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moonpie23
10-02-2011, 10:48 AM
man, could TO make a bigger mistake? beating unc will only get you so far, but he's gonna rue the day if wilson wins the heisman...

Indoor66
10-02-2011, 10:51 AM
man, could TO make a bigger mistake? beating unc will only get you so far, but he's gonna rue the day if wilson wins the heisman...

?????????????? What is this thread about?

Olympic Fan
10-02-2011, 11:09 AM
?????????????? What is this thread about?

Somebody watched Russell Wilson have his national coming out party last night on ABC as he absolutely destroyed Nebraska and had Brent Musberger and Kirk Herbstreet anoint the Wisconsin QB as a Heisman frontrunner.

Most of us know the story -- Wilson was a GREAT QB at NC State -- first-team All-ACC as a freshman in 2008 ... ACC total offense leader last year ... on pace to challenge Philip Rivers' as the ACC all-time passing leader (well, probably not -- but he could have easily finished second in ACC history). But Wilson (whose second choice for college was Duke) was also a promising baseball shortstop and he signed a pro contract and for the last two summers has played in the minor leagues. That meant that he missed spring practice at State, Itr was hardly a problem going into last season as Wilson had a great junior year for State and led the Pack to a nine-win season. But when he left for summer baseball and refused to commit to returning for his senior season, O'Brien got antsy. He had another problem -- Wilson's presence had kept highly recruited QB Mike Glennon on the bench and there were rumblings that if Wilson returned, Glennon would transfer. So O'Brien made the choice to anoint Glennon as his starter and to tell Wilson that Glennon would be the starter, even if Wilson returned for his senior year. Well, it turned out that Wilson was an excellent student who actually graduated last spring. He was able to take advantage of the NCAA's grad-student loophole that allows graduates to attend grad school and play without sitting out (the same rule that allowed Greg Paulus to play football right away at Syracuse). Wilson became a coveted free agent, eventually picking Wisconsin over an offer from Auburn.

O'Brien insists that he did what he had to do ... maybe so, but as the season unfolds, people (especially State fans) can't help watching the two QBs and wondering if the Wolfpack coach made the right choice. Glennon is putting up good numbers, but the team is struggling (2-3). Wilson is having a spectacular year so far at Wisconsin. I don't think anybody would disagree that the Pack would be better off this year with Wilson ... the kicker is that Glennon is just a junior and will have another season.

So did O'Brien make the right choice?

My take is that you don't find greatness very often and when you do, you don't run it out of town. At the very worst I would tell Wilson that Glennon was first team coming out of spring, but the two QBs would compete for the starting job in preseason camp.

CDu
10-02-2011, 11:09 AM
man, could TO make a bigger mistake? beating unc will only get you so far, but he's gonna rue the day if wilson wins the heisman...

O'Brien wanted to have a QB for next year. If he'd let Wilson come back and start without spring practice, he'd have lost Glennon. He felt that 2 years of Glennon was better than one year of Wilson.

And comparing Wilson's performance with Wisconsin to Glennon's performance with NC State is a bit unfair. Wilson has a phenomenal offensive line and two great RB this year at Wisconsin. Glennon has neither. Wilson would not be a Heisman candidate in Raleigh this year.

I think everyone (even O'Brien) would agree that Wilson is better than Glennon (that was evidenced by Wilson being the starter over Glennon the last two years). O'Brien just wanted Wilson to make a commitment to the football team that Wilson wasn't willing to make.

It also doesn't help that, since O'Brien gave Wilson the choice of returning for spring practice or losing his starting job, State has lost their starting RB and a ton of their front seven. I'm not sure Wilson alone fixes either of those problems.

Kimist
10-02-2011, 11:26 AM
Wilson is a fine athlete as well as a class act all around. I have truly enjoyed watching any game with him as the quarterback.

The NCSU coach made a decision - whether good or bad, time will tell - about how to juggle the antsy benchwarmer QB with Wilson's spring practice conflicts. What is the real truth re his decision may never be known.

But I thoroughly agree with CDu about Wilson now having the luxury of an offensive line of the caliber possessed by Wisconsin. No matter how good Wilson might have been this season at State, rest assured he is likely far better with the supporting cast he now has.

