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sagegrouse
09-06-2011, 11:42 PM
Here is a table comparing the three more academically oriented schools by the state and region of players on their rosters. My first confession is that one should understand the data before publishing. This is straightforward and comes from authoritative school sources, but why, oh why,does Duke list 127 players on its roster and Stanford 110, when the scholarship limits are 82? Notre Dame clocks in at a more understandable 92.



ND Duke Stanford

NEng 3 4 1
CT 3 1
MA 3 1

MAtl 13 13 7
DE 1
MD 2 4 2
NJ 6 3 2
NY 1 3 1
PA 3 3 2

South 26 81 19
AL 3 2
AR 1
FL 9 15 4
GA 3 13 7
KY 3
LA 2
MS 1
NC 5 30 1
SC 2 7 1
TN 1 8
VA 3 3 2

MWest 30 13 13
IA 2
IL 8 1 1
IN 7 2
KN 1
MI 3 2 1
MN 1 4
MO 1
NE 1
OH 10 7 1
WI 2 1
WV

Swest 4 5 10
TX 4 5 10

West 16 7 60
AZ 2 9
CA 10 5 41
CO 1 4
HI 3 1
NM 1
NV 1
OR 1 1
WA 3

Non-US 4

Total 92 127 110


At one time it was said that Duke and ND had the most geographically diverse student bodies in the country. Well, it doesn't show up on the Duke football rosters. Nearly two-thirds of the Blue Devils are from southern states; the rest, however, are widely distributed across the country.

Stanford has the majority 55% of its roster from the western states. The remainder is broadly distributed, but the next highest region is the south (17%). Add in the 9% from Texas and there is a sizable contingent of southerners on the Cardinal. Who knew?

For ND, one-third of the Golden Domers are from Midwestern states, chiefly IL, IN and OH. But surprisingly, nearly as many (28%) are from the South. The rest are widely distributed.

Without giving a lot of thought to Duke recruiting geographically, I had always thought we did well in NY-PA-NJ where there was a large population but relatively few football teams. Not today -- it's only about 10% of our players. And, ND and Stanford don't take many players there either. Hmmmm.....

Well, this is food for thought which I haven't yet digested. ;) What happened to Duke recruiting in the Northeast and Midwest? It is clearly no longer either a strength or a focus. And it appears that now, more than ever, that football is a southern game.

sagegrouse

formerdukeathlete
09-07-2011, 08:52 AM
Here is a table comparing the three more academically oriented schools by the state and region of players on their rosters. My first confession is that one should understand the data before publishing. This is straightforward and comes from authoritative school sources, but why, oh why,does Duke list 127 players on its roster and Stanford 110, when the scholarship limits are 82? Notre Dame clocks in at a more understandable 92.



ND Duke Stanford

NEng 3 4 1
CT 3 1
MA 3 1

MAtl 13 13 7
DE 1
MD 2 4 2
NJ 6 3 2
NY 1 3 1
PA 3 3 2

South 26 81 19
AL 3 2
AR 1
FL 9 15 4
GA 3 13 7
KY 3
LA 2
MS 1
NC 5 30 1
SC 2 7 1
TN 1 8
VA 3 3 2

MWest 30 13 13
IA 2
IL 8 1 1
IN 7 2
KN 1
MI 3 2 1
MN 1 4
MO 1
NE 1
OH 10 7 1
WI 2 1
WV

Swest 4 5 10
TX 4 5 10

West 16 7 60
AZ 2 9
CA 10 5 41
CO 1 4
HI 3 1
NM 1
NV 1
OR 1 1
WA 3

Non-US 4

Total 92 127 110


At one time it was said that Duke and ND had the most geographically diverse student bodies in the country. Well, it doesn't show up on the Duke football rosters. Nearly two-thirds of the Blue Devils are from southern states; the rest, however, are widely distributed across the country.

Stanford has the majority 55% of its roster from the western states. The remainder is broadly distributed, but the next highest region is the south (17%). Add in the 9% from Texas and there is a sizable contingent of southerners on the Cardinal. Who knew?

For ND, one-third of the Golden Domers are from Midwestern states, chiefly IL, IN and OH. But surprisingly, nearly as many (28%) are from the South. The rest are widely distributed.

Without giving a lot of thought to Duke recruiting geographically, I had always thought we did well in NY-PA-NJ where there was a large population but relatively few football teams. Not today -- it's only about 10% of our players. And, ND and Stanford don't take many players there either. Hmmmm.....

Well, this is food for thought which I haven't yet digested. ;) What happened to Duke recruiting in the Northeast and Midwest? It is clearly no longer either a strength or a focus. And it appears that now, more than ever, that football is a southern game.

sagegrouse

Sage, That roster info from goduke may be a little off. I noticed at one point guys who had graduated who were still on the 11 roster. We are permited 105 guys, a total of 85 may be on scholarship. In the past I think Roof was docked a scholarship when he brought in a stretch below our cutoffs, which may explain why we may have had self imposed limits of less than 85. This is no longer the case with Cut. If we have less than 85 guys, it may just be due to the ebbs and flows. Pennsylvania, the Midwest have been flat in population growth, while the Southeast has grown. This explains part of it. The other part is we have not offered a lot of guys in PA, the Northeast, Midwest. I do see some more offers going out this year in these areas than in the past. What is it now, California sends us the most students of any state? The Northeast still sends us a lot of students. We have students from every state. And, our recruiting would best be served if we made sure we were in every state as well.

