Kendall Marshall NBA Chances

[Kedsy]

Roy's recipe to date is very simple. His system requires an extremely fast and good north to south point guard. It's no coincidence UNC did a 180 when Marshall took over the point.

Well, except Marshall isn't extremely fast. He's good, but footspeed isn't his finest attribute.

[CDu]

Roy's recipe to date is very simple. His system requires an extremely fast and good north to south point guard. It's no coincidence UNC did a 180 when Marshall took over the point.

Marshall doesn't fit that description at all. He's in fact fairly slow for a PG. There is virtually no similarity between him and Felton/Lawson. As for Williams, he's had success in the past (at Kansas) without an explosive north-south PG. And now he's had some success without an explosive north-south PG in Marshall.

[roywhite]

Marshall doesn't fit that description at all. He's in fact fairly slow for a PG. There is virtually no similarity between him and Felton/Lawson. As for Williams, he's had success in the past (at Kansas) without an explosive north-south PG. And now he's had some success without an explosive north-south PG in Marshall.

Not to make too much of this point, but the ball gets upcourt in a hurry with Marshall.

He's certainly not the fastest, but he hustles and is not afraid to make long passes ahead.

Marshall's foot speed, or lack thereof, can be more of an issue on defense.
His vulnerability on defense can be disguised against many teams, but a team like, say.....Duke has such talent on the perimeter that he can be exploited thru attacking and wearing him down.

[DukeHoopsGuru]

Not to make too much of this point, but the ball gets upcourt in a hurry with Marshall.

He's certainly not the fastest, but he hustles and is not afraid to make long passes ahead.

Marshall's foot speed, or lack thereof, can be more of an issue on defense.
His vulnerability on defense can be disguised against many teams, but a team like, say.....Duke has such talent on the perimeter that he can be exploited thru attacking and wearing him down.

Exactly, north-south isn't all foot speed. The secondary break requires getting the ball up the floor in a hurry. Marshall isn't Felton nor Lawson, but he moves the ball extremely well.

[CDu]

Not to make too much of this point, but the ball gets upcourt in a hurry with Marshall.

He's certainly not the fastest, but he hustles and is not afraid to make long passes ahead.

Marshall's foot speed, or lack thereof, can be more of an issue on defense.
His vulnerability on defense can be disguised against many teams, but a team like, say.....Duke has such talent on the perimeter that he can be exploited thru attacking and wearing him down.

My main point of contention was with the statement "extremely fast." Marshall is, by no means, extremely fast. He's a very crafty player and terrific passer. But the formula with him at PG is very different from the formula with Lawson or Felton at PG. Just like the formula was different with Adonis Jordan at PG on two of Williams's Final Four teams at Kansas.

[MChambers]

There is a very good chance that Marshall is gone after this season. Credible people, including some scouts, are saying he's likely worked his way into the first round already.

Really? I thought he was one of those great four year college players. I can't really see him as much in the NBA. Not trying to knock him as a college player, but he's slow and not very physical for an NBA guard. I'm just remembering Nolan taking him completely out of the ACC finals by playing aggressive defense.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Really? I thought he was one of those great four year college players. I can't really see him as much in the NBA. Not trying to knock him as a college player, but he's slow and not very physical for an NBA guard. I'm just remembering Nolan taking him completely out of the ACC finals by playing aggressive defense.

That's what I'm hearing is possible.
I personally don't buy it, I think it's more likely after his Jr. year. But I can see the argument some are making that his stock could be really high after this season, and that since Henson, Barnes probably, while Zeller certainly goes, that he may too.

He struggled with Nolan in that game, Nolan played really well.
But NBA scouts like his leadership and overall game and they know he makes players around him better.

Here's one 2012 Mock draft (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kendall-Marshall-5095/)profile that has him as early second round now.

[Deathby3]

Really? I thought he was one of those great four year college players. I can't really see him as much in the NBA. Not trying to knock him as a college player, but he's slow and not very physical for an NBA guard. I'm just remembering Nolan taking him completely out of the ACC finals by playing aggressive defense.

KM was a freshman who was playing against the ACC POY, who is an experienced senior, and who was really on his game that day. The entire Duke team was on their game that day. Nolan's leadership and excellent play took UNC's most important player out of the game that day. KM probably learned a lot from that experience last year. Playing against Lawson and Felton all summer long has probably helped him prepare for this upcoming season. Sure, no one plays D in pickup games, but to completely dismiss the experience wouldn't be fair. In fact, KI played a ton in the Smith Center this year, so KM probably matched up against him as well. A year of experience, a year of physical growth, and a year of improvement can make a really good PG and great PG. His idol is Jason Kidd. They both have the same sort of skill-set, how did Kidd work out?