Barring injuries or an unexpected team slump, Wilson is certainly a viable Heisman candidate.

k

moonpie23
10-02-2011, 11:30 AM
the scuttlebutt was that TO told russell that there would be no competition for the starting gig......

short sighted...

pamtar
10-02-2011, 11:35 AM
Losing Russell is costing us this season. Even though Glennon only has a handful of starts, he is nowhere near the player that Wilson is. Glennon has failed to put points on the board in crucial situations all year. His numbers are decent but a lot of that is garbage yards in the fourth quarter. He just hasn't found a way to make things happen like Wilson could. Even with the injuries were 3-1 with Russell, with a loss to Cincy.

Also, is it me or was Dana Bible calling some plays last night at camp randall?

Olympic Fan
10-02-2011, 12:23 PM
While the comments that Wilson benefits from a great OL and solid RBs at Wisconsin are valid, consider this -- which QB would have a better chance for success behind NC State's ragged OL -- the ultra-mobile Wilson or the strong-armed statue, Glennon?

It basically comes down to O'Brien's decision that two years of Glennon was worth more than one more year of Wilson.

Or as one fan at Packpride put it -- the coach told the best player on the team to get lost, to prevent a backup QB who hadn't been able to beat the star out for three seasons from transferring.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

CDu
10-02-2011, 12:38 PM
the scuttlebutt was that TO told russell that there would be no competition for the starting gig......

short sighted...

O'Brien told Wilson that if he didn't show up for spring practice, there'd be no competition for the job in the fall. In other words, if Wilson came to spring practice he'd be the starter. If he didn't, Glennon would be the starter.

It came down to O'Brien wanting to have two years of (theoretically) good QB play instead of one year of very good QB play. It may or may not have been the right decision, but it's actually the opposite of short-sighted.

CDu
10-02-2011, 12:42 PM
While the comments that Wilson benefits from a great OL and solid RBs at Wisconsin are valid, consider this -- which QB would have a better chance for success behind NC State's ragged OL -- the ultra-mobile Wilson or the strong-armed statue, Glennon?

It basically comes down to O'Brien's decision that two years of Glennon was worth more than one more year of Wilson.

Or as one fan at Packpride put it -- the coach told the best player on the team to get lost, to prevent a backup QB who hadn't been able to beat the star out for three seasons from transferring.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

I was the one who brought up the differences in talent on the Wisconsin and NC State. That was by no means with the intention of saying that State would be better off with Glennon this year than with Wilson. It was rather to point out that Wilson would not have been a Heisman candidate.

In fact, I said that Wilson would be better than Glennon. I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that. The point was (as we've both stated) O'Brien wanted to have a good QB for two years rather than a very good QB for one.

davekay1971
10-02-2011, 12:42 PM
the scuttlebutt was that TO told russell that there would be no competition for the starting gig......

short sighted...

Actually just the opposite. TO'B chose the longer view (2 years) over the one. What hasn't yet been mentioned in the thread is that Glennon also had graduated and could have made the same transfer-without-sitting-out move that Wilson made. O'Brien was in between a rock and a hard place, having to decide between (as has already been stated in this thread) 2 years of a quarterback who he believes has the tools to be a college star and NFL player, vs. 1 year of a proven star. I bet even O'Brien thinks that NC State would be better at QB this year with Wilson, but then he's left next year with neither. It's not a good position to be in.

Making matters worse, State has lost it's best 2 running backs and has a corps of young receivers who aren't stepping up the way he'd hoped. In short, he needs a mobile quarterback who can extend plays. Someone like, say, Russell Wilson. Furthermore, he has a defense once again decimated by injuries so they're playing from behind. Finally, Wilson is a monster in the Wisconsin offense and that team is likely to be in the national championship conversation (and Wilson in the Heisman discussion) all year long.

Basically the perfect storm for this to blow up in his face. I don't envy O'Brien at all. But at the time he had to make the decision...Wilson for one year or Glennon for two...given that he believes Glennon could be as good as Matt Ryan, it was a logical decision. But a decision that's likely to cost him all the good last season and his record against Kerlina has built with the Wolfpack Nation.

