Rivers Vs Curry. Why Rivers needs to RELAX

[u2umark]

Interesting article about Rivers.


http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/6728/austin-rivers-seth-curry-and-unforeseen-drama-at-dukes-midnight-madness

We've all heard the same story from a many quarters going into the season. I believe Duke's success will hinge largely on River's ability to play with a NATURAL flow. Right now, he is trying too hard to live up to the hype. Last season it was Barnes but Barnes issue was systemic and not individual. In this case, I believe Austin should learn about turning the motor on and off and that is something the coaching staff will have to work on. He and Curry will be my favorite players to watch. Let's go DUKE!

[Kedsy]

This is the third or fourth thread with a reference to this article (I'm not sure the link in this thread actually works, though).

[u2umark]

This is the third or fourth thread with a link to this article.

I apologize if this has already been discussed. If so, a moderator may move to the appropriate thread.

[roywhite]

Interesting article about Rivers.


http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/6728/austin-rivers-seth-curry-and-unforeseen-drama-at-dukes-midnight-madness

We've all heard the same story from a many quarters going into the season. I believe Duke's success will hinge largely on River's ability to play with a NATURAL flow. Right now, he is trying too hard to live up to the hype. Last season it was Barnes but Barnes issue was systemic and not individual. In this case, I believe Austin should learn about turning the motor on and off and that is something the coaching staff will have to work on. He and Curry will be my favorite players to watch. Let's go DUKE!

Ehhh....seems like a lot of drama to me.

Doesn't this fall under the normal category of....
a talented freshman who needs to adjust to the college game?

Even for top 5 recruits, we saw the range of this transition from Kyrie Irving's very quick adjustment to Harrison Barnes taking more than half a season to relax and play effectively within the team concept.

I'll trust Coach K to manage this process well.

[rhcpflea99]

Love Austin's competitiveness.

[Starter]

Ehhh....seems like a lot of drama to me.

Doesn't this fall under the normal category of....
a talented freshman who needs to adjust to the college game?

Even for top 5 recruits, we saw the range of this transition from Kyrie Irving's very quick adjustment to Harrison Barnes taking more than half a season to relax and play effectively within the team concept.

I'll trust Coach K to manage this process well.

I think I'm with you on this one, though I go back and forth a bit. Logically, Rivers is just going to adjust and everything's going to be cool, we've seen it a million times.

The thing is, though Ryan may be overdramatizing his relationship with his teammates, most notably Seth Curry, for the sake of his narrative, what if people legitimately don't like how Rivers carries himself? I mean, that's possible that Rivers got off on the wrong foot, and that sort of thing breeds discontent. In that respect, I agree with Ryan that it'll be more interesting than ever to watch players' body language in relation to each other. This team has enough "veterans" on it that you feel like it'll sort itself out, and Krzyzewski is surely aware of problems, if any. I feel like Rivers is a unique player for Duke to have in a lot of ways. And it's likely we'll never truly know the extent of it one way or another. But it's, at the absolute very least, something to consider when thinking about the dynamic of this year's team.

[Kedsy]

I think I'm with you on this one, though I go back and forth a bit. Logically, Rivers is just going to adjust and everything's going to be cool, we've seen it a million times.

The thing is, though Ryan may be overdramatizing his relationship with his teammates, most notably Seth Curry, for the sake of his narrative, what if people legitimately don't like how Rivers carries himself? I mean, that's possible that Rivers got off on the wrong foot, and that sort of thing breeds discontent. In that respect, I agree with Ryan that it'll be more interesting than ever to watch players' body language in relation to each other. This team has enough "veterans" on it that you feel like it'll sort itself out, and Krzyzewski is surely aware of problems, if any. I feel like Rivers is a unique player for Duke to have in a lot of ways. And it's likely we'll never truly know the extent of it one way or another. But it's, at the absolute very least, something to consider when thinking about the dynamic of this year's team.

I agree this is already overblown. I'm told most of the team wasn't crazy about Christian Laettner and the way he carried himself, but it didn't seem to hurt team chemistry, and we made four Final Fours and won two championships.

[Wander]

I agree this is already overblown. I'm told most of the team wasn't crazy about Christian Laettner and the way he carried himself, but it didn't seem to hurt team chemistry, and we made four Final Fours and won two championships.