[Class of '94]

KM was a freshman who was playing against the ACC POY, who is an experienced senior, and who was really on his game that day. The entire Duke team was on their game that day. Nolan's leadership and excellent play took UNC's most important player out of the game that day. KM probably learned a lot from that experience last year. Playing against Lawson and Felton all summer long has probably helped him prepare for this upcoming season. Sure, no one plays D in pickup games, but to completely dismiss the experience wouldn't be fair. In fact, KI played a ton in the Smith Center this year, so KM probably matched up against him as well. A year of experience, a year of physical growth, and a year of improvement can make a really good PG and great PG. His idol is Jason Kidd. They both have the same sort of skill-set, how did Kidd work out?

But with all due respect, KM is no where near being what Jason Kidd was when he was in college. KM appears to be an excellent leader and a good passer; but Kidd was a bigger and much faster athlete on the court; and a much better defensive player thatn KM is now. I would even say Kidd was a better passer; he reminded me a lot of Magic in that regard. Kidd was drafted No 2 overall; and no offense, I don't see KM being top 2 draft pick in any draft.

[CDu]

But with all due respect, KM is no where near being what Jason Kidd was when he was in college. KM appears to be an excellent leader and a good passer; but Kidd was a bigger and much faster athlete on the court; and a much better defensive player thatn KM is now. I would even say Kidd was a better passer; he reminded me a lot of Magic in that regard. Kidd was drafted No 2 overall; and no offense, I don't see KM being top 2 draft pick in any draft.

Agreed. Marshall and Kidd have the same type of skillset in the sense that they are floor generals who pass first. But Kidd has a much better collection of those skills (much stronger ballhandler, MUCH better defender, better passer as well). Kidd was also a much more capable scorer than Marshall.

I'd be fairly surprised if Marshall is ever a first round pick, let alone after his sophomore year. That doesn't mean he wouldn't try to go of course (kids do dumb things).

[Deathby3]

Agreed. Marshall and Kidd have the same type of skillset in the sense that they are floor generals who pass first. But Kidd has a much better collection of those skills (much stronger ballhandler, MUCH better defender, better passer as well). Kidd was also a much more capable scorer than Marshall.

I'd be fairly surprised if Marshall is ever a first round pick, let alone after his sophomore year. That doesn't mean he wouldn't try to go of course (kids do dumb things).

His father is a member of the IC and he is a regular poster. He mentioned at the end of last season that he thought his son may try to make the leap to the NBA after his Jr season. At that point, KM will be much stronger and much more experienced. He may not be a clone of Kidd, but he is in the same mold. There is no reason he couldn't lead a team in the NBA. Because of his work ethic, he will improve. Once he develops his scoring ability, he will become a much more effective PG.

[MChambers]

His father is a member of the IC and he is a regular poster. He mentioned at the end of last season that he thought his son may try to make the leap to the NBA after his Jr season. At that point, KM will be much stronger and much more experienced. He may not be a clone of Kidd, but he is in the same mold. There is no reason he couldn't lead a team in the NBA. Because of his work ethic, he will improve. Once he develops his scoring ability, he will become a much more effective PG.

Seems to me that Marshall's weaknesses relate mostly to a lack of extreme athleticism, particularly a lack of speed and lateral quickness, and it's hard to improve those types of things. He could improve his shooting, of course.

I also think that Marshall has been touted as gifted player since he was quite young and that may influence his thinking and that of his father. That is, they may have an inflated view of his abilities.

[Deathby3]

Seems to me that Marshall's weaknesses relate mostly to a lack of extreme athleticism, particularly a lack of speed and lateral quickness, and it's hard to improve those types of things. He could improve his shooting, of course.

I also think that Marshall has been touted as gifted player since he was quite young and that may influence his thinking and that of his father. That is, they may have an inflated view of his abilities.

Or you could have a deflated view of his abilities because he wears a different shade of blue? :D

[nmduke2001]

Seems to me that Marshall's weaknesses relate mostly to a lack of extreme athleticism, particularly a lack of speed and lateral quickness, and it's hard to improve those types of things. He could improve his shooting, of course.

I also think that Marshall has been touted as gifted player since he was quite young and that may influence his thinking and that of his father. That is, they may have an inflated view of his abilities.

In my opinion, KM is more Steve Blake than Jason Kidd. Like Blake, KM can manage a game and not make mistakes but he isn't going to blow you away with his ability.

