MLB Wild Card talk

[JasonEvans]

It seems insane to confine the conversation to the Braves 2011 thread with both leagues facing compelling final-day mysteries. So, place all your comments on the excitment to come over the next 12-36 hours in this thread, if you will.

I'll get the ball rolling with this--

Have folks heard about this (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2011/09/report_red_sox_7.html)? The Sox are considering trading for a pitcher (Bruce Chen of the Royals) who would pitch game #163, but not be eligible for the playoffs. If there is a game 163, the Sox options are just horrid to pitch that game. This is a really interesting notion, though it would not apply for the Braves who seem to have a decent option for #163 in Beachy.

Is it fair to deal for a guy to play in one very special game?

-Jason "I suspect the Sox would not make such a move until tonight, after they know if #163 will happen" Evans

[throatybeard]

Wow. I didn't even know that was legal.

Also, after the walk-off grand slam last night, Arizona is just a game behind Milwaukee for the second-best record. I guess the matchups depend on who emerges for the wild card.

[rasputin]

It seems insane to confine the conversation to the Braves 2011 thread with both leagues facing compelling final-day mysteries. So, place all your comments on the excitment to come over the next 12-36 hours in this thread, if you will.

I'll get the ball rolling with this--

Have folks heard about this (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2011/09/report_red_sox_7.html)? The Sox are considering trading for a pitcher (Bruce Chen of the Royals) who would pitch game #163, but not be eligible for the playoffs. If there is a game 163, the Sox options are just horrid to pitch that game. This is a really interesting notion, though it would not apply for the Braves who seem to have a decent option for #163 in Beachy.

Is it fair to deal for a guy to play in one very special game?

-Jason "I suspect the Sox would not make such a move until tonight, after they know if #163 will happen" Evans

Is Mike Torrez available?

In all seriousness, imagine being Bruce Chen in that situation. You go around the clubhouse and introduce yourself to everybody (although I guess he's been teammates with some of the guys before; he's well-traveled) and then go out there with the whole season on the line.

[JasonEvans]

Is Mike Torrez available?

In all seriousness, imagine being Bruce Chen in that situation. You go around the clubhouse and introduce yourself to everybody (although I guess he's been teammates with some of the guys before; he's well-traveled) and then go out there with the whole season on the line.

Chen was actually with the Sox for a little while in 2003. He pitched in 5 games, including 2 starts. He was in Baltimore from 2004-07 and with the Royals the past 3 years. I am sure he knows the guys on the Sox a bit and probably knows a few of them fairly well.

Still, very weird. Pitcher is unquestionably the most important position on the field. The Sox would be putting the fate of the season in the hands of a guy who would have been with them for probably less than 24 hours.

-Jason "talk about well-traveled, Chen has pitched for 10 different teams... none for more than 3 season" Evans

[rasputin]

Chen was actually with the Sox for a little while in 2003. He pitched in 5 games, including 2 starts. He was in Baltimore from 2004-07 and with the Royals the past 3 years. I am sure he knows the guys on the Sox a bit and probably knows a few of them fairly well.

Still, very weird. Pitcher is unquestionably the most important position on the field. The Sox would be putting the fate of the season in the hands of a guy who would have been with them for probably less than 24 hours.

-Jason "talk about well-traveled, Chen has pitched for 10 different teams... none for more than 3 season" Evans

Who is left on the Sawx from the '03 season besides Varitek, Ortiz, and Wakefield?

[Olympic Fan]

I love the desperation! Then again, their options at the moment are Wakefield, Lachey (both on short rest) or Weiland (who has been terrible).

I saw another article that suggested that Lars Anderson (once regarded as a top prospect, but a recent disappointment) might go to the Royals for the one-day Chen rental. The timing is interesting -- what Zif they make the deal, then lose with Lester tonight? Then the Chen deal is for nothing. Can they delay the deal until after tonight's game? How far away is Chen from Tampa Bay (the site of Game 163)?

There have been a few one-day playoffs in baseball history, but NOBODY has been in as many historically dramatic one-game playoffs as the Red Sox (to be fair, the NL used to have a three-game playoff is there was a tie ... so the Bobby Thomson home run was in game 157 of a 154-game season). First, the Denny Galehouse disaster of 1948, then the Bucky Dent game in 1978. Now the Bruce Chen game in 2011?