On the other hand, Josh McRoberts.

Winning is usually the cure for any kind of chemistry problems. If we drop a handful of games against our tough nonconference schedule, maybe it becomes a concern. Maybe.

[Duvall]

I think I'm with you on this one, though I go back and forth a bit. Logically, Rivers is just going to adjust and everything's going to be cool, we've seen it a million times.

The thing is, though Ryan may be overdramatizing his relationship with his teammates, most notably Seth Curry, for the sake of his narrative, what if people legitimately don't like how Rivers carries himself?

Even if he did, trying to judge that from body language would still be a fool's errand.

Body language. God help us.

[Starter]

I agree this is already overblown. I'm told most of the team wasn't crazy about Christian Laettner and the way he carried himself, but it didn't seem to hurt team chemistry, and we made four Final Fours and won two championships.

Right, I was going to add but didn't... it's going to help if Rivers is indeed as good as advertised. Winning solves a lot of things.

[Starter]

Even if he did, trying to judge that from body language would still be a fool's errand.

Body language. God help us.

Yeah, but it goes farther than that. Even before the Shane Ryan articles, I'd heard grumblings that people on the team weren't crazy about Rivers, and I'd imagine other people have heard the same stuff. That could easily be overblown hearsay, but who knows? We'll find out. Or we won't. I just hope Rivers is as good as I think he's going to be, much less what he purportedly thinks.

[Kedsy]

On the other hand, Josh McRoberts.

McBob's attitude and his teammates' opinion of him had little if anything to do with Duke losing to LSU his freshman year and in my opinion was not the problem with the 2006-07 team. While I do think there's such a thing as bad team chemistry, I don't think the coaching staff would allow one cocky kid to cause that much damage at Duke.

[CDu]

McBob's attitude and his teammates' opinion of him had little if anything to do with Duke losing to LSU his freshman year and in my opinion was not the problem with the 2006-07 team. While I do think there's such a thing as bad team chemistry, I don't think the coaching staff would allow one cocky kid to cause that much damage at Duke.

Agreed. McRoberts has become a nice scapegoat (for some folks) for the 2007 team. The reality was that there were a ton of reasons why the 2007 team didn't have a better year, and McRoberts' attitude was very low on the list of reasons.

I'm also not too concerned that Rivers' attitude will destroy team chemistry this year. I'm cognizant of the possibility that it could affect his play (losing focus to complain about "no-calls", for example). But I think Coach K's had enough experience with egos to figure out how not to let chemistry be a problem.

[mcches]

I found the Shane Ryan article very interesting and perceptive. Sounds like the upperclassman were putting Rivers in his proper place. Though it is easy to blow off the whole body language thing, I do think it is very real. Rivers comes from a unique situation: 1) superstar (ballhog) on a mediocre team; 2) born into a wealthy family; 3) spent his entire life around and been influenced by NBA players. IMO, he acts like a pretty entitled kid who has gotten everything he ever wanted. That can be a difficult pattern to break unless you break him down. Sounds like he needs a healthy dose of humility, something Kyrie, Nolan and apparently Rasheed Sulaimon already have. The great thing about Duke and Coach k, that s--- won't fly here.

[OldPhiKap]

Laettner was not particularly well-loved by many on his team. But the dude could ball, and held himself to the same standard he dished out. You don't gotta like your teammates -- but you've gotta respect them.

I am sure that K thinks Austin is a good kid or he wouldn't be here. Austin is obviously very confident about his abilities, and the results in high school seem to validate that confidence. I am sure he will progress fine -- although it can be a bumpy adjustment, even for really really really talented players. He will find a way to mesh with the team. Besides, every scorer likes a good point guard. Much of this stuff is just wild conjecture.

And Nate Dogg ain't gonna let no one get out of line, anyway.

[Starter]

I found the Shane Ryan article very interesting and perceptive. Sounds like the upperclassman were putting Rivers in his proper place. Though it is easy to blow off the whole body language thing, I do think it is very real. Rivers comes from a unique situation: 1) superstar (ballhog) on a mediocre team; 2) born into a wealthy family; 3) spent his entire life around and been influenced by NBA players. IMO, he acts like a pretty entitled kid who has gotten everything he ever wanted. That can be a difficult pattern to break unless you break him down. Sounds like he needs a healthy dose of humility, something Kyrie, Nolan and apparently Rasheed Sulaimon already have. The great thing about Duke and Coach k, that s--- won't fly here.