Kidd, in the other hand, was really athletic in his early days and remains incredibly strong. Kidd is one of the better rebounding PGs ever. It's amazing to see Kidd gather a contested defensive rebound and lead the fast break.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Seems to me that Marshall's weaknesses relate mostly to a lack of extreme athleticism, particularly a lack of speed and lateral quickness, and it's hard to improve those types of things. He could improve his shooting, of course.

I also think that Marshall has been touted as gifted player since he was quite young and that may influence his thinking and that of his father. That is, they may have an inflated view of his abilities.

Keep in mind that athleticism is great and all, but it's way over-rated in a five man game. Players that are smart and crafty can give up some physical advantages and still be very successful.

To back up this point, take a look at the '86 Celtics line up. A great team and NBA champions.

D. Ainge
D. Johnson
Bird
K. McHale
R. Parrish

I'd argue that their entire starting line up lacked "athleticism", by run, jump, quickness definition, and they beat some extremely athletic teams.

[MChambers]

Or you could have a deflated view of his abilities because he wears a different shade of blue? :D
But I wouldn't have said the same thing about Felton or Lawson, so I don't think that's what it is. I just don't think he's quick enough to be effective in the NBA.

[Faison1]

Keep in mind that athleticism is great and all, but it's way over-rated in a five man game. Players that are smart and crafty can give up some physical advantages and still be very successful.

To back up this point, take a look at the '86 Celtics line up. A great team and NBA champions.

D. Ainge
D. Johnson
Bird
K. McHale
R. Parrish

I'd argue that their entire starting line up lacked "athleticism", by run, jump, quickness definition, and they beat some extremely athletic teams.

The 2010 National Champion Duke Squad was not overwhelming in the athlectic department.....out side of Nolan, the rest of the team was pretty floor bound. And not fleet of foot.

Have we already compared Scheyer and KM? Who would you take?

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Have we already compared Scheyer and KM? Who would you take?

Loaded question, calculated to get me in the doghouse, well played.:)

If we are comparing freshman seasons, which is the only fair thing to do, I take Marshall without a doubt.

[Faison1]

If we are comparing freshman seasons, which is the only fair thing to do, I take Marshall without a doubt.

Interesting point. I forgot KM was only a freshman last year. I don't think I've ever agreed with you on anything, but I might on this. Hopefully KM does not progress as well as Jon did over his career.

[jimsumner]

My Carolina sources think that Marshall is more than willing to start taking NBA money sooner than later.

[dukeballboy88]

If I was KM, and I heard my name mentioned in the first round, id go. I read Phoenix is looking for a PG to take over for Steve Nash.....

No Im not sayiing KM is better than Nash but KM can definately quarterback a team.

[Billy Dat]

I know it's easy to pick apart a players' deficiencies, especially a Heel, but the Marshall criticisms seem like wishful thinking to me. The kid is clearly a really solid and effective point guard who changed the entire complexion of a team that nearly made the Final Four. I don't care if he can't score or lacks quickness or whatever. The team hums when he leads it, he is exactly the right PG for that team, and, I'd argue, the most important guy on their team this year because that ball is going to have to move and find the right hands at the right time in a delicate balance to ensure that everyone is happy with their roll, touches, exposure, you name it. He seems to have amazing natural feel for the game.

As for the Marshall/Scheyer comparisons, it's interesting because if you added them together, they'd be perfect...one is a natural PG who struggles with scoring, the other is a gifted scorer who was a PG by default whose primary value at that spot was taking care of the ball and not losing his offensive mindset while running the team. Jon, essentially, brought the ball up but it was in Nolan's hands quite a bit on the offensive end. The Heels are better when that ball is moving through Marshall again and again because of his vision and passing...and, as usual, they'd rather not set up in the half court at all if the break or secondary break yields easy baskets for their running bigs and wings.

[ChillinDuke]

Keep in mind that athleticism is great and all, but it's way over-rated in a five man game. Players that are smart and crafty can give up some physical advantages and still be very successful.

To back up this point, take a look at the '86 Celtics line up. A great team and NBA champions.

D. Ainge
D. Johnson
Bird
K. McHale
R. Parrish

I'd argue that their entire starting line up lacked "athleticism", by run, jump, quickness definition, and they beat some extremely athletic teams.

Agreed.

See also: San Antonio Spurs, 1999-2010.

[CDu]

If I was KM, and I heard my name mentioned in the first round, id go. I read Phoenix is looking for a PG to take over for Steve Nash.....

No Im not sayiing KM is better than Nash but KM can definately quarterback a team.

The Suns aren't actually looking for a PG to take over for Nash. They have the guy that they think is the answer in Goran Dragic. And I'd say it remains to be seen whether Marshall can successfully run the point for an NBA team.