PS Happy to see the Yankees starting Bettances tonight in Tampa. He's a guy with a great chance to earn a spot in our rotation next season and it will be great to see him in a pressure situation. Reportedly the Yankees will start their normal lineup around him. In hindsight, I wish the Braves had started Teheran last night instead of Lowe. He's Atlanta's version of Bettances (and is, in fact, an even higher rated prospect). A tough spot for a kid, but he couldn't have been worse than Lowe.

[rasputin]

I love the desperation! Then again, their options at the moment are Wakefield, Lachey (both on short rest) or Weiland (who has been terrible).

I saw another article that suggested that Lars Anderson (once regarded as a top prospect, but a recent disappointment) might go to the Royals for the one-day Chen rental. The timing is interesting -- what Zif they make the deal, then lose with Lester tonight? Then the Chen deal is for nothing. Can they delay the deal until after tonight's game? How far away is Chen from Tampa Bay (the site of Game 163)?

There have been a few one-day playoffs in baseball history, but NOBODY has been in as many historically dramatic one-game playoffs as the Red Sox (to be fair, the NL used to have a three-game playoff is there was a tie ... so the Bobby Thomson home run was in game 157 of a 154-game season). First, the Denny Galehouse disaster of 1948, then the Bucky Dent game in 1978. Now the Bruce Chen game in 2011?

PS Happy to see the Yankees starting Bettances tonight in Tampa. He's a guy with a great chance to earn a spot in our rotation next season and it will be great to see him in a pressure situation. Reportedly the Yankees will start their normal lineup around him. In hindsight, I wish the Braves had started Teheran last night instead of Lowe. He's Atlanta's version of Bettances (and is, in fact, an even higher rated prospect). A tough spot for a kid, but he couldn't have been worse than Lowe.

Yes, and on the NL side, as you point out, in the old days, these were 3-game playoffs, but in any event, the Dodgers are the poster child: they lost NL playoffs in 1946 (to the Cardinals), 1951 (Giants), 1962 (Giants again), and 1980 (NL West, to the Astros). They did win a playoff, over Milwaukee, in 1959, and went on to the first World Series victory ever for the Los Angeles edition of the Dodgers.

[JasonEvans]

In hindsight, I wish the Braves had started Teheran last night instead of Lowe. He's Atlanta's version of Bettances (and is, in fact, an even higher rated prospect). A tough spot for a kid, but he couldn't have been worse than Lowe.

Hindsight?!?! Most every Braves fan I know wanted us to start ANYONE but Lowe in foresight!

-Jason "Freddiot is the only person on the planet who thought Lowe was the right person to start last night... and I include Lowe, his mom and dad, and wife in that!" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Braves game (710pm start) will be running about 3-4 innings ahead of the Cards game (805pm start). Sorta sucks in terms of drama.

OTOH, Red Sox (705pm start) and Rays (710pm start) could be doing everything hand-in-hand. Should be fun!

-Jason "gonna rush home from Rosh Hashanah services, that's for sure!" Evans

[throatybeard]

I just looked at Lowe's wiki and learned two things. One, he's old as dirt. (This is his age 38 season). And two, he's a cancer survivor. I did not know that.

[sagegrouse]

But I gotta go for the Cards, for decades my favorite team. From age 8 to age 50 I batted lefthanded in organized baseball and softball leagues as a homage to Stan Musial, my boyhood hero.

I am also rooting for Tampa Bay, after they get raped and pillaged every year by the big-money Yanks and Red Sox. Gotta go for the low-budget option!

sagegrouse
'Also, you have no idea how bad the rightfielders were in the DC industrial leagues'

[arydolphin]

I grew up as a Braves fan, and have adopted the Red Sox since I moved to Boston 3 years ago. The next few hours are going to be agony for me.

The Red Sox have decided not to pull the trigger on the Chen trade, according to reports up here. Also, the Red Sox pitchers since Francona took over are horrible on 3 days rest, they are something like 4-13 with an ERA north of 7 in those situations since 2004. However, I have faith in Lester, even though he's been horrible over the last month (like most of the team).

[Duvall]

Well, that's the game. Congratulations to the Cardinals and their odious douchebag manager.

[theAlaskanBear]

Well, that's the game. Congratulations to the Cardinals and their odious douchebag manager.

Game is tied 1-1. And what??

[throatybeard]

Ticket to Cardinals-Braves tiebreak game purchased. $44 to Cardinals and $9 to ticketbastard or whoever. $53 I'll never get back...