Note: I don't think it's as dire as all this. And as not just a coach's son, but the son of one of the best coaches in basketball on any level, I think Rivers is at heart a character guy. I do think he's feeling his own game, and has the potential to rub people the wrong way, but there's no doubt he's going to be an asset in virtually every regard. I'd be far more willing to believe Rivers will grow on people than wear on them.

[Duvall]

I found the Shane Ryan article very interesting and perceptive. Sounds like the upperclassman were putting Rivers in his proper place. Though it is easy to blow off the whole body language thing, I do think it is very real. Rivers comes from a unique situation: 1) superstar (ballhog) on a mediocre team; 2) born into a wealthy family; 3) spent his entire life around and been influenced by NBA players. IMO, he acts like a pretty entitled kid who has gotten everything he ever wanted.

IMO, you are allowing half-baked media narratives and your own preconceptions to form premature judgments based on next to no actual information.

Well, maybe that's not an opinion.

[Class of '94]

Laettner was not particularly well-loved by many on his team. But the dude could ball, and held himself to the same standard he dished out. You don't gotta like your teammates -- but you've gotta respect them.

I am sure that K thinks Austin is a good kid or he wouldn't be here. Austin is obviously very confident about his abilities, and the results in high school seem to validate that confidence. I am sure he will progress fine -- although it can be a bumpy adjustment, even for really really really talented players. He will find a way to mesh with the team. Besides, every scorer likes a good point guard. Much of this stuff is just wild conjecture.

And Nate Dogg ain't gonna let no one get out of line, anyway.

I wasn't going to say anything but since this article has come up multiple times in mulitple threads, I thought I'd chime in as well; and remind everyone that Bobby Hurley had a similar problem with poor body language as well "perceived pouting" his freshman year. I would suspect that Bobby's attitude on the court might have contributed to Christian's focus on picking on Hurley the most. Coach K sat down with Bobby and showed him a tape that was specifically made to show Hurley his poor body language when things didn't go his way; that session made a really good impression on Hurley and he worked on improving that aspect of his game. Yet, with all the issues with Christian and Bobby, those teams still had good chemistry, won a lot of games and two National championships. If Austin does have any issues with attitude or body language, K and the other coaches will help Austin overcome any issues; and the team will be fine.

[dukeballboy88]

Rivers is the best guard in the country and Seth is right there. Id call it 1A and 1B.

[weezie]

I don't want to start fretting this early. I have too much else to worry about.

[uh_no]

Rivers is the best guard in the country

There are quite a few athletes who would debate that point...and its quite a statement to make before the kid has even played a college game. I hope he turns out that way, but please don't make outlandish superlative statements based on hype alone. (ask king barnes how that worked out for him)

[airowe]

Rivers is the best guard in the country and Seth is right there. Id call it 1A and 1B.

I'd put Seth ahead of Rivers at this point. But I don't think either are best in the country.

[UNCleRod]

Rivers is the best guard in the country and Seth is right there. Id call it 1A and 1B.

somebody was up early this morning and had a big glass of koolaid and I think I know what color is was

[dukeballboy88]

ok then best guard in the acc?

[uh_no]

ok then best guard in the acc?

I don't think the issue is whether he is or isn't; just that there is no reasonable basis on which to base these conclusions.

I think there is a guy over at UNC who may have a thing or two to say about being the best in the conference.

Let the kid play a game or two against some top competition, either out in Maui or up in NYC before we start crowning him.

[Kfanarmy]

Agreed. McRoberts has become a nice scapegoat (for some folks) for the 2007 team. The reality was that there were a ton of reasons why the 2007 team didn't have a better year, and McRoberts' attitude was very low on the list of reasons..... I'm not so sure...I thought quite often that McRoberts wasn't putting everything into his performance on a lot of nights. Quite often he just seemed to be going through the motions, I'm guessing if I were on the team with him, I would have seriously questioned his commitment. Those things can snowball and cause a team to vastly underperform...and I think that team did.