[sagegrouse]

Keep in mind that athleticism is great and all, but it's way over-rated in a five man game. Players that are smart and crafty can give up some physical advantages and still be very successful.

To back up this point, take a look at the '86 Celtics line up. A great team and NBA champions.

D. Ainge
D. Johnson
Bird
K. McHale
R. Parrish

I'd argue that their entire starting line up lacked "athleticism", by run, jump, quickness definition, and they beat some extremely athletic teams.

When this issue was raised back in the day, the response among NBA players was, "Say whatever you like about athleticism, but Danny Ainge is one of the best athletes in the league."

sagegrouse

[SilkyJ]

Keep in mind that athleticism is great and all, but it's way over-rated in a five man game. Players that are smart and crafty can give up some physical advantages and still be very successful.

To back up this point, take a look at the '86 Celtics line up. A great team and NBA champions.

D. Ainge
D. Johnson
Bird
K. McHale
R. Parrish

I'd argue that their entire starting line up lacked "athleticism", by run, jump, quickness definition, and they beat some extremely athletic teams.

You had to go back to the 80s to lend credence to your statement though. These days, in the 1-on-1 NBA, it matters.

(FWIW, I'll take smart and craft any day, and don't particularly care for the brand of bball thats played in the L, but it is what it is. Your lying to yourself if you don't think it matters much. Always exceptions to the rule, and maybe KM is one of them...Battier certainly is a great example of using craft and smarts to get the most out of his "average" athleticism.)

[CDu]

I know it's easy to pick apart a players' deficiencies, especially a Heel, but the Marshall criticisms seem like wishful thinking to me. The kid is clearly a really solid and effective point guard who changed the entire complexion of a team that nearly made the Final Four. I don't care if he can't score or lacks quickness or whatever. The team hums when he leads it, he is exactly the right PG for that team, and, I'd argue, the most important guy on their team this year because that ball is going to have to move and find the right hands at the right time in a delicate balance to ensure that everyone is happy with their roll, touches, exposure, you name it. He seems to have amazing natural feel for the game.

As for the Marshall/Scheyer comparisons, it's interesting because if you added them together, they'd be perfect...one is a natural PG who struggles with scoring, the other is a gifted scorer who was a PG by default whose primary value at that spot was taking care of the ball and not losing his offensive mindset while running the team. Jon, essentially, brought the ball up but it was in Nolan's hands quite a bit on the offensive end. The Heels are better when that ball is moving through Marshall again and again because of his vision and passing...and, as usual, they'd rather not set up in the half court at all if the break or secondary break yields easy baskets for their running bigs and wings.

I don't think anyone is questioning Marshall's capability of leading UNC as the PG. The discussion is about his pro prospects. And I think the questions of his athleticism and ability to withstand defensive pressure at the NBA level are legitimate.

[SilkyJ]

And I think the questions of his athleticism and ability to withstand defensive pressure at the NBA level are legitimate.

Agreed, and I'd amend to say "Withstand and provide defensive pressure." Not sure he can guard opposing NBA level PGs either, but that may be a lesser issue b/c no one can stop CP3, Rose, etc. anyways in a 1-on-1 setting.

[Class of '94]

My Carolina sources think that Marshall is more than willing to start taking NBA money sooner than later.

The fact that the UNC coaching staff has recruited PGs in back to back years would lend credence to the staff thinking Marshall will declare or strongly consider declaring after this season.

[Huh?]

Keep in mind that athleticism is great and all, but it's way over-rated in a five man game. Players that are smart and crafty can give up some physical advantages and still be very successful.

To back up this point, take a look at the '86 Celtics line up. A great team and NBA champions.

D. Ainge
D. Johnson
Bird
K. McHale
R. Parrish

I'd argue that their entire starting line up lacked "athleticism", by run, jump, quickness definition, and they beat some extremely athletic teams.

Different game back then.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Yep..the shorts were a whole lot tighter.

[CPDUKEGUY24]

The Suns aren't actually looking for a PG to take over for Nash. They have the guy that they think is the answer in Goran Dragic. And I'd say it remains to be seen whether Marshall can successfully run the point for an NBA team.

Not to go further off topic, just a slight correction.

A late trade put Goran Dragic in Houston, in exchange for Aaron Brooks to Phoenix, late last season. I was surprised to see them abandon the Dragic project after sticking with him for so long, and seemingly grooming him as the apprentice.

Okay back to 2013 recruiting...

[Devilsfan]

Speaking of players not being athletic.. I remember that credit card spokesperson Doug Gottleib calling the future National Champs unathletic.