...unless this gets settled tonight. I'm kind of rooting for everyone to win tonight at hit 90 wins. It would be electric tomorrow night.

True story, Ramar. There's an angry AM sports radio guy in this town called Kevin Slaten. His moniker for TLR is "LaRouchebag."

[theAlaskanBear]

Ticket to Cardinals-Braves tiebreak game purchased. $44 to Cardinals and $9 to ticketbastard or whoever. $53 I'll never get back...

...unless this gets settled tonight. I'm kind of rooting for everyone to win tonight at hit 90 wins. It would be electric tomorrow night.

True story, Ramar. There's an angry AM sports radio guy in this town called Kevin Slaten. His moniker for TLR is "LaRouchebag."

I understand LaRussa can be a little prickly with the media -- but hatred of him is pretty irrational when you consider he is the 2nd all-time in MLB wins and has a world series title in each league. I remember when some disgruntled fans flew a "Fire LaRussa" airplane over a stadium during the game (think it was in Spring training...or was it Busch Stadium?)

[throatybeard]

Mike Shannon on Myers giving up so many runs early. "The bullpens got a lot of work last night....Myers has to hitch up his belt...and comme ci, comme ça."

I don't know if he meant, "Que sera, sera," or something else, but I'm sure it was funnier the way he said it than any alternative.

[Blue in the Face]

So um, this is a pretty awesome night of baseball. Shame on the Cardinals for not having any sense of drama. Credit to mother nature for halting (at least for now) the rain in Balmor.

[throatybeard]

So um, this is a pretty awesome night of baseball. Shame on the Cardinals for not having any sense of drama. Credit to mother nature for halting (at least for now) the rain in Balmor.

How about the craziness of the one CDT game ending well in advance of all three EDT games?

[throatybeard]

Holy crap. Look at what the sad-sack Orioles just did to Papelbon.

I have to say, irrespective of what one's rooting interests are, I love the integrity of the competition tonight. Philadelphia could have lain down and rested everyone and they still took it to the Braves. Baltimore...Baltimore takes out one of the best closers in the game, repeatedly down to their last strike in a "meaningless
game [to them]. This is nothing like NBA teams tanking the last six, eight, ten games to improve their lottery position.

Anticipating a refund for my crappy seat at the one-game playoff that won't take place in Saint Louis tomorrow, I have purchased a cheaper, crappier (still $40) SRO ticket for NLDS game 3. I like walking around all game anyway, and I do even when I have a seat. Sad for Braves fans. That was rough.

Longoria just went yard. Holy crap x2.

[Olympic Fan]

Wow, there are no words to describe tonight. One of the guys on the MLB Network called it the greatest night of baseball in his lifetime. I understand that -- one of the four pivotal games was a snoozer (Cards crusing past the Astros), but the other three were miraculous. The Braves go to the ninth with a one-run lead and Kimball blows the save ... before the Braves finally lose in 13.

The Yanks blow a 7-0 lead (because Girardi refuses to use his 'A' relievers), but even so, the Rays are down to their last strike when Dan Johnson hits a pinch home run to force extra innings. In the top of the 12th, the Rays get out of a first-and-third, no-out jam. As the Yanks take the field for the bottom of the 12th, Papelbon appears to be putting the finishing touches on his save in Baltimore, but after two strikeouts, he gives up double, double, single and the Orioles turn a 3-2 deficit into a 4-3 win.

Less than a minute after the winning run crosses in Balitmore, Longoria pulls a shot down the line in left for a solo homer and an 8-7 win.

So no playoff games Thursday ... Boston and Atlanta can share the ignomy of the greatest dual meltdown in baseball history.

Two AL games Friday -- I know we have Verlander vs. Sabathia in Yankee Stadium Friday night ... I think Shields will go for the Rays against CJ Wilson in Texas.

The NL gets started Saturday ...

[roywhite]

Still just shaking my head from all the action tonight.

Pappelbon within one out of nailing down the save, and the Orioles put together 3 hits and 2 runs
Yankees lose a 7-0 lead in the 8th inning....how often does that happen?.....something like only twice before in their entire history!
Boston and Atlanta were within one out of winning their games and extending their season, but couldn't do it.
The Rays coming back from a 7-0 deficit, tying the game with two outs in the 9th, and then winning it with a HR....amazing.

Just one of the all-time nights of drama, not just for baseball, but sports in general.