[CDu]

I'm not so sure...I thought quite often that McRoberts wasn't putting everything into his performance on a lot of nights. Quite often he just seemed to be going through the motions, I'm guessing if I were on the team with him, I would have seriously questioned his commitment. Those things can snowball and cause a team to vastly underperform...and I think that team did.

I disagree. I don't think McRoberts gave less than full effort. I think people (erroneously) saw that because McRoberts couldn't score 18ppg on the blocks (something that has never been his game) and his surly demeanor and assumed that he wasn't giving full effort. In fact, I think he was doing everything he could, but was simply being asked to do something he wasn't equipped to do well. And even so, he still averaged about 8 rebounds and 2.5 blocks per game without much help.

I also think there were a lot of other issues (inadequate defense at some other key spots, a TON of inexperience, a lack of help inside, not enough competent/confident ballhandlers, not enough perimeter shooting, etc).

[airowe]

I disagree. I don't think McRoberts gave less than full effort. I think people (erroneously) saw that because McRoberts couldn't score 18ppg on the blocks (something that has never been his game) and his surly demeanor and assumed that he wasn't giving full effort.

Lots of effort with McRoberts. I think his attitude as his Duke career went on can fairly be criticized, but he gave a ton of effort, especially on defense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOuzofoWwzA

[magjayran]

We often forget about how good McRoberts was. I'd gladly redshirt a Plumlee for a McRoberts this year.

[Wander]

McBob's attitude and his teammates' opinion of him had little if anything to do with Duke losing to LSU his freshman year and in my opinion was not the problem with the 2006-07 team. While I do think there's such a thing as bad team chemistry, I don't think the coaching staff would allow one cocky kid to cause that much damage at Duke.


Agreed. McRoberts has become a nice scapegoat (for some folks) for the 2007 team. The reality was that there were a ton of reasons why the 2007 team didn't have a better year, and McRoberts' attitude was very low on the list of reasons.

To be clear, I'm not a Duke fan who hates McRoberts, and like airowe, I'd draw a distinction between his on-court effort (which was good) and his attitude. Team chemistry wasn't good, and seeing as Duke lost nearly every close game it played in once the ACC season started, I don't think it's unreasonable to assert that bad chemistry was a factor. As a specific example, recall the Clemson home game - Duke was up by 3 with the ball with a few seconds left, and an awful miscommunication between McRoberts and Paulus caused the basketball to end up in probably the only spot in the entire arena that it shouldn't have been, and the Clemson player drained a three to tie the game (yes, I know we ended up winning this particular game anyway). If we agree that team chemistry can be a positive factor that helps wins games (like the 2010 Duke and Butler squads), I think we necessarily have to agree that poor team chemistry can hurt.

I agree that the Rivers thing seems overblown right now. I'm not worried about it. But I don't agree that with the theory that bad chemistry wouldn't hurt a Duke team.

[Duvall]

To be clear, I'm not a Duke fan who hates McRoberts, and like airowe, I'd draw a distinction between his on-court effort (which was good) and his attitude. Team chemistry wasn't good, and seeing as Duke lost nearly every close game it played in once the ACC season started, I don't think it's unreasonable to assert that bad chemistry was a factor. As a specific example, recall the Clemson home game - Duke was up by 3 with the ball with a few seconds left, and an awful miscommunication between McRoberts and Paulus caused the basketball to end up in probably the only spot in the entire arena that it shouldn't have been, and the Clemson player drained a three to tie the game (yes, I know we ended up winning this particular game anyway). If we agree that team chemistry can be a positive factor that helps wins games (like the 2010 Duke and Butler squads), I think we necessarily have to agree that poor team chemistry can hurt.

I think we also have to agree that it's difficult for outside observers to tell the difference between poor chemistry and a lack of experience. That 2007 teams was one of the youngest Duke teams in recent memory; the 2010 squad was one of the most experienced. That may well have been the difference right there.