[lotusland]

When this issue was raised back in the day, the response among NBA players was, "Say whatever you like about athleticism, but Danny Ainge is one of the best athletes in the league."

sagegrouse

Only HS AA in football, basketball and baseball ever if I recall correctly. He sure did look strange playing third base at 6'5 though.

[jimsumner]

Only HS AA in football, basketball and baseball ever if I recall correctly. He sure did look strange playing third base at 6'5 though.


I'd be reluctant to question the atheticism of anyone who could play 14 seasons in the NBA AND play major-league baseball. It's a pretty rare skill set.

[Turtleboy]

Robert Parish was strong, with good hand to eye coordination, quick feet and plenty of speed. Quite athletic, if you ask me.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Seems to me that Marshall's weaknesses relate mostly to a lack of extreme athleticism, particularly a lack of speed and lateral quickness, and it's hard to improve those types of things. He could improve his shooting, of course.

I also think that Marshall has been touted as gifted player since he was quite young and that may influence his thinking and that of his father. That is, they may have an inflated view of his abilities.

I just ran across this latest Draft preview from the SportingNews (http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2011-10-06/expect-a-loaded-class-in-2012-nba-draft) that I'll pass along and it has Marshall in the lottery, along with Barnes, Henson, and McAdoo.

Full disclosure...although I am sponsored by SportingNews and on the payroll, Wheat/"/"/" was not consulted in the making of this list. :)

[Huh?]

I just ran across this latest Draft preview from the SportingNews (http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2011-10-06/expect-a-loaded-class-in-2012-nba-draft) that I'll pass along and it has Marshall in the lottery, along with Barnes, Henson, and McAdoo.

Full disclosure...although I am sponsored by SportingNews and on the payroll, Wheat/"/"/" was not consulted in the making of this list. :)

Kendall Marshall, yeah right

[El_Diablo]

I just ran across this latest Draft preview from the SportingNews (http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2011-10-06/expect-a-loaded-class-in-2012-nba-draft) that I'll pass along and it has Marshall in the lottery, along with Barnes, Henson, and McAdoo.

Full disclosure...although I am sponsored by SportingNews and on the payroll, Wheat/"/"/" was not consulted in the making of this list. :)

I know moderator tryouts aren't until November, so I apologize in advance for asking this, but can we please move the "Kendall Marshall's NBA potential" discussion to a relevant thread?

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I know moderator tryouts aren't until November, so I apologize in advance for asking this, but can we please move the "Kendall Marshall's NBA potential" discussion to a relevant thread?


My apologies too, we did get a little sidetracked.

Here's a Duke/UNC target '13 Matt Jones video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_783-EypNA&feature=related)I'm not sure that has been posted before to get back on track.

Looks like the release on his jumper is a little low to me...

[CDu]

Not to go further off topic, just a slight correction.

A late trade put Goran Dragic in Houston, in exchange for Aaron Brooks to Phoenix, late last season. I was surprised to see them abandon the Dragic project after sticking with him for so long, and seemingly grooming him as the apprentice.

Okay back to 2013 recruiting...

Wow, didn't realize they'd made that trade. Brooks is actually a more productive player than Dragic and only slightly older, so my statement may still hold (not sure how they feel about Brooks as the long-term starter). But thanks for the correction.

[Newton_14]

Creating this thread to save the 2013 Recruiting Thread and moving all of the KM draft posts from that thread into this one.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

When this issue was raised back in the day, the response among NBA players was, "Say whatever you like about athleticism, but Danny Ainge is one of the best athletes in the league."

sagegrouse

Yep, he was an excellent athlete, and I knew this was coming when that statement was made, hence the "....lacked "athleticism", by run, jump, quickness definition" I threw in :)

Ainge was never the fastest guy on the floor, plenty could out jump him. and lots were quicker, but he could sure play.

And it's hard to argue anybody that makes it to the NBA is not an excellent athlete.

[UrinalCake]

In my opinion, KM is more Steve Blake than Jason Kidd.

That's a horrible comparison. Blake is white; KM is black.

Just kidding of course. I think Blake is a reasonable comparison on offense, but on defense Blake was superior. He took Jason Williams out of his game on multiple occasions, which defied all logic considering how physically dominant Williams was over him. With that said, the poise that Marshall showed as a freshman especially with the whole Drew fiasco was darn impressive. I think he'd do well to leave sooner rather than later, when his physical limitations might outweigh his psychological and intellectual tools in the eyes of NBA scouts.

[nmduke2001]

That's a horrible comparison. Blake is white; KM is black.