[throatybeard]

Sportscenter has made two things blindingly clear. (1) This was a historic night of baseball. (2) Stuart Scott's shtick is the most catastrophically, embarrassingly played act on television. It was sort of fresh in Anno Domini MCMXCXII. Not now.

[throatybeard]

Guys on SC reported that the NYY haven't blown a lead that big that late since 1953. Zowie.

[Duvall]

I have to say, irrespective of what one's rooting interests are, I love the integrity of the competition tonight. Philadelphia could have lain down and rested everyone and they still took it to the Braves. Baltimore...Baltimore takes out one of the best closers in the game, repeatedly down to their last strike in a "meaningless
game [to them]. This is nothing like NBA teams tanking the last six, eight, ten games to improve their lottery position.

Integrity of competition? Nah. Philadelphia was trying to win the 2012 division by trying to get in the Braves' heads, and probably succeeded.

[Jim3k]

i am enjoying a little schadenfreude. My seats in Oakland are a few feet from the visiting bullpen. We share a batch of season tix with members of a little cadre. We make it a point to choose at least one game for every visiting team. Usually it works out. We are often surrounded by visiting fans and frequently have friendly conversations as we enjoy the game. The only two teams whose fans are really obnoxious are those who pull for the Yankees and Sawks. But even then, the Sawks fans are the worst. They are usually a bit sauced and the security people have to keep a close eye on them. Their sense of entitlement is even worse than those of, say,---mmmh----Carolina. I've seen them win and seen them lose. Either they gloat or they whine. And this is for mid-season games when nothing much is on the line. They generally qualify as both rude and uninformed but are always arrogant about it.

So, when I was watching the Sawks v. the O's tonight, and watched the cameras pan to the Boston fans who had come to the execution, my smugness knew no bounds as their confidence turned to agony. When Papelbon made his appearance, looking like Snoopy's version of a vulture, it looked as if they were ready to enjoy an Oriole meal. Pap quickly dispatched the first two hitters with gas and his visage grew very dark. I told myself that the next batter needed to hit the first pitch, as it would be a high heat fastball. He must have heard me, for Chris Davis slammed that pitch for a double and you could almost see the starch come out of Papelbon. But he regrouped for Reimold. Yet, Reimold had seen that Papelbon could be hit. He promptly found the gap as well, and PR Hudson scored on his ground rule double. Tie game. Now Papelbon began to talk to himself.

And...best of all...the smiles and pre-gloat happiness had been driven from the faces of the folks who had driven, Acelaed or whatevered themselves from Beantown to Balmore. The unthinkable had occurred...but wait!
The light-hitting Robert Andino was not to be feared, for the great Papelbon would devour him and give the Sawks another chance.

A minute later, tears would come to the arrogant as Andino swatted a liner to left that veteran Carl Crawford couldn't quite handle. And Reimold easily slid in ahead of the relay for the win.

Well done, O's. You never gave up.

And by the way, I actually like the Boston team; it's the fans I dislike. I agree that Jacoby Ellsbury is a legitimate MVP candidate. I think Dustin Pedroia is terrific. Heck, I respect Papelbon as one of the game's premier closers. And Marco Scutaro was one of my favorites when he played here. Even their manager, Terry Francona, used to be our bench coach and I like him personally.

Anyway, to the Boston arrogontes: Sayonara! Drive home keerful, now.

[Oriole Way]

Last night was definitely the most amazing night of regular season baseball in history.

I can't believe the astronomical odds of so many things happening to culminate in the Rays winning the Wild Card.

- The Rays coming back from a 7-0 deficit by scoring 7 runs - all 7 coming after the start of bottom of the 8th inning.

- The Rays turning a triple play in Tuesday's game, keeping the Yankees from increasing their lead at the time and setting up their eventual come-from-behind win.

- Dan Johnson hitting a pinch-hit homer with 2 outs and 2 strikes in the bottom of the ninth. He was hitting .108, he hadn't hit a home run since April 8th, and it was only his second home run of the season.

- The Red Sox blowing a 3-2 lead with 2 outs and no one on in the bottom of the ninth - to the bottom of the Orioles lineup. Getting Reimold to 2 strikes, and still not being able to put the Orioles away.

- The Red Sox being 77-0 when leading after 8 innings until tonight, but somehow losing their first game in such a situation to the last place team in the division, a team against which Boston starting pitcher Jon Lester was previously 14-0 in 17 career starts.