[Kedsy]

To be clear, I'm not a Duke fan who hates McRoberts, and like airowe, I'd draw a distinction between his on-court effort (which was good) and his attitude. Team chemistry wasn't good, and seeing as Duke lost nearly every close game it played in once the ACC season started, I don't think it's unreasonable to assert that bad chemistry was a factor. As a specific example, recall the Clemson home game - Duke was up by 3 with the ball with a few seconds left, and an awful miscommunication between McRoberts and Paulus caused the basketball to end up in probably the only spot in the entire arena that it shouldn't have been, and the Clemson player drained a three to tie the game (yes, I know we ended up winning this particular game anyway). If we agree that team chemistry can be a positive factor that helps wins games (like the 2010 Duke and Butler squads), I think we necessarily have to agree that poor team chemistry can hurt.

Not sure why an on-court miscommunication would be an indicator of poor chemistry or bad attitude. Nor would I think close losses would show a lack of chemstry any more (or less) than blowout losses, or even close wins against inferior opponents. But I agree with Duvall that both miscommunication and close losses are marks of an inexperienced team -- and that team was the least experienced Duke team in Coach K's tenure.

[Wander]

Not sure why an on-court miscommunication would be an indicator of poor chemistry or bad attitude. Nor would I think close losses would show a lack of chemstry any more (or less) than blowout losses, or even close wins against inferior opponents. But I agree with Duvall that both miscommunication and close losses are marks of an inexperienced team -- and that team was the least experienced Duke team in Coach K's tenure.

Well, at some point, the chemistry has to manifest itself as something specific on the basketball court, and communication issues seem like a reasonable place to start. Again, contrast that to the way Scheyer, Singler, Smith, Thomas, and Zoubek played with each other. I agree it's hard to separate out chemistry from experience (doubly so for that example). In summary, I suppose I'd posit that both inexperience and attitude problems contributed to bad team chemistry in 2007.

[dcar1985]

Not sure why an on-court miscommunication would be an indicator of poor chemistry or bad attitude. Nor would I think close losses would show a lack of chemstry any more (or less) than blowout losses, or even close wins against inferior opponents. But I agree with Duvall that both miscommunication and close losses are marks of an inexperienced team -- and that team was the least experienced Duke team in Coach K's tenure.

That might not have been the issue in that example but on court communication is definitely affected by poor chemistry. If your not on the same page as your teammates how can you expect to perform up to potential as a team?

[Kedsy]

That might not have been the issue in that example but on court communication is definitely affected by poor chemistry. If your not on the same page as your teammates how can you expect to perform up to potential as a team?

In general, that's a valid point, but I think it depends on what you mean by "poor chemistry." If we agree that a lot of the players on that team didn't like McRoberts and that his attitude wasn't ideal, but we also agree he was a good player who always listened to his coaches and tried his hardest on the court, then it's more difficult to see how his attitude and players disliking him would lead to a turnover.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that particular team had a lot of issues that led to a down season by Duke standards. McBob's attitude may or may not have been one of the issues, but if it was, it wasn't very high on the list.

[Bojangles4Eva]

McRoberts gets a lot of undeserved blame for that '07 squad, when really we just were not an outstanding team. Plus, the great performances from McRoberts and Paulus their freshman seasons were not put in perspective with who they were surrounded by.

Think of what it must have been like for McRoberts to play on a team with senior all Americans JJ and Shelden his freshman year. He could play his game under that nice guaranteed 40+ point umbrella of our two senior captains (taking lots of defensive pressure off of him), and then be asked the very next year to be the team leader (Paulus and him were co-captains as sophomores weren't they?) on a team which may start 2-3freshman. It wasn't surprising to me at all that McRoberts did not build on his freshman year as some may have hoped. It also wasn't surprising that this lead to frustration on his part at times (The clip of him screaming into a towel and Collins getting in his face comes to mind) which made him become slightly demonized in the eyes of the media.

I think this impression of him made it very easy to say that we didn't do well that year because of McRoberts attitude, and how it effected team chemistry, etc, when in reality, we were just a VERY inexperienced team with no real leadership which lead to loss in confidence (particularly in Paulus) and eventually many lost games.

Now, when it comes to Austin....He's just a freshman, and K hasn't gotten 900 wins because he allows the immaturity of 18 year olds corrupt his teams. Austin, like so many Duke freshman before him, will need to mature over the next season, and there may not be a better coach to get boys to act like men than K.

[jimsumner]

RE: 2007 season.

That team had no recruited seniors and only one recruited junior, DeMarcus Nelson. Nelson was a pretty good player, a great teammate, a hard worker. But leadership didn't come naturally to him. So, there was a leadership vacuum that none of the sophomores was prepared to fill.