Just kidding of course. I think Blake is a reasonable comparison on offense, but on defense Blake was superior. He took Jason Williams out of his game on multiple occasions, which defied all logic considering how physically dominant Williams was over him. With that said, the poise that Marshall showed as a freshman especially with the whole Drew fiasco was darn impressive. I think he'd do well to leave sooner rather than later, when his physical limitations might outweigh his psychological and intellectual tools in the eyes of NBA scouts.

You're right. Blake was/is a better defender. KM and Blake have very similiar offensive games in my opinion. They are both underwhelming in terms of athleticism and shooting but seem to somehow get the job done. The Jason Kidd talk was a little crazy.

[dukeballboy88]

I think K exposed Marshall and UNC a little bit in that ACC tourney thrashing Duke put on the heels.

Make Marshal go right, Guard your man and dont come to help on KM's penetration thus forcing him to make a shot. Then tell all 5 guys to put a body on someone and go get the board. KM proved last year he struggled to make shots.

K drew up the blueprint last year thats why I think Duke is the team to beat in the ACC.

[wilko]

I think K exposed Marshall and UNC a little bit in that ACC tourney thrashing Duke put on the heels.

Make Marshal go right, Guard your man and dont come to help on KM's penetration thus forcing him to make a shot. Then tell all 5 guys to put a body on someone and go get the board. KM proved last year he struggled to make shots.

K drew up the blueprint last year thats why I think Duke is the team to beat in the ACC.


KM is great! He should withdraw from school immediately and try for some supplemental draft or something. He shouldn't wait. He should leave the team today!

In all seriousness, players improve. Last yr was last yr and this yr is this yr. Look at Nolan's track. Got better every yr. why wouldn't KM? Thats not to say K wont find new ways to exploit UNC. We DO have the greatest living active coach on the bench.

[UrinalCake]

You're right. Blake was/is a better defender. KM and Blake have very similiar offensive games in my opinion. They are both underwhelming in terms of athleticism and shooting but seem to somehow get the job done. The Jason Kidd talk was a little crazy.

I actually think Steve Nash would be a better comp than Jason Kidd. Still a long way to go for Marshall to get there, of course, but he does provide a blueprint for a guy without lightning speed making it in the NBA.

[UNCleRod]

i think the best comparison for Kendall Marshall would be Mark Jackson

[nmduke2001]

I actually think Steve Nash would be a better comp than Jason Kidd. Still a long way to go for Marshall to get there, of course, but he does provide a blueprint for a guy without lightning speed making it in the NBA.


Sorry, but I don't think that is a good comparison. Steve Nash is one of the greatest shooters in NBA history. He is one of only 5 players EVER to be part of the 40-50-90 club (Bird twice, Dirk, Mark Price, Reggie, Nash 4 times!). 40% from the three, 50% from the field, and 90% from the free throw line. Nash has done it 4 times in his career. His shooting ability forces defenders to stay close and that allows him to drive past for lay-ups and assists. KM isn't on the same planet as a shooter and not in the same area code as a passer.

Mark Jackson is a pretty good comparison.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

Marshall doesn't fit that description at all. He's in fact fairly slow for a PG. There is virtually no similarity between him and Felton/Lawson. As for Williams, he's had success in the past (at Kansas) without an explosive north-south PG. And now he's had some success without an explosive north-south PG in Marshall.

I like to compare KM to Steve Blake, who seems to have found a nice niche in the league.

--->Just saw the other responses with this comparison which makes me feel it's even more spot on. KM's defense needs improvement, yes.

[CDu]

I actually think Steve Nash would be a better comp than Jason Kidd. Still a long way to go for Marshall to get there, of course, but he does provide a blueprint for a guy without lightning speed making it in the NBA.

I don't think either Nash or Kidd is a very good comp.

In terms of not being a great defender and not being a highly-"athletic" player, Nash is a decent comp for Marshall. But in terms of scoring ability, it's night and day. Nash has always been a terrific shooter and scorer, and has a much better sense of when to shoot and when to pass (Marshall is at times TOO unselfish, occasionally giving up open layup attempts to throw it back over his head to a 3pt shooter).

Of the comparisons I've seen (Kidd, Blake, Nash, Mark Jackson) I think Blake is the closest. But I think Blake was a better ballhandler (harder to pressure) and better defender. Marshall is a more creative passer.

Jackson had that great post-up game offensively and was a tougher defender. Similarly not explosive athletically, but Jackson was much more physical.

[CDu]

KM is great! He should withdraw from school immediately and try for some supplemental draft or something. He shouldn't wait. He should leave the team today!

In all seriousness, players improve. Last yr was last yr and this yr is this yr. Look at Nolan's track. Got better every yr. why wouldn't KM? Thats not to say K wont find new ways to exploit UNC. We DO have the greatest living active coach on the bench.