- Carl Crawford - one of baseball's highest-paid players - capping off a season of pure sucking with a pathetic "attempt" at a catch of Andino's weak and very catch-able liner.

- And of course, the mind-boggling collapse by the Red Sox throughout September that made tonight possible: blowing the 9 game lead they held on September 4th.

All these among several other improbable events, including the Yankees (in the 12th inning) and Red Sox (in the 9th) getting multiple runners on base with no one out and not being able to score.

As an Orioles fan, I certainly wish my team could have even a shred of the Red Sox' recent success. But watching the Wild Card games last night was absolutely incredible as a sports fan, and the collapses by the Red Sox and Braves were truly astonishing.

[bluebear]

i am enjoying a little schadenfreude. My seats in Oakland are a few feet from the visiting bullpen. We share a batch of season tix with members of a little cadre. We make it a point to choose at least one game for every visiting team. Usually it works out. We are often surrounded by visiting fans and frequently have friendly conversations as we enjoy the game. The only two teams whose fans are really obnoxious are those who pull for the Yankees and Sawks. But even then, the Sawks fans are the worst. They are usually a bit sauced and the security people have to keep a close eye on them. Their sense of entitlement is even worse than those of, say,---mmmh----Carolina. I've seen them win and seen them lose. Either they gloat or they whine. And this is for mid-season games when nothing much is on the line. They generally qualify as both rude and uninformed but are always arrogant about it.

So, when I was watching the Sawks v. the O's tonight, and watched the cameras pan to the Boston fans who had come to the execution, my smugness knew no bounds as their confidence turned to agony. When Papelbon made his appearance, looking like Snoopy's version of a vulture, it looked as if they were ready to enjoy an Oriole meal. Pap quickly dispatched the first two hitters with gas and his visage grew very dark. I told myself that the next batter needed to hit the first pitch, as it would be a high heat fastball. He must have heard me, for Chris Davis slammed that pitch for a double and you could almost see the starch come out of Papelbon. But he regrouped for Reimold. Yet, Reimold had seen that Papelbon could be hit. He promptly found the gap as well, and PR Hudson scored on his ground rule double. Tie game. Now Papelbon began to talk to himself.

And...best of all...the smiles and pre-gloat happiness had been driven from the faces of the folks who had driven, Acelaed or whatevered themselves from Beantown to Balmore. The unthinkable had occurred...but wait!
The light-hitting Robert Andino was not to be feared, for the great Papelbon would devour him and give the Sawks another chance.

A minute later, tears would come to the arrogant as Andino swatted a liner to left that veteran Carl Crawford couldn't quite handle. And Reimold easily slid in ahead of the relay for the win.

Well done, O's. You never gave up.

And by the way, I actually like the Boston team; it's the fans I dislike. I agree that Jacoby Ellsbury is a legitimate MVP candidate. I think Dustin Pedroia is terrific. Heck, I respect Papelbon as one of the game's premier closers. And Marco Scutaro was one of my favorites when he played here. Even their manager, Terry Francona, used to be our bench coach and I like him personally.

Anyway, to the Boston arrogontes: Sayonara! Drive home keerful, now.

From a sox fan, thanks so much for the lesson on how not to be arrogant and obnoxious. :roll eyes:
As a diehard who watches just about every game each year, I am glad the season is over. This team had no business making the playoffs. This has been a month long root canal. Injuries aside, this team had way way way too much talent to play the way they did for a whole month. Last night was a perfectly fitting ending as an undervalued Rays team with very little offense to speak of, put up 7 runs in 2 innings including the homer with 2 outs and 2 strikes in the ninth while the overpaid sox squandered chance after chance only to blow the lead with 2 outs in the ninth. It'll be an interested off season as the sox return a very talented team (though decisions on Papelbon and Ortiz await) but clearly this team lacked some key element to win. Pedroia, Youkilis, Papelbon and others seem like gamers but the team overall just rolled over. I have to think that Francona is gone. I've liked him as a manager and he's done a great job of managing a lot of personalities but most of those personalities have moved on. Could be that the current players need something else.

[Olympic Fan]

Sportscenter has made two things blindingly clear. (1) This was a historic night of baseball. (2) Stuart Scott's shtick is the most catastrophically, embarrassingly played act on television. It was sort of fresh in Anno Domini MCMXCXII. Not now.

