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superdave
10-17-2011, 11:48 AM
1st Team: (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/15749934/new-feature-1) Jordan Taylor, John Jenkins, Barnes, Sullinger, Thomas Robinson

Seems reasonable to me although some of those guys I dont really know much about. But I have to disagree with Kendall Marshal on the 2nd team and Austin Rivers on the 3rd team. Marshall will be a really good point guard for UNC, but he's unlikely to shoot much or score much. He may average more assists per game than points, and Nolan showed everyone the blueprint for shutting Marshall down. If Barnes' slow start last year coupled with Rivers' un-even performances in China are any indication of how Rivers' plays this season, then it's not a great idea to put freshmen on your all-american teams. Granted there's always a Carmelo or Durant lurking, but I'd be surprised if Austin is that good right away.

Finally, two nits: John Henson is not UNC's center, Tyler Zeller is. UNC did not win the ACC last year, Duke did by beating UNC 75 to 58 in the ACC tournament finals, thanks.

jimsumner
10-17-2011, 11:58 AM
1st Team: (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/15749934/new-feature-1) Jordan Taylor, John Jenkins, Barnes, Sullinger, Thomas Robinson

Seems reasonable to me although some of those guys I dont really know much about. But I have to disagree with Kendall Marshal on the 2nd team and Austin Rivers on the 3rd team. Marshall will be a really good point guard for UNC, but he's unlikely to shoot much or score much. He may average more assists per game than points, and Nolan showed everyone the blueprint for shutting Marshall down. If Barnes' slow start last year coupled with Rivers' un-even performances in China are any indication of how Rivers' plays this season, then it's not a great idea to put freshmen on your all-american teams. Granted there's always a Carmelo or Durant lurking, but I'd be surprised if Austin is that good right away.

Finally, two nits: John Henson is not UNC's center, Tyler Zeller is. UNC did not win the ACC last year, Duke did by beating UNC 75 to 58 in the ACC tournament finals, thanks.

The ACC acknowledges the regular-season title as equal to the ACC Tournament title. The winner of the latter gets the league's automatic bid to the NCAA Tournament. The cited article would have benefited from some clarity.

I find Thomas Robinson an interesting choice. Lots of potential but he certainly hasn't produced at an AA level so far. Mason Plumlee would make just as much sense.

superdave
10-17-2011, 12:09 PM
The ACC acknowledges the regular-season title as equal to the ACC Tournament title. The winner of the latter gets the league's automatic bid to the NCAA Tournament. The cited article would have benefited from some clarity.

I find Thomas Robinson an interesting choice. Lots of potential but he certainly hasn't produced at an AA level so far. Mason Plumlee would make just as much sense.

By comparison, Thomas Robinson was ranked #28 in the class of 2010 RSCI final rankings. Mason was #18 and Ryan was #14. Robinson averaged 7.6 points and 6.4 boards in 14.6 minutes last year (Mason was 7 points, 8 boards; Ryan was 8 points, almost 4 boards). A bit of a stretch for 1st team all-america. I'd have bumped John Henson and his inevitable 14-12-4 averages up to 1st team (unfortunately).

Bluedog
10-17-2011, 12:10 PM
The ACC acknowledges the regular-season title as equal to the ACC Tournament title.

Is that true Jim? I had thought that the ACC tournament winner was the "official" conference champion while the regular season champion can be acknowledged as long as "regular season" is indicated. Here is what I see on the ACC site:

http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/022499aac.html


[On] July, 1, 1961 ... the words "and the winner [of the tournament] shall be the conference champion" were added to the ACC bylaws.

So, unless I'm mistaken the official ACC Champion is the tournament champion while the ACC regular season champion can certainly say they are "regular season" champs with a banner/trophy (as Duke does). But certainly Jim knows more than me so I'll defer to his judgment.

jimsumner
10-17-2011, 12:21 PM
The ACC has acknowedged a split between the regular-season title and the tournament title since 1990. Inasmuch as the winner of the tournament gets the automatic NCAA bid, I suppose we could call that the tie-breaker. The best idea, IMO, is for writers to be specific and precise.

FWIW, I always agreed with Dean Smith, that finishing first in the regular season trumps winning a weekend tournament. But the advent of the unbalanced schedule has placed that certitude in doubt.

Wander
10-17-2011, 01:35 PM
I agree Thomas Robinson is a weird choice. Perry Jones of Baylor has been a better college player and is projected higher in the draft, so I'd have him there instead. In fact, he kind of strikes me as one of three guys that are the super obvious choices here, in addition to Sullinger and Barnes.

