NCSt to beat those guys on those respective "given nights."