Vegas '91 Walkout

[Bostondevil]

Wow, I didn't know about the planned Vegas walkout in '91!

So Duke saved the NCAA's posterior? That was quite nice of them and now, suddenly, it all makes sense to me. Duke does get all the calls! The NCAA owes em! ;-)

[Lord Ash]

Just a note... the point was "mute"? Seriously, DBR? Someone should fix that... totally mind-bottling to me that that would slip by.

[Bob Green]

Just a note... the point was "mute"? Seriously, DBR? Someone should fix that... totally mind-bottling to me that that would slip by.

Mute instead of moot is an easy mistake to make and we all know everyone makes mistakes. I probably made one in this simple post.

[ClosetHurleyFan]

Mute instead of moot is an easy mistake to make and we all know everyone makes mistakes. I probably made one in this simple post.


Wow......talk about glass houses......:D

[Turk]

That's just mind-bottling !!

[cspan37421]

I'd love to chime in, but I still have some numbers to twitch before wrapping up for today.

[Lord Ash]

Wow......talk about glass houses......:D

So am I the only one who read Bob's post closely and was feeling like I was possibly dumb for missing something?:)

[MChambers]

I'd love to chime in, but I still have some numbers to twitch before wrapping up for today.
Other errors here dwarved Bob's error!

[wilko]

Wow......talk about glass houses......:D

What does that Billy Joel album have to do with this?....
"you may be wrong or you may be riiight... or it just may be a lunatic yo'r looking for.." Only relevance I can spot.

[Turtleboy]

Mute instead of moot is an easy mistake to make and we all know everyone makes mistakes.It's pretty easy to correct too.

[BD80]

Just a note... the point was "mute"? Seriously, DBR? Someone should fix that... totally mind-bottling to me that that would slip by.

I see this as an esoteric issue, if a tree falls in the woods sans witness, does it make a sound?

Should the aptly named Rebels refuse to play a game they did not qualify to play, did they make a statement?

Nay! They were MUTE!

My choice of mind-bottling solution is a 12 y/o Captain Morgan's Private Stock. However, mute goes out the window. Moot mushrooms.

[yancem]

I always thought it was a moo point. You know a cow's opinion.

[bluepenguin]

So am I the only one who read Bob's post closely and was feeling like I was possibly dumb for missing something?:)I think the mistake he made was saying "everyone makes mistakes." That was a mistatement, as he forget to exclude me from that.

[RPS]

My choice of mind-bottling solution is a 12 y/o Captain Morgan's Private Stock. However, mute goes out the window. Moot mushrooms.

Since when does Captain Morgan's last twelve years?

[jimsumner]

Its know joke that evryone makes mistakes. Except everyone. And thats a complement. Your right to point that out. Its the write of perfect people to point out they're perfection.

[MartyClark]

Wow, I didn't know about the planned Vegas walkout in '91!

So Duke saved the NCAA's posterior? That was quite nice of them and now, suddenly, it all makes sense to me. Duke does get all the calls! The NCAA owes em! ;-)

I guess I'm slow. What are you referring to? Is there a link for this walkout?

[anon]

Its know joke that evryone makes mistakes. Except everyone. And thats a complement. Your right to point that out. Its the write of perfect people to point out they're perfection.

Ahem... accept everyone.

[Newton_14]

I guess I'm slow. What are you referring to? Is there a link for this walkout?

Check the front page article on DBR Home Page from this morning. The article linked in Jason's thread about paying players is where this originated. Supposedly, the Knight Commission was informed prior to one of the NCAA Tourney's of times past, that players of a certain team planned to strike if they made it to the championship game. They would dress and warm up, but would refuse to leave the bench when it was time for the opening tip.

DBR believes the team was UNLV in 1991, and the plan was foiled when Duke upset them in the semi's. This is the first I ever heard of the supposed "strike" but according to the article linked in Jason's thread, it is in fact a true story. The article did not name the year nor the team. UNLV was undefeated on the year heading into that game with Duke, so I have a hard time believing they would have passed up a chance to record a undefeated season and back to back National Title's, but who knows? Maybe it was them and they would have gone through with it...

[Lord Ash]

Just a note... the point was "mute"? Seriously, DBR? Someone should fix that... totally mind-bottling to me that that would slip by.

Oh man. Someone gave me unsigned negative feedback for mind bottling:). I guess they didn't get the reference. Maybe it serves me write. Although to be fair the original point wasn't a homophone thing, so my attempt at humor there didn't quite work:)

As for the original story, that is a crazy concept. Could it possibly be true? Would any group of players really have the guts to do that on such a grand stage? I can imagine someone talking about it, but going through with it is something altogether different.

[brevity]

Finally, at long last, the DBR front page article (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=42282).

I believe it. It's not the same situation, but let's say I was a head coach in college football, increasingly disgusted that there's no college football playoff. It would make more money, create more excitement, have more meaning, and basically bring us forward as a species. But no. How could I protest this continued inaction in a way that would have the greatest impact?