Nelson, btw, learned and was a decent leader in 2008. But 2007 would have benefitted from a savy senior or two.

[Kedsy]

It wasn't surprising to me at all that McRoberts did not build on his freshman year as some may have hoped.

I agree with most of your post, but I think McRoberts did build on his freshman year. Here's his stat progression, from his freshman to his sophomore year:

MinutesPG: 24.5 to 35.3
PointsPG: 8.7 to 13.0
ReboundsPG: 5.3 to 7.9
AssistsPG: 1.5 to 3.5
BlocksPG: 1.3 to 2.5

On a per minute basis, his advancements in points and rebounds were only modest, but the fact that he advanced at all while becoming the absolute focus of opposing defenses says something, and his per minute advancements in assists and blocks were outstanding. Overall, I think our perception of Josh's on-court performance is marred by the fact that he left for the NBA after his sophomore campaign.

[MChambers]

Do we need yet another thread in which we gnash teeth over McRoberts? Can we get this thread back on the subject of this year's team?

[dukeballboy88]

People say Austin isnt the best guard in the country??? Ok, so find me a guard right now in college that would go higher than Austin in the NBA draft if the draft was tomorrow???


http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2012/

I dont know who writes for Draftexpress but I think me and him agree on Austin. It would take a sub par season from Austin and 35 ppg 15 assist and 10 boards a game season from another guard to get him drafted higher than Austin.

Seth impressed the heck out of me the other night, I saw an offensive game I didnt know he had. It kind of reminded me of the way the Microwave used to come in and light it up with about 5 different ways to put it in the basket. Im very impressed with Seth but there is not an NBA scout in the country that would take another guard over Austin Rivers right now.

[CDu]

People say Austin isnt the best guard in the country??? Ok, so find me a guard right now in college that would go higher than Austin in the NBA draft if the draft was tomorrow???


http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2012/

I dont know who writes for Draftexpress but I think me and him agree on Austin. It would take a sub par season from Austin and 35 ppg 15 assist and 10 boards a game season from another guard to get him drafted higher than Austin.

Seth impressed the heck out of me the other night, I saw an offensive game I didnt know he had. It kind of reminded me of the way the Microwave used to come in and light it up with about 5 different ways to put it in the basket. Im very impressed with Seth but there is not an NBA scout in the country that would take another guard over Austin Rivers right now.

The NBA drafts largely on potential rather than actual college performance. So your use of his pre-season draft stock is a faulty reference point for this discussion. Rivers' draft stock is based on what people think he'll be able to do in the NBA over the next decade or more - not what he can do right now in college basketball.

For example, Nolan Smith was the ACC player of the year and a 1st Team All-American. He was, without question, one of the 2-3 best guards in college basketball last year. He barely went in the 1st round. Jon Scheyer was 1st Team All-ACC (easily could have been ACC Player of the Year) and a 2nd Team All-American in 2010. He was easily one of the 5 best guards in the country, but wasn't drafted.

I don't think many would argue that Rivers isn't the best NBA guard prospect in the country - at the moment. That's a largely separate issue from who is the best college guard in the country. And frankly, I think it's a less important argument with regard to Duke basketball.

[dukeballboy88]

I was just repsonding to some post that responded to mine.

I dont think using the China games is a good source of determining a players attitude because of the way the games were called. The difference in the fouls was the worst I had ever seen. There were more players than Rivers looking at the refs with both hands up. K even had to flip on the refs so I cant say I saw anything I didnt like attitude wise on the China trip.

It seems like to me that everyone has pegged Rivers as a pre madonna with a bad attitude and its affected peoples opinion of him. The world outside of Durham wants him to fail because he has a little pep in his step and because he can play. The dude is a difference maker and we got him. I think he will only make Duke better because he is who he is. A kid like Austin would only make me better because Id want to get to his level.

[JG Nothing]

It seems like to me that everyone has pegged Rivers as a pre madonna with a bad attitude and its affected peoples opinion of him.