My experience was helped by the fact that I spent five hours watching the MLB Network, rather than ESPN. They spent almost the entire five hours bouncing between the four key games, which an occasional look-in in the Milwaukee-Arizona and Detroit-Texas race for the No. 2 seed in both leads (plus an occasional Ryan Braun at-bat early to see if he could make a run a at Reyes for the batting title). They had all the action from all four big games ... plus, no Stuart Scott.

As for the Yankees blowing the big lead, it's simple -- it didn't matter to them (or maybe they just wanted to stick it to the Red Sox).

They used eight pitchers in the first seven innings to build the 7-0 lead. When Logan and Ayala get in trouble in the eighth, they don't bring in Rivera, Robertson or even Soriano. They led Wade try to close it out. When he fails, they throw in the towell, bringing in Scott Proctor. Anybody who has followed the Yankees knows that Proctor is the real white flag.

[weezie]

Stuart Scott's shtick is the most catastrophically, embarrassingly played act on television.

I agree, with one reservation: the Swami is pretty gosh darned awful, too, albeit they don't drag that one out too often. I'd have to go with Stuie in first place.
He sucks all the joy out of a good sports story.

There's quiet joy in Tigertown to day!
Big Apple, here we come!

[roywhite]

I agree, with one reservation: the Swami is pretty gosh darned awful, too, albeit they don't drag that one out too often. I'd have to go with Stuie in first place.
He sucks all the joy out of a good sports story.

There's quiet joy in Tigertown to day!
Big Apple, here we come!

Right on, weezie!
Can't stand either Stu Scott or Chris Berman.

Good luck to your Tigers.
I'm a Phils fan, but I'd be quite happy to see the Motown boys in the WS.

Looks like AL on Friday (Rays at TX at 5:07 Eastern time, and Tigers/Yanks at 8:37)
No times yet for NL games on Saturday.

The essence of a dilemma:
gorgeous fall weekend with plenty of chores that need done around the roywhite household
Tons of college football, baseball playoffs, and NFL on the tube....

Hmmm....

[BlueDevilBaby]

Absolutely amazing. As a Yankees fan, I loved seeing Papelbon blow the save. I ended up rooting for the Braves and am truly disappointed for them. Lastly, I'm proud of my Nats taking 3rd place in the NL East and hoping for another 10+ game improvement next season and a long term contract for Zimmerman. LET'S GO YANKEES!!

[Olympic Fan]

Fascinating read:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7033950/a-running-diary-game-162

Bill Simmons, the most unabashed Boston Red Sox fan on the planet, kept a running diary of last night's games. Some really funny lines (like when he's complaining about how the Yankees had cleared their bench, he says, "Due up for the Yankees in the 11th, Rudy Stein, Miguel Agular and Timmy Lupus."). But also some eerie prognostication -- from the beginning, he's haunted by the thought that Andino is going to screw the Sox and take his place in the pantheon of Enos Slaughter, Denny Galehouse, Bucky Dent, Bill Buckner and Aaron Boone (Andino drove in the winning run); his reaction to the Yankees brining in Proctor is priceless (although it didn't take a wizard to see that one coming).

Most interesting was Simmons wrestling with his pre-2004 Boston fatalism and his post 2007 confidence. Good read.

[theAlaskanBear]

Now that the wildcard in under the StLou Cardinals belt, I can talk about pitching matchups for the postseason without jinxing my team!

The unfortunate thing about needing all 162 games is that our rotation is going to be a mess against the Phillies. Our ace Carpenter will have to either pitch 3 days rest on Sunday to get him pitching twice (a potential game 5)-- or just pitch just once in the series -- the home opener in StL in the middle of the week. My bet is on the latter. I think you will see Lohse (with an extra day of rest) pitch Game 1 v Halliday in Philly, then see Edwin Jackson go on Sunday. I think they will save Garcia for StL because he is much better pitcher at home, but he could potentially pitch Sunday as well.

Westbrook is the odd man out.


Potential Matchups
Lohse v Halliday
Jackson v Lee
Carpenter v Hamels
Garcia v TBD
TBD v Halliday or Lee

[sagegrouse]

As for the Yankees blowing the big lead, it's simple -- it didn't matter to them (or maybe they just wanted to stick it to the Red Sox).

They used eight pitchers in the first seven innings to build the 7-0 lead. When Logan and Ayala get in trouble in the eighth, they don't bring in Rivera, Robertson or even Soriano. They led Wade try to close it out. When he fails, they throw in the towell, bringing in Scott Proctor. Anybody who has followed the Yankees knows that Proctor is the real white flag.