Rather than focus on all that negative for TO'B, I'm trying to really enjoy Wilson's season. He was a great, great player for the Pack. That 3rd down run against Carolina last year was a once in a lifetime play. He seems like a great young man and deserves anything good that comes his way. If he can win the Heisman and bring a championship, or at least a Rose Bowl win, to Wisconsin, more power to him.

camion
10-02-2011, 12:49 PM
I don't blame O'Brien for his decision. It was a tough choice.

Wisconsin wins big on this one though.

Acymetric
10-02-2011, 02:56 PM
Wilson wouldn't even be in the conversation for the Heisman at State this year...this is a better place for him and personally I think State would only be slightly better with him anyway. QB is not one of their first 8 problems.

Wander
10-02-2011, 06:04 PM
Wisconsin is going to the BCS title game this year. Wilson is exact type of guy that they need - a dynamic playmaker who elevates the Badgers from being their stereotypical solid fundamentals, good running game, sound defense/coaching type team to potential greatness.

moonpie23
10-02-2011, 06:27 PM
ok...so remind me why state is better off without him?

CDu
10-02-2011, 09:21 PM
ok...so remind me why state is better off without him?

Nobody said State's better off without Wilson this year. In fact, everyone has said that State would be better this year with Wilson. But as has been repeatedly said, the idea is that O'Brien was making sure he had a good QB for both this year and next year.

Even with Wilson, this State team would be a second-tier ACC team thanks to all of the injuries. They'd probably be 3-2 instead of 2-3.

But O'Brien felt that two years of a slightly-less-talented Glennon was worth more than one year of a more-talented Wilson and then a huge question mark at QB.

Devilsfan
10-02-2011, 09:26 PM
Thank goodness TO is more stubborn than smart. The Badgers and Russell couldn't be happier. Remember the losses are not TO's fault their because of injuries, just ask him.

CDu
10-02-2011, 09:32 PM
Thank goodness TO is more stubborn than smart. The Badgers and Russel couldn't be happier.

It's a great fit for Wisconsin and it's a much better situation for Wilson. In Wisconsin, he has a fantastic situation and an opportunity to be in the running for the Heisman (though his teammate Ball may have something to say about it) and maybe even a national championship (things will have to play out right for them, though). At State, he'd be All-ACC but have little to no shot at the Heisman and no shot at a title.

Newton_14
10-02-2011, 09:54 PM
Nobody said State's better off without Wilson this year. In fact, everyone has said that State would be better this year with Wilson. But as has been repeatedly said, the idea is that O'Brien was making sure he had a good QB for both this year and next year.

Even with Wilson, this State team would be a second-tier ACC team thanks to all of the injuries. They'd probably be 3-2 instead of 2-3.

But O'Brien felt that two years of a slightly-less-talented Glennon was worth more than one year of a more-talented Wilson and then a huge question mark at QB.

Actually that is not entirely true either. Close, but with one key element left out. I think many people are conveniently misremembering the facts here (not you CDU). Wilson put TOB in an impossible position last winter. Wilson was directly asked numerous times by TOB if he was going to return to State to play Football, and he would not commit. Wilson told TOB that he was focusing on his baseball career (which boggles the mind given how bad of a baseball player he is/was).

TOB knew for sure that he would not have Wilson in the Spring, nor Summer, and there was no guarantee he would be there in the Fall. That put TOB in a very tough position. If he announces that Wilson is welcome to come back for another year and "compete for the starting job", Glennon transfers. That means no experienced QB in the Spring and Summer to work with all the new receivers, and no idea who the QB will be when the season starts. Could be Wilson, or it could be the 3rd String guy. Then, even if Wilson has the change of heart most expected, State still goes into next year with an in-experienced QB.

If Wilson had been forthwrignt last winter, and fully committed to coming back, I expect TOB would have let him, and he would have rolled the dice for 2013. With Wilson not committing, I don't see how TOB could have handled it differently.

State would be marginally better if they had Wilson, but at what price? At any rate, I blame Wilson for how this played out, not O'brien.

DukieInKansas
10-02-2011, 10:17 PM
Thank you, Russell Wilson, for giving Nebraska such a warm welcome to the Big 10. :)