The difference is that Marshall's areas for improvement (athleticism, defense, and scoring ability) are much harder to improve. Smith was always a great athlete and scorer. He just took time to find his role.

That's not to say that Marshall can't improve.

[Des Esseintes]

I don't think either Nash or Kidd is a very good comp.

In terms of not being a great defender and not being a highly-"athletic" player, Nash is a decent comp for Marshall. But in terms of scoring ability, it's night and day. Nash has always been a terrific shooter and scorer, and has a much better sense of when to shoot and when to pass (Marshall is at times TOO unselfish, occasionally giving up open layup attempts to throw it back over his head to a 3pt shooter).

Of the comparisons I've seen (Kidd, Blake, Nash, Mark Jackson) I think Blake is the closest. But I think Blake was a better ballhandler (harder to pressure) and better defender. Marshall is a more creative passer.

Jackson had that great post-up game offensively and was a tougher defender. Similarly not explosive athletically, but Jackson was much more physical.

I'm just going to throw this out there because I haven't thought it through thoroughly, but what about the Other Jason Williams? Marshall is more controlled (although post-Hubie Brown Williams doesn't turn the ball over much) and less flashy, but both players have excellent vision combined with weak shooting and weak defense. I suppose White Chocolate is a stronger ballhandler, but slick as he was, he never got to the hoop enough to draw many fouls.

[wilko]

The difference is that Marshall's areas for improvement (athleticism, defense, and scoring ability) are much harder to improve. That's not to say that Marshall can't improve.

I see your points and am inclined to agree up to a certain point.
Take JJ. Look at him as a frosh to where he evolved as a Sr. Maybe JJ's development path is a better parallel to KM than Nolan.
JJ went from being a spot up shooter to a primary ballhandler/distributor. He did it by controlling the things he COULD control. Reducing body fat, increasing strength and stamina and offensive efficiency. If a guy is only going to take 4 shots a game, the he darn well ought to MAKE them!

Now that was over 4 yrs. KM is just entering his 2nd yr... hardly a fair comparison. Still he can improve. It remains to be seen if he or his teammates put in the work, or are just too busy reading their press clippings. I hope for the latter.

How odd it is for ME to speak favorably of a Hole. I need a shower
I like throwing them under the bus as much as their coach does.

[CDu]

I see your points and am inclined to agree up to a certain point.
Take JJ. Look at him as a frosh to where he evolved as a Sr. Maybe JJ's development path is a better parallel to KM than Nolan.
JJ went from being a spot up shooter to a primary ballhandler/distributor. He did it by controlling the things he COULD control. Reducing body fat, increasing strength and stamina and offensive efficiency. If a guy is only going to take 4 shots a game, the he darn well ought to MAKE them!

Now that was over 4 yrs. KM is just entering his 2nd yr... hardly a fair comparison. Still he can improve. It remains to be seen if he or his teammates put in the work, or are just too busy reading their press clippings. I hope for the latter.

How odd it is for ME to speak favorably of a Hole. I need a shower
I like throwing them under the bus as much as their coach does.

I don't disagree with the rest, but I have to discuss the part in bold. Redick was never the primary ballhandler/distributor at Duke. As a junior, the primary ballhandler/distributor was Ewing. As a senior, the primary ballhandler/distributor was Paulus. Redick was always a wing at Duke - he just got dramatically better at wing skills (attacking the basket off a pump fake, coming off screens better, drawing more fouls, better endurance, etc).

[CDu]

I'm just going to throw this out there because I haven't thought it through thoroughly, but what about the Other Jason Williams? Marshall is more controlled (although post-Hubie Brown Williams doesn't turn the ball over much) and less flashy, but both players have excellent vision combined with weak shooting and weak defense. I suppose White Chocolate is a stronger ballhandler, but slick as he was, he never got to the hoop enough to draw many fouls.

I think you might be underselling Jason Williams's athleticism. In addition to being a stronger ballhandler, he was a much better athlete (the dude was actually extremely quick and a good leaper). I think he was also a bit better as a scorer (but that was a function of his athleticism and ability to get to the basket defensively rather than superior offensive skills).

[flyingdutchdevil]

Can someone explain to me how Kendall Marshall is a lottery pick if:

a) He can't defend his shadow in college ball
b) The PG position is the most difficult position to defend in the NBA due to the hand check rule

Can you imagine KM defending Derrick Rose or John Wall? Good luck to him...