I would contrast the expectations for the players and the managers.

I would expect each player to try his hardest at every at bat and on every play. Baseball is hard, and these are professionals.

Joe Girardi needs to maximize his chances of winning the World Series (or the first playoff series) without embarrassing his club (most important) or MLB. He was never gonna pitch Mariano Riviera last night, after he had worked the previous night, or his set-up man Robertson. Plus, he has a 40-man roster to use. I am sure his decision to use a new pitcher every inning (at least it seemed like that) is borderline embarrassing.

So, Girardi is guilty of treating last night's game with nonchalance; but it looked to me like the players were trying hard. FWIW the criticism of the commentariat has been directed at the Sawks and the Braves.

sagegrouse

[Duvall]

I have to think that Francona is gone. I've liked him as a manager and he's done a great job of managing a lot of personalities but most of those personalities have moved on. Could be that the current players need something else.

If you guys need to fire Tito, I can think of a franchise that could give him a good home.

[Doug.I.Am]

Absolutely amazing. As a Yankees fan, I loved seeing Papelbon blow the save. LET'S GO YANKEES!!

You and me both, brother. The next time I have to sit and wait, and wait, and wait while Paps takes a nice big deep breath, slowly look up for the sign with that holier than thou evilish look, nod, come set and FINALLY throw the damn ball will be WAY TOO soon. Twins closer Joe Nathan was asked if there was anyone he really disliked in the majors. Guess who that was? Papelbon. He commented something to the affect that with all the gyrations and fist pumping, he'll get what's coming to him. The baseball Gods don't appreciate that sort of behavior. He was right. Pretend you've actually struck someone out to end a game before. Yeesh.

[Jim3k]

You and me both, brother. The next time I have to sit and wait, and wait, and wait while Paps takes a nice big deep breath, slowly look up for the sign with that holier than thou evilish look, nod, come set and FINALLY throw the damn ball will be WAY TOO soon.

I'm disappointed that no one sees Pap as Snoopy's vulture. To me it is so true and he is so...deserving of a good pic.


2070

[ncexnyc]

The media is going a bit over the top with it's talk about the Rays and their comeback win. Let's be honest, yes it was a nice comeback and it's even nicer because it got them a playoff spot, but they faced Moe, Larry, and Curly on the mound the last few innings and a quick look at the Yankees positional players the last few innings would have you believe they had their Triple A affiliate on the field.

[Olympic Fan]

I would contrast the expectations for the players and the managers.

I would expect each player to try his hardest at every at bat and on every play. Baseball is hard, and these are professionals.

Joe Girardi needs to maximize his chances of winning the World Series (or the first playoff series) without embarrassing his club (most important) or MLB. He was never gonna pitch Mariano Riviera last night, after he had worked the previous night, or his set-up man Robertson. Plus, he has a 40-man roster to use. I am sure his decision to use a new pitcher every inning (at least it seemed like that) is borderline embarrassing.

So, Girardi is guilty of treating last night's game with nonchalance; but it looked to me like the players were trying hard. FWIW the criticism of the commentariat has been directed at the Sawks and the Braves.

sagegrouse

Don't get me wrong -- I'm not blaming Girardi for what he did, jjust trying to put the Rays' comeback into context. I agree with you that his first priority was to have the Yankees ready for the playoffs and the best way to do that was to protect his key pitchers. Burnett and Hughes, two starters who will not start in postseason, each got a brief stint to give them a bit of a taste of relieving, but nobody in his playoff rotation -- either starter or reliever -- got off the bench.

On the other hand, he did start pretty close to his A lineup (he subbed for some as the game stretched out) and the Yankees did play well enough to build a 7-0 lead. The fact that they played 12 innings before losing is fair evidence that they didn't throw the game (despite my crack about Proctor -- Yankee fans feel about him the way Brave fans have come to feel about Lowe).

A couple of neat facts I learned while watching the coverage today:

-- The Red Sox established a new record for the worst collapse ever in September, blowing a 9-game lead in the month.
-- The Braves tied the 1964 Phillies for the SECOND WORST September collapse ever -- each blowing an 8 1/2 game lead in the month.

Amazing.