The guards in college basketball look to be kind of blah this year. I wouldn't be surprised if we looked back at the end of the season and decided that both the best point guard and best shooting guard resided on Tobacco Road.

Olympic Fan
10-17-2011, 02:11 PM
The ACC acknowledges the regular-season title as equal to the ACC Tournament title. The winner of the latter gets the league's automatic bid to the NCAA Tournament. The cited article would have benefited from some clarity.



Jim,

I hate to disagree with you, but you are dead wrong about the ACC tournament and regular season championships being equal.

On July 1, 1961 the conference changed its by-laws to make the ACC Tournament champion the official ACC champion. See page 23 of the 2011 ACC Baskeball Guide for confirmation. The vote was merely confirming what had been unofficial practice in the first seven years of the conference (and throughout the history of the Souhern Conference before that).

For almost 40 years, the regular season winner was in limbo. The ACC would not recognize a "regular season champion". But in 1990 when Clemson finished first in the standings, the coaches unanimously petitioned the ACC to recognize the regular season championship -- it was kind of a gift to Cliff Ellis. The conference responded by deciding that the team that finished first in the regular season would be acknowledged as the regular season champion -- but emphaszied that the tournament winner was still the official champion.

So it is correct to say UNC was the 2011 ACC Regular Season Champion. You can also say that Duke was the 2011 ACC Tournament Champion.

But if you're going to say 2011 ACC Champion, that's ONLY Duke -- by ACC by-law, the tournament champion is THE champion.

PS I just read your response to bluegog's post correcting you. I think you miss the point ... not that the automatic bid is the "tiebreaker", but that the conference by-laws officially designate the tourney winner as THE Champion.

loldevilz
10-17-2011, 02:14 PM
I agree Thomas Robinson is a weird choice. Perry Jones of Baylor has been a better college player and is projected higher in the draft, so I'd have him there instead. In fact, he kind of strikes me as one of three guys that are the super obvious choices here, in addition to Sullinger and Barnes.

The guards in college basketball look to be kind of blah this year. I wouldn't be surprised if we looked back at the end of the season and decided that both the best point guard and best shooting guard resided on Tobacco Road.

Perry Jones hasn't really shown much. He is just really toolsy so he'll go high in the draft. Terrence Jones to me is the obvious choice. The rest I basically agree with.

Personally I would put Jeremy Lamb over Jenkins. He broke out in the NCAA tournament last year and had a great summer. He will put up tons of points.

Also, I could see any one of UNC's frontcourt as first team. I might even give the nod to Henson just because he is such a good defender.

superdave
10-17-2011, 02:21 PM
Perry Jones hasn't really shown much. He is just really toolsy so he'll go high in the draft. Terrence Jones to me is the obvious choice. The rest I basically agree with.

Personally I would put Jeremy Lamb over Jenkins. He broke out in the NCAA tournament last year and had a great summer. He will put up tons of points.

Also, I could see any one of UNC's frontcourt as first team. I might even give the nod to Henson just because he is such a good defender.

UNC has a front line of 3 future NBA rotation guys. That is scary. The key to stopping them is slowing down Marshall.

I agree with you on Terrence Jones. If he improved at all, he should be in the conversation for 1st team.

NSDukeFan
10-17-2011, 03:50 PM
The ACC acknowledges the regular-season title as equal to the ACC Tournament title. The winner of the latter gets the league's automatic bid to the NCAA Tournament. The cited article would have benefited from some clarity.

I find Thomas Robinson an interesting choice. Lots of potential but he certainly hasn't produced at an AA level so far. Mason Plumlee would make just as much sense.

I agree that Robinson is an interesting choice. He certainly hasn't put up very big numbers so far, unless you look at his per minute numbers, which actually are at an AA level. He had two first round picks playing in front of him last year, so didn't play a ton, as Superdave mentioned. He had Zoubekesque (spell-check didn't think this was a word?) rebounding numbers - 18.8% Offensive rebounding % would have ranked 3rd in the country, 31.1% Defensive rebounding % would have ranked 2nd, behind only Kenneth Faried, who led in both categories. He also shot 60% from the field, though a Masonesque 50% from the line, which limits his offensive rating. With the Morrises gone this year, as well as Selby, Robinson is being looked at as one of Kansas' leaders this year, and apparently he also had a Horvathian summer at one of the big man camps (Amare's?).

He certainly hasn't played big minutes yet, so it will be interesting to see how he does this year and how far he can take Kansas. I could see him being an All-American candidate, but certainly wouldn't list him above Terrence Jones, or unfortunately some more proven players at UNC, at this point.