I'll admit it, KM is probably the second best offensive PG in college ball (after Wisconsin's Taylor), but he is terrible in D and this will be masked like crazy by the remaining UNC lineup (the string bean may be the best defensive PF in college ball). I like KM - I really do - but him as a lottery pick makes no sense.

[wilko]

I don't disagree with the rest, but I have to discuss the part in bold. Redick was never the primary ballhandler/distributor at Duke. As a junior, the primary ballhandler/distributor was Ewing. As a senior, the primary ballhandler/distributor was Paulus. Redick was always a wing at Duke - he just got dramatically better at wing skills (attacking the basket off a pump fake, coming off screens better, drawing more fouls, better endurance, etc).

A small nit. Blame it on age. Perhaps I blocked that out cuz I would sometime cringe at DE's shot selection.
Point stands that he got better by working on the things he COULD affect.

[wilko]

Can someone explain to me how Kendall Marshall is a lottery pick if:

a) He can't defend his shadow in college ball
b) The PG position is the most difficult position to defend in the NBA due to the hand check rule

Can you imagine KM defending Derrick Rose or John Wall? Good luck to him...

I'll admit it, KM is probably the second best offensive PG in college ball (after Wisconsin's Taylor), but he is terrible in D and this will be masked like crazy by the remaining UNC lineup (the string bean may be the best defensive PF in college ball). I like KM - I really do - but him as a lottery pick makes no sense.

It doesn't really matter , All that's important is that he separates himself from UNC and decrease their chances to win.

[Des Esseintes]

Can someone explain to me how Kendall Marshall is a lottery pick if:

a) He can't defend his shadow in college ball
b) The PG position is the most difficult position to defend in the NBA due to the hand check rule

Can you imagine KM defending Derrick Rose or John Wall? Good luck to him...

I'll admit it, KM is probably the second best offensive PG in college ball (after Wisconsin's Taylor), but he is terrible in D and this will be masked like crazy by the remaining UNC lineup (the string bean may be the best defensive PF in college ball). I like KM - I really do - but him as a lottery pick makes no sense.

There is a school of thought that argues that the hand check rule has made the point guard position impossible to defend. And since the position is impossible to defend, goes this argument, it is less crucial to have a plus defender at the position. Steve Nash's teams, for instance, have been able to prosper with him on the court for vast stretches of time. Part of this comes of Nash being an intelligent, if not physically gifted, defender; part of it comes of his teams' efforts to "hide" him on D; part of it comes from his overwhelming offensive contribution. In any event, bad defense does not deep-six you at the pg slot in the Association. As several posters have mentioned, Nash might be the greatest shooter in the history of the game, so this comparison is not one-to-one, just an example.

[Des Esseintes]

I think you might be underselling Jason Williams's athleticism. In addition to being a stronger ballhandler, he was a much better athlete (the dude was actually extremely quick and a good leaper). I think he was also a bit better as a scorer (but that was a function of his athleticism and ability to get to the basket defensively rather than superior offensive skills).

That's fair. It is difficult to find adequate comps for Marshall. Most of the guys who've succeeded in the NBA have been superior athletes or far more accomplished as scorers (Jackson's post-up game, Nash's shooting). But it's not as if Marshall is similar to your roly-poly Khalid El Amin and Levance Fields types who *didn't* make it to the next level. He's a superlative passer, far beyond those guys. There was Doug Gottlieb, who could pass excellently, but he couldn't make free throws more than half the time.

[lotusland]

It's been about 15-years since I paid much attention to NBA but why should that stop me from opining?

I think Mark Jackson is the best comparison that I've read here. He had a pretty long NBA career but that is probably the ceiling for KM. It's hard to compensate for being deficient in both height and quickness for an NBA point guard. Consider that he'll be guarding someone who is either bigger, quicker or both every single night. I see no reason to believe that his chances at NBA success, going in, are better than Ed Cota or Joseph Forte.

Borderline guys like Jon, KM and Nolan occasionally end up with a team that is a good fit and stick by carving out a niche as a role player but most don't. Maybe this is just wishful thinking on my part but I think he should go this year if he's projected as a first rounder. His physical limitations mean he will be seen as someone with a low ceiling and it will get lower after the sophomore and Jr. years. At least from an NBA career standpoint he should go but maybe it means a lot to him to have a great college career. After all, you can't get your eligibility and scholarship back after you wash out of the league.

[Kedsy]

It's hard to compensate for being deficient in both height and quickness for an NBA point guard.

At 6'3", I don't think Marshall is deficient in height for an NBA PG. Quickness, probably, but not height. I think Marshall's problem in the NBA will be every team has a guy who can do what Nolan did to him in the ACC championship game. Until he's able to overcome that sort of thing, it's a risk for him to make the jump.