[theAlaskanBear]

Don't get me wrong -- I'm not blaming Girardi for what he did, jjust trying to put the Rays' comeback into context. I agree with you that his first priority was to have the Yankees ready for the playoffs and the best way to do that was to protect his key pitchers. Burnett and Hughes, two starters who will not start in postseason, each got a brief stint to give them a bit of a taste of relieving, but nobody in his playoff rotation -- either starter or reliever -- got off the bench.

On the other hand, he did start pretty close to his A lineup (he subbed for some as the game stretched out) and the Yankees did play well enough to build a 7-0 lead. The fact that they played 12 innings before losing is fair evidence that they didn't throw the game (despite my crack about Proctor -- Yankee fans feel about him the way Brave fans have come to feel about Lowe).

A couple of neat facts I learned while watching the coverage today:

-- The Red Sox established a new record for the worst collapse ever in September, blowing a 9-game lead in the month.
-- The Braves tied the 1964 Phillies for the SECOND WORST September collapse ever -- each blowing an 8 1/2 game lead in the month.

Amazing.

And it was those pesky StL Cardinals in the 1964. In fact, the Cardinals hold 3 of the top 6 all time comebacks now when you factor in the 1934 Gashouse Gang.

[jimsumner]

And it was those pesky StL Cardinals in the 1964. In fact, the Cardinals hold 3 of the top 6 all time comebacks now when you factor in the 1934 Gashouse Gang.

But at least the Yankees got Johnny Keane out of it. :)

[throatybeard]

And it was those pesky StL Cardinals in the 1964. In fact, the Cardinals hold 3 of the top 6 all time comebacks now when you factor in the 1934 Gashouse Gang.

The guys on 101 we having their 4:00 trivia face-off with the listener, and the intern didn't do the research completely, and then there was a dispute.

How far out were the 1964 Cardinals? Bob Ramsey insisted that the 1978 NYY were further out (fourteen games on 21 July) than the 1964 Cardinals, but they never got around to making clear how many games out the 1964 Cardinals actually were.

It think it was one of those "any any point during the season" versus "after date X" things.

[pfrduke]

The guys on 101 we having their 4:00 trivia face-off with the listener, and the intern didn't do the research completely, and then there was a dispute.

How far out were the 1964 Cardinals? Bob Ramsey insisted that the 1978 NYY were further out (fourteen games on 21 July) than the 1964 Cardinals, but they never got around to making clear how many games out the 1964 Cardinals actually were.

It think it was one of those "any any point during the season" versus "after date X" things.

Courtesy Baseball Reference, the furthest out the '64 Cards were was 11 games, and that happened twice - on July 9 and on August 23. From the latter date, they went 28-11 to finish the season, and ended up in 1st. They actually took a 1 game lead with 3 games to play, so made up an 11 game deficit in 36 games.

ETA: They were also 6.5 out with 13 games to play, and reeled off a 9-1 run to take that 1 game lead, making up a total of 7.5 games in just 10 games played. On the whole, it was a crazy finish in the NL. The Phillies lost 10 in a row at one point in late September in coughing up the lead. And the Reds were also involved in the fun, coming from 8.5 back with 18 games to play to take a 1 game lead with 6 to play (making up 9.5 games in 12 played) on the back of their own 11-1 run, then going 2-4 to finish the season a game out of first.

[sagegrouse]

Great Uncle Fred loved to tell the story of the Braves. In last place on July 4, the Braves won nearly 80 percent of their remaining games to finish 10.5 games ahead of the NY Giants. They proceeded to sweep the favored Philadelphia A's in the World Series, 4-0.

sagegrouse

[theAlaskanBear]

Not sure where it is appropriate to put this -- with two baseball threads up I didnt want to start another. I know there are a couple other StLouis fans here...

What a great game last night. Carpenter on short rest didn't exactly work out, but the Bullpen was near perfect. 6 innings, 1 hit, 1 hbp, 6ks, 0 walks...the Cardinals get a needed split in Philly, and they have that headed to St. Louis. The Cardinal bats were able to get to Cliff Lee, with big ups to the bottom of the order -- Ryan Theriot and Jon Jay especially

Garcia and Jackson will be pitching, and they have much better home ERAs than away, so you are looking at a couple of great pitching matchups...Garcia has a 2.55 home ERA so he should be a good matchup for Hamels. A tossup pitching wise.

Hopefully Pujols' bat will wake up a bit more -- he had a couple of uncharacteristic strike outs last night and just looked bad against Cliff Lee. Also hope Jimmy Rollins cools off. That guy scares me when he is hot.