Rivers was born in 1992. It would be impossible for him to be pre madonna. ;)

[OldPhiKap]

Rivers was born in 1992. It would be impossible for him to be pre madonna. ;)

pre gaga, post cher

[ricks68]

Now, if he was actually "prima"------Donna, then Carl Betz would have been married to him in secret before the TV show aired. But, again, he was born way too late for that to have happened.;)

ricks

[OldPhiKap]

Now, if he was actually "prima"------Donna, then Carl Betz would have been married to him in secret before the TV show aired. But, again, he was born way too late for that to have happened.;)

ricks

Louis Prima is a very underappreciated talent with the kids today. Guy could swing like none other.

Worth checking out.

Oh, and Austin will jump, jive and wail on the defenses this year. Brass tack solid lock.

[dukeballboy88]

LOL

Sometimes I type so fast I dont even know what I type. Plus my 1 year old has ripped all my keys off my laptop so it takes my a long type to hit send. It was early and I was in a hurry trying to get it typed before I went to church.

So does anyone think that our players and fans may have formulated an opinion of Austin before they got to know him?

[TonyWR]

LOL

Sometimes I type so fast I dont even know what I type. Plus my 1 year old has ripped all my keys off my laptop so it takes my a long type to hit send. It was early and I was in a hurry trying to get it typed before I went to church.

So does anyone think that our players and fans may have formulated an opinion of Austin before they got to know him?

Regardless of others' opinion of him, he'll make them all believers soon enough. There's a reason he's the #1 player in the country and he can back it up.He's going to be a game changer, ala Jay Williams.

[CDu]

So does anyone think that our players and fans may have formulated an opinion of Austin before they got to know him?

I doubt the players did. I'm quite sure the fans have. Because, quite frankly, most fans don't ever get to know any of the players yet still have opinions of them. I'm not going to get to know Rivers a whole lot better between now and when he goes pro.

[dukeballboy88]

You can get to know someone without ever talking to them when their life is as open as his.

Does anyone actually know if the team gets along off the court?

[OldPhiKap]

You can get to know someone without ever talking to them when their life is as open as his.

Does anyone actually know if the team gets along off the court?

No reason to think they don't.

Kyrie stated often that he wanted to play with Austin, so I don't see why this is an issue.

We play some great pre-season games overseas, they all get to take a trip around the world together -- and folks are trying to sew seeds of discontent?

Not calling you out on it -- there have been several posts by others along this line -- but unless someone has a FACT to throw on the table it should be a dead issue.

[CDu]

You can get to know someone without ever talking to them when their life is as open as his.

His life isn't that open. His basketball story is fairly well known (for a freshman at least) and we obviously know who his father is. But I think you're failing to realize how little we know of these guys at a personal level (which is as it should be). This holds true for Rivers, too, even if he does have a famous dad.


Does anyone actually know if the team gets along off the court?

I'm sure the team gets along fine. Why would one assume otherwise? Because of some entertainment piece written by an author who seems to be reading more into an exhibition than is really there?

I thought that angle in the article was a reach for a storyline when it was written. I don't suspect that these guys have problems getting along. They seemed to be enjoying each others' company in the dunk contest at midnight madness.

I think the interesting part will be how well Rivers improves in his reactions to the refs and getting back on defense. He's consistently (in the scrimmage, the China/UAE trip, and the few high school games I've seen) shown a habit of reacting to no-calls. I'm optimistic that Coach K will get this taken care of. But it's something to watch - moreso than concerns about these guys getting along, in my opinion.

[gus]

Rivers was born in 1992. It would be impossible for him to be pre madonna. ;)

He was born after Duke's second title? Holy crap, that makes me feel old.

[CDu]

He was born after Duke's second title? Holy crap, that makes me feel old.

Yeah, this is true for most freshman. We're to the point now that it's borderline whether kids coming in really remember the 2001 title team.

[JG Nothing]

Yeah, this is true for most freshman. We're to the point now that it's borderline whether kids coming in really remember the 2001 title team.

Everyone who played for Duke in the 2001 title game eventually graduated with a Duke degree. What a great group of guys! I hope the same will be true for 2010 title team.

[rasputin]

Everyone who played for Duke in the 2001 title game eventually graduated with a Duke degree. What a great group of guys! I hope the same will be true for 2010 title team.

And the 2012 title team.:)

[sagegrouse]

Everyone who played for Duke in the 2001 title game eventually graduated with a Duke degree. What a great group of guys! I hope the same will be true for 2010 title team.