sagegrouse
09-07-2011, 09:23 AM
Sage, That roster info from goduke may be a little off. I noticed at one point guys who had graduated who were still on the 11 roster. We are permited 105 guys, a total of 85 may be on scholarship. In the past I think Roof was docked a scholarship when he brought in a stretch below our cutoffs, which may explain why we may have had self imposed limits of less than 85. This is no longer the case with Cut. If we have less than 85 guys, it may just be due to the ebbs and flows. Pennsylvania, the Midwest have been flat in population growth, while the Southeast has grown. This explains part of it. The other part is we have not offered a lot of guys in PA, the Northeast, Midwest. I do see some more offers going out this year in these areas than in the past. What is it now, California sends us the most students of any state? The Northeast still sends us a lot of students. We have students from every state. And, our recruiting would best be served if we made sure we were in every state as well.

Thanks for your explanation, FDA. Yeah -- I just took the football roster from GoDuke, imported it to Excel and sorted it. The high totals for Duke and Stanford seemed strange to me.

But perhaps the "distribution" is insightful, even if the absolute numbers are off. Here is the regional distribution of the total combined rosters of Duke, Stanford, and Notre Dame:



Regional Breakout Combined
South 38.3%
West 25.2%
MidWest 17.0%
N-East 12.4%
S-West 5.8%
Non-US 1.2%



Football is a southern sport? Seems that way. Two-thirds of Duke's roster plus being the favored region for ND and Stanford outside their home regions.

I think Duke is missing something by not going all out in PA, NJ and NY. I mean, the sobriquet, "University of New Jersey" has to be good for something. Well, maybe next year.

sagegrouse
Notes:

Regional breakouts are as follows --
Northeast - Maryland plus states to the north and east
Midwest - Ohio through the Great Plains
South - Virginia through Louisiana, including KY and AR (SEC)
Southwest - Texas plus Oklahoma (but no players from OK). You can put Texas wherever you want -- sorta like the Longhorns
West - Colorado through Alaska and Hawaii

(I didn't have to decide where to put WVa -- Whew! The pressure was overwhelming -- because there were no players from there.)

m g
09-07-2011, 09:28 AM
What is it now, California sends us the most students of any state?

Uh... try North Carolina? Sends more than California plus the other ten westernmost states combined...

Bluedog
09-07-2011, 10:21 AM
What is it now, California sends us the most students of any state?


Uh... try North Carolina? Sends more than California plus the other ten westernmost states combined...

Incorrect. FDA is right. California is now the #1 represented state at Duke for the latest class:

http://dukechronicle.com/article/admissions-yield-steady-application-numbers-skyrocket


for the first time, California is the most represented state.

For the past couple years, California had the most applicants to Duke, but not the most people who ended up attending. However, this year, California has both the most applicants and the most students who ended up matriculating. I would think that Duke is particularly appealing as a backup/alternative to Stanford due to it being basically the best weather elite school on the east coast. Some Californians don't want to deal with the cold at Ivy League schools.

formerdukeathlete
09-07-2011, 11:08 AM
Incorrect. FDA is right. California is now the #1 represented state at Duke for the latest class:

http://dukechronicle.com/article/admissions-yield-steady-application-numbers-skyrocket



For the past couple years, California had the most applicants to Duke, but not the most people who ended up attending. However, this year, California has both the most applicants and the most students who ended up matriculating. I would think that Duke is particularly appealing as a backup/alternative to Stanford due to it being basically the best weather elite school on the east coast. Some Californians don't want to deal with the cold at Ivy League schools.

I think that is right. Californians (where I have lived, still travel to) seem to think of Duke as an Ivy school, not so much that same thing about Vandy, UVa, Rice. The top academic universities in CA play D1 sports, Stanford, Cal, UCLA, maybe add USC to the mix. Duke offers that; of course, Ivies do not. When Ben Bennett came to Duke he was I think ranked the No. 2 QB prospect in the country. Why Duke? How did we get on that map? Maybe we have Richard Nixon to thank in part. Nixon was offered a scholarship to Harvard out of high school, but his family could not afford the travel, dealing with the ill health of one of his siblings. Went to Whittier, straight As, but not on the Ivy League law school radar. Duke offered a scholarship. Rest is history, for good and bad.

I think a valid complement to our recruiting strategy (which with Cut is very intertwined with who attends our summer camps) would be to make sure we screen as best we can for better students among higher 3 star or better propects, look at film, and make sure we offer them aggressively, whereever they live. These types of kids are a bit more inclined to listen to what we have to offer. Recruits list academic data on recruting sites, and our competition does part of the work for us. Look at whether the kids have Stanford, Northwestern, Rice, etc. offers. If or when we have a new coach, there is a bit to say that it might be helpful that they were from California or the Midwest/Northeast regions. I think it is helpful to bear in mind that the better student hurdle is not that difficult to get over. There actually are a large number of these kids nationally. Cut did very little academic screening initially. He is doing more this year, partly because several of his verbal commits in the 2011 class were declined by admissions. They were not close in the first place. This is partly my concern over his recruiting.