1. Mock the existing system by making the championship game, then boycotting it.
2. Already have a championship -- preferably a recent one that most of my current players have experienced -- so the boycott will not hurt as much.
3. Kind of know that I was ready to leave my position anyway.

Sounds like 1991 UNLV to me. They were Rebels, after all. Also, they were almost barred from that tournament, and (I believe) knew that they could not play in the following year's tournament. Besides, going 35-0* instead of 36-0? Still undefeated.

* Forfeit, or steroids, or something. It was so long ago. I forget.

[devildeac]

Oh man. Someone gave me unsigned negative feedback for mind bottling:). I guess they didn't get the reference. Maybe it serves me write. Although to be fair the original point wasn't a homophone thing, so my attempt at humor there didn't quite work:)

As for the original story, that is a crazy concept. Could it possibly be true? Would any group of players really have the guts to do that on such a grand stage? I can imagine someone talking about it, but going through with it is something altogether different.

Don't you mean "to be fare" and "didn't quiet work?" (jk)

(check your comments now :>)))

Back on topic. That would be nuts to give up that opportunity with a forfeit if that story is true.

[bluepenguin]

I always thought it was a moo point. You know a cow's opinion.I just saw that on Friends last night!!!!

[JasonEvans]

That would be nuts to give up that opportunity with a forfeit if that story is true.

Consider that the planned walkout was not an automatic forfeit. It was the team sitting down on the court and refusing to play until some demands were met. The spectacle of the players sitting on the court on national TV would be a PR nightmare for the NCAA, especially if the players were demanding something small and reasonable (perhaps just a public hearing to discuss enhanced benefits and relaxed rules).

I can't imagine how CBS and the NCAA would reconcile the lost revenues from not having a national title game and I am sure the NCAA would not want to go there. If there were players sitting on the floor, the NCAA would do a LOT to induce them to stand up and start playing. I doubt the NCAA would let it come to a forfeit unless the player demands were too difficult.

-Jason

[bluepenguin]

I can't imagine how CBS and the NCAA would reconcile the lost revenues from not having a national title game and I am sure the NCAA would not want to go there. If there were players sitting on the floor, the NCAA would do a LOT to induce them to stand up and start playing. I doubt the NCAA would let it come to a forfeit unless the player demands were too difficult.

-Jason
Have we not learned anything about the NCAA over the years. I seriously doubt the NCAA would have kow-towed to players refusing to come out for a game, ESPECIALLY UNLV and Tarkanian. I think the NCAA would have dealt swiftly with them and ask them to leave the floor. They probably would have delayed the game and ask the team which lost to UNLV (i.e. Duke) to take their place in the title game. The NCAA's ego is just as big as the athletes'.

[cspan37421]

We played so marvelously against Vegas in 1991, it's not fun to think, if this is true (a big if), that maybe their minds weren't fully on the game and that contributed to our win. In other words, that they might have not given their full effort or attention. For some reason that's more bothersome to me than the idea that, based on the blowout in the prior year title game, they didn't take us seriously.

The question remains: is it true?

[sagegrouse]

We played so marvelously against Vegas in 1991, it's not fun to think, if this is true (a big if), that maybe their minds weren't fully on the game and that contributed to our win. In other words, that they might have not given their full effort or attention. For some reason that's more bothersome to me than the idea that, based on the blowout in the prior year title game, they didn't take us seriously.

The question remains: is it true?

I don't believe a word of it -- not the talk but whether it would actually have happened. UNLV would likely have been kicked out of the NCAA or been given a well-deserved "death penalty;" Tarkanian would never coach another college game; the players would lose their scholarships and not be eligible to play anywhere else; CBS and maybe the NCAA would have sued everyone in sight, aimed primarily at UNLV and Tark. A very ugly picture indeed, and I don't think Tark has or had any appetite for financial suicide.

Seems to me it's just building in an excuse for losing to Duke. Like, "Well, it wouldn't have mattered anyway."

And, this secret is kept for 20 years? Give me a break!!! If it were real -- it would have surfaced in a matter of days.

sagegrouse

[hurleyfor3]

I think the NCAA would have dealt swiftly with them and ask them to leave the floor. They probably would have delayed the game and ask the team which lost to UNLV (i.e. Duke) to take their place in the title game.

Duke would be back in Durham... and Greg Koubek would probably be driving around in a shiny new car already. (OK, at least this happened with players who had a future in the NBA. Saw it with my own eyes.) Anyway, I'm thinking the most likely outcome is UNLV takes the court with Evric Gray, H Waldman, Travis Bice and whomever else wasn't in the tub with the Fixer. And Roy Williams ends up with his first national championship.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Consider that the planned walkout was not an automatic forfeit. It was the team sitting down on the court and refusing to play until some demands were met. The spectacle of the players sitting on the court on national TV would be a PR nightmare for the NCAA, especially if the players were demanding something small and reasonable (perhaps just a public hearing to discuss enhanced benefits and relaxed rules).
-Jason

I would love the see the Heels make the final game and take to the court just like every other game.
Then the bench players could turn their backs to the floor and the starters freeze when the jump ball goes up. Never make an attempt to jump, never make an attempt at the ball and just stand there with arms folded across their chests while the other team dunks it unobstructed.