'Los seems to be missing a few credits. ;)

sage

[Duvall]

'Los seems to be missing a few credits. ;)

sage

Is he? I thought he and Dunleavy had both graduated.

[Newton_14]

'Los seems to be missing a few credits. ;)

sage


Is he? I thought he and Dunleavy had both graduated.

I believe Duvall is correct on this one. We covered this in another thread awhile back, and if memory serves, Boozer and Mike D both got their degree's.

[sagegrouse]

I believe Duvall is correct on this one. We covered this in another thread awhile back, and if memory serves, Boozer and Mike D both got their degree's.

Yep, we did, and no disrespect to the Booze, but here's DukeDevilDeb's view from a faculty perspective....

"Oh, for heaven's sake! Not BOOZER!"



Originally Posted by hood7I think Jason Williams deserves some credit for coming into Duke with a number of AP credits and the smarts/discipline to graduate in just 3 years. I think he was also his high school chess club's team captain...? Boozer also did the 3-year thing...no easy feat for guys with such major hoop-time commitment! Also, Johnny Dawkins deserves to be on this list for making the genius move of committing to Duke to play for an then-unproven coach and launching what has been a pretty decent 30-year run for us. Maybe it wasn't book-smarts, but he saw something in K and was smart enough to go with it.

"Please check your facts before you post something like this. Jason was an excellent student and did graduate in three years and several summers. I had him in class, and I was amazed at and impressed with his ability to carry an extremely difficult class load and play All American basketball at the same time.

"But Boozer? No way. Boozer left after 3 years without being close to graduating and, from inside sources, has no intent whatsoever to come back and complete his degree.

"Just because JWill and Boozer left at the same time doesn't mean both graduated. Boozer did not."

sagegrouse

[JG Nothing]

Yep, we did, and no disrespect to the Booze, but here's DukeDevilDeb's view from a faculty perspective....

"Oh, for heaven's sake! Not BOOZER!"




"Please check your facts before you post something like this. Jason was an excellent student and did graduate in three years and several summers. I had him in class, and I was amazed at and impressed with his ability to carry an extremely difficult class load and play All American basketball at the same time.

"But Boozer? No way. Boozer left after 3 years without being close to graduating and, from inside sources, has no intent whatsoever to come back and complete his degree.

"Just because JWill and Boozer left at the same time doesn't mean both graduated. Boozer did not."

sagegrouse

I was wrong. Apparently, Boozer did not finish.
http://about.duke.edu/distinguished-alumni#athletics
I knew Dunleavy had returned to school over a few summers to finish and Williams obviously did it in three years. I correctly remember Boozer saying he was on track for a three year degree and thought he finished.
http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/071201aaa.html
Sorry. :o

[Newton_14]

Yep, we did, and no disrespect to the Booze, but here's DukeDevilDeb's view from a faculty perspective....

"Oh, for heaven's sake! Not BOOZER!"




"Please check your facts before you post something like this. Jason was an excellent student and did graduate in three years and several summers. I had him in class, and I was amazed at and impressed with his ability to carry an extremely difficult class load and play All American basketball at the same time.

"But Boozer? No way. Boozer left after 3 years without being close to graduating and, from inside sources, has no intent whatsoever to come back and complete his degree.

"Just because JWill and Boozer left at the same time doesn't mean both graduated. Boozer did not."

sagegrouse

Thanks Sage. Can't argue with facts. My memory failed me on that one. All this time I believed Boozer did the 3 yr deal and finished just like Jason. Sorry to learn he didn't...

[Saratoga2]

I have been overseas for a month so haven't commented lately. I think that both Austin and Quinn suffered diffulty in accepting that other AAU level players could compete with them and perhaps limit them. I saw it in facial expressions and other body language. Perhaps they lose faith in themselves when things don't go swimmingly. Playing at the ACC kevek, they will find competitive situations every night so they need to mature as players and accept their limitations and generate positive energy to improve. Other Duke players can help them develop the positive attitudes they will need to be successful, Both already have the physical abilities and skill sets to be excellent college level players. Sorry if this adds a new element to the conversation, but I think Quinn and Austin are more tied together than Quinn and Seth.