Roy would go nuts, but he'd get over it.

Spot the other team 2 points, then play ball and make the statement that the NCAA must address players issues in the post game press conferences.

It could be risky in the world of PR, but like Jason is saying, I think the whole issue would blow up on the NCAA, and not on the players when Joe Average sports fan sees these issues for what they are and is forced to focus on it...reward rarely comes without risk.

[The Gordog]

Just a note... the point was "mute"? Seriously, DBR? Someone should fix that... totally mind-bottling to me that that would slip by.


Wow......talk about glass houses......:D


So am I the only one who read Bob's post closely and was feeling like I was possibly dumb for missing something?:)


Other errors here dwarved Bob's error!

:D

You guys crank me up!

[MChambers]

We played so marvelously against Vegas in 1991, it's not fun to think, if this is true (a big if), that maybe their minds weren't fully on the game and that contributed to our win. In other words, that they might have not given their full effort or attention. For some reason that's more bothersome to me than the idea that, based on the blowout in the prior year title game, they didn't take us seriously.

The question remains: is it true?

It could have had the opposite effect: their minds were even more focused, because they wanted to get to the final, to make their protest statement. Duke was just better. (And, by the way, Grant Hill had a far better pro career than anyone on Vegas, and Laettner had a better career than Augmon or Anthony, leading me to conclude that Duke was more talented, but younger.) That's the way I prefer to see it.

[aro24]

I just saw that on Friends last night!!!!

Thank you Joey Tribiani.....you guys beat me to it! hahahaha
Ever since seeing that episode, I have used this line.
It's a moo point. It's like a cow's opinion. It doesn't matter.....its Moo.
They don't make quality TV like Friends anymore....thanks to Nick at Night and TBS for continuing to air them daily.

ARo24

[TheRose77]

Rather than using Deadspin as a source, shouldn't you have cited The Atlantic on the home page? That was where the original reporting came from. I just read the article this afternoon in print form. It's a great overview of the history of the NCAA and its desperate attempts throughout the years to keep Toto from pulling back the curtain and exposing the Wizard's impotence. And it sounds like William Friday, at 91, hasn't lost a step.

[BD80]

I would love the see the Heels make the final game and take to the court just like every other game.
Then the bench players could turn their backs to the floor and the starters freeze when the jump ball goes up. Never make an attempt to jump, never make an attempt at the ball and just stand there with arms folded across their chests while the other team dunks it unobstructed.

Roy would go nuts, but he'd get over it.

Spot the other team 2 points, then play ball and make the statement that the NCAA must address players issues in the post game press conferences.

It could be risky in the world of PR, but like Jason is saying, I think the whole issue would blow up on the NCAA, and not on the players when Joe Average sports fan sees these issues for what they are and is forced to focus on it...reward rarely comes without risk.

Didn't the heels actually do something like that in the 70's? They refused to shoot any shots that could hit the rim for an entire half? Maybe they were protesting "stall ball," because IIRC, the game was the direct trigger for the shot-clock. Those socially conscious SOBs were ahead of their time with that protest!

[77devil]

Didn't the heels actually do something like that in the 70's? They refused to shoot any shots that could hit the rim for an entire half? Maybe they were protesting "stall ball," because IIRC, the game was the direct trigger for the shot-clock. Those socially conscious SOBs were ahead of their time with that protest!

Maybe, but it seems unlikely they would protest something their coach invented in addition to the zone defense, full court press, motion offense, high ball screen, low post offense, and just about every other innovation in basketball? There must have been some other reason to protest.

[Newton_14]

Maybe, but it seems unlikely they would protest something their coach invented in addition to the zone defense, full court press, motion offense, high ball screen, low post offense, and just about every other innovation in basketball? There must have been some other reason to protest.

You left out, huddling up before foul shots, thanking a player for an assist, tipping in a missed shot, the Triangle Offense, the Amoeba Zone (Sorry Tark, surely Dean showed that to you), taking a charge, crossover dribble, behind the back dribble, between the leg dribble, and last but not least, the Hansflop highstepping, arm flailing dash across the court after making winning shot in important game. :eek:

[miramar]

There was a recent documentary on the Running Rebels, I think on ESPN, and IIRC Tark said something about telling the team that they were going to lose in the Final Four because "there" minds weren't on the game. Maybe they were more concerned about beating the NCAA than Duke.

If so, then that's even more proof that everything the Fab Five did had already been done by UNLV. Jalen Rose indicated on his documentary that the Fab Five started wearing plain blue tee shirts during player introductions because they didn't want to give Nike free advertising, but that seems rather quaint compared to a potential sit down strike.